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1:11

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1:13

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1:16

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1:18

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1:20

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1:22

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1:25

the conversations can get a little heavy.

1:27

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1:29

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1:32

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1:34

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1:36

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1:38

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1:41

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1:43

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1:59

back to how I quit alcohol.

2:02

Today in the studio I'm here

2:04

with Hain Cooper. Hain is an

2:06

awesome musician, beautiful human, he's 33

2:08

years old and as of New

2:10

Year's Day, 2025. He is one

2:12

year sober. Hain, how are you today?

2:14

Very good and yourself. I'm very

2:16

good. It's interesting here

2:18

in the studio. We're crowded around one

2:20

mic. I feel like we're one

2:23

of those old country bands that

2:25

you're out around that one microphone.

2:27

Like we should be in, oh brother,

2:29

how us out? Oh good. Tell us a

2:31

bit about you, where you grow

2:34

up, where you're from, your

2:36

background, and the first time you

2:38

had a drink. Okay, so I

2:41

am from Milton Olive Dollar on

2:43

the South Coast. Nice. Three hours

2:45

drive south of Sydney. My dad

2:48

was a fashion designer. He had

2:50

a fashion label called Cooper

2:52

Street Clothing, which you might

2:54

have remembered from back in

2:57

the day. a pretty unusual

2:59

family upbringing and

3:01

a really like quiet

3:04

loving mom and a

3:06

very out there dad Salvador

3:09

Dali type vibe. I grew

3:11

up in a really

3:13

beautiful little small

3:15

country town and just

3:18

had pretty nice childhood

3:20

really to a certain degree

3:23

and I just love

3:25

music always always been

3:28

pretty indulgent with

3:30

just everything with food.

3:32

I'm a tourist too, so maybe

3:34

that's a tourist thing.

3:37

And surfing and all that

3:39

stuff. And so I think

3:41

that really played into the

3:44

first time I drank, which

3:46

I can actually very specifically

3:49

remember was at a

3:51

party in my teenage years

3:53

and I just drowned. 17,

3:56

so I was actually older than

3:58

most people when they... when

4:00

they drank properly for the

4:02

first time. I didn't drink

4:04

until later. And my parents

4:06

always drank Cooper's red. My

4:08

mom always drank Cooper's red,

4:10

which is pretty strong beer.

4:12

And so that was my

4:14

randomly first choice of alcohol.

4:16

And I drank like six

4:18

in 45 minutes. And I

4:20

was like, this is the

4:22

best thing ever. And I

4:24

had no history or any

4:26

idea of it, but I

4:28

was just like this feels

4:30

the who God And I

4:32

literally had six Just back-to-back

4:34

boom boom and I was

4:36

like I've never felt better

4:38

in my whole life went

4:40

to some random party danced

4:42

with some stupid like real

4:45

cheap strobe lights in the

4:47

corner of the room with

4:49

no one else on the

4:51

dance floor just I can't

4:53

remember what the music was

4:55

I can't remember anything all

4:57

I remember was it was

4:59

like the best half an

5:01

hour of my life and

5:03

then it was this the

5:05

worst experience ever and I

5:07

was out the back spewing

5:09

my guts up like just

5:11

with you know everyone putting

5:13

their hand on my back

5:15

just like oh here he's

5:17

he's he's made it Then

5:19

I went home. Wow, that

5:21

was my first experience strange.

5:23

Jesus, is that what sort

5:25

of kid were you? Were

5:27

you quiet sort of a

5:29

kid? Pretty shy. And then

5:31

I kind of grew into

5:33

more of more like comfortability

5:35

through music later when I

5:37

actually started making music and

5:39

like that became my identity.

5:41

Yeah. What did you like

5:43

about the alcohol when you

5:45

first had it and that

5:47

made you want to have

5:49

six in a rose so

5:51

quickly in 45 minutes? The

5:53

feeling, the actual like physical

5:55

side of it and the

5:58

taste. the taste

6:00

too. I was

6:02

like I like beer this is

6:04

nice and but yeah mainly just

6:06

the the feeling of I

6:09

actually had like a feeling of euphoria that

6:11

first time. It was

6:13

really interesting because I don't think you

6:15

know I feel like I have felt

6:17

like that from drinking after that.

