2:00

most importantly, he

2:02

once guest starred on a

2:05

show we've been obsessing about

2:07

on this podcast, Lanigan's

2:10

Rabbi. Please welcome the

2:13

versatile and multi-talented Peter

2:16

Marshall. Well, thank you

2:18

guys. Thank you very

2:21

much. I

2:24

should be, I should have a bigger house after all

2:26

that stuff. I

2:29

just knew I'd do that. I did well,

2:31

didn't I? Oh, it's an impressive resume, Peter.

2:34

We met once. We did something, there was

2:36

a bunch of, there was Gene Rayburn and

2:38

I think Bob Eubanks and Wink Martindale and

2:41

a bunch of us. You were doing some

2:43

kind of a show and we went over

2:45

and did something with you and I, it's,

2:47

you know. I wonder if that was up

2:50

all night. It could very well

2:52

be. It's quite a long time ago. And, you

2:54

know, I'm

2:58

90 years old, so what do you want from

3:00

me? I don't worry. I have trouble with yesterday.

3:02

Yeah, happy birthday. We saw

3:05

pictures of your birthday on Facebook. It

3:07

was really lovely. The Paley said here, they had

3:09

little do for me and about 260 lovely friends

3:14

showed up and we had, they

3:16

showed film of me from 1940, what was it, 1949. I had a

3:18

show on

3:23

ABC called, what

3:25

the heck was it called? Anyway, it was the

3:27

first show ever filmed back, they sent back to

3:29

New York and I had never seen

3:31

it and we did 11 of them and we had

3:35

the Neil Hefty Orchestra, big orchestra. Neil

3:37

Hefty, wow. Yeah, and it starred Tommy

3:39

Noonan and Pete Marshall and we

3:41

were working at a little place here called the Band Box and

3:43

we were getting 250 a week and

3:46

they asked us to do the show and

3:48

we were the stars and we got $45 a

3:50

week. Now this is 49, but

3:52

I thought they were all gone. They found

3:54

three of the shows at the Television Academy.

3:57

They showed that and then I had never

3:59

seen, I had done Gordon Jenkins Manhattan

4:02

Tower in 1954, which

4:05

was an hour and a half live, and

4:07

I had never seen that. And

4:09

there it was. Stuff I had done. Me singing

4:11

with Dinah, me singing with Dionne Warwick, me singing

4:14

with all these different people. Bob,

4:16

you know, it was just an amazing evening. This guy

4:18

knocked himself out. His name is Jimmy Pearson. He

4:21

does all my stuff for PBS. I don't know if

4:23

you have watched my big band stuff on PBS, but

4:25

he puts all that stuff together, and he's just an

4:27

amazing guy. So it was a thrill for me, and

4:30

a lot of people showed up, and a lot

4:32

of dear, dear friends, and it was a lovely

4:34

birthday. Who were some of the people who showed

4:36

up? Let me see. We had

4:38

Bobby Morris, and we had Barbara Eden, and

4:40

we had Lonnie Anderson, and we had... Joanne

4:43

Worley was there. I saw her

4:45

on Facebook. Joanne Worley and Artie

4:47

Johnson, and Alex Trebek, and just

4:50

people, you know, people I've worked with and I've

4:52

done all my life. And Neil Hefty, that's my...

4:55

He was my roommate at one time. Really? I

4:58

was at the Forest Hotel. A couple of things. I was 15.

5:01

And Batman. Yeah, yeah.

5:03

Yeah. I mean, he was... Then

5:05

we were living at the Forest Hotel, and

5:07

he was playing trumpet with Mugsy Spanner, I

5:09

think, at the old Arcadia Ballroom. And

5:13

I was a page at the time. I had been at 14. I

5:16

was an usher at the Paramount Theatre. And

5:18

at 15, I was a page boy at

5:20

NBC. I was the youngest page. It's a

5:22

long story. I won't bore you how little

5:24

nepotism got me the job. But I was

5:26

living with Neil. He would write arrangements for

5:28

the Jerry Wold Band or Sonny Dunham for

5:30

10 bucks. And

5:33

I was dating Blossom Deary. Do you ever hear

5:35

of Blossom Deary? Oh, sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah, great

5:37

piano singer. Yeah, we were all kids together. And

5:40

so when I got this TV thing, they were

5:42

looking for a band. I said, I got the

5:44

guy. And that was Neil's

5:46

first big band thing he ever did. That was 1949, yeah.

5:49

He'd come up on this show. I'm

5:52

sorry? I said his name has come up on

5:54

this show. We've mentioned it. Oh, I'm sure it

5:56

has. You did the music for How to Murder

5:58

Your Wife with Jack And he did, and the

6:00

odd couple, and they did a lot of TV,

6:03

and also Batman, bum bum bum bum bum bum

6:05

bum bum. Sure, sure, sure. He

6:08

said he made more money from that than anything he ever

6:10

did. And now

6:12

I became a regular

6:15

on Hollywood Squares, but

6:18

this was later on with Whoopi

6:20

Goldberg and Henry Winkler. Right.

6:23

And now we had fun on

6:25

Hollywood Squares, but I heard that

6:28

your period of

6:31

Hollywood Squares, there was like kind of fun

6:33

in a bottle. Oh,

6:35

we had, you must remember,

6:37

it was very familial. Charlie

6:40

Weaver, Cliff Harkett, I've known since I'm 18. Wally Cox,

6:42

I went to PS165 at 109th Street. He

6:46

was a year ahead of me. I've known Rosemary

6:48

all my life. Vinnie Price, I've known since I'm

6:50

18. I mean, so we

6:52

were all kind of family, and it was

6:55

fun. And I was

6:57

imbibing a tad in those days. I

7:00

haven't had a drink in about 45 years, but I

7:03

wouldn't drink on the show, but we would do three

7:05

shows and we'd have a big sumptuous dinner and there

7:07

was wine and Paul Lind

7:10

and whomever. And

7:13

so those Thursday and Friday shows were

7:15

quite wonderful. You

7:19

know, we never rehearsed. I

7:22

just would walk in. Who's on the show? And

7:24

it was amazing. There would be

7:26

Ginger Rogers or Gloria Swanson or,

7:29

you know, Walter Mather. I

7:32

would be so excited. And

7:34

we would just wing the whole thing.

7:37

It was a very loving bunch

7:39

of people, the production staff. And

7:41

we were on for 16 years and it was a

7:44

love fest. It was really a lot of fun.

7:46

Why were the Thursday and Friday shows, in particular,

7:48

the Lucerne? Well, there was wine and dinner. That's

7:51

why. I wanted to point

7:53

that out. So by the Thursday and

7:55

Friday show, they were blasted. Well,

7:58

some of us were. that not

8:00

me. No, I never drank on the show. I

8:02

had too many words. So no, I

8:04

was a good boy on the show, but I would see

8:07

some people just, you were talking

8:09

about Glenn Ford a little earlier. Yeah. He had Thursday

8:11

and Friday, we'd have to carry him in. They'd

8:15

put him on his chair and they'd

8:18

go from there. But, you know, he

8:20

loved doing the show. He was a

8:22

very sweet man. And, but

8:24

he had somebody with him at all times to

8:26

drive him here, to there and back. And it

8:29

was amazing. You know, I walked in one night

8:32

and George Saunders was on the show. Wow. Now

8:34

I was, I said, George Saunders

8:36

was on the show. I was

8:38

so excited. Anyway,

8:41

it was a wonderful experience for me because it

8:43

took me four and a half hours a week

8:45

to do the show. So I got to work

8:47

Vegas or we'd get 10 weeks

8:49

ahead and I would go out and do

8:51

the music band or, you know, guys and

8:53

dolls or whatever. So it was a, it

8:56

was a blessed job and they paid me

8:58

wonderfully, I must say. Now I heard Paul

9:00

Linton when he got

9:02

blasted, he was more than

9:04

a handful. He could be grumpy. There's

9:10

some good stories in your book about him,

9:12

Peter. Oh yeah. You know the book, they

9:15

said, why don't you do your life

9:17

story? I said, my life story, nobody

9:19

remembers the people. I, you know, like

9:21

Neil F. Nobody remembers Neil. I said,

9:23

nobody will remember anybody. And you

9:26

talk about Jolson who got me my

9:28

first job. No, kids don't remember Al

9:30

Jolson. Al Jolson got you your first

9:32

job? He did. He got me my, I

9:35

was 14. My

9:37

sister was in a show called, hold on to your

9:39

hats. My sister was the actress Joanne Drew. Joanne Drew

9:41

from Red River and Red River and all the Kingsmen.

9:43

All the Kingsmen, yeah. And she wore a yellow ribbon.

