0:04

I'm Sean Cheatham the Chief Relationship Officer

0:06

at Hayes and welcome to How

0:08

Did You Get That Job? A

0:11

podcast which explores the secrets behind

0:13

career success in STEM. In today's

0:15

episode I meet Beatrice Baroso who

0:18

is based in Portugal and an

0:20

investment platform Go Parry. Beatrice has

0:22

worked at that organization for several

0:24

years where she worked her way

0:27

up from developer to Chief Technology

0:29

Officer. She joins me to tell

0:31

her story and share her insights

0:34

into building a successful

0:36

career in tech. I hope

0:38

you enjoy. Let's start with,

0:40

why don't you tell her

0:42

audience a little bit about

0:44

your education, your early career, you

0:46

know, kind of how it all

0:49

started. Yeah, absolutely. So

0:51

my education wasn't the

0:53

most common one. It was, it's

0:55

a little bit... different.

0:58

So I actually started

1:00

by studying in university,

1:03

studying biology

1:06

in university, realized it

1:08

wasn't really for

1:11

me. And then I decided

1:13

to do a very old

1:15

dream, and I went to

1:17

London to do a bachelor

1:20

in theater and performance

1:22

practice. And then I returned

1:25

to Portugal and I worked

1:27

for a bit, but I

1:30

was still a little bit

1:32

unhappy about that whole market

1:34

and how things were. And

1:37

then I did not really

1:39

know what I wanted to

1:41

do. And I decided to

1:43

do a skills test to know,

1:45

okay, let's see what I'm

1:47

good at and what these

1:50

tests shows. And at the

1:52

time... The test showed

1:54

that one very obvious

1:56

career choice for me was

1:58

being a... and I had kind

2:01

of a preconceived idea of

2:03

what he meant to be

2:05

a developer, and I was very

2:08

scared of not being in

2:10

a creative role, being locked

2:12

in an office and alone

2:14

and not, again, working a

2:16

collaborative way. But I started

2:19

to get curious, and I

2:21

decided to do some

2:23

workshops here and there to

2:25

see what it actually meant

2:27

to be. a developer. And

2:29

after doing his workshops, I

2:31

felt, oh, okay, actually, this

2:34

is not at all what I

2:36

thought it was. It's actually the

2:38

complete opposite. Yes, I work

2:40

with a computer most of

2:42

the time, but this is

2:44

actually really creative. You have

2:47

a lot of responsibility and

2:49

really collaboratively. And then I

2:51

decided at the time to

2:53

do, I wanted to get...

2:55

my hands-on at the work

2:58

as much as possible, and

3:00

I decided to do a

3:02

coding boot camp called Louvagon.

3:05

So that's how I got

3:07

into this world. Yeah, interesting.

3:09

From theater to tech.

3:11

It's kind of a

3:13

big leap. So yeah, I've

3:16

heard that. I'm sure. I'm sure.

3:18

Tell me about the boot camp.

3:20

I mean, what appeal to you

3:22

going that route as opposed to

3:25

maybe going back to school and

3:27

doing the educational route? Yeah.

3:29

So I obviously at the

3:31

time consider going back to

3:33

school. I try to gather

3:36

as much feedback from other

3:38

people as possible. And at

3:40

the time, at least the

3:42

options for me, were doing

3:44

another bachelor again. And it

3:47

was going to be very

3:49

theoretical. And some people gave

3:51

me feedback. Yeah, you learned

3:53

a lot of the basics. But

3:55

sometimes you take also a

3:58

long time to actually do. big

4:00

projects start to get your

4:02

hands in cold actually. And

4:05

as well, universities sometimes don't

4:07

keep up with the changes.

4:09

So we're living a world

4:11

where like tech updates all

4:14

the time and you have

4:16

to keep updating. So I

4:18

consider going to their routes,

4:20

but then I saw a

4:23

wood camp. I obviously saw

4:25

the syllabus and everything, and

4:27

it just really appealed to

4:30

me because obviously they had

4:32

the theory part. You can't

4:34

escape the theory aspect of

4:36

it, but it was very

4:39

much hands-on. It taught you,

4:41

like, from the start, how

4:43

to work with other people,

4:46

like you. And to be

4:48

honest, it was the best

4:50

teaching method I ever experienced,

4:52

because it was a... You

4:55

had your theory in the

4:57

morning, and then you had

4:59

challenges throughout the day. You

5:02

always worked with a buddy,

5:04

not that both of you

5:06

were coding the same thing.

