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in all Hello,

1:53

if you're listening to this at time

1:56

of release, you probably aren't expecting

1:58

to see a new episode from Hans

2:00

just yet. I don't typically drop the

2:02

episodes in the middle of the week

2:04

and if you're listening on Patreon you

2:06

may notice that this episode is not

2:08

coming out a week early, it is

2:10

also going up on the public feed

2:12

at the same time. If you have

2:14

read the title of the episode or

2:16

the description or listened all the way

2:18

to the end of the last episode,

2:20

you can probably guess why. In

2:22

an extremely rare case for

2:25

a history podcast, our topic

2:27

today is extremely relevant. At

2:29

time of recording, approximately three

2:32

days ago, his holiness,

2:34

Pope Francis I, has

2:36

died. In this

2:38

episode, some of my friends will

2:40

be telling you about the Pope

2:42

who died in 1769, and the

2:45

conclave that came not long afterwards. Since

2:48

Pope, conclaves, and everything around them

2:50

is basically what everyone's talking

2:52

about at the moment, instead of

2:54

releasing this in approximately two

2:56

weeks time when it was intended

2:58

to come out, I'm releasing

3:00

it now so that it's out

3:02

when it's actually relevant. Since

3:04

again, that's actually pretty rare for

3:06

a history podcast. I

3:08

should stress that this certainly

3:11

wasn't the intention. This episode

3:13

was always going to come

3:15

out roughly around this time.

3:18

It's just fortunate or unfortunate,

3:20

depending on who you ask, that

3:23

the Pope has died approximately

3:25

when I was intending to release

3:27

this. The episode was also

3:29

originally titled Oops, the Popes died,

3:31

which I've changed to be

3:33

a little bit more appropriate. Anyway,

3:36

I thought I'd just jump in

3:39

here before the episode starts

3:41

properly to explain why this is

3:43

coming out when it is,

3:45

and also this was not on

3:47

purpose, it was just a

3:49

weird kind of coincidence. But

3:51

even so, I'm putting it out

3:53

there while it is kind of

3:55

relevant. Kia

4:04

ora, g'day and

4:06

welcome to the history

4:08

of Aotearoa, New

4:10

Zealand. Episode

4:13

156. Around

4:15

the world in

4:17

1769. Conclave.

4:21

This podcast is recorded

4:23

in Te Whanganui a

4:25

Tara, the Rohe of

4:27

Muiyupoko Taranaki Whanui Te

4:29

Atiawa and Nati Toa

4:31

Rangatura. We are

4:33

generously supported by our

4:35

amazing patrons, such as

4:37

Michelle and Lorraine. If

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you want to support Hans,

4:42

go to patreon .com slash

4:44

history. Last

4:47

time we heard about

4:49

events in France and

4:51

the 13 colonies in

4:53

our tour around the

4:56

world. Today, we

4:58

head to Italy where the

5:00

Pope has died under

5:02

mysterious circumstances, and as such,

5:05

a conclave has been called

5:07

to elect his successor. To

5:09

start, Fry and Brie

5:11

from Pontifex will tell

5:13

us all about the

5:15

controversy surrounding Pope Clement

5:17

XIII. Hello,

5:29

this is Fry from Pontifax. And

5:32

I'm Brie, and Pontifax is a

5:34

papal history podcast ranking all of

5:36

the popes from Peter to Francis.

5:39

Now Fry, I want to tell

5:41

you, the year 1769 was

5:43

a very interesting year for the

5:45

Catholic Church, particularly because

5:47

it began with the

5:49

death of a pope under

5:52

highly suspicious circumstances. Ooh,

5:54

I love a good murder mystery. Well,

5:58

let's see what you

6:00

think of this one. So,

6:02

the Pope in question,

6:04

Pope Clement XIII, had been

6:07

elected in July of

6:09

1758, and despite being generally

6:11

described as well -intentioned, mild

6:13

-mannered, honest, devout, moral, steady,

6:16

learned, and diligent, Clement

6:18

was not a

6:20

popular pope. No. No.

6:23

And this is for a number of reasons. First,

6:26

to give some context, he

6:28

had been born as Carlo della

6:30

Torre Rezonico, a Venetian,

6:33

and although he was technically

6:35

born into a noble

6:37

family, it was a new

6:39

noble family. Or,

6:41

as historian J. N. D.

