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and welcome to the advice line

2:58

on how I built this lab.

3:00

I'm Guy Ross. This is the

3:02

place where we help try to

3:04

solve your business challenges. Each week,

3:06

I'm joined by a legendary founder,

3:09

a former guest on the show

3:11

who will help me try to

3:13

help you. And if you're building

3:15

something and you need advice, give

3:17

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3:19

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3:21

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3:23

Send us a one-minute message that

3:25

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3:27

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3:29

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3:32

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3:34

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3:43

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3:45

at Guy ross.com. And we'll put all

3:48

this info in the podcast in the

3:50

podcast description. All right. Let's get

3:52

to it. Joining me this week is

3:54

Jenny Britton. She's the founder of Jenny's Splendid

3:56

Ice Creams. Jenny, it's great to have you

3:58

back on the show. Hey Guy, it's so,

4:01

so great to be back. You were

4:03

a guest on the show back in

4:05

2018. We did a live show in

4:07

Columbus, Ohio. It was so fun. And

4:10

by the way, guys, if you haven't

4:12

heard that original episode, we will put

4:14

a link in the episode description. You,

4:16

of course, started Jenny's. Your first location

4:19

was in a food hall, and then

4:21

you opened your first scoop shop a

4:23

few years later. And I think most

4:25

people know your ice cream. Cream powder

4:28

jelly donut and brambleberry crisp and Texas

4:30

sheetcake. And my current favorite, I have

4:32

to say, brown butter brittle. That's my

4:34

favorite. Yeah, we have a pint and

4:37

a half. My son eats a pint

4:39

of your ice cream like almost daily.

4:41

It's very, it's just really amazing when

4:43

they're growing how much ice cream they

4:46

eat. Yeah, well, I know that very

4:48

well too. My kids eat a lot

4:50

of ice cream as well. We are

4:52

an ice cream family, of course. But

4:55

yes, that one's my favorite too, and

4:57

the one that I always, always, always,

4:59

always have in my freezer. It's so

5:01

good. Today, your ice creams are sold,

5:03

I think in about 80, at least

5:06

80 scoop shops, across the country, 12,000

5:08

retail locations. You built an incredible business.

5:10

Jenny, before we get to today's call

5:12

today's callers, I want to you a

5:15

couple questions about your story. were in

5:17

college, right? You had this moment when

5:19

you knew you want to make ice

5:21

cream, right, basically for the rest of

5:24

your life. And you dropped out of

5:26

the Ohio State University to start what

5:28

would become jadees, first called scream ice

5:30

cream. Yeah, in 1996 I walked out

5:33

of art class, literally. I mean, yeah,

5:35

you walked out. And so a lot

5:37

of, you know, a lot of collars

5:39

have asked this in the past, which

5:42

is when, like, how do you know

5:44

that it was the right thing to

5:46

do at that that time? It wasn't

5:48

something that I sat and thought, is

5:50

this really right? Is it not right?

5:52

I just knew that I couldn't do

5:54

art anymore. And I had spent my

5:56

entire life in art. My grandmother's an

5:58

art teacher. My mother's an artist. And

6:00

it just wasn't for me anymore. I

6:02

just wanted to be making ice cream

6:04

and I wanted to be serving ice

6:06

cream and I wanted to light people

6:08

up in that way and I didn't

6:10

know at all what I was doing

6:12

and I just thought it was just

6:14

gonna be you know you make ice

6:16

cream you serve it people love it

6:18

and then you know you become Ben

6:20

and Jerry's overnight yeah right and obviously

6:22

that's not true you know that was

6:24

just the beginning yeah I think a

6:26

lot of people assume that brand start

6:28

in you know, coastal cities, LA, New

6:30

York, San Francisco. But you started this

6:32

in Columbus and built a national brand

6:34

really on the sheer force of the

6:36

quality of the product and the branding

6:38

and the look of it. Tell me

6:40

why do you think Columbus turned out

6:42

to be the perfect place where you

6:44

launch the business? Columbus is a perfect

6:46

place and these smaller markets are really

6:48

perfect for a lot of reasons actually.

6:50

I was in Columbus and one of

6:52

the reasons that I wanted to be

6:54

an ice cream maker is because I

6:57

drove by farms every day. You go

6:59

20 minutes outside of downtown and you're

7:01

driving by dairy farms. So I knew

7:03

that we were a dairy state because

7:05

I saw it in front of me.

7:07

So I thought, okay, great, it's awesome

7:09

for ice cream. And we forget that

7:11

a lot of innovation can come from

7:13

the middle of the country, whether it's

7:15

in food, especially in food, where we

7:17

have ag states. But also, when you're

7:19

in a smaller, small to mid-sized city,

7:21

the city gets behind it in a

7:23

different way. You know, you can really

7:25

try things and also fail a lot,

7:27

and people still stick with you. And

7:29

I have noticed that in big cities,

7:31

everybody's trying new things. Everybody's got something

7:33

going on, and it's really hard to

7:35

stand out. And, of course, the cost

7:37

of doing business is lower. Just the

7:39

start-up costs are lower, in a place

7:41

like Columbus versus Brooklyn, Brooklyn, New York.

7:43

you know, rent and paying people and

7:45

all the things that you have to

7:47

do in Brooklyn that would be different

7:49

from Columbus. Yeah. And here we can

7:51

put it all in the ice cream.

7:53

And that's just a huge difference. Yeah.

7:55

Jamie, before we get to our callers,

7:57

you have a new product that you've

7:59

launched. I think it's a completely separate

8:01

company. It is. Yeah. These are energy

8:03

bars or bars, but they're like high

8:05

in fiber, like 13, 14 grams of

8:07

fiber per bar. Tell me about this

8:09

new business that you've launched. Yeah, Flora

8:11

is a fiber company. We actually make

8:13

fiber or pull fiber from produce trimmings.

