0:11

Do you experience excessive bouts

0:13

of money stress? Do you avoid

0:15

your bank balance like it's a

0:18

text from an ex? Do you

0:20

feel guilt and second-guessing about your

0:22

spending? If you answered yes, you

0:25

may be suffering from financial funk.

0:27

Wynab spelled YNAB is a life-changing

0:29

app designed to cure financial funk

0:31

with a simple method that offers

0:34

total control of your money. The

0:36

average Wynab user reports saving close

0:38

to $600 in their first month

0:41

and $6,000 in their first year.

0:43

Side effects may include less

0:45

financial stress, getting better

0:47

sleep, and eliminating arguments

0:49

about money. Warning! Using

0:51

wineab may be habit forming.

0:54

Before starting, ask your wallet

0:56

if adding more joy to

0:58

every day and every dollar

1:00

is right for you. Listeners

1:02

of how I built this

1:04

can claim an exclusive three-month

1:06

trial subscription for free with

1:08

no credit card required at

1:10

ynab.com/built. And

1:14

now a message from our sponsor

1:16

vital proteins. As we age, sometimes

1:18

we can start to produce less

1:21

collagen, which is the most abundant

1:23

protein in our bodies. That can

1:25

lead to fine lines, saggy skin,

1:27

and your bones and joints not

1:29

moving like they used to. That's

1:31

where vital proteins comes in. Their

1:34

collagen peptides are a supplement that

1:36

helps support healthy hair, skin, nails,

1:38

bones, and joints. Vital proteins is

1:40

the number one brand of collagen

1:42

peptides in the US. They're the

1:45

experts. In fact, as I get

1:47

older, I know it's so much

1:49

more important to take care of

1:51

my body, and I've been using

1:53

Vital Proteins collagen peptides because I

1:56

want to look, feel, and move

1:58

my best. Try Vital proteins. built

2:00

at checkout. These statements have not

2:02

been evaluated by the Food and

2:05

Drug Administration. This product is not

2:07

intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or

2:09

prevent any disease. With Amazon

2:11

One Medical Pay Per Visit,

2:13

you can access transparent, upfront,

2:15

and affordable health care to

2:17

treat common concerns, like ED

2:19

and hair loss and prescription

2:21

solutions for beauty and skin

2:23

care, right from the comfort

2:25

of your own home. 100%

2:28

online. Amazon One Medical Pay

2:30

Per Visit offers customers a

2:32

one-time flat fee per visit

2:34

with no insurance necessary. Connect

2:36

with a provider quickly 24-7.

2:38

No need to schedule a

2:40

visit. And Amazon Pharmacy

2:42

will provide fast free

2:45

delivery if medication is

2:47

needed. Get care and

2:50

meds for less with

2:52

Amazon. Head to amazon.com.

2:54

That's amazon.com/ B-U-I-L-T-O-M

2:57

to learn more.

2:59

A provider

3:01

determines eligibility.

3:04

Prices may vary.

3:06

We were getting

3:09

close to signing

3:11

the deal and then

3:13

the pandemic hit.

3:15

And the deal was off.

3:18

They pulled the deal. It

3:20

was like, oh my God,

3:22

you know, we thought it

3:24

was bad enough going through

3:26

like 9-11 and then, you

3:28

know, 2008 crash. The pandemic

3:30

was just like, Dennis' practice

3:32

closed, so far as doors

3:34

closed. I think I was

3:36

laying on the floor thinking,

3:39

I can't believe this, I

3:41

can't believe this, are we going

3:43

to lose our company? Welcome

3:53

to How I Built This a

3:55

show about innovators entrepreneurs idealists and

3:57

the stories behind the movement they

4:00

built. I'm Guy Ross and

4:02

on the show today how

4:04

Dennis Gross filled a white

4:07

space and skincare by perfecting

4:09

the peel and how he

4:11

and his wife Kerry grew

4:14

their first product into a

4:16

450 million dollar brand. You

4:18

may remember a few years

4:21

ago seeing a space-age-looking beauty device

4:23

that went absolutely viral on Tiktak.

4:25

It was a plastic face mask

4:27

that makes you sort of look

4:30

like a neon glowing C3PO. The

4:32

glow comes from these red and

4:34

blue LED lights which are meant

4:36

to reduce acne and make your

4:39

skin look younger and smoother. Anyway,

4:41

this particular mask I'm talking about

4:43

was designed by a brand called

4:45

Dr. Dennis Gross Skin Care. It's

4:48

a bit of a clunky name,

4:50

I'll admit, but it's also been

4:52

the brand's superpower. Because Dennis Gross

4:54

is a real person, a real

4:57

doctor, a real dermatologist who's been

4:59

making and selling a line of

5:01

skin care products for more than

5:03

25 years. But in the early

5:06

days there wasn't a brand at

5:08

all. There was just Dennis and

5:10

his patients at his clinic in

5:12

New York. Now, back in the

5:15

1990s, skin peel started to take

5:17

off, especially among affluent women in

5:19

New York. But the process would

5:21

often leave their skin blotchy and

5:24

red for a few days afterwards.

5:26

So, Dennis decided to come up

5:28

with his own formula. Ideally, a

5:30

recipe that would be as effective

5:33

without the splotchy side effects. His

5:35

formula became so popular that he

5:37

decided to come up with a

5:39

consumer version. And this is where

5:42

Kerry comes in. because she is

5:44

Dennis's partner in life and in

5:46

business. And together, they came up

5:48

with a plan to turn Dennis'

5:51

dermatology expertise into a skin care

5:53

brand. In the early years, they

5:55

funded the business mainly from Dennis'

5:57

income, and for the first two

6:00

decades, the brand was entirely bootstrapped

6:02

and relatively small for much

6:04

of that time. But in

6:07

2023, the cosmetics giant Shiseido

6:09

acquired Dr. Dennis Groes skincare

6:12

in a monster deal worth

6:14

around $450 million. As for

6:16

Dennis and Kerry, they were both

6:18

born in the late 1950s. Dennis

6:21

grew up in New York City

6:23

and Kerry in California. By the

6:25

early 90s, they were both living

6:28

in New York. Kerry was working

6:30

as a fashion buyer for Nordstrom

6:32

and Dennis had just started his

6:34

own dermatology practice and they were

6:37

about to find out that they

6:39

were neighbors. We were living in

6:41

the same apartment building on Third Avenue

6:43

in New York City. I had moved

6:46

in just a few months before and

6:48

so it took us a couple months

6:50

I guess to end up at the

6:53

elevator at the exact same moment. And

6:55

that's how you met. Yes, just at

6:57

the elevator, right? Okay, but normally, I

7:00

mean, you just push the elevator button

7:02

and then you get in the elevator

7:04

and you might look down or, you

7:07

know, today people look at their phones,

7:09

but, you know, this is night, early 90s,

7:11

you look up at the ceiling. But

7:13

that didn't happen. What, no, what, yeah.