6:20

There's another feeling that I like

6:22

from drinking but the very first time

6:24

it was like more than just the usual

6:26

thing with drinking which is that you feel

6:28

very disconnected and for a lot of people

6:30

that's a release. I actually felt

6:32

like some kind of euphoria

6:35

from it. Well essentially you

6:37

mainlined it didn't you? So you're probably

6:39

yeah it's like all so intense.

6:41

Yeah and that was like a

6:43

reflection of who I was and

6:45

still am. It's just

6:47

that I'm redirecting that now. The

6:50

intensity. The intensity. Yeah. All

6:52

or nothing. All or nothing. Yeah.

6:55

So when you started drinking again did

6:57

you drink quickly again after that or

7:00

were you still remembering that the hideousness

7:02

of it? No I

7:04

definitely drank quickly again but

7:06

like that was the classic thing in the

7:08

teenage years you know you go to a party

7:10

and then you binge drink and you drink a

7:12

lot and there's like a cultural

7:14

element to it I feel like when you're

7:16

in those years with drinking it's like something

7:18

that you watch American Pie and you watch

7:20

all those movies and you see that kind

7:23

of like culture and you're like ha ha

7:25

I'm doing this I'm cool. So

7:28

there was that element to it but

7:30

then there was also the side

7:32

of I like the taste and

7:35

I did like the feeling as well

7:37

but then it wasn't till

7:39

later on when I was playing

7:41

music all the time that I

7:43

started to really like alcohol

7:45

separate to the culture. I

7:47

was like this is

7:50

really nice to play music

7:52

drunk because

7:54

of what

7:57

I wasn't aware of at the time which was

7:59

my deep. of judgment, but then I

8:01

also did enjoy the feeling as well

8:03

of alcohol. Yeah, and that's when

8:05

it really became like, okay, I'm

8:08

drinking again tonight, I'm drinking

8:10

again tonight, I'm drinking again

8:12

tonight, I'm drinking again tonight,

8:14

I'm drinking every day. Wow. Yeah.

8:16

Tell me about that deep fear of

8:18

judgment. Well, that's definitely something

8:20

that I've realized now is

8:23

actually completely internal. That's what

8:25

has been so good about

8:27

not drinking is giving me

8:29

space to... actually reflect on who

8:31

I am and my deep triggers and

8:34

all the way I'm wired. All

8:36

that subconscious stuff because that's what

8:38

essentially that was is that I

8:40

don't know maybe I just think

8:42

it's actually just the world that we

8:44

live in and even more now of

8:47

like you have to be something and

8:49

if you're a musician you have

8:51

to be like this and if you're

8:53

not like this then you're not

8:55

going to be successful you're

8:57

not going to be... special.

9:00

That's what has been

9:02

so good about not drinking

9:04

is it's given me the

9:06

time to actually like

9:08

work on just accepting

9:11

myself and just being

9:13

like this is where I'm at

9:15

right now and this is how I'm

9:18

currently wired in terms

9:20

of like my thoughts

9:22

and emotions emotional reactions

9:25

but overall, like my

9:27

goal now is just to like be as

9:29

real as I can for as long as

9:31

I can every day. Yeah, that's the beautiful

9:33

thing, isn't it? I think because what

9:35

happens is there's a pressure in

9:37

us all that we've all got something

9:40

that's kind of weighing on us and

9:42

few it was that deep fear of

9:44

judgment and then the alcohol gives us

9:46

relief from something that's so heavy by

9:49

big, even if it is self-imposed. And

9:51

then of course it's natural we don't want

9:53

to feel those things. So when we

9:55

kind of start to figure out, it gives

9:57

me relief from that, but then we don't...