6:43

Kelly puts it, an extremely

6:45

rich commercial family which had

6:48

purchased its ennoblement in 1687. So...

6:51

This of course made

6:53

him immediately less popular with

6:55

older established noble families

6:57

who saw him as an

6:59

upstart or nouveau riche. He

7:02

was also one of the only

7:04

popes of the era that made

7:06

any attempt to connect with Protestants

7:08

seeking common ground. This

7:10

did not lead to any

7:12

amount of success and only

7:14

served to displease both sides.

7:17

Oh, and he also revived

7:19

the fig leaf campaign, which

7:21

had originally been started in

7:23

the century to cover

7:26

the nudity of classical sculptures

7:28

and paintings with fig leaves,

7:30

which we all know is

7:32

an extra level of Prudish

7:34

lame. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

7:37

And this wasn't even the first attempt. This was

7:39

like round two or three. How many fig

7:41

leaves do we need? Do we need to put

7:43

fig leaves on fig leaves because we didn't

7:45

do well enough? Well,

7:47

they would put it on, and then they'd take

7:49

it off, and then they'd paint over it, and

7:52

then they'd retake the paint off, and now he's

7:54

putting them back on, because he's that kind of

7:56

brood. But all of

7:58

this pales in comparison with

8:00

his most controversial position. The

8:03

main reason that Poe Clement

8:05

XIII was unpopular has to do

8:07

with the Society of Jesus,

8:09

better known today as the Jesuits.

8:12

Now, at this time... The

8:14

Jesuits were public enemy

8:17

number one, according to the

8:19

rulers of France, Spain,

8:21

Portugal, Naples, and more, for

8:24

a number of reasons, including

8:26

being too independent, being too

8:28

allied with the Pope, being

8:30

too financially successful, or

8:32

being an obstacle to profit, and

8:35

overreaching or interfering

8:37

in secular politics. Too

8:39

much across several

8:41

categories. Yes, they just

8:43

hated the Jesuits at this

8:46

point. And as a result

8:48

of all these too much

8:50

too many things, European rulers

8:52

were calling on the Pope

8:54

to dissolve the Order of

8:56

the Society of Jesus with

8:58

increasing degrees of pressure. However,

9:02

Pope Clement completely disagreed that

9:04

the Jesuits were a problem

9:06

because, of course, any extension

9:08

of papal authority was good

9:11

for him. and adamantly refused

9:13

to dissolve the order. Perhaps

9:15

this was because he had

9:18

personally received a Jesuit education,

9:20

or because he still personally

9:22

admired the order, but

9:24

he even went as far as

9:26

to openly defend and praise

9:28

the order in a papal bowl

9:30

called Apostolicum Passendi, essentially adding an

9:32

official stamp of papal approval to

9:34

all of their missions and all

9:37

of the things they were doing

9:39

in these countries. And

9:41

Clement's defense of the Jesuits

9:43

rankled all of the kings

9:45

of Europe. And when those

9:47

kings expelled the Jesuits from

9:50

their countries, they regularly

9:52

forced them onto ships and

9:54

sailed them directly to the Pope

9:56

to let him deal with

9:58

them instead. They basically put them

10:00

on a boat and they're like, well, you're a

10:02

gift to the Pope now, get out. Just,

10:06

I don't want that sort

10:08

of gift. What a terrible gift.

10:10

No, and it does not

10:12

go well. Clement had been eager

10:14

to defend the Jesuits, but

10:17

issuing a papal bull was an

10:19

entirely different practical matter than

10:21

being prepared to like house and

10:23

feed and care for a

10:25

massive influx of expelled Jesuits in

10:28

Rome. Which...

10:30

know, makes things bad in

10:32

Rome and makes the people

10:34

of Rome extremely unhappy as

10:36

well, which made the situation

10:38

worse. So, Clement

10:41

then decided to excommunicate the

10:43

European leaders for their expulsion

10:45

of the Jesuits. But

10:47

this did not have the desired

10:49

effect of cowing them back into

10:51

obedience. We didn't get a bunch

10:53

of sad people staring at candles.

10:57

Exactly. That did not

10:59

happen. So he decides to take

11:01

it one step further and decides,

11:03

ooh, okay, so some of you who

11:05

are sending me Jesuits, some of

11:07

you I've excommunicated who are not listening,

11:09

what if I just reinstate my

11:11

claim of ownership over your territories because

11:13

they used to be part of

11:15

the Papal States? And

11:17

this straight up antagonized

11:19

all of them, particularly

11:22

France and Spain and

11:24

Naples, into a full uproar.

