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come. Hey,

3:07

it's Conrad Thompson and you're listening

3:09

the grilling, JR, with the voice

3:11

of professional wrestling. Mr. Jim Ross,

3:13

Jim, how are you, man? I'm

3:15

good, Connie. I'm not in Australia.

3:17

I'm in Jacksonville Beach. So, uh,

3:19

and happy I am. So, all

3:22

good. Life is good. I feel

3:24

good. I've got a big appearance

3:26

this weekend in Springfield, Missouri. One

3:28

of my old stomping grounds for

3:30

the McGirk territory. I was mentioned

3:32

to you off the air that

3:34

Springfield was our Wednesday night town

3:36

back in the day when I

3:38

broke in the rest of business.

3:40

Shrine Mosque is where we had

3:42

our events. And so we're going

3:44

back there this weekend with the

3:46

King and do two days for

3:48

appearances should be good. And I'm

3:50

excited about it. Looking

3:52

forward to seeing

3:54

no fans. No

3:56

friends and things

3:58

of that nature.

4:00

So it's gonna

4:02

be good. I

4:04

like these parishes

4:06

Want to book

4:08

me? book me

4:10

Book me down though

4:15

Well, they booked a nice Super

4:18

Bowl this past weekend Jim

4:20

and I think this may have

4:22

actually been since aw started

4:24

The first time Tony con and

4:26

Vince McMahon have been at

4:28

the same physical address at the

4:30

same time It was a

4:32

who's who everybody was there including

4:35

Vince McMahon, which was a

4:37

head scratcher What do you think

4:39

of the Super Bowl GM?

4:41

A lot of people didn't have

4:43

this on their bingo card

4:45

man Patrick Holmes just got shut

4:47

down and the Philadelphia Eagles

4:49

are Victorious Jalen Hertz an Oklahoma

4:51

graduate. Yeah, well then the

4:54

big Super Bowl MVP trophy What

4:56

do you think? Shalen had

4:58

good good schooling, you know playing

5:00

there at Alabama for saving

5:02

getting recruited by saving big deal

5:04

And then he kind of

5:06

got knocked down And he transferred

5:08

to OU Play for the

5:11

lovable Lincoln Riley and He did

5:13

he did real well. He

5:15

was he's a winner and and

5:17

I was telling somebody the

5:19

other day When I first met

5:21

him in person He reminded

5:23

me of my the images I

5:25

had of a young Jim

5:27

Brown hmm six to 225

5:30

You could run He

5:34

just was a typical of

5:36

a quarterback He was more

5:38

of a tailback body And

5:40

I think we saw that

5:42

on Sunday His ability to

5:44

run and miss and break

5:46

tackles and things of that

5:48

nature. So I was I

5:51

was I was pleasantly surprised as

5:53

I had picked Kansas City to

5:55

win And that

5:58

didn't come to fruition Well

6:01

it was a big night I

6:03

enjoyed the Super Bowl at least

6:05

the first half maybe the second

6:07

half wasn't all that exciting but

6:10

I went to bed in a third

6:12

quarter I don't blame me I

6:14

don't I tapped I really did I it

6:16

was and I wasn't angry I

6:18

was disappointed maybe a little

6:21

bit but I thought that the Chiefs

6:23

would play a whole hell a lot

6:25

better they just got their ass whipped

6:27

that their offensive line got

6:29

got manhandled and

6:32

the defense of the Eagles

6:34

was stifling say the least

6:37

so all good though I I enjoyed

6:39

the first half and I

6:41

said bucket I'm going to bed

6:43

and I did and I went

6:46

to sleep and I didn't

6:48

I didn't have any bad

6:50

dreams just was the way

6:52

it was Hopefully you guys

6:54

won't sleep on Grand Slam that's

6:57

happening this weekend immediately following the

6:59

NBA all-star game. It's going to

7:01

be a big-time Saturday. With some

7:03

big-time wrestling down under, we've got

7:06

Kenny Omega and Will Osprey on the

7:08

same team. Take Costa and Kyle Fletcher.

7:10

We've got the Death Riders taken on Cope

7:12

and Jay White in a Brisbane brawl

7:14

match. We're also going to see Harley Cameron

7:17

challenge Mercedes Mercedes Mercedes Monet

7:19

for the TBS championship. The

7:21

AEW women's world title will be

7:24

on the line when Tony Storm

7:26

and Mariah May hook it up and

7:28

one of the better AEW stories

7:30

these days. And how about this

7:32

for a continental championship

7:35

match? Okata versus Buddy

7:37

Matthews. That'll be good. A

7:39

big fight feel this Saturday night

7:42

event. I know you're fortunate and I

7:44

have to make that long trip

7:46

over on the long flight. Long

7:48

flight, man. Long, long flight for

7:50

no man. But you are going to be

7:52

tuned in. I'm sure of it this Saturday

7:54

night. What are you looking forward to most

7:57

about Grand Slam Jim? So explain to me

7:59

again con ready we can see this

8:01

on television. Is it going to

8:03

be on TNT? It is. It's

8:05

going to be on TNT and

8:07

it's going to be on Max.

8:10

It will be immediately following the

8:12

NBA All-Star game. I got you.

8:14

Well, that'd be good. Good lead

8:16

in. Yeah. And all that. So

8:18

that's good. So that's good. The

8:20

cards loaded. I mean, there's no

8:23

reason this card shouldn't be one

8:25

of the best of the year

8:27

without question. And I think it

8:29

will be. A lot of good

8:31

matchups. It's good stuff. So, uh,

8:34

good, well, well, Tony Khan. Good

8:36

booking. Good booking indeed. There has

8:38

been some, uh, some other news

8:40

and notes. I thought maybe we

8:42

should hit before we get to

8:44

our topic today, which is going

8:47

to be the big show and

8:49

how he went from being the

8:51

giant in W. They viewing with

8:53

the WWF as the big show.

8:55

So we're going to break down

8:58

some of his early run with

9:00

Titan, but before we do, some

9:02

of the runs of some of

9:04

our favorite performers in Titan have

9:06

seemingly come to an end. We

9:09

saw the news that the Good

9:11

Brothers have been released as have

9:13

the authors of pain and Paul

9:15

Ellering and Sonia Deville and Cedric

9:17

Alexander. And the names keep coming.

9:19

And I'm sure for a lot

9:22

of folks, this is devastating news.

9:24

It feels like the end of

9:26

a dream. But it doesn't have

9:28

to be, Jim, and you know

9:30

that better than anybody. Yeah, it

9:33

doesn't have any words and wisdom

9:35

for these newly released talent now

9:37

that they find themselves on the

9:39

outside of the tip. Look again.

9:41

Just stay positive and regroup. It's

9:43

not the end of the world.

9:46

More opportunities will come. What kills

9:48

you sometimes is how these talents

9:50

react to the bad news. and

9:52

how it makes an overtly negative,

9:54

and that's not good. Stay positive,

9:57

stay in shape, improve your game.

9:59

and hopefully find yourself another landing

10:01

spot. There's plenty of landing spots

10:03

out there. It's just a matter

10:05

of finding the right one for

10:08

you. But it's certainly not the

10:10

end of the world, I can

10:12

say that. It is going to

10:14

be interesting to see what happens

10:16

for so many of those talent.

10:18

I don't know if you've seen

10:21

Jim, but there's even been a

10:23

handful of AEW releases and we've

10:25

already seen. What life after AEW

10:27

looks like for Ricky Starks, as

10:29

I understand it, he debuted on

10:32

in next T this past Tuesday

10:34

night. What do you think about

10:36

Ricky Starks and next T Jim?

10:38

Well, he's a hive motor guy.

10:40

I don't know he'll be the

10:42

next Sean Michael's at his size,

10:45

but he's certainly going to, he

10:47

has a unique future, he's got

10:49

a big personality. So hopefully he'll

10:51

do well and live his dream.

10:53

It seems like the dream for

10:56

a lot of talents is to

10:58

make it to W-W-E and call

11:00

it a day. That's not where

11:02

it ends. That's where it begins.

11:04

So I saw the episode of

11:07

N-X-T last night, surprised to see

11:09

Ricky Starks. I don't know how

11:11

he's going to do. He's got

11:13

a high opinion of himself. And

11:15

he's got a lot of abilities.

11:17

There's no doubt about that. So...

11:20

We'll see how it works out

11:22

for him. It's never easy to

11:24

get over and hopefully he can

11:26

get over, stay over as a

11:28

top star remains to be seen

11:31

to see how it goes. Well,

11:33

something we're hoping that you guys

11:35

will recognize as being over is

11:37

less than a month away. It's

11:39

the theatrical release of a movie

11:41

that J.R. was the executive producer

11:44

on. It's a pro wrestling movie.

11:46

It's a pro wrestling movie. Coming

11:48

to a theater near you, of

11:50

course we're talking about queen of

11:52

the ring, let's take a look.

12:00

Oh, honey. I have a bad

12:02

dream. Only dreams that we make

12:04

come true, are we? We're going

12:06

to wish away all those bad

12:08

dogs. And one, two, three. I

12:11

promise you, my son. Our lives

12:13

together will be special. Where's your

12:15

little boy's father anyway? Mr. I

12:17

ain't going to marry no circus

12:19

freak. He done let me over

12:22

this. Billy Wolf. I'm really curious

12:24

to see what you can do

12:26

with her. You barely. That's

12:29

the only man that's ever believed

12:31

in my dream. We got a

12:34

job to do tonight. You're out

12:36

there. You wrestle your heart. We

12:38

can headline arenas. I know that

12:41

we can. I know that we

12:43

can. I know that we can.

12:45

I know that we can. I

12:48

want to talk to you about

12:50

putting two of my girls on

12:52

your car. My main event is

12:55

heavy weights and then main. Why

12:57

would anyone want to limit the

12:59

spectacle of competition based on gender?

13:01

Looks like we're cleaning up every

13:04

night of the week now. It's

13:06

got me thinking Billy. I want

13:08

to secure as equal parts. Then

13:11

do what's right for business. Honor

13:13

the deal and we shoot. You

13:15

will do what I say. Are

13:18

you will find yourself clean in

13:20

toilets and some arena after my

13:22

show comes through? Mr.

13:25

McMahon how can I

13:27

get a guarantee that

13:30

my lady's life? Mr.

13:32

McMahon. How can I

13:34

get a guarantee that

13:36

my ladies can rest

13:38

on the state of

13:40

New York? Let's show

13:42

them how we'll do

13:44

it in the South.

