0:00

Welcome to Ghost of a

0:02

Podcast. I'm your host, Jessica

0:04

Linciado. I'm an astrologer, psychic

0:06

medium, and animal communicator. And

0:08

I'm going to give you

0:10

your weekly horoscope and no

0:12

bullshit mystical advice for living your

0:15

very best life. Octavia, welcome to

0:17

the podcast. What would you like to

0:19

read about? My question, I haven't

0:21

written down. I'm going to just

0:23

go ahead and read it. My question

0:25

is. As I'm reaching the end of

0:28

my sad return, I'm beginning to

0:30

recognize my patterns of self-sabotage when

0:32

it comes to executing my goals,

0:35

both relationally and career

0:37

rise. I often feel unclear about

0:39

or blocked from making better choices

0:42

and often face difficult circumstances when

0:44

I finally feel motivated to do

0:46

so. How can I release my

0:48

baggage and allow myself to shine?

0:51

Okay. So many things to say about

0:53

this. So first we're going to share

0:55

that you were born September 12th 1995

0:57

in a city in America at 830

1:00

a.m. That is true. Okay great. Thank

1:02

you. So there's a lot of

1:04

things to say. I actually want

1:06

to start with your Saturday return.

1:08

Okay. In your birth chart you've got

1:10

Saturn at 21 degrees and 30

1:13

minutes of Pisces and your Saturn

1:15

return lasted less than a month.

1:17

February 24th through March 20th. That

1:20

was the whole Saturn return. And

1:22

what I want to say before

1:24

we dive into the specifics of

1:26

your question is the Saturn return

1:29

is a transit, but it's also

1:31

like this massive, the word evolution

1:33

is wrong, but I'm going to

1:35

use it anyways because my brain

1:37

isn't finding a different one. But

1:39

like it's an evolutionary process of

1:42

coming into the adult body and

1:44

coming to a state of maturization.

1:46

And for some people, sometimes something

1:48

major happens during the sudden return.

1:50

And for some people, sometimes it's

1:52

just like this period. And because

1:55

of the way that your chart

1:57

is written, you've got Saturn in

1:59

the sixth. and it's opposite

2:01

your son and your Venus.

2:03

You are Saturnian enough that

2:05

this is like, I'm sure

2:07

those, those, you know, several weeks

2:10

were important, but this is

2:12

more about like the big

2:14

picture of coming into a

2:16

new level of accountability and

2:18

responsibility to your own damn

2:20

self and your body. That

2:22

very much resonates. So Saturn

2:24

in the sixth house, I

2:26

mean there's no like chill

2:28

place for Saturn, obviously, like

2:30

there's no easy place, but

2:32

Saturn in the sixth house,

2:34

when we have a Saturn

2:36

return, it often does confront

2:38

the self with your relationship either to

2:40

work or to health. And often there's

2:42

a connection, like you may be working

2:44

in such a way that leads to

2:47

burnout or you may be like disassociating

2:49

in such a way that you're not

2:51

like tracking what's going on in your

2:53

health or something like that. notice anything

2:55

in that regard, like with your

2:57

body or mental health, and you

2:59

don't have to have, but just

3:02

curious. For sure, with both, I

3:04

found out I had a six-month

3:06

long sinus infection, maybe even a

3:08

year long, like around this period

3:10

of time, and I also started going

3:12

to the gym. more around this time.

3:14

I started being like more physically active

3:17

and sort of like leaning more into

3:19

my health and like trying to take

3:21

better care of myself. But overall like

3:24

my whole life I've always had kind

3:26

of like what I describe as body

3:28

horror experiences since I was a little

3:30

kid. I had really severe scoliosis by

3:33

the time I was like 13

3:35

or 14 and got a full spinal

3:37

surgery by the time I was

3:39

14. Oh no, I'm so sorry, that's

3:41

intense. I always had an interesting relationship

3:44

to my body. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. So

3:46

Saturn is of course your bones,

3:48

right? It's the shit that holds you

3:51

up. So that's very such a

3:53

turning of you. And the thing

3:55

about the Saturn return that's related

3:57

to let's say going to the

3:59

gym. is that we set patterns

4:01

during Saturn transits, and the Saturn

4:03

return is kind of like the

4:05

Apex Saturn transit, right? And so

4:07

setting the intention of I'm going

4:09

to actively intentionally engage with my

4:12

body, that's the green light go,

4:14

like that's the thing. So for

4:16

you right now, it's the gym,

4:18

and you know, maybe next month

4:20

it'll be walking in nature, it

4:22

doesn't have to be one thing,

4:24

but that is a really great

4:26

thing. And then the other thing,

4:28

my Saturn and Picy's friend. is

4:30

you said you had a six

4:33

month long sinus infection. So what

4:35

I am inferring from the way

4:37

you said that is you were

4:39

uncomfortable, you were not feeling well,

4:41

but you didn't get a diagnosis

4:43

and you didn't get treatment for

4:45

six whole months. I actually didn't

4:47

even really notice, which is crazy.

4:49

I just had like pretty bad

4:51

symptoms, like outward symptoms, but I

4:53

was like, oh, this is just

4:56

something. I was more focused on

4:58

the symptom rather than I was

5:00

on the huge cause of the

5:02

thing. So you did notice that

5:04

something was wrong? Yes, I did

5:06

notice, but I didn't really know

5:08

the depth of how wrong I

5:10

was. And did you not know

5:12

the depth because you didn't ask

5:14

for help? Yes. Okay. That's your

5:17

Saturn return. I want you to

5:19

really hear that. Because if you

5:21

don't, then the next time Saturn

5:23

aspects Saturn in your mid-30s, you

5:25

are going to be confronted with

5:27

this lesson again. And then again

5:29

with your Saturn opposition, you don't

5:31

want to keep on being confronted

5:33

with the lesson of like, yeah,

5:35

it was super sick, but it

5:37

wasn't that relevant. So I didn't

5:40

check it out. No, no. Like

5:42

if you feel, if something in

5:44

your body feels like in a

5:46

state of un wellness. Your duty

5:48

to yourself with Saturn in the

5:50

sixth house is to validate that

5:52

experience and then investigate, which I'm

5:54

guessing if you were hanging out

5:56

with me for six months and

5:58

for six months, I was like,

6:01

oh, I'm in pain. Oh, I've

6:03

got these symptoms. You'd be like,

6:05

I love you. Please fucking go

6:07

to a doc. or an herbalist,

6:09

something? So the thing about this

6:11

is I thought that the symptoms

6:13

I was having were because I

6:15

just was smoking again. Like I

6:17

had picked up a bad habit

6:19

because I was going through a

6:21

really crazy experience. Cigarettes? Or weed?

6:24

Cigarettes. Cigarettes? Well, cigarettes and weed.

6:26

You'd picked them both up at

6:28

the same. Okay, so you had

6:30

already been smoking weed. Yes. You

6:32

added cigarettes to the max. Okay.

6:34

And they got really bad. So

6:36

I thought stopping would help, but.

6:38

When did you stop? In mid-December?

6:40

Okay. January. So let me just,

6:42

this is really important because I'm

6:45

from. the province of Quebec in

6:47

Canada and there's something I don't

6:49

know if it's in all of

6:51

Canada but it's called a sin

6:53

tax like sin like against like

6:55

in the Bible yeah and they

6:57

apply those sin taxes to alcohol

6:59

and tobacco so it's like you're

7:01

you're paying extra taxes for the

7:03

sin of drinking and smoking right

7:06

so such a stupid con whatever

7:08

we can forgetting the moralistic cost

7:10

the reason why I'm bringing it

7:12

up is because what you just

7:14

told me is that you, this

7:16

is the thing about fucking Saturn,

7:18

right? You're the cop in your

7:20

own head. You created a syntax.

7:22

Okay, so I did something bad.

7:24

I started smoking again. And I'm

7:26

not going to take care of

7:29

myself. I'm not going to investigate

7:31

because the consequence of me sinning

7:33

against my body is this fucking

7:35

terrible set of circumstances. And okay,

7:37

do you see why I brought

7:39

up the syntax? Yeah, I do

7:41

see. Yes. So having Saturn in

7:43

the sixth house, especially Saturn in

7:45

Pisces, will give unfortunately like that,

7:47

that like not your internal structure,

7:50

because the internal structure part of

7:52

you is healthy. I'm talking about

7:54

the cop in your head, like

7:56

the like mean teacher, mean patrilineal

7:58

figure in your head, the inclination

8:00

towards a sin tax mentality. Yeah.

8:02

And so my hope is that

8:04

now that I've given you the

8:06

kind of like visual that you'll

8:08

be able to track it more

8:10

effectively. Yeah. I also want to

8:13

say, yeah, don't fucking smoke. You've

8:15

got Saturn in Pisces, you've got

8:17

your son and Venus in the

8:19

12,000, it gives your lungs, like

8:21

you just don't do well with

8:23

smoking. No, you don't. No, you

8:25

don't. So even if you're going

8:27

to be consuming weed, or any

8:29

kind of like THC products, like

8:31

I would, I don't know if

8:34

you like, like, like eating as

8:36

much, have been trying to do

8:38

that more. The problem is the

8:40

buzz of eating is more of

8:42

a body buzz and you prefer,

8:44

you'd like a little more control,

8:46

eh, than eating gives you. And

8:48

so if you're going to smoke,

8:50

I would simply say, know that

8:52

it's really bad for you. Okay.