9:45

Sure. And her name is Joanna

9:48

LaTisha Lacock. I'm Ralph Pierre Lacock. I

9:50

think our parents wanted us to know

9:52

how to get along with people, so

9:54

they gave us these names to show

9:56

us that life was

10:00

not easy. So that was a difficult

10:02

upbringing with those names. When

10:05

she went to New York, our dad had died when she was 14 and

10:07

I was 10. We're from West

10:09

Virginia. Mom took her to New York

10:11

and she became, John Robert Powers, the

10:13

modeled guy, he gave her the name

10:15

Joanne Marshall. And so when I got

10:17

my first job, I was Pete Marshall. I wanted to use

10:19

my mother's maiden name. But they laughed,

10:21

they said, well, that would be simple. I would have been

10:24

Peter Frampton. Wow. Oh, wow. That's

10:26

funny. Isn't that strange? Well, he was

10:28

in love with my sister and

10:31

he would come, we were living on 93rd Street in

10:33

West End Avenue. He would come

10:35

up there and my mother couldn't stand him. And

10:38

he was, my, my, my sister was probably 18

10:40

to 19 at the time. And

10:42

there was this old guy. And so

10:45

he had schmooze mother and I was sitting there one day

10:47

and I was in usher at the old Riviera theater. I

10:49

don't know if it's still there at 96th Street and Broadway.

10:52

And he said, hey, I can't eat. What do you want to

10:54

do? I said, I want to be an usher at the Paramount

10:56

theater. He said, no kidding. He said, give

10:58

me the phone. He called,

11:00

he dials it. Give me Bobby Whiteman. Bobby's not

11:02

here. Give me Bobby Shapiro. Hello, Bobby. You're over

11:05

here. I got

11:07

a favor. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. Start

11:09

Friday. And that's how I got my first job

11:11

around the business. I was 14. I

11:14

was 6'3 and weighed about 104 pounds. And

11:17

I was there for almost, oh gosh, until

11:19

I got the gig at the NBC. I

11:21

got the page board job. Yeah. Go

11:25

ahead. One question. I'm supposed to ask

11:27

you that I told a couple

11:30

of times on this show, but I think

11:32

you were there. Might

11:34

have been. And that's when you

11:37

and Paul Lynn went

11:39

into the gold diggers. They

11:42

were those famous sexy girl dancers. For

11:44

the Demarcus Show. Yeah. Yeah.

11:48

Well, go ahead. The

11:50

story's been told on the show several times

11:52

today. But we were told that you. Well,

11:54

yeah, we were told you had the definitive

11:56

version. Actually,

11:58

I was not there. Wally Cox was

12:00

there. Wally tells

12:03

the story. Oh, because the way

12:05

I heard it was that

12:08

Paul Lynn was brought into

12:11

the Golddiggers dressing room. That

12:13

was these sexy girls that

12:16

would dance in the Dean

12:18

Martin show. And Paul Lynn

12:21

looked around disgustedly and said,

12:23

this place smells like cunt.

12:27

No, he didn't say that. He

12:29

said pussy. Say, you've been

12:31

corrected. He

12:35

says, this place smells like pussy. And then there was

12:38

a pause. And then he said, I think. What

12:43

made me laugh was the I think. Now

12:48

the truth could be told. The truth could

12:50

be told. That's great.

12:52

We finally got it cleared up.

12:54

It's an educational program. You

12:56

can say anything you want here, Peter. It's just on

12:59

the internet. But tell us about Jolson.

13:01

You were starting to tell us about Jolson giving you

13:03

a... He got me that

13:05

job. Actually, Joni was in love with

13:07

the bass player. I think his name

13:09

was already Bernstein with the Benny Goodman

13:11

band. But can you imagine? Can

13:14

you remember, when I went to New York, it

13:16

was 1938. There was bands everywhere. At

13:18

the New York, Glenn Miller, Astor Rovahby, Harry

13:22

James, he got the Strand, the Capitol, Louis

13:25

State. Then he had the Roseland Ballroom. And

13:29

music. It was Rodgers and Hart. It was

13:32

Gershwin. It was cool. The first show I

13:34

ever saw, I told this at my birthday

13:36

party, was the thing called Leave It to

13:38

Me with Gaxon and Moore. Now, nobody remembers

13:40

William Gaxon and Victor Moore, but Victor Moore

13:42

was really a great comedy actor. And

13:45

there was a little girl in the show who did

13:48

a strip tease. I'm 12 years old. And

13:51

she went down to Broad Patties and Cole Porter

13:53

wrote this song called My Heart Belongs to Daddy

13:55

that was Mary Martin. That

13:57

was my first show. Then I saw Buddy Epson

13:59

and his son, sister in

14:02

a show. And then I

14:04

saw, my sister took me to the Roxy

14:06

Theatre when I was 12. And

14:09

I had no idea, but it

14:11

was the most glorious theater I think I'd ever

14:13

seen. And 12 years later I'm headlining it. Can

14:15

you believe that? You know? Little

14:18

did I know. But New York was just the

14:20

most wonderful place because first of all it was

14:22

run by the mob. And so it was clean

14:24

and nobody bothered you. It was

14:27

safe. Your sister Joanne

14:29

Drew married the singer Dick James. Dick James, right.

14:31

And that helped you get a leg up in

14:33

the business. Do I have that right? Well, yeah,

14:35

I always wanted to be a singer. And he

14:37

was, I had lost, as I mentioned,

14:39

I lost my dad. So he was sort of my

14:42

big brother or father figure. And

14:44

he was just the greatest singer you ever heard in

14:46

your life. And they met at the Paramount when she

14:48

was one of the Copa dancers and he was singing

14:50

with the Harry James band. I think he was making

14:52

$50 a week and Joni was making $75. And

14:56

he's about, oh, about eight months

14:58

after they got married, he teamed up with a guy

15:00

by the name of Billy Burton, a manager. And

15:04

within about three months he was making $25,000 a week.

15:07

I mean, he had hit record

15:09

after hit record. Nobody realized that he

15:11

was bigger than Frank Sinatra at one

15:13

time. He was the highest paid American

15:15

for two years in a row. Dick

15:17

James. And yeah. And who was some

15:19

of the big gangsters back then? Well,

15:22

I worked for Frank Costello at the Old Martin

15:24

Inc. in 1950. And I worked

15:26

in Chicago. I worked for Dinji and Donjoe at

15:28

the Chez Paré and I worked for

15:30

the Fittita Brothers down in Galveston. And every

15:32

town had this. Fittita

15:35

Brothers. I've

15:37

heard that from every performer

15:40

says they loved working with

15:42

the mob. Well, Mo

15:44

Daelets was like a surrogate father.

15:46

And Monty Proser, who opened

15:48

it, it was Monty Proser's Copacabana. It

15:51

wasn't Jack and Trotta. When Monty had

15:53

it, Jack and Trotta was the doorman.

15:55

Okay? And Monty Proser, I met when

15:57

I was 14 because my sister

15:59

was a a dancer, one of the Copa

16:02

Darlings. And I worked

16:04

for Mo Dailitz. At noon in the marshal, we

16:06

opened the desert in in 1950 and

16:08

Mo was so wonderful to me and

16:10

I knew him into his 90s. And

16:13

he was, in fact, they said,

16:15

he worked for one of these days they're gonna

16:17

ask you a favor. I said, really? Do you

16:19

think so? Anyway, I got this call. This is

16:21

what I'm doing well. And it's

16:23

from Mo. He said, hey, I got a favor to

16:25

ask. Oh my god, what's he gonna ask? He

16:28

said, would you host the Joe DiMaggio golf

16:30

tournament? That was the

16:32

favor he asked. Not

16:34

so bad. Frank and

16:37

I were talking about

16:40

years ago, like there was

16:42

Rowan and Martin's laughing. Right.

16:46

And I

16:48

hear you and their straight man

16:50

Dan Rowan. You didn't have a high

16:52

opinion of him. Well, it's

16:54

not that I didn't have a high opinion. It's

16:56

not, let me give you, I'll

16:58

tell you the story. Dan was selling used cars

17:01

and Dick was a bartender. They did

17:03

not know each other. They were not friends

17:06

and they both wanted to be in show business and

17:08

they were both very close to Tommy Noonan. Tommy passed

17:11

at 48. He was just a brilliant comic. You're

17:13

your ex, we should tell our listeners, your ex partner, your

17:16

ex comedy partner. We were really the hot guys. In 1950

17:18

at the Martinique,

17:21

we took over New York. We were

17:23

really, especially on the West Coast, we were huge. But

17:26

anyway, he had these

17:28

two friends. I knew Dick, I didn't know Dan. And

17:31

he said, let's put them together for an

17:33

act. I said, why ruin their life? He

17:36

said, they want to be in

17:38

show business. So we wrote

17:40

their act, we got him an agent.

