2:00

Get now for some warmth. Yeah. I

2:02

don't know what's happened to me.

2:04

I turned into a wuss. I

2:06

mean, I used to love the

2:08

cold, like really love it. I

2:10

don't like it. Yeah. It's it's

2:12

it's getting to me too. And

2:14

it's it's early in the season.

2:17

I think my house. You need

2:19

a better coat and a hat

2:21

and gloves then, gentlemen. Well, what

2:23

I think it was was this

2:25

early snow before Christmas. At first,

2:27

that was exciting. And I'm like,

2:29

it's been snowing for so long

2:31

now, but it's cold, cold. Yeah,

2:33

and it's cold cold. His name

2:36

is Ron Baker. He is the

2:38

founder of the Verisage Institute, is

2:40

a renowned author, speaker and advocate

2:42

for value pricing in the professional

2:44

service industry. I don't know if

2:46

you know this, Ron Saharian. He's

2:48

got eight best selling books, global

2:50

influencer, is dedicated or has educated

2:52

over 400,000 professionals and earned recognition

2:55

as one of accounting today's top

2:57

100 most influential people. Today, we're

2:59

talking about the transformation economy. This

3:01

is a new economy. It's upon

3:03

us. We better be ready for

3:05

it. No further ado, Ron Baker.

3:07

Welcome to our show. Thanks, Mike.

3:09

And George. And thanks, Ron. Thanks,

3:11

Liz, for having me. Glad to

3:13

be back after what, 10, 10

3:16

years or so. Feels like a

3:18

long time. And we all look

3:20

younger. That's like what they say

3:22

at the high school reunions at

3:24

least. Right. Exactly the same. Tell

3:26

us what exactly is the transformation

3:28

economy? This is really exciting, you

3:30

guys. Economic errors are defined by

3:32

their outputs. So we've been through

3:35

the agricultural revolution when we produced

3:37

commodities, wheat and other agricultural products.

3:39

Then we moved into mass customized

3:41

products, which are tangible and those

3:43

are goods. So we moved into

3:45

the industrial revolution mass produced goods.

3:47

And then of course in the

3:49

1920s we started to see more

3:51

services come online, insurance and restaurants

3:54

and all different types of services.

3:56

And services are of course intangible

3:58

and they're delivered on time. These

8:00

are all transformations that we can

8:02

do not only for business people,

8:04

but for the personal lives as

8:07

well. And accountants are well poised

8:09

for this. Pretty hard to get

8:11

Porsche to transform me. Sure, I

8:13

can buy a Porsche and I

8:16

can overcome my midlife crisis and

8:18

I can make my neighbors jealous.

8:20

But is that really a transformation?

8:22

Maybe, but CPAs and accountants are.

8:25

poised to do transformations just like

8:27

doctors. They can keep us healthy.

8:29

We can keep them wealthier and

8:32

wiser. You share the vampire. You

8:34

don't know what it's like until

8:36

you do it. How do you

8:38

sell transformation when your prospect hasn't

8:41

done it yet? Yeah, you have

8:43

to have a discovery conversation with

8:45

them about what it is they

8:47

want for their future. This is

8:50

all about human flourishing, whether we're

8:52

talking about health, wealth, wiser, or

8:54

purpose and meaning. It's all part

8:56

of human flourishing, and that's what

8:59

businesses contribute to. That's really, at

9:01

the end of the day, what

9:03

businesses create is human flourishing. We've

9:05

lifted millions of people out of

9:08

bone-crushing poverty, and we can continue

9:10

to do that. The great thing

9:12

is you discover these. Everybody's got.

9:14

I'll give you just an interesting

9:17

example of this. My landscaper is

9:19

giving me best curbside appeal over

9:21

time. He's coming in and he's

9:24

upgrading slowly my yard. He knows

9:26

I want to sell the house

9:28

in a couple years. And when

9:30

I'm ready to sell, he has

9:33

promised me that he will have

9:35

best curbside appeal when I list

9:37

the home. Now that's a transformation.