14:00

I'm actually the highest paid female

14:02

athlete in Washington in history. In

14:04

history. March 7th be here before

14:06

you know it. Can't wait to

14:09

see it in the theater. Jim,

14:11

I'll be excited if I was

14:13

you too. This is a big

14:16

deal. This is a big moment

14:18

in your life too right here,

14:20

is it not? Yeah, absolutely. I'm

14:23

very proud of that clip. The

14:25

trailer is brilliantly done. It's a

14:27

great story. I was single mom

14:30

who wanted to be a wrestler

14:32

had to overcome all the... the

14:34

visions in her life. It's just,

14:37

and it's a true story. So

14:39

I'm excited about it. I think

14:41

people are going to really like

14:44

it. Our audience should have loved

14:46

it. And so I hope you

14:48

guys will check it out and

14:51

get the movie theater. You're like

14:53

me, you haven't been in a

14:55

movie theater in a long time,

14:57

so now here's a good reason

15:00

to do so. So I think

15:02

it's going to do well. It's

15:04

just a great story. I love

15:07

the reality aspect of it, the

15:09

reality side of it. It's just

15:11

really good to me. Good stuff

15:14

Conrad. Hope you guys go see

15:16

it. Queen of the Ring, come

15:18

into a theater near you, March

15:21

7th, big plank plans to go

15:23

support this in the theater. As

15:25

a reminder, if this movie is

15:28

successful, there is a better chance

15:30

that more movies, more adaptations and

15:32

Hollywood about professional wrestling will exist.

15:35

But if this is a successful,

15:37

well, this might be the last

15:39

wrestling movie you see for a

15:42

while. but that's the way it

15:44

works Jim if folks are into

15:46

it man we try to super

15:48

serve that audience all right any

15:51

wrestling fans to go out and

15:53

and support this thing and absolutely

15:55

for more wrestling stories to be

15:58

told absolutely a good thing gets

16:00

a good thought and that's good

16:02

logical so I think it's gonna

16:05

do well it's just too good

16:07

a story not to enjoy but

16:09

you got to get in the

16:12

theater to see it so that's

16:14

pretty cool it's not to DVD

16:16

thing, it's the real deal. So

16:19

I hope you guys will check

16:21

it out. It really means a

16:23

lot to me personally. I think

16:26

it means a lot to the

16:28

rest of the business. So, but

16:30

there's part of the history that

16:33

the business itself and the good

16:35

old boy network would prefer you

16:37

forget. Some of the story was

16:39

very disheartening. Now how Mildred got

16:42

treated was... simple, say the least,

16:44

but she had this overwhelming desire

16:46

to compete and to be a

16:49

star. She was a star. She

16:51

was making more money. The reason

16:53

she had so much heat, she

16:56

was making more money than most

16:58

of the men. And they didn't

17:00

like that. I saw that back

17:03

in the day when the women

17:05

would come into a territory for

17:07

their once or twice a year

17:10

appearance. So anyway. I hope you

17:12

guys to check it out March

17:14

9th. I think you said con

17:17

red, right? March 7th. Okay, I'm

17:19

sorry. Yeah, March 7th. That's close.

17:21

This weekend is going to be

17:24

here before you know it and

17:26

the voice of professional wrestling is

17:28

going to be suited and booted

17:30

at the Missouri Comic Con in

17:33

Springfield, Missouri. It's happening this Saturday

17:35

and Sunday. Fans also get the

17:37

opportunity to see JR in the

17:40

King together. for some cool autograph

17:42

and unique photo-off experiences for more.

17:44

information head on

17:47

over right now

17:49

to Missouri Comic

17:51

con.com. That's again,

17:54

if you want

17:56

to see JR

17:58

this weekend in

18:01

Springfield, make plans

18:03

to go see

18:05

him at the

18:08

Missouri Comic Con

18:10

snagging your tickets

18:12

now at Missouri

18:14

Comic con.com. All

18:19

right, Jim, let's talk about

18:22

it. The man, the myth, the

18:24

legend that is Paul White.

18:26

Of course, most of us actually

18:28

see the giant in person

18:30

on WCW the first time. This

18:32

would be 1995, but I

18:35

think he's first on the radar

18:37

of maybe some wrestling insiders

18:39

in 1994. He spends a little

18:41

bit of time at Larry

18:43

Sharpe's Monster Factory in New Jersey.

18:45

He has one match in

18:48

December of 94 and around that

18:50

same time, I think it

18:52

was like a meet and greet

18:54

and convention where they were

18:56

doing an NWA World Heavyweight title

18:59

tournament that Dennis Corleuso had

19:01

been promoting in New Jersey and

19:03

there's some wrestling luminaries there

19:05

that day. Guys like Jim Cornette

19:07

and guys like Jerry Lawler

19:09

and they see this mammoth human

19:12

being walking around. When do

19:14

you first remember hearing about Paul

19:16

White in a professional wrestling

19:18

capacity? It was around that time.

19:20

Yeah, he made a big

19:22

impression because of his size. He

19:25

was unique. He was different

19:27

and from his basketball background, that's

19:30

where I first heard

19:32

of him was playing basketball

19:35

for Northern Oklahoma Junior

19:37

College in Tonkawa, Tonkawa, Oklahoma,

19:39

but he was recruited

19:41

by Wichita State and

19:44

which is a good basketball school

19:46

by the way and

19:49

he was good. He was a

19:51

good basketball player. So that told me

19:53

that he had decent feet. like

19:56

Foster Brooks here. Sounded like he

19:58

had good feet. He went

20:01

from Wichita State to Northern

20:03

Oklahoma Junior College to improve his

20:05

skill set. So

20:07

that's when I first heard about him being

20:10

an outstanding

20:13

basketball player in his day.

20:17

Well, as the story goes, Hulk

20:19

Hogan discovers him, wink, wink, a few

20:21

months later and gets WCW to

20:23

sign him. Now, if you ask Paul

20:25

White, I think he would say

20:27

that he didn't learn anything from Larry Sharp, but

20:30

Larry Sharp took his money. But

20:32

he does wind up getting signed by

20:34

WCW, spend some time at the power

20:36

plant. We would hear reports out

20:38

of there that, man, the

20:40

real life Paul White was just

20:42

a freaking nature. The athleticism that

20:44

he had for a man his size,

20:47

he could do it all, including as

20:49

crazy as this sounds, a

20:51

moonsault. I mean,

20:53

at his youngest and perhaps most

20:55

in shape, has there ever

20:57

been an athlete like that in wrestling before

21:00

Jim? Not really. I guess

21:02

young Andre might compare to it.

21:04

The younger version of

21:07

Andre the Giant was pretty

21:09

damn impressive. Those

21:11

of us that followed the

21:13

game closely and look at the

21:15

old plastic videos. Andre

21:17

was pretty sensational. He could do

21:19

everything. And,

21:21

of course, as things

21:23

would go with pro wrestling, Andre

21:26

doing everything meant

21:28

that he changed his

21:30

style. It

21:32

was just unique as hell.

21:36

So Paul was really

21:38

athletic. That's the thing he had

21:40

going for him. His enemy was

21:42

his weight. So I

21:45

think that, in my opinion, he

21:48

was overexposed

21:51

in the beginning. He

21:53

just, I said

21:55

that many times, he's an

21:57

attraction guy. He's.

22:00

one that you want to

22:02

see less because at that

22:04

point yet that happened

22:06

he would mean more and I

22:09

think that he was like

22:11

a new toy a big toy but a

22:13

new toy and in the business

22:15

and he was overexposed

22:18

in my opinion I do

22:20

want to ask you about

22:22

Paul White because this

22:24

feels like this would have been

22:27

Vince McMahon higher all day. I

22:29

mean, we've all heard how much

22:32

Vince McMahon loves size and we

22:34

know that well, Holkogan has a

22:36

lot of stroke, shall we say,

22:38

W. C. W. Sines him

22:40

and I think his second match

22:43

ever is going to be against

22:45

Holkogan on a paper of humane

22:47

event. So in the the cliched too

22:49

much too soon, maybe there's no

22:51

better example of that than

22:53

Paul White, but How does he slip

22:56

through the fingers of Vince McMahon?

22:58

Like, I know you're not running

23:00

Talent Relations at that very

23:02

moment. I think that's still Jay-J,

23:04

but is this a missed opportunity

23:06

for Vince? It felt like he

23:08

would have jumped at the chance to have

23:11

him even in 95. I don't think Vince

23:13

is probably totally aware of

23:15

Paul White. He quickly became aware, but

23:18

I think that's part of the

23:20

situation Conrad. He wasn't aware.

23:22

You know, when you're running the ship.

23:24

like Vince did and

23:26

you're micromannishing every aspect

23:29

of your company. Sometimes

23:32

things do slip through the

23:34

cracks. But if I had been

23:36

in that role, I'm sure I were

23:38

brought to Vincent's attention

23:40

very quickly and we were

23:43

to see where it went. But he

23:45

was a no-brainer to be

23:47

hired by WWI. Jared Brisco

23:49

and I did a lot of recruiting

23:52

with him. He lived in

23:55

Florida, so Jerry and I

23:57

would visit him at his

23:59

home. It worked out at the

24:01

end of the day, it worked

24:04

out fine. He signed it. But

24:06

he had, the only issues I

24:08

can say that he had, as

24:11

I mentioned earlier, was his weight,

24:13

keeping him in shape. He was

24:15

kind of like Luca. Or how

24:18

great can you be? Well, you

24:20

could be really great if you're

24:23

in shape. And you're in game

24:25

shape. And I think that's what

24:27

we strive to accomplish. was to

24:30

make sure that he was in

24:32

shape, but he did have trouble

24:34

with his weight, and that was

24:37

problematic. I do want to talk

24:39

to you about a report that,

24:41

I mean, if you were reading

24:44

the observer back then, you certainly

24:46

got the idea that Dave Meltzer

24:48

was in some sort of regular

24:51

communication with Vince, because it felt

24:53

like Dave was basically sharing that

24:56

Vince was unhappy with the way

24:58

WCP was presenting the giant. Maybe

25:00

he was thinking that they were

25:03

squandering the opportunity with the giant

25:05

and he needed to be booked

25:07

more like a special attraction. Maybe

25:10

more like Andre was. Bingo. Do

25:12

you remember Vince ever wanting a

25:14

W. C. W. Signing as much

25:17

as he wanted big show because

25:19

I know there's a lot of

25:21

talent who come over, but it

25:24

feels like. The big show, that's

25:26

going to be sort of the

25:29

apple of Vince's eye when it

25:31

comes to the W.C.W. side of

25:33

things. Well, Vince saw him as

25:36

the next Andre the giant. Simple

25:38

as that. And so that worked

25:40

out. How it worked out was

25:43

how it worked out. You know,

25:45

it's a big show. He was

25:47

in pretty decent shape. His weight

25:50

was under control. And he was

25:52

quite the specimen. But his basketball

25:54

playing ability ability. helped him with

25:57

his feet, his balance, his foot

25:59

speed, things of that nature. So,

26:01

but Vincent envisioned Paul White as

26:04

the next... Andre the giant. But

26:06

unfortunately, Big Shell was not booked

26:09

like Andre the giant. He was

26:11

booked like another wrestler, just a

26:13

big guy. And Vince loved the

26:16

size. He loved guys that were

26:18

turned heads and airports, that type

26:20

thing. But Big Shell was impressive.