10:00

realize that with all that bearing

10:02

of down of that we don't

10:04

actually get to sit with it

10:06

and tackle it head-on and and

10:08

also to be with that discomfort

10:10

and do what you have to

10:12

do to overcome it or learn

10:14

to befriend it or whatever it

10:16

is and that's what that is

10:18

the beauty about quitting alcohol so

10:20

that you get to sit with

10:23

all those demons. Yeah. It's uncomfortable

10:25

as that seems at first but

10:27

you know I get to see

10:29

it all. That's where the freedom

10:31

is. Yeah, like, you know what

10:33

I mean? Like, actually, you know,

10:35

meeting those demons and just being

10:37

like, okay, I'm just gonna observe

10:39

this because I actually am in

10:41

my right mind right now. Like,

10:43

why do I feel so uncomfortable

10:46

right now? Why do I feel

10:48

so afraid or like angry? You

10:50

know, all the emotional things. It

10:52

was just huge, like, to be

10:54

honest with you, what happened in,

10:56

was 2023, mid year. Like, like,

10:58

I just been heading towards... my

11:00

first proper crisis in my life

11:02

like of complete crash. My management

11:04

company called me and they were

11:06

like okay so you know that

11:09

record deal with the new label

11:11

that you signed with finally getting

11:13

out of your old one that

11:15

you weren't happy with. They've put

11:17

out your record but they don't

11:19

want to take the option. So

11:21

for me it was just like

11:23

I've done so much stuff to

11:25

get into a good position and

11:27

now that's just completely finished now.

11:30

and like all my back catalog

11:32

was with them. So it was

11:34

just like, oh, thanks for nothing.

11:36

Okay, so that hurt real bad.

11:38

And then my management company were

11:40

like a month later. Yeah, so

11:42

we actually, we're done too. And

11:44

then even like a month before

11:46

that was like the agent and

11:48

with the whole COVID situation, and

11:50

then in my marriage, like. just

11:53

I was having a lot of

11:55

problems too and they were all

11:57

caused by myself and that was

11:59

a huge thing was just like

12:01

consciously. I'd just been kind of

12:03

acting and living unconsciously to a

12:05

certain degree up until that point

12:07

and like my wife had been

12:09

telling me you know this is

12:11

what's hurting me about you all

12:13

this time but I was just

12:15

completely unable to ever fix or

12:17

alter it because I didn't actually

12:20

kind of know what was up

12:22

from down and then I went to

12:24

the doctor but I went to a really

12:26

special doctor and they told

12:28

me straight up. Because I

12:31

had like a bunch of heart

12:33

things which is caused by

12:35

anxiety from my life

12:37

falling apart and This

12:39

doctor was like I'm gonna

12:42

be straight with you right

12:44

now All of this stuff that

12:46

you're feeling physically in

12:48

your body is 100% being

12:51

caused by you in your mind

12:53

And I was like okay, so

12:55

what do I do? and they were

12:57

like well I have to be

12:59

very careful with this kind

13:02

of information, but I think

13:04

that you should look into

13:06

Joe dispenser. Oh, I love Joe. Yeah.

13:08

And that was like a huge thing,

13:11

so I was like, okay. And I

13:13

just went and watched a

13:15

bunch of Joe dispenser videos,

13:18

and I never had it

13:20

explained so rationally what

13:22

I needed to know about emotions

13:24

and thoughts. and how we're wired

13:26

and how we can change it.

13:28

So then from that point on it

13:31

was like that was a year and

13:33

a half ago. I was like so deep

13:35

into that new knowledge and I

13:37

have been rewiring ever since

13:39

and the so the first six

13:41

months was just like a

13:43

crash course of trying to understand

13:46

that and then I got to

13:48

the end of the year in 2023

13:50

and I was like okay well I

13:52

really need to stop drinking out

13:54

too. be able to have

13:56

more space for this

13:58

information. So fascinating. So

14:01

how much were you drinking towards

14:03

the end or before you say

14:05

got into Joe? Not as much

14:07

as I had been earlier on,

14:10

but still, I don't know, it

14:12

was almost like towards the end

14:14

when I got into Joe and

14:16

stopped drinking. It wasn't like I

14:19

was drinking outrageous amounts, but when

14:21

I did drink, I really changed.

14:23

Like it was like, oh, personality.

14:25

Yeah, it just really brought out

14:28

like this super disrespect for like

14:30

arrogance and Yeah, it was just

14:32

really I just became very unpleasant.

14:34

Wow, you know, I can't imagine

14:37

you being like that. It's so

14:39

funny like when you see people

14:41

especially when they're sober, but any

14:43

interactions have happened you over the

14:46

years when you've played with Ash

14:48

and things like that you've always

14:50

been so A polite and friendly,

14:52

a nice human. It's scary, isn't

14:55

it, when it brings out that

14:57

other side of view? Like we

14:59

were talking Ash Shadow. It brings

15:01

the count out in all of

15:04

us, isn't it? Yeah. Okay, the

15:06

shadow? Yeah, no, no, totally. But

15:08

that was, you know, like, especially

15:10

for you guys, like, who I

15:13

projected, obviously, was a certain side

15:15

of myself, especially because Ash being

15:17

who he is in the music

15:19

industry, all the other musos are

15:22

on their best behavior. And you

15:24

don't even realize you're doing it.