11:26

and likely would have

11:28

resulted in large -scale

11:30

invasions and outright war if

11:32

Clement hadn't sort of

11:34

been backed into a

11:36

corner and forced to

11:38

relent. And so,

11:41

with his bluff called, Pope Clement

11:43

finally agreed to host a

11:45

consistory to address the Jesuit situation

11:47

and set it for the

11:49

3rd of February, 1769.

11:52

Ooh. It's my birthday,

11:54

but not my birthday. Many hundreds

11:56

of years before your birthday. However,

12:00

Fry, this meeting

12:02

would never come to pass.

12:04

Because of the murder. Because

12:06

of the potential suspicious

12:08

circumstances of the murder. What

12:10

happened on the evening

12:12

before February 2nd was recorded

12:14

in a letter from

12:16

Monsignor Jose de Azra. So

12:18

we're going to follow

12:20

his version of events. Azra

12:23

tells us that earlier in the

12:25

day, Pope Clement had conducted the solemnities

12:27

of the Feast of the Purification

12:29

of Mary, quote, with such

12:31

energy that he appeared to be

12:33

in glowing good health, and

12:36

ate a robust lunch before

12:38

receiving visits from the Cardinal Secretary

12:40

of State and his nephew,

12:42

who happened to be the senator

12:44

of Rome. It

12:46

was also noted that the Pope did

12:48

not leave the palace at any point

12:50

that day, quote, since Rome had been

12:52

in the grip of cold weather for

12:54

some days. After

12:56

his audiences, Pope Clement

12:58

then retired to bed. But

13:00

as the Pope was being assisted

13:02

into his bedclothes, and I do

13:04

mean assisted because his chamberlain was

13:06

literally pulling his socks off, he

13:09

collapsed, having a fit

13:11

and crying aloud. Odio!

13:13

Odio! Que delore! Or, oh

13:15

god, oh god, what

13:17

pain! Oh. Yes.

13:20

Doctors were quickly summoned, and they

13:22

tried to bleed him. That's

13:24

a bad choice. What bad science.

13:27

Yeah, but the pope was already

13:29

bleeding internally, and with blood

13:32

gurgling in his mouth, he died

13:34

less than 24 hours to

13:36

the start of his Jesuit consistently.

13:39

Very sudden. Wow. He probably

13:41

ate something. Did

13:43

he? Very sudden. Very

13:46

suspicious. So suspicious. So

13:49

suspicious. So

13:52

has the Pope been poisoned

13:54

to eliminate his defense of the

13:56

Jesuits and put an end

13:58

to the society of Jesus once

14:00

and for all? Or was

14:02

this purely mundane and circumstantial and,

14:04

you know, death by aneurysm?