8:54

Yeah. And so that doesn't mean

8:57

that you start imposing a syntax

8:59

on yourself. It simply means that

9:01

you are mindful that if you're

9:03

going through an especially stressful time,

9:05

if there are other environmental factors

9:07

that are fucking with the air

9:09

quality, hello climate crisis, whatever else,

9:11

like if you're just like, I've

9:13

been around five people who are

9:15

coughing, then pause with the smoking

9:18

and maybe lean on eating or

9:20

just take a break. Yeah, I

9:22

honestly haven't been smoking as much

9:24

over the past few months, mostly

9:26

because I ran out, but also

9:28

because I just haven't just happened.

9:30

I haven't like chosen to like

9:32

procure Maria. So did you quit

9:34

smoking everything at once? I stopped

9:36

smoking cigarettes pretty hardcore and then

9:39

I sort of slowly tapered off

9:41

of the weed. Okay. I do

9:43

feel better for it honestly. Yeah.

9:45

Just mentally I feel a lot

9:47

more grounded and more weed was

9:49

once really good for you. It's

9:51

not very good for you anymore.

9:53

You must have noticed. Yes, I

9:55

did note it. It's a bummer

9:57

because in your teens and your

9:59

20s it probably actually like was

10:02

a great tool for you to

10:04

like kind of like loosen up

10:06

that Saturnian tightness that can be

10:08

in your nature but then you

10:10

got older and it actually stopped

10:12

working the way it once did

10:14

it's not your best friends anymore

10:16

you can be like frenemies with

10:18

weed but I don't think it's

10:20

like a super good relationship anymore

10:23

okay for whatever that's worth now

10:25

it's now you're welcome so what

10:27

happens with your Saturn return now

10:29

that your Saturn return is over

10:31

officially right you integrate You either

10:33

learn the lessons, you either integrate

10:35

those lessons by simply being accountable

10:37

to yourself and the world that

10:39

you participate in, or you don't.

10:41

And then your Christ year shall

10:43

cometh, and as it cometh, which

10:46

of course is your 33 year

10:48

on this planet, so the age

10:50

of 33, that is a year

10:52

of consequences. So you start all

10:54

of a sudden at the age

10:56

of 33, which is number of

10:58

years from your 29 or 30

11:00

now. 29. Yeah, so you've got

11:02

some years on this, right? Which

11:04

means you don't have to obsess

11:07

and get stupor in your head

11:09

about it. You just want to

11:11

stay aligned with the values on

11:13

the lessons, rather, of your Saturn

11:15

return. At 33, what happens is

11:17

all of a sudden, all the

11:19

shit that was like activated in

11:21

your Saturn return gets more salient,

11:23

more present for you, and whatever

11:25

it is you didn't deal with,

11:27

it becomes a pain in your

11:30

ass. So you learn that maybe

11:32

smoking isn't great for you. Remember

11:34

the lesson. You learned that you

11:36

have a nature where you impose

11:38

a syntax on yourself and you're

11:40

like, well, I feel shitty because

11:42

I was shitty. Oh, well, that's

11:44

life. Don't do that. Or you'll

11:46

have to deal with the consequences

11:48

at 33. You see where I'm

11:51

going with this, right? Yeah. So

11:53

I wanted to just make sure

11:55

to give you this kind of

11:57

like high level view of your

11:59

Saturn return stuff before we shift

12:01

away from that part of the

12:03

conversation on fire. Oh, okay. Yeah.

12:05

Cool. Saturn is also... opposite your

12:07

Venus. Now this is a really

12:09

important transit. It was, oh it's

12:11

active right now. It was active

12:14

March 28th through April 23rd and

12:16

we're recording this in April, early

12:18

April. And then it'll come back

12:20

October 12th of 2025 through January

12:22

13th. Yeah. Is that your birthday?

12:24

No, it's my grandmother's birthday. It's

12:26

not a great birthday present. I

12:28

apologize on behalf of the years.

12:30

Okay. Yeah. And so it'll be

12:32

October 12th of 25 through January

12:35

13th of 26th. Saturn opposite Venus,

12:37

it is directly related to Saturn

12:39

conjunction to Venus, which happened for

12:41

you 14 years ago. So 15

12:43

years old? Yeah. Anything in particular

12:45

going on at 15 in your

12:47

relationships? I got a spinal surgery

12:49

and couldn't be in school for

12:51

like the first. Okay, so you

12:53

were like really isolated. Yeah. And

12:56

did you have friends who were

12:58

the kind of friends who would

13:00

like come around when you were

13:02

in? I, you know, didn't have

13:04

a lot of friends and I

13:06

lived sort of far away from

13:08

my school. So I didn't really,

13:10

I maybe had like one friend

13:12

come around, but yeah, I wouldn't

13:14

even really call this person like

13:16

exactly a friend. Right. I mean,

13:19

most 15 year olds are not

13:21

fantastic at showing up for really

13:23

intense medical procedures and stuff like

13:25

that. Like it's, yeah. So this

13:27

is the high water mark of

13:29

a cycle that began for you

13:31

then. So your Venus and Virgo

13:33

in the 12th House was being

13:35

pummeled by Saturn. And this transit

13:37

is active as we speak, which

13:40

is part of why you wanted

13:42

to talk about relationship stuff, right?

13:44

Because Saturn opposite Venus, it kicks

13:46

up patterns around your relationships and

13:48

how you participate and what you

13:50

seem to be kind of attracting,

13:52

right? And With Venus in the

13:54

12th House, you can find yourself

13:56

in situations where you're kind of

13:58

constantly taking care of other people,

14:00

you don't feel seen, and your

14:03

relationships. You know, some people with

14:05

this placement are like in relationships

14:07

that are on the DL or

14:09

just like not like more situations

14:11

What I saw the face? What's

14:13

that mean? Yeah, that's that feels

14:15

accurate slash I think what feels

14:17

more accurate is probably like the

14:19

often being in a relationship with

14:21

emotionally unavailable people Seems to be

14:24

like the large thing. Yeah, is

14:26

that what's happening currently Not currently,

14:28

currently I'm single, I've been single

14:30

for three months, but that was

14:32

like the pattern for like the

14:34

past, last year I was like

14:36

in three consecutive relationships and that

14:38

was sort of the pattern of

14:40

all of them. So Saturn opposite

14:42

Venus will bring up your patterns

14:44

in such a way that most

14:47

people either say, oh no. This

14:49

is terrible. This always happens to

14:51

me. Why must this happen to

14:53

me? Why is life so hard?

14:55

And then we slip into a

14:57

depressiveness, right? Or, of course there's

14:59

other options, but here are the

15:01

big most common too. Or it's,

15:03

oh shit, I need to work

15:05

on this, I need to make

15:08

changes in myself, I need to

15:10

figure out what I'm getting out

15:12

of this pattern. Definitely feeling more

15:14

of the second part these days.

15:16

Yeah. Good, on, yeah. Okay, great.

15:18

That's a really good sign because

15:20

your Saturn opposition to Venus is

15:22

connected to your Saturn return, right?

15:24

Because they're like back-to-back transit. And

15:26

I want to encourage you to

15:28

stick with that. A big part

15:31

of this transit for you does

15:33

have to do with your relationship

15:35

to your body and your own

15:37

ability to trust your body and

15:39

resource your body. It also has

15:41

to do with fear around isolation.

15:43

The thing I will say about

15:45

emotionally unavailable people, that is so

15:47

awesome. is that you know how

15:49

they're going to hurt you before

15:52

they hurt you. Yeah. And your

15:54

Saturn Venus opposition in your birth

15:56

chart loves that. It's like your

15:58

fear of the unknown is so

16:00

great that the like kind of

16:02

young part of you is like

16:04

I'm just going to keep on

16:06

choosing the thing that I know

16:08

will hurt me in this one

16:10

specific way because at least then

16:13

I have some modicum of control.

16:15

I feel very aware of that.

16:17

I mean, even just down to

16:19

the, because both of my parents

16:21

are also pretty emotionally unavailable people

16:23

and I'm currently not even in

16:25

relationship to them or my family

16:27

of origin right now. So I

16:29

do just feel sort of isolated.

16:31

I'm also in a city that

16:33

I didn't grow up in. I've

16:36

only been here for like a

16:38

year and a half so I

16:40

don't have that many close relationships.

16:42

So it's like. I feel like

16:44

I know all of these things,

16:46

but don't really know the steps

16:48

to actually breaking this cycle. Like

16:50

I don't understand. I feel very

16:52

aware of like that my choices

16:54

seem to be like re. I'm

16:57

just doing the same pattern over

16:59

and over again, but I like

17:01

don't know how to stop. Okay.

17:03

Let's let's talk about that. There's

17:05

a lot of layers. One layer

17:07

is kind of committing yourself to

17:09

the process of identifying what you're

17:11

getting out of it. And I

17:13

don't mean this in like a

17:15

syntax kind of a way, right?

17:17

I mean this more in an

17:20

understanding that your coping mechanism is

17:22

there for a reason. Whether it's,

17:24

is one of your parents narcissistic?

17:26

Yeah. Yeah, which is at mom

17:28

or dad? Yeah, mom. Yeah, mom.

17:30

And when you grew up, were

17:32

they married? Okay. Growing up with

17:34

a narcissistic parent teaches you to

17:36

dissociate yourself from your own preferences.

17:38

Right? And it teaches you to

17:41

center the parents' preferences and perspective

17:43

as a means of survival. There

17:45

are a lot of books out

17:47

there about growing up with being

17:49

the child of a narcissist. I

17:51

encourage you to read at least

17:53

one of them. Okay. Yeah, at

17:55

least one. There is so much

17:57

to kind of unlearn there, because

17:59

as much as that parent may

18:01

love you, it's always through this

18:04

kind of veil of self-centeredness. And

18:06

so it's not really about you

18:08

in some kind of core way.

