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at ProfitFirstApp .com. Right

0:24

here, right now, this is the

0:26

moment that you will finally say

0:28

I'm growing my accounting practice and

0:30

we're going to discover exactly how,

0:32

right here, right now, I'm the

0:34

grow my accounting practice podcast. All

0:37

right, Ron, I can't do

0:39

with an Australian actress accent, but

0:41

Marcus Cronick has been a

0:43

business coach since 2005, leveraging his

0:45

experience in various industries, helped

0:48

small businesses thrive and achieve financial

0:50

success as a PFP.

0:52

That's a profit for professional

0:54

folks since 2019 and

0:57

a profit first master since

0:59

2021. He specializes in

1:01

increasing business profitability, eliminating

1:03

debt, and building long -term financial

1:05

stability. And I'll tell you, when

1:08

I go down to Proficon every year in

1:10

Australia, he's the guy who's bringing the

1:12

energy to the room. No further ado.

1:14

Marcus, welcome to our show. Oh my.

1:16

Hey, Mike. Thank you. Lovely to be

1:18

here. You get asked

1:20

to... to MC pretty much every

1:22

year, I think, right? Yes.

1:26

Yes. My wife says, don't give him

1:28

a microphone. So I like it. And

1:31

I love standing up the front and getting

1:33

things going. And you do.

1:35

You stand up there and you'll start

1:37

wiggling and shaking, dancing, just saying

1:39

funny stuff. Marcus, the hype man

1:41

of you. He's a hype man. you? Yep.

1:45

Something like that. Well, this

1:47

year I impersonated Robin Williams to

1:49

get it going but that

1:52

shocked a few people's ears. Not

1:54

as Mrs. Doubtfire. No,

1:56

no, no, sorry. Good morning, Vietnam. Maybe

2:00

I'll do that next year, Ron.

2:02

I'll think about the Mrs. Doubtfire one for next

2:05

year. Oh my God,

2:07

that would be so funny. a

2:09

good morning, Prophet Khan, but they're

2:11

little louder. Yeah, yeah, you were

2:13

fired up. And I know you're in a podcast, you're

2:15

holding yourself back. I mean, this guy gets fired

2:17

up. I'm not fired up. We

2:19

want to talk about your knowledge

2:22

around Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The

2:24

topic for today, just for our audience, is

2:27

really understanding the trajectory your

2:29

clients are going through and

2:31

how you're part of their

2:34

expansion. I don't know if that's the right word,

2:36

Marcus, into Maslow's hierarchy. Yes,

2:38

so tell us about first but

2:41

also I think important, but I

2:43

also think it's coming from a employee

2:45

management perspective, right Marcus that we're

2:47

gonna talk about so part of it

2:49

what I refer to was start

2:51

with I and that's a play on

2:53

cynics start with why I'm

2:55

saying well how about we start with

2:57

i which is the team member when

2:59

we're employing people we start with them

3:01

but I think you know working with

3:04

business owners it's the same thing my

3:06

start with i there is what's this

3:08

all about for you and if I'm

3:10

employing somebody or advise people who are

3:12

employing people let's start with your

3:14

team member a lot of

3:16

what happens in the world

3:18

of working in team is

3:21

all about seeking

3:23

engagement from the team. How do I

3:25

get my team to engage in my business?