26:23

He made a great first impression

26:25

without a doubt. And he had

26:27

everything going for him, everything going

26:30

for him. Size, athleticism, you know,

26:32

he looked like a giant, he

26:34

performed like a giant, and I'm

26:37

glad that we were able to

26:39

sign him, for Vincent's sake, because

26:42

he was a high priority. That's

26:44

why Risco and I were on

26:46

his desk early on about, you

26:49

know, going to his home, watching

26:51

him eat. All the stuff that

26:53

he do as a recruiter. we

26:56

did with Paul White and got

26:58

to knowing, you know, he was

27:00

an engaging guy, good personality and

27:03

an engaging dude and I thought

27:05

he was a can't miss guy

27:07

quite frankly. I hope some veteran

27:10

had his ear when he first

27:12

gets signed up with W.W. and

27:15

they whispered to him, hey man,

27:17

Maybe you should rent. Don't buy.

27:19

And by the way, I want

27:22

to do a PSA right now

27:24

for anyone who rents. If you

27:26

haven't heard of Bill, you're about

27:29

to thank me. Earning points on

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27:40

start earning points that you can

27:43

use towards flights or hotel stays,

27:45

fitness, even your next rent payment.

27:48

Let me break it down for

27:50

you. If you're a rent. Oh,

28:59

oh, oh, O'Reilly! You need

29:02

parts? O'Reilly Auto Parts has

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parts. Need them fast?

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stand apart. The

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professional parts people.

32:02

and but do it believe it

32:04

believe it and so it's

32:06

nothing new just saying oh shit

32:09

and Hogan had a had a

32:11

hand in that and and of

32:13

course him being whole Hogan

32:16

he impressed Paul white thought

32:18

he had he was walking down

32:20

easy street because he

32:22

had already had a easy street

32:25

because he had already

32:27

had a And that opponent so

32:29

happened to be the biggest

32:32

star in resting at that time.

32:34

Do you remember these sort

32:36

of understandings existing with

32:38

any other talent besides

32:40

Big Show? What do you

32:43

mean? Well, where a deal was in

32:45

place in 96, like they had an

32:47

understanding that, hey, when your

32:49

contract's up, we got you.

32:51

I mean, that is a

32:53

conversation that's had in December

32:56

of 96. He doesn't actually

32:58

get to jump until

33:00

February of 99. So we

33:02

go all of 97 and 98 with the

33:04

real life Paul White understanding.

33:07

I'm only hearing W. C.

33:09

W. For the next two

33:11

years, I'm going to W.

33:14

W. E. Well, it's smart

33:16

move up all because W.

33:18

E. Was more established and

33:21

certainly had that Hogan element

33:23

to some degree. So

33:25

no I he was smart and that

33:27

he was patient enough to wait

33:30

for his opportunity and

33:32

that opportunity eventually

33:35

came. How does Luke Williams

33:37

become the conduit for this?

33:39

Bushwacker Luke is the conduit

33:41

for Big Show? That seems

33:44

weird. Yeah it was it was

33:46

a little strange to be honest

33:48

with you. Luke's a smart guy

33:50

I've been a booker. Decid communicator

33:53

believe it or not.

33:55

And he was just somebody

33:57

that was a non-affiliated.

34:00

Emissary and Luke knew where

34:02

Big Show should be at

34:04

the end of the day

34:06

and that was the WWE

34:08

which is where he eventually

34:10

wound up. Luke's a smart

34:12

guy and he knew what

34:14

he's doing. Talk to me

34:16

a little bit about the

34:18

10-year deal aspect because this

34:20

is clearly a different time

34:22

and place. A 10-year contract

34:24

feels like quite a commitment.

34:26

I want to remind everybody,

34:28

he signs this 10-year deal

34:30

in February of 99. And

34:32

you may remember, once upon

34:34

a time, the other guy

34:36

we heard who had a

34:38

really long-term deal. Well, Vince

34:40

McMahon approached Brenthart. I don't

34:42

know. Ten months after he

34:44

signed that contract, that felt

34:46

like a 20-year deal and

34:48

said, hey, I can't honor

34:50

it. So the next time

34:52

we hear of a really

34:54

long-term deal like this, it's

34:56

here in February of 99,

34:58

a 10-year deal. At the

35:00

time, what did you think

35:02

of that, Jim? You're heading

35:04

talent relations, and we're getting

35:06

the contract for 10 years

35:08

for a talent? Yes, it's

35:10

unusual. It's certainly unusual. I

35:12

myself had a 10-year deal

35:14

at my heyday there at

35:16

WWE. Thanks to advance as

35:18

generosity. I paid me a

35:21

lot of money. And I

35:23

was very happy to get

35:25

it. It was very appreciative

35:27

to get that offer and

35:29

sign that deal. Ten years

35:31

is a long time. And

35:33

for us in a resting

35:35

business, as volatile as it

35:37

is, I made it work.

35:39

And I know it's kind

35:41

of ironic. And it's an

35:43

oxymoron because I came and

35:45

went too many times. But

35:47

I started with a 10-year

35:49

deal and that meant a

35:51

lot to me, give me

35:53

some security in a business

35:55

where security is not a,

35:57

it's not oftentimes found. So,

35:59

but it was unusual. You

36:01

know, the key thing about

36:03

the big show was that

36:05

we had to make sure

36:07

we kept him in shape

36:09

because he was injury prone.

36:11

If he got too heavy,

36:13

he would become injury prone.

36:15

And that tenure deal, if

36:17

he sent home, meant nothing.

36:22

It's crazy to think about a

36:24

10 year deal, but that's the

36:26

way it all happened. And we

36:28

find that out sort of the

36:30

backstory once he actually signs in

36:32

February of 99. But back in

36:34

the fall of 98 that's when

36:36

we started to hear whispers that

36:38

he might actually be leaving W.

36:41

C. W. Dave would write this

36:43

in September of 98. While this

36:45

is not confirmed, this does come

36:47

from people very close to the

36:49

situation that the giant is either

36:51

very close to or has completed

36:53

a deal to go to the

36:55

W. He's been talking loudly about

36:57

it for weeks and some think

37:00

he's doing it or as a

37:02

way to get Bischoff's attention and

37:04

make sure that this rumor gets

37:06

started. He worked all the weekend

37:08

house shows after missing Utica Mississippi

37:10

on September 23rd, complaining of a

37:12

broken rib. Although his action was

37:14

kept to a minimum. The rumor

37:16

largely stems from three things. His

37:18

talk of a claimed $1 million

37:21

per year offer. in several recent

37:23

threats to take it, which is

37:25

quite a bit more than he

37:27

earns now in W. C. W.

37:29

The validity of which is speculative

37:31

though, knowing that Titan and McMahon

37:33

like the knowledge or have the

37:35

knowledge that they've wanted him from

37:37

the start. Giant fits the bill,

37:40

given that at the age of

37:42

27 and he's got the huge

37:44

size. His no showing TV on

37:46

the 28th and talk from friends

37:48

in recent days. saying that he's

37:50

going there's already gone. Well, it

37:52

maybe is because it's been clear

37:54

his W career has been stagnant

37:56

for quite a while. I don't

37:58

know his contractual obligation, but we've

38:01

still heard he's got a few

38:03

months left to go. and he's

38:05

not able to just walk out.

38:07

By the way, if he were

38:09

to leave without dropping the tag

38:11

title, do you think if this

38:13

was as true as it was,

38:15

and this is called speculation or

38:17

nothing more, that Titanon principle would

38:20

withdraw their offer, making sure he

38:22

does the right thing for the

38:24

business that made him, me neither.

38:26

Of course, Dave's having a little

38:28

fun with the tongue in cheek

38:30

of they were negotiating with a

38:32

talent who's got a title. That

38:34

sounds a little bit like red

38:36

heart, but. When you know that

38:38

Vince has his eyes on Paul

38:41

White, and you know that he's

38:43

wanting to make a 10-year play

38:45

for him, is there any reservation

38:47

in your mind about giving any

38:49

talent a 10-year deal? And I

38:51

know you said you had a

38:53

10-year deal, but respectfully being a

38:55

commentator versus being an in-ring competitor,

38:57

a big money in-ring competitor, maybe

39:00

that's a different thing. Did the

39:02

administrator in you? Have any sort

39:04

of uneasiness about how you've never

39:06

worked with a 10-year deal. Yeah,

39:08

I did. But the thing about

39:10

you look at is dimensions. The

39:12

size is athleticism. There's nobody else

39:14

in the business at that time

39:16

like Paul White. And so he

39:18

was unique in that respect. I

39:21

can't, as I said earlier, I

39:23

can't miss guy. And a guy

39:25

that Vince coveteded, and when Vince

39:27

Covett's somebody. You know, and my

39:29

role during that time, it was

39:31

to get your man, sign him

39:33

up. And so that's what we

39:35

did. I watched him eat many

39:37

meals, and I think he did

39:40

it to help him, to impress

39:42

us a little bit, because he

39:44

was eating healthy, eating a lot

39:46

of protein. So that was always

39:48

the issue. It's always the same

39:50

issue with big guys like that.

39:52

How committed are they to getting

39:54

in shape, staying in shape, and

39:56

being able to physically perform at

39:58

a high level? And we

40:01

knew he had it in him. It's just

40:03

a matter of can we convince

40:05

him that being in great condition

40:07

and being leaner than not is

40:10

a good thing. It's interesting

40:12

you're bringing up the

40:14

leanness aspect because Wade is even

40:16

writing about that in October of

40:18

98 saying in the last year

40:20

though, giant has developed a

40:23

reputation for being notoriously lazy

40:25

with his goal to do

40:27

as little as possible in

40:29

the ring. while gaining as

40:31

much weight as possible outside

40:33

of the ring. So clearly,

40:35

even in late 98, there

40:37

are concerns about issues. Yes.