18:10

And even though you of course

18:12

don't fucking want that, that's not

18:14

like, oh yeah, that's what I

18:16

want to date. It's... It's like

18:18

the lizard brain of the human.

18:20

It's like, well, this is my

18:22

core experiences of familiar relationships, of

18:25

love. And so I'm going to

18:27

keep on seeking it, right? Like

18:29

it's like being aware of that

18:31

pattern is really important because if

18:33

you, adult you, Octavia you, can

18:35

identify that like in our child

18:37

you, who's kind of hurt and

18:39

had really challenging experiences in their

18:41

childhood you. If you can identify,

18:43

oh, this part of me is

18:45

actually just like looking for things

18:48

that are familiar, because I associate

18:50

that part of me associated with

18:52

safety and love, even though adult

18:54

me, Octavia me, knows different, that's

18:56

how you start to shift the

18:58

pattern. And I know, you're a

19:00

Virgo, and you do not like

19:02

this advice because it is too

19:04

slow. Yeah. It's not a big

19:06

enough action, right? And you're right.

19:09

It's slow, and it's not a

19:11

very big action. But if you

19:13

want to change a pattern, then

19:15

it's about pattern recognition, right? It's

19:17

the only way. If you want

19:19

to randomly date somebody who's really

19:21

different than your pattern, but then

19:23

have it not worked and then

19:25

go back to your pattern, then

19:27

you make a big bold change,

19:30

right? Now, I've got good news

19:32

and bad news. It is the

19:34

same news. You are not going

19:36

through one Pluto transit. You are

19:38

going through two Pluto transits. I'm

19:40

assuming that in the last year

19:42

or so is when you stop

19:44

talking to your parents? It was

19:46

literally... a few weeks ago. Okay,

19:48

good on you. We can talk

19:50

about that if that's helpful. But

19:53

one of these transits started in

19:55

February of 2023. The other one

19:57

started at the end of the

19:59

last day of January of this

20:01

year. And you're going through a

20:03

Pluto square to Mars. You've got

20:05

Mars at three degrees of Scorpio

20:07

in the first house. And then

20:09

you've got a Pluto square to

20:11

your moon. Your moon is at

20:14

zero degrees of Taurus and 36

20:16

minutes. So here's the good news

20:18

and the bad news is. fucking

20:20

Pluto, right? Like it's intense, it's

20:22

challenging, there's a lot of potential

20:24

loss here. Here's the same, the

20:26

same news is the good news,

20:28

is the good news is that

20:30

if you're going through all these

20:32

Saturn transits where you are taking

20:34

accountability for your patterns and you

20:37

are getting real and getting present

20:39

and being like a good parent

20:41

to yourself, Then these Pluto transits

20:43

are best case scenario shit because

20:45

they help you to do the

20:47

deep work of like pulling out

20:49

chunks of like unhealthy shit and

20:51

releasing it. Like Pluto helps us

20:53

to do this profound release. And

20:55

that is actually what time it

20:58

is, right? So if you were

21:00

like, oh no, that sounds so

21:02

small, well now I've given you

21:04

really big. I've given you, you

21:06

know what I mean? And now

21:08

small didn't sound so bad. All

21:10

of a sudden I'm guessing. Yeah.

21:12

Sorry. Funny how humans are. We're

21:14

just like, I don't want it

21:16

to be small. Wait, wait, wait,

21:18

wait, give me small. All to

21:21

say, if I pull like Hawkeye

21:23

view, like big picture, right? The

21:25

big picture of what you're going

21:27

through is the part of you

21:29

that's impatient. Give a Mars Moon

21:31

opposition in your birth chart. Impatient

21:33

is your middle name. The part

21:35

of you that is quick to

21:37

offense is being activated so that...

21:39

you release the parts within that

21:42

that don't serve you. So when

21:44

you ask a question about wanting

21:46

to release baggage around self- sabotage

21:48

and your goals, I got to

21:50

say, yeah, okay, you're perfect timing.

21:52

It's like, I'm so happy this

21:54

is what you want to work

21:56

on because this is the assignment.

21:58

The downside, of course, is that

22:00

the only way to heal it

22:03

is to feel it. And so

22:05

this is where I pause and

22:07

I ask you about whether we

22:09

stay with relationship, the interpersonal stuff,

22:11

or we shift into your goals.

22:13

What situations is all this playing

22:15

out in? Like what can we

22:17

like tap into? Do you see

22:19

what I'm saying? I think it's

22:21

best to stick with relationships and

22:23

we'll come back to goals. The

22:26

goals. Yeah, I think it's it's

22:28

definitely playing out more outwardly. It's

22:30

definitely playing out a lot stronger

22:32

in my relationships, but what I

22:34

really want to know is about

22:36

my goals. Like I feel like

22:38

the relationship thing. I'm like tired

22:40

of it almost, but kind of

22:42

like those sinuses. So annoying. Let's

22:44

pretend they're not there. Okay. But

22:47

what relationship dynamics are at play

22:49

in this moment that are junkie?

22:51

Or that are like junking up

22:53

the system is what I meant.

22:55

I think probably the one that

22:57

feels the most like fresh wound

22:59

is the one with my mother.

23:01

So I'll have you say your

23:03

full name and then your mom's

23:05

full name? Okay. And then my

23:07

mom's full name is... This is

23:10

what I can see. You have

23:12

tried to have boundaries with your

23:14

mom. They don't go well. Is

23:16

she the one who's really like

23:18

aggressive and like a person who

23:20

has a lot of anger issues

23:22

or is that your dad? I

23:24

would say my dad's more aggressive.

23:26

Okay, so did you rely more

23:28

on an intimate relationship with your

23:31

mom when you were a child?

23:33

Yes, because my dad was mostly

23:35

traveling and wasn't at home very

23:37

much. Also your dad is too

23:39

unpredictable. I think you did the

23:41

right thing by taking space. I

23:43

really do. Because there is no

23:45

space for you to grow into

23:47

an adult with her because she

23:49

just either wants you to be

23:51

what she wants you to be

23:54

or locks you into being who

23:56

you once were. Am I seeing

23:58

this correctly? Absolutely. Yeah. Meanwhile, there's

24:00

a fucking dad, to be honest.

24:02

And your dad put so much

24:04

on your mother's plate and made

24:06

your mother accountable to so much.

24:08

kind of like abandon your mom

24:10

in a lot of ways. Yeah.

24:12

That it's kind of like the

24:15

pattern in their relationship and in

24:17

your childhood is persisting that she

24:19

gets all the blame for everything

24:21

even though he is supposed to

24:23

be like a 50% parent. And

24:25

he is easier to deal with

24:27

though because he's less needy. And

24:29

so if he like upsets you,

24:31

it's not like he has like

24:33

energy tentacles on you. Yeah, where

24:35

she does she she really like

24:38

me are you the only child?

24:40

No, I have two older brothers.

24:42

Oh Yeah, I have really bad

24:44

a relationship to both of them,

24:46

but they at least from what

24:48

I understand seem to be closer

24:50

to my mother at this point.

24:52

So I want to say this

24:54

in a way like I'm just

24:56

I'm not exactly sure how to

24:59

articulate this. Your mother identifies you

25:01

as a girl child. Yes. Yeah.

25:03

And Your mother has a bazillion

25:05

expectations based on her perception of

25:07

your gender. Yeah. And they're radically

25:09

different than anything that your brothers

25:11

would have experienced because she identifies

25:13

them as boys and they identify

25:15

as boys as well, eh? That

25:17

said, have you talked about your

25:20

gender with your mother? I've attempted,

25:22

it doesn't really go any, yeah,

25:24

it just, it feels like, I'm

25:26

talking to a wall. Yeah, that's

25:28

what I'm seeing. She does not

25:30

understand what the hell you're talking

25:32

about and doesn't want to have

25:34

the conversation, doesn't think it's important.

25:36

Yeah. And this feels emblematic of

25:38

your relationship with your mom. Yeah,

25:40

it is. She's like, I want

25:43

to be close to you, but

25:45

I don't want to deal with

25:47

any of the bullshit that you

25:49

think is important. Let's focus on

25:51

the things that are me, that

25:53

I think are important. Literally, exactly,

25:55

exactly. Yeah, I'm sorry. And also,

25:57

this makes a lot of sense

25:59

with your relationship patterns, right? Yeah.

26:01

People who are like. I think

26:04

you're amazing. You're so great. Let's

26:06

be together. Okay, good, let's focus

26:08

on that instead of this. Okay,

26:10

okay, but I don't really want

26:12

to hear about how hard things

26:14

are for you today because I

26:16

want to focus on what's going

26:18

on for me. Like this pattern

26:20

in your personal relationships mirrors this

26:22

kind of like core relationship you

26:24

had with the quote unquote safe

26:27

parent. Taking a break from your

26:29

mom is a really powerful way

26:31

of figuring out. who you are,

26:33

so that when you're with her,

26:35

her dismissiveness of you, and her

26:37

wild judgment. Like, I refer to,

26:39

like, the cop in your head

26:41

in the syntax. I mean, she

26:43

is the creator of these things.

26:45

Like, she is the arbitrator of

26:48

these things. Like, she is the

26:50

arbitrator. She's the cop. She's the

26:52

cop. She's 100% of your Saturn.