8:15

So we are located actually inside of

8:17

a 600,000 square foot produce processing company

8:19

that. makes cut produce for all your

8:21

favorite grocers. Like baby carrots or you

8:23

know stuff like that? Mott's apples for

8:25

instance. And so we can take the

8:27

apple cores and then make them into

8:29

a paste which becomes the base of

8:31

our bars. And so we also work

8:33

with watermelon rines. We actually ferment the

8:35

watermelon rines a little bit, which opens

8:37

up cellulose and pectin and prebiotic fiber

8:39

there. We work with honey tube, cantalope,

8:41

rines, mango skins. These are really high

8:43

in fiber. And then 95% of Americans

8:45

are deficient in fiber. And it's the

8:47

cause of many chronic illnesses across America.

8:49

So I don't know, you know, people

8:51

are like, how do you go from

8:54

ice cream to fiber? And to me,

8:56

it's just the same thing. It's about

8:58

making people feel better. I learned after

9:00

I was able to kind of step

9:02

back a little bit from Jenny's over

9:04

the last five years, how important fiber

9:06

is and how absent it is from

9:08

our food system. And we really need

9:10

this to have a healthy microbiome. So

9:12

yeah, so Flora exists to get people

9:14

fiber every day. That's so cool. Congrats

9:16

on that. It's really true. I mean,

9:18

I... I eat so many vegetables and

9:20

I still add cilium husk to my

9:22

morning smoothie. I eat cheese seed pudding

9:24

every day. We don't eat enough fiber.

9:26

And you have to work to do

9:28

it. You have to actually try. It's

9:30

really hard. It's really hard. And also,

9:32

you know, of course, there's this sustainability

9:34

aspect because all of these ingredients were

9:36

going into the landfill, but they are

9:38

really good for you. You should be

9:40

eating them. Yeah, for sure. Well, all

9:42

right. Well, all right. All right. Well,

9:44

all right. All right. All right. Let's

9:46

bring in our first caller. Hello, welcome

9:48

to the advice line. You're on with

9:50

me and Jenny Britton. Welcome. Please tell

9:52

us your name, where you're calling from,

9:54

and just a little bit about your

9:56

business. Hey, guys. Hey Jenny, my name

9:58

is Jesse Koenig, I'm calling in from

10:00

Washington DC. I'm one of the co-founders

10:02

of Jesse and Ben's and what makes

10:04

our fries special is that we don't

10:06

use seed oils or any weird ingredients,

10:08

it's just non-GMO potatoes, healthy fats like

10:10

grass-fed beef tallow or avocado oil and

10:12

salts and seasonings, that's it, just real

10:14

ingredients you can pronounce and none of

10:16

the bad stuff. incredible. I love it.

10:18

Welcome to the show Jesse. Thanks for

10:20

calling in. So these are you these

10:22

are sold frozen in a bag like

10:24

that you would get at the grocery

10:26

store in the freezer aisle. Exactly. Yep.

10:28

They are frozen french fries you'd find

10:30

right in the freezer aisle next to

10:32

some of the big red bags you

10:34

probably recognize from from a long time

10:36

they've been there. And then you take

10:38

them home and you just put them

10:40

on a baking sheet and you bake

10:42

them? Yeah exactly right in the air

10:44

fryer. Air fryers great. People love their

10:46

air fryers. I like to make them

10:49

in the oven too. They're great in

10:51

the oven as well. It's kind of

10:53

like a twice fried Belgian style fry

10:55

you get at a restaurant and we

10:57

do the first fry and you're basically

10:59

doing that finished cooking at home either

11:01

in the air fryer or in the

11:03

oven. I got it cool. Well tell

11:05

me a little bit about how you

11:07

started the business. Our background is actually

11:09

in restaurants and you say are you've

11:11

got you've got a partner that's that

11:13

would be Ben that would be Ben

11:15

exactly I guess the Ben and Jesse

11:17

and Ben's yes we're the guys behind

11:19

the fries I'm one half of the

11:21

equation being Jesse right at night we

11:23

met in college we were friends we

11:25

decided this brilliant idea that we were

11:27

going to get into the food industry

11:29

with no experience jumped right into it

11:31

in DC in 2014 with food with

11:33

food in 2014 with food and farmers

11:35

markets and kind of running around the

11:37

city what kind of food It actually

11:39

started out with gourmet grass-fed beef spiral-cut

11:41

hot dogs of all things. It was

11:43

a very niche, funky thing. Hand-cut fries

11:45

were a huge part of the menu

11:47

from day one. And we eventually pivoted

11:49

the concept a little bit more into

11:51

the burger space and building a better

11:53

fast food concept. We've had our best

11:55

year ever in 2019. We signed our

11:57

first lease getting ready to open. in

11:59

May. And that actually led us to

12:01

this kind of idea for french fries

12:03

because we were trying to solve a

12:05

problem at our restaurant. We were hand-cutting

12:07

fries for our food trucks and farmers

12:09

markets and now this new restaurant and

12:11

we thought we need to survive. We

12:13

don't know what we're going to do.

12:15

What if we could use a frozen

12:17

french try? But since it's always been...

12:19

a core part of our business from

12:21

the earliest days. We couldn't sacrifice the

12:23

quality of our fries. We decided to

12:25

make our own frozen french fries because

12:27

the only one we could find that

12:29

we really worked. And then we had

12:31

these frozen fries and we walked the

12:33

grocery store aisles and we just saw

12:35

that sea of sameness we learned about

12:37

from being long-time listeners of how I

12:39

built this and realized there was a

12:41

real problem that needed solving. Amazing. All

12:43

right, just to clarify though, these are

12:46

sold. In stores, not direct to consumer,

12:48

it's kind of hard, I'm assuming to

12:50

ship these, right? Yeah, we've had people

12:52

all over the country trying to get

12:54

us to ship french fries, which we've

12:56

decided not to do for the time

12:58

being. Dry ice, it's hard. So where

13:00

are they sold? How many shops or

13:02

grocery stores are you in right now?