40:40

There are issues. They were

40:42

well-established. Let's get on

40:45

a scale and you see what

40:47

I'm talking about. But yeah, he

40:49

had some issues controlling

40:51

his weight. That's been

40:54

problematic for Paul White since

40:56

day one, and this in my

40:58

opinion. He's not the only

41:00

guy that had issues with

41:02

weight, several others over the

41:05

years. So I, uh, we constantly

41:07

worked on that all the time,

41:09

ways, way ends. I wait him a

41:11

lot of times at TV just

41:13

to see how he was doing,

41:15

to get a measurement on it.

41:18

He didn't like it, but he,

41:20

so I think what it said

41:22

to him was that we didn't

41:24

trust him for this weight, and

41:26

the weight gets out of

41:28

control. the downhill slide has

41:30

started and we didn't want that.

41:33

Yeah I mean with him no

41:35

showing some television being sort of loud

41:37

and proud at how shows saying you

41:39

know I'm tired of this Hogan's holding

41:42

me down he's frustrated that he's

41:44

making around 400 grand a year

41:46

in 1998 and he sees his

41:48

peers all around him making a lot

41:50

more money and he knows he's going

41:52

to be able to get that million

41:55

dollars as soon as his contract

41:57

is up. So he's itching to get out of

41:59

here. does wind up on TV

42:01

on October the 5th of 1998

42:04

and that quiet's a little bit

42:06

of the buzz about him leaving

42:09

down just a bit. But I

42:11

do want to mention that it

42:13

came out years later when Paul

42:16

White was trying to leave the

42:18

W. F. And join the the

42:20

ranks of professional boxing that during

42:23

that during that disclosure because that

42:25

did become a legal battle. Well

42:28

America gets a chance to see

42:30

that contract and we learn that

42:32

his initial contract with the WTF

42:35

course we're talking about Paul White

42:37

here Had what was known as

42:39

a weight clause And I know

42:42

that there had been some concerns

42:44

once apart a time about that

42:47

Do you remember putting that in

42:49

or whose idea is it to

42:51

mine is weight under control? It

42:54

was my idea I just see

42:56

it happen too many times, Conrad.

42:58

You know, you got a, you

43:01

got someone that's that extraordinary size-wise,

43:03

yet that checks and balances in

43:06

their contract to make sure that

43:08

they hold true. In other words,

43:10

I'd rather have a 350-pound giant

43:13

than a 450-pound giant. And he

43:15

could be at 450 quicker than

43:17

a hiccup. So, but that's, yeah,

43:20

I put that in there. And

43:22

Vince agreed with it. We had

43:25

to ask the checks and balances

43:27

to make sure that, and he

43:29

hated it. He was annoyed by

43:32

it, and I understand his annoyance,

43:34

but it was, it was just

43:36

necessary. It wasn't personal, but maybe

43:39

it was. But we wanted to

43:41

maintain our investment, and that was

43:44

how we thought it would work.

43:46

That's how we thought it would

43:48

work. That's how we thought it

43:51

would work best, more specifically. So

43:53

he was just Is this a

43:55

no-brainer you gotta? some kind of

43:58

weight provision in his deal to

44:00

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46:42

talk about where we are with W-C-W.

46:44

Those are reports that Eric

46:46

Bishoff needs guys to resign.

46:49

If your contract is coming up

46:51

in the next year, he's not

46:53

gonna do much with you. He's

46:55

having these sort of

46:58

conversations with Chris Jericho

47:00

and Eddie Guerrero with Chris

47:02

Benoit, moving to Guerrero. He's

47:04

also having that conversation with

47:07

the giant. His contract

47:09

is going to come due on

47:11

February 9th, 1999, and

47:14

allegedly W.C.W. makes a

47:16

three-year offer. They offered above

47:18

him from 400 grand to 850.

47:20

The following year he'd be at

47:22

$9.50 and the third year of his deal

47:24

would be for a million bucks. And

47:27

allegedly, this is exactly what's

47:29

written in the torch. Many in

47:31

the industry assume there's

47:33

already been an under-the-table

47:36

agreement between the giant and

47:38

the WWF would have to offer a

47:40

giant somewhere over 700 grand a year

47:42

as a downside guarantee for over five

47:45

years to get him to turn

47:47

down WCD's big guaranteed money. The

47:49

WWF though recently signed Rocky

47:51

Maya to what sources say

47:53

was less than the half a

47:55

million dollar year guarantee and

47:58

Hunter Hearse Helmsley. whose deal

48:00

expires late next year is currently

48:02

negotiating for renewal. His first offers

48:05

have apparently been well below the

48:07

half a million dollar mark. So

48:09

does the giant, is he the

48:12

apple of Vince's eye to break

48:14

that half a million dollar mark?

48:16

So listen, there's lots of discussion

48:18

here about what the rocks making

48:21

about what Triple H is making

48:23

and. Where is this offer going

48:25

to land? At this point, we

48:28

don't know it's a million dollars

48:30

a year for 10 years. Did

48:32

you feel like Vince was going

48:34

to have to break the bank

48:37

to get the big show? Or

48:39

did you already know that, hey,

48:41

Bushwacker Luke's got it worked out,

48:43

a million bucks, that's the number,

48:46

no less. I think the number

48:48

was a million, and I think

48:50

that this was obsessed in getting

48:53

his man. He saw another Andre.

48:55

And Andre had great longevity. He

48:57

was successful. He was, everything was

48:59

good about Andre. And Vince thought

49:02

this is a younger version of

49:04

Andre. So, uh, we, uh, I

49:06

think it was a done deal.

49:09

Like I said earlier, when Vince

49:11

has his mindset on a talent,

49:13

uh, you know, my charge as

49:15

the head of talent is supposed

49:18

to get the got signed. and

49:20

tell me what you want to

49:22

pay him. I'll do my best

49:25

to stay at that number and

49:27

we'll make it happen. So that's

49:29

kind of where we were with

49:31

that deal. It was a hard

49:34

negotiation. We had a number, we

49:36

had a tenure and it seemed

49:38

like it worked out real well

49:40

in that respect. It was easy

49:43

to negotiate. You know when you've

49:45

got guys who are over like

49:47

or over on your program guys

49:50

like the rock guys like triple

49:52

H They've established what they can

49:54

they're helping sort of be the

49:56

flag bears for the company in

49:59

this era. And now you've got

50:01

a guy who hasn't proven himself

50:03

here in the WWF. He's going

50:06

to come in and get an

50:08

even bigger offer. Right. Is there

50:10

any pushback from any of those

50:12

talent? Do you think that they're

50:15

going to take that personally? Because

50:17

we hear that we even heard

50:19

from from Mick Foley before that

50:22

he and Steve Austin, they took

50:24

it personally that. They did not

50:26

get the contract offer coming in

50:28

from W.C.W. that Mark Marrow did.

50:31

And certainly it worked out for

50:33

me, it worked out for Austin.

50:35

But as an administrator, are you

50:37

hearing any belliicking about the offers

50:40

that are coming in for triple

50:42

H and Rock being much slower

50:44

than what we're offering? Yeah, a

50:47

little bit, Conrad, but the thing

50:49

about it, we have to remember

50:51

is that callus are offered downside

50:53

guarantees. Meaning that that's not all

50:56

they're going to make. Right. So

50:58

it gave them hope that if

51:00

they got over and the house

51:03

shows, the lot of events did

51:05

well, that they would be able

51:07

to make more money. Plus it

51:09

had paper to be bonuses as

51:12

long as they were productive. And

51:14

so we had an out in

51:16

that regard. We had a escape

51:18

clause essentially in that matter. It

51:21

wasn't just your own salary. I

51:23

never believed in putting in restures

51:25

on salary. They get complacent. They

51:28

find their comfort zone. And any

51:30

time in the entertainment world, you

51:32

find your comfort zone, you're at

51:34

the wrong location. It just doesn't

51:37

make sense. You know, I can't

51:39

remember who I was talking to.

51:41

Maybe Chris Jericho at one point,

51:44

where, you know, he got a

51:46

lower guarantee than he was making

51:48

it W. But. He had a

51:50

chance to make a lot more

51:53

money. He stayed healthy and stayed

51:55

booked. I felt very confident.

51:57

as the mocker

52:00

in that era

52:02

that he would stay busy

52:04

and if we drew, which we hope we

52:06

would, that he would be making

52:08

extra funds. So he went

52:10

from making a 350 or

52:12

$400 ,000 down the side guarantee

52:14

to making over a million. But

52:17

we had, as I've mentioned here on the

52:19

show before, I think we

52:21

had 21 guys one year

52:23

that made seven figures plus,

52:26

billion plus. So

52:28

it was there to make just a matter

52:30

going out and doing it, getting it done.

52:32

And I liked that concept. I

52:34

liked that theory of how

52:36

we managed, managed

52:40

that particular aspect of the business.

52:43

So it was,

52:45

we were structured differently

52:47

than WCW. You

52:49

know, Eric had his guys, those are

52:51

fair offers, they're good offers. And

52:54

Eric did a great job managing his company.

52:57

But we certainly had a, we

52:59

knew that we had an advantage.

53:02

Those talents could make

53:04

an undisclosed discretionary amount

53:07

in the

53:09

system. House shows,

53:11

paper views, merchandise, all

53:14

these things, these incinerary

53:16

contributions were

53:19

very important. And they

53:21

made guys a lot of money. So

53:24

I'm glad we had that in place. And

53:27

it helped us

53:29

reduce our overhead

53:31

as far as that's

53:33

concerned. So it's a different

53:35

concept that we weren't, our guys are

53:37

not on salary, shall we say. So

53:40

if you're content with your

53:42

downside guarantee, then

53:44

we had a problem. Because

53:46

you didn't want to complacency. This

53:49

didn't work out well for you. It's

53:51

like having a non -commissioned salesperson. I

53:54

see car commercials soon Jacksonville from

53:56

time to time about a non

53:58

-commissioned salespeople. They

54:00

don't get a commission and

54:02

such and that bothers me.

54:05

To me that's not the

54:07

right formula. So we had

54:09

a good system in place

54:11

where guys could legitimately

54:14

make more money if they're

54:16

productive and being

54:18

productive is never a

54:20

bad thing. Well we should

54:22

mention that the giant is

54:25

going to be 27 years

54:27

old when he's coming in.

54:29

some concerns about his weight. It's

54:31

even written in the torch that

54:33

he's gotten up to five hundred

54:35

and five pounds. And well, that

54:37

can certainly take its toll on

54:40

your knees and your joints and

54:42

your back. Maybe it's just not a

54:44

good sign for things to come for

54:46

him and W. B. But a week

54:48

later, it comes out that, according

54:50

to the observer, nearly everyone internally

54:53

considers it close to a

54:55

given that the giant is

54:57

leaving. and that whether officially

54:59

or unofficially that deal is

55:01

already done, he's already given notice

55:04

that even with the huge offer

55:06

from W cW, which is 2.9

55:08

million over three years, that he's

55:11

leaving. So W having the

55:13

giant job for Goldberg on

55:15

television using the jackhammer after

55:18

Goldberg kicked out of the choke slam,

55:20

seems to indicate that the

55:22

company knows he's leaving. Of course,

55:25

the contract's going to expire

55:27

on February 9th, 1999. It

55:30

is interesting to see, you

55:32

know, how talents handle business

55:34

on the way out. And we've

55:36

heard from before guys like Rick

55:38

Claire, who would say that he had a

55:41

deal to go back to W.