3:27

How do I get them to take

3:29

ownership? Which is great. And

3:31

I'm saying, well, how are we

3:33

engaging with our team members? How are

3:36

we helping them get where they

3:38

want to go? And we need to

3:40

start, the process there

3:42

is start with I, they are

3:44

the I. So

3:46

let's start with them. What is it? Who

3:49

are you? What are you trying to achieve

3:51

in life? What are you trying to achieve

3:53

professionally, which is part of life? It's not

3:55

something different. So, you

3:57

know, let's start there and let me

3:59

help you as an employee get where you want to

4:02

go, which is the same thing I do with

4:04

clients, which is, you know, let me help you

4:06

get where you want to go. And

4:08

that extends through. you know,

4:10

the Maslow's hierarchy idea. I've

4:12

been a fan of Maslow

4:14

since university, college in the

4:16

States. You know, when

4:18

I first learned about it and

4:21

then went back and read towards a

4:23

theory of human motivation, which is

4:25

very simple. So I don't get too

4:27

complicated about those things. Let's work

4:29

down that path. So

4:31

if I'm understanding you

4:33

correctly, you're saying, you

4:35

know, instead of Them

4:37

telling you what they need

4:39

you're saying go to them and

4:41

ask what are you actually

4:43

doing as the business owner to

4:45

help them? Versus them telling

4:47

you what you need is that

4:49

I getting that? I'm

4:53

not sure yeah instead of the business

4:55

owner saying this is what I need

4:57

from you I mean you've got to

4:59

do that obviously yeah, but I'm also

5:01

saying if you're You're a male coming

5:04

to work with me I

5:06

should know that maybe you're married

5:08

with three kids and maybe you're

5:10

renting a house and you want

5:12

to own a house one day.

5:14

Maybe you're saving up for a

5:16

deposit for a house. And

5:18

I want to ask, how

5:20

can I, as a business

5:22

owner, help you get there? Is

5:24

there something that I can do? And just the

5:26

fact that I'm aware of that, business

5:29

is the vehicle that is

5:31

meant to provide for the

5:33

rest of our... and it

5:35

provides in many ways it

5:37

provides some sort of financial

5:40

return for doing that it

5:42

should provide some joy from

5:44

being in the business you

5:46

know professionally and and personally

5:48

it should provide some joy

5:50

doesn't mean we have marching

5:52

bands each day but we

5:55

should enjoy being there yeah

5:57

so so I want to

5:59

I believe to

6:01

get the most out of my employees, but it's not

6:03

the reason I do it. But to get the most

6:05

out of them, I've got to help them get where

6:07

they want to go. And that can be to the

6:09

extent that they might leave my organization. And

6:12

the last business that I had,

6:14

we were importing commercial touchscreens, and

6:16

it was a buy, build, and sell

6:18

strategy in that business. But

6:20

one of the guys there, and the time

6:23

that I was going to be there, there

6:25

wasn't really a promotional position.

6:27

It was a small company.

6:31

if he wanted to get into

6:33

management. So part of that was,

6:35

well, let us explain to you

6:37

about the financials and sales management,

6:39

turn you into a better salesman,

6:41

train you in that. And that

6:43

might lead you to going for

6:45

other jobs. Now, if

6:47

that's the case, great. I

6:49

mean, it is really that

6:52

part of. Do

6:54

you train them and they leave or do

6:56

you not train them and they stay? Well,

6:58

how about if I train them now? Hopefully

7:00

there you train them well enough and become

7:02

an employer of choice that they do stay

7:04

But if it's if there's a better place

7:06

for them to go You know, maybe that's

7:08

what they need to do do go for

7:11

themselves Go to that that other place and

7:13

you bring someone in we don't live in

7:15

a world where we expect people to stay

7:17

in their job with us for 30 years

7:19

do we so help them roll

7:21

over. Before we know where they need

7:23

to go, do we need

7:25

to know where they are? Is there an

7:27

assessment of where they are on this

7:29

Maslavian journey? Yes.

7:32

Yeah. And the fundamental part of

7:34

the Maslow's journey that I'm saying

7:36

is the self -actualization part, which

7:39

is you need to become the

7:41

person that you're meant to become.