13:04

So we just launched into retail in

13:06

June of last year. So June 2024,

13:08

so... We've got a lot going on

13:10

this year and we're just trying to

13:12

figure out one step at a time

13:14

of what to do next. All right,

13:16

what's your question for us today? Yes,

13:18

my questions related to just how we

13:20

should focus our marketing efforts. I know

13:22

we're a... you know, small business, we

13:24

don't have the budgets of the big

13:26

guys, and we're getting ready for this

13:28

nationwide launch and sprouts, and we're trying

13:30

to think about, you know, as we

13:32

get into these new places, how should

13:34

we be allocating our resources and our

13:36

time and our budget? On one hand,

13:38

it seems like there's a good case

13:40

to be made to go and find

13:42

the people that are already removing ultra-processed

13:44

foods and seed oils from their diet

13:46

because they kind of get it, they

13:48

can be those early brand evangelists, It

13:50

kind of seems like it could make

13:52

sense to go find people who are

13:54

buying lots of fries and don't even

13:56

know about this problem. And if we

13:58

can... educate them and get them to

14:00

know, hey, these fries not only taste

14:02

better, but they might be better for

14:04

you and your family too. So we're

14:06

just trying to figure out how we

14:08

should, you know, really focus our effort

14:10

when it comes to marketing as we're

14:12

rolling into new places. All right, we'll

14:14

get to your question a moment. I

14:16

want to bring Jenny in. Jenny, you

14:18

may have some answers to this question,

14:20

but you may have questions of your

14:22

own before we get to it. Hi

14:24

Jesse. Hello. Congratulations on your business. Thank

14:26

you. How cool. It's amazing. I feel

14:28

like there's like a problem with like

14:30

french fries right now. You guys identified

14:32

it inside your company where it's like

14:34

you can't actually buy like decent french

14:36

fries, but making them is actually really

14:38

hard too. And if you're feeling it,

14:40

I think the consumer is feeling it

14:43

as well. I would love to know

14:45

where are you manufacturing? How are you

14:47

manufacturing these? So we make all of

14:49

our own french fries ourselves. We actually

14:51

just opened a brand new 6,000 square

14:53

foot facility in Rockville, Maryland. Because we

14:55

are doing grass-fed beef tallow and avocado

14:57

oil, and we think we have a

14:59

very true-to-form process for these hand-cut, Belgian-style

15:01

fries, we don't really think there is

15:03

an option elsewhere to do co-manufacturing that

15:05

part of the process. So we do

15:07

it all. That's actually kind of what

15:09

Ben's specialty is. And what are your,

15:11

I mean, your established businesses, are people

15:13

just sort of super excited about the

15:15

fries? You know, I mean, is that

15:17

something that, I mean, it sounds like

15:19

it. But in addition to your burgers

15:21

and the dogs and everything. Yeah, at

15:23

the restaurant level, I think for us,

15:25

we were able to execute on making

15:27

a fry that tastes as good as

15:29

any frenchra you ever had, but. the

15:31

sort of magic behind the scenes for

15:33

us as operators is that we just

15:35

open up a bag of our Jesse

15:37

and Ben's fries, drop them into the

15:39

fryer and we've got a great french

15:41

fryer right there. And we actually do

15:43

sell fries to other restaurants. It's kind

15:45

of a sneaky wholesale business that we

15:47

have that helps us grow our business

15:49

and run our manufacturing plant profitably. Hopefully

15:51

that's the idea at least. Easier said

15:53

than done. Totally. It's really interesting. Can

15:55

you give me a sense of what

15:57

your what your what your sales are

15:59

what your sales are right now with

16:01

the fries are right now with the

16:03

fries? Yeah, so in our first 12

16:05

months in business we've done into seven

16:07

figures in sales. Great. So it's been

16:09

going pretty quick. Incredible. Let me let

16:11

me try to get a crack at

16:13

your question because I think there's a

16:15

parallel with what Jenny's done and you

16:17

mentioned this is an idea of like

16:19

a higher quality version of something that

16:21

you were used to, right? There's a

16:23

lot of awareness on social media about.

16:25

about seed oils and people are getting

16:27

sort of weirded out about about using

16:29

them. And there's still some disputes about

16:31

whether that's, you know, accurate or not.

16:33

But I think that most of the

16:35

people that you want to appeal to

16:37

aren't really going to care about that

16:40

as much yet. I still think it's

16:42

new. I think most of the people

16:44

are just going to like your product

16:46

because it's delicious. It's a higher quality

16:48

product and you can taste it. Do

16:50

you do you think there's something to

16:52

that, Jenny or do you disagree? I

16:54

really do. If you go super deep

16:56

on the seed oil thing, that science

16:58

has not reached consensus yet. So it

17:00

can be fad-like right now. And so

17:02

you don't want to just be known

17:04

for that. People who follow that will

17:06

find you. They'll see Talo, they'll see

17:08

avocado, and they'll find you. They'll see

17:10

avocado oil, and they'll find you. But

17:12

I will say, there is another component

17:14

or an element that you're in grocery.

17:16

their customers, it's the buyer. And what

17:18

the buyer wants to see is, yeah,

17:20

sure, you can split some votes, that's

17:22

okay. Are you bringing new people to

17:24

the category? And so the new people

17:26

that you're bringing, sure, it's some of

17:28

the seed oil people, it's some of

17:30

the health conscious people, it's also just

17:32

people who love fries, who just don't

17:34

think you can get good fries in

17:36

the grocery store, and you can't make

17:38

them at home. What are you guys

17:40

doing for sampling? I mean, do you

17:42

have air fryers set up in some

17:44

of these grocery stores and just handing

17:46

out hot fresh fry while you're shopping

17:48

for groceries? I mean, my God. We've

17:50

done it a couple of times. We

17:52

actually just were joking. serious but joking

17:54

about this idea of like what if

17:56

we just got a giant food truck

17:58

and drove it down the East Coast

18:00

and had a French ride tour bus

18:02

and just did cool activations but I

18:04

think tasting definitely is believing we've had

18:06

a lot of success just finding these

18:08

really influential people online and on social

18:10

media ceding out the product having them

18:12

give honest reviews and giving their experience

18:14

and that's been really effective but I

18:16

think you're right we When you put

18:18

an air fryer out and you give

18:20

somebody a couple french fries in the

18:22

grocery store, it's very hard to keep

18:24

them on the shelf. We're selling out

18:26

stores that way, definitely. Yeah, and you

18:28

go right to your customer in the

18:30

grocery store. I mean, it's a really

18:32

great way. Sir Kensington's actually did a

18:34

really cool thing. You should partner with

18:37

it. Sir Kensington's actually did a really

18:39

cool thing. You should partner with them.

18:41

You should partner with my whole foods.