26:54

She's the cop. However, you have

26:56

interjected, you have taken on her

26:58

beliefs that in order to be

27:00

safe you must constantly police everything

27:02

you do, that every bad action

27:04

will be followed by some sort

27:06

of a punishment, and like that

27:08

whole like intercop thing you've interjected

27:11

it, you've taken it on. It's

27:13

like the thing you like about

27:15

your mother, the least. So you've

27:17

made it your own. You've just

27:19

made it your own. And the

27:21

truth is having a healthy Saturn

27:23

is a fucking beautiful thing. We

27:25

all have Saturn, so Saturn's either

27:27

healthy or not healthy, honestly, you

27:29

know. And so developing a relationship

27:32

with the cop in your mind,

27:34

where you, we're not talking about

27:36

demoting, we're just talking about demoting.

27:38

about evolving the role that that

27:40

part of you plays. So it

27:42

goes from a cop, which Boo,

27:44

hiss, to a strict paternal figure

27:46

or a strict teacher or something.

27:48

And then you evolved that to

27:50

a wise and reliable inner wisdom.

27:52

Like we can evolve that kind

27:55

of like punishing... force inside of

27:57

you that you've learned from your

27:59

mom into something and I say

28:01

we you we as people can

28:03

do this you in this situation

28:05

can do this can evolve it

28:07

and that just takes years yeah

28:09

sorry Mars opposite moon Virgo it

28:11

just takes years there's no way

28:13

around how it takes years and

28:16

this is the difference between first

28:18

and return and second Saturn return

28:20

right if we didn't evolve what

28:22

would be the point of continuing

28:24

to live just just to like

28:26

live through late stage capitalism and

28:28

a climate crisis and everything else.

28:30

It's a fucking point. To evolve

28:32

is the point, right? All to

28:34

say, having a boundary with your

28:37

mother at this time is the

28:39

healthiest thing for you to do.

28:41

And unfortunately, and please tell me

28:43

if I'm seeing this wrong or

28:45

right, but it looks like unfortunately,

28:47

because you can't actually have a

28:49

boundary with her that she respects,

28:51

having the ultimate boundary of like

28:53

you're out, I've completely cut you

28:55

out, is the only way to

28:57

have a boundary and a consequence

29:00

for your mom. Yeah, I haven't

29:02

even told her that I have

29:04

that boundary with her. I just

29:06

haven't been answering her calls or

29:08

her text. Okay, so you haven't

29:10

had, okay, so that's what a

29:12

child does. I just, I, for

29:14

the record to own what I

29:16

just did, I pointed my finger

29:18

at you too. I need to

29:21

say that, but I pointed my

29:23

finger at you, so I pointed

29:25

my finger at you. So if

29:27

you act like a child with

29:29

your mom, then she has no

29:31

motivation to evolve, go to the

29:33

grocery store. buy a nice thinking

29:35

of you, Hallmark card, and then

29:37

write her a letter and put

29:39

it in a sale mail. Do

29:41

whatever you want to do. But

29:44

say to her, I love you.

29:46

I don't know how to be

29:48

in a relationship with you because

29:50

you don't respect my boundaries. I'm

29:52

taking a break. Please understand and

29:54

respect. Even if you don't understand,

29:56

please respect. I'm not cutting you

29:58

out of my life forever. I'm

30:00

taking a break. Thank you very

30:02

much. Have a nice day. Goodbye.

30:05

Is that something you think you

30:07

could do? I think that's something

30:09

I could do. Yeah. It would

30:11

be great if you could just

30:13

say it to her. But what

30:15

all of us do is we

30:17

revert. trauma trance patterns is a

30:19

term for it, where when we're

30:21

around our parents we act like

30:23

children. Yeah. And just for whatever

30:25

it's worth, the seven-year-olds act like

30:28

children around their parents. Like it's

30:30

not just because you're still in

30:32

your 20s, although of course that

30:34

makes it more intense. So if

30:36

you want to have intentional boundaries

30:38

with someone, you must communicate them

30:40

unless you are kicking them out

30:42

of your life forever, in which

30:44

case... You know, you know, that's

30:46

not actually what you're doing with

30:49

your mom. Am I correct about

30:51

that? I wasn't sure just yet.

30:53

I really wasn't sure because it's

30:55

so recent that I sort of

30:57

like chose to stop speaking with

30:59

her. I was such like an

31:01

emotional decision that I feel like

31:03

I haven't really that with it

31:05

and completion. Yeah. It's great that

31:07

we're talking about it. Yes, it

31:09

is. Okay. Word to the wise.

31:12

And this doesn't go for the

31:14

person you've been dating for three

31:16

months. This goes for your mom

31:18

or the person you've been friends

31:20

with for a decade. Okay. Until

31:22

you're sure you're trying to burn

31:24

a bridge, don't burn the bridge.

31:26

Because you can't unburn a bridge.

31:28

Yeah. Saying I need space to

31:30

figure out what I need and

31:33

what I can offer, that's a

31:35

perfectly reasonable thing to say. It

31:37

might piss her off. She might

31:39

not respect it. You might not

31:41

respect it. You're still being the

31:43

adult in the adult in the

31:45

situation and taking accountability for what

31:47

you're what you're doing. Also for

31:49

the depth of the relationship, she's

31:51

your mom, right? She's not like

31:54

somebody even dating for three months.

31:56

She's your mom. So she does

31:58

deserve to know why you are

32:00

not speaking to her. More important.

32:02

Maybe you deserve. If you're going

32:04

to have a boundary, have a

32:06

boundary. Ghosting someone's not a boundary.

32:08

I mean, it's a boundary, but

32:10

it's not quite the same as

32:12

saying, are you aware that you

32:14

don't respect my boundaries? Are you

32:17

aware of how it makes me

32:19

feel? I think you're not, but

32:21

if you are and you keep

32:23

on fucking with my boundaries, well

32:25

that's even worse. So I'm taking

32:27

a break. You can say it

32:29

as angry as you want, you

32:31

can say it as mature as

32:33

you want, you can say it

32:35

as mature as you want, just

32:38

be honest. Yeah. Because she's your

32:40

mom. What I'm going to say

32:42

to you right now is gold.

32:44

Twenty-four-karet. Have you ever seen 24-kara

32:46

gold? It's bright yellow, it's delightful,

32:48

it's delightful, it's delightful, it's delightful,

32:50

it's delightful, it's delightful, is delightful,

32:52

is delightful. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

32:54

Hey, that was gold. It was

32:56

gold. 24 carrot. My favorite carrot.

32:58

You're welcome. So what you'll never

33:01

know is how your relationship with,

33:03

let's say, your mom could be

33:05

if you don't be different. Stay

33:07

in the relationship, but be different.

33:09

Staying in relationship with someone that

33:11

you're not talking to is a

33:13

thing. I don't want to brag,

33:15

but I've not talked to many

33:17

people over the course of my

33:19

life for many years and still

33:22

been in relationship with them. Yeah.

33:24

When it comes to your parents,

33:26

listen, if this was the fifth

33:28

time that this exact same thing

33:30

happened and you were taking break

33:32

for the fifth time for the

33:34

exact same reason, all right, maybe

33:36

she should get it by now.

33:38

But I don't think you have

33:40

a pattern with your mother of

33:42

saying, these are my needs, these

33:45

are my boundaries. This is how

33:47

you've trampled upon them. I know

33:49

you love me, but this isn't

33:51

functioning in a healthy way for

33:53

me, therefore I am taking care

33:55

of myself in this way. Yeah.

33:57

And then how in the world

33:59

is she supposed to know that?

34:01

Because you should know your mom

34:03

well enough to know. It would

34:06

never occur to her to think

34:08

in such therapyizing language. Yeah, I

34:10

would not. In a million years.

34:12

Yes. And when you say those

34:14

things, she won't understand you. I

34:16

mean, she'll technically understand you. She's

34:18

very smart, but like she'll be

34:20

like... what? She's not going to

34:22

get it. Yeah. Some of its

34:24

cultural, some of its personality. Yeah,

34:27

I think a lot of the

34:29

reason why I'm not speaking to

34:31

her is because of like a

34:33

very traumatic event that I learned

34:35

about post, like don't really have

34:37

any memories about it, but one

34:39

of my siblings told me about

34:41

it, and it's like beyond crazy

34:43

ridiculous. I told her about it,

34:45

and then she just pretended like...

34:47

Nothing happened. Like she was just

34:50

like, did she deny that the

34:52

reality of it? She didn't deny

34:54

the reality of it, but she

34:56

was like, why do you care?

34:58

Basically, was like, why do you,

35:00

why you so wrapped up in

35:02

that, that happened in the past?

35:04

Okay. So I still, so I

35:06

still have like this issue where

35:08

I'm like, I don't even know

35:11

if this thing happened. She's not

35:13

denying it. Right. But she's also

35:15

telling me to forget about it.

35:17

Okay, that's what I was asking.

35:19

I was asking what her generation

35:21

was. Up until very recently, most

35:23

people in cultures across the world

35:25

thought if it happened to you

35:27

when you're a kid, it doesn't

35:29

matter. You weren't there really. You're

35:31

not going to kids like a

35:34

little bubble of a human. Like

35:36

it's nothing. No big deal. And

35:38

a lot of people believe that.