7:43

Maslow said, a musician must play

7:45

music. So if you really,

7:47

really want to be a musician, but you're

7:49

out there digging ditches, maybe that's not going

7:51

to work for you long term. And

7:54

Maslow broke that down into all

7:56

sorts of categories. It wasn't just

7:58

one, one thing, you know,

8:00

the musician could see himself or

8:02

herself as a musician, but also as

8:04

a parent, also as a business

8:06

person, you can see yourself in all

8:08

different sorts of ways. And

8:10

I'm just helping you get what

8:12

it's really doing in the business

8:14

context is saying, I need

8:17

to help this person as a

8:19

person who has a personal life. That's

8:21

where I come from. There's a

8:23

lot done with professional development, career development,

8:25

I think. But we

8:27

need to help them. That's

8:29

getting pretty intimate. Should

8:31

somebody say, hey, I'm looking eventually

8:33

to buy a house? A

8:37

business owner might be uncomfortable

8:39

with saying, okay, great. How

8:41

can I help you do

8:43

that? And literally, walk with

8:45

them, introduce them to a

8:48

realtor, help them with financing

8:50

or getting a mortgage and

8:52

stuff like that. That's

8:57

a lot could that be kept

8:59

seen as intrusive and do people necessarily

9:01

want that level of commitment from their

9:04

boss and that's up to the people

9:06

and that's part of your exploration because

9:08

you've got no right to To

9:10

explore there, you know, it's not a

9:12

done deal that when you join me

9:14

in business you've got to Let open

9:16

everything about yourself and tell me it's

9:18

part of you know, we like

9:20

to help you get where you want

9:22

to go So, you know, if there's

9:24

things you want to share and maybe

9:27

giving examples to people might help them

9:29

out. It can be as simple

9:31

as I had an employee and she

9:33

was driving from our business, driving about

9:35

an hour and a half. So I'm

9:37

two hours north of Sydney in New

9:39

South Wales, Australia. And she was

9:41

driving to Sydney in her old car

9:43

to see an uncle who was in

9:45

hospital. And I said, would you like

9:47

to take my car? To me, that's

9:50

part of the same. thing that

9:52

I'm helping her be a good niece

9:54

and get there just doing something nice

9:56

for an employee. I think you guys

9:58

work on that from everything I've heard

10:00

and you know what I read

10:02

in in all in the book as

10:04

well. So that that's just

10:06

part of it but it can be

10:08

things when employees have shared with with

10:10

clients of mine it's been I'm saving

10:12

up for a car. If

10:14

they want to share that again, they don't have

10:17

to and see well, okay How can we help

10:19

you do that and they might come up with

10:21

suggestions that we can take some money from your

10:23

pay each week and put it into a

10:25

bank account for you. Would you like us

10:28

to do that or pay off a credit

10:30

card? That can be some financial things. They

10:32

help with flexibility in the workplace. I don't

10:34

know how strong it is in the US,

10:36

but in Australia, flexibility in the workplace has

10:38

certainly been a big thing. So understanding that

10:40

you have children that are going to daycare

10:42

and it would be helpful that you get

10:44

out, you know, that you leave work in

10:46

time to pick them up at 4 30

10:48

in the afternoon. That's part of it. So

10:50

it can be as simple as. that, you

10:52

know, it doesn't have to be a big

10:54

thing. But at least I'm helping them with

10:56

their lives. That's what I'm saying.

10:58

Playing devil's advocate. Okay. No

11:00

good deed goes unpunished. So

11:02

say for an example, you

11:05

know, I'm here of an employee

11:07

whose car broke down or something like

11:09

that. And, you know, I'm like,

11:11

Yeah, all right, great. I bought her

11:13

a tire. Right. I bought her

11:15

a tire. Okay. Now that's that set

11:17

is precedent. Now. Now

11:20

I got to buy tires. For

11:22

the do I have to do

11:25

I have to buy tires for the

11:27

next employee that popped a tire

11:29

on the way to work it in

11:31

a Jersey pothole and then next

11:33

minute I know I'm R &S tire

11:35

Right. Yeah, so I think got to

11:37

be careful of those things Ron

11:39

I'm not saying that you've got to

11:41

buy everything in the world for

11:43

for people. Let's just help them along

11:45

the along the way You've got

11:47

to be careful of precedence. Yeah giving

11:49

them a fish teacher man to

11:52

fish Perhaps lose their tire

11:54

tell me with markets. This is what

11:56

I'm hearing from you as Say hey,

11:58

you're in a financial situation where this

12:00

random stuff is gonna happen Let's give

12:02

you tools to manage this going forward

12:04

is I that's why was hearing it's

12:06

more of an education and guidance as

12:08

opposed to doing for It could be

12:10

yeah, okay. Absolutely. Yeah, but I also

12:12

think it's what Marcus is why that's

12:14

You know, like it's kind of like

12:16

the little things we do, we have

12:18

done, right? When Amy's coffee maker broke,

12:21

she was, you know, in the morning,

12:23

she was, you know, talking about how

12:25

my coffee maker broke, blah, blah, blah.

12:27

We went out and had a call.