17:43

Joe Rollo was a guy who was

17:47

a very big agent out here in California. We

17:50

even got them their first job. We were working a

17:52

joint in Palm Springs

17:54

called the Chi Chi. And Erwin

17:56

Schumann owned it and we booked ourselves in

17:58

and then canceled and we And we called Erwin and

18:00

said, we got an act for you. And

18:02

that's how they started. And over

18:05

the years, they did wonderfully well. And

18:08

when Tommy was dying, he was

18:10

at the motion picture home. He was

18:12

out there for eight months. I said to Dan

18:15

and Dick, I said, go out

18:17

and visit Tommy. You know, tell him how to

18:19

talk about his life. It's going to be okay.

18:22

And be encouraging. Dick would go out all

18:25

the time and sent money and think Dan

18:27

never once went out. So

18:30

he was off my list. I just

18:32

thought he was terrible for that. And

18:35

Dan was not the nicest guy in

18:37

the world anyway. He alienated everybody. He

18:39

would have alienated St. Francis, you know,

18:41

and the Pope, you know. Gosh, anyway,

18:44

no, I didn't like him. And

18:47

his children, his son is a very

18:49

big lawyer out here. And

18:53

they don't speak to me, of course. And I don't

18:55

blame them because I've said nasty things about their father.

18:57

But I think I'm in the right to do it.

19:01

And then Frank

19:03

was telling me that when

19:05

he originally, it was Dan Rowan. That guy.

19:07

Well, you'd be for Hollywood Squares. Yeah. Yeah.

19:10

I was doing a show in New York

19:12

called Skyscraper. It was the only musical Julie

19:14

Harris ever did. I was her leading man

19:16

and Charles Nelson Riley. And the music was

19:18

written by Sammy Kahn and Jimmy Van Hughes

19:20

and some wonderful songs. I'll only miss her

19:22

when I think of her. Great songs. And

19:25

it ran about a year and it closed. They

19:28

usually give you two weeks to notice, but another

19:30

show called Bajor was coming in. So it's

19:33

amazing how timing is so important. They give,

19:35

I got back to California a

19:37

week earlier than I should have. And the day

19:40

after I got home, I got a call from

19:43

Bob Quigley and he said, we're

19:46

doing a game show. We'd like to talk to you. In

19:49

those days, I was doing the Kellogg's commercials

19:51

and they were kind of cute. I had like

19:53

30 of them running. And his wife remembered me

19:55

from Newton and Marshall and they

19:58

were looking for the straight. So I walked in. And

20:00

I saw this pilot they had done a year early

20:03

at CBS with the Bert Parks. In

20:05

fact, I said, he's awfully good. Why

20:07

aren't you using him? And they said, we're

20:09

looking for a complete non-entity. I

20:12

said, oh really? I'd been in the business 25 years. So

20:18

they didn't have it. You know, California has no idea what

20:20

New York is doing. Do you realize that? Yeah,

20:22

sure. Anyway, I was going to go back and

20:25

do breakfast at Tiffany's. Abe Burrows asked me what

20:27

I like to do. Oh, with Mary Tyler Moore. And

20:31

so they offered me this

20:33

game show. Well, they talked to me about it.

20:35

And I said to my age, I said, I want to go

20:38

back to New York. I was in love with the dancer. And

20:41

I said, I want to spend, I want to, yeah,

20:43

I grew up in New York. I went, yeah. Anyway,

20:45

I wanted to go back. And so I go back to

20:47

New York. And they called

20:49

me. My agent, they said, they want you to

20:51

do this show called Hollywood Squares for 13 weeks.

20:54

I said, tell them I'm not really interested. And

20:57

they said, well, OK, but if you won't do it,

20:59

Dan Rowan's going to do it. I

21:02

said, really? I said, screw

21:04

Dan Rowan. I did the 13 weeks. Amazing.

21:10

And I was going to still go back because I didn't

21:12

think the show would last past 13 weeks. And

21:14

they picked this up. And then Abe Burrows called

21:16

me and said, they want to go blonde on

21:18

the show. I said, what do you mean? He

21:20

said, they want Richard Chamberlain. Well, they

21:22

never even opened to New York. They did previews, but

21:24

they never opened the show. So you never know. You

21:27

take a left, you take a right, you take a

21:29

shot. And who knows what's going to happen? I don't

21:31

know. Well, had Dan Rowan become the host of Hollywood

21:34

Squares, perhaps Rowan and Martin's laughing never comes to be.

21:36

Well, I'll tell you what kind of a guy he

21:38

was before laughing. Dick never knew this, by the way.

21:40

I said to Dick, I said, Dick, did you ever

21:42

know that Dan was up for Hollywood Squares? He said,

21:44

no. I said, well, there you go. Never

21:47

told him. Never told him. Yeah. Yeah.

21:50

And yeah, the breakfast at Tiffany's turned out

21:52

to be, as you said, also. Yeah, they

21:54

closed in previews. Yeah, they

21:56

closed in previews, I think. So the biggest

21:58

show of. your career

22:01

is because you wanted to screw

22:03

over Dan Grove. That's about right.

22:05

That's good stuff. That's

22:08

why I got the big house here. That's

22:12

paid for. Was there

22:14

a second pilot, Peter of Hollywood

22:17

Squares, with Sandy Baron? Sandy

22:19

did a pilot. I don't know if he did a pilot.

22:21

Sandy was a friend of mine, by the way. Yeah, funny

22:23

guy. Yeah, he was a cute guy. I think he did

22:25

a run-through. I think he did some run-throughs. I don't know

22:27

if they shot. They may have shot a pilot. I don't

22:29

know. But I don't think so. The

22:31

only pilot I ever saw was Bert Parks. Yeah.

22:35

And now, Rosanna

22:38

Arquette and

22:40

David Arquette, their grandfather.

22:45

Was Cliff Arquette. Cliff Arquette,

22:48

who was known on Hollywood

22:50

Squares as Charlie Weaver. Charlie

22:52

Weaver. No, throughout his career as

22:55

Charlie Weaver. I met him when I was 18. There

22:58

was a radio show called The Autolight Show. He

23:01

played Dick Hames' mother. He

23:04

would do the radio show in drag. He

23:10

was maybe one of the cutest devils you ever

23:12

met. I don't

23:14

know if I put it in the book. I

23:16

may have. He was single for many, many years.

23:19

There used to be, what

23:21

do they call it, a key

23:23

club? Oh, yeah, it's in the book.

23:25

He would go to key parties. I did

23:27

put it in the book. He was a swinger. Yeah. They

23:30

would go to all these different housewives. They would all

23:33

get together. And

23:36

the husband, he would hire a hooker and

23:38

take her to this thing. And

23:41

so it was supposed to be his wife. It

23:43

was the wives of these guys. So

23:46

they would throw the key in the pot. And

23:49

then he said, I screwed about every cute

23:51

girl in Redondo Beach or wherever the heck

23:53

it was. So he would take a hooker

23:55

as his wife. So it's a

23:57

page out of Joey Ross. like

24:01

that. He was the cutest guy you ever

24:03

wanted to meet and he was a very

24:05

funny man. I met all the

24:07

Arquette kids. They did a thing

24:09

over at the Wilshire Hotel. They asked me to host it

24:13

for Cliff and I did it. I

24:15

met Patricia

24:17

and David and Roseanne

24:20

who gave me the sweetest hug. I'm telling you,

24:22

I don't know her. I don't know any of

24:24

the Arquette, but that's a sweet girl. You can

24:27

tell. It's

24:30

so funny because Charlie Weaver, that

24:33

character of Charlie Weaver, was

24:35

like this sweet little bumpkin.

24:37

Oh, absolutely. He

24:41

was a devil baby of the world, let

24:43

me tell you. He was a Civil War

24:47

buff and he had this, I don't

24:51

know what it was, back in some place

24:54

in the east in Pennsylvania. He

24:56

had all these memorabilia and he would spend a

24:58

lot of time back there. He was really into

25:00

that. He was just a lovely man.

25:02

There's a piece in your book, Peter, about him leaving

25:05

the radio show in drag and then hanging

25:07

out on Hollywood Boulevard. Yeah, you've got to

25:09

remember in the old radio, you'd have to

25:11

do the show twice. If it

25:13

were eight o'clock in

25:15

New York, that meant you

25:19

did it at five o'clock here for

25:21

eight o'clock in New York and then

25:23

you'd have to repeat it at eight

25:25

o'clock in California. So you did the

25:27

show twice. They didn't record those days.

25:29

So he had like three hours and

25:31

he used to drink and he would go

25:34

out in front of CBS in drag and

25:38

try to pick up sailors, just big

25:40

facetions. They would get

25:42

these reports about this old lady. The

25:45

cops would say, it's Cliff, it's Cliff, leave

25:47

him alone. But he was a cute guy,

25:49

let me tell you. Tell

25:55

us a little bit about Wally Cox, who you also

25:57

knew as a kid. I loved Wally Cox. Do

26:00

you know how he got in the show business? Well, it's in your

26:02

book. That's how I know it. Oh,

26:04

well then, you know. But tell our listeners. Well,

26:06

his best friend, they grew up together, was Marlon

26:08

Brando. And the funny thing is,

26:10

between the two of them, Marlon was a pipsqueak.