55:43

C. W. From the W.

55:45

F. But once he gets

55:47

down to Atlanta. Holy says

55:49

something like, well, after you just

55:51

lost a Mr. Perfect on TV,

55:53

what value do you have to me

55:56

now? I'm really ridiculous. A

55:58

little silly, I can't imagine.

56:00

someone not saying the value

56:02

and Rick Flair after he

56:04

lost on TV or even

56:06

the big show. Does Vince

56:08

give a rip what the

56:10

giant does creatively before he

56:12

comes over? Not really. Yeah,

56:15

not paying attention. It's easily

56:17

eraseable. So no creator did

56:19

have anything to do with

56:21

it. It's the rest of

56:23

it. You're going to put

56:25

people over and if we

56:27

had heard that he was

56:29

reluctant. or refusing more specifically

56:31

to put the talents over,

56:33

then we would have had

56:36

an issue with him, big

56:38

show. But he seemed to

56:40

be doing business of the

56:42

way on his way out.

56:44

You know, one of the

56:46

things I wanted to ask

56:48

you about was, you know,

56:50

the guaranteed value of the

56:52

contract with W. versus the

56:55

downside guarantee with the W.

56:57

with regards to injuries did

56:59

you guys handle them the

57:01

same way or do you

57:03

remember the WWF contracts having

57:05

an injury out where if

57:07

a guy was injured and

57:09

and missed we've heard on

57:11

the W CW side of

57:13

things that they had these

57:16

like 90 day cycles or

57:18

hey we're gonna we're gonna

57:20

elect to not renew you

57:22

based on your inability to

57:24

perform and so at any

57:26

point W CW could sort

57:28

of exit those deals with

57:30

a 90 day out. Was

57:32

there something like that in

57:35

place on the WTF side

57:37

of things or no? Yeah,

57:39

something to protect us. I

57:41

think, I can't remember the

57:43

exact wording of it, but

57:45

there was a clause in

57:47

there in a language in

57:49

there that encouraged the town

57:51

to stay healthy, stay in

57:53

shape, and get their work

57:56

done. Nothing unreasonable, but frankly,

57:58

nothing unreasonable whatsoever whatsoever. So

58:00

you got to take all

58:02

these insurances and have the

58:04

insurances that you're... talent can

58:06

stay healthy and you'll motivate

58:08

him to stay healthy. So

58:10

picture was no different. Maybe

58:12

even a little more so

58:15

because of his size and

58:17

the potential for a guy

58:19

his size to be injured.

58:21

Let's talk a little bit

58:23

about the W. C. W.

58:25

roster. I mean, we know

58:27

that Vince McMahon Covets. Paul

58:29

White and he wants the

58:31

giant on his WWF programming.

58:33

We also know that later

58:36

in the year, we're going

58:38

to see Chris Jericho make

58:40

that jump. So clearly there's

58:42

two big talent that Vince

58:44

lands in 1999 from W.

58:46

C. W. Big Show. And

58:48

Vince was not totally aware

58:50

of who Chris Jericho was.

58:52

That was me. I thought

58:55

he was going to be

58:57

a, he could contribute. And

58:59

because I remember taking Jericho

59:01

to Vincent's house to meet

59:03

with him about his contract

59:05

and his creative and so

59:07

forth, and I remember vividly

59:09

when the meeting was over

59:11

and Jericho left Vincent's house

59:13

in Greenwich, saying to me,

59:16

I didn't realize he was

59:18

that short. Chris was under

59:20

six feet. And I just

59:22

pushed it. I said, he's,

59:24

he can work as a

59:26

baby face, he can work

59:28

as a heel, he can

59:30

work as singles, he can

59:32

work in tags, he's had

59:35

a long, illustrious career, so

59:37

we can use this kid.

59:39

His skill said is unquestionable.

59:41

And of course, Big Show's

59:43

calling card was just the

59:45

other side of that equation.

59:47

His size made him very

59:49

desirable, very desirable. Because nobody

59:51

else looked like it. Nobody

59:53

else was like big show.

59:56

So he was the next

59:58

we hope at that time.

1:00:00

It's going to be the

1:00:02

next Andre. But we overbooked

1:00:04

him and he was used

1:00:06

too much. He was like

1:00:08

I said earlier. Big show

1:00:10

was the new toy, the

1:00:12

toy box, and instead of

1:00:14

being used judiciously and gradually,

1:00:17

we used him all the

1:00:19

time. And it took a

1:00:21

lot of his effectiveness away

1:00:23

from him because he was

1:00:25

overexposed. I

1:00:28

do want to ask you

1:00:31

about, you know, the, is

1:00:33

the WCP roster at the

1:00:35

time? You said that maybe

1:00:37

Jericho wasn't a priority. We

1:00:39

know that Big Show is

1:00:41

a priority. Was there anybody

1:00:43

else on the WCP roster

1:00:46

that really caught Vinca's eye

1:00:48

besides the giant? Not really,

1:00:50

because Vincet did pay attention

1:00:52

to the TV shows. I

1:00:54

wanted Benois, and I wanted

1:00:56

Jericho, and I... You know,

1:00:58

all those radical guys that

1:01:01

came in, they're small, but

1:01:03

God damn they could work.

1:01:05

They're amazing workers. At that

1:01:07

time, Dean Malenco was about

1:01:09

as good as anybody in

1:01:11

the world, but he was

1:01:13

also five eight. So I

1:01:16

had to do a little

1:01:18

selling there on that deal,

1:01:20

but you know, I feel

1:01:22

like I convinced Vince that

1:01:24

this fact is, is that

1:01:26

these guys, you know, they're

1:01:28

smaller in your eyes. They

1:01:31

wrestle bigger than they are.

1:01:33

And I still believe that

1:01:35

B. Milinko is one of

1:01:37

the valued member right now

1:01:39

of the AEW team as

1:01:41

a producer. A lot of

1:01:43

the great matches you see

1:01:46

on TV are have Milinko's

1:01:48

fingerprints all over because he's

1:01:50

involved in laying out the

1:01:52

matches for the talents and

1:01:54

coaching them up. And I

1:01:56

looked at things like that,

1:01:58

because they can't wrestle forever.

1:02:01

So when the wrestling days...

1:02:03

have ended, what do we

1:02:05

have? Well, we have a

1:02:07

coach that has great skills

1:02:09

that's unique. I thought the

1:02:11

picture like that a lot.

1:02:13

Vince, not so much, he

1:02:16

was looking for immediate gratification

1:02:18

for talents that he could

1:02:20

use today, tomorrow, this weekend.

1:02:22

So we had a little

1:02:24

difference of opinion in that

1:02:26

situation. I can say

1:02:28

to my new Samsung Galaxy S-25 Ultra,

1:02:31

I find a keto-friendly restaurant nearby and

1:02:33

text it to Beth and Steve. And

1:02:35

it does without me lifting a finger,

1:02:37

so I can get in more squats

1:02:39

anywhere I can. One, two, three. Will

1:02:41

that be cash or credit? Credit,

1:02:43

four. Galaxy S-25 Ultra. The AI

1:02:46

companion that does the heavy lifting,

1:02:48

so you can do you. Get

1:02:50

yours at samsung.com. Compatable, select after

1:02:53

Google Gemini, results may very based

1:02:55

on input check responses for accuracy.

1:06:00

she responded because you're so

1:06:02

tall. And he responded with

1:06:04

another reason, allegedly whipped it

1:06:07

out and began rubbing on her. She

1:06:09

was claiming she was going to

1:06:11

file a civil suit after the

1:06:13

criminal charges were dropped, apparently

1:06:16

because of the giant's size, the police

1:06:18

were scared to death the next day

1:06:20

when they were given word to

1:06:22

arrest him. And they sent 24

1:06:24

officers to the Mid-South Many WWW

1:06:27

wrestlers went to jail to give

1:06:29

him moral support. It appears DDP

1:06:31

is taking on the task of

1:06:33

convincing him to stay with the

1:06:35

company. So listen, this gets, all

1:06:38

the charges are dropped and this

1:06:40

goes away, it's clearly proven that

1:06:42

this was not a real thing.

1:06:44

This did not happen, he was

1:06:46

not found guilty, he found innocent,

1:06:48

all charges are dropped. But

1:06:50

it's not the kind of news you

1:06:52

want out there about your new signee.

1:06:55

Now remember his contract comes

1:06:57

up in February of 99.

1:06:59

This is December of 98. He is two

1:07:01

months away from the biggest payday

1:07:04

of his life. And now he's got

1:07:06

these allegations that by the way

1:07:08

all charges were dropped. So I

1:07:10

can't say that clearly enough here.

1:07:13

But it has to be on your

1:07:15

radar and Vince can't be happy about

1:07:17

this. He wasn't happy and you know

1:07:19

what we're done and what kind of

1:07:22

character this guy have. Could this

1:07:24

be true? It could be true,

1:07:26

but it wasn't. So it was

1:07:29

a it was a compelling

1:07:31

time to say the least for

1:07:33

a big show and us. We

1:07:36

didn't want to hire a

1:07:38

guy that was a bad seed

1:07:40

and but it was proven

1:07:42

that he wasn't. So and

1:07:44

he had no more issues

1:07:46

since then. So and he had

1:07:49

no more issues since then.

1:07:51

So that told me that.

1:07:53

This thing, maybe it was a

1:07:55

little trumped up

1:07:57

or somebody overreacted.

1:08:00

That's how I looked at

1:08:02

it. So I wanted to look

1:08:04

at it. But we did all

1:08:06

of our due diligence. We talked

1:08:08

to the police officers. We talked

1:08:10

to the Memphis people. And it

1:08:13

just was a, just didn't make

1:08:15

sense at the end of the

1:08:17

day, which is why the charges

1:08:19

are dropped. It's such a crazy

1:08:22

time for this story to come

1:08:24

out too. I mean, right before

1:08:26

he signs. By the way, we

1:08:28

should mention, there's other reports that

1:08:30

come out a couple of weeks

1:08:33

later, that the big show, the

1:08:35

future big show, the giant, as

1:08:37

we know him at that time,

1:08:39

he's lost 35 pounds. He's gone

1:08:41

for 505 pounds down to 470.