35:40

Do I believe that? No. Like

35:42

the whole, it's like the centerpiece

35:44

of my practice is talking about

35:46

early developmental experiences, right? I don't

35:48

believe that. But there is a

35:50

difference between somebody believing that what

35:52

happens to a small child is

35:55

really serious and then pretending to

35:57

you that they don't care. And

35:59

somebody believing what happens to you

36:01

as a small child, like you

36:03

wouldn't be affected by it, so

36:05

why do you care? I am

36:07

not saying this to excuse your

36:09

mom's behavior. That doesn't mean you

36:11

consent to that behavior, but understanding

36:13

that there is a difference between,

36:15

like this is in part your

36:18

mother's narcissism, this is not fucking

36:20

listening to you. But it's... It's

36:22

also in part, she has a

36:24

certain set of beliefs and understandings

36:26

about reality. That's hard for me

36:28

to parse together just because when

36:30

she was young, close to the

36:32

age that I experienced my same

36:34

traumatic event, she experienced an extremely

36:36

traumatic event, which is seeing her

36:39

mother die from brain cancer. Oh

36:41

my God. You know? And this

36:43

this is the. grandmother who died

36:45

on my birthday, 20 years before

36:47

I was born. So it's confusing

36:49

to me. And she identifies that

36:51

as something that traumatized her? I

36:53

don't think she would use the

36:55

word traumatized, but she definitely would

36:57

describe it as something that's difficult

36:59

for her or that's sad for

37:02

her at the very least. Like

37:04

so it confuses me why she

37:06

asks me to throw away this

37:08

like deeply traumatizing thing. that I

37:10

don't even really have like a

37:12

grasp on that feels very like

37:14

much floating over my head because

37:16

I don't have any memory around

37:18

it right but she's just you

37:20

know she gets to hold on

37:23

to hers though so this is

37:25

really important and I want to

37:27

be really clear if there were

37:29

sides I'd be on yours to

37:31

be exceptionally clear okay thank you

37:33

yeah it's not even a you're

37:35

welcome it's just like obviously right

37:37

yeah It's really important to have

37:39

the ability to perceive things from

37:41

other people's perspective, not so you

37:44

agree with it, but to understand

37:46

what that person's coming from. When

37:48

I look at your mom, it

37:50

seems to me like her experience

37:52

of growing up without a mom,

37:54

of her mom being sick and

37:56

dying, is not in her thinking

37:58

about being present for the final

38:00

moments of her mother's life. It's

38:02

about the larger ongoing trauma which

38:04

she is consciously aware of and

38:07

like affected her, you know, mom

38:09

wasn't there at her wedding, you

38:11

know, those kinds of things. Mom

38:13

has not chosen to investigate her

38:15

feelings or her lived experiences or

38:17

her epigenetics. Your mom has struggled

38:19

with things, decided what it means,

38:21

decided what to do, and then

38:23

kept on trying to like mobilize

38:25

from there. Am I seeing that

38:28

correctly? Yes. And so the way

38:30

she's going to hold the fact

38:32

that Now we have like a

38:34

matrilineal pattern, right? That traumatic things

38:36

happen at the same age to

38:38

mother and child. And who knows

38:40

what happened to your grandmother at

38:42

that same age. And the only

38:44

way to break the pattern is

38:46

to hold it differently than your

38:48

mom would have held it. And

38:51

so as much as that is

38:53

lonely and is heartbreaking, being able

38:55

to break the pattern. in part

38:57

requires that you recognize that she

38:59

is in a radically different place

39:01

in how she holds her own

39:03

trauma. Yeah. It's not about forgiving

39:05

your mom. Yeah. It's not about,

39:07

okay, and this is a really

39:09

hard thing for most every child

39:12

of a narcissist. You being able

39:14

to see your mom's perspective does

39:16

not invalidate yours. And so you

39:18

have this pattern in your childhood

39:20

where you had to see things

39:22

from her perspective and that meant

39:24

abandoning yourself. But what I'm recommending

39:26

is recognizing that you can see

39:28

things from her perspective to contextualize

39:30

why for her it's a matter

39:32

of survival. If she believes that

39:35

what happened to you at that

39:37

very young age was real and

39:39

traumatic, it's not just about what

39:41

happened to you, it's about why

39:43

she didn't protect you. It's about

39:45

her complacency in it and then

39:47

it's about her own fucking childhood

39:49

and her capacity to have that

39:51

level of and emotional presence is

39:53

just not there. It's just not

39:56

there. Just not there. And it's

39:58

not something that she can on

40:00

a dime fix, especially not like

40:02

in a phone conversation where you're

40:04

like upset about something. But she

40:06

couldn't on a dime fix it.

40:08

She was like, I'm gonna go

40:10

to therapy about this, which she

40:12

would never do from what I'm

40:14

saying. Never. But let's say she

40:16

did. Let's say miracle about miracle.

40:19

It would take her years of

40:21

therapy to work on this. Again.

40:23

None of this is to invalidate

40:25

what you're feeling, what you're needing.

40:27

It's more to contextualize what's realistic

40:29

to get from her. And if

40:31

you are different, if you say,

40:33

you don't have to agree with

40:35

me, but you have to respect

40:37

me enough to have this conversation,

40:40

you have to listen to me.

40:42

If you could do that, if

40:44

you could give yourself that kind

40:46

of gift, then the relationship would

40:48

have to change. for you to

40:50

be able to do that, we'll

40:52

take some time. So again, this

40:54

is where I come back to,

40:56

like, taking a break is a

40:58

really good idea, but you've got

41:01

to tell her why. So she

41:03

understands that there's a depth to

41:05

the importance of this, and there

41:07

are consequences to her behavior. And

41:09

she does respond to consequences. Correct.

41:11

Correct. This is how it is

41:13

when you've a Saturn Sun opposition.

41:15

in your birth chart, you have

41:17

a narcissistic parent who responds to

41:19

consequences. Okay, you respond to consequences,

41:21

right? You're like, it's not a

41:24

sinus infection, it's consequences for doing

41:26

something terrible, like smoking. Yeah. Again,

41:28

that's the interjected perpetrator. And so

41:30

here's the thing. When you found

41:32

out it was a sinus infection,

41:34

you were like, oh. Yeah, okay,

41:36

maybe I got a sinus infection

41:38

because it was smoking, but also

41:40

I have a sinus infection I

41:42

have to deal with the sinus

41:45

infection I have to take care

41:47

of myself, right? Very literal, very...

41:49

So, your mom, if you ghost

41:51

her and she doesn't understand why,

41:53

and I can promise you she

41:55

doesn't understand why. I can promise

41:57

you, she doesn't understand why. You

41:59

know she doesn't understand why, right?

42:01

Yeah. Okay. So that's not a

42:03

consequence. And that means she'll never

42:05

respect it and respond to it

42:08

in the way you want. Yeah.

42:10

It has to be a consequence,

42:12

right? Which means you have to

42:14

believe in your own authority over

42:16

your own lived experience. You have

42:18

to believe that you deserve. enough.

42:20

You have to be able to

42:22

assert towards your parent as an

42:24

adult yourself, which is the post-satum

42:26

return behavior, right? And you are

42:29

technically post-satum return. To be able

42:31

to do these things and to

42:33

say, this is what I feel,

42:35

this is what I believe I

42:37

deserve, this is what I'm doing

42:39

to take care of myself, here

42:41

is the consequence of you not

42:43

being able to respect what is

42:45

real for me here. It'll change

42:47

the relationship. It'll change the relationship

42:49

and that's what you need. Want

42:54

to get involved politically, but you're

42:56

not sure what to do or

42:59

where to even begin? Calling your

43:01

Congressperson is a very effective way

43:03

to influence policy as a constituent

43:05

in the United States. Five calls

43:07

makes it easy for you to

43:10

reach your members of Congress and

43:12

make your voice heard. All you

43:14

have to do is go to

43:16

five calls.org. You can set your

43:18

location and instantly get a list

43:20

of current issues. Pick one or

43:23

several that are important to you.

43:25

You just click on the issue

43:27

and then it'll show you who

43:29

your representative is, provide you with

43:31

a phone number, and it will

43:33

offer a script that you can

43:36

read if you're not sure what

43:38

to say or edit if you

43:40

feel so inspired. They've got newsletters,

43:42

if you want a built-in reminder

43:44

to stay active. And if you're

43:47

feeling like nothing matters and calling

43:49

doesn't work, you can check out

43:51

their page on why calling your

43:53

representative does make a difference. Just

43:55

take the best next step. Visit

43:57

five calls.org to get started. School

44:00

boards and lawmakers around the country

44:02

are... and challenging books at a

44:04

pace not seen since the 1980s.

44:06

The American Library Association tracked 729

44:08

challenges to library, school, and university

44:10

materials and services in 2021. And

44:13

librarians have even been threatened with

44:15

criminal charges and jail time in

44:17

some places in this country for

44:19

lending out challenged books. You can

44:21

contact your representatives about this issue

44:23

by emailing, calling, or tweeting at

44:26

them, and above all else, by

44:28

banned and challenged books. Support the

44:30

important work of authors who are

44:32

being banned or challenged and in

44:34

the process support independent bookstores. My

44:37

favorite bookstore, Marcus Books, is the

44:39

oldest independent black-owned bookstore in the

44:41

country and has a banned and

44:43

challenged book list on their website.

44:45

You can go to Marcus books.com

44:47

to see this list and to

44:50

shop or visit whatever independent bookstore

44:52

that you love. support band and

44:54

challenged books and authors today. I

44:56

guess my question is, is like,

44:58

this makes me feel like I

45:00

can never be in a healthy

45:03

relationship. Why? And that's really what

45:05

I want. Wait, wait, why, tell

45:07

me, why does this make you

45:09

feel like you can never be

45:11

in a healthy relationship? It feels

45:14

hard to articulate, but it's almost

45:16

like, I guess it's like the

45:18

Virgo perfectionist of me, where I'm

45:20

just like... I'm sorry, I'm having

45:22

a hard time articulating this feeling,

45:24

but this does feel very connected

45:27

to just like a relational woes.