18:43

Yeah, I mean, you're like, as Jenny

18:45

said, like, when people would ask her

18:47

to describe the flavor, she would say,

18:49

we packed more, as much chocolate into

18:51

this pine as we could possibly get.

18:53

When you have people, trained people, who

18:55

are sampling Jesse and Ben's at Sproughts

18:57

or wherever it is, then they can

18:59

say, and it's made with avocado oil

19:01

or beef tallow, and, you know, whatever

19:03

the pitch is, I mean, here you

19:05

know, it's gonna change your mind about

19:07

oven fries and about oven fries and

19:09

fries and fries and it's available in

19:11

the freezer fries and it's available in

19:13

the freezer. I love that. That's a

19:15

pretty good pitch too, guy. We have

19:17

to hire you to do some samples.

19:19

I love selling other people's products for

19:21

them. I think it's so great. And

19:23

in fact, it's a good thing to

19:25

do to listen to how other people

19:27

talk about your products, because you'll talk

19:29

about it one way, but listen to

19:31

what other people are saying. And then

19:33

also when you're thinking about your pitch,

19:35

to your customers, think about what do

19:37

I want them to say to say

19:39

to other people? and talk to them

19:41

the exact way because what you say

19:43

they often sort of say in your

19:45

words to somebody else. And that word

19:47

of mouth is going to be everything.

19:49

I think that's great advice. I really

19:51

appreciate the help. Jesse Koenig, the brand

19:53

is called Jesse and Ben's. Thanks for

19:55

calling in. Good luck, thanks so much.

19:57

You really appreciate you guys. Great having

19:59

you. Yeah, I

20:01

love french fries and Jenny, you

20:03

know, french fries and a great

20:06

steak for me is like one

20:08

of the greatest moments ever. Oh,

20:10

same. I'm really excited about this,

20:12

this tallow and sea salt though

20:14

and I agree, like I know

20:16

a lot of people are talking

20:19

about tallow, but you know, like

20:21

we're just going back to like

20:23

some first principles of like how

20:25

do you make great french fries?

20:27

I know I'm in the Midwest,

20:29

so I'm hoping that my stores

20:31

carry them. Okay, next step after

20:34

the break, another caller with another

20:36

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20:38

we're answering your questions right here

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23:01

shave, welcome to the

23:03

club. Welcome back to

23:05

the advice line on

23:07

how I built this lab.

23:10

I'm Guy Ross and my

23:12

guest today is Jenny's

23:14

Splendid Ice Creams, founder

23:17

Jenny Britain. Jenny, why

23:19

don't we? Let's take

23:22

her another call. Okay.

23:24

Welcome to the Vice Line. You're on

23:27

with Jenny Britton. Please tell us your

23:29

name, where you're calling from, and

23:31

just a little bit about your

23:33

business. Hello, nice to meet you,

23:35

Brooke. My name's Casey White, and

23:38

I'm calling from Boston, Massachusetts, and

23:40

I'm the co-founder of Jaju Perogi.

23:42

And we specialize in high-quality Polish

23:45

jumplings at scale, using our grandfathers

23:47

recipes to grocery stores throughout the

23:49

country. Amazing. Well, thanks for

23:51

calling in, Casey. And so, parogi's

23:54

dumplings, these are, I think most

23:56

people know they are, stuffed with

23:58

potatoes and cheese. and I think

24:00

you can get it with meat. You

24:03

can put anything you want and it's

24:05

inside pasta, right? So we make a

24:07

bunch of different flavors from potato and

24:09

cheese, colbasa, which is a pork sausage

24:12

and red belt pepper, a sweet potato,

24:14

caramelized onion, a Halipino cheddar, can name

24:16

it, we can put it inside. Yeah.

24:18

So this sold frozen in bags in

24:21

the grocery store and like you just

24:23

heat it up in the oven. Yeah,

24:25

so we boil them and freeze them,

24:27

so you can air fry them, you

24:30

can bake them. My favorite is sautting

24:32

that with some butter oil for about

24:34

8 to 10 minutes on the stove,

24:37

you could even microwave them if you

24:39

wanted to, so just reheating them. And

24:41

tell me how you started the business,

24:43

tell me the story behind it. Yes,

24:46

so my sister and I grew up

24:48

on our grandfathers, Progi, so Jaju is

24:50

our brand name, and that's the phonetic

24:52

spelling of Grandfather of Grandfather in Polish.

24:55

So we grew up on his parogi

24:57

and always had them, like in the

24:59

freezer, like our craft mac and cheese,

25:01

like that was our snack, our go-to

25:04

thing. All of our friends would ask,

25:06

hey, where did you get those? Like

25:08

I can't find handmade dumplings anywhere. And

25:10

we were like, really? Because we always

25:13

had them. So we just assumed that

25:15

everybody had them. Yeah. Yeah, so. We

25:17

actually drove back to our grandfather's store

25:19

and found his handwritten recipes in the

25:22

back of the store and just started

25:24

tinkering on our kitchen table and kind

25:26

of like that small business story right

25:28

started going to pop-ups, farmers markets. We

25:31

started doing this around the time and

25:33

breweries were like really hot and new

25:35

so parogee and beers like the perfect

25:37

combination so we would hop around and

25:40

do that and quickly realized that yeah

25:42

people could not find parogi anywhere. People

25:44

were like driving from neighboring states to

25:46

come to our events. It was crazy,

25:49

but it was awesome. So we kept

25:51

going with it once we saw that

25:53

demand. Wow, that's super cool. All right.

25:55

So you're not sold direct to consumer

25:58

or you are? We do sell. direct-to-consumer

26:00

on our website. We don't do, it's

26:02

on a large part of our business

26:04

because as you said before, you know,

26:07

frozen is pretty expensive. It's challenging, yes.

26:09

Yep, not easy to do, but we

26:11

do offer it, but most of our

26:13

business is to grocery, so now we're

26:16

in about 2,700 stores throughout the country,

26:18

Whole Foods, sprouts, a lot of stores

26:20

in the natural channel, and then we

26:22

still do... We do have a big

26:25

event part of our business that we

26:27

still operate mostly in the summer months,

26:29

like music festivals and stuff like that.

26:31

Right. And give us a sense of

26:34

your sales right now. So last year

26:36

we finished at 2.5 million. That's great.