1:08:44

He's trying to get himself in

1:08:46

shape before he goes to work,

1:08:48

prevents McMahon. And allegedly, maybe there's

1:08:50

been a change of heart. We

1:08:53

started to hear reports that he's

1:08:55

asking veterans in the WCP locker

1:08:57

room. Should I leave and go

1:08:59

to events or should I stick

1:09:01

around? Some of the veterans think

1:09:04

there's no way that Vince can

1:09:06

even come close to matching W.C.W's

1:09:08

offer, which is 85950 and a

1:09:10

million bucks across three years. So

1:09:13

2.9 million dollars across three years.

1:09:15

But we know that Vince is

1:09:17

going to beat that offer. It's

1:09:19

going to be a million dollars

1:09:21

a year and it's going to

1:09:24

be a 10-year deal. But some

1:09:26

of it comes down to, hey,

1:09:28

how are they going to treat

1:09:30

me? And it's written in the

1:09:32

observer that Eric Bischoff allegedly, here

1:09:35

it is, Bischoff consistent with his

1:09:37

reputation as boss of W.C.W. verbally

1:09:39

demeaned him because he could over

1:09:41

the last couple of years, calling

1:09:44

him fat and lazy in front

1:09:46

of others. Giant has more confidence

1:09:48

that McMahon will handle his career

1:09:50

better in the long run in

1:09:52

a much more effective fashion than

1:09:55

W. I don't know how much

1:09:57

of that I believe, but clearly

1:09:59

he's got his mind made up.

1:10:01

Did you heard that the bishop

1:10:04

could demean talent like calling him

1:10:06

fat and lazy in front of

1:10:08

him? I haven't heard. that before?

1:10:10

Is that news for you or

1:10:12

do you believe that? I haven't

1:10:15

heard that to any extent Conrad

1:10:17

to be honest with you. That's

1:10:19

not how you motivate people. No.

1:10:21

Eric's too smart to follow that

1:10:23

trail I think. But it was

1:10:26

just a you just don't do

1:10:28

that because that's not how you're

1:10:30

going to ingratiate yourself, your soldiers

1:10:32

and he was the biggest soldier

1:10:35

of them all. He had the

1:10:37

potential to draw the most money.

1:10:39

And for all your baby faces,

1:10:41

your building, he's the ideal opponent

1:10:43

because he always gave the, and

1:10:46

the storyline, a chance for the

1:10:48

baby face to not prevail and

1:10:50

be challenged. So that's kind of

1:10:52

how I looked at that deal,

1:10:54

but I had never heard that

1:10:57

story about Eric demeaning talent. He's

1:10:59

too smart for that Conrad. You

1:11:01

know him better than anybody. Eric

1:11:03

does a great job here on

1:11:06

the adifery network with his podcast.

1:11:08

So I just have a hard

1:11:10

time believing that to be true.

1:11:12

I did too. Something I don't

1:11:14

have a hard time believing though

1:11:17

is that Bishoff now sees this

1:11:19

as a priority and gets contracts

1:11:21

extended for Rick and Scott Steiner

1:11:23

for Chris Benoit, for Eddie Guerrero,

1:11:26

for Dean Malinko. They're all coming

1:11:28

to terms for a contract extension.

1:11:30

And you know, I guess we're

1:11:32

knee deep in the war now.

1:11:34

He knows he's probably going to

1:11:37

lose the giant. It's written like

1:11:39

it's a 98% chance that he's

1:11:41

going to leave. And I guess

1:11:43

Dave has sort of soured on

1:11:45

the future big show as well.

1:11:48

Dave wrote, he may get liposuction

1:11:50

done so he could start and

1:11:52

tighten without the big gut. I

1:11:54

guess it must be totally old-fashioned

1:11:57

and out of date to suggest

1:11:59

things. like diet and exercise. And

1:12:01

of course, that's just Dave being

1:12:03

Dave, but Paul. given interviews explaining

1:12:05

how he really wasn't taking enough

1:12:08

care and adjusting his diet in

1:12:10

his 20s as a reminder my

1:12:12

man has a growth hormone that's

1:12:14

flowing through him that has allowed

1:12:17

him to become that giant the

1:12:19

pituitary tumor and when it gets

1:12:21

removed well that's going to represent

1:12:23

a whole new set of physical

1:12:25

challenges this is not he's not

1:12:28

just your normal human being at

1:12:30

this point. So he's going to

1:12:32

have to adjust and he's going

1:12:34

to have to pivot and that's

1:12:36

something when people talk about big

1:12:39

shows weight fluctuating. I don't think

1:12:41

they recognize that he had surgery

1:12:43

done and that totally changed his

1:12:45

body composition. He does it to

1:12:48

extend his life but things are

1:12:50

going to be a little different

1:12:52

after you have a surgery like

1:12:54

that right Jim? Yeah you got

1:12:56

to watch what you eat. You

1:12:59

got to exercise there's going to

1:13:01

be a plan in place. And

1:13:03

you can't consume more calories than

1:13:05

you burn. It's really simple, just

1:13:07

man. And so he had issues

1:13:10

with that as we started, as

1:13:12

we talked about in the very

1:13:14

beginning of this program today, that

1:13:16

was always his biggest enemy, his

1:13:19

pronoun boy, being big show. You

1:13:21

know, I watched a lot of

1:13:23

sports Conrad, as you know, like

1:13:25

you do. Not damn I've never

1:13:27

heard so many announcements used to

1:13:30

pronounce in my life. Even if

1:13:32

pro wrestling, he had him. He's

1:13:34

angry. Who the fuck is he?

1:13:36

Who is that? I don't get

1:13:39

it. And I don't think it's,

1:13:41

it takes away from the broadcast.

1:13:43

It's a lazy man's way of

1:13:45

announcing. And I know going back

1:13:47

and listening to some of my

1:13:50

old tapes, it's prevalent. And I

1:13:52

did the same thing at times.

1:13:54

Not proud of it, but that's

1:13:56

not how you announce a sporting

1:13:58

event. Use names. Use descriptions.

1:14:02

Don't say he or she or

1:14:04

they. It's a, like I said, a

1:14:06

lazy man's way of

1:14:08

broadcasting. Just don't do

1:14:10

it if you're a

1:14:12

broadcaster. And we heard it

1:14:15

a lot over the Super Bowl

1:14:17

weekend, throwing down

1:14:19

city. It just annoys the

1:14:21

shit out of me. So that's

1:14:24

another topic from

1:14:26

the time. But in any event,

1:14:29

big show is he always had

1:14:31

that issue weight. I saw him

1:14:33

here recently at

1:14:35

AEW event because he's

1:14:37

under contract AEW

1:14:40

at this point in time

1:14:42

I believe and he had

1:14:44

lost weight he looked good

1:14:46

and so he's finally

1:14:48

getting his act together

1:14:50

as far as his weight

1:14:52

loss regiment and what he

1:14:55

eats and how he exercises.

1:14:57

So he's finally getting it, but

1:15:00

it sure is late in the game for

1:15:02

that. We got to spend just

1:15:04

a minute and talk about an

1:15:06

internal memo that I guess

1:15:08

people have seen from W.

1:15:11

W. It's a priority list

1:15:13

of talent that they feel like they

1:15:15

need to resign. Two of those talents

1:15:18

include Sting and D. D. P.

1:15:20

They both resign here. Sting does

1:15:22

a deal for four years at six

1:15:24

and a half million. DDPs around

1:15:26

900 grand a year. The Steiners

1:15:29

were around 700. Think about

1:15:31

that. Think about, I'm sorry

1:15:33

to interrupt you, think about

1:15:36

that Conrad, what you just

1:15:38

said. Staying at 600K, seeing

1:15:40

at 1.5 a year, 6.5 million. That's

1:15:43

great. I thought I got

1:15:45

confused there. Well, I thought he

1:15:47

was making less than DDP.

1:15:49

DDPs making 900, things making

1:15:51

1. 1.5, the Steiners are

1:15:53

700. And the only two that aren't going

1:15:56

to be signed that are supposed to be

1:15:58

priority on this memo that comes. out is

1:16:00

a big show and and

1:16:02

Chris Jericho and I guess

1:16:04

as the story goes Eric

1:16:06

Bischoff was trying to use

1:16:08

his power DDP who has

1:16:11

a relationship with the big

1:16:13

show to try to get

1:16:15

him to stay and it's

1:16:17

written here. Giant though in

1:16:19

the last week is openly

1:16:21

told people he's pretty set

1:16:23

on going to the WTF

1:16:25

because he believes Vince McMahon

1:16:27

can turn him into a

1:16:29

legendary star over the next

1:16:31

10 or 15 years. But

1:16:33

in W CW he's going

1:16:35

to be just another wrestler.

1:16:37

He has aspirations to not

1:16:39

just make great money but

1:16:42

make a name for himself

1:16:44

and he's convinced that the

1:16:46

WDF is more likely to

1:16:48

do that for him. He

1:16:50

is just 26 years old.

1:16:52

He's going to turn 27.

1:16:54

as his contract is expiring.

1:16:56

For comparison, MJF right now

1:16:58

is 29. So Daniel Garcia

1:17:00

is slightly younger than what

1:17:02

the big show was. For

1:17:04

instance, he's 25, I think

1:17:06

he'll be 26 in May.

1:17:08

So we're just trying to

1:17:10

stress to you here, just

1:17:12

how young Big Show is.

1:17:15

Did you share the same

1:17:17

vision? for the giant and

1:17:19

the WWF that Vince did.

1:17:21

Did you think he could

1:17:23

be this mega star? Or

1:17:25

were you not as bullish

1:17:27

as Vince was? I don't

1:17:29

know if anybody's ever as

1:17:31

bullish as Vince is on

1:17:33

anything, but he certainly motivated

1:17:35

me to sign the big

1:17:37

guy and Vince had these

1:17:39

amazing plans for big show.

1:17:41

You know, I lived through

1:17:43

the Andre the China era.

1:17:46

I was in territories for

1:17:48

Andre to come in. once

1:17:50

or twice a year for

1:17:52

a few days. I worked

1:17:54

for cowboy in mid-south, for

1:17:56

example. And he always drew.

1:17:58

He was always the layup.

1:18:00

Andre was just a... he

1:18:02

was a moneymaker. He so

1:18:04

ticked. Here's the attraction that

1:18:06

people couldn't wait to see.