14:06

What do we think? You know,

14:08

okay, death by aneurysm doesn't -

14:10

you don't like catastrophically bleed

14:12

internally, do you? Gurgling from the

14:14

mouth? Yeah, gurgling from the

14:16

mouth, that part. Like, usually it's

14:18

like, oh, your heart did

14:20

a thing. Oh, your lung did

14:22

a thing. Oh, your brain

14:24

did a thing. There's not really

14:26

gurgling involved. Oh, but

14:29

there was gurgling involved. Yeah, which

14:31

seems like it's something else. Yeah,

14:33

and what else makes it

14:35

seem like something else is how

14:37

the next conclave was going

14:39

to play out. And so now

14:42

we're going to send you

14:44

off to Pontifax Editor and host

14:46

of Popular History slash Cardinal

14:48

Numbers, Greg, to tell you

14:50

about what happened while selecting the

14:52

next pope. And that's

14:54

where I wanted it. Beautiful. Since

15:21

Pontifex has already

15:23

introduced Greg of popular

15:25

history and cardinal

15:27

numbers I won't keep

15:29

you waiting and

15:32

will let him take

15:34

it away with

15:36

some more great church

15:38

music This is

15:40

a popular popular podcast

15:42

Hello everyone, I'm

15:44

Greg. I'm the host

15:46

of popular history

15:48

history through pope colored

15:50

glasses and cardinal

15:52

numbers, ranking all the cardinals

15:54

from the Catacombs to Kingdom Cum. Thomas

15:57

invited me on to talk about what's

15:59

going on in my area in 1769, so

16:01

let's get on with it. On

16:04

February 2nd, 1769,

16:06

Pope Clement XIII died suddenly,

16:09

as in, apparently, didn't even

16:11

receive last rites suddenly, right

16:14

before a meeting he had called to discuss

16:16

the suppression of the Jesuit order. It

16:18

was suspicious, but not in

16:21

the way you might be thinking, as

16:23

Clement had been fairly friendly to the Jesuits,

16:25

pushing back against campaigns calling for

16:27

their suppression from the crowned heads

16:29

of Portugal, Spain, France,

16:32

and beyond. Basically, every

16:35

Catholic monarch was in favor of

16:37

the suppression of the Jesuits, probably in

16:39

part because, if I understand

16:41

things correctly, that would allow them to

16:43

take their stuff. The emperors

16:45

and kings of this world are always in

16:47

favor of getting stuff. Morto

16:50

un Papa se ne fa un

16:52

ultra. When the Pope

16:54

dies, we make another. An

16:56

Italian saying goes, probably half -pronounces

16:58

Latin because my habits are hard

17:00

to break. Anyways, Clement

17:03

XIII has died, and the

17:05

process for making Clement XIV began

17:07

almost immediately after the November

17:10

Diales, with the conclave kicking off

17:12

on February 15th. As

17:14

you may well have guessed, Sources agree

17:16

that the question of what to do

17:18

about the campaign to suppress the Jesuits

17:20

loomed large. Also,

17:22

probably predictable, was the

17:24

fact that several Cardinals representing the courts

17:26

that had been petitioning Pope Clement to

17:29

suppress the Jesuits now advocated for picking

17:31

a future Pope who would do just

17:33

that. According to

17:35

the Catholic Encyclopedia, this

17:37

faction was headed by French Cardinal

17:39

de Bernier and Cardinal Orsini of

17:41

Naples. whose monarch just so happened

17:43

to come from the same royal

17:45

house as France and for good

17:47

measure, Spain. Outside

17:49

the conclave, the ambassadors of Spain and

17:51

France were applying some serious pressure

17:53

of their own, threatening to blockade Rome

17:56

and encourage popular uprisings to get

17:58

their way. With

18:00

Catholic monarchs like these, who

18:02

needs Protestants? The

18:04

Cardinals supporting the royal factions were

18:06

able to punch above their weights

18:08

because of a then common practice

18:10

called the Use Exclusive A. a

18:13

royal veto power which wasn't formally

18:15

recognized by the Church, but

18:17

which cardinals needed to keep in mind if they

18:19

didn't want to face a split in the Church. Basically,

18:23

if they picked the wrong guy, these

18:25

powerful Catholic Empires, and likely

18:27

their allies, could well

18:29

refuse to acknowledge the new Pope, giving

18:32

the Catholic Church a lot of

18:34

headaches and potentially schisms and antipopes, that

18:36

sort of thing. Plus,

18:38

it wouldn't be a hurdle for Cardinals

18:40

who voted against the wishes of their monarchs

18:42

to face punishments when they came back

18:44

home, or as a consequence of an invasion

18:47

of the Papal States themselves, if it

18:49

came to that. In

18:51

short, to quote Belgian

18:53

Catholic historian Joseph Wilhelm, came

19:07

from a personal visit by the

19:09

Holy Roman Emperor himself. Joseph

19:12

II showed up in Rome

19:14

on March 14th, traveling as his

19:16

alter ego, Count Falkenstein.

19:20

Literally no one was fooled, not

19:22

least because he was accompanied by

19:24

his brother, the Grand Duke of

19:26

Tuscany, who was decidedly not traveling

19:28

incognito, having formally announced himself

19:30

to the Sacred College. Also

19:32

because Count Falkenstein was simply

19:35

one of Emperor Joseph's other titles.