26:38

This year we should do almost four

26:41

because we're actually getting into Costco, which

26:43

is exciting. Oh, wow. All right. So

26:45

before we dive in with more questions.

26:47

What's your question for us? So my

26:50

question is, how does a company sustainably

26:52

grow in the CPG industry without raising

26:54

a ton of capital or is raising

26:57

a ton of capital just part of

26:59

the equation? All right, big question and

27:01

Jenny, I know you've got a lot

27:04

of thoughts on that. Jenny, questions for

27:06

Casey? Hey Casey, first of all, congratulations.

27:08

What an accomplishment, I mean, to have...

27:10

2,700 plus stores is, I mean, I

27:13

know from my experience at Jenny's, this

27:15

is a slog that is not easy

27:17

to do, and I just applaud you.

27:20

Thank you. I just, I guess, when

27:22

I think of bringing capital, I think

27:24

the first thing I think of is

27:26

that entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs for a reason,

27:29

and that's because we like to do

27:31

things our way and differently, and we

27:33

like to explore and discover and all

27:36

of that, and when you bring in

27:38

outside capital, you lose all of that,

27:40

you lose all of that. like let

27:43

go of that kind of control. Yeah

27:45

that's the hard part right because it's

27:47

like we're a very small lean team

27:49

still we've been very methodical and our

27:52

growth like we've been around for nine

27:54

years and so a lot of people

27:56

right they say oh like nine years

27:59

like maybe you should be in 10,000

28:01

store. or whatever, and we say, like,

28:03

well, we've just methodically grown because we

28:05

didn't want to take, you know, outside

28:08

investment and stuff like that. And so

28:10

it's kind of just like that point,

28:12

like, okay, if we want to get

28:15

into the club stores, the bigger guys,

28:17

like, we need some upfront money to

28:19

do packaging, like, just all of the

28:22

logistics and all of that piece of

28:24

it. And so that's what I struggle

28:26

with, because it's like, right. where do

28:28

I get the money from to do

28:31

so? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and that's

28:33

that's always that sort of catch 22

28:35

or whatever, you know, where you're trying

28:38

to to grow and and you need

28:40

the money to grow. Have you looked

28:42

into like SBA and like the sort

28:45

of SBA and bank loans? Because I

28:47

think, you know, the thing is we

28:49

don't really ever talk about that and

28:51

it can be such an incredible resource,

28:54

especially, you know. The first answer is

28:56

you're doing it. This is how you

28:58

do it. This is actually how you

29:01

raise a company in the best way

29:03

because you have control and you're growing

29:05

and you're doing it. And that's another

29:07

question too for you is like, what

29:10

would you do with the money? I

29:12

mean, if it's just packaging and getting

29:14

into a store, you might be able

29:17

to get a loan for that. Have

29:19

you looked into bank loans and if

29:21

that's something that you would consider versus

29:24

bringing in a partner? COVID was a

29:26

great time to get federal money, so

29:28

that really helped us. So there's definitely

29:30

that avenue. It's just funny, like being

29:33

in the industry, the CPG industry, I

29:35

don't know if it's because you're just

29:37

surrounded by people, right, who are always

29:40

like, I raised X and I raised

29:42

this in this Brown series A-B-C-D-E. Like,

29:44

it's like, is this what I'm supposed

29:46

to be doing, right? But I agree

29:49

with you, it's like, fine, you can

29:51

get creative. with how you need to

29:53

front load anything, right? If it's just

29:56

packaging, like in this case, most of

29:58

it is, right? It's just accomplishing the

30:00

execution of a new store, then why

30:03

give? 25% of your business away to

30:05

someone who is never going to care

30:07

as much as I do. Yeah, and

30:09

they're going to have a lot of

30:12

opinions on how you do things. And

30:14

I mean, look, and to be frank,

30:16

it is a, we've talked about this

30:19

on the advice line before, it happens

30:21

to be a more challenging environment to

30:23

raise money, especially in food and CPG

30:25

businesses now. You know, what I'm hearing

30:28

from investors right now in the food

30:30

space is they're waiting, they're really looking

30:32

for brands to hit 50, really a

30:35

hundred million dollars in sales. You know,

30:37

it was a couple years ago, it

30:39

was 20. If a brand hit 20

30:42

million dollars in sales, it was a

30:44

target for acquisition, you know. That being

30:46

said, I mean, you have some friends

30:48

and family who have invested in the

30:51

business, right? Right, yeah. And so, I

30:53

mean, is there talk or thought about

30:55

maybe going back to them and if

30:58

that's something that you need, is that

31:00

an option? Yeah, that's also, that's part

31:02

of my plan of attack, right? It's

31:05

like, when we did that round, you,

31:07

I learned a lot about myself and

31:09

my connections, right? Like, people want to

31:11

help you, whether they're giving you money

31:14

or not, they want to help you,

31:16

and they want to help you, and

31:18

they give you the advice that kind

31:21

of leads you to the next person

31:23

that might, you know, write that check,

31:25

the people that I trust and have

31:27

believed in this product tap them first

31:30

because I was pleasantly surprised the first

31:32

time. So I probably will be pleasantly

31:34

surprised the second time I do this.

31:37

Well just to get to this other

31:39

this other point that you're making which

31:41

is like it does feel like and

31:44

I felt like this at Jenny's too

31:46

it does feel like even now, like,

31:48

like, your success as an entrepreneur is

31:50

not whether you're actually selling or creating

31:53

value for your customers. It's about whether

31:55

you've gotten what round of funding you're

31:57

in. And I'm so fundamentally against that.