15:26

You know what I mean? Like...

15:28

It's true though, we save a

15:31

lot of that behaviour for our

15:33

loved ones. Yeah, right? The people's

15:35

doors. Yeah, because that's the real

15:37

comfortable thing. And that's something that

15:40

I also observe in other people.

15:42

And that's something that I really

15:44

look for for close friends now

15:46

is like watching how people are.

15:49

Yeah, behind closed doors. And watching

15:51

myself, because behind closed doors are

15:53

super defensive. Wow, thanks for sharing.

15:55

Speak to share this stuff. Yeah.

15:58

So you're super defensive. Super react.

16:00

super fixed in my thoughts because

16:02

I thought that my reality was

16:04

this was the biggest thing

16:07

that Joe dispenser did for

16:09

me was it made me realize

16:11

that reality is not fixed

16:13

and that my perception of

16:16

reality up until that point

16:18

was shaped by my upbringing

16:21

and by everything around me

16:23

like society and so I grew

16:25

up with a very abundant

16:27

dad. and a very scarce-minded mom,

16:29

but I was always around my

16:32

mom because my dad was always working.

16:34

So then being a musician and

16:36

like already it's pretty scarce like

16:38

industry, I was just always

16:41

terrified about money. And so that was

16:43

like a huge thing for realizing that

16:45

I could like rewire my energy

16:47

to think more abundantly financially

16:50

and stuff like that. But yeah, like

16:52

the biggest thing before that

16:54

information was, if anybody, you

16:56

know, threatened my... perception of

16:58

reality, especially you know in

17:00

my relationship I was always just like

17:03

super argumentative and reactive about

17:05

it. Whereas now it's like, okay let

17:07

me take on that idea because I

17:09

realize now that everything can be

17:12

any way we really want it to be.

17:14

It's the same thing with drinking. It's like

17:16

you're no fun when you're not

17:18

when you're not drinking like all

17:20

these ideas that you form about

17:22

yourself. Through drinking when it becomes

17:25

part of your identity. So true. Yeah,

17:27

that's right. And if we don't challenge

17:29

those thoughts too, it's all about

17:31

challenging the thoughts and not, yeah,

17:33

realizing it's not fixed that reality.

17:36

All about that. Yeah. You can't

17:38

change unless you start to challenge

17:40

those things too. I'd realize as

17:42

soon as we think things were

17:44

fixed, then we're stuck. And that's the

17:46

victim thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. It goes

17:48

to show too how alcohol just keeps

17:51

us small and it keeps us stuck

17:53

in that way. Even what you're saying.

17:55

and the anxiety. I was talking

17:57

to someone the other day who's just

17:59

being... anti-depresses, which I know they have

18:01

their place and they do, yeah, helpful.

18:04

But for Christ's sake, get off alcohol

18:06

first, at least give yourself three months

18:08

off the alcohol first, because it's such

18:10

a depressant, and it creates such anxiety

18:13

in the body because of the hormonal

18:15

reaction from it. So if we at

18:17

least take that up first and then

18:19

see, and if you need it, you

18:21

need it for sure. But it just

18:24

keeps the so stuck and so stuck

18:26

in this loop. Yeah, okay, so you're

18:28

delving into Joe. This is also what

18:30

I love to... I mean like it's

18:33

not about sometimes just cutting the alcohol

18:35

but sometimes it's about just introducing new

18:37

things practices new ways of thinking so

18:39

that we could start to edge out

18:41

the alcohol yeah rather than just bang

18:44

so tell me though what brought you

18:46

to bang what got you to that

18:48

point where you're like with alcohol yeah

18:50

just the classic news of like six

18:53

months later after all that stuff kind

18:55

of happened yeah something you were thinking

18:57

about doing or was it just a

18:59

reactive I think I had been thinking

19:01

about it. And like in December, that

19:04

whole month, I'd really changed. Like I

19:06

really, I was like, okay, from now

19:08

on, I'm waking up, I'm going to

19:10

do, I'm going to run on the

19:13

beach every morning. Like I had all

19:15

these new things in my life that

19:17

I was like, this is happening now.