5:08

You worked with a buddy,

5:11

everyone in their own laptop,

5:13

but you couldn't move on

5:15

if your buddy hadn't moved

5:17

on, and you had to

5:20

help him or her, try

5:22

and surpass that challenge. And

5:24

then I... Maybe I was

5:27

like in that sense, but

5:29

I was in a class

5:31

where everyone was really ambitious

5:33

and everyone wanted to do

5:36

really well. So we kind

5:38

of all pushed each other

5:40

into finishing even the optional

5:43

challenges, even everything. And it

5:45

was great. And in terms

5:47

of the boot camp, I

5:49

think it teaches you how

5:52

to go, obviously. I don't,

5:54

I think more than that,

5:56

it teaches you. that you

5:58

need to know how to

6:01

research why you need to

6:03

do the job. And that's

6:05

the most valuable bless. and

6:08

I guess from the boot

6:10

camp more than because when

6:12

someone finishes a boot camp

6:14

they probably won't be the

6:17

same developer as someone that

6:19

came from Unity that has

6:21

all this basic knowledge of

6:24

everything. You won't have that

6:26

experience but it teaches you

6:28

how to look for it

6:30

like we live in a

6:33

world where everything is online.

6:35

You just need to know

6:37

where to search. And I

6:39

think it was a really

6:42

valuable. learning experience in that

6:44

sense. Sure. Well, so obviously

6:46

you're at go parity. That

6:49

was your first job. You

6:51

started out as a software

6:53

developer. I mean, so tell

6:55

me, how did you get

6:58

that job? Yeah. So at

7:00

the time, basically I left

7:02

the boot camp and as

7:05

everyone, I did not feel

7:07

like I was ready to

7:09

start the job because I

7:11

wanted to learn more. But

7:14

I decided, OK, I'm going

7:16

to keep on learning, and

7:18

I'm going to do interviews,

7:21

because my expectation is already,

7:23

maybe I'm not ready, but

7:25

this is kind of like

7:27

a practice exam. So I

7:30

did loads at the time

7:32

with multiple coding tests. And

7:34

after I've done some, I

7:36

actually saw the job offer

7:39

through my boot camp channels

7:41

from Go Parity, that they

7:43

were looking for a junior.

7:46

full-stock developer and I love

7:48

the project it really I

7:50

think it helps when you

7:52

are aligned with the mission

7:55

of your company really does

7:57

help and I decided to

7:59

apply I thought and did

8:02

their coding test and I

8:04

got it in from there

8:06

on being a startup with

8:08

a lot of responsibility a

8:11

lot of different challenges. It

8:13

was like kind of like

8:15

multiple boot camps in the

8:17

job itself. because we, I

8:20

started where the company was

8:22

very small, we were only

8:24

two developers, we obviously now

8:27

have a much bigger team,

8:29

but it was a lot

8:31

of, as we scaled, as

8:33

we grew more users, the

8:36

challenges kept changing, and yeah,

8:38

you keep on learning, you

8:40

keep on, there's never a

8:43

dull moment. Sure, sure. So

8:45

you start as a developer.

8:47

So, in pretty rapid form.

8:49

So, I mean, what's been

8:52

the biggest challenge for you

8:54

going from that path, developer

8:56

to CTO? I think the

8:59

biggest challenging challenge is, well,

9:01

this is a very standard

9:03

answer, but managed a lot

9:05

of different people. It's not

9:08

easy. different people require different

9:10

styles of management and you

9:12

have to kind of find

9:14

a style of management that

9:17

can please the courts generally

9:19

that everyone because you want

9:21

all your team to feel

9:24

united and and the biggest

9:26

challenge as well as being

9:28

a go-perity being a startup

9:30

and and it's a very

9:33

fast-paced environment how to pass

9:35

the challenges that we have

9:37

to my team without overwhelming

9:40

them. So I have to

9:42

be the barrier between, okay,

9:44

this is the plan, but

9:46

we got this. Let's take

9:49

this MVP by MVP onwards.

9:51

And if you ever have

9:53

any problem, then... Talk to

9:55

me, like let me help,

9:58

let me be the bridge

10:00

between what we need to

10:02

do, the fast-based environments, and

10:05

you... how you feel. And

10:07

I think that regarding being

10:09

CTO was a big challenge.