9:39

He's not talking to me about

9:42

the scope of work. He's not

9:44

talking about I'm going to do

9:46

the trimming and the hedging and

9:48

the right now that features the

9:51

detail, right? He's he's going for

9:53

an outcome. He's going for a

9:55

result or what I would call

9:57

now a transformation, which is taking

10:00

me from, you know, getting H

10:02

O. warning notices about my yard

10:04

not being up to snuff to

10:06

best curbside appeal. That's a transformation.

10:09

He's pricing it that three times

10:11

more than my prior landscaper.

10:14

And guess what? I'm a

10:16

happier customer. Three times more.

10:18

So we, yeah, so we, um, we are

10:20

helping our members and,

10:23

you know, accountants and

10:25

bookkeepers to be more. to

10:27

be better as advisors. What's in

10:29

this transformation economy? What is

10:31

the question? How do we

10:33

ask innovative questions around this

10:36

model? You have to ask them

10:38

what their desired future is.

10:40

I'll give you a real

10:42

tangible example of this. The

10:44

CEO offender was asked, what

10:46

was difficult about selling guitars?

10:48

And he said, what's difficult

10:50

about selling guitars is people

10:52

are all excited when they buy a

10:54

guitar. 95% of them. We'll have lined

10:56

up a teacher and lessons and all

10:59

of that. And he says within

11:01

six months, the guitar will go

11:03

under the bed or in the

11:05

closet. They give up 95% of

11:07

them give up. And he said,

11:09

what's worse, he said, is they'll

11:11

re give that guitar to their

11:13

cousin on and I'll lose another

11:15

sale. So in 2017, the CEO

11:17

of Fender launches Fender Play, a

11:19

digital library of I think it was

11:21

3,000 videos at the time. It's probably

11:23

grown much more than that. To help

11:26

you plague the guitar to any

11:28

level that you aspire, beginning, intermediate,

11:30

advanced, probably beyond. When COVID struck

11:32

in 19, and we were all

11:34

locked down learning new languages and

11:36

baking bread, he said, we're going

11:38

to make Fender Play available for

11:40

a trial. I think it was

11:42

three months. He got a million

11:45

signups within a week, crashed their

11:47

system. So they went through

11:49

COVID. As of 2024,

11:51

the latest numbers I

11:53

can find, Fender Play

11:55

has 930,000 subscribers. By

11:57

2000, they had 200,000

11:59

subscribers. Now they have 930 paying

12:01

149 bucks a year with a 5%

12:03

churn rate. And Fender sold more guitars

12:06

in 2021, 22, 23 and 24

12:08

than they ever had in their

12:10

corporate history. Well, Ron was sharing

12:13

that. So I pulled up the app. So

12:15

I play guitar. I'm one of the guys

12:17

who's the 5% or I've been

12:19

sticking with it. Fender. Fender tune

12:21

is the intro to Fender play and

12:23

I have both. to your point. Somebody just

12:26

recommended it to my wife. My wife

12:28

is one of the ones that picked

12:30

back up her guitar that was in

12:32

the closet for 10 years. Yeah. Okay.

12:34

Yeah. And so she's somebody just said,

12:36

you got to do fender player, fender

12:38

tune or something like that. So go

12:40

ahead, Mike. Well, I'm just wondering, is

12:42

that the transformation? Is it

12:44

the realization that those customers were

12:47

in a transactional state? I want

12:49

I have I don't consume is

12:51

transformation becomes part of you. There's

12:53

an amalgamation. Right it What

12:56

it is is it's the revenue model

12:58

question. What are we asking

13:00

our customers to pay us

13:02

for? And Fender CEO said it's not

13:04

guitars. It's musicianship

13:06

At the level that you aspire to

13:08

play right and if that just

13:11

means you want to be a

13:13

beginner that can sit around at

13:15

a Christmas party and impress your

13:18

family and friends That's fine. That's

13:20

still a transformation. Yep Right? Taking

13:22

somebody like me who only plays,

13:25

you know, Spotify to somebody who

13:27

can play an instrument. That's what

13:29

we're talking about. And there's there's

13:32

many other examples of this. Amazing.

