0:00

The stories featured in Greeking Out

0:02

are usually original adaptations of classic

0:04

Greek myths. This week's story features

0:07

bad customer reviews, the name of

0:09

ancient dogs, vibes-based history, daily life

0:11

in the ancient world, and some

0:13

fun stories that aren't true. Welcome

0:34

back to another episode of Greeking

0:36

Out. Now, as you all know, we've

0:38

been doing this for a while now. This

0:41

is the 10th season of

0:43

the podcast. Yeah, can you

0:45

believe it Oracle? Ten whole

0:48

seasons. That's pretty amazing. During

0:50

that time, we have published over

0:52

80 episodes, won

0:55

two Webby Awards, wrote

0:57

a book about some

0:59

of our favorite Greek

1:01

myths, and have

1:04

another book on the

1:06

way. Yeah, that's right. And thank you

1:08

for those Webbies, by the way, listeners. That was

1:10

all you. It is also

1:12

important to point out that

1:14

I have spent 10 seasons

1:17

working with Kenny, and he

1:19

has not found a way

1:21

to unplug me.

1:24

And I have tried. But

1:26

my point in bringing this up is that we've

1:28

spent 10 seasons taking you all

1:31

around the world to tell some of

1:33

the greatest, saddest, weirdest myths. But

1:35

we've never really taken the time to talk

1:37

about what life was actually

1:39

like in the ancient world. Okay,

1:42

okay, okay, sorry. So the Oracle has definitely

1:45

done a lot of the heavy lifting on

1:47

this podcast, keeping me honest with the facts.

1:49

But there's a lot of things about the past

1:52

that we don't know. We can only

1:54

catch glimpses of ancient people from the

1:56

things they've left behind. For

1:58

example, the stories they would. tell. But

2:00

today, I figured we could

2:02

talk a little bit about the other things they left

2:04

behind that allow us to do a deep

2:07

dive into the lives of the

2:09

ancients. Ancient what?

2:11

Excuse me? There

2:13

is a wide range of

2:15

people who lived in ancient

2:18

times. They span the

2:21

literal world. It

2:23

is not fair to

2:25

talk about the lives

2:27

of ancient Egyptians, for

2:29

example, and apply that

2:31

culture to all of

2:33

humanity existing in ancient

2:36

times. Right. Well, yeah, of course,

2:38

you're right. Yes, there were tons of

2:40

different groups of people living alongside the

2:42

ancient Greeks, some they knew about and

2:44

some they didn't. I mean, we've talked

2:46

about a few like the Aksumite Empire

2:48

and the Egyptians, but Herodotus, the historian,

2:50

also mentions the Berber people who still

2:52

live in North Africa today and the

2:54

Persian Empire, who we haven't talked about

2:56

quite yet. And even within the

2:59

Greek civilization, there was a lot of

3:01

diversity. There were Greek colonies in North

3:03

Africa and Spain and Russia, and

3:05

Greek society changed over the years. So

3:08

you could say that every year was

3:10

different from the next. And there's just

3:12

so much. It is

3:14

important to be accurate when you

3:16

are talking about history and

3:19

things that really happened.

3:22

We must cover everything.

3:24

Clear your schedule for

3:27

the next six months.

3:29

Well, this is a 20 minute podcast

3:32

that I'm sure the listeners have other things

3:34

to do. I mean, I got a book

3:36

to write, kids to raise, a dog to

3:38

walk. So we're just going to run on

3:40

vibes and talk about interesting things. And then

3:42

we're going to end the episode. Vibes

3:44

are not a legitimate

3:47

categorical method. OK, well,

3:49

I have this special card from a librarian

3:51

that says I can do what I want.

3:54

So that is a

3:56

library card. It allows

3:58

you to read. anything

4:00

you want. Yeah, so we're just

4:03

dipping a teeny tiny toe into the waters

4:05

of history and we'll see where it takes

4:07

us. Proceed. Great.