45:29

Okay, so I'm sorry. No, don't

45:31

be sorry. This is, I wanted

45:33

like stay in this moment with

45:35

you because you feel because maybe

45:37

your mom's fucked up, maybe your

45:40

like familiar relationships are problematic. That

45:42

means you don't get to have

45:44

a healthy love life. There's a

45:46

party that really believes that. Am

45:48

I hearing that right? Yeah. It's

45:51

a very heterous... sexual belief. It

45:53

is a deeply held cultural belief,

45:55

right? Like there's this thing that

45:57

I've noticed in straight culture, and

45:59

I don't know if you're straight

46:01

or not, you don't have to

46:04

tell me in this moment, but

46:06

there's this thing I've noticed in

46:08

straight culture where people say, oh

46:10

well, he doesn't have a good

46:12

relationship, where people say, oh, well,

46:14

he doesn't have a good relationship

46:17

with his family, I don't know

46:19

if that's communicated. relationships is kind

46:21

of very normal for gay people.

46:23

I think that there's like a

46:25

cultural thing that shifted within gay

46:28

relationships and that whole thing, but

46:30

it is a very straight belief.

46:32

But I am gay. Okay, great.

46:34

That doesn't mean you didn't come

46:36

from the straight world and you

46:38

don't live in the straight world

46:41

and you don't hold. that every

46:43

single one of us does it's

46:45

not like oh you know I'm

46:47

a personal color therefore white supremacy

46:49

means nothing to me it doesn't

46:51

reflect itself any of my shit

46:54

right like of course of course

46:56

so does your mom know you're

46:58

gay yeah she knows but I

47:00

don't think she really like knows

47:02

she doesn't know which means you

47:05

haven't really told her no I

47:07

mean I've introduced her to my

47:09

gay partner you know what I

47:11

mean she introduced her to like

47:13

a long time so she knows

47:15

So she knows, but I don't

47:18

think she really like care. I

47:20

don't know. I feel like, I

47:22

don't know. Her coping mechanism is

47:24

to not really accept it or

47:26

give it air. Yeah. She's trying

47:28

to give you a consequence, just

47:31

for the record. This has worked

47:33

with you in your childhood. She

47:35

kind of ices something out, and

47:37

then you kind of minimize it,

47:39

right? That's been the thing in

47:42

your childhood, so she's doing it

47:44

here. It's her, she doesn't have

47:46

a lot of moves. You can

47:48

come from incredible trauma. You can

47:50

come from incredible trauma in your

47:52

lived experience and in your epigenetics.

47:55

You can have irreparable relationships with

47:57

your parents or guardians. and your

47:59

siblings and grow into a person

48:01

who chooses themselves, works with their

48:03

trauma, and has healthy, sustainable, intimate

48:05

relationships. I know it through and

48:08

through and through. I believe it

48:10

with every part of my being.

48:12

I've seen it, I've experienced it,

48:14

it is possible. But with your

48:16

trauma, it is easier to imagine,

48:18

oh well. I'll be isolated alone.

48:21

And in a way that's what

48:23

your mother's already chosen for herself.

48:25

She's just isolated and alone in

48:27

the constructs of being wife and

48:29

mother because you don't get Venus

48:32

in the 12th house without mom

48:34

repressing her own social and kind

48:36

of personal needs. So it's a

48:38

pattern that belief is inherited through

48:40

the culture, right? It's like straight

48:42

damage. It's also inherited through your

48:45

mom herself. And your dad, I

48:47

mean my God, your dad is

48:49

such a, like, you know, product

48:51

of the patriarchy, we'll say. And

48:53

it's not true. It's not true.

48:55

Here's the button. There's a big

48:58

bite here. You don't want a

49:00

relationship completely. You want a fantasy

49:02

of a relationship. You want safety.

49:04

You want to know that you're

49:06

not going to be alone. But

49:09

that's not the same thing as

49:11

wanting a relationship. Yeah. Okay. So

49:13

here we go. You're, you're welcome.

49:15

Okay, here's the thing. In your

49:17

birth chart, you have the North

49:19

node conjunct Mars in the first

49:22

house. It's in Libra, but it's

49:24

in the first house. Now you

49:26

know, I am not, like I'm

49:28

not going to fixate too much

49:30

on the nodes because you're still

49:32

quite young, but there's something very

49:35

important things for me to tell

49:37

you about this. I want to

49:39

be really clear. Your nodes are

49:41

not planets. They're not parts of

49:43

your personality. They're where your soul

49:46

is journeying towards. They're evolutionary. And

49:48

in your birth chart, you've come

49:50

here to figure out who the

49:52

fuck you are and to choose

49:54

that person. That's having the Northode

49:56

in the first house. Your South

49:59

notice conjunct your moon in the

50:01

seventh house. So relationships, where they're

50:03

basically predicated on codependency and neediness,

50:05

they always lead to misery for

50:07

you. Have you noticed. Yes. But

50:09

it's also like what I want,

50:12

which is so strange. It seems

50:14

to be what I want. Okay,

50:16

so the reason why it's what

50:18

you want is a couple things.

50:20

One is we always want our

50:23

South node because it's familiar, right?

50:25

So we come into this life

50:27

doing our South node because it's

50:29

what your soul remembers having done

50:31

in your most recent incarnations and

50:33

it worked. You do it in

50:36

this life? That's an explosion. or

50:38

an implosion. It just, it doesn't

50:40

work, right? It's something else. You've

50:42

got that Venus opposition to Saturn,

50:44

you've got this pattern of being

50:46

raised by a narcissist. So codependency

50:49

is what the child of a

50:51

narcissist experiences with the parent who

50:53

has narcissism, because it's not based

50:55

on actual, like, parental structure, it's

50:57

not based on them knowing you

51:00

and choosing you, it's based on

51:02

you need to take care of

51:04

me so that I'm willing to

51:06

take care of you. You need

51:08

to agree with me so I

51:10

can love you. It's inherently codependent.

51:13

So good for you that you

51:15

can recognize that you want that,

51:17

that you keep on choosing it

51:19

because you want it, slash also

51:21

that part of you that believes

51:23

you will find yourself through intimacy

51:26

with other people. is wrong. Sorry.

51:28

Oh. Sorry. So that doesn't mean

51:30

you don't get intimacy. That doesn't

51:32

mean you don't get close relationships.

51:34

Your North node is in Libra.

51:36

Your relationships are meant to not...

51:39

be based on a codependent dynamic

51:41

and neediness. Your relationships are meant

51:43

to be based by you being

51:45

a whole ass adult, a full

51:47

person who is self-directed and self-possessed.

51:50

And they also are those things.

51:52

And then you choose each other.

51:54

Yeah. Needing someone, like being in

51:56

a dynamic where you like need

51:58

the other person. Again, I'm sorry,

52:00

but this is like... sexual trauma,

52:03

right? Because for patriarchy to function

52:05

in any culture, a woman cannot

52:07

be able to be self-sufficient because

52:09

she can't have a bank account

52:11

because whatever the fuck it is,

52:13

right? And so this idea of

52:16

love and partnership being predicated on

52:18

need and survival, this is a

52:20

trauma pattern. True, true, true intimacy,

52:22

true intimacy, happens between two whole

52:24

people who, you know, I mean,

52:27

it can happen between trauma, right?

52:29

Like we can trauma bonds, actually,

52:31

and that can last a lifetime.

52:33

But, ideally, what it is, is

52:35

that you choose yourself and they

52:37

choose themselves, and then you choose

52:40

each other, and then that interdependence

52:42

is sometimes about being pushed. And

52:44

just as a hot tip, you

52:46

can like cost play, role play,

52:48

codependency in bed. You know what

52:50

I mean? Like if you need

52:53

that, if that's part of your

52:55

sexuality, keep it. Keep it. But

52:57

keep it in the sheets and

52:59

not on the streets. Do you

53:01

know what I mean? Like make

53:04

it be a part of like

53:06

how you romantically and sexually connect

53:08

as opposed to a role that

53:10

you must adopt that kind of

53:12

requires that you're not fully yourself.

53:14

Yeah. This does make me think

53:17

of my X. Or I guess

53:19

like a series of X's. I

53:21

bet it does. Yeah. I bet

53:23

it does. I just. recently broke

53:25

up with and Aquarius who I

53:27

feel like I was really attracted

53:30

to because of how independent of

53:32

a person they were but ultimately

53:34

ended my relationship with them because

53:36

of the lack of consistency that

53:38

I received them and yeah I

53:41

just I don't know I feel

53:43

I guess it's just the same

53:45

like what you said it's going

53:47

to take time. for me to

53:49

ultimately figure out who I am

53:51

and therefore feel comfortable choosing someone.

53:54

And let's add a layer of

53:56

complexity which we haven't named yet,

53:58

which is you've a laborizing, you

54:00

also have mercury in labor in

54:02

your first house. Being direct about

54:04

your needs is not your forte.

54:07

Yeah. Sorry. It's not. And so

54:09

if you're within Aquarius who's very

54:11

independent. And you're not able to

54:13

say, hey babe, you intimated, you

54:15

suggested that we were going to

54:18

hang out this weekend, but I

54:20

can't seem to pin you down.

54:22

That makes me feel like all

54:24

kinds of weird. Can you just

54:26

make a fucking plan with me?

54:28

And then I'm not going to

54:31

be obsessing on it. Instead of

54:33

saying that directly, you would probably

54:35

say it indirectly. Hope they get

54:37

it. And so again, we have

54:39

this pattern that is so important.

54:41

which is in order for your

54:44

relationships to be different, you have

54:46

to be different. And so advocating

54:48

for yourself naming things is really

54:50

important. Here's what you don't want

54:52

to do though, okay? You don't

54:54

want to justify your needs, your

54:57

preferences, or your asks. That's called

54:59

being defensive, no matter what I

55:01

say. Obviously, right? And so the

55:03

work is to be able to

55:05

say to somebody you're dating, I

55:08

have mercury and labor. I'm terrible

55:10

about being directed by my knees.