10:11

And as well, I think

10:14

as well, it was a

10:16

challenge hiring people sometimes. And

10:18

I think that hiring people

10:21

aligned with a mission is

10:23

really important. people might not

10:25

have, like, and they might

10:27

not be the complete expert

10:30

in that thing that you

10:32

want, but if they want,

10:34

if they want to be

10:37

proactive, if they feel aligned

10:39

with a mission and they

10:41

want to help the company

10:43

grow, I think nine times

10:46

out of ten people will

10:48

get there because they want

10:50

to learn and they want

10:52

to contribute, because they feel

10:55

the responsibility. So I think

10:57

as well that has been

10:59

a challenge because sometimes sometimes...

11:02

It's easy other times, it's

11:04

not as easy. Sure. And

11:06

when you say challenge of

11:08

hiring people, is it challenging

11:11

of hiring people, hiring the

11:13

right people, or is it

11:15

a challenge of just attracting

11:18

people to come work for

11:20

the organization? No, I think

11:22

it's hiring the right people.

11:24

Sure. I think more in

11:27

that sense. Yeah, totally understand.

11:29

Now, obviously, you've been the

11:31

CTO now. I mean... When

11:33

did you, well, was there

11:36

a moment where you felt

11:38

like, hey, I got this,

11:40

I'm doing a good job,

11:43

I know what I'm doing?

11:45

I think, yes, I know,

11:47

I know, I know when

11:49

I saw like, I did

11:52

a good job, it was

11:54

basically, I think, I think

11:56

the theater degree kind of

11:59

helped me with that because

12:01

I... it felt... in the

12:03

beginning, no, but as time

12:05

came by, it felt easier

12:08

to communicate with a non-technical

12:10

stakeholder. So communicate in a

12:12

way that, I know this

12:15

is very technical, what we

12:17

do, but communicate in a

12:19

way that everyone understands. And

12:21

everyone understood me, and they

12:24

understood my department's pains and

12:26

wins as well. So that

12:28

was a moment where I

12:30

felt, okay, we're doing, I'm

12:33

doing some things well. And

12:35

as well, regarding my team,

12:37

I felt like, I felt

12:40

like I was doing things

12:42

well when we created an

12:44

environment together where we not

12:46

only celebrated the wins, but

12:49

we discussed the failures openly

12:51

and how could everyone helped,

12:53

well, improve and not commit

12:56

the same error again. And

12:59

I think those were two

13:01

moments maybe when I felt

13:03

like, yeah, things are going

13:05

well. Just a quick word

13:07

for our audience. If you're

13:09

looking for more insights into

13:12

a tech career, check out

13:14

the link and the show

13:16

notes. It'll take you to

13:18

the Hayes blog where you

13:20

can find guidance on the

13:22

skills needed to be successful,

13:25

as well as some job

13:27

secret advice. In BHC, you

13:29

actually mentioned that collaboration and

13:31

creativity are very important. to

13:33

you as a leader. So

13:35

tell me a little bit

13:37

more about that. Yeah, I

13:40

think I think in order

13:42

for a team to succeed,

13:44

they need to be creative

13:46

and collaborate with each other.