1:18:08

And so I had a

1:18:10

good feel for this whole

1:18:12

thing. Vince sold me that

1:18:14

he could make the big

1:18:17

show, this mega star that

1:18:19

he envisioned, Allah, the Andre

1:18:21

the Giant. We know that

1:18:23

DDP is going to be

1:18:25

working with the giant at

1:18:27

Starcade. This goes down in

1:18:29

1998. They go 12 minutes

1:18:31

and 45 seconds. DDP, of

1:18:33

course, gets the win. And

1:18:35

Dave writes, the giant regained

1:18:37

that 30 pounds he recently

1:18:39

lost. So whatever discipline we

1:18:41

thought he gained with the

1:18:43

thinking of going to Titan,

1:18:45

well, that lasted about a

1:18:48

week. And he would continue

1:18:50

to write. They're hopeful in

1:18:52

the WWF that when the

1:18:54

giant debuts in mid-February, he

1:18:56

can be a major issue

1:18:58

for Wrestleania. But there is

1:19:00

concern regarding his conditioning, his

1:19:02

discipline, and his attitude. And

1:19:04

the fact that he started

1:19:06

losing weight, then put it

1:19:08

all back on, doesn't speak

1:19:10

well for a change in

1:19:12

life. And frankly, the WDF

1:19:14

road schedule and demands in

1:19:16

the ring are considerably tougher

1:19:18

than W. So you're hearing,

1:19:21

Dave sort of right that

1:19:23

there are concerns. Are you

1:19:25

addressing any of that with

1:19:27

him up front? Do you

1:19:29

have any issue conversations with

1:19:31

Big Show? What can you

1:19:33

tell us about that? Several

1:19:35

conversations regarding his weight. I

1:19:37

stress on day one how

1:19:39

important it is to get

1:19:41

your weight under control to

1:19:43

adjust your eating habits to

1:19:45

adjust your exercise regimen. That

1:19:47

was an ongoing conversation. I

1:19:49

don't know that we ever

1:19:52

had a conversation during that

1:19:54

negotiation. that did not include

1:19:56

his diet, his weight, and

1:19:58

his physical... conditioning. Your body

1:20:00

starts breaking down and for

1:20:02

a great big guy like

1:20:04

that it breaks down pretty

1:20:06

down fast. So yeah we

1:20:08

had those conversations a lot

1:20:10

ad nauseum. I got tired

1:20:12

of talking about it. It's

1:20:14

just it's frustrating as hell

1:20:16

to be honest with you

1:20:18

and all about you can

1:20:20

make these millions of dollars

1:20:23

for years to come if

1:20:25

you simply lose weight. and

1:20:27

get in condition. It may

1:20:29

sound simple and may sound

1:20:31

elementary, but it's so important.

1:20:33

It was the issue for

1:20:35

him. And that was our

1:20:37

biggest concern. And we can

1:20:39

we help him manage his

1:20:41

weight and conditioning because once

1:20:43

he gets a little older

1:20:45

and his body starts breaking

1:20:47

down, which it will, then

1:20:49

where are we? It's too

1:20:51

late then to make this

1:20:53

thing work. And the fact

1:20:56

that, you know, Shane McMahon

1:20:58

was a huge big show

1:21:00

fan. I think he gave

1:21:02

him his name. But Shane

1:21:04

just fell in love with

1:21:06

the character because he believed

1:21:08

in his dad's prophecy that

1:21:10

big show is going to

1:21:12

be the next Andre the

1:21:14

Giant. Shane like many of

1:21:16

us grew up as an

1:21:18

Andre the Giant fan like

1:21:20

many of us grew up

1:21:22

as an Andre the Giant

1:21:24

fan. and knew what he

1:21:27

did. He'd always, when he

1:21:29

would play the garden, he'd

1:21:31

sell it out. And so,

1:21:33

I don't know, I, he

1:21:35

got frustrating, Conrad, because there's

1:21:37

just one basic topic. And

1:21:39

you get your fat ass

1:21:41

in shape. That's what we

1:21:43

need. If you can do

1:21:45

it, then we're golden. If

1:21:47

you can't do it, then

1:21:49

we gotta go to Plan

1:21:51

B. And Plan B is

1:21:53

not one you're gonna like.

1:21:57

Hollywood Hogan appeared on the mankind.

1:22:00

in the morning radio show based

1:22:02

on Chicago and he's going to

1:22:04

do this interview and when it

1:22:07

comes up about the giant, that's

1:22:09

what men's words. He just says

1:22:12

he's gone. We also would see

1:22:14

Bischoff show up on TV and

1:22:16

he's going to start referring to

1:22:19

Kevin Nash as the NWO corporate

1:22:21

giant. Maybe this is tongue in

1:22:24

cheek because the WWF allegedly wants

1:22:26

to call Paul White Titan. the

1:22:28

corporate giant. That's the rumor that

1:22:31

we read in early 1999. We

1:22:33

know ultimately he becomes known as

1:22:36

the big show. Do you remember

1:22:38

it ever being discussed? Hey, we

1:22:40

might call him Titan the corporate

1:22:43

giant. Yeah, casually, but it is

1:22:45

so hokey that it didn't stick.

1:22:48

Like I said earlier Shane, getting

1:22:50

the name of the big show

1:22:52

and it seemed to fit. Well,

1:22:57

there's some discussion about the giant

1:22:59

and W. C. W. Before he

1:23:01

jumps, we should mention it. The

1:23:03

observer would say there's a ton

1:23:05

of heat on Lex Lugar and

1:23:08

the giant for the deal they

1:23:10

pulled on the January 5th taping's

1:23:12

in Gainesville, Georgia. Giant came out

1:23:14

to the ring in jeans. He

1:23:16

didn't even get dressed for his

1:23:18

main event with Lex Lugar. They

1:23:21

got in the ring and basically

1:23:23

did the Hogan Nash deal where

1:23:25

Giant laid down and they both

1:23:27

laughed. Fans went nuts because this

1:23:29

was their 10-second main event. A

1:23:32

lot of the wrestlers backstage were

1:23:34

pissed off too because W.W. wasn't

1:23:36

even packing the 1400 seat building

1:23:38

and this is going to drive

1:23:40

fans away from future shows in

1:23:42

that city. I mean listen I

1:23:45

know he's young but goodness gracious

1:23:47

if the reports are out there

1:23:49

that... You're hard to do business

1:23:51

with, you're unreliable. I mean, goodness,

1:23:53

this guy's shooting himself on the

1:23:55

foot, it feels like, on the

1:23:58

way out. Absolutely. He is suspect

1:24:00

judgment. I was getting bad advice.

1:24:02

or he thought he was bulletproof.

1:24:04

What? I don't know. But it

1:24:06

was disheartening to say the least

1:24:08

for the business in general. And

1:24:11

if a guy will wear two

1:24:13

coats of paint once he'll wear

1:24:15

it again. So I just I

1:24:17

was very disappointed Paul on that

1:24:19

deal. I mean who gives a

1:24:21

shit? Gainesville Georgia I forgot. and

1:24:24

there are many many times doing

1:24:26

television it's like you said it's

1:24:28

1400 seats who really gives a

1:24:30

shit and overthinking it that's what

1:24:32

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1:24:34

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1:24:37

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1:24:39

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hey let's talk about it man

1:27:38

we know that big show is is going

1:27:40

to be coming in and we

1:27:42

know that he's rumored to start on

1:27:45

the February 14th paper view

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show that does become the

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case when he's now on the

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roster well the apple of vences

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i The number one acquisition target

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is Chris Jericho. We know

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that that's your name. But Big

1:28:00

Show does take a little

1:28:02

bit of initiative before he

1:28:04

debuts and it's written in

1:28:06

the observer on January 18th

1:28:08

that he underwent liposuction on

1:28:11

his stomach. Now I know

1:28:13

that that's going to get

1:28:15

some criticism online, but I

1:28:17

want to remind you, the

1:28:19

dude has changed his genetic

1:28:21

makeup when he has that

1:28:23

pituitary removal. So I understand,

1:28:25

you know, people have to

1:28:27

do what they have to

1:28:29

do for their health. And

1:28:31

I also understand. wanting to

1:28:33

make the right first impression

1:28:35

for Vince. Did you hear

1:28:37

that he had liposuction done

1:28:39

before he made the jump?

1:28:41

Yeah, I roll my eyes.

1:28:43

It's a shortcut. Another shortcut.

1:28:46

And watch what you eat.

1:28:48

Watch what you consume. That's

1:28:50

important. And we weren't hearing

1:28:52

that. You know, all up

1:28:54

the territory gland shit, everything

1:28:56

else. Now liposuction. shortcut after

1:28:58

shortcut after shortcut and it

1:29:00

was just it was disconcerting

1:29:02

by frankly. Here's what's interesting.

1:29:04

The giant officially starts under

1:29:06

contract on February 10th and

1:29:08

on that same day they're

1:29:10

going to have him appearing

1:29:12

at the toy fair for

1:29:14

the WWF. He's going to

1:29:16

debut as soon as the

1:29:18

pay-per-view with the subsequent tapings,

1:29:20

but we're bringing him... to

1:29:23

New York for the toy

1:29:25

fair. His debut with the

1:29:27

WWF isn't actually on camera.

1:29:29

I didn't know that until

1:29:31

we did research here. Is

1:29:33

this just, hey man, if

1:29:35

we've got a convention, we

1:29:37

know we're gonna have literally

1:29:39

the biggest human being in

1:29:41

the building. Let's have him

1:29:43

at our booth. That's good

1:29:45

for business. Don't just kick

1:29:47

the can. Let's, I know

1:29:49

it's getting ahead of what

1:29:51

we're seeing on TV, but

1:29:53

I agree with that, O'

1:29:55

Conrad. I think you do

1:29:58

the same thing. Yeah, what

1:30:00

book in there because I've

1:30:02

always. people talking so yeah

1:30:04

he was a featured act

1:30:06

at the toy fair and

1:30:08

toy fair is a big

1:30:10

deal for any company so

1:30:12

he was also a big

1:30:14

giant action figures are going

1:30:16

to be coming out sooner

1:30:18

than later no doubt about

1:30:20

it also coming out sooner

1:30:22

rather than later is the

1:30:24

woman who accused the giant

1:30:26

of exposing himself to her

1:30:28

although the charges were dropped

1:30:30

by the Memphis police the

1:30:33

next day She did turn

1:30:35

around and sue W.C.W. and

1:30:37

Paul White for half a

1:30:39

million dollars. When you hear

1:30:41

that there's a civil lawsuit

1:30:43

to follow, and you gotta

1:30:45

be shaking your head like

1:30:47

damnation, this guy's just got

1:30:49

the worst luck of all.

1:30:51

Yeah, well, bad decisions. Don't

1:30:53

leave yourself vulnerable. And that's

1:30:55

what he did in that

1:30:57

respect. You know, though he

1:30:59

may be totally innocent. And

1:31:01

he was proven as such.