19:19

And even with my career, like I

19:22

took on the social media thing, I

19:24

was like, I'm not going to complain

19:26

about it anymore, I'm just going to

19:28

try and tell my story and tell

19:30

my story on my story on it.

19:33

in an authentic way. So that was

19:35

like another thing that I did that

19:37

month and then I was doing all

19:39

these things and I was still kind

19:42

of drinking every now and then. I

19:44

got to New Year's Eve and I

19:46

was just like, I woke up the

19:48

next morning and I was just like,

19:50

I think actually you're right because that

19:53

month of doing all the other stuff,

19:55

it made me realize that I didn't

19:57

need alcohol. And so I was like,

19:59

I'm going to completely get rid of

20:02

this. I was just doing a podcast

20:04

episode about this the other day for

20:06

New Year's Day just for it might

20:08

have been the New Year's Eve one.

20:10

Either or. And also talking to my

20:13

group about... Not being too hard on

20:15

yourself, but thinking about what's worked really

20:17

well, what you'd like to continue doing.

20:19

So I think in that December, you're

20:22

saying to realize, okay, the running's feeling

20:24

good and the Joe dispenser stuff is

20:26

feeling good, I want to continue doing

20:28

more of that. And there's one thing,

20:31

blocking that, perhaps, alcohol. Yeah. So what

20:33

happens? So you got trashed on news

20:35

evil, you had a few drinks, news

20:37

Eve, and then just decided that's it.

20:39

Yeah, just woke up, and I just

20:42

woke up. Yeah, that was the whole

20:44

that was all all of this year,

20:46

and it's just been a huge year

20:48

for me Did you declare it to

20:51

have people? Yeah, right I did. I

20:53

was I was like I was drawing

20:55

the line and I was that guy

20:57

I was like on a drink Straight

20:59

up. Yeah, you know, you've got to

21:02

own it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ash was

21:04

the same. Yeah, like there's been so

21:06

many times where I've talked to people

21:08

about it in the last year One

21:11

particular gig I was playing, someone that

21:13

was working at the venue, like this

21:15

really nice older lady, I was talking

21:17

to her about, she's like, oh yeah,

21:19

raw dogging reality. I was like, that

21:22

is the best description. You're just raw

21:24

dogging reality. And I always remember that.

21:26

And any time I talk to like

21:28

anybody else, you know, because now the

21:31

good thing is as well, like, even

21:33

a childhood friend of mine, like he's

21:35

stopped drinking now. And it was a

21:37

big thing for him to come to

21:39

me to be like, so what's this

21:42

all about? You know what I mean?

21:44

Because that's the thing for me, whenever

21:46

I'm trying to help anyone else around

21:48

myself with this whole drinking thing, it's

21:51

like exactly what we're talking about. It's

21:53

so much bigger than just drinking. I'm

21:55

like, dude, this actually has nothing to

21:57

do with drinking. The world is changing

22:00

so much right now. That in itself

22:02

is overwhelming. Where are we going? What

22:04

is happening? What is real? We don't

22:06

even know, like, you know, AI, that's

22:08

a whole other conversation. Like, yeah, we're

22:11

just in such a wild time, no

22:13

wonder you're drinking. And not only that,

22:15

all your childhood stuff, all the traumas,

22:17

all the conditioning, all those things, all

22:20

those fears, all the fears, all the

22:22

fears, all the fears. It's really about

22:24

the fears, who isn't in dealing with

22:26

that stuff. Yeah. To me, like, yeah,

22:28

alcohol's alcohol with what's causing you to

22:31

want to drink in the first place.

22:33

Deal with those fears, those deep fear

22:35

of judgment or whatever it's there that's

22:37

there that's there for you that's there

22:40

for you. That's the key to quitting

22:42

the alcohol, which is fucking hard. So

22:44

hard. That's the hardest bit, right? Especially

22:46

after a lifetime of, for most of

22:48

us, having no idea about what's making

22:51

us act certain ways. My whole life

22:53

now every day is just, I'm having

22:55

such a good time just watching myself.