7:15

I tell my kids all the time, if

7:17

there were cell phones back then, I

7:20

probably never would have had a

7:22

conversation with your dad. So I mean,

7:24

The story was from my point

7:26

of view is, so here I am,

7:28

this bachelor, and I was coming up

7:31

Third Avenue, as I always said on

7:33

a Friday. I remember to this day,

7:35

it was a Friday, and I walk

7:37

in the lobby, and there's Carrie

7:40

talking to the doorman, talking

7:42

to Orlando, and I was

7:44

literally struck by her. First of

7:47

all, she looked incredible. She's wearing

7:49

this incredible, like, mid-length skirt

7:51

and these crazy, sexy, blue-swaid

7:53

mules, as they were called,

7:55

and she had her dry

7:57

cleaning draped over her arms.

7:59

And she was talking to Orlando,

8:02

and I just was moved by

8:04

how she was so friendly to

8:06

him. You know, it wasn't like

8:08

the door man has hired help.

8:10

She was engaged in conversation. They

8:12

were laughing. They were talking. And

8:14

in any event, yeah, we wrote

8:16

up the elevator. And she looked

8:18

at me, and she looked at

8:20

me. And she looked at me.

8:22

I said, yeah, I'm tired. It

8:24

was Friday afternoon. And that was

8:26

it. That was the end of

8:28

the conversation. But I got off

8:30

my floor, I got up at

8:32

six, and I watched to see

8:35

what floor she got out of,

8:37

and she got off at 18

8:39

or 19. And this was not

8:41

me. This was a moment where

8:43

something was more powerful than what

8:45

had led my bachelor life before.

8:47

I got onto that intercom. I

8:49

called Orlando in the lobby. I

8:51

said, I just wrote up the

8:53

elevator. with this woman, what's her

8:55

story? And he said, oh, Orlando

8:57

said, oh, that's Carrie. She's great.

8:59

She doesn't have a boyfriend. She's

9:01

really nice. You too should really

9:03

meet her. So he intercombs me

9:05

back a few minutes later and

9:07

says, hey, I got Carrie right

9:10

here. You want to talk to

9:12

her? And Orlando puts her on

9:14

the phone. And I said, hi,

9:16

I'm the guy who said was

9:18

tired. Do you want to go

9:20

off for dinner sometime? Let me

9:22

think about it and she gave

9:24

me her work number, which was

9:26

kind of crazy because you think

9:28

about it I know where you

9:30

live I know your name It's

9:32

like okay. Fine. Let me call

9:34

you at work. But this is

9:36

pre cell phones. Yeah. Yeah. So

9:38

three weeks later I got to

9:40

go out with Carrie so we

9:42

went out to turn nice well.

9:45

It's funny that I have a

9:47

slightly different memories of what happened,

9:49

but I definitely remember looking at

9:51

him and he had a doctor's

9:53

bag in his hand and his

9:55

head was leaning against the wall

9:57

and he was looking at me.

9:59

It was a little uncomfortable, but

10:01

I was just friendly. Yeah. So

10:03

you guys, so you grew... to

10:05

go on a date. And obviously,

10:07

Kerry, you've learned that Dennis is

10:09

a dermatologist, and Dennis, you learn

10:11

about Kerry's background. And what do

10:13

you guys remember about? I mean,

10:15

what did you talk about? Where

10:17

did you connect over? Skin. Are

10:20

you kidding? So I grew up

10:22

in California. I had sun damage.

10:24

I was on the beach almost

10:26

my entire life or a tennis

10:28

court. I was in my 30s

10:30

and I was seeing signs of

10:32

aging and I was spending a

10:34

lot of time and energy and

10:36

money on my skin. So I

10:38

would shop the beauty counters, I

10:40

would go to spas, and I

10:42

thought I was doing the best

10:44

I could. And then I met

10:46

Dennis and had a conversation about

10:48

what was really happening with my

10:50

skin and what my future was

10:52

going to look like. And I

10:55

have to tell you, he gave

10:57

me such hope and optimism because

10:59

in my experience, I went to

11:01

a dermatologist for Poison Ivy. You

11:03

know, I didn't think of them

11:05

as the healthy aging gurus that

11:07

they are today. So it was

11:09

really a very, very exciting dinner

11:11

for me. Yeah, I mean on

11:13

that point. I mean, at that

11:15

time, the early 90s, right? I

11:17

mean, most people went to dermatologists

11:19

for rashes or, you know, Poison

11:21

Ivy or certain diseases of the

11:23

skin, right? They didn't go necessarily

11:25

for, you know, things that people

11:27

go to for today, like potok

11:30

treatment or, you know, skin care,

11:32

right? I mean, it really wasn't

11:34

about that in any way at

11:36

all, was it? No. That's right.

11:38

The whole cosmetic... component of dermatology

11:40

at that time was in its

11:42

infancy. Very little in the way

11:44

of active ingredients, but it was

11:46

growing. You know, there was a,

11:48

there was a, there was a

11:50

little bit of movement there. I

11:52

certainly was seeing it in my

11:54

practice, but it was actually through

11:56

this conversation that I had with

11:58

Kerry that we both together sort

12:00

of learned about the opportunity and

12:02

the state of the art on

12:05

the last. of the science and

12:07

the white space basically. Yeah, tell

12:09

me about that. I mean, in

12:11

the early 90s, if you, you

12:13

know, imagine like most people who

12:15

had a sort of a skin

12:17

care regimen would get some creams

12:19

and, you know, at the department

12:21

store. They would go to the

12:23

department store and they would, you

12:25

know, decide between Estillader and Lancome

12:27

and it was moisturizers, basically. And

12:29

the serums were just in their

12:31

infancy, I think. But there were

12:33

no indie brands. There was no

12:35

disruption, so to speak. And there

12:37

was really nothing with an active

12:40

ingredient. Yeah, explain that. I mean,

12:42

Dennis, when you were looking at

12:44

the ingredients of what was available

12:46

over the counter, what would an

12:48

active ingredient be that you weren't

12:50

seeing? Yeah, that's what we did

12:52

for fun. We used to look

12:54

at labels together. you know, she

12:56

literally would say, what about this

12:58

one? What about this one? Is

13:00

this going to do it? I

13:02

would bring products home like every

13:04

week. And I was amazed at

13:06

how little there was in terms

13:08

of efficacy built into the actual

13:10

product. A lot of it struck

13:12

me as being packaging and promise,

13:15

but in terms of really delivering

13:17

what could be done to the

13:19

skin, I felt like there is

13:21

so much. more possible. So it

13:23

was through our relationship and our

13:25

conversations that we really started to

13:27

think, you know, like what could

13:29

be done here. And in my

13:31

practice, again, I was seeing it

13:33

too. And the real thing that

13:35

was going on was it was

13:37

the beginning of the lunchtime peals

13:39

in dermatology. Yeah, what was that?

13:41

Tell me about that. It was

13:43

the idea of doing something to

13:45

a patient. by the dermatologist where

13:47

they would come in and in

13:50

a matter of few minutes get

13:52

what was called appeal. And so

13:54

it was glycolic acid. You were

13:56

being sold by... people coming into

13:58

the dermatology office like kits where

14:00

you would have the patient come

14:02

in and then you would do

14:04

a 30% peel on them and

14:06

then they would come back a

14:08

week later and you do a

14:10

40% and then 50% all the

14:12

way up to 70%. And literally

14:14

these chemicals would peel your skin?