13:34

Is the is the conversation

13:36

just I want to finish out

13:38

this example, you were talking about

13:40

the conversation about the outcome. Is

13:42

the conversation now it used to be do

13:45

you want to own a guitar? Now is

13:47

the conversation. Do you want to be

13:49

a musician? Yep. Or at what level do

13:51

you aspire? Gotcha. Yeah, so how does

13:53

that translate for the accountant? Are

13:55

they asking questions about you know,

13:57

what do you want your business

13:59

to be? What's keeping you up at night?

14:01

What's keeping you up at night? What

14:03

gets you up in the morning? Because

14:06

that would be purpose and meaningful work.

14:08

And the whole, you know, are you

14:10

working in your business or on your

14:12

business? It's those conversations. It's also about

14:15

where do you want to be in

14:17

five years? Do you want to retire

14:19

at 50? Whatever it might be, do

14:21

you want to try and get your

14:23

kid into Penn? Do you want to

14:26

build a second dream home? or a

14:28

dream first home, whatever it might be.

14:30

Everybody's got aspirations to do something.

14:32

And accountants can help with

14:35

many of those, not all of them,

14:37

but a lot of them. And we can do

14:39

it serially. We can do it over

14:41

and over from womb to tomb. From

14:44

when the kid's born, we can plan

14:46

the college. And when you die, we

14:48

can plan your legacy from

14:50

womb to tomb. Literally, we

14:52

can guide transformations, whatever it

14:55

may be. And I just think that

14:57

that's the most powerful thing. This

14:59

is why we became accounting professionals

15:01

to help people. I didn't become an

15:04

accounting professional, bill the most hours, do

15:06

the most tax returns, work the latest.

15:08

I wanted to impact people through

15:11

my skills. And as Michael

15:13

Hammer defines a professional as

15:15

someone who's responsible for creating

15:17

a result rather than performing a

15:19

task, we've turned everything into a

15:21

task in this profession. whether

15:23

we've chopped everything up into

15:26

six-minute increments. Do this, do that,

15:28

do this test. Oh, gee, you

15:30

opened up more accounts, you have

15:32

more employees, your payroll's bigger, we

15:34

have to go to the department

15:36

of paperwork and get a change

15:38

order, change your price. Forget all

15:40

that. The services are just a

15:42

means to an end to achieve these

15:44

transformations. And when you

15:46

guide transformations, the customer's

15:48

the product, but they're also

15:50

the hero of their journey. We're

15:53

just their guide, but the

15:55

customer is the hero, so the

15:57

focus is on the customer.

16:00

How would the accounting firm, the

16:02

owner is still wrenching on the

16:04

engine, doing the hiring, as well

16:06

as the strategy, they haven't transformed?

16:09

necessarily. How do those that have

16:11

been doing the same thing over

16:13

and over and over, you know,

16:16

make this transformation so that they

16:18

can then transform the customers? Because

16:20

I'm a believer that they've got

16:22

to first put the oxygen mask

16:25

over themselves, right? Or can they

16:27

get away with transforming a customer

16:29

by doing the same thing over

16:32

and over themselves within their own

16:34

business? Yeah, this is a great

16:36

question. It's the perennial problem, right?

16:38

Just like you guys have, I'm

16:41

sure, moving people from gap accounting

16:43

to profit-first accounting, that's a transformation.

16:45

How did you do that? Well,

16:48

you set up a worldwide community

16:50

to help people do that and

16:52

gave them consulting. I think there's

16:54

going to be offerings out there

16:57

like that coming down the pike

16:59

all the time. But what I'm

17:01

excited about is this is what

17:04

gets us back to our root.

17:06

People want to do this. I

17:08

think this profession has become way

17:10

too transactional. We're way too focused

17:13

on the math of the moment

17:15

rather than customer lifetime relationships. So

17:17

I think a good first interim

17:20

step for firms is to move

17:22

to the subscription business model, which

17:24

puts the relationship at the center

17:26

and de-emphasizes the services and the

17:29

scope of work that take such

17:31

precedence in the value pricing world

17:33

or an hourly billing world. because

17:36

in a subscription business, you're looking

17:38

at profit over the entire portfolio

17:40

and you're building lifetime customer value.