22:57

Look at the way you're being right

23:00

now. You know what I mean? And

23:02

it's like, why am I being like

23:04

that? And then you ask those questions

23:06

and then it's like, oh, that's because

23:09

of that. Yes. Thing that happened when

23:11

I was five years old. Yes. Or

23:13

whatever, or 14, and I've just been

23:15

playing along. So automatic. And then that's

23:17

the thing we're drinking too, is like,

23:20

that's the whole thing to like be

23:22

aware of and you've been drinking for

23:24

a while is the habit of it.

23:26

Smoking was another one for me. I

23:29

quit smoking too. Yeah, smoking was what

23:31

like, well, cigarettes or no one? Just,

23:33

oh, both. Yeah. But like, cigarettes was

23:35

really like a thing for me. No

23:37

matter how drunk I was, I was

23:40

always like, this is so bad, why

23:42

am I doing this? But I loved

23:44

it as well. It was a real

23:46

love hate thing for me. No one

23:49

in my family smoked. Yeah. Just imagine

23:51

your dad being this sort of flamboyant

23:53

smoke, I don't know why I thought

23:55

that, right? No, no, it's just. Yeah,

23:57

it was just from music industry. Yeah.

24:00

So you got rid of that too? Got

24:02

rid of that first. Tell me about that

24:04

sense of the deep fear of judgment.

24:06

And so obviously that's still there,

24:08

so you've got the other booze,

24:10

it's still there. Yeah. Tell me

24:12

about when you're seeing that, when

24:15

you're actually seeing that, starting to

24:17

play out. It's really blind, it's a

24:19

real blind spot for me. That's the

24:21

thing, like, it's almost like even now

24:24

talking about it, it's hard to see

24:26

how it affects me and drives me

24:28

still, but I guess. It's also

24:30

helped me in a way because it's

24:32

made me work so hard on music

24:35

and There's a perfectionism

24:37

to it, but now I'm

24:40

realizing that actually the perfectionism

24:42

is not so important and

24:45

music is best when it's just

24:47

like Someone feeling their fit

24:49

their feelings. Yeah, you know what

24:51

I mean? Yeah, and not worrying about

24:54

How that mixed level is or

24:56

but I think it's just like for

24:58

me, I just think it's like a

25:01

really conditioning thing in the world

25:03

that we live in, especially from

25:05

school, of you know, you have to do

25:07

these this way and you have to do

25:10

that that way and if you don't do

25:12

it that way, you're going to get

25:14

in trouble. So that's always

25:16

pretty much been the subconscious

25:19

drive for me to present

25:21

myself a certain way in acceptance

25:23

of other people. But yeah, now

25:25

I'm also lucky to have... had

25:28

pretty rebellious parents too so neither

25:30

of them went to uni they're

25:32

all about breaking the rules

25:34

that don't make sense you know

25:36

yeah which I love yeah and

25:38

quitting alcohol is a bit like

25:41

breaking the rules sepsy it's a

25:43

rebellious but it is a rebellious act

25:45

yeah it's you realized what

25:47

talked about this in Monash's

25:49

book that's just come out

25:51

about alcohol but in that

25:53

just saying how I realized after a

25:55

point with alcohol that I was just conforming where

25:57

I thought I was being so rebellious to drink.

26:00

But actually all you're doing is

26:02

dimming your power. You know, when

26:04

you're like really healthy and clear

26:06

what everyone else is doing. Because

26:08

you're so much less powerful when

26:10

you're drunk, that's the whole thing.

26:12

And that's, and that what a

26:14

great illusion that they created for

26:16

us, they, whoever they is. But

26:18

like, you know, like that you're

26:20

being rebellious when you're drunk, but

26:22

actually all you're doing is dimming

26:24

your power. You know, when you're

26:26

like really healthy and clear-minded and

26:28

undriven by fear. You're a big

26:30

threat. You're a bloody beast then.

26:32

You're a base. You're a base

26:34

mode. Yeah, you're in base mode.

26:36

It's like, oh, you want me

26:38

to do that? Well, guess what?

26:40

I don't feel like it. Yeah.