14:16

By design, yes. That was the

14:18

idea. And it was going to

14:20

make the skin red and raw

14:22

and flaky and peel and you

14:25

couldn't go out. So wait, you

14:27

go for these peals to the

14:29

dermatologist, but then for a couple

14:31

weeks your face would be blotchy?

14:33

Blotchy. Exactly. Now that was considered

14:35

good. Okay. Okay. I seem to

14:37

remember this. I seem to remember

14:39

people having blotchy faces in the

14:41

mid-90s. Sex in the city, guy.

14:44

Yes. Samantha. Samantha. Right. Yes.

14:46

These peels were aggressive and you had

14:48

downtime. I mean, you couldn't leave the

14:50

house, perhaps. So I felt like it made

14:53

no sense. There's no organ in the

14:55

body that you injure to make it

14:57

come back better and stronger. If

14:59

you're a runner, you're never going

15:01

to hurt your lungs so that

15:03

you're going to be able to be

15:05

even more efficient as a runner. It didn't

15:07

make sense to me. At the same time,

15:09

it really was catching on. And I tried

15:12

it. I did it. I did it. You

15:14

know. And what I saw was that the

15:16

patients were A. not happy with

15:18

the downtime. Two, they didn't see

15:20

results. It didn't work. And

15:23

I wanted to introduce and

15:25

design a treatment that had no

15:27

downtime. So I designed appeal for

15:29

my patients in my office. That

15:32

was an alternative and it

15:34

worked better. And just to

15:36

like understand, I mean, you're

15:38

obviously a medical doctor, so

15:40

you have a science background.

15:42

And so what would you

15:44

do? I mean, like... at

15:46

night when you closed up

15:48

shop you would start to

15:50

mix ingredients and try to

15:52

get the proportions to your specifications?

15:54

So yes, what I did

15:57

was I had several new

15:59

ideas. that I put to work

16:01

in creating a brand new formula.

16:04

The first one was, instead of

16:06

one acid at a high concentration,

16:09

I determined and discovered and it

16:11

worked multiple acids, different ones, at

16:13

lower concentrations, that together additively had

16:16

a benefit, but no downtime. When

16:18

you say downtime, there was no

16:21

like period of red splotchy skin.

16:23

Precisely. No blotchiness. No inflammation. No

16:25

inflammation. The most important second thing

16:28

was. a second step to neutralize

16:30

it, right? In chemistry, you have your

16:32

acids, but you also have the base.

16:35

You have things that are alkaline. You

16:37

have things that have a higher pH

16:39

versus low pH of acids. Does it

16:41

really take peptobismal? Exactly. So acids may

16:43

be okay and good, but for a

16:46

limited time only. And then I determined

16:48

that you needed a second step to

16:50

turn it off. And that was the

16:52

secret sauce here. So I created

16:55

a system, a product, a treatment,

16:57

multiple acids, followed by second step.

16:59

And that innovation led to my practice

17:01

really blossoming. All right, let's get back

17:03

to your relationship for a moment because

17:06

you guys meet in the early 90s

17:08

and how long, I mean, it sounds

17:10

like you guys hit it off very

17:13

quickly and have a lot of common

17:15

interest. Carry how long. between the

17:17

time you meet and the time you get

17:19

married. I think we got engaged

17:21

after nine months of dating. Wow.

17:24

Yeah. So it was, it was

17:26

fast. Yeah. And then had an

17:28

engagement that lasted nine months. And

17:30

my feeling was, I needed to

17:32

go through four seasons with Kerry, just

17:34

to make sure it was right. So

17:37

we got through three seasons and got

17:39

married, but the fourth season was okay

17:41

too. So we're good. I mean, you

17:44

guys also, I think both of you.

17:46

really wanted to start a family very

17:48

quickly. Correct. I was very much a

17:51

family person too, yeah. And of course,

17:53

you know, both of you guys in

17:55

your 30s and it gets harder to

17:57

have kids after 40 and later, so

17:59

was there... was that part of

18:01

the thinking as well? Yeah

18:03

the biological clock was ticking

18:05

for me for sure but

18:07

I think I kind of

18:10

had like this idea of

18:12

myself being a working mother

18:14

and we got pregnant I

18:16

actually resigned from from Nordstrom

18:18

and I had twins which

18:20

was quite a delight and a shock

18:23

all at once but in any case

18:25

all the while we were thinking about

18:27

a business. You know, it was when

18:30

Dennis would look at my beauty products

18:32

and my skin care and he would

18:34

say like, why do these chemists put

18:36

these ingredients in here? There's

18:38

no skin benefit. And when

18:40

he said that, I was

18:42

like, wow, he's gonna think

18:44

very differently than a cosmetic

18:47

chemist. Yeah. Because he's seeing

18:49

patients every day. And so

18:51

Dennis's practice. We call it

18:53

the living lab because his

18:55

patience, there were just so

18:57

many ideas coming to mind.

18:59

So, you know, we're in

19:01

the mid-90s at this point.

19:03

We're married. We have our

19:05

beautiful twins, Daniel and Allison,

19:07

and all the while we're

19:09

thinking, thinking, thinking about a

19:12

business. And I must say

19:14

that to that point... My practice

19:16

did teach me a lot because

19:18

I also had a very international

19:21

practice. My office was at NYU,

19:23

was near the United Nations, and

19:25

literally I had the United Nations

19:28

Medical Office, send me people. So

19:30

I saw people from all over

19:32

the world. And you know, I

19:35

learned about different skin types, different

19:37

skin tones, issues. And the other

19:39

thing is, I started to ask

19:41

my patients. What products are you

19:44

using? And I was amazed at

19:46

what I learned, which was that

19:48

pretty much they were what I

19:51

called going through the merry-go-round of

19:53

discontent. The patients were using a

19:55

product for some hope to get

19:58

benefits of some sort. They weren't

20:00

seeing it. They would then stop that

20:02

one and buy another one, hoping that

20:04

would work. That one didn't work. Now

20:07

we're on to the next horse in

20:09

the merry-go-round, another one. And after the

20:11

third one didn't work, well, they go

20:13

back to the first one, hoping this

20:16

one would work. So that's when I

20:18

said, let me add it. I mean,

20:20

clearly, because of your background, you were

20:22

looking at the ingredients on over-the-counter products,

20:25

and you were saying, well, well, this

20:27

doesn't, more people weren't doing that. I

20:29

mean, what were in the products

20:31

that didn't make sense? I mean,

20:33

clearly, I mean, I would assume

20:36

they were formulated by people with

20:38

some background in chemistry, otherwise, why

20:40

would they be making skin care

20:43

products? They weren't dermatologists. That's the

20:45

key. You know, there's a difference

20:47

between being a chemist in the

20:50

laboratory and actually having a background,

20:52

as I did, in the chemistry,

20:54

the science to actually using ingredients,

20:57

using ingredients, and seeing patients. So

20:59

my first product was the Alpha

21:01

Beta Peel. And that was

21:03

really what put us on

21:05

the map, because it was an

21:08

at-home, two-step peel treatment.

