0:07

As a doctor, would you write me

0:09

a reference letter for medical school?

0:11

Yes, I would write a reference letter.

0:13

Yeah, what would it say in it?

0:15

It wouldn't necessarily be favorable, Jonathan.

0:18

I'm sure a little bit favorable.

0:21

Here.

0:22

Let me get you started, Okay, to whom it may concern,

0:25

go ahead, you take it over, Go

0:27

ahead.

0:28

John Yeah, you

0:31

would be a terrible doctor, the worst

0:33

ever. You don't listen, and you

0:35

just keep going on and on. You'd be doing all the talking.

0:37

Yeah, but a doctor has to ask questions to find

0:39

out the symptoms.

0:40

Yeah, but you wouldn't actually listen to the answer

0:43

because you don't listen. You would be arguing

0:46

with patients talking about yourself

0:48

if you'd be thinking about something else, like whoa.

0:52

Alex just liked one of my tweets

1:00

from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan

1:02

Goldstein and this is Heavyweight

1:06

today's episode The

1:08

Marshes. I

1:20

first met Steve marsh at my brother in

1:22

law's wedding. In conversation

1:25

that night, Steve was given to making

1:27

soulful observations punctuated

1:29

by the word man. Steve

1:32

is a big guy, shaggy haired, and

1:34

comfortable in his own skin. He's

1:36

a little like the dude, no matter

1:38

where he is or what the occasion, he

1:41

gives off the impression of wearing a comfy

1:43

bathrobe flung open wide to

1:45

the world. It's

1:47

perhaps also worth mentioning, though, while

1:49

Steve wasn't invited to the wedding per se,

1:52

all the guests were both happy and unsurprised

1:55

to see him. Of course Steve would

1:57

be there, and his entrance felt

1:59

like a lovable Saint Bernard had just

2:01

wandered into the reception hall. Would

2:04

you send a wedding invitation to a Saint Bernard?

2:07

Of course not, but would you be darned

2:09

pleased to see one show up? Absolutely.

2:18

The next time Steve and I crossed paths was

2:20

at another wedding. While everyone

2:22

was inside drinking and eating, I

2:24

found Steve outside, standing

2:26

by the Hudson River, looking preoccupied.

2:30

It was there, smoking from his pack

2:32

of Menthols, that Steve told

2:34

me about his mom and a secret

2:36

she'd been carrying around in shame for

2:38

almost forty years. Steve

2:41

said the only reason he even knew about

2:44

it was because it had slipped out by

2:46

accident, and now that it had

2:48

he didn't know what to do about it. So

2:51

after the wedding. We set aside some time

2:53

to talk.

2:55

How's father had gone.

2:56

Man, it's great, it's really great.

2:58

Before getting into it, I catch

3:00

up. He's just gotten engaged,

3:02

and because he's Steve, their

3:04

proposal he made was an elaborate production,

3:07

involving a ring baked into a cake

3:09

and an entire restaurant of people

3:12

cheering. His fiancee crying

3:15

makes regular guys like me look real bad.

3:17

I know, man, her brothers are pissed at me

3:19

too. They're like, great, job, dude.

3:22

With the pleasantries out of the way, we get

3:24

to the unpleasantry. His mom's

3:26

secret. Steve says he first

3:28

learned of it in two thousand and eight on

3:31

the fourth of July.

3:32

I was riding my bike and

3:36

my phone was going off like NonStop,

3:39

and I thought it was like a girl

3:41

or a drug dealer. It was like late, you know, it's like

3:43

two in the morning. So finally

3:46

I pulled my bike over and

3:48

I saw I was my sister. My sister had called like

3:50

fifteen or sixteen times, you know.

3:53

Steve's sister, Megan Marsh, was

3:55

up at the family sprawling trailer lot

3:57

in rural Minnesota, a place they

4:00

marshland on summer holiday

4:02

weekends, it's tradition for the entire

4:05

Marsh clan to head to Marshland to

4:07

drink, hang out and just be the

4:09

Marshes. Seeing all the calls

4:11

from Megan, Steve worried there was trouble

4:14

up at Marshland.

4:15

As I called, and I was like, what's going on?

4:18

And she was hysterical,

4:21

you know, like if

4:24

you knew that we had And

4:27

I was like, wait.

4:28

Hold on, I'm

4:31

trying to get all this out, and I'm crying

4:34

and hysterical.

4:36

This is Steve's sister.

4:37

Megan.

4:38

Between violent sobs, she explained

4:40

to Steve what had happened up

4:42

at Marshland. Steve's parents had gone to bed,

4:45

but Megan continued to hang out with a handful

4:47

of people around the bonfire.

4:50

There's highly five

4:52

seven of us sitting around the fire and

4:55

we start talking about Weedi Bords.

4:58

So to keep up her end of the conver Megan

5:01

tells the group an anecdote about her mom, how

5:03

a Ouiji board had accurately predicted

5:06

the main facts of her mom's life. It

5:08

had prophesied her future husband's initials

5:11

p M for Pete Marsh, as

5:14

well as the amount of kids or mom would have

5:16

three.

5:18

And my aunt is sitting, you know, all three

5:20

feet away from me, and my

5:22

aunt said, well, she

5:24

had four kids.

5:31

And initially I'm confused.

5:34

You know, I've been drinking a little bit, so it's

5:36

slowly coming into my brain. What's happening.

5:39

I looked down at my fingers and Cony,

5:41

Stephen, me, Kevin, what

5:44

what are you talking about? And

5:47

then I look up around

5:49

the fire. Everybody stopped. Everybody's

5:51

silent, and they're all staring at

5:53

me.