12:29

We bought her a coffee maker. Yeah,

12:31

exactly. Exactly. By the time she got

12:33

home, had a coffee maker. That's

12:35

the kind of stuff you're talking about at a little

12:37

scale. Yeah, I hear you say. Yeah. What do you

12:39

think? Yeah, it could

12:41

be our business with Vans and

12:43

and sometimes the guys would want to

12:46

use the vans on the weekend. Now

12:48

how we stopped the precedent of

12:50

you can just use the vans was

12:52

they understood that they needed to

12:54

ask me about using the vans. So

12:57

if you want to use the van

12:59

that might be all right but you

13:01

check in with me first. So that's

13:03

not a done deal and an expectation.

13:05

I think what you've got to stop

13:07

there is entitlement a world view. We've

13:09

become used to over the last few

13:11

years where that can crop up and

13:13

they feel that way. That's not what

13:15

it's about. It's really being a good

13:17

person. It comes down to your basic

13:19

values. And I'm just saying

13:21

as an employer, I like to be a bit

13:23

more aware of where people are up to

13:25

so that I can help them on that journey.

13:27

You need to pick your kid up from

13:29

school. Great. If I understand

13:32

that, maybe we can work

13:34

that into your job. If

13:36

you want to get better professionally and I

13:38

think there's a coaching element comes into that

13:40

again I'll refer back to the you know

13:42

your book all in Mike that there's a

13:44

coaching element comes into that with the the

13:46

regular catch -ups You know it gets built

13:48

into that so when I do those one -to

13:50

-ones I like to have a personal element

13:52

built in What are your goals for the

13:54

year and that could be knowing that they're

13:56

planning on hola if they don't want to

13:58

share again You got to let them know

14:00

this is something You know, that you don't

14:02

have to share, but if you'd like to

14:04

let us know about that, I'd love to

14:07

know what your plans are for the year. Maybe

14:09

they're going to find this because I want to

14:11

roll through some more questions before we run out of

14:13

time. I was just

14:15

kind of reciprocate. We do these

14:18

appropriate, wonderful things. How

14:20

have you seen that play out reciprocally

14:22

to people appreciate a company more than

14:24

they work hard? I got it. Marcus

14:26

has gotten better holiday gifts. Exactly.

14:32

Yeah, I wish. Yeah,

14:34

so my first

14:37

part there is I

14:39

don't expect any

14:41

reciprocity with it. And

14:43

that can be that maybe good

14:45

things come to me down the track

14:48

because I'm doing good things. However,

14:50

in saying that, people

14:54

Well, if like you better think

14:57

I think they do engage with

14:59

you more they're more because they

15:01

understand That you're not there saying

15:03

I'm doing this so that I

15:05

can get my next bigger boat

15:07

You know it is I'm doing

15:09

this for you and so the

15:12

reciprocity is they do things for

15:14

you back for you and it's

15:16

not done with a Let me

15:18

tick the box. Let me balance

15:20

out the equation here. It's done

15:22

because they actually care for you

15:24

more and they care for your

15:27

business more. They really get in,

15:29

you know, becomes more of that

15:31

family type situation, maybe with less

15:33

arguments. Have you woven

15:35

this into like your immutable laws or

15:37

your like, is this, is this like. You

15:39

know, I love to give. I love

15:41

just sharing and helping and everything. And it's

15:43

part of our DNA here at Profit

15:45

First, where we share a lot. I mean,

15:47

this sounds like something you could really

15:49

build a culture upon. Oh,

15:52

absolutely. Well, I think I think

15:54

that then spreads out between people

15:56

who work for you as well.

15:58

But because it is based on

16:00

values, really, that these

16:03

are your personal values, which to

16:05

me, business values. are based

16:07

on personal values that spread out

16:09

into your business, into your team, into

16:11

your clients, into your community. So

16:13

some of the best people I've worked

16:15

with make that very evident in

16:17

their business and it's quite natural. It's

16:19

not a forced thing that they

16:21

do. Yeah, look, I've just had that

16:23

return so many times over the

16:25

lady who took my car down to

16:27

see her uncle. She'd

16:29

stay and work late

16:31

and for people to understand

16:33

that in Australia, your

16:36

start time and finish time

16:38

are far more set than

16:40

the, what I understand from

16:42

American movies and TV shows

16:44

of people working crazy hours.