17:42

It's not about profit per se,

17:45

it's about customer lifetime value, which

17:47

by the way is a lot

17:49

more valuable too when you go

17:52

to sell. So you're going to

17:54

get bigger multiples when you sell

17:56

with a track record of recurring

17:58

revenue and churn. It's

20:00

going to be expensive, but it's

20:02

going to be worth it. And

20:04

I think there's a lost opportunity

20:06

to share some of these experiential

20:08

changes or transformations during that initial

20:10

phone call versus how many transactions

20:12

do you have? How many bank

20:14

accounts do you have? What is

20:17

the software you're using? Where did

20:19

your account fall short in the

20:21

past before? Right. I think value

20:23

starts at your brand. So if

20:25

I'm looking for a profit-first accountant,

20:27

I already have some type of

20:29

idea of what I'm seeking. I'm

20:31

seeking somebody that can guide me

20:33

through this transformation of moving to

20:35

profit-first. And when I see that

20:37

as a branded accountant, that's where

20:39

value starts even. It starts in

20:42

the marketing even before the sale.

20:44

God bless you. I know, yeah,

20:46

absolutely. I mean, well, you know,

20:48

if I were to take, you

20:50

know, and you see this too,

20:52

if you take a bunch of

20:54

accounting firms websites, you shake them

20:56

all up, you throw them out

20:58

there, they pretty much all look

21:00

the same. So what kind of

21:02

branding recognition or do they have,

21:04

you know, with regards to their

21:06

competition from the other one on

21:09

Main Street? Not much. So, you

21:11

know, how can how can an

21:13

accountant demonstrate that they're transformational compared

21:15

to the rest of the rank

21:17

and file out there. This is

21:19

the most exciting thing about using

21:21

this vocabulary and the framework of

21:23

transformations. If you go to the

21:25

market with a common offering, you're

21:27

going to command a common price.

21:29

Common prices don't excite me as

21:31

a pricer. I want to go

21:34

to the market with an uncommon

21:36

offering to command an uncommon price

21:38

like Apple. or Portia or whatever.

21:40

And this gives you that ability.

21:42

This gives you a framework and

21:44

the vocabulary. The language is a

21:46

big part of this transformation as

21:48

well. All change is linguistic. You

21:50

know, if we want to change

21:52

the culture, we have to change

21:54

our conversation and our vocabulary. And

21:56

I just think this gives for

21:59

the reason. I'm into this guys

22:01

is because I think this gives

22:03

firms two three four five times

22:05

the pricing power they have now Because

22:07

the here's the north star and

22:09

you've probably I'm sure you've heard

22:11

of this concierge doctors Concierge

22:14

doctors charge anywhere from 10 grand

22:16

to 36 grand a year for

22:18

a couple and Maybe another four

22:20

or five grand per kid these

22:22

doctors that are general physicians say

22:24

to you they're covenant with you

22:27

is whatever you need medically

22:29

that we do and a GP doesn't

22:31

do everything, right? Whatever you need

22:33

medically that we do, you're covered.

22:35

They have no waiting rooms in their

22:37

offices. They run at some of these

22:39

doctors only have 50 patients or 50

22:41

couples to 100. So they always have

22:44

capacity for emergencies. They'll come to your

22:46

home, your office, wherever you are, some

22:48

of them even fly overseas. If you're

22:50

on a trip, I mean, we're talking

22:52

about companies or practices that deal with

22:54

the top 5% of the wealth. But

22:56

now they have a little baby cousins

22:58

known as direct primary care physicians. There's

23:00

over 2,500 of these nationwide. They're in

23:02

every state. They charge anywhere from 100

23:04

to 300. or bucks a month, they

23:06

don't take insurance, and they only

23:09

have 600 patients, whereas the

23:11

average GP in the US has

23:13

2,400 patients. So they're running at

23:15

25% capacity. These doctors are flourishing.