5:55

So standing in this park talking

5:57

to my sister on the fourth of July,

6:00

she told me that my

6:03

parents had another

6:05

child, that we had another

6:07

sibling that they gave up for adoption years

6:11

before they married.

6:13

The Marsh kids were full grown adults when

6:16

they learned of their full sibling, a

6:18

little girl one hundred percent Marsh

6:21

that their mom had named Lisha. When

6:29

Steve's parents, Geene and Pete, started

6:31

dating, it was just a fling, and

6:34

when Jeane became pregnant, they decided

6:36

to put the baby up for adoption. The

6:39

unusual thing, though, is that after that

6:41

Jeane and Pete ended up staying together. Seven

6:44

years later they had Steve, and

6:47

now they've been married for almost fifty

6:49

years, but all the while,

6:52

neither of Steve's parents ever spoke

6:54

of their eldest child.

6:56

In my family is like shockingly

6:58

open, so that the fact that they

7:01

sat on this secret

7:04

it was wild.

7:06

It's now been years since the truth came out,

7:09

and the Marshes want to do something with that truth.

7:12

But Steve says, procrastination is

7:14

a family trait, and in this

7:16

case, decades of his mother's shame has

7:18

turned that procrastination into

7:20

total inertia. But

7:23

Lisha is never far from any of their thoughts.

7:26

Megan wonders what it would be like to finally have

7:28

a sister, and Steve's younger brother,

7:30

Kevin, wonders if Lesha's a redhead

7:32

like him. Kevin scans every room

7:34

for red hair. And then

7:37

there's Steve's dad. A few

7:39

days after the secret slipped out, Steve

7:41

met up with him, as he does every week.

7:43

My dad is a retired truck

7:46

driver and kind of a tough guy, and

7:48

every Monday night we shoot shotguns together

7:51

in the summertime.

7:52

In the car on the way to go shooting, Steve

7:55

asked his dad how often he thought about Lisha,

7:58

and.

7:58

He said every day. And

8:00

we drive it's like a half hour drive

8:03

on the freeway, and about

8:06

halfway there, I no, shit,

8:08

man, this is like a

8:10

short story thing. It's almost too

8:12

corny. But there

8:14

was two ducks, like two adult

8:17

ducks and three little baby ducks

8:20

crossing the freeway and my dad

8:22

dipped like deep into the shoulder

8:25

of the freeway and then recover

8:28

the car and like we

8:30

waited a while, and he's like, did you see me miss those

8:33

ducks? And I was like, yeah,

8:35

yeah, And

8:38

it's one of the few times I've seen my dad cry.

8:44

But as much as the Marshes think about Lisha,

8:46

when it comes to actually trying to find her, they're

8:49

all waiting on Steve's mom.

8:51

I think my dad for as

8:53

much of an alpha tough guy. I

8:55

think my mom runs his shit,

8:57

you know. Yeah. Yeah, So

9:00

it's kind of up to her, and

9:02

I think she is scared

9:05

about what maybe she'll find out, like if

9:07

Licia has hard feelings

9:09

about this, or if Alicia's

9:12

life didn't go as well as

9:14

it could have, or how

9:17

Lesha will feel to meet her family

9:19

that's intact and went on to have

9:21

three more kids, like and wouldn't that be

9:23

weird?

9:25

Sure, the family's intact, and as Steve

9:27

explains, the Marsh kids are all close

9:29

and doing well now. Megan has a

9:31

career as a nurse, Steve writes, and

9:34

Kevin repairs home appliances. But

9:36

growing up there were a lot of drugs and

9:39

a lot of trouble. Kevin had a serious

9:41

meth problem, and Steve and Megan drank

9:43

too much. Steve almost flunked

9:45

out of high school, and Kevin and Megan

9:47

both dropped out. There was one

9:50

Christmas the Marshas spent visiting Kevin

9:52

in treatment, and one weekend Steve

9:54

spent in jail because he and Kevin got

9:56

into a brawl over a Beastie boy CD.

9:59

And I'm just like Leisha,

10:02

who was raised in a totally

10:04

separate environment. I

10:07

just wonder what she's like. You

10:09

know, our house was so loud

10:11

when growing up, and

10:14

uh like, I always thought my family's

10:16

kind of weird. Like they drink windsor

10:19

seven up, like it's gonna be

10:21

vanishing from the face of the earth.

10:23

So what what is windsor seven up?

10:25

That's a that's the Marsh family drink man.

10:29

I pardon my ignorance.

10:30

Seven and seven man, it could be seagrams too.

10:33

Canadian whiskey and lemon

10:35

lime soda.

10:37

But finding out whether Lesha is like a Marsh

10:40

steeped in windsor and chaos isn't

10:42

so simple.

10:43

So the hospital no longer exists.

10:46

The hospital where your mom had her.

10:49

Right and it was a close Catholic adoption,

10:51

like my parents never met the couple

10:54

that adopted Lesha.

11:00

Steve has no information about where

11:02

Lisha ended up. He had a friend

11:04

with connections run the name Lesha Marsh

11:06

through an FBI database but found

11:09

nothing. It's almost certain Lisha's

11:11

name isn't even Lisha anymore. Because

11:14

it was a closed adoption, the only way to

11:16

reach her is through the adoption agency. Steve's

11:19

mom has to write Lisha a letter asking

11:21

to make contact, but whenever

11:23

she's trying to write in the past, her

11:26

sense of shame gets the better of her, Like.

11:28

She wants to do it, she said she would do it, Like

11:32

what do I do you know? Like how do

11:34

we make this happen?