26:42

I don't have to do anything

26:44

I don't want to, which is

26:47

pretty bad for a system that

26:49

thrives on order. Yes. But that

26:51

whole thing that makes us so

26:53

small we don't realize that we

26:55

think it's making us big but

26:57

it's not. Yeah. What's going to

26:59

make you big is to sit

27:01

and deal with your fears head

27:03

on and start to question all

27:05

this stuff. Yeah. And look what

27:07

I'm really getting out of this

27:09

conversation and I think for people

27:11

listening if you can try and

27:13

pinpoint your fear and and pinpoint

27:15

that is by knowing or asking

27:17

yourself what does alcohol give you

27:19

relief from? Oh yeah. That's the

27:21

first. thing you can ask yourself,

27:23

right? And then if you can

27:25

get pen paper out and just

27:27

start to journal on this, what

27:29

does give me relief from? What

27:31

am I afraid of in that?

27:34

And it could be all sorts

27:36

of things. For you, Haynes, that

27:38

the fear of judgment for other

27:40

people, it's like uncomfortable in social

27:42

situations. They don't want to feel

27:44

unloved or not fitting in. Okay,

27:46

and then from there, well, why

27:48

do I feel like that? But

27:50

where does that fear come from?

27:52

And why is that? And then

27:54

from there, I guess it's asking,

27:56

okay, well, how do I work

27:58

with that? So that the alcohol's

28:00

not, otherwise the alcohol just ends

28:02

up running your life just as

28:04

much as the fear does. Yeah,

28:06

just one after the other, right?

28:08

And that's... life changing. Yeah. Right.

28:10

We start to realize I don't

28:12

have to. It's just a fear

28:14

anyway. Yeah. Which is just a

28:16

reality that we've created back to

28:18

the Joe dispenser. Yeah, yeah. The

28:20

crazy thing for me has been

28:23

through not drinking and everything that

28:25

I've done over the last year,

28:27

especially with music. Well, obviously, like

28:29

the first thing that happens when

28:31

you don't drink is that you

28:33

have more awareness. So then you

28:35

can actually start to, as you

28:37

say, look at yourself and be

28:39

like, person behind all of those

28:41

acts that you were doing when

28:43

you weren't aware. And the big

28:45

thing for me, especially as an

28:47

artist, has been to take the

28:49

time to be like, who am

28:51

I actually, even behind the thing

28:53

that I present and project as

28:55

an artist? Because even that's been

28:57

influenced by what I think people

28:59

want to see. Once you do

29:01

take the alcohol out, we just

29:03

do become so much more authentic.

29:05

Yeah. And then that's going to

29:07

shine through anyway. And also helps

29:10

you tap into that, you know

29:12

when you write a song and

29:14

it just comes? You know those

29:16

ones, it's like, where did that

29:18

come from? Almost up to finish.

29:20

That's that thing when you're channeling

29:22

something greater than yourselves. That's such

29:24

an amazing experience, such an amazing

29:26

thing. Yeah. And I think the

29:28

drinking, you mean, certainly that can

29:30

happen when you're drinking all the

29:32

time. perhaps you'd be able to

29:34

channel that energy more absolutely health.

29:36

Okay, so tell us just quickly,

29:38

what was hard about quitting drinking?

29:40

Have you found times where you've

29:42

been a bit like, oh, and

29:44

you've had to struggle through and

29:46

change the brain wiring to overcome

29:48

situations or triggers? Yeah, definitely. I

29:50

think that probably the most difficult

29:52

parts would have been when I'm

29:54

alone. Yeah. Yeah. Because then you're

29:57

just hanging out with yourself. Yes.

29:59

Yeah, so that's. your trigger point. Yeah,

30:01

but it's been just so good to

30:03

just sit with all that. Do you

30:05

like yourself? Now I do. Now I do now that

30:07

I've been able to like get to

30:09

who that actually is because I feel

30:11

like for a certain degree it was

30:13

just like a product of my

30:16

environment. So now I'm like that's

30:18

who I want to spend time with.