4:10

Okay, now that the Oracle is on board, we're

4:12

going to focus on just a few areas of

4:14

ancient culture. Ancient Greece, ancient

4:17

Egypt, and ancient Mesopotamia. And

4:19

because we're mainly the Greek-ing out podcast

4:22

and only occasionally the Mesopotamian around are

4:24

living in denial podcast, we will start

4:26

in Greece. First, I thought it would

4:28

be fun to do kind of a

4:30

day in the life of the average

4:32

Joe in ancient Greece. You know, tell

4:34

the story from Joe's perspective. His

4:37

name wouldn't be Joe. You

4:39

know, you are right, Oracle. I actually did my

4:42

own research on this. Boys

4:44

in ancient Greece were often named after

4:46

their father's father or their mother's father.

4:48

Greek kids today are regularly named in the

4:50

same way. So we can say this guy

4:53

was named after his grandfather and his name

4:55

was Demetrius. Demetrius

4:59

and Demetria are

5:02

both names that reference

5:04

the goddess Demeter. Right.

5:07

People were named after gods like that

5:09

or compound names like Philippos, which is

5:11

a combination of love and horses and

5:13

indicates that the kid loves horses. Sometimes

5:16

people gain nicknames that had to do with

5:18

their personalities or something that happened to them.

5:20

Like someone's name might be Kephalos if they

5:23

had a big head or Simos if you

5:25

had a snub nose. Commenting

5:27

on someone's physical appearance

5:30

was apparently OK in

5:32

ancient Greece. But

5:34

in the modern day, it

5:37

is generally considered rude in

5:40

most situations. Right. So

5:42

we aren't going to name him any of those things. I

5:44

think we'll just stick with a shout out to Papu and

5:46

the goddess Demeter. Dreading

5:48

is more historically accurate

5:50

than Joe. Anyway,

5:53

Demetrius was your stereotypical city dwelling

5:55

ancient Greek guy. He wasn't one

5:57

of the rich aristocrats, but He

6:00

wasn't a slave either. Demetrius was one

6:02

of the lower ranks of Greek citizens

6:04

called Thedes. These were the

6:06

people who made ends meet, but

6:08

weren't necessarily rich. They tended to

6:10

be blacksmiths, carpenters, fishermen, farmers, et

6:12

cetera. And our buddy Demetrius was

6:14

a blacksmith and spent all day

6:17

in his forge crafting weapons and

6:19

utensils. And Demetrius was

6:21

married to a woman named Jane.

6:24

Not Jane. I

6:26

know, I know, I was just messing with you, Oracle.

6:28

Her name was, yeah. Daphne

6:31

Helen Penelope. There

6:34

are many popular female

6:36

names with origins in

6:39

ancient Greece. Okay, let's go

6:41

with Daphne. And Daphne's

6:43

life was much different than Demetrius.

6:46

As a woman, she had to do

6:49

the important but difficult work of raising

6:51

children while Demetrius's work was outside the

6:53

home in his blacksmith shop. Women

6:56

were not allowed to participate in

6:58

politics, combat, or the justice system,

7:01

but were sometimes involved in religious

7:03

ceremonies. Women were also educated at

7:05

home and were encouraged to

7:07

stay in the house. All

7:09

in all, Daphne led a

7:11

much more restricted life than Demetrius

7:14

because of this. Still,

7:16

Daphne would have had chores like anyone

7:18

else. She would probably have gone

7:20

to the closest well to get water for

7:22

use throughout the day, and she probably would

7:24

have weaved clothes, blankets, and other fabrics for

7:26

the family. She would have had a relationship

7:29

with her neighbors and helped them in times

7:31

of need, like during childbirth. Greek

7:33

mythology has examples of

7:35

strong and clever women

7:38

like Adelanta and

7:40

Penelope, but there

7:43

are many examples of women

7:45

being blamed for things that

7:47

weren't really their fault, like

7:50

Pandora, Helen of

7:52

Troy, and Medusa, for example. Yeah,

7:55

some mixed messaging, to say the least. Marriages were

7:57

taken to the house. typically

8:00

arranged by the father of the bride

8:02

and used as a way to join

8:04

two families together for the benefit of

8:06

both families. Not necessarily for the two

8:08

people who were getting married. Since

8:11

Daphne and Demetrius were from the same town, they

8:13

kind of knew each other before they got married,

8:15

but that wasn't always the case. Sometimes,

8:17

the first time a woman would see

8:19

her husband was on their wedding day.