13:48

And I learned in, for

13:50

example, in theater, right, when

13:53

you go to a play,

13:55

if someone misses up their

13:57

lines, the typical saying is

13:59

the must go on. And

14:01

I don't see why things

14:03

wouldn't be the same as

14:06

a team. So I think

14:08

when people collaborate and are

14:10

creative, things just tend to

14:12

flow way more naturally. And

14:14

for example, in theater we're

14:16

taught to take risks, take

14:18

risks and try new things,

14:21

which I think is also

14:23

true in tech. The true

14:25

innovation I think comes from

14:27

being comfortable, potentially failing. And

14:29

as a leader, you have

14:31

to ensure that your team

14:34

knows that they have the

14:36

freedom to take risks and

14:38

that you're there to back

14:40

them up. incredible advice. When

14:42

we first met you actually

14:44

talked about the relationship between

14:46

your theater experience and the

14:49

development side and being the

14:51

leader, but you also talked

14:53

about some theater exercises that

14:55

you do to help your

14:57

team feel comfortable or get

14:59

them loosened up for the

15:02

day. Why don't you tell

15:04

our audience a little bit

15:06

about that? Yeah, it became

15:08

kind of a tradition in

15:10

our... all hands meeting when

15:12

they're in person. That we

15:15

always, to kind of make

15:17

us feel present in the

15:19

room and wake us up,

15:21

we always started the day

15:23

with a small physical theater

15:25

exercise. And you just, people

15:27

just like lighten up and

15:30

it's nothing that makes people

15:32

being on a stage or

15:34

being scared of being scared

15:36

of being on a stage

15:38

or being scared of being

15:40

on a stage or being

15:43

on a stage or being

15:45

on a stage or being

15:47

on a stage or being

15:49

on a stage or being

15:51

on a stage or being

15:53

on a stage or being

15:55

on a stage or being

15:58

on a stage everyone is

16:00

looking at them because we

16:02

all do them do it

16:04

together and then in these

16:06

all hands meetings as well

16:08

instead of We do coffee

16:11

breaks, as well, but we

16:13

do shorter coffee breaks and

16:15

we do a theater exercise

16:17

sometimes to come back into

16:19

the room and wake us

16:21

up again and it's like,

16:24

okay, now we're ready, let's

16:26

go again. And it really

16:28

helps, I think people, and

16:30

people are kind of, they

16:32

want to do it because

16:34

it's not a frightening moment,

16:36

everyone's doing something silly together.

16:39

And it just breaks the

16:41

ice completely. and makes us

16:43

work as a group I

16:45

guess. Yeah no I love

16:47

it. I love it. So

16:49

you know obviously that it's

16:52

got to be from a

16:54

team standpoint really attractive for

16:56

your people but I'm curious

16:58

when when you're talking and

17:00

seeking out new talent I

17:02

mean how do you attract

17:04

young people to come work

17:07

for you? Well I think

17:09

when you When you, to

17:11

work for go parity, especially

17:13

when you, when you build

17:15

something that you are actually

17:17

very passionate about, it kind

17:20

of helps people sense this

17:22

and they know the product

17:24

and they're familiar with the

17:26

product and they feel aligned

17:28

to the product, generally to

17:30

convince young people to go

17:33

into tech. I think the...

17:35

Basically, the younger, the better

17:37

and show them that it's

17:39

a very creative role. For

17:41

example, in my case, I

17:43

didn't have a lot of,

17:45

I always loved tech, always

17:48

had a lot of gadgets.

17:50

I was always good with

17:52

computers, but I really thought

17:54

that being a developer was

17:56

very much being in your...

17:58

own worlds, I don't know,

18:01

in a dark space and

18:03

it was the complete opposite.

18:05

And if we show young

18:07

people that is actually a...

18:09

very creative world and you

18:11

have a lot of responsibility

18:13

but you also get the

18:16

opportunity to learn a lot

18:18

of different skills in a

18:20

in well if you work

18:22

in a fast-paced environment it

18:24

really talks to them and

18:26

helps them move on to

18:29

tech yeah and I think

18:31

and I think basically if

18:33

we give young people the

18:35

chance to touch even if

18:37

it's a silly game, it's

18:39

a chance to touch code

18:42

and with a silly game

18:44

or to program a silly

18:46

game or seeing their code

18:48

live for the first time.

18:50

I think that's exciting. I

18:52

remember when I called it

18:54

my first website and was

18:57

I called, this is actually

18:59

public for the world. And

19:01

that is an exciting feeling

19:03

where, oh, actually, and this

19:05

is a lot of power

19:07

and responsibility. Cool, like creative,

19:10

I can do a lot

19:12

of different things. And I

19:14

think as well, its companies

19:16

start to keep doing innovative

19:18

things, young people will naturally

19:20

fall into tech. I think

19:22

it will happen. Natural. Yeah,

19:25

it sounds like really, your

19:27

background in theater has really

19:29

contributed to your success in

19:31

tech, because again, as you

19:33

say it's a creative. space

19:35

just like the theater is.

19:38

So tell me, I mean,

19:40

one of the themes on

19:42

this show is talking about

19:44

women and technology and some

19:46

of the challenges that they

19:48

face. I mean, tell me

19:51

your experience about being a

19:53

woman in tech. Of course,

19:55

obviously is a very much

19:57

male dominated world. I feel

19:59

like the trend is changing.