21:10

So we brought the clinic

21:12

into the home of the

21:14

consumer. And so it was a

21:17

game changer, it was a disruptor.

21:19

So between 1995 and 2000,

21:21

Dennis had his clinical peel,

21:24

his doctor's peel, which was

21:26

the strongest, and then we

21:28

went to a contract manufacturer

21:30

and asked them for pads

21:32

and jars, a 30-day supply,

21:34

which was sort of a

21:37

go-to-market strategy that you go

21:39

into the clinic, you have

21:41

a peel, You take home your 30-day

21:43

supply of peel pads, step one

21:45

and step two, you use that

21:48

every morning at home, and then

21:50

when your jar is empty, it's

21:52

time to come back to the

21:54

clinic for another treatment. And so

21:56

his patients loved it. We were selling

21:58

out of our home. home kits rapidly

22:01

and that to us was basically

22:03

proof of concept and that's when

22:05

we moved ahead to start the

22:08

brand. I got you. So initially

22:10

the idea was let's see how

22:12

this works in the clinic right

22:14

so because it sounds like Dennis

22:17

and Kerry both of you already

22:19

in 1995 when you started to

22:21

give this to your patients Dennis

22:23

that in your mind you were

22:25

thinking this is a brand. This

22:28

is a business. at the birth

22:30

of this product that was already

22:32

fully formed, this idea. It was,

22:34

but you know what? It was so

22:36

helpful to have a confidence that that

22:39

experience, that living lab of the practice,

22:41

gave us, because yeah, my patients would

22:43

get this product to take home, but

22:46

then we had people coming into my

22:48

front desk at my practice, who were

22:50

not my patients, saying my friend bought

22:53

these peel pads here, and the results

22:55

are incredible, I'd like to buy them

22:57

too. And so there was a time

23:00

where it got to such a proportion

23:02

of people coming in asking for that

23:04

product that literally one day I came

23:06

home to carry. I said, I think

23:08

we may have a business here. All

23:10

right, let me just dig into this

23:12

bit. So, first of all, the name

23:14

of the brand. You guys gave it

23:16

a name, right? Yes, we did. And

23:18

you called it? MD Skincare. MD Medical

23:21

Doctor Skincare. Okay, good sounds. And

23:23

it was, I guess, designed to

23:25

sort of... signal that this was

23:28

made by a doctor, a skin

23:30

doctor, this was scientifically formulated to

23:32

differentiate it from what you would

23:35

find at a department store. That's

23:37

true. And this was just in

23:39

your practice. You were not offering

23:42

this up to other dermatologists quite

23:44

yet. Correct. Okay. So what we did

23:46

was our go-to-market strategy was to go

23:48

to spas. day spas, resorts, there was

23:51

quite a few in New York City.

23:53

And this was, just to clarify,

23:55

this was about five years after

23:57

just doing this in Dennis' clinic.

24:00

We were ready to go in

24:02

2000 and our first accounts

24:04

was the Ritz Carlton, Paula

24:06

Brecht-day spot. There were beautiful

24:08

spots in Connecticut. How did

24:10

you get those accounts? Did you

24:12

already have some media attention by

24:14

that point? Were people aware of

24:17

this thing that was happening? Absolutely.

24:19

The beauty press were Dennis'

24:21

patients. We never advertised. We

24:24

just had... articles in L

24:26

and Vogue and Harper's and

24:28

this was before the internet.

24:31

There was no internet. There were

24:33

no, as you said, no cell

24:35

phones. and no boat talks even.

24:37

It was super exciting. We went

24:39

to spas initially and you know

24:42

when I had retired from Nordstrom

24:44

I indicated to them that I

24:46

might be coming back to you

24:48

with the brand and so I

24:50

got my Nordstrom girls on board

24:52

and Nordstrom had spas also so

24:55

we did the cosmetic floor, the

24:57

beauty floor, as well as the

24:59

spa treatment rooms. And to the

25:01

press, which was a really important

25:03

component for us in the early

25:05

days, the press were equally non-believers

25:07

that you could actually have skin

25:09

care results without the blotchiness. And

25:11

so they were invited into my

25:13

practice. We would do the treatment

25:16

on them. And like my clients,

25:18

my patients, they were amazed at

25:20

the immediate results they saw and

25:22

then how things got better and

25:24

better with the retail product. So

25:26

I earned their trust, you know,

25:28

and then they actually started

25:30

to come to me privately. And you

25:33

would be quoted in newspapers and

25:35

magazines and so. Precisely. How did

25:37

you, when you started initially selling

25:39

to spas, you know, Did you

25:41

have to also go in and

25:43

show them how to use the

25:46

product or was it something that

25:48

they could just read in the

25:50

instructions? Absolutely, no. We had trainers.

25:52

I mean it was a lot

25:54

of, you know, writing protocols for

25:57

the estheticians and creating manuals and

25:59

brochures and... old school videos

26:01

and it was a lot

26:03

and I was starting to

26:06

feel like a little bit

26:08

of imposter syndrome like am

26:11

I really going to be

26:13

able to do this? It

26:15

was pretty crazy and here

26:18

we are being very disruptive

26:20

in the industry by asking

26:23

people to put acid on

26:25

their face every day. How

26:28

a lawsuit forces the brand

26:30

to totally change its name.

26:32

Stay with us. I'm Guy

26:35

Ross and you're listening to

26:37

how I built this. use

26:40

LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown

26:42

to a network of over

26:44

one billion professionals, and that's

26:47

where it stands apart from

26:49

other ad buys. You can

26:52

target by job title, industry,

26:54

company, role, seniority, skills, company

26:57

revenue, whatever you're looking for,

26:59

which means you can find

27:01

all the professionals you need

27:04

to reach in one place.

27:06

Stop wasting budget on the

27:09

wrong audience and start targeting

27:11

the right professionals. only on

27:13

LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even

27:16

give you a $100 credit

27:18

on your next campaign so

27:21

you can try it yourself.

27:23

Just go to linkedin.com/built this.

27:26

That's linkedin.com/built this. Terms and

27:28

conditions apply. Only on LinkedIn

27:30

ads. What separates the true

27:33

leaders from the rest? It's

27:35

not just vision and ambition,

27:38

it's the courage to take

27:40

the road less traveled. For

27:42

those with a palpable passion

27:45

for life. There's the Range

27:47

Rover sport. This isn't your

27:50

average luxury SUV. The Range

27:52

Rover sport is a new

27:55

dimension of sporting prowess. black

27:57

hood vents, black brake calipers,

27:59

and 23-inch gloss black wheels,

28:02

the optional stealth pack engages

28:04

your dark side. Plus, Dynamic

28:07

Launch delivers maximal torque for

28:09

increased straight line acceleration. And

28:11

with rapid DC charging and

28:14

an estimated all-electric range of

28:16

48 miles, the Range Rover

28:19

sport plug-in electric hybrid delivers

28:21

thrilling performance with an electric

28:24

edge. Build your Range Rover

28:26

sport at Land Rover USA.

28:30

This episode is sponsored by Canva.