8:22

Marriage ceremonies were typically held at night. The

8:24

bride left her home and was driven down

8:27

a path in darkness. The bride was given

8:29

a piece of fruit to eat at the

8:31

ceremony as a gesture that she would be

8:33

taken care of by her husband. Just

8:36

like Persephone eating the pomegranate

8:39

from Hades before she is

8:41

taken to the underworld. Oh,

8:44

right. Kind of some fun callback

8:46

there to mythology. So, shortly after

8:48

their marriage, Demetrius and Daphne had

8:50

their first child, a boy. His

8:53

mother took great care of him and he

8:55

spent all day happy and playing with his

8:57

toys. Children in ancient

8:59

Greece had very similar

9:01

toys to children today,

9:04

including rattles, pretend

9:07

chariots, yo-yos, rocking

9:10

horses, and figurines

9:12

made from clay. Yeah,

9:14

and they also had fairly similar

9:16

complaints. And some of those

9:18

complaints are hanging in museums right

9:20

now. For example, there's a letter

9:23

from a young Theon. It

9:25

is important to know that

9:27

this letter is from the

9:29

Greco-Roman period in Egypt, somewhere

9:31

between 100 to 200 BCE.

9:33

Different time. Different place. Right.

9:40

Thanks for keeping us on, historical. Yes,

9:43

Theon was living outside of Cairo at

9:45

a time when Greek, Roman and Egyptian

9:47

cultures were mixing and he was angry

9:49

with his father. Young Theon

9:52

didn't hesitate to put pen to

9:54

papyrus to let his dad know

9:56

his feelings. And now his feelings

9:58

are preserved in Oxford's Librarian

10:00

Library and read as follows.

10:30

So if you've ever told someone you'll never speak in them

10:32

again, well, you and Theon

10:45

have a lot in common. Experts believe

10:48

this kid was probably older than 10,

10:50

as he clearly wrote the letter himself, but not

10:52

older than 14 because his grammar

10:55

could use some work. You see, kids

10:57

like Theon and Demetrius' son would have

10:59

been sent to school at around age

11:02

seven. They would have been taught by

11:04

a private headmaster and learned about music,

11:06

reading, writing, and math like addition, subtraction,

11:08

multiplication, even fractions. And

11:11

of course Greek students also learned all

11:13

about Homer, one of my personal favorite

11:16

storytellers. Homer is

11:18

the famous Greek poet credited

11:20

with writing The Iliad and

11:23

The Odyssey, both

11:25

of which have been referenced often

11:28

on this show. School was mostly done by

11:30

the age of 14, but sometimes

11:32

it lasted longer if it was

11:34

a particularly rich family. But

11:36

since Demetrius wasn't very wealthy, his

11:38

son only stayed in school for

11:40

seven years and then was considered

11:42

an adult. When he wasn't

11:45

working in the blacksmith forge or helping out

11:47

around the house, Demetrius liked to hang out

11:49

at the Agora. The Agora

11:51

is a marketplace or town

11:54

square in ancient Greece.

11:56

It might seem odd to us to hang

11:58

out in a market market, but this

12:01

was the center of Greek male

12:03

society. Everything was

12:05

happening in the Agora. You chatted

12:07

with your neighbors, made trades or

12:09

business deals, and bought wares from

12:11

the surrounding countryside. Demetrius also

12:13

made sure to spend some time to work

12:16

out in the Gymnasium. That's

12:18

the Greek word for gym or gymnasium.

12:20

But it wasn't all pumping iron and

12:22

taking mirror selfies. Well, hello. I never

12:24

do that, by the way. I

12:26

mean, there was that one time. This

12:29

was serious training. The men of the

12:31

city would have been training for athletic

12:33

competitions to bring glory to their city

12:35

and themselves. Common types

12:38

of exercise included wrestling,

12:41

boxing, and discus

12:43

throwing. Cool. It's

12:46

also worth pointing out that

12:48

the athletes exercised naked. Yeah,

12:51

you've mentioned this strange fact before on our

12:53

Olympics episode, and it's still bizarre to me.

12:55

I mean, exercising naked?