23:17

Every one of these independent practices

23:20

has a waiting list. Somebody has

23:22

to die or move before you

23:24

get in. And these doctors are

23:26

flourishing. And it's because I think

23:29

a professional firm is defined by

23:31

the services and the customers it doesn't

23:33

have. a GP, we all know what a

23:35

GP does, but more importantly, we know what

23:37

they don't do. If I go into my GP

23:40

and ask him to do heart surgery, he's

23:42

not going to do it. But he'll

23:44

quarter back the relationship with that specialist.

23:46

And I think accountants can do the

23:48

exact same thing as this model. And

23:50

by the way, the first concierge doctor

23:52

was in 1996. Wow. Ron, when you

23:54

were talking about books, you talked

23:57

about the experience economy, it just

23:59

triggered memory and I'm curious

24:02

about your thoughts. Steven

24:04

Pressfield's book, The War of Art, and

24:06

in there he talks about the

24:08

resistance, how writers don't face

24:10

writer's block. They face this

24:12

compulsion of not going beyond

24:14

where they are today. There's

24:17

this call to homeostasis. I

24:19

assume for anyone that we as

24:21

a service provider are assisting

24:23

in a transformation, there may

24:25

be an initial excitement, jubilation,

24:28

they're going to do it. And

24:30

then the resistance kicks in. This call

24:32

to the average, the standard. If that's

24:34

true, how do we help our clients

24:36

navigate that? Because otherwise, I think

24:39

they're a loss, cause we'll lose

24:41

them as clients. Yeah, it's

24:43

a great question. Again, it's very

24:45

similar to how did we move

24:47

firms away from hourly billing to

24:49

what you guys are advocating with

24:51

value pricing and packaging and all

24:53

of that. It was a very,

24:55

very slow process. I mean, I've

24:57

been touting this since 1990 and

24:59

it's taken a long time, but

25:01

now I can finally say that

25:03

we're in the early majority of

25:06

firms that value price or at

25:08

least fixed price and they're no

25:10

longer predominantly pricing by the hour. And

25:12

I think what's going to propel this

25:14

change even faster is because economic

25:16

eras don't care about your feelings

25:18

and your trepidations. If the economy

25:20

is moving this way, the train

25:22

has left the station. You're either

25:24

on it or under it. Take

25:27

your pick because this is going

25:29

to bowl over you because if

25:31

your competition is out there talking

25:33

about transformations and you're talking about

25:35

scope of work and effort and

25:37

change orders and all that, you're

25:39

going to be left behind. But

25:42

what about the customer? So

25:45

with profit first, we have an

25:47

accountant who's trying to guide

25:49

a client who wants to be

25:51

more profitable. They say this

25:53

is the path, this profit

25:56

first, the client is resistant to

25:58

it or at least. accepts in

26:00

the beginning and then says, I give

26:03

in cause it's uncomfortable. I'm

26:05

just wondering, is there

26:07

techniques get passed that uncomfortable

26:09

stage? No, I think, I think

26:11

uncomfortableness is, is important for change.

26:14

People have to struggle with something

26:16

before they, before they can change.

26:18

It's, it's, it's that liminal space.

26:21

Yeah. You know, that portal, that

26:23

border between the. between the new

26:25

and the old, you're not in

26:28

either spot in that liminal space.

26:30

This is why the groom carried

26:32

the bride over the threshold, right?

26:35

They were leaving one world being

26:37

single and entering into another, but

26:39

in that liminal space over

26:42

the threshold, they're not in

26:44

either space yet. And people have

26:46

to go through that to change.

26:48

But human flourishing is all about

26:51

change. Humans do change. I

26:53

mean, certain behaviors probably don't, but

26:55

humans are capable of changing. And

26:57

everybody has higher aspirations. It's our

27:00

job as professionals to find what

27:02

those are, just like it's these

27:05

doctor's jobs to keep us healthy

27:07

rather than just cure us when

27:09

we present with a problem. And

27:11

by the way, how do you handle that?