28:32

If you make decks at work,

28:34

you should make the switch to

28:37

Canva presentations. Canva presentations might be

28:39

the most visually impressive presentations you'll

28:41

ever use. Start with a stunning

28:44

template. Hey,

29:41

welcome back to how I built

29:43

this. I'm Guy Ross. So it's

29:46

2002, an MD Skin Care is

29:48

moving into spas, and even a

29:50

few stores, like Nordstrom. And then,

29:52

Kerry decides to pitch it to

29:54

a French beauty store that's relatively

29:57

new to the US. Sofora. I

29:59

remember flying out to San Francisco

30:01

and, you know, sitting down in

30:03

their conference room, imposter syndrome, I'm

30:05

thinking, the Nordstrom people knew me.

30:08

So I was fine there, but

30:10

I'm thinking, are they gonna just

30:12

think I'm the doctor's wife that

30:14

I don't know what I'm doing?

30:16

And so it was a little

30:19

nerve-wracking and I sat down with

30:21

them and then we fell in

30:23

love with each other. But we

30:25

actually, so... We had this like

30:27

beautiful business model. I just want

30:30

to tell you that like our

30:32

clients would travel and they'd go

30:34

to the Four Seasons in Maui

30:36

or they'd go to Florida and

30:38

stay at a resort and see

30:40

our products and then they'd go

30:42

back home and they'd go to

30:45

Nordstrom or Sifora. and see our

30:47

products again. And they're like, wow,

30:49

this is a pretty interesting brand.

30:51

It's a professional brand, but I

30:53

can also buy it in my

30:55

local department stores. And so they

30:57

had this journey and it had

30:59

this beautiful kind of halo effect on

31:02

our brand of really being authoritative

31:04

in this space. And Carrie, I mean,

31:06

when you guys decide, okay. We're going

31:08

to go to a contract manufacturer. We're

31:10

going to have them make this stuff.

31:13

We're initially going to just sell it

31:15

to our own customer. So it probably

31:17

wasn't that expensive because you were probably

31:19

able to sell it at a premium.

31:21

But then when you decided to make

31:23

it for cosmetologists working

31:25

at Spaz, I mean, was it hard to

31:27

finance that or was it relatively

31:29

straightforward? Like from a cash

31:31

flow perspective. So we had a business

31:34

plan. We found a graphic artist. We

31:36

did a logo. We set up the

31:38

initial skew assortment. Of course, we had

31:40

to have a sunscreen in there for

31:43

sure. We had a cleanser. We had,

31:45

you know, it was a tight assortment,

31:47

maybe like 12 skews. And when I

31:49

needed money, I would have to have

31:52

Dennis write me a check. Right.

31:54

Basically, the money from your practice,

31:56

Dennis, was going to finance this

31:58

thing, right? It did. my savings account

32:01

had the guts and did

32:03

it. You know, I have to tell you

32:05

that in those early years we were

32:07

so busy. I mean, at this point

32:09

now I've got four kids, not me,

32:12

we have four kids. It's amazing.

32:14

You guys built this business

32:16

and raised four kids, but keep

32:18

going. It was crazy. But you

32:21

know, I started off with a

32:23

team of... independent account executives.

32:25

Like we had consultants, we didn't

32:27

have any employees. Right. So, you

32:29

know, my best friend was helping

32:32

and like we would be working

32:34

out of our apartment. And what were

32:36

you doing? Were you trying to like sell?

32:38

What were they mainly doing? Yeah, we

32:40

were opening new accounts, opening new

32:42

spa accounts and then trying to

32:44

figure out a forecast and how

32:46

are we going to enter into

32:49

the Sepora market and How are

32:51

we going to service those doors?

32:53

And so in any case, I

32:55

think by 2002, we hired our

32:57

first full-time employee. And what did

32:59

that person, what was that person's

33:01

role? Would they like a Swiss

33:03

Army knife? Did they do everything?

33:06

She was in the field. So

33:08

we had opened our first official

33:11

office in 2002 on Madison

33:13

Avenue. It was an exciting

33:15

time because the product literally

33:17

sold itself. You know,

33:19

once someone tried it,

33:22

consistently people were taking us as

33:24

an account. This was the alpha

33:26

beta appeal that you developed. And

33:28

by the way, how much was

33:30

it to buy the, to do

33:33

the alpha beta process at

33:35

the time? It was about $75,

33:37

I think, for a month's supply.

33:39

That was a lot, to ask.

33:41

I think the clients expected, okay,

33:43

I know I need a cleanser,

33:45

I know I need a moisturizer.

33:47

But this is something different.

33:49

This is a different step in

33:51

my regimen. And so they really,

33:54

you know, we had clients that

33:56

were coming to us with skin

33:58

problems like acne, hyper. pigmentation, advanced

34:01

aging. So they were,

34:03

it was an emotional

34:05

purchase and they became

34:07

super fans. They were

34:09

incredibly loyal. And there's

34:11

one other thing that

34:13

I want to talk about

34:16

really quickly. So we packaged

34:18

the peel in packets,

34:20

tandem packets, step one

34:22

and step two. And

34:24

this format gave us

34:26

the ability to sample.

34:28

and also like back in the

34:30

day, like we were doing direct

34:32

mail. We were mailing these little

34:34

packets on in envelopes and we

34:36

were doing skin care challenges and

34:38

you know you could get on

34:41

an airplane and then pass them

34:43

out to the flight attendants and

34:45

the people next to you and

34:47

people were, you know, they could

34:49

go on vacation and pack them

34:51

easily. They just were really easy

34:53

to use and they were... perfectly

34:55

dosed. You know, so it was just

34:57

the design of our peel packets, I

34:59

think, was part of our secret to

35:01

success. I know that you eventually

35:03

got it patented. You had to

35:06

because you had to protect this

35:08

thing, but was that expensive? Was

35:10

that time consuming? Tell me about

35:12

the process of getting that patent

35:14

done, because that was critical. It

35:16

was both. Yeah. Crucial, crucial. How

35:18

much does it cost, by the

35:20

way, to get a patent on

35:22

something like that? You know, my

35:24

recollection is it was somewhere in

35:26

the order of $100,000. God, that's

35:28

so crazy that it cost that

35:30

by lawyers and you get... But it

35:32

is very challenging. It is very challenging,

35:34

but... I really felt like my motto

35:36

then was, you know, if there's any

35:39

justice in this business world, this product

35:41

works so well that we are going

35:43

to be very successful. And all I

35:45

wanted was, you know, for it to

35:47

be a meritocracy. And as we grew,

35:50

there were times where we were in

35:52

the early days, Kerry, right? We were

35:54

losing money, and that was tough, you

35:56

know, and actually, actually, we went through

35:58

our savings, and I... took a mortgage

36:01

on our home to get extra

36:03

and I put it towards the

36:05

company. Now that was challenging and

36:07

that's where I had some concern

36:09

with what am I doing and

36:11

I have four kids and I'm

36:13

supporting my family through my practice

36:15

and now I'm investing in a

36:17

company and it's teetering because growth

36:20

costs money and before you turn

36:22

into profit you have to have

36:24

the confidence to put more money

36:26

in at that point. But I

36:28

think by the time we got

36:30

to 2005, Dennis wrote a book,

36:32

and that was a big deal

36:34

for us. That gave us a

36:37

lot of, he did a book

36:39

tour, we started winning awards, and

36:41

at that point, we were on

36:43

the brink of breaking even. Before

36:45

that, it was kind of like,

36:47

okay, who are we going to

36:49

pay this week? Are we going

36:51

to be able to collect $200,000

36:54

by Friday? And that was kind

36:56

of the startup energy every single

36:58

day that I would go into

37:00

the office and Dennis formulates all

37:02

of our products himself. He hand

37:04

selects meticulously every ingredient that goes

37:06

into every single one of our

37:08

products. And in addition to that,

37:11

we do clinical testing and that's

37:13

very expensive. So it was becoming

37:15

quite an endeavor of the company.