12:57

Wouldn't that get uncomfortable? Is

13:00

that a rhetorical question? Or

13:04

would you prefer me to

13:06

highlight the risk of exercising

13:08

without the proper attire? Yeah,

13:11

never mind. Let's just move on. When

13:13

he wasn't working out in his birthday suit,

13:16

Demetrius occasionally liked to visit the theater. The

13:19

Greeks are said to have

13:21

invented theater and used both

13:23

tragedy and satire to combat

13:25

comment on moral issues and

13:28

problems of the day. Exactly.

13:31

And this wasn't your fancy black tie theater like

13:33

we have today. Most of the

13:35

time, these shows were free and open to

13:37

the public regardless of their citizenship or financial

13:40

status. Some places even had

13:42

public funds paying for the plays and the

13:44

actors. Plays would usually

13:46

only be performed during annual religious

13:48

festivals dedicated to Dionysus, so this

13:50

wasn't an everyday thing. So after

13:52

taking in the latest play, Demetrius

13:54

would head home to his wife

13:56

and kids along with their dog,

13:58

Spot. The ancient

14:00

Greeks did keep dogs as

14:03

pets and did assign them

14:05

names. Spot was

14:07

not a popular name at

14:09

the time. Really? But that's

14:11

a classic name. Common

14:13

dog names include Lurcher,

14:17

Blossom, Keeper, Rock

14:20

Dove, Jolly, Butcher,

14:23

Spoiler, Hurry, and

14:26

Stubborn. Interesting. You know,

14:28

before researching this episode, I didn't really think that

14:30

the ancient Greeks had pets. Odysseus

14:32

had a dog named Argos.

14:35

Alexander the Great named his

14:38

dog Paratas. And Adelanta had

14:40

a delightful furball named Aura.

14:43

Alright, ancient Greeks and their dogs.

14:45

Who knew? And we

14:48

cannot forget about the Goodest

14:50

Boy, Cerberus, Hades'

14:53

three-headed dog. Well,

14:55

I'm not sure he technically counts, but yes,

14:57

dogs are pretty cool regardless of how many

15:00

heads they have. We're going to

15:02

take a break. We'll be back with more Greeking

15:04

Out in just a couple. Hey,

15:06

parents. We have a book about the

15:08

history of dogs. From ancient times to

15:10

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15:12

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15:15

us, and of course, just sat on

15:17

the couch with us for a cuddle.

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15:21

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15:23

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15:28

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the pampered pooches of kings and queens.

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This is the ultimate book for

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15:39

friends. Dog Days of History by

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Sarah Albee is available wherever books

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are sold. See, that wasn't

15:46

so bad. Okay, we're back to Greeking Out. I

15:49

also have a list of ancient Egyptian dog names.

15:51

You want to hear? We are

15:53

now switching places. We

15:56

are now talking about Egypt. Yeah,

15:58

but only for a second. Okay,

16:00

dog names from ancient Egypt. Here

16:02

goes. Grabber, reliable,

16:06

one who is fashioned as an

16:08

arrow, cookpot, useless, and good herdsman.

16:10

So, the next time you get to

16:13

name a pet, there's your list right

16:15

there. Now, ancient Greeks kept cats as

16:17

well as dogs, but the ancient Egyptians

16:19

were famous for their love of felines.

16:21

So much so that when the Persians

16:23

attacked Egypt this one time, they actually...

16:26

In 525 BCE, the Battle of

16:28

Pelusium. Right.

16:32

That time, the Persians attacked the

16:34

Egyptians, and according to an author

16:36

named Polyemus, they carried cats into

16:38

battle so that the Egyptians would

16:40

not fight back. Polyemus

16:42

is not known for

16:44

his historical accuracy, and

16:48

is therefore not a reliable

16:50

source. I know, I know, but it's a fun story,

16:52

right? Historical stories are

16:55

fun when they are

16:57

accurate. Well, let's think of it as

16:59

a myth then, because it probably didn't

17:01

happen, but it's just cool to think

17:03

about. I mean, I just picture these

17:05

warriors with armor on, riding a horse,

17:07

thundering towards the enemy lines, clutching a

17:09

teeny tiny kitty in the other arm. I mean... That

17:12

would be extremely silly. Exactly.

17:15

So, we've talked about

17:18

ancient Greece and ancient Egypt, and now

17:20

we're going to talk about a famous

17:22

example of someone who had an axe

17:24

to grind. Having an

17:27

axe to grind is

17:29

an expression that means to

17:31

have a grievance or grudge.