27:13

You want the transformation more than they do,

27:15

right? Don't they have to, right? Don't they

27:17

have to want to go? They have to

27:20

want it. Yeah, they have to want to

27:22

go through the hard work to get the

27:24

results. Absolutely. Well, this is where

27:26

it goes back to marketing. I mean,

27:28

you mentioned the hero's journey before. I

27:30

mean, part of our job as looking

27:32

for the people who want the transformation

27:34

is sharing, here's where you are. And

27:36

here's the pain that you're in. I

27:38

know this. Here are the big problems.

27:40

Here's your internal fear. Here's your external

27:42

challenge. Here's what you're saying to yourself.

27:44

And the more they can see themselves,

27:46

then those are the people who are

27:48

like, I'm sick of this, right? So

27:50

it's helping the people to be like,

27:52

Oh, they get me. I love that line

27:55

of, um, uh, defined what we're defined by

27:57

the, the, the people that we serve

27:59

the service. The things we serve and

28:01

the clients we, the people we do

28:03

not serve, right? So being able to

28:05

be very clear of if, if you

28:07

don't see yourself on here, we're not

28:09

for you, but if you see yourself

28:12

on here, here we are. Right. You're

28:14

right, Ron. And Liz, the customer has

28:16

to want to change. Think about going

28:18

to a personal trainer. If, if after

28:20

six months of going there, you're still,

28:22

you know, a pant load, they're probably

28:24

going to fire you because you're the

28:26

worst walking billboard for their, for their

28:28

offer. right? So you've got to want

28:30

to change. Joe Pine tells the story

28:33

and I love it because it's so

28:35

simple. He's a good golfer. He was

28:37

like a 15 handicap and he went

28:39

to a golf pro and he said,

28:41

I want to be a single digit

28:43

handicapper. Now the golf pro can look

28:45

at your swing and see if, hey,

28:47

this guy's physically capable. Does he have

28:49

the swing mechanics and all that of

28:51

being a scratcher, a single digit golfer.

28:54

and the guy said okay my lessons

28:56

are 150 bucks per half hour and

28:58

Joe Pines like no no no i

29:00

don't care about your lessons i'll give

29:02

you 10 grand if you can bring

29:04

me to a single digit handicap and

29:06

if you can do it within a

29:08

week even better so i might even

29:10

give you a bonus right no i'm

29:12

not arguing for the way to price

29:15

this i'm arguing for What does that

29:17

do to the relationship between the golf

29:19

pro and and Joe? Well, it changes

29:21

it. I mean, I'm sure the golf

29:23

pro was pounding on his door at

29:25

7 a.m. Come on, let's go. We're

29:27

going to go play 18. He probably

29:29

went out there and he did actually.

29:31

Joe found a pro that did this

29:33

and ended up paying them the 10

29:36

grand. But it's a different working relationship

29:38

with helping people achieve their dreams. It's

29:40

more intimate. Much more. It's more relational

29:42

rather than transactional. I know we're going

29:44

to start wrapping things up here, but.

29:46

Should we, in helping people through this

29:48

transformation, prognosticate and tell them, here's what's

29:50

coming. Here's how you are going to

29:52

be resistant and preparing them, inoculating them

29:54

for the potential resistance. Yes. I think

29:57

that's a great idea. I can offer

29:59

one thing there that I've been going

30:01

through. Joe Pine is working on his

30:03

next book called The Transformation Economy. It

30:05

will be due out from Harvard Business

30:07

Press later this year, I think in

30:09

the fall sometime. He's got a

30:11

sub-stack and he is, as he writes

30:13

the chapters, he's throwing them out to

30:15

his readers. And this has been

30:18

going on for about a year

30:20

now. I've been reading these things

30:22

and my mind is blown. I

30:24

can't even think about going back

30:27

to the service transactional value priced

30:29

or hourly billing economy because I

30:31

know for a fact that these

30:33

transformations are coming. We just interviewed

30:35

another author who wrote the book,

30:37

Trends in the Transformation Economy. And

30:40

this book has got hundreds of

30:42

examples of companies already doing this

30:44

in the tourism industry, in the

30:46

medical industry, in automobile industry. Examples

30:48

from Nike and Mayo Clinic. I

30:51

mean, you go down the line.