16:47

You know, we don't do that. We do

16:49

some sort of, but not like that. So,

16:51

but she would stay and work late or,

16:53

you know, if it was, if she needed

16:55

to work through lunch to get something done,

16:57

she just do it. And that wasn't me

16:59

asking her to do it. That was just

17:01

how she gave back to the, to the business

17:04

the guys in the vans

17:07

and I had them just looking

17:09

after that business eventually so

17:11

that they didn't have to have

17:13

much conversation with me and

17:15

I trusted them and that came

17:17

a bit through systems but

17:20

it also simply came from the

17:22

way they took ownership of

17:24

the business that they did engage

17:26

back in the business and

17:28

understood what was going on. for

17:31

me. And I think that's

17:33

what we're talking about, right? We're

17:35

talking about creating a culture

17:37

where, you know, it's not reciprocity

17:39

that is overt. It's, hey,

17:41

we're all in this together. Absolutely.

17:45

Yeah. So it's

17:47

quite simple. But for me, I

17:49

come back to Maslow because that

17:51

was an earlier learning for me and

17:53

it's just something I fell in

17:55

love with and I relate a lot

17:57

of things. you know, back to

17:59

Maslow and as it goes through. And

18:01

again, as I was listening to

18:03

all in, I think, well, this is

18:05

you're taking people through Maslow's hierarchy

18:07

as employees. And, you know, there's

18:10

some other great books on that. I can't think

18:12

of any other great books. I think you nailed

18:14

the only one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

18:16

Well, it's definitely the best book I've

18:18

ever read on the team. Don't

18:20

know why people would buy anything

18:22

else. I don't know why other books

18:25

exist on the shelves. Yeah, I

18:27

don't even know why other authors should

18:29

just retire, you know. Yeah. Well,

18:31

I'll give you a plug there. It is on the

18:34

clock. Yeah. What was that? Well,

18:36

I'll give you a plug there

18:38

because I think people can buy series

18:40

of books from people like you

18:42

and just go, well, if I just

18:44

concentrated on doing them properly, I

18:46

don't actually need terribly much else, you

18:48

know. Yeah. If you put

18:50

the plan in place, if you put profit

18:52

first in place, if you, well,

18:55

even for the kids, sorry, I forget

18:57

the name of the kids, one might.

18:59

Money Money bunnies, but who's counting? Money

19:01

bunnies. But if you put all those

19:03

in place, there's actually enough information there,

19:06

think different, all of those to run your

19:08

business on. Thank you. Playbook.

19:11

Playbooks. Playbooks.

19:13

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's funny

19:15

with profit first. The

19:18

countless people who struggle, it's because

19:20

they feel that they need to

19:22

know more before they start, and

19:24

the reality is you have to

19:26

start to know more. Marcus,

19:28

before we let you go, where

19:32

can our listeners perhaps dig into this topic

19:34

deeper with you, learn from you,

19:36

or use your services made to give them

19:38

guidance on the implementation of Maslow's hierarchy? The

19:41

easiest thing is to just go

19:43

to my website, which is my name,

19:45

MarcusCrowick. That's

19:50

amazing Good not too many people in

19:52

the world with that name. Although there is

19:54

another one. I believe I think there

19:56

is We will put this in the show

19:58

notes Marcus. Thank you for the insights.