1:31:03

And still, you put yourself

1:31:05

into a... position that was

1:31:08

very undesirable and not smart.

1:31:10

Nobody ever said he was

1:31:12

good at junior taxes. He

1:31:14

made some bad decisions. There's

1:31:16

a torch story about how

1:31:18

much influence Kevin Nash is

1:31:20

getting in W CW and

1:31:22

how his influence is continuing

1:31:24

to grow in W CW.

1:31:26

And it's also been made

1:31:28

clear that Holkogan and Kevin

1:31:30

Nash seemed to respect Vince

1:31:32

McMahon more than they do

1:31:34

Eric Bischoff, to the point

1:31:36

that people are saying, Holkogan

1:31:38

has been instrumental in helping

1:31:40

getting the giant signed with

1:31:43

Vince McMahon's WWF. And Kevin

1:31:45

Nash has apparently confided in

1:31:47

friends that he wants to

1:31:49

return to the WWW contract

1:31:51

expires. He'd like to end

1:31:53

his career as a gray-haired

1:31:55

big daddy cool. I mean

1:31:57

do you think that was

1:31:59

always the plan for everybody

1:32:01

like in the late 90s

1:32:03

wrestlers understood that you might.

1:32:05

have an opportunity to make

1:32:07

more money in W. C.

1:32:09

W. But you're gonna have

1:32:11

more fun and you're gonna

1:32:13

do wrestling the right way

1:32:15

and maybe be a bigger

1:32:18

star working for Vince McMahon.

1:32:20

Was that the common thinking

1:32:22

amongst the talent in the

1:32:24

late 90s? I think so.

1:32:26

I think so. I think

1:32:28

everybody had the ultimate goal

1:32:30

of returning or being in

1:32:32

the W. W. F. And

1:32:34

taking their chances rolling the

1:32:36

dice that is a strong

1:32:38

company. with stronger leadership. You

1:32:40

know, a lot of guys

1:32:42

did not favorably compare Vince

1:32:44

to Eric. Vince was the

1:32:46

chosen one in that respect.

1:32:48

Track record, nothing else was

1:32:50

imperative and important. So I

1:32:53

think a lot of guys,

1:32:55

they may not tell you,

1:32:57

but they had to druthers.

1:32:59

They'd rather be in... W-W-E-N-W-C-W

1:33:01

for future earnings and your,

1:33:03

you know, your personality development,

1:33:05

things of that nature, things

1:33:07

that they perceived that Eric

1:33:09

could not do for them.

1:33:11

And Vince had great vision,

1:33:13

great track record. And I

1:33:15

think a lot of guys

1:33:17

said at the same release

1:33:19

that he's our guy. And

1:33:21

it's somehow or another we

1:33:23

got to get back to

1:33:25

his leadership to maximize our

1:33:27

earnings. And quite frankly, at

1:33:30

the end of the day,

1:33:32

that's what it's all about,

1:33:34

maximizing your earnings. I do

1:33:36

want to ask you, you

1:33:38

know, when you're taking a

1:33:40

look at the way we're

1:33:42

going to debut in, it's

1:33:44

the St. Valentine's Day Massacre

1:33:46

paper view. Usually,

1:33:48

when we're knee deep in

1:33:51

this Monday night war, we

1:33:53

want our big surprises to

1:33:55

happen on TV. Well, the

1:33:57

biggest surprise of all, the

1:33:59

debut of the big show.

1:34:01

happens on paper view. The

1:34:03

main event is going down

1:34:05

in Memphis is St. Valentine's

1:34:07

Day Massacre. It's Vince McMahon

1:34:09

versus Stonecold Steve Austin in

1:34:11

the big cage. And there

1:34:13

is a moment where Paul

1:34:15

White comes up from under

1:34:17

the ring to save Vince

1:34:19

McMahon. He throws Steve Austin

1:34:21

into the cage and he's

1:34:23

so damn strong that his

1:34:25

strength. causes Austin to just

1:34:27

break through the cage, he

1:34:29

collapses to the floor, and

1:34:31

he wins. This is the

1:34:33

way we debut him, and

1:34:35

it happens on paper view,

1:34:37

not television. What do you

1:34:39

think of that decision, Jim?

1:34:41

Not bad. As long as

1:34:43

I don't know how much

1:34:45

we advertised big show being

1:34:47

there if we advertised it

1:34:49

being there at all. It

1:34:51

was a surprise. He's not

1:34:53

promoted at all. So a

1:34:56

disllexus process. And so... It's

1:34:58

arguable. You know, I might

1:35:00

have put him on TV

1:35:02

first and then built to

1:35:04

the paper view might have

1:35:06

been a better idea in

1:35:08

hindsight. Or could not be.

1:35:10

Surprises are good. Fans like

1:35:12

surprises and fans like new.

1:35:14

You can check both those

1:35:16

boxes. The

1:35:19

torch would write Paul White did

1:35:22

not sit under the ring for

1:35:24

the entire paper view. He was

1:35:26

backstage during most of the event

1:35:29

meeting and greeting the WFF wrestlers

1:35:31

and staff. When the cage was

1:35:33

constructed, a box was rolled to

1:35:36

the ring and he was inside.

1:35:38

He crawled out of the box

1:35:40

right under the ring and he

1:35:43

was undetected. If White looked thinner

1:35:45

than a few weeks ago in

1:35:47

W, it's because he is thinner.

1:35:49

He had about 20 pounds removed

1:35:52

by a liposuction section. He still

1:35:54

needs to lose more weight in

1:35:56

order to get into ring shape

1:35:59

through his cardio workouts. But yeah,

1:36:01

we've got him debuting busting up

1:36:03

through the ring and he looks

1:36:06

a little thinner and they... so

1:36:08

he's had 20 pounds removed. But

1:36:10

Dave Meltzer can't help himself. And

1:36:13

he writes, they made Leon White

1:36:15

a jobber because he couldn't get

1:36:17

his weight down and it was

1:36:19

hurting his stamina. And then they

1:36:22

went and signed Nelson Frazier Paul

1:36:24

White and Brian Hefron. Next thing

1:36:26

you know, they'll start firing undercard

1:36:29

guys for failing drug tests. That

1:36:31

is kind of hard to wrap

1:36:33

your head around. We're seemingly pushing

1:36:36

Vader down the card because he's

1:36:38

gained weight, but we're signing back.

1:36:40

This are all white and the

1:36:43

blue mainly. Do you think with

1:36:45

the benefit of hindsight, we were

1:36:47

we were punishing Vader for no

1:36:49

damn good reason here? Is there

1:36:52

a double standard or how would

1:36:54

you reconcile that in your mind,

1:36:56

Jim? Well, we try to encourage

1:36:59

Leon to lose weight. I say

1:37:01

is the Duke weight loss planning.

1:37:03

And You know, he ended up

1:37:06

gaining weight while he was there,

1:37:08

sneaking out and getting chicken. So,

1:37:10

uh, I don't think we're punishing

1:37:13

anybody. We tried to explain, you

1:37:15

know, you can't do this. You

1:37:17

know, we're weighing you every week

1:37:19

now, and you're gaining weight. So

1:37:22

there showed no commitment, no discipline,

1:37:24

and nobody was a bigger fan

1:37:26

of Vader than me. I believe

1:37:29

that he was one of the

1:37:31

great attractions of all time. An

1:37:33

athletic big man will draw money

1:37:36

more often than not, but he

1:37:38

showed no commitment to losing weight

1:37:40

and getting himself in shape. And

1:37:43

Leon was a great athlete. Great

1:37:45

athlete. He came up through the

1:37:47

ranks. He played for the Rams.

1:37:49

He was under a lot of

1:37:52

people's... wing as far as less

1:37:54

concerned and he worked himself into

1:37:56

quite the shoot in that regard.

1:37:59

So I I don't

1:38:01

think we're picking on Leon. Leon

1:38:03

is well aware of what we

1:38:05

needed. And the scales don't lie.

1:38:07

So that's kind of where we

1:38:09

left that situation. It's just too

1:38:11

bad because we didn't get as

1:38:13

much out of Leon and W.W.E.

1:38:15

as it could have if he

1:38:17

had been a little bit more

1:38:19

stringent on his diet and what

1:38:21

he was eating, how he was

1:38:23

training. Well, he was a great

1:38:25

attraction without question. We

1:38:29

got to talk about once

1:38:31

we actually see Big Shell

1:38:33

on TV, he is going

1:38:35

to be interfering in a

1:38:37

title match with the Rock

1:38:39

and Mankind in Birmingham. So

1:38:41

the rock's going to win

1:38:43

the title with a little

1:38:45

bit of help from Paul

1:38:47

White. And he's out here

1:38:49

wearing a shirt that says

1:38:51

no gimmicks needed. What do

1:38:53

you think about the way

1:38:56

we introduce him to the

1:38:58

WWF audience? First in the

1:39:00

main event. of the the

1:39:02

pay-per-view with Vince and Austin

1:39:04

and then the next night

1:39:06

interfering in the world title

1:39:08

match with the rock and

1:39:10

mankind but just wearing a

1:39:12

plain black t-shirt that says

1:39:14

no gimmicks needed what do

1:39:16

you think of this debut

1:39:18

here although it's pretty blunt

1:39:20

pretty accurate in that regard

1:39:23

very subtle he didn't have

1:39:25

a t-shirt as you as

1:39:27

we saw there had a

1:39:29

small logo on it It

1:39:31

wasn't full chest, but it

1:39:33

spoke volumes as to what

1:39:35

we hoped he would be.

1:39:37

He was the gimmick. His

1:39:39

size was the gimmick, and

1:39:41

that's how I looked at

1:39:43

it. It didn't bother me

1:39:45

one way or the other.

1:39:47

It was a t-shirt. I've

1:39:51

always wondered is there a different

1:39:53

way because we're going to be

1:39:55

examining sort of the stop and

1:39:58

starts throughout his career as we

1:40:00

continue to tell the story in

1:40:02

the. future, but it does feel

1:40:05

like of all the ways we

1:40:07

could have debuted him. Maybe this

1:40:09

wasn't the biggest best flash, and

1:40:12

I know we're getting him in

1:40:14

the mix. I mean, think about

1:40:16

who we're having him rub elbows

1:40:19

with, mankind, the rock, Vince McMahon,

1:40:21

Stonecold, but it just, I don't

1:40:23

know, it doesn't feel like this

1:40:26

was the highest and best use.

1:40:28

We'll figure that out, but I

1:40:30

wish that Magic Spoon existed back

1:40:33

then. Because I want to sat

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him down. All listen. We all

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