32:00

I mean, I think that it has

32:02

to be, as entrepreneurs, it has to

32:04

be by our customers. really creating value

32:06

for people and honestly I think the

32:09

best way to do it is this

32:11

I'm talking about this Jenny's all the

32:13

time to like start small and build

32:16

just keep building. Jenny's took on partners

32:18

in 2015 but that was when we

32:20

started in 2002 from from 1996 you

32:23

know I was learning that whole time

32:25

I built my brand so that when

32:27

we brought in a private equity firm

32:29

who we're still with and we love

32:32

I mean we're very lucky on that

32:34

front but when we brought them the

32:36

brand was established enough that I still

32:39

had power, you know, to put it

32:41

frankly. Do you have a board of

32:43

advisors or a board of some people

32:45

that you lean on? We do, we

32:48

have a few. We haven't fully built

32:50

out a board, which I think we

32:52

need to do. I have found that

32:55

very helpful. I thought that was helpful

32:57

at Jenny's. When we brought in the

32:59

private equity firm in 2016, actually, we

33:02

organized a board, and that just made

33:04

us kind of prepare for... We had

33:06

to sort of tell everybody what we

33:08

were doing every month. We had to

33:11

get prepared for that meeting and we

33:13

had to, you know, but it also

33:15

helped us just organize together as a

33:18

team. They were so helpful to us.

33:20

So I have a new company now,

33:22

Flora, and we've already formed a board,

33:24

and we've already formed a board, and

33:27

we went out and found people who

33:29

are real experts there, and I think

33:31

there are a lot of people who

33:34

would want to help you, because you're

33:36

already out extra leverage. I think that's

33:38

great advice. Casey White, the brand is

33:41

called Jaju Perogi. Good luck. Good luck.

33:43

Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean

33:45

Jenny, do you know, obviously it's a

33:47

different like it's a different time environment

33:50

to raise outside capital and food, right,

33:52

in the food business, but it was

33:54

important, right? I mean, it really helped

33:57

you kind of super scale your business.

33:59

Yeah, and we looked for partners and

34:01

doing this at Florida too, we looked

34:04

for partners who could be, could add

34:06

more value to the company who could

34:08

really help us. I mean, we were

34:10

just a scrappy team and when they

34:13

came in, we sort of an executive

34:15

team of professionals. how to do it

34:17

and that was a game changer because

34:20

there are methods that we just you

34:22

just have to know you have to

34:24

learn. Yeah. What are you hearing I

34:26

mean if anything about fundraising for especially

34:29

for food brands right now? Well it's

34:31

funny you should ask because I'm literally

34:33

in the middle of it I've been

34:36

doing this for the last. I've been

34:38

building this company for two years really

34:40

scrappy and we've gotten some angel investors

34:43

for early stage just to get us

34:45

to kind of figure out what we're

34:47

doing. And now we're kind of going

34:49

after the bigger funding, but we are

34:52

finding, yes, of course, it's very tight,

34:54

very, very tight. And I think you

34:56

have to have a massive opportunity. I'm

34:59

hearing people say that, you know, they're

35:01

looking for companies who could become a

35:03

billion dollar company. Yeah. And if you

35:05

think about food, that's just global scale

35:08

almost. They're throwing around that B-word a

35:10

lot. Yeah. Stay with us because after

35:12

the break we'll talk to another founder

35:15

working to take their business to the

35:17

next level. I'm Guy Ross and you're

35:19

listening to the advice line right here

35:22

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back to the device line on how

36:58

I built this lab. I'm Guy Ross

37:00

and today I'm taking your calls with

37:02

Jenny Britton, founder of Jenny's Splendid Ice

37:04

Creams. So Jenny, let's get back into

37:07

it and take another call. Okay, sure,

37:09

let's go. Hello, welcome to the advice

37:11

line. You're on with Jenny Britton. Tell

37:13

us your name where you're calling from

37:15

and a little bit about your business.

37:18

Hi Guy, hi Jenny, my name is

37:20

Kali Zayher. I'm calling in from Los

37:22

Angeles California. I'm the founder of Ube.co

37:24

and we make organic purple sweet potato

37:27

pet treats tailored to sensitive stomach and

37:29

skin pets. So purple sweet potato, tell

37:31

me the connection between purple sweet potatoes

37:33

and like dog treats for sensitive stomachs.

37:36

Yeah, for sure. They're made of organic

37:38

purple sweet potatoes as our main ingredient.

37:40

The term for it is oubae. So

37:42

a Filipino, yeah, a lot of Filipino

37:45

community loves that as a really high

37:47

fiber ingredient in a lot of food

37:49

and desserts. So I was looking at

37:51

just. in general in the market, there's

37:54

not a lot of treats that's tailored

37:56

to sensitive stomach pets. And I have

37:58

a dog that has a very sensitive

38:00

stomach. He is a kavapoo and he's

38:03

just from when he was young, it

38:05

was really hard to find high fiber

38:07

treats for him. So I was cooking

38:09

a lot of sweet potatoes, a lot

38:12

of pumpkin, things like that for him.

38:14

And then I found purple sweet potatoes.

38:16

And then I was doing a lot

38:18

of research because my background is in

38:21

science and I found that there's a

38:23

lot of antioxidants and minerals that are

38:25

really good for their health in purple

38:27

sweet potatoes. So that's how it started.

38:29

Wow. And tell me where you're selling

38:32

them. Are they is direct to consumer

38:34

through website right now? Yeah, mainly direct

38:36

to consumers. We have we're in 10

38:38

local stores around LA and two in

38:41

Hawaii. Yeah. Cool. I mean, give me

38:43

a sense a little bit about your

38:45

sales. Have you guys broken $25,000, $50,000

38:47

in sales, but not to $100,000 yet?

38:50

Right. Okay, cool. And what's your question

38:52

for us today? So my question is,

38:54

right now, currently we have only relied

38:56

on organic growth, achieving about like 30%

38:59

return returning customer rate online. But we're

39:01

facing like a really big challenge in

39:03

reaching new customers. And I think to

39:05

scale the business effectively, I think it's

39:08

time to like partner with a PR

39:10

firm for marketing to allow me to

39:12

focus on product development. So how can

39:14

I find a reputable PR firm to

39:17

help promote oubay.co and expand our reach?

39:19

All right, Jenny, I want to bring

39:21

you in. Dog treats, census stomachs, makes

39:23

a lot of sense, sweet potatoes. Let's

39:26

go, let's figure this out. Amazing, Kelly,

39:28

congrats on your business, it's so cool.