26:13

You know, while he was a, he wrote, he

26:16

was built like, you know, a middleweight fighter,

26:18

by the way, and he had a motorcycle,

26:21

and he'd say, hey Marlon, let's go look at the

26:23

flowers. You know, it'd be that springtime. Marlon would go,

26:25

I don't know, he got, well get the fire, I

26:28

got it. So he ran the show, believe it or

26:30

not. And I first met them

26:32

in New York, when I was working with

26:34

Tommy, probably about 19, yeah,

26:36

1950, I guess. And

26:39

they were rooming together, and Marlon and

26:41

I were sort of dating the same girl, Shirley

26:45

Ballard. And so they would come up to

26:47

the apartment. That's when I first met

26:50

Marlon, but I knew Wally. And

26:53

throughout, he was never, wanted to be

26:55

in show business. He was a jeweler, really. He

26:57

could build, he could do anything. He

26:59

was just so clever, and he made

27:01

jewelry. And how they became,

27:04

they were in military school together, they grew up together

27:06

in Omaha. And then as I said, I

27:08

knew him at PSY 65, when he

27:10

was probably about 14, or 13 maybe, anyway. He

27:15

would tell these stories from the war. And

27:18

this one story was about Du Faux. He said, I got

27:21

this guy Du Faux, and he did this whole thing on

27:23

Du Faux. And he told these

27:25

stories, and they said, why

27:27

don't you go to the Village Vanguard and do

27:30

a show? Well, they went down to

27:32

the Village for one night. And

27:34

in the audience was Irving, what was

27:36

his name? Greenbaum and,

27:39

can't think of the other

27:41

guy. They were developing a show called Mr. Peepers.

27:43

Oh, Greenbaum and Fritzl. Fritzl, yeah,

27:45

Fritzl. Greenbaum and Fritzl.

27:47

Jim Fritzl. And they

27:49

were there that night. And they

27:51

had been looking for Mr. Peepers. And

27:54

out he came. They said, that's

27:56

the guy. And that was his first

27:58

job in the business. And that's how he got

28:00

into show business because of- And it's

28:03

funny because there again, Wally

28:05

Cox on camera always looked

28:08

like the ultimate nebbish. Oh,

28:11

he was, and he talked about a ladies

28:13

man. He was really a ladies man. And

28:16

he, I tell you, yeah, and he

28:18

was so sweet and he was so

28:20

extremely bright. He knew nothing about show

28:22

business. Everything about show business, you know,

28:24

I say Gregory Peck. That

28:27

was Gregory Peck. So one night we gave him

28:29

a, and so everybody knew when he said Gregory

28:31

Peck, it was wrong. So one night we gave

28:33

him, well the answer was Gregory Peck. And

28:36

he said, was Gregory Peck in there? The

28:38

consensus said, no, that's right. And

28:42

it was, it cost the guy like $800 or something. He,

28:45

of course, was the voice of underdog.

28:47

Sure. Mr. Peepers and underdog.

28:49

There's something in your book too, Peter, about

28:51

how when they were kids together, that Franklin

28:54

would come over to play with Wally and Wally

28:56

wasn't so into playing with Marlin, that

28:59

he would, that's what you put in the book, that he would pretend he

29:01

wasn't home. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

29:04

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I, you

29:06

know, I wrote the book 10 years ago,

29:08

so I would have to, you know, look

29:10

at my notes and things like that. But

29:13

incidentally, it's a pretty good book. It's sold out immediately.

29:15

Yes. And then I'm going to take

29:17

a moment to plug it. It's called Backstage with the

29:19

Original Hollywood Square. And you can't really find

29:21

it. I guess you can find it on Amazon. You found

29:23

it on Amazon. I got it on Amazon, but we're going

29:25

to plug the Kindle version. Yeah, the Kindle. I get checks

29:28

every few months from Kindle. It's

29:30

a fun read, full of stories and great pictures.

29:32

Aren't they wonderful pictures? You

29:35

know, it got reviews like

29:37

the most definitive game show

29:39

book ever written. It got wonderful reviews.

29:41

I wrote it with Adrian Armstrong, whose husband

29:44

was Bill Armstrong, who was the, one of

29:46

the original producers of Square, who wrote all

29:48

the great jokes. And unfortunately,

29:50

he drank a little too much and he

29:52

passed early, but I miss him terribly. We

29:54

became very close. And one

29:56

person you talk about that his

29:59

name is. before on the

30:01

podcast, all with the same

30:03

explanation. Hysterically

30:06

funny on stage, but

30:08

everyone hated him in person.

30:11

And that's Jackie Mason. Yeah.

30:14

You know... I

30:18

don't really know Jackie Mason, but

30:22

we had, you know, we did almost 6,000 shows

30:24

in 16 years. And

30:27

I think I asked

30:29

the guys, please don't

30:31

invite him back. I think

30:34

I did that twice out of

30:36

all the hundreds of stars we ever had. I

30:38

tell you why. He was

30:40

very good on the show, by the way, but

30:43

he brought the panel down. You know, one

30:45

guy could bring the panel. You

30:47

had nine stars. And if you

30:49

talk over questions and if you, you know,

30:51

interrupt people, it just disrupts the whole show.

30:54

And that's unfortunately what happened with Jack.

30:57

And he, you know, you ever see him on

30:59

Broadway? He's phenomenal. Oh, terrific. Very funny man. A

31:02

very funny man. But for

31:04

some reason, he just didn't work on Squares. You know, Paul

31:06

wasn't on the show for the first year. And then

31:09

he was in different cubicles, and then

31:12

he became the star of the show.

31:15

He got much more mail than I did. He

31:17

got love letters and things, and you know, I

31:19

was pretty cute those days, but Paul got all...

31:23

He got all the stuff, yeah. Now,

31:26

I remember watching Hollywood

31:29

Squares and seeing Groucho

31:31

Marx. He was on the

31:33

show. I came in one

31:35

night and there was Groucho Marx. And he

31:38

did now work for him. I

31:40

tell you how the show works. And Henny Young,

31:42

I finally got Henny on the show. And

31:44

we were shooting in Vegas. You know, I did the last year

31:47

of Squares in the Riviera. Sure. And

31:49

Gobel was my closest friend on the show.

31:51

I've known George. We were in vaudeville. We

31:55

go back so many years when nobody knew who

31:58

he was or who I was. We

32:00

loved each other. He was my neighbor. He lived around the corner and took

32:02

me two years to get him on the show I finally got him on

32:04

the show the fours. He never left and so

32:07

we had we room together on the

32:09

bottom floor of the Riviera and Henny

32:12

had bad leg. I said stay with us It's

32:14

kind of dress with us because you do five

32:16

shows and I think he actually I think he

32:18

was there for maybe ten shows Whatever and

32:21

he came in. He said, how's your show work? I said,

32:23

here's how's the show works. I'll ask you a question If

32:27

you don't have a joke just go to the or

32:29

if you have a joke just like How

32:32

many men on a hockey team about half,

32:34

you know, whatever the joke is and

32:37

just it's but up but up He

32:39

said I got it. Oh In

32:43

1928 whatever the question was

32:45

for guys who he said he sees

32:48

that these two guys these two guys

32:50

went Duck hunting and

32:52

they came to his head duck here. They

32:54

went home Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean And

32:58

then I said that I repeated as in

33:00

1928 went to another joke. Well

33:03

George fell off his chair I couldn't

33:05

get him to answer the question and I

33:07

finally had to stop tape which he was

33:10

very rare Because he would have done

33:12

a half hour, you know But

33:15

he's one of those guys that man he

33:17

made me laugh Any

33:19

young man, you know, I guess I

33:21

was so lucky I got to work

33:23

with Harry Ritz the funniest man I

33:26

think I ever saw Harry Ritz everybody

33:28

copied Harry Ritz Yeah, you say

33:30

in the book that Jerry Lewis copied a lot

33:32

from Harry. Everybody copied Harry Ritz He was the

33:34

funniest man around but I got to work with

33:36

Joe Frisco. You probably never heard of Joe Frisco

33:39

he was just one of the great comics and and I

33:43

but yeah Anyway, my life has been

33:45

you know, I work with the ready I've worked

33:47

with Sinatra I've worked I've gotten to work with

33:49

everybody that I know and I'd love I work

33:51

with Jack Benny. We did a show in 1950

33:54

together Yeah,

33:56

I toured with Bob Hope I it's

33:59

I've had this uh...