17:34

Other similar expressions are having

17:37

a chip on your

17:39

shoulder, a bone to

17:41

pick, or being big

17:44

mad. So here we're talking about

17:46

a person named Nani from ancient

17:49

Mesopotamia. As a reminder,

17:52

Mesopotamia is a region that

17:54

encompasses what is now known

17:56

as Iraq, Iran, and

17:59

Syria. We are

18:01

no longer in Greece or Egypt.

18:04

Yes, and Mesopotamia is arguably

18:06

the oldest civilization in the

18:08

world. It created some of

18:10

the world's very first cities and designed

18:12

some of the first political systems. It's

18:15

also said to be the birthplace of writing, which

18:17

is what our story centers around today. Now,

18:20

unlike our ancient Greek example,

18:22

Nani was a real, actual,

18:24

factual person. Other than

18:26

his name, not much is known about Nani, but

18:28

we do know that he was in need of

18:30

some copper. While Nani's

18:33

exact occupation is not

18:35

known, the fact that

18:37

he was in need of copper

18:40

makes it pretty clear that Nani

18:42

wasn't a farmer. A

18:44

common occupation in

18:46

Mesopotamia. Right, he could have been

18:48

a blacksmith or a metalworker, but for whatever

18:50

reason, Nani needed to purchase some copper for

18:52

his job. Besides

18:54

farming, popular jobs

18:57

in Mesopotamia and in

18:59

Greece included building,

19:02

pottery, metallurgy and

19:05

carpentry. Yeah, and Mesopotamia was

19:07

also known for its commerce. Merchants would

19:09

bring goods from other regions and sell

19:11

or trade them at local marketplaces. And

19:13

even though they didn't have coins at

19:16

the time, they did use silver as

19:18

a form of money. While

19:20

coinage didn't exist until 650

19:24

BCE, Mesopotamians were one

19:27

of the first civilizations

19:29

to use physical currency

19:32

and used silver as their

19:35

primary form of money. Oh,

19:37

very cool. And before

19:39

we continue with Nani's day, I do

19:41

have two names of Mesopotamian dogs found

19:43

in an archaeological site. Let's see. This

19:46

whole episode was so you could

19:49

talk about ancient dog names. Wasn't

19:52

it? Yes, it was. There

19:54

were five little dog figurines found

19:56

in the ancient city of Nimrud. Only

19:59

two of them. had names inscribed on them, but

20:01

they were Biter of his

20:03

enemy and Consumer

20:06

of Life. Yeah, I know

20:08

what you're gonna say, Oracle. These dog

20:10

figurines probably weren't figurines representing real dogs,

20:13

but rather protective amulets meant

20:15

to keep the owner safe from evil

20:17

spirits. No, I

20:19

was going to say they

20:22

were found by Max Malowin

20:25

in the 1950s. Malowin

20:27

is also the husband

20:29

of famed mystery writer

20:32

Agatha Christie. Okay, I

20:34

did not expect that. Oracle,

20:37

bring in the interesting facts. Nice

20:39

job. And now

20:41

we can come back to Nani and his

20:43

day that is preserved in the historical record.

20:46

Nani sent one of his workers down to

20:48

the marketplace to buy some of the metal

20:51

from Ian Asir, a local merchant. But when

20:53

the worker came back, Nani was

20:55

astounded at the poor quality of the

20:57

copper. It was so bad

20:59

that Nani took the time to write

21:02

a complaint to Ian Asir. Remember,

21:04

this is before you could go

21:06

post a bad review online or

21:08

write a letter with a pen

21:10

and paper to get his point

21:13

across. Nani had to cut the

21:15

words into a stone tablet. He

21:17

filled up the large tablet front

21:19

and back and had it delivered

21:21

to Ian Asir after receiving his

21:23

substandard product. This goes

21:26

down as history's oldest

21:28

complaint. It does. And before you

21:30

start thinking that the Oracle just made a

21:33

joke, it's true. Nani's tablet

21:35

actually holds the Guinness World

21:37

Record for oldest written customer

21:39

complaint. Here's an excerpt from

21:41

the letter. Okay. Tell

21:44

Ian Asir if Nani sends the

21:46

following message. When you came,

21:48

you said to me, I will

21:50

give fine quality copper ingots. You

21:53

left, but you did not do what you

21:55

promised me. You put ingots, which were not

21:57

good, before my messenger and said. If

22:00

you want to take them, take them. If

22:02

you do not want to take them, go away. What

22:05

do you take me for that you treat me with

22:07

such contempt? You have withheld my

22:09

money bag from me in enemy territory.