11:41

And this is why Steve has come to me. He

11:44

needs a spur to action, someone

11:46

who isn't a Marsh to make sure the letter

11:48

gets written.

11:50

We could use some help. It's

11:52

almost like when you want to like go

11:54

to the gym or something, just like have somebody

11:57

else who's going with you, like some

11:59

kind of account of ability. Because

12:02

when we talk about it as a family, and we do

12:04

whenever we get together, like my parents

12:06

are all game for it, but then

12:09

it just doesn't happen, and it hasn't

12:11

happened.

12:12

Do you need to really kind

12:14

of show up with a

12:16

pad of paper and a pen and

12:19

you know, place it on the table in

12:21

front.

12:22

Of her, right, like, let's do this now.

12:25

And so, in a bid to do this now, I

12:28

tell Steve to phone his mom and

12:30

tell her to clear her schedule because

12:32

his wedding friend Jonathan is boarding

12:34

a plane to Minnesota and heading

12:36

straight to their house to make sure

12:39

she writes that letter.

12:42

I just think we need a little help, you know.

12:45

Yeah, Wow, what you need

12:47

is your mother to get off her aff.

12:51

So who is this guy?

12:54

Just tell me again.

12:58

After the break, if this guy

13:00

pays a visit to the marshes Hi

13:14

in Minneapolis. I picked Steve up in my

13:16

airport rental and we head to his parents'

13:19

house for some letter writing. He's

13:21

nervous, which is not helped by

13:23

my economy sized car. Do you have

13:25

a you have an up room.

13:29

How tall a man are you?

13:30

Six?

13:31

Steve struggles to shoehorn his body

13:33

into the passenger seat. Do you want

13:35

to set the back seat?

13:37

You could?

13:39

I'm sorry, I'm so good. Although

13:42

Steve says it's all good

13:45

thanks to my Minnesotan to American translator,

13:47

app, I know that he's in fact, deeply

13:50

resentful.

13:51

You're gonna have to direct me because I don't know

13:54

where your parents live, But wouldn't.

13:55

It be weird if they did. We

14:01

arrive at Steve's parents place. It's

14:03

a one story rambler, cluttered

14:05

and cozy.

14:06

Hi, I'm

14:09

Jean.

14:14

We settle in around the kitchen table. Pete

14:17

makes his way through his daily two pots of coffee,

14:19

and Jeane quietly stares down at a blank

14:22

piece of paper to help spur

14:24

her letter writing. I asked how she and Pete

14:26

first met, and Jeane becomes animated,

14:29

telling me about a party at which Pete

14:31

stumbled in late with a group of friends.

14:34

They were all drunk. I can't remember

14:36

if he kissed me on the

14:38

knee and bit me in the ankle, or vice

14:40

versa.

14:41

That's like what the serpent did in

14:44

the biblical story.

14:46

So and I should have never eaten that apple.

14:50

Soon after, Jeane moved into a new apartment

14:52

building, where, in a delightful sitcom

14:54

twist, Pete was living right down

14:56

the hall. That Thanksgiving,

14:59

Pete stopped by Jean's place, drank

15:01

her entire bottle of Windsor, then drunkenly

15:03

proceeded to show the dinner guests as gun.

15:06

Guns are no big thing for me, because

15:09

I got them laying all.

15:09

Over the place.

15:11

To illustrate, Pete reaches on top

15:13

of the kitchen cupboard and pulls down a

15:15

forty five automatic. He places

15:17

it on the table next to the pie

15:19

that Steve brought. How many

15:22

guns do you have hitten around the house.

15:24

There's one over on the fireplace downstairs.

15:33

The party, the bottle of windsor the gun.

15:36

These are all parts of the marsh family origin

15:38

story that Steve knows well.

15:41

But the part of the story that Steve has never heard

15:43

is house parents went from a casual fling

15:45

to a decade's long marriage.

15:48

I'm pregnant. I

15:52

went home and told my mother, and

15:54

she flipped out on me. I

15:57

remember leaving and I was down the basement

15:59

with my mother in the laundry room. I

16:01

just remember running up the stairs and

16:04

crying and getting in the car and driving

16:06

back to my apartment because

16:08

I was trash in her

16:11

mind.

16:13

Jeane came from a strict Catholic family.

16:16

When she got pregnant, her mother told her

16:18

she could only visit home after dark, carrying

16:21

a coat in front of her stomach. At

16:23

one point during the pregnancy, Jean slipped

16:25

on the ice and had to go to the hospital

16:28

for hemorrhaging.

16:29

And my mother came into

16:31

the hospital and said, you

16:33

can't even have a baby, right. I

16:38

mean, she was so disappointed

16:41

in me. I don't think she

16:43

ever forgave me for

16:46

that. That's the one thing

16:48

I said to her before she died, is I

16:50

am sorry for disappointing you.

16:55

Lisia was born premature, so

16:57

the doctors kept her at the hospital for a week.

17:00

This meant Jean ended up spending a week with

17:02

her newborn daughter.

17:05

I remember holding her and

17:08

crying and

17:10

telling her, you know that I hoped she'd have

17:12

a good life, and said

17:14

I'm sorry that I couldn't keep her.

17:19

After that week, Jean signed away

17:21

her parental rights.

17:23

I didn't think I could raise a child by myself.

17:26

But she never said what

17:30

he never said hey,

17:32

let's get married and raise this baby

17:35

or and I never said it either, but

17:38

his mother, Alice, just took

17:40

me in as this. You

17:42

know, I felt like I was part of the family. So

17:45

I felt this family loved that I

17:48

wasn't getting from my own family.