39:30

I mean, I'm always floored, I have

39:32

two animals. I adore them and I

39:34

always just like, I'm really tuned into

39:37

this idea that people spend so much

39:39

money on their pets. And you know,

39:41

we need to like care for our

39:43

pets. We do. We care for them

39:46

like there are children. We do. I

39:48

love your background in science and I

39:50

think this can really carry you. And

39:52

I'm just curious as a scientist. What

39:55

was your, how does that specifically help

39:57

you wade through the research? Because when

39:59

you get a PR firm, I think

40:01

what we're going to do is figure

40:04

out what your messages. You're a scientist,

40:06

you looked through all the research, you

40:08

created this, you know, this idea based

40:10

on what you know, and now you're

40:13

sharing it with other people. And so,

40:15

have you thought about, like, how to

40:17

use your experience in a way that

40:19

community to communicate that with others? And

40:22

I think that would be like, what

40:24

a PR firm might help you do

40:26

too. Yeah. I thought a lot about

40:28

this, actually. I was planning to do

40:31

like a fun ingredient list for each

40:33

product that I launched. with the scientific

40:35

terms of the ingredients in it. But

40:37

also there's like a little bit of

40:39

hesitant in the sense that, oh, would

40:42

people think that it's like more like

40:44

medicinal or like, you know, is it

40:46

chemical? You know, the words kind of

40:48

sound like scary. So I try to

40:51

use just like simpler terms, antioxidants, and

40:53

fiber, things like that. Like my message

40:55

right now is not coming out as

40:57

clear as they want it to be.

41:00

Yeah, that's so much a part of

41:02

our, what we tackle as entrepreneurs, especially

41:04

in the beginning when it's just us

41:06

doing everything. Getting your communications, what you're

41:09

saying, right? And because you're right, even

41:11

though it matters that the science is

41:13

accurate and that it's there. What are

41:15

you actually communicating to the customer that

41:18

activates your customer? And you learn that

41:20

by selling, by selling to people and

41:22

listening to feedback with your audience. What's

41:24

resonating? What are people really, I mean,

41:27

yes, the product works, we hope, yes,

41:29

it works, but why? And what is

41:31

the thing that you can then use?

41:33

Because then that becomes your communication strategy,

41:36

which then leads into like, when you

41:38

go and try to get on the

41:40

today show? Yeah, I think, from last

41:42

year, we did a lot of farmers

41:44

market and like sell directly to customers.

41:47

And we found that one of the

41:49

things they're most like interested about is

41:51

just the oobae itself. We have a

41:53

slogan called oobae for my bay and

41:56

everyone's like, oh, I love oobae. So

41:58

my dogs must love oobae too. And

42:00

it turns out they do. Like, so

42:02

I think that's a good. way to

42:05

attract people, but I think what kept

42:07

the people coming back is the health

42:09

benefits. The fiber, the vitamin, the antioxidants,

42:11

you can see you can see the

42:14

improvement in their gut health by by

42:16

feeding them the treats. What about, I

42:18

mean, I know you're small and you're

42:20

probably scrappy, but I mean, have you

42:23

tried putting, playing around with social media

42:25

ads? Yes, I've done it just me

42:27

and my husband learning from like YouTube

42:29

and everything and just launched the ads

42:32

and Yeah, it didn't turn out so

42:34

well like much we broke even on

42:36

what we spent Okay, customer acquisition is

42:38

getting harder and harder on social media,

42:41

but I will just say this We

42:43

have a an episode of the show

42:45

coming up on misfits market which sells

42:47

like food that would otherwise get thrown

42:49

away, you know, an apple with a

42:52

blemish or something. And what they did,

42:54

and again, this is in 2018, so

42:56

it's a little slightly different environment, but

42:58

still effective today, I think, instead of

43:01

focusing on, hey, you know, this is

43:03

still edible or we sell food for,

43:05

you know, these 30% less, they would

43:07

literally have like a weird freakish-looking carrot,

43:10

right, a photo of it, and it

43:12

would just say, this carrot needs a

43:14

home, that was the. and people would

43:16

click on it because it was so

43:19

weird. You have a product that's unusual.

43:21

You're using purple sweet potatoes. I know

43:23

them, right? But if you go to,

43:25

you can get them at Trader Joe's,

43:28

but a lot of people would be

43:30

like a purple sweet potato. What is

43:32

that? Right. And so because you've got

43:34

this sort of literally, like what Seth

43:37

Goden would call a purple. cow product

43:39

right is it's so it's unusual it

43:41

stands out I feel like that could

43:43

be really just an interesting thing to

43:46

try right right I think I think

43:48

we just need a lot of guidance

43:50

in in marketing and PR right now

43:52

because I've tried a few things and

43:54

I'm I honestly am not good at

43:57

social media and I have hired a

43:59

part-time person to help me with TikTok

44:01

and it's not working as well as

44:03

I wanted to because obviously people don't

44:06

care as much as I do. So,

44:08

and I've been reached out by so

44:10

many PR firms in Los Angeles, obviously,

44:12

that like they could help, they could

44:15

help pitch, they could help get us

44:17

into stores, they could help. They promised

44:19

so many, it's not like a promise,

44:21

but they're trying to sell their PR

44:24

firms, obviously. But it's just hard to

44:26

find who I can trust. I find

44:28

that. PR firms can be really awesome,

44:30

but you have to have somebody, you

44:33

have to have somebody at that firm

44:35

who is your champion, who adores you,

44:37

who believes in you, who wants to

44:39

push it forward. Otherwise, it falls flat

44:42

and you just, you kind of go

44:44

nowhere and it's very expensive. You might

44:46

be better suited to spend that money

44:48

on somebody who can work for you

44:51

and multiple. places who could have some

44:53

contacts with media or know how to

44:55

speak to them might be able to

44:57

also help you with social media or

44:59

even do that, but who can really

45:02

organize this communication, just somebody who's like

45:04

saying this is our message out there

45:06

and where are we going to put

45:08

it? Who are we going to tell

45:11

this to who can just kind of

45:13

come in and help organize all that?

45:15

And then that is their only job.

45:17

And it wouldn't even, it doesn't even

45:20

have to be full-time yet, you know.

45:22

Yeah, I think that's really your advice.