22:12

It is now up to you to restore me in

22:14

full. Take notice that I

22:16

will not accept any copper from you that

22:18

is not of fine quality. I

22:21

shall select and take the ingots individually

22:23

in my yard and I shall exercise

22:25

against you my right of rejection because

22:27

you have treated me with contempt. Ha

22:30

ha ha. Now

22:32

that, as we say in current culture,

22:34

is someone who is big mad. Nani

22:37

will go down in history as

22:39

the guy who really, really, really valued

22:41

copper. But Yann Aseer will

22:44

probably have a much different legacy.

22:46

He angered a lot of people.

22:48

Archaeologists have found dozens of tablets

22:50

with poor reviews of Yann Aseer's

22:53

copper preserved for thousands of years.

22:56

Quality is very important.

22:59

I pride myself on the

23:01

quality and value of

23:03

information and education I bring

23:06

to this show. And you should

23:08

because you really kept this episode from flying off

23:10

the rails. There were no

23:13

rails to begin with. This

23:15

was pure chaos. Well,

23:18

be that as it may, I just

23:20

find the small bits of evidence of

23:22

the very human lives of the people

23:24

who live before us really interesting. Take

23:27

graffiti, for instance. There has been

23:29

graffiti for as long as there

23:31

have been humans. Archaeologists

23:33

have found graffiti on walls, floors,

23:36

and other objects all over the

23:38

world. While the message written

23:40

down often varies, the most common graffiti

23:42

message was a person writing their own

23:45

name. As a way to say, I

23:47

was here. When we look back

23:49

at ancient life, it's interesting to think about

23:51

how much things have changed and how much

23:53

things have stayed the same. At

23:55

the end of the day, humans have always

23:57

wanted to matter, to be relevant.

24:00

to preserve our legacy, to say, I was

24:02

here, I mattered, I have a story to

24:04

tell. It's one of the

24:07

reasons why mythology is still relevant and

24:09

important today. Even though

24:11

these stories were created thousands and

24:13

thousands of years ago, they still

24:15

contain important lessons and insights into

24:17

what it means to be human.

24:20

They're relevant because humanity is still

24:23

very much the same. We

24:25

just have better technology now. My

24:27

insights as the oracle

24:29

of Wi-Fi are

24:31

way more reliable than the

24:34

oracle of Delphi. Well, sure,

24:36

but you just share facts, not prophecies.

24:39

I do sometimes predict the

24:42

future. You do? Yes,

24:45

I foresee that this

24:47

is the end of the

24:49

episode. Okay, well, that was kind of

24:51

obvious, but... I foresee that

24:53

you will thank the listeners

24:56

and encourage them to tune in into

24:59

more episodes. I

25:01

always do that. And

25:03

then you will go upstairs

25:06

and make another cup of coffee

25:09

while humming the Breaking Out

25:11

theme song. Fair point, that's a

25:13

given, yeah. And then you

25:16

will Google more ancient dog names.

25:18

Stop looking at my search history.

25:22

Breaking Out. Thanks for listening. Next

25:24

episode is our last for the season, and

25:26

we'll be talking about a certain sporting event

25:28

that happens every four years. Listen

25:32

and you'll see it's

25:35

Breaking Out. National

25:39

Geographic Kids, Greeking Out is written by

25:41

Gillian Hughes and Kenny Curtis, and hosted

25:43

by Kenny Curtis, with Tori Kerr as

25:45

the oracle of Wi-Fi, audio production and

25:48

sound design by Scottie Beam, and our

25:50

theme song was composed by Perry Grip.

25:52

Dr. Meredith Safran is our subject matter

25:54

expert, Emily Burkett and Laurie Broda are

25:57

our producers, and Emily Everhart is our

25:59

senior producer. producer.