17:51

You know.

17:53

Pete's mom told Jean how much the whole family

17:56

liked her, how they hoped she would be the one,

17:59

and that painful time brought Geene and Pete

18:01

closer. They ended up really falling

18:03

in love, and eventually they

18:05

did get married, and all

18:08

this time, Lesha, responsible

18:10

for them growing into love together, having

18:12

three more kids, being a family

18:14

for going on fifty years, was

18:17

out there somewhere living a different

18:19

life with a different family.

18:21

And I don't know that, Dad, and

18:24

we've never sat down like this and talked

18:26

about it. It's

18:28

just kind of something that happened forty

18:31

eight years ago.

18:40

For forty eight years, Gene is quietly

18:42

marked Alesha's birthday by repeating

18:44

the same silent prayer. I

18:46

hope she's having a good life.

18:48

And it's that hope that ironically made

18:51

Jeane think twice about ever searching for Lesia.

18:54

She told herself that if Flicia was happy,

18:56

she didn't need to disrupt that happiness by

18:59

introducing her to the Marshes. And they're chaos.

19:02

Our family was so loud

19:04

and so you know, drug

19:07

use and you know, not going

19:09

to school, and it seems

19:11

like there was always so much going

19:14

on. Did I really want

19:16

to bring somebody else into that?

19:19

It was problems that I was

19:22

bringing her into more problems.

19:25

It was hectic.

19:26

Yeah, it was more than hectic.

19:29

See,

19:31

and I'd go do my avon door

19:33

to door and somebody would say, would

19:36

you like to come in for a minute, And I'd sit

19:38

down, And I always said it was

19:40

like I was sitting down in their beige.

19:43

You know, they had this peaceful house,

19:46

neet, nothing out of place, and

19:49

then I'd walk in here and it'd be like jangled.

19:55

So while Steve's motivation for seeking

19:58

out Lesha is pretty simple. He

20:00

has a sister and he wants to meet her, for

20:02

Jean, it's more complicated. Her

20:05

greatest hope is that Lesha is happy and

20:07

well, that she did the right thing in

20:09

giving her up. But if Lisha

20:12

is good, didn't fall into drugs,

20:14

did do well in school, and had a good

20:16

life in the Beige, then trouble

20:18

wasn't something genetic, a fate that

20:20

runs through the marsh blood. It

20:22

was the Jean's thinking something in the

20:25

parenting, her parenting.

20:36

I just want I want

20:38

the kids more or less, to be prepared

20:41

that she may not want anything.

20:43

To do with us.

20:45

I'm open to meeting her. I'm open to

20:47

just pictures, open

20:49

to having her tell me I'm a piece of shit.

20:52

That's fine. I'm

20:54

willing to do whatever she

20:56

wants because I feel the ball is in her

20:59

court. Worst

21:03

case scenario would be if sh had passed

21:05

away and I never.

21:07

Tried.

21:12

Did you want to have pie?

21:14

Now?

21:14

Oh?

21:15

Should I get the ice cream?

21:16

You want?

21:16

Ice cream?

21:17

Steve serves the mixed berry pie that he

21:19

brought and turns us to the matter at

21:21

hand.

21:23

So do you want to try

21:25

the writing the letter?

21:26

Yeah?

21:28

We should do it now.

21:29

So yes, because

21:31

your mother is a procrastinator. Oh,

21:33

I am too, but you probably

21:36

got it from me.

21:39

If Lisha's the procassionaire too, that's the only

21:41

way we'll know.

21:43

Jeane finds it easier to talk than to write,

21:45

so Steve offers to type the letter as

21:47

Jane speaks it aloud. Then you

21:49

can copy it down by hand. Jean

21:52

stares down at the table, trying to get

21:54

started.

21:57

I don't know what to say.

22:00

I feel bad because we stayed together,

22:03

right, and I

22:06

feel like it's been forty eight years now,

22:08

Why you're coming around now, is

22:11

what she'll be thinking.

22:13

Oh, just say I, how are you?

22:21

I remember your name, I remember

22:24

your birthday. I remember

22:26

holding you and

22:30

telling you that I wanted you to

22:32

have a good life.

22:37

Lisha,

22:41

I'm stumbling for words, wondering

22:45

how to, probably

22:49

because it's been so many years, but

22:53

wondering how to, I mean, how to explain

22:55

the fact that I haven't tried

22:58

to contact you all this.

23:00

I don't think we need to get that heavy mer

23:02

mom, give me a call. But also

23:04

you do want to. You want to acknowledge why

23:07

this was meaningful to you. You know, you're like,

23:12

it's tough.

23:13

God, three

23:18

years after you were born, your

23:21

father and I were

23:23

married or got

23:26

back together, while we got back together

23:28

right after. Oh god, see

23:33

now it all seems so stupid.

23:39

But like you can't change

23:42

the past, and

23:44

you needed to live through this in order to have

23:46

respective on it. Yeah, so

23:50

three years after you're born, your

23:52

father and I were married.

23:55

And now have

23:57

two sons and a daughter. Who

24:01

are open to make a contact

24:04

or it does open.

24:05

So I think all of us would like to meet

24:07

you if when you're ready.

24:11

I don't think maybe it needs to be any more than that. That's

24:13

good.

24:15

And then just put our names and.

24:20

We all watch as Gene copies the letter over

24:22

by hand.

24:25

He did good.

24:25

Gee, thank

24:27

you.

24:32

Steve and I head back to the rental for

24:35

a while. We just sit there. I

24:40

think that they're going to get those forms off.

24:42

It's going to happen this week, for sure.