40:00

who's on first long before really before abbot

40:02

this is the wow who's on first is

40:05

no burlesque yeah yeah and the the first

40:07

film ever done on who was for a

40:09

who's on first is is uh... fill in

40:11

rags and it's out there somewhere

40:14

and uh... it's just well you know

40:18

one night we're at the laurin tarlton hotel and floor

40:20

were working somewhere and

40:23

tommy used to drink a lot and i wouldn't drink

40:25

too much i never drank too much and

40:27

fill is doing he's on and it's a

40:30

benefit he's hosting it and he's

40:32

brilliant and tommy keeps interrupting

40:34

him and uh... so

40:37

he got tommy up with him and

40:41

tommy didn't say a word and

40:43

tommy's never been funnier and that's

40:45

what i said to myself i'm

40:47

maybe i'm not that good you know because

40:50

it was it was all phil silvers what

40:52

he did with tommy was brilliant and you

40:54

know he was great and uh... you

40:57

know he was a gambler he had worked vegas

40:59

and all the money he made on television with

41:01

that high canal you know the show built

41:03

the bill co-show he blew in vegas

41:06

and Reno and wherever and uh...

41:08

go by god but i loved

41:10

him very much uh... i you know i've as

41:12

i said that was a great era there and

41:14

everybody was sort of available and i got to

41:16

work with a lot of wonderful people in my

41:18

life and tell us about knowing uncle melty you

41:20

know him since he was since you were kids

41:22

when i was a page boy i first met

41:24

his wife was

41:27

in whole idea hats with my sister and i'll

41:29

julson and Martha ray and jinx

41:31

falconberg i'm trying to think of her name uh...

41:33

it'll come to me in a second she divorced melton and

41:36

then married uh... billy rose and then

41:38

divorce billy rose and remarried melton so

41:40

i've known melton since i may be

41:43

fourteen fifteen years old and he was

41:45

always very very kind to me i

41:47

used to do a show at the old Vanderbilt

41:49

theater i paged uh... the effect fred wearing show

41:52

and was like on a thursday night and

41:54

uh... they would do with the broadcast that they do it and then

41:57

he and uh... i just had her name is

41:59

for I

58:00

remember about Gary Owens, who for

58:02

our audience was the announcer

58:04

of Live. And many other things. Yeah, but Gary

58:06

was one of the top radio guys. I'm on

58:08

Music of Your Life. I've been doing Music of

58:10

Your Life for over 20 years. You can catch

58:13

me in New York. I

58:15

have two stations in New York. I used to have 208

58:17

AM stations. Now

58:20

we're down to 36, but I'm like you guys. I'm on

58:22

the internet. Just go to musicofyourlife.com.

58:24

I'm on at 9 o'clock on the

58:26

West Coast every day for two hours and

58:28

at noon, I guess, in New York. And

58:32

I don't listen to the show. It's radio. And

58:34

I tape it right around the corner. In fact, it's

58:37

Tito Jackson's old studio. It's this mansion

58:39

right here in Encino. I've been

58:41

doing it. But Gary was

58:43

on Music of Your Life and Wyck Martindale and

58:45

all. And he was just a... And he taught

58:47

me an awful lot about radio. And

58:50

I play all big band music and all the

58:52

great singers. My thing is all 40s,

58:54

50s music, you know. And I

58:56

know everybody I talk about. I've

58:59

worked with most of the people and I

59:01

tell stories and play this music. And it's

59:03

been very successful actually for 20-some years. But

59:05

Gary was one of the top radio guys

59:08

in the country, yeah. A versatile

59:10

talent. And he did voice... He did cartoon

59:12

voice service. He was the original ghost of the voice of the

59:14

space ghost. He in what's his name? Stan...

59:19

Stan Freeberg? Stan Freeberg? Yeah,

59:22

but the other guy, the little tiny guy. Oh,

59:26

nice. Well,

59:28

anyway, they were big voiceover guys, yeah.

59:30

Stan Irwin? No. No.

59:33

No. Your audience wouldn't even know him.

59:36

You guys would know. You know how he first

59:39

met him? I was doing The Millionaire. Remember The

59:41

Millionaire? Oh, yes. Sure. He gave away a million

59:43

dollars a year. I was getting, I

59:45

think, $750 working the whole week. And

59:48

the first shot, we're all getting makeup. The

59:50

first shot, this Rolls-Royce picks up. It pulls

59:52

up. And this little tiny guy, Paul Freese.

59:55

Paul Freese. Oh, Paul Freese. The most

59:57

famous of all. Yeah, sure. Great.

1:00:00

It's all he gets out of this rolls. He's

1:00:02

in a suit. They go he sits

1:00:05

in a chair. They make up his hand They

1:00:07

make up his hand and he's got a

1:00:09

script in front of me. Well today's recipient

1:00:12

of the millionaire me and he reads

1:00:14

it gives a Marvin Miller the

1:00:16

envelope and he gets in the rolls

1:00:18

and he leaves He was paid like $2,500. I said,

1:00:21

that's what I want to do. That's good.

1:00:23

But Paul he was the millionaire But you never saw

1:00:25

him. Why you saw it was a hand the

1:00:27

hand in the envelope Oh, he did

1:00:30

millions of movies all free. Yeah He was

1:00:32

so big that he wouldn't go to a

1:00:34

studio. You would have to go. He would

1:00:36

finally lived up in San

1:00:39

Francisco you would have to fly to his

1:00:41

studio to record him That's

1:00:44

how big he was You

1:00:46

know Orson Welles didn't want to do the wine commercial

1:00:49

So he did it and he sounded just like Orson

1:00:51

Welles. Oh, he looped Orson Welles

1:00:54

He was on radio. That's great. He was on

1:00:56

radio so

1:01:01

Something suddenly before its time remember that

1:01:03

Paul Masson. Yeah Well,

1:01:08

the morse or so well started doing it

1:01:10

himself because he's out of all this money

1:01:13

Paul Freese could do anybody

1:01:16

he was brilliant. Yeah, we

1:01:18

will return to Gilbert Gottfried's

1:01:20

amazing Colossal podcast but first

1:01:22

a word from our sponsor Tell

1:01:26

us about I was telling Gilbert this from the book

1:01:28

and it's a fun a fun story And I believe

1:01:30

you have this framed in your house is a letter

1:01:32

from from John Wayne a threatening letter. He's gonna beat

1:01:34

me up I

1:01:38

got this letter from John Wayne and it goes on and

1:01:40

on and the question was according

1:01:42

to Rona Barrett What

1:01:44

did John Wayne's children call him and

1:01:47

the answer was sir well, he took

1:01:49

umbers to that and wrote me this he's gonna beat me up

1:01:51

and I have

1:01:53

to do it on the air of to

1:01:55

apologize and if not, I've

1:01:58

got that. It's one of my prized possessions. Yeah I

1:02:00

have it in my house and I have it framed

1:02:03

with John's picture and guns all around

1:02:05

it. I

1:02:07

don't have a recording unfortunately,

1:02:09

but I once

1:02:11

did a joke about Marlon

1:02:13

Brando on Hollywood Squares and

1:02:16

Whoopi Goldberg received an angry

1:02:18

phone call from Marlon Brando.

1:02:20

There you go. People

1:02:24

watch the show? Yes. I

1:02:28

also have to ask you about

1:02:30

another fun Squares question that's in

1:02:32

the book, Peter. Did you, Rosemarie,

1:02:35

Paul Lynn, Karen, Valentine and Annette

1:02:37

Fabray all go to a topless

1:02:39

bar? We did. It

1:02:42

wasn't a topless bar. It was a nude place. I

1:02:44

mean everybody was nude. One nude bar. Excuse

1:02:46

me. It just opened in bed eyes and now

1:02:49

we're doing Squares and I said, hey, this nude

1:02:51

place is just open. Let's all

1:02:53

go. So

1:02:55

it was Rosemarie and Paul and I

1:02:57

was very close to Charles Nelson Riley.