45:24

PR firms are tricky, right? Yeah, I

45:26

mean, if you find, it's that perfect

45:29

fit and Jenny's right. I mean, they

45:31

have to love the product. And if

45:33

you could find somebody, I mean, look,

45:35

if you find a firm that has

45:38

made a pitch, and you say to

45:40

them, look, my buddy. is $10,000 or

45:42

$5,000, like this is what we can

45:44

pay. So show us what you can

45:47

do with that. I mean, there's an

45:49

argument to be made that you could,

45:51

if you're willing to take that kind

45:53

of risk with that amount of money.

45:56

it might be worth the risk. You

45:58

say, you know, I don't know social

46:00

media well, and I think most people

46:02

feel that way. Like, I don't know

46:04

how to do it, but the reality

46:07

is most people who do know how

46:09

to do it, they just figured it

46:11

out by doing it. I love the

46:13

idea of really going into social media.

46:16

I know that it's all very scary.

46:18

But guy is right, you learn by

46:20

doing it. And also just remember that

46:22

people like authenticity, and especially now, when

46:25

it doesn't seem like anything is authentic...

46:27

person, I can tell, you know, I

46:29

mean, obviously. And people like that realness

46:31

and just saying, just going on and

46:34

saying, try to keep it under 30

46:36

seconds or even under 15, just try

46:38

to say like, this is why I

46:40

did this. This is why it's good

46:43

for your puppy. Just show the behind

46:45

the scenes. And just start doing it.

46:47

And then part of social media too,

46:49

a big part of it is just

46:52

talking to everybody else. So going on

46:54

every other, everybody who's talking about dogs

46:56

or pets, being on their feed, talking

46:58

to talking to them, talking to them.

47:01

I was doing that a lot last

47:03

year. That's why it started hiring another

47:05

person to help me with the comments,

47:07

the likes, the messaging, all that, because

47:09

it was taking a lot of my

47:12

time. I'm still a full-time scientist at

47:14

UCLA. And so this is like a

47:16

part-time passion business side thing that I

47:18

hope that it will turn into a

47:21

full-time one day. But we depend a

47:23

lot on brand ambassadors. Like we use

47:25

an app that... like you know search

47:27

for bad brand ambassadors and they get

47:30

like a percentage of the sales so

47:32

that's has been really helpful they make

47:34

really good contents but I do think

47:36

the messaging needs to be a little

47:39

more clear. I just want to say

47:41

like when you said I'm a full-time

47:43

scientist at UCLA like I'm a full-time

47:45

scientist at UCLA I started a dog

47:48

food company because I needed something to

47:50

feed my dog totally you know. And

47:52

I decided to use Ubay because it's

47:54

purple, you need color, you need vibrancy,

47:57

you need fiber, or dogs, you know,

47:59

we all do. I love that so

48:01

much, just that message over and over

48:03

and over and over again. Yeah. People

48:06

invest in you, even consumers and customers,

48:08

like they want to know that like,

48:10

oh, this came from somebody who really

48:12

cares and really knows what they're doing.

48:15

Yeah, totally. Yeah, 100% agree. The brand

48:17

is called Ubay. Ubay. CO. CO. CO.

48:19

Cali. Cali. Cali. Cali. Cali. Jenny, I've

48:21

already asked you about luck or skill

48:23

on the show many years ago, but

48:26

I have a different question for you,

48:28

which is if you were able to

48:30

go back, you know, even not just

48:32

at the beginning, but like 2005, 2010,

48:35

you know, when you were still really

48:37

scrappy business, you weren't this national brand

48:39

yet, what advice now, you know, now

48:41

that you know what you know here

48:44

at this point in your life and

48:46

career, do you think might have been

48:48

helpful for you to have known then?

48:50

This is what I say when if

48:53

people say, what would you have done

48:55

differently? Yeah. And there are a lot

48:57

of things I would have done differently,

48:59

but it's all about who. In 2005,

49:02

2007, what I needed on my team

49:04

were, I needed a coach, I needed

49:06

to understand how founders carry power in

49:08

companies as we were beginning to grow.

49:11

There are leadership things that you can

49:13

learn pretty quickly, especially if you have

49:15

somebody on your side who can help

49:17

you. A business advisor. That was so

49:20

important to me, especially as we started

49:22

to grow and to like bring on

49:24

people from the outside. I needed to

49:26

learn how to speak that language. I

49:28

need somebody on my side, outside of

49:31

the company. And then I would just

49:33

say a great attorney. As a founder,

49:35

you know, you have your company attorney

49:37

or whatever, but you do need to

49:40

have kind of your own really great

49:42

attorney, just to have somebody to ask

49:44

questions. There's so much. And if you're

49:46

a leader in your company, you really

49:49

need to have an understanding of law.

49:51

So those people I would have had

49:53

definitely on my side. Now, going back

49:55

a little earlier than that, I think

49:58

we get to like where Cali is,

50:00

and I would have. say communications. That

50:02

was something that I spent a lot

50:04

of time trying to figure out and

50:07

it would have been really cool to

50:09

have somebody who could just could come

50:11

and say here's what you're doing really

50:13

well this is what people are resonating

50:16

with because you might whatever you think

50:18

is probably not the same as what's

50:20

going on over the counter. So having

50:22

that communications person just to help me

50:25

know what I should be saying every

50:27

single day. Yeah. That's great advice. That's

50:29

Jenny Britton, founder of Jenny's Splendid Ice

50:31

Creams. Jenny, thanks so much for coming

50:33

back on the show. Oh my gosh,

50:36

this has been so much fun. Thank

50:38

you for inviting me, Guy, and your

50:40

team. You're the best. You're the best.

50:42

You're the best. It's great having. And

50:45

by the way, if you haven't heard

50:47

Jenny's original, I built this episode, you've

50:49

got to go back and check it

50:51

out. tested positive for Listeria. So we

50:54

decided that we were going to recall

50:56

everything, which meant that 265 tons of

50:58

ice cream that had been out in

51:00

the world came back to us and

51:03

there we were. Did you think there

51:05

was a possibility that you would shut

51:07

down? That your business could basically end?

51:09

I think at that point we realized

51:12

that that was it. And it was

51:14

weird because I kept a journal at

51:16

the time and I was like, I

51:18

don't even have any ideas. Thanks

51:22

so much for listening to the

51:25

show this week. Please make sure

51:27

to check out my newsletter. You

51:29

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well. This episode was produced by

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Rumtine Arablui. He was edited by

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