24:45

You really think so?

24:46

Yeah, I think so.

24:48

It doesn't happen. It

24:54

doesn't happen in the next month or the one after

24:56

that. Partly because Steve hasn't

24:58

been spurring his mom. Since

25:00

we all sat down in Jean's kitchen, Steve

25:03

has developed second thoughts about contacting

25:05

Lisha.

25:06

I'm just nervous that she's like

25:09

angry about the way things turned out, and

25:13

I'm nervous, so, like, what kind of impact y'all have

25:15

with my mom. I've

25:18

had some conversations with friends It's

25:20

like, what are you doing this for? I

25:23

don't know, like there's

25:25

real potential for sadness.

25:29

Two more months pass and I'm having

25:31

trouble being a spur to Steve's spurring.

25:35

Hey Steve, it's Jonathan speaking,

25:38

just calling to check in. I can't

25:41

get a hold of anyone, mister

25:43

and missus marsh This is the

25:48

man who came over to your home some time

25:50

ago. Another two months

25:52

go by and still no movement,

25:55

and so I decide that maybe it's better

25:58

to just leave them be. Maybe the

26:00

Marshes would rather just forget the whole thing

26:02

and go back to being the same Marshes they

26:04

always were.

26:13

Hello Jeene,

26:15

Yes, high Jonathan.

26:18

And then, after a half a year of foot

26:20

dragging, I unexpectedly get word

26:23

that Gene has mailed the letter and the application.

26:26

From there, a social worker was assigned

26:29

to the case. Her job to

26:31

find Lisha and ask if she's open

26:33

to receiving Jane's letter. And

26:35

not long after that, the social worker

26:37

gave Jane an update.

26:40

She got a call from

26:44

Alesia and she

26:46

said she was very open to

26:49

seeing my letters.

27:08

Okay, that's coffee, Yeah,

27:13

I have a coffee, mom.

27:14

I brought Canoley's and.

27:16

Back at the Marshes to catch up. Oncelicia

27:19

said she was open to seeing Jeane's letter, the

27:21

social worker mailed it onto her, but

27:24

after that Jean heard nothing for months.

27:27

Then one afternoon at work, Jean

27:30

got an email from the social worker, the

27:33

subject, having read the letter

27:35

you've been waiting for. Attached

27:38

was a scanned copy of a letter from

27:40

Lesia.

27:41

Dear Jean and Pete, thank

27:43

you for your patience while

27:46

I formulate my first response

27:49

to your letter. My name

27:51

is Natalie and I grew up in a suburb

27:53

of Minneapolis.

27:54

Lesha is now Natalie, and

27:56

it turns out she grew up just twenty miles

27:59

from where the marshal left. Her adoptive

28:01

parents are even graduates of the same high

28:03

school as Jeanne. Growing

28:05

up, Natalie always knew she was adopted, and

28:08

she loved the parents who raised her. Natalie

28:10

is now married with two kids.

28:12

The best advice I've received since

28:14

I opened your letter was to take

28:16

it slow. And then she sent

28:19

a picture when she was a little

28:21

girl.

28:22

Do you see a resemblance.

28:24

Oh, she's definitely a marsh Man.

28:26

Yeah,

28:30

Dear Natalie. Pete and I were so

28:33

happy to receive your letter and picture.

28:35

It was truly an answer to my prayers.

28:38

Let me know if you have any questions, I

28:41

will try to answer them to the best

28:43

of my ability.

28:45

And so a correspondence begins.

28:47

You're Gene and Pete. Dear Natalie, who

28:49

did I get my auburn hair from? Heete

28:52

was a redhead? Can I thank for my uni

28:54

brow? When I was young? Grandfather had

28:56

very bushy eyebrows, so he's

28:59

probably the call for love love

29:01

Jeane and Pete.

29:10

Natalie is taking it s low. She's

29:12

cautious and Gene is following her lead,

29:15

but sometimes it can get overwhelming.

29:18

Dear Natalie, we want to wish you the

29:21

happiest of birthdays on the seventeenth.

29:24

I've wished it every year since you were

29:26

born, and I'm so happy

29:28

I can finally tell you. I

29:31

hope someday we can meet, but

29:33

until then, no, You've been loved Pete

29:36

and Jean.

29:39

Natalie's responses are gracious.

29:42

Dear Gene and Pete. My kids constantly

29:44

asked me about the day they were born. We

29:47

moms think about those moments always.

29:49

Someday you will have to tell me about

29:52

our day.

29:54

But there are a lot of some days no specific

29:56

plans. Even after months

29:58

of correspondence, Jean and Natalie

30:01

are still going through Stacy, the social

30:03

worker. They don't exchange phone numbers

30:05

they don't even know each other's email addresses.

30:08

It's tendative. Yeah,

30:11

I mean I've had a relationship with these

30:14

three kids for

30:16

forty years, you know, and

30:18

I haven't had that with her. And

30:21

sometimes that's sad, you know that we

30:24

don't have that. But I think we'll

30:26

get there.

30:27

You want to get there?

30:28

Yeah, I would like to get there.

30:32

Jane finds herself staring at Natalie's picture

30:34

while she's at work, idly thinking

30:36

about what the little girl in the photos childhood

30:39

was like, and then comes the guilt

30:41

and not having been able to give her what she needed.

30:44

And all the while Natalie is so close,

30:47

why.

30:48

Don't you call her up and say come out or no?

30:50

Because she doesn't want that.

30:52

Then we all don't live to be able one

30:55

hundred years old?

30:56

Is dam time?

30:57

That's true?

30:58

You're you are getting run out of time pretty

31:00

soon.