1:03:00

It was Charlie, Nanette

1:03:02

Fabray. Love her. And all

1:03:04

of us, we went. And

1:03:07

they had not only nude, 18-year-old

1:03:09

nude dancers, they had

1:03:11

these graphic movies showing on the wall. And

1:03:15

after about eight minutes I said, you know,

1:03:17

something isn't really, it was boring. So

1:03:20

we left. About three minutes after

1:03:22

we left, it was raided. That

1:03:25

had been wonderful to have us all in jail. Paul

1:03:28

Lynn in jail for in

1:03:30

a nude bar and Rosemarie

1:03:32

and Karen Valentine and Nanette

1:03:34

Fabray. I was, oh, I laughed

1:03:37

so hard. I said, that would have been so

1:03:39

much fun. It was raided about three

1:03:41

minutes after we left. Yeah. I

1:03:43

love that one. One night. Yeah. We

1:03:47

had a lot of fun on that show. And then some. Now

1:03:50

I was surprised to hear that

1:03:53

the great character actor, Sid

1:03:56

Gould. Sid

1:03:58

Gould? Did you love Sid Gould? Do

1:04:00

you know that he once did an act with Ralph

1:04:03

Young? Remember Sandler and Young? Sure. Oh,

1:04:05

yes. Yeah. We saw

1:04:07

that on Cliff Nesteroff's website. We still want to

1:04:09

get Tony Young on this show. No, no, Ralph

1:04:11

Young and Tony Sandler. Tony Sandler. Tony Sandler, Ralph

1:04:14

Young. Yeah, we want to get him on this

1:04:16

show. No, you can get

1:04:18

Tony to Ralph's blog. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

1:04:21

right. If you get Ralph, let me know. I'd love to see him

1:04:23

again. He

1:04:26

was my production singer at the... I

1:04:28

used to play the Latin Quarter maybe for

1:04:30

15 years in New York. I had

1:04:32

to play with Newton and Marshall and Marshall and Ferrell. We'd play it up

1:04:34

a couple of months a year. I don't

1:04:36

know if it's in the book. Did I ever tell you

1:04:39

the Sophie Tucker story? Oh, no. We

1:04:41

were going to ask you about it. It's on my card. You

1:04:43

did the Sullivan Show with Sophie Tucker, didn't you?

1:04:45

No, I was working the Latin Quarter. Oh, the

1:04:47

Latin Quarter. Yeah. And I

1:04:49

was there three months, whether it said Sophie Tucker

1:04:51

and Newton and Marshall, or maybe we could have

1:04:53

been Marshall and... Whatever.

1:04:56

Marshall and Ferrell. In the three months, all she

1:04:58

ever said to me was, okay, that

1:05:00

was about it. She

1:05:02

was just mean and I tell you. Well,

1:05:06

I don't know what the... One

1:05:09

of the dancers did something.

1:05:11

He may have done a crossover in front

1:05:13

of her, but she tried to get him

1:05:15

fired. And Ed Rissiad, who

1:05:17

ran the Latin Quarter, wouldn't do it, of course. But

1:05:21

she had him... I don't know what... But he

1:05:23

was very upset. This is a

1:05:25

true story. He came in the

1:05:27

next night with a Sophie Tucker doll. He

1:05:30

made a voodoo doll. And

1:05:32

in front of all of us, in front

1:05:34

of all of us, this is true, he

1:05:36

took a needle and he stuck

1:05:38

it into her left hip. Now

1:05:42

not a week later, not three,

1:05:44

but an hour later, she's

1:05:46

coming down to steps at the Latin Quarter.

1:05:49

She falls and breaks her left hip. And

1:05:52

I go, never screw with a dancer in

1:05:54

the show. Never

1:05:56

cross a dancer. With the

1:05:59

gypsies, leave them alone. That's a true story.

1:06:01

I was there. I saw that. That's my

1:06:03

Sophie Tucker story. Wow. And

1:06:05

then she would go after the thing. She would sell books,

1:06:07

you know, for charity. Of course, she kept all the money.

1:06:10

She was something. There's

1:06:16

so many people we could ask you about, Peter,

1:06:18

as we wind this down. And there's so many

1:06:20

questions. And we could talk to you for hours.

1:06:22

And you're such a great sport. I don't know

1:06:25

what to ask you about. Sammy, Jonathan Winters, your

1:06:28

buddy. Sammy started, that was

1:06:30

our opening act, the Will Mastin Trio.

1:06:32

Paid him $7.50 a week. New

1:06:35

England Marshals opening act, yeah. How about that,

1:06:37

Gil? Yeah. Will Mastin Trio? Do

1:06:39

you know what they used to give Sammy? Will?

1:06:41

Will? They'd give him $8 a week. And his

1:06:45

teeth were going bad. So I took him to my

1:06:47

dentist, Dr. Gamble, and got his teeth fixed. Yeah,

1:06:50

I go back a long time. You know, for when he

1:06:52

became famous, it was a long time

1:06:54

he didn't speak to me. And I couldn't figure out

1:06:56

why. And now I'm in

1:06:58

London. There's this wonderful private club that all the

1:07:00

actors belong to, and I'm with Cheetah and a

1:07:02

bunch of us. And I'm at the bar,

1:07:05

and he comes over to me. He was living in

1:07:07

London at the time. He comes

1:07:09

over to me and he said, hey, man, I'm sorry. And I

1:07:12

looked at him and I said, you little shit, you

1:07:14

should be sorry. You know, I

1:07:16

don't know why he didn't talk to me. I

1:07:19

have no idea. How strange. I never do

1:07:21

anything. I loved him. He was

1:07:24

like family to me. I just loved him.

1:07:27

So Sammy Davis, you

1:07:29

helped out. You fixed

1:07:31

his teeth. Everybody hates. There are many

1:07:33

people that helped me out. In the

1:07:35

old days, that's what we did. We

1:07:37

each helped everybody. We wouldn't steal material.

1:07:40

If we were in a club and say we're

1:07:42

at Eddie's in Kansas City, and

1:07:44

we'd say to the Eddie brothers, hey, there was a great

1:07:46

act. You know, we had

1:07:48

plugged each other. We helped each other. It

1:07:50

was a family affair in the old days.

1:07:53

Yeah. Not as crazy as it is today.

1:07:55

I wouldn't want to be young

1:07:57

and and try to fight

1:07:59

the battle today. And what

1:08:01

was Vincent Price like? The best.

1:08:04

I knew him since I was 18. As I said, Dick

1:08:08

Ames was the number one guy over at Fox, and

1:08:10

he was on the contract at Fox. And

1:08:12

I first met Vincent when I was 18. And he was another

1:08:16

devil baby.

1:08:19

And he was just, we took cruises

1:08:21

together, you know? He and Carl, Carl

1:08:23

Brown, he married this

1:08:27

wonderful English actress. And we took cruises

1:08:29

together, and we were close.

1:08:32

He was a wonderful man. There's a salacious story in your

1:08:35

book, and can I bring it up? Of

1:08:37

course. With your ex-wife and Carl

1:08:40

Brown and Vinnie, and

1:08:42

Vincent Price said to you, Oh yes, we

1:08:44

were on a cruise. And it was

1:08:48

Carl, I think, that said to Sally,

1:08:51

she said, you know, you, Vinnie,

1:08:54

and myself have made a lovely trio.

1:08:56

And Sally laughed a lot. To his

1:08:58

wife. She

1:09:02

actually, I've just been, I've had a wonderful

1:09:04

offer. Now,

1:09:06

did you ever work with Jerry Lewis? I've

1:09:10

opened for Jerry many times, yeah. When I put

1:09:12

my act together in 1977, I put an act

1:09:14

with five kids, very

1:09:17

successfully. We worked continually for

1:09:19

about 11 years, called the Chapter

1:09:21

Five. Monica Manstein, he was my lead singer. I

1:09:23

needed a break-in date. And Joey

1:09:25

Stabile, Dick Stabile's brother, was his manager.

1:09:28

And I needed a break-in date

1:09:31

because we had a date at the Flamingo. We

1:09:33

ended for four weeks, for Bill Miller, a wonderful

1:09:35

man. And Jerry heard about

1:09:37

it. And he called and said, I'm at, I'm

1:09:39

here at the South Door Theater. I'll be here

1:09:42

a week. I need an opening act. I've only

1:09:44

got 9,000, but

1:09:46

you are welcome to come. And

1:09:49

we came in. It was, what a great

1:09:52

break, because we broke in the act. We

1:09:54

opened the Flamingo. I got a five-year deal

1:09:56

with Suma, you know, with Howard Jesus. Jerry,

1:10:00

I opened for at the Sahara many

1:10:02

times and other places, and

1:10:06

he was wonderful to me. You hear

1:10:08

these stories? He was wonderful to

1:10:10

my singers. I don't have a bad thing

1:10:12

to say about Jerry Lewis. Wow. That's

1:10:15

good to hear. And you made a movie with

1:10:18

Art Carney and Lucy. I

1:10:20

did. Yeah. You could

1:10:23

probably get that on the, it was a

1:10:25

television movie called Happy Anniversary

1:10:27

and Goodbye. Right. We

1:10:30

talk about Art Carney on this show. He's a

1:10:32

favorite of Gilbert's and mine. What can you tell

1:10:34

us about him? Well, I was offered the movie,

1:10:36

and I turned it down. I

1:10:38

had worked with Lucy on The Lucy Show. I

1:10:40

played her brother-in-law with

1:10:42

the great Janet Waldo, the great

1:10:45

radio actress, played my wife. And

1:10:48

it was the time of the Cuban crisis, and

1:10:50

I have four kids. I'm just worried about where

1:10:52

I'm going to hide them. And

1:10:55

they're worried about the show. And Lucy wasn't very nice

1:10:57

to me. In fact, she was

1:10:59

awful to me. And

1:11:03

I must say, after the show, she knocked on my door, she said,

1:11:05

you were wonderful on the show. And they offered

1:11:07

me 13 shows. And

1:11:09

I turned it down. And I needed the job. I just

1:11:11

didn't want to work with her. So many years later, I'm

1:11:13

doing squares, and I'm kind of hot. And

1:11:16

they called me and said, hey,

1:11:18

Lucy wants you for this movie called Happy

1:11:21

Anniversary and Goodbye. I said, no,

1:11:23

I don't want to do this movie. I don't want to work

1:11:25

with that woman. So

1:11:27

they called me back about,

1:11:29

oh gosh, two days later.