37:17

So yeah, I'm curious about, I

37:19

mean, tell me a little bit

37:21

more about what costs you money

37:23

because what are the other big

37:25

expenses, advertising? I mean, what costs

37:27

so much? We've never advertised in

37:30

those days, but I mean, as

37:32

far as the money goes, a

37:34

lot of it really was staffing.

37:36

It was people. I mean, do

37:38

you remember, you know, by, you

37:40

know, five years in 2005, 2006?

37:42

I mean, was your revenue. you

37:44

know, were you bringing in more

37:47

than $10 million? So, you know,

37:49

it's funny that there's certain financial

37:51

milestones that I always really remember,

37:53

and I remember the first time

37:55

we hit a million dollar month.

37:57

It was just like, woo! You

37:59

know, we all were like celebrating

38:01

in the conference rooms, but we

38:04

were definitely breaking even, and then

38:06

we all of a sudden started

38:08

to turn a profit. So you

38:10

hit profitability roughly when, do you

38:12

remember? I think we hit break

38:14

even around 2006, but we didn't

38:16

even have an e-commerce site until

38:18

2007. So that's when we really

38:20

started to see some profits coming

38:23

in. I mean, in terms of

38:25

growing, I mean, it was organic

38:27

growth, but do you remember, just

38:29

to give me a sense of

38:31

where you were, do you remember?

38:33

You mentioned that you, you know,

38:35

once you hit a million dollars

38:37

in sales a month, do you

38:40

remember what year that was? So

38:42

we started to grow then in

38:44

2008 we slowed down a bit

38:46

so it was probably around around

38:48

that time 2008- 2009. Tell me

38:50

why you started to slow down

38:52

a bit. Because of the the

38:54

crash. The crash, okay. That was

38:57

a disaster. You got spooked by

38:59

the financial crisis. Did it how

39:01

did it affect your business? Yeah.

39:03

We actually fared very well because

39:05

At that point we were going

39:07

through a name change and I

39:09

had reduced our inventory so we

39:11

weren't sitting on millions and millions

39:14

of dollars of inventory that wasn't

39:16

moving. I also want to add

39:18

one thing to a little more

39:20

texture to the crash of 2008

39:22

and how we navigated that. The

39:24

way we got through it was

39:26

literally our employees were so loyal

39:28

and We had such an incredible

39:30

culture to our company that they

39:33

agreed to go for weeks without

39:35

pay for us to catch our

39:37

breath financially. And it was one

39:39

of the greatest highlights of my

39:41

career when I saw our employees

39:43

just say, we believe in you

39:45

when we want to support. and

39:47

we're not going to leave and

39:50

find a job some place else.

39:52

So, you know, being good to

39:54

your employees was really important for

39:56

us to survive that little era.

39:58

Yeah. But right around the same

40:00

time, I think you guys had

40:02

another problem on your hands because

40:04

you got sued, right? You got

40:07

sued by, I guess, by a

40:09

similar company that was called MD

40:11

Formulations. And basically they sue you

40:13

because your name, of course, was

40:15

MD Skin Care. And you're several

40:17

years in now, and then... they're

40:19

pointing out or they're saying that

40:21

your names are too similar. Right.

40:24

They slapped us with a lawsuit

40:26

and then they tried to buy

40:28

our brand. And so had they

40:30

been around longer than you guys?

40:32

A little bit longer and they

40:34

were owned by a company by

40:36

the name of Allergan. And so

40:38

in any case... The company itself

40:40

I think was going through some

40:43

trouble and they were sold and

40:45

they tried to buy us. It

40:47

was just, it was craziness and

40:49

we just decided we wanted out,

40:51

we weren't going to fight the

40:53

lawsuit, we were just going to

40:55

change our name. So you decided

40:57

not to fight the lawsuit? Yeah,

41:00

we settled with them. How long

41:02

did it take before you got

41:04

there? Because I think you were

41:06

decided you were going to fight

41:08

the lawsuit. Well initially we started

41:10

to go through depositions and it

41:12

was a total nightmare it was

41:14

a distraction it definitely took a

41:17

lot of time and energy away

41:19

from actually building our business but

41:21

we decided that we didn't want

41:23

to fight the lawsuit that we

41:25

were going to change the name

41:27

and yeah it was tough times

41:29

we had to make a decent-sized

41:31

settlement payment to MD formulations and

41:33

you know, pay the lawyers fees.

41:36

And so that year was really

41:38

tough for us. And Dennis and

41:40

I had a lot of back

41:42

and forth because he didn't want

41:44

to put his name on our

41:46

brand. But I convinced him. Tell

41:48

me, Dennis, why didn't you want

41:50

to put your name on the

41:53

brand? Because it was called MD

41:55

Skin Care up until 2010. Right.

41:57

And now it was going to

41:59

be called. Dr. Dennis Gross, skincare.

42:01

Tell me why you were reluctant.

42:03

Well, you know, because the last

42:05

name Gross is sort of a

42:07

disconnect with beauty, you might say.

42:10

And maybe I still was, you

42:12

know, thinking about my being ridiculed

42:14

in the school yard and junior

42:16

high school, you're gross, you know,

42:18

and it was a thing. I

42:20

did not know how that would

42:22

be received. It's not actually how

42:24

you pronounce my last name, to

42:27

be honest, but that's a different

42:29

story. Nonetheless, that was really the

42:31

reason. Yeah, he did. He was,

42:33

I had to pull rank on

42:35

him. I was CEO of the

42:37

company. I'm like, sorry, babe, we're

42:39

going for it. And it was,

42:41

it was a blessing in disguise

42:43

for sure. But I will tell

42:46

you, it would be kind of

42:48

humorous where I'd be like, you

42:50

know, sneaking around like Nordstrom and

42:52

walking through Safora and hearing people

42:54

saying like, oh my God, gross,

42:56

are you serious? When we come

42:58

back in just a moment, Dr.

43:00

Dennis Gross's skincare does a star

43:03

turn on Tiktok with a mask

43:05

that uses LED light. Stay with

43:07

us. I'm Guy Ross and you're

43:09

listening to How I Built This.

43:19

It takes a lot

43:21

to grow your business.

43:23

You've got to attract

43:25

audiences, score leads, manage

43:27

all the channels. It's

43:30

a lot of long

43:32

days and late nights.