55:12

If I say things in a

55:14

way that comes across as defensive

55:16

or something, or if I'm not

55:18

being clear, I'm sorry, I'm working

55:21

on it, please talk to me

55:23

about it. You can do that.

55:25

You're allowed to do that. What

55:27

I would recommend as a practice

55:29

for you is take out the

55:31

notes in your phone or like

55:34

a piece of paper, or whatever

55:36

works for your brain, and write

55:38

down what your preferences are, and

55:40

then write down how you've communicated

55:42

them to your partner. Yeah. You

55:45

will often find that you have

55:47

nothing to say. You have not

55:49

communicated them to your partner. You

55:51

just expect that they perceive things

55:53

the way you perceive things. So

55:55

it's obvious if they really cared

55:58

about you, then they would see

56:00

them. Again, this is being raised

56:02

from a narcissist in part, right?

56:04

Yeah. Your mother expected all of

56:06

that of you, and that's obviously

56:08

felt fucking awful, right? There's no

56:11

room for you in that. So

56:13

the work of this is for

56:15

you, tracking your own needs and

56:17

preferences, and then taking ownership of

56:19

them. By naming. You're Virgo, you

56:22

can name things. Yeah. You know,

56:24

I definitely think there were instances

56:26

where I felt like I was

56:28

communicating what I was needing from

56:30

them from this person that I

56:32

was seeing. Okay, pause. I'm going

56:35

to have you say both of

56:37

your names. Okay. Did you mainly

56:39

communicate your needs when you were

56:41

like really upset? Yeah. Okay. So

56:43

here's the thing. Have you ever

56:45

had someone communicate something to you

56:48

when they're really upset? Yes. Do

56:50

you remember their words or their

56:52

vibes? Their vibes. Correct. Yeah. So

56:54

that's a cheat. You're cheating. Anyone

56:56

listening should know that's a fucking

56:59

cheat. Because if I am enraged

57:01

or if I am weeping. Whatever

57:03

it is, it's a heightened emotion,

57:05

then the emotion is what you're

57:07

effectively communicating as opposed to the

57:09

needs. If you are really emotional

57:12

and you're trying to communicate something

57:14

that's really important to you, and

57:16

I will say, this is giving

57:18

20s, like this is giving 20s,

57:20

it's okay, do not, do you

57:22

know what I mean? Like, you

57:25

don't have to feel bad about

57:27

it. But it's important that, I'm

57:29

not saying never communicate when you're

57:31

in a heightened state of emotion,

57:33

but it's about coming back to

57:36

it. When you're feeling more grounded

57:38

and saying, hey listen, I am

57:40

aware that I communicated something that

57:42

was really important to me in

57:44

a moment when I was so

57:46

emotional, I was probably not really

57:49

clear, and I didn't leave room

57:51

for your emotions, because my emotions

57:53

were all I could take at

57:55

that time. Sorry, but that's accountability,

57:57

okay. Being able to say that

57:59

and say, I do need to

58:02

say, you know, as emotional as

58:04

I was in the moment. I

58:06

was letting you know that I

58:08

need you to be more communicative

58:10

about plans. I'm just using this

58:13

as an example. And I want

58:15

to just check in and see

58:17

like first of all, did you

58:19

hear that? Does that make sense?

58:21

Is that something that you can

58:23

that you can work with? I

58:26

just gave you another piece of

58:28

gold. Did you hear that? Did

58:30

it make sense? Can you can

58:32

you work with it? Right. Yeah.

58:34

You give them those three choices.

58:36

You ask them those three questions.

58:39

Write it down and repeat it.

58:41

Yeah, that's right. Write it down,

58:43

repeat it. Oh gosh. Because in

58:45

doing so, in working, like, in

58:47

being accountable for your needs and

58:49

asking them to hear you and

58:52

respond means two things. One is

58:54

you're having a real conversation now.

58:56

Yeah. And you're having a real

58:58

conversation that means they're going to

59:00

say things back to you. They

59:03

may say, I really get that

59:05

it bothers you, but like I'm

59:07

not going to be great at

59:09

planning. And you have to fucking

59:11

deal with the reality of that.

59:13

Yeah. And then the other thing

59:16

is, you're making them tell you

59:18

who they are. And that's really

59:20

powerful. You're giving them a chance

59:22

to meet you. And this may

59:24

turn out terribly. You may be

59:26

like, oh my God, we're never

59:29

going to get along because they're

59:31

not what I want. Or it

59:33

may allow them to be like,

59:35

oh shit. This person needs this

59:37

thing for me and it's not

59:40

a big deal. Of course I

59:42

can do it. I'm just not

59:44

used to it. You'll never know

59:46

if you don't try. And you

59:48

have Mercury and Libra, so this

59:50

is never going to come naturally,

59:53

you're never going to feel comfortable

59:55

with it. Not never, but like,

59:57

it's not going to be your

59:59

first choice instinct. That's a better

1:00:01

way of me saying it. But

1:00:03

you do have Mercury in the

1:00:06

first house, so you do talk.

1:00:08

Yeah, I talk. You do. You

1:00:10

do have the, I mean, it's

1:00:12

mercury in the house of Ares,

1:00:14

even if it's in the sign

1:00:17

of Libra. And so with that,

1:00:19

I want to be really clear,

1:00:21

articulating your needs, your boundaries, your

1:00:23

preferences is a practice. Everything in

1:00:25

life is just a practice. And

1:00:27

with every practice, you will fail.

1:00:30

With every practice, you will have

1:00:32

consequences that you don't like. With

1:00:34

every practice, you will improve. And

1:00:36

with every practice, you will forget

1:00:38

to do it sometimes. Give yourself

1:00:40

permission. Right? Yeah. Okay. Now, I

1:00:43

promised you to talk about your

1:00:45

goals. So I'm going to take

1:00:47

a sharp turn and see what

1:00:49

your question is there. Cool. So

1:00:51

you're talking about sort of the

1:00:54

ways that I... hold myself back

1:00:56

in romantic relationship or just like

1:00:58

relationships in general. I feel like

1:01:00

I do the same thing creatively.

1:01:02

Yeah. And, you know, I feel

1:01:04

like I am quite a creative

1:01:07

person and I do have a

1:01:09

lot of potential, but I find

1:01:11

myself like pouring myself into something

1:01:13

and then pivoting. like all the

1:01:15

time and I want to figure

1:01:17

out a way to how to

1:01:20

just be more committed to a

1:01:22

practice so that I can actually

1:01:24

become a version of myself that

1:01:26

I want to be like what

1:01:28

you said. Yeah. So the practice

1:01:31

is it around anything specific or

1:01:33

is it just like generally with

1:01:35

things that are important to you?

1:01:37

I think mostly with like creative

1:01:39

work and like sharing my creative

1:01:41

work. Here's the thing. When in

1:01:44

a state of codependence sharing your

1:01:46

work with the world is so

1:01:48

vulnerable, it feels like you have

1:01:50

no skin. Yeah. Yeah. So why

1:01:52

would you do that? Why would

1:01:54

you be like, I have no

1:01:57

skin? I will take the subway

1:01:59

now. Like, why would you do

1:02:01

that, right? And so the part

1:02:03

of sharing your work with the

1:02:05

world, I want to say, yeah,

1:02:07

I could see why you'd want

1:02:10

to do that, and I could

1:02:12

see why you wouldn't want to

1:02:14

do that. And I don't actually

1:02:16

want to encourage you to rush

1:02:18

yourself to share your work with

1:02:21

the world with the world, because

1:02:23

if three people like it. it

1:02:25

might just have you like crumble

1:02:27

in on yourself. So I'm going

1:02:29

to discourage you focusing on the

1:02:31

sharing part because for you cultivating

1:02:34

self-possession and self-acceptance is connected to

1:02:36

motivation. And that brings us to

1:02:38

the first part of your question,

1:02:40

which is, you know, I like

1:02:42

start and stop. You have a

1:02:44

Marsman opposition. Yeah, you can start

1:02:47

and stop. You do it and

1:02:49

then you get bored and you

1:02:51

get distracted and you get distracted

1:02:53

and then you do something different.

1:02:55

Right? So there might be like

1:02:58

this one thing that's really important

1:03:00

to you. If there's something you're

1:03:02

passionate about, you will have a

1:03:04

burst of energy. And then like

1:03:06

all bursts, it's over. So it's

1:03:08

actually good for you to have

1:03:11

multiple things happening at once that

1:03:13

are functioning at different levels of

1:03:15

passion. Right? So there might be

1:03:17

like this one thing that's really

1:03:19

important to you and it functions

1:03:21

at a really high level of

1:03:24

passion, which means your bursts are

1:03:26

hot. And then they deflate really

1:03:28

quick. one or two and that's

1:03:30

literal one or two other things

1:03:32

that you're passionate about that you're

1:03:35

doing at the same time so

1:03:37

like let's say you are like

1:03:39

is there is there something like

1:03:41

is it like painting is it

1:03:43

like that's mostly like poetry poetry

1:03:45

photography these days okay great so

1:03:48

just as an example let's say

1:03:50

it's poetry and you're feeling really

1:03:52

motivated and passionate about poetry right

1:03:54

now Once you have like a

1:03:56

moment where you're like, oh, I

1:03:58

got a line down and that

1:04:01

line was delicious, take your camera

1:04:03

and then you know maybe I

1:04:05

do other things it's you giving

1:04:07

yourself permission again we're back to

1:04:09

self-possession giving yourself permission to say

1:04:12

okay writing one good line in

1:04:14

a poem in a poem means

1:04:16

I shift the energy I open

1:04:18

up to the visual world in

1:04:20

this particular way with with my

1:04:22

camera and then you know maybe

1:04:25

I do other things and then

1:04:27

the poetry will come back Like

1:04:29

that's just your natural cycle. It

1:04:31

is not bad. It is not

1:04:33

good. It is your natural cycle.