31:02

Well for Pete, it's pretty straight ahead. For

31:05

Jane, it's more complicated. Jane

31:08

wants Natalie to enter her life, but

31:10

at the same time she worries about what Natalie

31:12

will make of that life. How

31:14

will Jeane be able to have Natalie over to her

31:17

home. In Jeane's mind, the

31:19

place is always so untidy, the

31:21

grouting in the bathroom unfinished, the

31:23

tiles in the entryway in need of

31:25

repair. So while Jeane's

31:27

wait for Natalie is filled with hope,

31:30

it's also filled with fear. Time

31:37

ticks by. Natalie and Jane

31:39

continue to exchange letters, and

31:41

eventually Natalie decides they

31:43

don't have to go through Stacy the social worker

31:46

anymore. They can email each other

31:48

directly, and a few months

31:50

after that, Gene asks Natalie

31:52

for her phone number. I

31:54

just want to be able to hear your voice sometimes,

31:57

Gene says, and Natalie

31:59

says yes. Steve's

32:07

wedding is a month away. It's been

32:09

a full year since Natalie received that first

32:12

letter, and Steve wants to invite her to

32:14

the wedding, but Jeane doesn't think

32:16

a big family event is the right setting for everyone

32:18

to meet for the first time, so Gene

32:20

asks Natalie if they can all go out for dinner.

32:23

Natalie writes back and says, I

32:26

think we can make that happen.

32:32

Hi, how are you?

32:36

Doggie?

32:37

And today's the day I

32:39

arrived At Steve's house as he gets ready to meet

32:41

Natalie for dinner, his fiance Maggie,

32:44

and his brother Kevin are there too, Nice.

32:47

To see you. I'm

32:49

Jona, Kevin, how are you

32:52

good.

32:53

Steve has lent Kevin a pair of jeans because

32:55

Kevin was wearing shorts and feared

32:57

they might not be appropriate for meeting your sister

33:00

for the first time. Steve is

33:02

still getting dressed.

33:03

This is my only pair of clean pants

33:05

at the moment. I don't want my new

33:07

sister to smell me, you know what I mean. That'd

33:11

be awful, right, So I want to appear

33:13

to be clean.

33:18

Since the Marshes are worried about making

33:20

a good impression, they've barred me and

33:23

my microphone from the dinner. This

33:26

in spite of my important work documenting

33:29

and interloping. Instead

33:31

of saying all of you rotten

33:33

folks, I tell Steve

33:36

that it's all good. Hey,

33:38

I'm getting pretty good at this Minnesota talk.

33:43

I think we should leave in five or

33:45

ten minutes, okay, and

33:47

we should not spoke we earlier.

33:51

I took zen.

33:52

I'm fine.

34:04

Turn out radio off.

34:05

Steve has made a reservation at a pizza restaurant.

34:08

On the drive there, he worries, but

34:11

as usual, it isn't for himself.

34:14

I worry about my mom.

34:17

The worry has always been twofold.

34:19

Firstly, what if Natalie's life hasn't

34:22

turned out well and it's all Jane's fault

34:24

for having given her up. But

34:26

based on Gene and Natalie's correspondence,

34:28

Natalie has a nice husband, sweet kids,

34:31

and a career that keeps her busy flying

34:33

to far off places like Mexico City

34:35

and Singapore. So now,

34:37

with that first worry allayed, the second

34:40

worry rears its head. What

34:42

if Natalie is not only not in bad shape,

34:45

but in great shape, all due

34:47

to Jane's lack of parenting. In

34:50

other words, Steve's now worried

34:52

that, as far as Jeane might believe,

34:54

it isn't the Jeans, it's

34:56

Gene.

34:58

A person with the same genetic make up as your

35:00

three kids. Who did I

35:03

get all these things? So

35:07

yeah, there's I think there's some pain

35:09

there, man, Like there's some pain with my mom,

35:12

like that she failed us

35:14

or something, or that

35:16

we failed her. Oh

35:20

shit, it's six eighteen? Are we gonna make it?

35:22

Yeah? Whatday?

35:23

Isn't it supposed to be six forty five that you guys are reading

35:25

thirty six thirty? Oh but your folks will be there,

35:28

are they?

35:29

Our family is free disclosed towards.

35:31

Kanelead all the time.

35:33

A few blocks from the restaurant, Steve drops

35:35

me off at the side of the road. He says,

35:37

they'll let me know how it goes. Okay, by

35:40

you guys have fun. Later

35:51

I'll learn that Pete, Jean, and Megan were

35:53

uncharacteristically on time and

35:55

are there to greet Natalie and her husband. When

35:57

they arrive, Geena hugs

35:59

Now and introduces her to Megan.

36:02

Natalie and Megan stare at each other. They

36:05

look so similar. I wish

36:07

I could wear my hair like that, Natalie

36:09

says, and Megan smiles. Steve,

36:12

Maggie, and Kevin arrive as the table is

36:14

being prepared. While they wait,

36:17

they all make nervous small talk. Pete

36:19

fills the silence by talking about how old

36:21

his shoes are, about fishing. The

36:24

others join in, talking about goldfish

36:26

they've owned, the relative merits of pac

36:28

Man versus misspac Man restaurants

36:31

they like, They compare their heights.

36:40

Eventually, the host leads them outside to a

36:42

round wooden table built around a tree.

36:45

The group orders pizza and wine. They

36:48

all cheers. Everyone

36:50

has questions for Natalie. They

36:52

don't totally understand what her job is,

36:54

but it has something to do with selling accounting

36:56

software all over the world. They

36:59

get the impression that she's in charge of things.