19:37

He wasn't even pretending to be someone else. He

19:40

was pretending to be himself under

19:42

an alias. Emperor

19:44

Joseph, oh, sorry, Count

19:46

Falkenstein, was allowed into the conclave

19:49

and was shown all around the

19:51

Sistine Chapel. Here are

19:53

the ballots, oh yes, by all means,

19:55

chat with whichever cardinal you like, all

19:57

very cordially you understand. Meanwhile,

19:59

the French ambassador was playing

20:02

bad cop. telling Cardinal de Bernier

20:04

to remind defense sending Cardinal, if

20:06

I have done him good, I can also

20:09

do him harm. The

20:11

Catholic Encyclopedia omits any mention of

20:13

Emperor Joseph's presence at the Conclave,

20:15

possibly because its authors were the

20:17

only people in the universe to

20:19

buy the whole Count Falkenstein thing,

20:21

possibly because it would be embarrassing

20:24

for the church to document this

20:26

very direct intervention into the succession

20:28

of popes, possibly for some other

20:30

reason. I don't know, I'm not a mind

20:32

reader. Sticking

20:34

to matters of historical fact, in

20:36

the end, on May 19, the

20:38

conclave produced a new pope, one

20:41

who the Catholic monarchs were apparently

20:43

satisfied with do as instructed as

20:45

they let the election conclude without

20:47

further intervention. And

20:49

so, Clement XIII was

20:51

succeeded by the imaginatively

20:53

named Clement XIV, who

20:55

would indeed, after another significant

20:57

period of stalling and pushback,

21:00

finally go on to suppress

21:02

the Jesuit order globally. saying, the

21:05

name of the company shall

21:07

be, and is, forever extinguished and

21:09

suppressed. Which is

21:11

why there are definitely no Jesuits around

21:13

anymore. Okay, that's

21:15

a lie. Pope Francis is a Jesuit

21:17

who has so far named eight Jesuit

21:19

cardinals, but that's getting ahead of ourselves.

21:22

On a brief personal note while

21:24

my outro music plays, I'd like

21:26

to thank Thomas for reaching out and asking

21:28

if there was anything noteworthy going on in

21:31

my world in 1769. I

21:33

honestly wasn't even sure if it was a

21:35

conclave year when I started looking into it. Imagine

21:37

my surprise when it turned out to be

21:39

such a memorable one. So

21:41

thanks, Thomas. And thank you all

21:43

for listening. God bless you all. Huge

21:51

thanks to Fry, Brie and

21:54

Greg for telling us all

21:56

about the Pope of 1769.

21:59

As usual, if you'd like to

22:01

listen to Pontifax, Popular History or

22:03

Cardinal Numbers, you can find links

22:05

to all those podcasts in the

22:08

show notes. Next

22:10

time will be the last

22:12

in our tour around the world.

22:14

We will be going to

22:16

Sweden with a flat pack history

22:18

of Sweden and To cap

22:20

it all off, we will

22:22

hear about the mother

22:24

country, Britain, with

22:26

prime factors. Manifest

22:50

your best mascara today. Shop Maybelline

22:52

New York and discover your last destiny.

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Shop now at Walmart. Hey

22:56

everyone, this is Cori and Carly, the hosts

22:58

of the Surviving Sister Wives podcast. Sister

23:00

Wives returns at last, and while the

23:02

Browns have gone their own separate ways,

23:05

that doesn't mean they're done with each

23:07

other. Mary and Janelle form an unlikely

23:09

alliance. Christine is off living in newly

23:11

married bliss, and Cody and Robin are

23:13

left wondering, can they be happy in

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a monogamous relationship? And after all the

23:17

joy and drama, they hit the hot

23:19

seat and answer the questions we've been

23:22

begging to know. Sister Wives all new

23:24

Sunday at 10 on TLC. I

23:32

feel like people forget that you

23:34

can truly order anything, especially living in

23:36

New York City. It's why I

23:38

love it. You can get Chinese food

23:40

at any time of night, but

23:42

it's not just for food. I order

23:44

from CVS all the time. I'm

23:46

always ordering from the grocery store. If

23:48

a friend stops over, I have

23:50

to order champagne. I also

23:52

have this thing that whenever I

23:54

travel, if I'm ever in a

23:56

hotel room, I never feel like

23:58

I'm missing something because I'll just

24:00

Uber Eats it. The amount times

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I've had to Uber Eats items

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like hairspray, deodorant, name it I've

24:07

ordered it on Uber Eats, can

24:09

get grocery alcohol everyday essentials in

24:11

addition to restaurants and food you

24:13

love so in other words get

24:15

almost anything with Uber Eats order

24:17

now for alcohol you must be

24:19

legal drinking age please enjoy availability

24:23

varies by region See

24:25

for details