20:01

and And I would say

20:03

that in my experience, in

20:06

my reality, as well, because

20:08

more and more we see

20:10

as well female founders, entrepreneurs,

20:12

and their helps, obviously you

20:14

see how I can also

20:16

get there. And I would

20:19

say that in my experience,

20:21

in my reality, Generally, and

20:23

I'm speaking very general in

20:25

broader terms, it doesn't apply

20:27

to specifics, women probably tend

20:29

to feel a little bit

20:31

more imposter syndrome than men.

20:34

I don't know why, and

20:36

I feel sometimes they're afraid

20:38

to take more risks because

20:40

of it, and I feel

20:42

like this is something that

20:44

it can be changed. I

20:47

feel... will still keep the

20:49

imposter's syndrome. It's always there,

20:51

even for men and women

20:53

for everyone. But as long

20:55

as it's not a voice

20:57

that will let it occupy

20:59

our head and we do

21:02

things either way, it's just,

21:04

it's actually, it can help

21:06

us be better because, okay,

21:08

we're gonna take a risk,

21:10

we know that we have

21:12

all those reasons, why not

21:15

to take the risk, but

21:17

so let's take this risk

21:19

as with the maximum caution

21:21

that we can. and it

21:23

makes us better professionals for

21:25

it, because when we take

21:28

risks, we know exactly what

21:30

can happen, and we get

21:32

prepared in case that happens.

21:34

So as long as imposter

21:36

syndrome doesn't stop us from

21:38

doing whatever is that we

21:40

need to do, I think

21:43

we should use it as

21:45

a weapon, because it will

21:47

make us better professionals. Yeah,

21:49

that's interesting because almost every

21:51

woman that we've had on

21:53

the show said the same

21:56

thing about the imposter syndrome

21:58

So you definitely are validating

22:00

what before. So what advice

22:02

would you give to someone

22:04

like yourself? You didn't come

22:06

from a formal education in

22:08

technology but is interested in

22:11

starting a career in tech.

22:13

What would you say to

22:15

them? I've already for example

22:17

hired some people's home boot

22:19

camp center and I've given

22:21

them this advice. I think

22:24

you really you really want

22:26

it. You kind of have

22:28

this voice in your hand

22:30

that is, you really want

22:32

it, because you won't know

22:34

a lot of stuff, and

22:37

that's okay, especially if you're

22:39

hired as a junior. But

22:41

as long as you really

22:43

want it, you kind of

22:45

have this voice in your

22:47

hand that it tells you,

22:49

no, I'm not going to

22:52

give up. And I know

22:54

that I know that I

22:56

don't know this, but I'm

22:58

going to research. I'm going

23:00

to learn. I'm going to

23:02

try. I'm going to try

23:05

outside. For example, I'm really

23:07

interested in this. I'm going

23:09

to try in my own

23:11

time. And then I want

23:13

to use this in my

23:15

work. And I want to

23:17

use it as a solution

23:20

for something. And so I

23:22

think if you do not

23:24

come from a traditional background.

23:26

you really need to have

23:28

this kind of hunger for

23:30

it that you really want

23:33

it. And then I would

23:35

say as well that in

23:37

a, I like to think

23:39

that as well in a

23:41

start, the ecosystem is a

23:43

good place to start, at

23:46

least, because you will get

23:48

to touch in a lot

23:50

of different things, pass through.

23:52

in enormous challenges where maybe

23:54

in a more, in a

23:56

bigger company, everything is. already

23:58

divided into departments and you

24:01

won't get to touch through

24:03

all the things. So I

24:05

think for people as well

24:07

that want to have a

24:09

feel of everything and want

24:11

to have such as many

24:14

different environments as possible, a

24:16

system can also be quite

24:18

good for it. And I

24:20

guess that's what I would

24:22

say. Well, it's work for

24:24

you, for sure. And I

24:26

think it's great advice. So

24:29

listen, Beatrice, I really appreciate

24:31

you being on the show.

24:33

Thank you so much. Really

24:35

enjoyed the conversation. Thank you,

24:37

Sean. That was Beatrice Baroso.

24:39

She's technology officer at Coparity. It

24:42

was really great to hear from

24:44

somebody who has embraced the possibilities

24:46

of what tech can offer. At

24:48

the same time, she brought her

24:50

own values and ideas to the

24:52

table, creating better experiences and opportunities

24:54

for everyone. Join us next time

24:56

when I'll be talking to another

24:58

STEM professional about their career story.

25:00

Make sure you subscribe so you

25:02

don't miss an episode. Until then,

25:04

thank you and goodbye.