37:01

Natalie has a confidence. She

37:04

sits beside Kevin, who shows her a photo of

37:06

himself coming in second in a hot dog eating

37:08

contest. Natalie seems

37:10

impressed. During

37:12

the salad course, Gene tells the story of

37:14

how when Steve first found out about Natalie,

37:17

he joked, thanks for keeping me, Mom.

37:20

It's not too late. Natalie interjects,

37:22

you could still be abandoned. Everyone

37:26

laughs. Natalie shares

37:28

the martial's dark sense of humor. It

37:31

looks like Natalie is coming to Steve's

37:33

wedding. It's

37:39

the kind of night where it seems like it could rain

37:41

at any minute, so Jeane grabs

37:43

the check. Steve sees the look

37:45

on her face as she glances it over Mom.

37:49

He says quietly, so Natalie won't

37:51

hear. We'll help you. The

37:54

kids all go home that night and request Natalie's

37:57

friendship on Facebook. Geene

37:59

and Pete drive with Jeanne smiling

38:01

all the way.

38:03

When we came home that night, Pete

38:06

was opening the door and I just put my hand

38:08

on his shoulder. And I said, you know, God

38:11

looked out for her all these years,

38:14

and so we've been blessed. We

38:17

truly have. It was joyous.

38:20

All the kids are so comfortable. Everybody

38:23

was asking questions. There was a lot

38:25

of laughter. There was a lot of you

38:28

know, joking.

38:29

And talking, and it

38:31

was very emotional. And

38:35

there's still a lot of thought process there

38:37

that's gonna maybe

38:39

be with me all my life.

38:42

But I know that she had a good life

38:45

and she's got a wonderful life now. I

38:48

couldn't have asked for anything more.

38:51

I really couldn't have.

38:58

You felt like you wanted Natalie to have

39:00

a good life, but that was complicated

39:03

because you felt like it might reflect

39:05

on your parenting in some way. So

39:07

I'm wondering, how do you feel about

39:09

that now?

39:13

You still have guilt, But

39:17

I think I just realized that no

39:20

matter what I did or

39:22

didn't do, they've

39:25

all grown up to be wonderful human

39:27

beings.

39:30

And we can move on.

39:34

All the things Jean had worried about, that

39:36

Natalie might resent her, that the family

39:38

might be too much for her. In the end

39:40

didn't matter. That night at

39:42

the restaurant, things were simple. They

39:45

were all just happy to be together, but

39:52

there's still one thing. For

39:54

months, Steve's priority has been his

39:56

mom's feelings, the effect all of this is

39:58

having on her. All the while,

40:01

though a feeling of his own was slowly

40:03

taking shape. At the pizza

40:06

restaurant, Steven wanted to say something

40:08

to Natalie all night, but he couldn't

40:10

find the words.

40:11

Well, I really wish I would have told her is

40:14

thank you man, thank you for you

40:17

you existing, like your miracle

40:19

of coming into the world and the way it happened,

40:22

like brought my parents back together.

40:24

But then, how do you thank someone a

40:27

stranger forgiving your family life,

40:29

for giving you life?

40:31

Hey, how are you good?

40:35

In my role as loyal spur, I've invited

40:37

Stephen Natalie to my office so Steve

40:39

can at least give it a try. It's

40:41

the first time Steve and Natalie have gotten to

40:43

talk one on one since this all began.

40:47

I never thought I

40:50

never thought someone would search for me.

40:53

This is Natalie.

40:55

Wow, He's never he

40:57

never even considered that.

41:01

Steve explains that during the search, the

41:03

marsh is worried that they might not live up to Natalie's

41:06

expectations.

41:07

You know you're you're such an accomplished person.

41:11

Well, gosh, my LinkedIn profile

41:13

is really doing its job of

41:16

a pr major.

41:19

I mean, honestly, like you seem

41:21

like such a funny, like even

41:24

keel person. You know,

41:26

like like you have a wicked sense of humor.

41:29

It's just it's cool. It's cool,

41:32

Like you're funny.

41:35

You know, you're wearing you have an iPhone watch and

41:37

you're killing it.

41:38

You know what I mean?

41:39

That was a gift. Everything's a gift my husband,

41:41

that's all. No, but don't put me on a pedestal.

41:44

I don't deserve it.

41:46

Natalie's uncomfortable with her life being held

41:49

up as a success story. She tries

41:51

to explain that her house had its own share of chaos.

41:54

Her brother faced some of the same challenges

41:56

with drugs and other troubles that the Marsh

41:58

kids faced. It feels like

42:00

what she's trying to say is blood

42:03

parenting. I don't know why things

42:05

turned out the way they have. But

42:11

Steve is undeterred in his effort to offer

42:13

Natalie credit, and so

42:16

tentatively he gets to the

42:18

thing he's been trying to say for a while.

42:20

Now, I mean, I

42:22

feel like it's

42:26

weird to thank somebody

42:28

who didn't elect

42:30

to be adopted. But like, maybe

42:34

my parents would have never gotten

42:37

back together if it

42:39

wasn't for you. You

42:42

brought them together. Like

42:44

I think it was kind of a fling kind of situation

42:47

and we turned into a like

42:50

a forty five year marriage. You

42:52

know, I

42:54

don't know the exact stats, but.

42:58

Natalie can see that Steve's struggling. But

43:01

she's struggling to if

43:03

Steve is trying to say thanks for my life,

43:06

how does she simply say you're welcome.

43:09

So instead, Natalie offers thanks

43:11

of her own in the way of a

43:13

story about Steve's mom.