43:34

But with breeze, Hubspots,

43:36

new AI tools, it's

43:38

never been easier to

43:41

be a marketer and

43:43

crush your goals. Are

43:45

you inspired by stories

43:47

on how I built

43:50

this? College, the alma

43:52

mater of Jamie Simenov,

43:54

founder of Ring, David

43:56

Heath, co-founder of Bombus,

43:58

and Mike Salguero, founder

44:01

of Butcher Box, whose

44:03

unique stories we've told

44:05

right here on how

44:07

I built this. Babson

44:09

equips you with the

44:12

skills. Sport cash plus,

44:14

terms and conditions apply.

44:24

Hey, welcome back to How I

44:26

Built This. I'm Guy Ross. So

44:28

it's 2010 and Dennis and Kerry

44:30

have a new name for their

44:32

brand and a new twist on

44:34

their most important product. We came

44:36

back in 2010 as Dr. Dennis

44:38

Gross. and we launched a new

44:40

version of our Alpha Beta Peel.

44:42

It was that extra strength Alpha

44:44

Beta Peel. And that was also

44:46

disruptive and risky. And Sephora was

44:48

a huge, huge, huge help to

44:50

us at that point because I

44:52

think they were scared too. I

44:54

think we were all a little

44:56

nervous. Are we doing the right

44:58

thing? We've got this one peel

45:00

that we've been selling for 10

45:02

years and it was our hero

45:05

skew and now we're going to

45:07

launch an extra strength version of

45:09

an acid peel to put on

45:11

your face. But I was just

45:13

seeing it in my practice, you

45:15

know, people saying bring it on.

45:17

You know, we know what the

45:19

original version is and if this

45:21

is going to be even better

45:23

and the two steps will save

45:25

me from getting blotchy. You know,

45:27

people went from being skeptics and

45:29

concerned to full, you know, all

45:31

out believers in what they can

45:33

see on their skin. So the

45:35

extra strength peel really was a

45:37

big hit and still to this

45:39

day, outperforms. Yeah. Tell me about,

45:41

so basically, you're focusing on the

45:44

brand and it's growing, and it's

45:46

steadily growing every year. I mean,

45:48

was there any moments? where you

45:50

start to think, okay, maybe we

45:52

should bring in some outside investors

45:54

to really supercharge the growth or,

45:56

because I know it would happen

45:58

later, but between 2010 and 2020

46:00

was. their conversations that you guys had

46:02

about that? You know, one thing

46:04

that I always tell an entrepreneur

46:07

or somebody that's starting out a

46:09

brand, like, take every single meeting.

46:11

Take all the meetings, because you

46:13

never know who you're going to meet

46:16

and what you're going to learn.

46:18

And so over the years, we had

46:20

quite a few meetings, wouldn't you

46:22

say, Dennis? Yes, we did. But

46:24

I must say, we reinvested every

46:26

dollar back into the business in

46:29

those years. So we had the

46:31

cash flow and we had the

46:33

revenues to support our growth. We,

46:35

instead of taking an investor and

46:37

taking money out of the company,

46:39

we continued to live off the

46:41

income of my dermatology practice and

46:44

just believed in the brand and

46:46

reinvested every day. And we didn't

46:48

take a salary. Neither of us took

46:50

a salary for 20 years. And Dennis,

46:52

you were still practicing and you were

46:54

still seeing patients every day. Absolutely.

46:56

First of all, I needed to.

46:58

Number two, it's what I love.

47:01

And number three, it was actually

47:03

in tandem with the skincare brand.

47:05

So I maintain my practice to

47:07

this day because it really is

47:09

still what we call the living lab.

47:11

Yeah, it probably became difficult to

47:14

get an appointment there at a

47:16

certain point because your name was

47:18

on the brand and shops. And

47:20

so, you know, one thing kind

47:22

of, whether that was intentional or

47:24

not, it kind of bolsters the

47:26

other. He had some pretty frantic

47:28

years, frantic days, long, long

47:30

hours. Yeah, I bet. Tell me

47:32

about moving into like light technology,

47:34

right? I mean, basically you

47:36

developed a plastic mask with

47:38

LED light to treat skin

47:40

and the same went totally

47:42

viral on TikTok a few

47:45

years ago. How did that

47:47

technology even start to emerge? It

47:49

was a procedure done in my

47:51

practice, right? LED is, you know,

47:53

something that dermatologist's do. What does

47:56

it do for your skin? Two

47:58

major things. Number one. It stimulates

48:00

collagen. How does LED light do

48:02

that? It's so crazy. It is

48:05

crazy, but it is absolutely true.

48:07

There's receptors in the skin in

48:10

the cells that produce the collagen,

48:12

the fibroblast cell, and it turns

48:14

on the production of collagen. It

48:17

stimulates them. And as we get

48:19

older, the amount of collagen we

48:22

make diminishes. So LED, in my

48:24

practice, was a big winner. Number

48:26

two, it works on acne. The

48:29

two biggest components, really of dermatology.

48:31

were addressed by a treatment in

48:34

my office. So one of the

48:36

main things we do is bringing

48:38

what we do in the dermatology

48:41

clinic to the home of the

48:43

consumer, there was an opportunity. And

48:45

it was the impetus to say,

48:48

let's create an at home device.

48:50

And that's what the LED device,

48:53

that's the backstory. But I want

48:55

to point out that our very

48:57

first device was actually a facial

49:00

steamer. We launched a steamer back

49:02

in, I think, 2012, and it

49:05

was very, very popular for many

49:07

years and it showed us that

49:09

there was a hunger for devices.

49:12

And the other piece of it

49:14

that is so exciting from my

49:16

perspective is the tools that our

49:19

teams use. when they go out

49:21

in the field and they do

49:24

facial events at stores and at

49:26

spas, we use these devices on

49:28

the consumer. And it creates theater

49:31

and excitement and it's really, really

49:33

fun to be able to offer

49:36

this to clients to be able

49:38

to use in their home. But

49:40

the thing about LED is you

49:43

have to use it daily in

49:45

order to see the results. And

49:47

if you do, the results are

49:50

spectacular. But to get the consumer

49:52

to actually stay on the plan,

49:55

it has to be convenient. Right,

49:57

so three minutes a day was

49:59

the game changer and we got

50:02

results and it's FDA cleared because

50:04

it works. And some people just

50:07

are concerned about the area around

50:09

the eyes aging. So that's another

50:11

device. And now the newest one

50:14

is the lip. And, you know,

50:16

trends, as I see in my

50:18

practice, is that lips are just

50:21

huge in terms of what people

50:23

want and it's just something that

50:26

is part of our culture now,

50:28

larger lips, people coming in for

50:30

lip plumpering with fillers and injectables.

50:33

So there was a trend we

50:35

saw early and that's where we

50:38

brought that product to market. All

50:40

right. So around 2020. Either around

50:42

the time of the pandemic or

50:45

before, you bring in outside capital

50:47

a private equity group buys a

50:50

minority stake in the brand. Tell

50:52

me about the decision to do

50:54

that. What was the thinking was

50:57

we'll take this money and we'll

50:59

do what with it? So I'm

51:01

going to back up and just

51:04

give you a little, you know,

51:06

little story leading up to this.