20:00

I appreciate Ryan. We both appreciate you tremendously

20:02

Yeah, thank you Marcus. Great job. Thank

20:04

you. Lovely to be here with you Yeah,

20:06

tell Katie and the rest of the

20:08

folks we said hello. I

20:10

shall. Yeah, thanks for doing for the

20:12

PFP community Alright, Ron and I are gonna

20:15

recap what we learned from Marcus And

20:17

I got a GMAP Natasch, Ron's

20:19

got some insider access. Well,

20:23

thought to you first, what was

20:25

your fave from Marcus? It boils

20:27

down to being a human being,

20:29

like a good human being, you

20:31

know, almost... where the new superpower

20:33

is empathy, being empathetic to,

20:35

you know, your employees needs, wants,

20:37

wishes, you know, because we are all

20:39

in this together and we are

20:42

building something for a common goal. So,

20:44

you know, having a great understanding

20:46

of, you know, what people's aspirations are,

20:48

what makes them tick, what they're

20:50

looking forward to, you know, what their

20:52

desired future is, you know, is

20:54

definitely something that we have woven into

20:56

the framework here. And it's great

20:58

to create a culture. Marcus said a

21:00

line that I love and maybe

21:02

I'm going to paraphrase this incorrectly, but

21:04

he said, I need to help

21:06

this person be a person in their

21:08

personal lives. What a great statement

21:10

to make as a leader for the

21:12

organization. I also liked that he

21:14

said, business is a vehicle to provide,

21:16

sure, it's an income, but he said to

21:18

provide joy, maybe a platform for expression.

21:20

And he just said there's so much more

21:23

that their job and this business provides.

21:25

And I think that awareness Allows

21:27

us to be of great service to

21:29

them. You know, it's it's it's

21:31

a higher level thinking if you will

21:33

You know, but it's it

21:35

seems so simple yet in the

21:37

course of running businesses We don't

21:39

take that extra level and go

21:41

deeper. Yeah, right. Tunnel vision kicks

21:44

in. Yeah, Ron you got that

21:46

crazy weapon of yours the Obi

21:48

-Wan lightsaber Marcus is still watching

21:50

live and he's a little nervous

21:52

because that's coming all the way

21:54

to Australia down under Run.

21:56

This is something you're doing here at our

21:58

organization. Folks can do that. What do you

22:00

got for us today? Yeah, we, you know,

22:02

we're pulling a page out of Marcus's playbook

22:04

here. You know, one of the

22:07

things that we just did, literally just did,

22:09

we had our quarterly wrap up and we

22:11

went around the office and we discussed, hey,

22:13

we're interested in knowing what are some of

22:15

your goals? What are some of your life

22:17

goals? What are some of your personal goals?

22:19

And of course, if you feel like sharing

22:21

great. So what we did, everybody who felt

22:23

comfortable said three of the goals, personal, financial,

22:25

business wise. And I got a list of

22:27

it and we're talking about them. We're talking

22:29

about them during our morning huddle. which is

22:31

a great way to also, you know, get

22:33

a check -in because that's what Marcus is

22:35

also doing about a check -in, you know, personal

22:37

updates. Anybody want to share a personal update

22:39

is a great way to do something on

22:41

a huddle. That way you do take the

22:43

temperature of the team. Nice.

22:45

That's so nice, Ron. I love

22:47

that one implementation what Marcus is

22:50

sharing. I also got one more thing

22:52

for you. It's a GMAP Now task. So one task, if

22:54

you do it, you will see results. The

22:56

late... Will Ait and Great John

22:58

Ruhlin shared that. It's the thoughtful thought

23:00

that matters. I don't know

23:02

if you know this. He's got his

23:04

final contribution to our society and it's

23:06

beyond giftology. That's the name of his

23:08

brand new book he was finishing right

23:11

before he passed away. His team

23:13

saw it through to the finish line.

23:15

It's available today. Make sure you get

23:17

your copy beyond giftology by John Ruhlin.

23:21

a former colleague and friend of the greatest

23:23

depths. And I'm just so I miss

23:25

him so much. Oh, wow. So all right,

23:27

Ron, take us home. All right, guys.

23:29

Thank you, Marcus. Thank you, listeners. Don't forget

23:31

to review and subscribe to grow my

23:33

accounting practice podcast. That way you never miss

23:36

an episode. You can also find us

23:38

on YouTube, but also. We want

23:40

to talk to you. You probably considered

23:42

or thought about being a profit first professional

23:44

like Marcus did back in the day.

23:46

Why don't you go to profitfirstprofessionals .com, hit

23:48

to apply, fill out the form and let's

23:50

have a conversation. Let's see if

23:52

this is a fit for you. Maybe you're

23:54

interested in CFO services. Maybe you're interested in standing

23:56

out from the competition, or maybe you're just

23:58

interested in making more money and growing a better

24:00

company. Give us a call and let's see

24:02

what we can do. Let's

24:04

see you guys later. All right, guys. Take care,

24:07

everyone. Thanks.