1:04:35

And you can try to force

1:04:38

yourself to sit and fucking write

1:04:40

a whole poem. How's that work?

1:04:42

Not well, sometimes. Sometimes it works.

1:04:44

Sometimes it does not. Sometimes it

1:04:46

does not. You've got a strong

1:04:49

Saturn, right? And so your strong

1:04:51

Saturn means you're really good at

1:04:53

editing. And so when you force

1:04:55

yourself to sit... for too long

1:04:57

in an activity where the energy

1:04:59

burst isn't sustaining itself, is then

1:05:02

you go into editorial mode. And

1:05:04

so you start nitpicking your work,

1:05:06

I'm assuming. Yes, that's exactly what

1:05:08

happened. So sometimes, that's great, right?

1:05:10

Sometimes it's like, you know, it

1:05:12

makes it more precise. And sometimes

1:05:15

you just fucking take the magic

1:05:17

out of your own sales. So

1:05:19

my advice is to experiment with

1:05:21

different ways of being. When your

1:05:23

gut instincts tell you to sit

1:05:26

with it, sit with it. Force

1:05:28

yourself to sit. And every other

1:05:30

time, get up and go. You

1:05:32

have a Mars moon opposition. So

1:05:34

it's physical. So get up and

1:05:36

dance. Mars governs dancing. Do you

1:05:39

like kickboxing or any kind of

1:05:41

like fighty stuff? I like to

1:05:43

waitlift a lot. Okay. Would have

1:05:45

some have some heavy shit in

1:05:47

your writing studio or wherever you're

1:05:49

writing and lift some weights in

1:05:52

between like you write a line

1:05:54

with some fucking weights like that's

1:05:56

what Mars Moon opposition wants you

1:05:58

to do it's engage the body

1:06:00

When you go into your Vergonian

1:06:02

like mindscape, then you will often

1:06:05

leave the body. Not just because

1:06:07

Virgo, because your Virgo stuff is

1:06:09

in the 12th and your Saturn

1:06:11

is in Pisces. So, okay, return

1:06:13

to the body. Then you re-up, you

1:06:15

know, your spoons, as it were. And

1:06:17

that's a great practice for you, but

1:06:20

it's not a sign of you. It's

1:06:22

not baggage. The only baggage with

1:06:24

this is that you have baggage

1:06:26

about it. You have a value

1:06:28

judgment in it. Yeah. So I'm assuming your

1:06:30

mom is like, do an action

1:06:32

until it's completed, then choose a new

1:06:35

action. Yeah. That's your mom. You don't

1:06:37

need to interject that belief. That's

1:06:39

not you. Okay. Yeah. The good news is

1:06:41

this, this was, this isn't a real

1:06:43

problem. I mean, your relationship to it

1:06:46

needs to evolve, but there's nothing wrong

1:06:48

with this. This is just your

1:06:50

creative process. Okay. Yeah. That feels

1:06:52

good. Thank you. Yeah. You're welcome.

1:06:54

I'm so glad that that one

1:06:56

was not the thing we needed

1:06:59

to talk about, since we didn't

1:07:01

really fully talk about it. Yeah.

1:07:03

Okay, my dear. I know that

1:07:05

this is just barely scratched the

1:07:07

surface. Do you have a shrink? Do

1:07:09

you have a therapist? I do.

1:07:11

Great. These topics are great to

1:07:13

bring to therapy. Asking a

1:07:16

therapist to help you. identify your

1:07:18

needs in relationships and find healthy,

1:07:20

realistic ways of communicating your boundaries

1:07:22

with other people or your preferences

1:07:25

with other people. That's a great

1:07:27

topic for therapy and the therapist

1:07:29

can really help you to unpack

1:07:31

that stuff. And the reason why

1:07:33

I'm bringing up a therapist is

1:07:35

because that Saturn in the Sixth

1:07:37

House, it is really powerful for

1:07:39

you to have a ritualistic thing

1:07:42

that you return to where you

1:07:44

talk about yourself. or you don't worry about

1:07:46

what your friend thinks, or if you're

1:07:48

talking about yourself too long, like you

1:07:50

just know it's your space to talk

1:07:52

to someone who's like supposed to be

1:07:54

taking care of you and helping you out.

1:07:56

So therapy is really good for you

1:07:58

in that way. Ultimately... somatic process

1:08:00

is probably going to be the best

1:08:02

for you. Have you already found that?

1:08:04

Yes, that is very true for me.

1:08:07

Body-based stuff is really powerful for you.

1:08:09

So if you can find a therapist

1:08:11

who has a somatic process, amazing. It's

1:08:13

like hard enough to find a regular

1:08:15

therapist, so somatic is like, you know,

1:08:17

harder and harder. But if you find

1:08:19

somebody whose practice is not somatic, you

1:08:21

can say to them, I find somatic process

1:08:23

like bringing it back to the body is

1:08:26

really helpful. Is that you can work with

1:08:28

you can work with me on. And they

1:08:30

can say yes or no. Again,

1:08:32

that's practicing asking for what you

1:08:34

need, sir, which I recommend strongly.

1:08:37

Okay. Yes. I think it's really

1:08:39

important for you to be able

1:08:41

to practice just owning things that

1:08:43

are like not Virgo perfect, right?

1:08:46

That are like, I'm a capcorns,

1:08:48

I get it, right? But are

1:08:50

not that kind of perfect. There's

1:08:53

imperfections, mistakes, failings,

1:08:55

failings, whatever we want to

1:08:57

call them. that harm people, and

1:09:00

those really need to be managed and

1:09:02

dealt with. And then there's those

1:09:04

that are maybe just a little

1:09:06

embarrassing, that are not great, they're

1:09:08

not tidy. And those we need

1:09:10

to accept. Because if you accept

1:09:12

it, then you don't waste all

1:09:14

fucking time and energy spinning your

1:09:17

wheels on some shit that doesn't

1:09:19

matter, ultimately, right? And I

1:09:21

think that this is an important thing

1:09:23

for you in your personal

1:09:25

relationships. giving yourself permission to

1:09:28

just be like a messy

1:09:30

person who doesn't always know.

1:09:32

This thing that I've just shared,

1:09:34

this thing that we're just touching

1:09:37

on, is that it's foundational

1:09:39

to boundaries. Being

1:09:41

able to say I won't or I

1:09:43

can't or no requires a couple

1:09:45

layers of self-acceptance that

1:09:48

have to exist before

1:09:50

the request occurs. Yeah. Does

1:09:52

that make sense? Yes. And

1:09:54

that's why... at this time, you cannot,

1:09:56

you have not been able to

1:09:59

effectively like. just cause play emotional

1:10:01

co-dependency. You just know how to do

1:10:03

it, right? Because you haven't given yourself

1:10:05

permission to say no, or I can't,

1:10:07

or I won't, or I don't want

1:10:09

to. And when you give yourself permission

1:10:11

to say no, it gets a lot

1:10:14

easier to have a romantic dynamic with

1:10:16

someone, where it's like super intimate, you

1:10:18

can go there without it being a

1:10:20

trauma pattern. If you are more self-possessed,

1:10:22

if you give yourself permission to have

1:10:24

preferences and limitations and all that kind

1:10:26

of good stuff. Yeah. All right, my

1:10:28

dear, then I guess that is your

1:10:31

damn reading. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Not to

1:10:33

think about. A lot to think about.

1:10:35

That's, that's, I mean, that's the goal

1:10:37

is that you have things to think

1:10:39

about. You're doing a great job, though.

1:10:41

I mean, honestly, with these transits, your

1:10:43

life could be much more complicated. we're

1:10:45

literally a shit show like an absolute

1:10:47

this is the most stable I've been

1:10:50

in maybe five years that's honestly amazing

1:10:52

it means you've been doing work because

1:10:54

there's no way that this would be

1:10:56

the most stable period of the last

1:10:58

five years if you weren't doing work

1:11:00

thanks to you like a lot of

1:11:02

that is in huge part because of

1:11:04

your work and because of your podcast

1:11:07

when I tell you that was like

1:11:09

that is Currently still, my weekly schedule,

1:11:11

every Sunday I'm sitting and listening, I'm

1:11:13

journaling, like you have really guided me

1:11:15

a lot and I'm just, I'm so

1:11:17

grateful for this reading and, you know,

1:11:19

just being able to interface with you

1:11:21

a little bit. Yeah, fuck yeah. Well,

1:11:23

I really appreciate you saying it's because

1:11:26

of me, but for the record and

1:11:28

this is not me being humble, it's

1:11:30

definitely because of you, because you definitely

1:11:32

did the work. But I will also

1:11:34

take the, the. your words as they

1:11:36

are intended and I super appreciating. You

1:11:38

opened a door that I didn't know

1:11:40

was there. That's so great. That's the

1:11:43

greatest thing I ever heard. And also,

1:11:45

I didn't push you through it, you

1:11:47

know, to be clear, like you did

1:11:49

the work. Yeah. And I think that

1:11:51

that's really important, right, is owning.

1:11:53

did the work. the work.

1:11:55

You what I mean?

1:11:57

It's good to I

1:11:59

it. It's just

1:12:02

good to own it.

1:12:04

Thank you. to my

1:12:06

pleasure. good to own it. It's

1:12:08

just near, own we're

1:12:10

still here, It's we're

1:12:12

still here.