51:09

So our business is growing and

51:11

I wanted to focus on international

51:13

expansion. And so by 2018, 2019,

51:16

now I'm starting to feel like,

51:18

oh my God, I actually don't

51:21

need capital. We're successful, we're profitable,

51:23

we're making money each year, but

51:25

I need a board of directors,

51:28

I need some partners to really

51:30

help me figure out how to

51:32

really take this brand and turn

51:35

it into a global force. So

51:37

we hired an investment banker and

51:40

we met with multiple, multiple private

51:42

equity groups and strategics and we

51:44

kind of fell in love with

51:47

a group called Main Post Partners

51:49

based in San Francisco and we

51:52

went through the whole deal process

51:54

and we were getting close to

51:56

signing the The deal was off.

51:59

They pulled the deal. Stores closed

52:01

and it was like... Oh my

52:03

God, you know, we thought it

52:06

was bad enough going through like

52:08

9-11 and then, you know, 2008

52:11

crash. The pandemic was just, like,

52:13

shocking. It was shocking. And Dennis'

52:15

practice closed, Sapporo's doors closed, every

52:18

spot closed, and we were sitting

52:20

looking at each other, thinking, oh

52:23

my... God, I think I was

52:25

laying on the floor thinking, I

52:27

can't believe this, I can't believe

52:30

this, are we going to lose

52:32

our company? So what did you

52:35

guys do? How did you handle

52:37

it? Basically, we just rolled up

52:39

our sleeves and went all in

52:42

in the digital space and we

52:44

put Dennis on Instagram. And we

52:46

did master classes for our clients

52:49

so that we could stay in

52:51

touch with them and make sure

52:54

that they were okay. And about

52:56

three months into the pandemic, I

52:58

got a phone call from Maine

53:01

Post and we want back in.

53:03

We figured out a way to

53:06

make the deal happen. And so

53:08

we got the deal done in

53:10

June of 2020. A couple years

53:13

after that, you got an acquisition

53:15

offer, which you would then accept

53:17

from Shiseido. to buy you guys

53:20

out. $450 million. Amazing. Exit. I

53:22

mean, I imagine by that point

53:25

you felt, all right, we've been

53:27

doing this for 23 years more.

53:29

It's time to kind of enjoy

53:32

the fruits of our labor, I

53:34

guess. Well, we wanted to find

53:37

just the right partner with a

53:39

company that would respect our culture,

53:41

respect the brand that we built,

53:44

and that was Shissato. And we're

53:46

still with them, by the way.

53:48

We're still full-time and I still

53:51

create the products and it's been

53:53

a great journey. Yeah, obviously a

53:56

huge brand and the ability to

53:58

kind of super scale thing. like

54:00

globally. That was one of the

54:03

key, you know, timing factors. We

54:05

actually in 2023 launched into Sephora

54:08

Europe, so I think we opened

54:10

something like 17 countries in a

54:12

period of like three months. It

54:15

was crazy and having Shiseido support

54:17

us with talent and with experience

54:20

has been incredible. And so now

54:22

you're probably committed for a few

54:24

years to stay with the brand.

54:27

We have a three-year contract and

54:29

I don't know what's going to

54:31

happen but for right now it's

54:34

been wonderful. They're true partners, you

54:36

know. Yeah. This is still a

54:39

changing world in terms of skin

54:41

care. Going full circle, going back

54:43

to the day where skin care

54:46

was just a moisturizer, you know.

54:48

the future I think is absolutely

54:51

incredibly exciting and our pipeline I

54:53

think is really exciting to me.

54:55

I still want to create and

54:58

innovate. When you think about how,

55:00

you know, about the journey of

55:02

building this and how much do

55:05

you do to the work you

55:07

put in and the time and

55:10

how much do you think had

55:12

to do with luck and timing?

55:16

I don't think it was luck

55:18

to be honest with you. I

55:20

think it was really a lot

55:23

of discipline, a lot of creativity,

55:25

curiosity, just like seeking out the

55:27

white space and disrupting. And results.

55:29

You know, if you really are

55:32

distinctive in your, what you're bringing

55:34

to the consumer and to the

55:36

industry, then I think that people

55:38

will... support you. People will buy

55:41

your product and that is top

55:43

line for me is the results.

55:45

Nowadays the consumer wants to see

55:48

the difference and we have consistently

55:50

done that and that's what I'm

55:52

most proud of. and I think

55:54

we earned it. That's Dennis and

55:57

Kerry Gross, co-founders of Dr. Dennis

55:59

Gross skincare. By the way, that

56:01

LED face mask that went viral,

56:03

it doesn't just look like it's

56:06

from outer space. The technology was

56:08

actually developed by NASA. NASA thought

56:10

that LED light might help speed

56:12

up healing of cuts and scrap

56:15

when astronauts were in zero gravity.

56:17

They didn't end up using the

56:19

technology in space, but they did

56:21

end up funding research that led

56:24

to some of the first medical

56:26

LED light devices back here on

56:28

Earth. Hey, thanks so much for

56:30

listening to the show this week.

56:33

Please make sure to click the

56:35

follow button on your podcast app

56:37

so you never miss a new

56:40

episode of the show. And if

56:42

you're interested in insights, ideas, and

56:44

lessons from some of the world's

56:46

greatest entrepreneurs. Please sign up for

56:49

my newsletter at Guy ross.com or

56:51

on sub-stack. This episode was researched

56:53

and produced by Alex Chung and

56:55

edited by Niva Grant with music

56:58

composed by Remptine Arablui. Our Engineers

57:00

were Patrick Murray and Gilly Murray.

57:02

Sam Paulsen, Kerry Thompson, Catherine Sifer,

57:04

John Isabella, and Elaine Coates. I'm

57:07

Guy Ross and you've been listening

57:09

to How I Built This. If

57:11

you like how I built this,

57:13

you can listen early and add

57:16

free right now by joining Wondery

57:18

Plus in the Wondery app or

57:20

on Apple podcasts. Prime members can

57:22

listen ad free on Amazon Music.

57:25

Before you go, tell us about

57:27

yourself by filling out a short

57:29

survey at wonderie.com/survey. Being an actual

57:32

royal is never about finding your

57:34

happy ending, but the worst part

57:36

is, if they step out of

57:38

line or fall in love with

57:41

the wrong person, it changes the

57:43

course of history. I'm Arisha Skidmore

57:45

Williams, and I'm Brooks different. We've

57:47

been telling the stories of the

57:50

rich and famous on the hit

57:52

Wonderie show, Even The Rich. and

57:54

talking about the latest celebrity news

57:56

on Rich and Daily. We're going

57:59

all over the world on our

58:01

new show, Even the Royals. We'll

58:03

be diving headfirst into the lives

58:05

of the world's kings, queens, and

58:08

all the wannabees in their orbit

58:10

throughout history. Think succession meets the

58:12

crown meets real life. We're going

58:14

to pull back the gilded curtain

58:17

and show how royal status might

58:19

be bright and shiny, but it

58:21

comes at the expense of, well,

58:24

everything else. Like your freedom, your

58:26

privacy, and sometimes even your head.

58:28

Follow Even the Royals on the

58:30

Wonderie app or wherever you get your podcasts.

58:32

You can listen to Even the Royals early

58:34

and ad-free right now by joining Wonderie Plus.