43:16

In her mom when my mom

43:18

was around, she and I were really really

43:20

close. She

43:22

wanted to think, you

43:25

know what, you know, I wish I could think her. She

43:27

kept saying, I just wish I could thank her, right,

43:32

And when she passed away

43:35

in two thousand and four, she couldn't.

43:38

Yeah, so the first

43:40

thing I wanted to do was

43:43

do the thinking. That

43:46

decision set

43:48

the trajectory of my life.

43:52

I'm so I'm so lucky to

43:55

be where I'm at.

43:57

In the end, Steve and Natalie are both great

44:00

for the same thing, the family

44:02

that they ended up with.

44:09

Everyone always asked well, have

44:11

you ever thought of reaching out? I

44:14

always had the answer. I'm like,

44:17

no, I'm good. I

44:19

have a great family.

44:21

You know.

44:21

Once I open that door, I can never close it. When

44:25

I received the letter, I

44:27

can honestly say I

44:30

didn't have this figured

44:32

out, and I thought about

44:34

what my path would be if

44:37

I'm on a crossroad of do I

44:40

pursue this or do I let it

44:42

go.

44:44

As Natalie speaks, you can see a

44:46

thought flash across Steve's face. All

44:49

this time, he's been trying to thank Natalie

44:51

for something she didn't even decide, rather

44:54

than for the thing that she did decide.

44:56

When you put it like that way, when you put it

44:58

like that, like you

45:01

did have a choice here

45:03

whether to even talk to us, you know, like

45:06

like you could have been like, no, you

45:08

risk you open the door, like and

45:10

and so yeah, I guess Natalie, I do

45:12

thank you for that, man. Like the way that

45:15

you've been with my mom has

45:17

been super cool. Man.

45:20

And I I

45:23

think you for that. Oh well, I

45:28

like she'd kind of deserves

45:31

like, uh, I think like cool

45:34

stuff in life, you know, and like you've

45:38

been really cool man. That's

45:40

choice.

45:51

Ah.

45:53

It's been two and a half years since the search

45:56

for Natalie began, and in that

45:58

time, Natalie's interaction with the

46:00

Marshes have been based around occasions

46:02

Jean's birthday, Steve's wedding, But

46:05

today they're all just hanging out.

46:08

Steve and his new wife, Maggie wanted to have

46:10

everyone over for a backyard barbecue,

46:13

even me. On our way to

46:15

the yard, Steve gives me a quick tour

46:17

of the house, his shelves loaded with

46:20

books, his plans.

46:24

Uh is that indigenous to

46:26

this area?

46:29

Oh?

46:31

Natalie shows up with her husband and two kids.

46:34

Pete, the tough guy who thought about

46:36

Natalie every day for almost fifty years,

46:39

is there to greet them.

46:40

Well, how you guys been?

46:42

Oh?

46:42

Good over here? I

46:45

gotta have a hog absolutely oh.

46:51

Shortly after, Kevin shows up

46:53

with a bottle of vodka and a big bag of

46:55

Frisbees.

46:56

Who hasn't played Frisbee?

46:58

Hey?

47:01

And then Megan, who heads straight for Natalie.

47:06

But there's one person who's running late.

47:08

Should I call your mom and see what she is, sir?

47:13

As it turns out, Jane is still stuck at

47:15

the grocery store buying some last minute

47:17

stuff for the party. Classic

47:19

Steve says the Marshes are unorganized,

47:22

chronically late, and

47:24

maybe that's true. Or maybe

47:27

Jeane is pacing the aisles, procrastinating,

47:30

nervous about what Natalie might make of how

47:32

the Marshes live with their ayahuasca

47:34

plants and vodka Frisbees. But

47:41

in the end, Jeane doesn't wait years,

47:44

weeks, days, or hours. She's

47:47

only late by fifteen minutes. Maybe

47:54

Jane wasn't procrastinating at all. Maybe

47:57

she wanted to show up late, to

47:59

be the last one to walk into the backyard

48:02

with everyone already there and

48:05

see the whole family hanging out,

48:07

joking and talking, everyone

48:10

just happy to be together.

48:12

Oh my God,

48:44

now.

48:45

That the fernitures

48:47

rip turned to its goodwill

48:50

home, now

48:54

that the last month's rent

48:56

is scheming with the damage,

48:59

God take this moment.

49:01

To do so.

49:05

If we imagine, if we too.

49:09

Felt from

49:14

the things.

49:14

At accident lead.

49:21

This episode of Heavyweight was produced by Khalila

49:23

Holt and me Jonathan Goldstein, along

49:25

with Ba Parker and Stevie Lane.

49:27

The show is edited by Jorge just Special

49:30

thanks to Emily Condon, Lulu Miller Hans

49:32

butto Domiano Marquetti, Alex

49:35

Bloomberg, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby

49:37

Lord mixed the episode with original music by

49:39

Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, Blue

49:41

Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord. Additional

49:44

music credits can be found on our website, Gimletmedia

49:47

dot com slash Heavyweight. Our

49:49

theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of

49:51

Epitaph Records, and our ad music is

49:53

by Hailey Shaw. Follow us on Twitter

49:56

at Heavyweight or email us at Heavyweight

49:58

at gimletmedia dot com. You

50:00

can listen for free on Spotify or

50:02

wherever you get your podcasts. We'll

50:05

have our last episode of the season next

50:07

week, so.

50:08

Don't be tweeting us after that, Agata

50:11

saying where's the episode because that's it,

50:13

that we'd had the last one and there's not going

50:15

to be anymore. It's the last one of the season

50:18

is next week.

50:20

Yeah, what she said