1:11:32

And her husband at

1:11:35

the time said, are you

1:11:37

nuts? Everybody

1:11:40

in this town, every young guy wants this part.

1:11:42

I said, I don't want to work with your wife. And

1:11:45

he said, you don't have any seeds with my wife. All your

1:11:47

seeds are with Art Carney. I

1:11:49

said, I'll do it for scale. And

1:11:53

I admit Art Carney, but I never worked with him.

1:11:57

And I got to work with Art Carney. Now

1:11:59

we're doing the REITs. You do a read-through."

1:12:01

I said, have you ever worked with Lucille

1:12:03

Ball before? He said, no. He said,

1:12:05

I'm really excited about it. I said, you'll quit. He

1:12:08

said, I'm not going to quit. Well,

1:12:11

we're doing the read-through. She said, that's a terrible reading.

1:12:14

He thought she was kidding. And

1:12:16

she starts criticizing his read. Well,

1:12:18

he quits. So he goes,

1:12:20

I grab him. And I said, you

1:12:22

can't do this to me. All right. The only

1:12:24

reason I'm doing this damn thing is because of

1:12:27

you. It's the only reason I'm doing

1:12:29

it. Well, the next day,

1:12:31

so he came back the next day,

1:12:33

Nanette Fabre, she quits. Now, Art Mirer,

1:12:35

Nanette Fabre. Actually,

1:12:40

he became very close to Lucille. She

1:12:43

was strange. I

1:12:46

guess socially, I was never socially with her. They

1:12:49

say she was lovely. But to

1:12:51

work with her, she was a tough old broad. And

1:12:54

what people do, and she has such

1:12:56

nice kids. I mean, Lucy, young

1:12:59

Lucy is just wonderful. I

1:13:01

don't know her son too well. Didn't she

1:13:03

show up on the set of squares complaining?

1:13:06

Yes. She wanted more

1:13:09

things and she wanted him to have his own square.

1:13:12

Then he was Desi and Bobby and Fred. I

1:13:14

don't know what that was. Desi, Dino and Billy.

1:13:16

There you go. Yeah. She wanted his own square.

1:13:18

Yeah, and they were all in one square. They

1:13:20

were all in one square. But

1:13:22

she was there every show. Well, she came, boy,

1:13:24

she was there. She was a good

1:13:26

mama. And yeah, but that

1:13:29

was my story. I

1:13:31

can remember, Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's his first

1:13:34

part. Oh, that's right. I've

1:13:36

seen the clip. Yeah. First thing he did. He's

1:13:39

a masseuse. He's a masseuse. Right. And he

1:13:41

comes in, he's as big as a house,

1:13:44

and he has one line or something. And

1:13:47

Art Cardi ad lib this. We did it in front of an audience.

1:13:49

You know, they do it live. He walks

1:13:51

in and he sees this guy and

1:13:53

then he leaves it. Then he says

1:13:55

goodbye to Lucille Schwarzenegger.

1:14:00

He says, ìEté, Brute!î Thereís one story

1:14:02

in the book. Now,

1:14:08

I know you wrote the book over 13 years ago,

1:14:10

Peter, but Iím going to jog your memory on this

1:14:12

one. Diana Dors. Do you

1:14:14

know the story Iím referring to? A real name? Yeah.

1:14:18

Yeah. You know, I just

1:14:20

did a thing with her son. We

1:14:23

just shot a thing with

1:14:25

Alex Trebek. Heís the special for Canada,

1:14:28

and he did a special on

1:14:30

all the game show hosts. And

1:14:32

his son is the director, and thatís

1:14:35

Diane Eddings. Dickey

1:14:37

Dawson. Right. She was

1:14:39

Richard Dawsonís wife. Yeah. And

1:14:41

I said, ìWhoís your mom?î He said,

1:14:43

ìDiana Dors.î And thereís a story that

1:14:45

goes, I wasnít there, but the story

1:14:47

is, her real name is Diana

1:14:49

Fluck. Thatís the

1:14:52

real name. Thatís

1:14:54

the real name. Diane Fluck.

1:14:56

Thatís her real name. And the guy,

1:14:58

it was in England, the guy was

1:15:00

very nervous about Fluck. And

1:15:02

he said, ìHere she is, Diane Clunt.î

1:15:04

Now, I donít know if thatís a

1:15:07

true story, but

1:15:14

itís a funny story. I find that one

1:15:16

in the book. Itís too

1:15:18

good. I took a post-it and put it right

1:15:21

on that story. I said, ìGilbert will like that one.î Hey,

1:15:24

Gilbert, you got to read the book. Itís a good

1:15:26

read. Yeah. And this

1:15:28

one story here that

1:15:30

we have to shoehorn in here, that

1:15:33

Glenn Ford, when he was on

1:15:36

the show, one of the questions

1:15:38

had to do with silk stockings.

1:15:41

Yeah. And I

1:15:44

thinkódo you remember what Glenn Ford

1:15:46

said? I thinkówe told it. Did

1:15:49

we open the book? No, we were off mic then. Oh, yeah.

1:15:52

So weíre going to repeat it. Yeah,

1:15:54

you repeat the story, though. Well, you had said

1:15:56

in the book that you always triedóhe was afraid

1:15:58

of looking ató He was insecure and he was

1:16:00

afraid of looking dumb. So you always

1:16:03

asked him questions about things he knew. You always

1:16:05

played to his strengths. Yeah, that's true. So he

1:16:07

had questions about guns in the military and westerns.

1:16:09

Yeah. But at one point you asked him a

1:16:12

question about women's stockings. Oh yeah. Should

1:16:15

they be kept in the freezer? Correct. Yeah.

1:16:18

And he said, go

1:16:21

ahead. I forget. He said, how the hell should

1:16:24

I know? Ask

1:16:26

Vincent Price. Ask Cesar Romero. Cesar

1:16:28

Romero. Cesar

1:16:37

Romero's name has popped up several times

1:16:39

in this podcast. There's another sweet man.

1:16:41

In fact, you know how old he

1:16:43

would have been today. He said to

1:16:46

me once, he was so

1:16:48

sad. I said, what's wrong with you? He

1:16:51

said, I'm going to be 60 today. He

1:16:54

said, I'm 60 years old today. I said, what's wrong with

1:16:56

that? You look great. He said, yeah, but

1:16:58

in 10 years I'm going to be 70. We

1:17:02

played a, I did a fantasy island where

1:17:04

we were, I was married to

1:17:07

Jane Powell and she

1:17:10

was having an affair with Cesar Romero.

1:17:14

Butch Romero. Butch. That's what

1:17:16

we all call him. Butch. And

1:17:19

a nicer man never lived. Well,

1:17:22

I tell you, the old guys, they were all the,

1:17:25

they were the best. I think we all

1:17:27

came out of poverty and we just appreciated what we

1:17:29

had, you know. You've

1:17:31

had a charmed run, Peter. You've had a

1:17:33

wonderful, the people you've worked with. It's my

1:17:35

75th year doing this stuff, you know. Yeah,

1:17:37

congratulations. Thank you. The book is

1:17:39

terrific. Thank you. I wish you could buy it.

1:17:42

I wish I could get some kind of

1:17:44

a royalty out of it. Our fans will

1:17:47

find it. And Ken, you're still working. I

1:17:49

am. I've still got the Music

1:17:51

of Your Life and, oh, what a cute story.

1:17:53

I just worked the Cerritos, which

1:17:55

is a beautiful performing

1:17:57

arts center. I do big bands. concerts.

1:18:00

I just worked with the Tex Medici band. Tex is no

1:18:02

longer with us, but the band is. And

1:18:05

we did very well. So my manager

1:18:07

of, she's only been

1:18:09

with me 60-some years, Gloria Burke.

1:18:11

We've been together forever. And her

1:18:14

birthday is next week. She's

1:18:16

going to be 90. Anyway, she calls. She says, hey,

1:18:18

the Cerritos want you back. And

1:18:20

they want you with the Benny Goodman band.

1:18:22

In March, this is like six weeks ago,

1:18:25

I said, well, hey, that's pretty good. That's

1:18:27

really soon. She said, no, March 2017. I

1:18:31

said, if I can remember my name

1:18:33

or a lyric, I'll show up, you know. You

1:18:38

look great to us. You look like you're in fine

1:18:40

fettle. I am in fine fettle. And I still work.