30:53

You know how when you buy a

30:55

red Volkswagen, you start seeing them

30:57

all over the place? It's the

31:00

same for me now with transformation.

31:02

I'm seeing this all over. Conscious

31:04

awareness. It's embryonic, and I know

31:06

it scares the heck out of

31:08

people, folks. I know it does,

31:10

but I'm telling you, economic offerings

31:12

don't care about your trepidations and

31:14

your feelings and your anxiety. They

31:16

come at you no matter what,

31:18

and I think this is coming.

31:20

I really do. We got to wrap it

31:22

up though. Yeah. Oh, sorry. I'm so out

31:25

of time. Yeah, this is Rob Baker.

31:27

Since you shared what you shared, now everyone's

31:29

going to be triggered by hearing transformation economy

31:31

going forward. I hope so. But before

31:33

we let you go, where can our listeners learn

31:35

more and find out more about you and

31:37

what you're doing? We've been talking about

31:39

this on our. show thesoulofinterprise.com. We've interviewed

31:42

Joe Pine twice, the last one

31:44

on this topic, and he is

31:46

vowed to come back when the

31:48

book comes out, so we will

31:50

definitely have him back on. And

31:53

then I would say, you can

31:55

find me at, you know, I'm

31:57

on LinkedIn, I'm on Twitter at

31:59

Ronald, They

34:00

did. They did. They did. Very

34:02

blessed that my parents have always

34:04

encouraged me to do more, be

34:06

more, and don't let disabilities or

34:09

whatever hold you back. You can

34:11

get through it. So I can't

34:13

wish my parents provided me with

34:15

anything more than what they have

34:17

already. I can't. Sorry. I mean,

34:19

I, yeah, it's, so it's, I'm

34:21

going to say this is a

34:24

product of being a girl. And

34:26

so it's fascinating what my dad

34:28

did for other people's sons versus

34:30

what he did for his own

34:32

daughters. So, you know, I look

34:34

back now and I'm like, dang,

34:37

like golf is such a good

34:39

example. The man only golfed on

34:41

days that ended in day. And

34:43

I didn't learn how to golf

34:45

until five years ago, because I

34:47

wanted to. And I'm like, why

34:50

didn't he hang out with us

34:52

in the golf course? Well, I

34:54

mean, my dad didn't do a

34:56

lot of things. But it was

34:58

the business one. No, but for

35:00

business wise, like, you know, he,

35:03

there were a lot of missed

35:05

opportunities where we were more like.

35:07

Yeah, you were right where we

35:09

were thought of in the box

35:11

that was existing in the 80s

35:13

and 90s. And so. It's a

35:16

bummer that shows now about masochism.

35:18

I really appreciate you doing that.

35:20

You're welcome. But yeah, no. So

35:22

the nice answer was introduced to

35:24

me to the right people. How

35:26

about that one? Awesome. Awesome. All

35:28

right. So let's move on to

35:31

the takeaways. Yeah. Baker was sharing.

35:33

I'm going to go first. He

35:35

said one line that just to

35:37

me epitomized what transformation is. He

35:39

said, the customer is the product.

35:41

And I just started repeating that

35:44

over and over again. And by

35:46

seeing it from that perspective. Now

35:48

I understand what transformation is. Ron,

35:50

will be Ron. Yeah, I've got

35:52

a bunch of quotes written down,

35:54

all sorts of all sorts of

35:57

gems here. But what I really

35:59

like, and I think that I'm

36:01

going to be using is math

36:03

at the moment versus results in

36:05

the outcome, the desires. They're so

36:07

focused on getting the work done

36:10

versus what the customer really needs

36:12

at the end of the day.