1:18:42

I still guard. And I say, well, goo. I got

1:18:44

the most wonderful wife of the

1:18:46

world. I got 12 grandkids. I got

1:18:48

seven great grandkids. And my

1:18:51

life is just about as good as you can get.

1:18:53

This is something I was going to say. It's like

1:18:56

anyone listening to this show knows your

1:18:58

voice sounds exactly the same. Yeah. We

1:19:00

grew up on the squares, and your

1:19:02

voice hasn't changed at all. No, it

1:19:05

hasn't. I'm singing better than I've ever

1:19:07

sung in my life. Don't ask me

1:19:09

why. The other night when they had

1:19:11

my birthday, they had me singing with

1:19:14

Dionne Warwick. They had me sing with Dinah from

1:19:17

the Gordon Jenkins thing and then other

1:19:19

stuff. And I

1:19:22

never would watch my stuff. I would

1:19:24

look at them. This sounds awful. But

1:19:27

I said, that's pretty good. That's pretty

1:19:29

good. And I got to

1:19:31

say, we're both looking at you now.

1:19:34

And we're not looking at a

1:19:36

90 year old man. We're

1:19:38

looking at Peter Marshall. You

1:19:40

look the same. You look terrific. We're not

1:19:42

blowing smoke up your spirit. Good. You

1:19:45

can buy my CDs. My CDs

1:19:47

are for sale. Go ahead and plug them. I

1:19:49

just did a CD that's kind of nice.

1:19:51

It's called Let's Be Frag with a Touch

1:19:54

of Tommy, where I recreated the Pied Piper's

1:19:56

Joe Stafford. But

1:19:58

taking all the old songs and Redoing

1:20:00

them completely doing them as

1:20:03

they might have been done today So

1:20:06

it's called let's be frank with the touch that I have

1:20:08

a CD that did really well.

1:20:10

It's still out there It's called boy singer. What

1:20:12

are you guys reading? You're reading something We

1:20:15

got a note and we're gonna add we're gonna put

1:20:17

you on the spot since we're talking about your singing

1:20:19

We're gonna ask you to if you could just crew

1:20:22

in a couple of bars of something for us Maybe

1:20:24

from bye-bye birdie your choice Grace

1:20:26

guys are gonna clear up put

1:20:28

on a happy face Brush

1:20:31

off the clouds and cheer up. Hey

1:20:33

put on a happy face Take

1:20:36

off that gloomy mask of tragedy. It's

1:20:38

not your side. There you go. I

1:20:41

love it So

1:20:46

not only is your speaking voice the same

1:20:48

but your singing voice it is it's exactly

1:20:51

the same I looked at the other night

1:20:53

and I'd laughed. I said my god that

1:20:55

was 40 years ago Wow,

1:20:57

fantastic. And the last

1:20:59

thing we're gonna ask and this is completely

1:21:02

off the reservation Okay, we talk about somebody

1:21:04

on this show. He was better known by

1:21:06

the name crazy Guggenheim Oh, yeah, Frankie. You're

1:21:08

a teen. We work with Frankie Fontaine. We

1:21:11

worked the Billy Grace Bambox And

1:21:13

so it was our first big job. Yeah, I Paulie Bergen

1:21:15

got us the job Paulie Bergen

1:21:17

was singing a little joint used

1:21:19

to be very PI hack at work that Go

1:21:22

everybody worked Billy Grace Bambox. What a beautiful

1:21:24

little club It was a Jewish club and

1:21:27

we were about as goyim as you could get, you know And

1:21:31

Paulie said there was an opening and she said

1:21:33

the max gold she said hey these two guys

1:21:35

are working down on Slauson they would be a

1:21:38

big hit here and we went in for one

1:21:40

night and stayed 16 weeks Wow,

1:21:42

and that was the beginning of

1:21:44

Paulie Paulie got us that job and She

1:21:47

was a country singer in those day. But

1:21:50

her opening song was honky-tonk at home. Okay,

1:21:52

Tonkin. I'm just she was a country singer

1:21:54

I remember Paulie Bergen. Did you know that

1:21:56

girl? Sigur

1:21:59

I remember in Oh, my God. She

1:22:01

wanted a life with it. She

1:22:03

was really very close to Rex Reed. I'm

1:22:05

close to Rex, and they were like brother

1:22:07

and sister, really. He

1:22:09

adored her. But

1:22:12

Frankie Fontaine came in with us. They would

1:22:14

use, there would be like six acts.

1:22:16

It would be Robert Maxwell,

1:22:18

who wrote Eptide and Shangri-La. He played the harp.

1:22:21

And I'd be the emcee. This is a true

1:22:23

story. This is

1:22:25

when Reagan became president.

1:22:27

I was a little anxious about it.

1:22:31

I used to emcee the show, and Tommy

1:22:33

would heckle me. And I

1:22:35

would say, now, ladies and gentlemen, he would say, you're

1:22:37

a damn good-looking fellow. I mean, you're damn good-looking. I'd

1:22:39

say, thank you very much, sir. And I

1:22:41

would go on, and then

1:22:43

he would do other stuff. But he kept,

1:22:46

you're damn good-looking. Well, finally, after about three

1:22:48

acts, it was our turn. And I would

1:22:50

say something about Pittsburgh. I do a baseball.

1:22:52

He said, I'm from Pittsburgh. I'm from Pittsburgh.

1:22:55

He got up, and he walked up on

1:22:57

stage. And the guy sitting in the front

1:22:59

grabbed him and said, young man, I've taken

1:23:02

just about enough of this I can take.

1:23:04

This man has been working hard all night.

1:23:06

And it was Ronald Reagan. Wow.

1:23:09

Oh, my god. Whoa. He was the only guy

1:23:12

that didn't know. Ha ha

1:23:14

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

1:23:16

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. So

1:23:18

when he became president, I went, OK, all right.

1:23:20

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

1:23:22

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

1:23:24

ha. Good stuff. But the funny thing

1:23:26

is, he and Newton became very close friends. Reagan

1:23:29

and Newton. Well,

1:23:31

you're one of those guests

1:23:34

that we could go another 20 hours

1:23:36

with and not touch upon. You're also one

1:23:39

of those guests that makes the interview easy,

1:23:41

because you do all the work. Oh, yes.

1:23:45

So this has

1:23:48

been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing

1:23:50

Colossal Podcast with my

1:23:52

co-host, Frank Santopadre, at

1:23:55

Nutmeg Post with our engineer,

1:23:58

Frank Verdeross. Thank

1:24:00

you, Frankie. And

1:24:02

the great Peter Marshall.

1:24:05

Well, thank you, guys. Peter, it's been a treat.

1:24:07

Give us your plugs one more time. The radio

1:24:09

show. Radio show, Music of the Life. Just on

1:24:11

two hours in the morning, and they repeated it

1:24:14

at night. Nine on the west, so I guess

1:24:16

it's 12 in the east. And Boy

1:24:18

Singer, you can get. No happy endings. A thing

1:24:20

called Let's Be Frank with a Touch of Tommy.

1:24:23

You can buy them all through... And

1:24:26

they're pretty good, guys. They're really... We're

1:24:28

gonna get them and listen. Well, if you

1:24:30

like Dick Hames or Sinatra or Bob Eberly,

1:24:32

that whole era, I think you like what

1:24:34

I do. And once more, the book,

1:24:36

Backstage with the Original Hollywood Square. And it

1:24:38

comes, I must say, this is interesting, it

1:24:41

comes with a CD. It does.

1:24:43

It comes with a CD of your favorite jokes

1:24:45

from the show, your favorite zingers. You'll hear, everybody

1:24:47

ever heard on those zingers. That was a big...

1:24:49

That record sold a fortune, but I didn't know

1:24:52

that that was Heida Quigley, who gave me the

1:24:54

permission to put it in the book. We

1:24:57

barely scratched the surface of this man's career. And

1:25:00

as someone who is a later

1:25:02

regular on Hollywood Squares in

1:25:05

the 2000 years, I

1:25:07

bow down to you, sir. Well, thank you, Gilbert. That's

1:25:09

so sweet of you. And I love your work. I

1:25:11

really do. Oh, thank you. Well, Peter, there's

1:25:13

a clip online of Gilbert you should check out of him

1:25:16

on the most recent version of

1:25:18

Hollywood Squares. Oh, really? Just look up

1:25:20

Gilbert Gottfried Hollywood Squares and...

1:25:23

You fool. You fool. Yes. Gilbert

1:25:26

Gottfried Hollywood Squares, you fool? You

1:25:28

fool. You'll love it. Okay. We'll

1:25:30

do that right now. Yeah. It's going to be a

1:25:32

good laugh for you. And thanks so much,

1:25:34

buddy. My pleasure. Thank you, Peter Marshall.

1:25:36

Good luck, guys.