36:14

Yes, they need a clean set

36:16

of books, but what do they

36:18

really need? More money in their

36:21

pocket. And mine were my biggest

36:23

ones were the questions that what

36:25

is your desired future? I've been

36:28

spending so much time on

36:30

specifically the hero's journey and

36:32

redefining and refining the sales

36:34

calls and discovery calls for our

36:36

members recently. And it's been for

36:38

the last four months. That's what

36:41

I feel like I've been focusing

36:43

on. And that's just another wonderful

36:45

questions. I'm also this is also kind

36:48

of I'm feeling better about. what

36:50

we've been doing here at Profit

36:52

Per Professionals because I know we

36:54

had discussions that transformation may have

36:56

been too big for us to,

36:58

you know, empower our members with.

37:01

But this conversation today lets me

37:03

know that I think we were

37:05

ahead of the curve. I was

37:07

just going to say, LFG, let's go.

37:09

Right? We're just early. We were

37:12

just too early. Yeah. And, you

37:14

know, the words that we use,

37:17

I think, are going to be

37:19

echoed by the industry. And so,

37:21

you know, this, this was great

37:24

for me as, you know, moving

37:26

things forward. Yeah. Hey, Ron

37:28

Baker's been preaching value-based

37:30

pricing since the 90s.

37:32

I know. That's a

37:34

very That's very enlightening. All right,

37:37

let's do an Obi-Wan insider access. What

37:39

do you got? Okay, this is this

37:41

is this is no BS. This is

37:43

really easy. This is something that I've

37:45

done here that you can do in

37:48

your own business. And it works. And

37:50

that's literally by a couple of Ron's

37:52

book. Okay, the first book that I

37:54

personally purchased was implementing value pricing. It's

37:57

about this big. But that is the

37:59

Bible guy. if you really want

38:01

to learn and understand by that

38:03

one. The next one that I

38:05

really enjoyed reading, that was a

38:07

lot of fun with Soul of

38:09

Enterprise. It's a compliment to Ron's

38:11

podcast. So, you know, I'm not

38:14

just blowing smoke at Ron, but

38:16

I have been following him since.

38:18

day one in this industry. He's

38:20

a thought leader and he's genuine

38:22

in everything that he does and

38:24

he honestly wants to help the

38:26

profession. So follow Ron, buy his

38:28

books and understand what he's trying

38:30

to do here. It will make

38:33

a difference in your business and

38:35

your customers' businesses. That's my blown.

38:37

Oh, well done. I'm going to wrap

38:39

this up with an aphorism that

38:41

you already know, and I'm going

38:43

to make it a McCalloraphorism. Oh,

38:45

jeez, here we go. Oh, boy.

38:47

Yeah. The aphorism everyone knows is

38:50

revenue is vanity, profit is sanity.

38:52

Here's how I'm going to McCallosize

38:54

it. Revenue is vanity, profit

38:56

is sanity, debt is inhumanity. Oh!

38:58

And when I say that, it's because

39:00

most debt eats at our

39:02

emotions incessantly, day in, day out. The

39:05

worry and the stress it puts on

39:07

the business. If you have debt sitting

39:09

in your business, it's probably pulling you

39:11

and distracting you from doing what you

39:13

need to do in your business. Let's get

39:16

rid of that debt. All right. Awesome, guys.

39:18

Nice job, Mike Ron. Thank you very

39:20

much for sharing your knowledge with us

39:22

listeners. Thank you again. Don't forget to

39:25

subscribe to Grow My Accounting Practice podcast.

39:27

And Liz, what else do they

39:29

really, really, really, really need to

39:31

do? Well, if they are interested

39:33

in the transformation of company, if

39:35

they're interested, interested in transforming their

39:37

clients, taking them from where they

39:39

are now, which is some sort

39:41

of name to where they want

39:44

to go, which is wherever they

39:46

tell you. Go to profitfirstprofessions.com. Click

39:48

on that, become a member, but

39:50

you'll have the opportunity to spend

39:52

some time getting to know Ron,

39:54

himself, what the slip people discuss,

39:56

if and how. You may be of

39:58

service to your audience. Let's help

40:01

you transform your customers.

40:03

That's it. That's what

40:05

we're talking about. Let's

40:07

make this place a

40:09

greater earth. All right.

40:12

Thanks, everybody.