30:20

Because you know when you meet someone

30:22

and they're just so comfortable

30:24

in who they actually are and they've

30:27

spent the time there. They just have

30:29

an aura. that kind of vibe. It's

30:31

like, that's the goal. I

30:33

reckon. Yeah, that's the gold. Also,

30:36

I read this quote from Wayne

30:38

Dye, he's a spiritual guru teacher,

30:40

that I was in too, and

30:42

still I really love him. Yeah,

30:45

he's passed away now, but I

30:47

remember a quote in a book

30:49

of his, and it said, as long

30:51

as you like who you are,

30:53

you can never feel lonely, and

30:55

yeah. That was always my mission then

30:57

after that too no because I was

31:00

always avoiding myself as well yeah yeah

31:02

by busying or you know all those

31:04

things I couldn't even go for walk on

31:06

my own without something in my

31:08

head yeah outlisting you know and it's

31:10

just been years progression of years of

31:12

just no just be with yourself and

31:15

guess you like yourself and now I

31:17

feel like that that takes a long

31:19

time too so baby steps there

31:21

eventually but yeah it's the greatest thing

31:23

as well or take out the alcohol

31:25

We get to know our souls. So

31:28

true. And how is it for

31:30

you without the alcohol now a

31:32

year down the track? Yeah. Do

31:35

you feel like you'd go

31:37

back? Never. Yeah. And why?

31:39

Just because I really feel

31:41

like I can just see through

31:43

the illusion now. I can see

31:45

through what I thought that I

31:48

needed it. Now I'm just like,

31:50

I love food. I'll have a

31:52

great meal. and I'll have

31:54

a great conversation with

31:57

somebody and Booz is

31:59

just... taking away from that. You know, like, even I

32:01

went to a restaurant the other night and it was like,

32:03

back in the day, I had a reflection of if I

32:05

had been there alone, a year or two ago, I would

32:07

have had a drink, and then I would have wanted another

32:09

one, and then I would have wanted another one, and then

32:11

I would have wanted another one, and then I would have

32:13

wanted another one, and then I would have been like, oh,

32:15

I probably shouldn't be that. But then I would have, and

32:18

then all of, I'm staying around staying around staying around staying

32:20

around staying around staying around staying around, staying around, staying around,

32:22

staying around at this, staying around at this, staying around, staying

32:24

around, staying around, staying around, staying around, staying around, staying around,

32:26

staying around, staying around, staying around, staying around, staying, staying, staying,

32:28

staying, staying, staying, staying, staying, staying, when

32:30

I could be having a nice sleep

32:32

and getting myself ready for a really

32:34

positive good day full of amazing things

32:36

happening. But now I'm just focused on

32:38

this one thing, you know what I

32:40

mean? Like it's taken all of my

32:43

attention away from myself and so that's

32:45

just it for me now I'm just

32:47

like, I don't want anything to take

32:49

away from who I really am and

32:51

all the good things that I want

32:53

to do. Yeah, it's like, did you

32:55

find the first part of quitting heart?

32:57

No, the first week. That was just

33:00

easy. And I'm thinking it's because you

33:02

had that mindset like ash. Yeah, just

33:04

I'm an Andrea cow. Yeah, that's because

33:06

I'm also, I just think it was

33:08

an all-enough thing. It was just once

33:10

again, it was just like, I'm good

33:12

if I just don't have any. I

33:14

don't want to have even the little

33:17

taste, because then that's how I'm wide.

33:19

And even like with my wife, she's

33:21

like, why don't you just get to

33:23

the point where you just have a

33:25

point where you just have wine? I

33:27

don't actually know if that's a belief

33:29

or that maybe it is a very

33:31

deep subconscious belief and it's just so

33:34

deep that I've just not been able

33:36

to get there and do anything about

33:38

it but I just know about myself

33:40

that if I just don't have any

33:42

I'm good yeah yeah I'm having a

33:44

great time yes you know let's have

33:46

a conversation whatever yeah don't give me

33:48

a beer because then I want to

33:51

have ten more Exactly. Yes, because some

33:53

of this, like we said earlier, get

33:55

the count stops. And it's... You know,

33:57

and I was talking to, it was

33:59

actually one of my sisters the other

34:01

day about that, she's like, oh, you

34:03

know, I'm having a couple of drinks,

34:05

and then I had more and, oh,

34:07

I'm fucking idiot. I'm like, no, you're not an

34:10

idiot, just the way your brain works. You're not

34:12

an idiot. It's just like, you just get the

34:14

count stops, just like me, and I would too,

34:16

if I had one drinks. Whatever, some

34:18

of us are just wired differently as

34:20

well. So yeah, and perhaps that is

34:22

there is a belief there But I

34:24

think for people that are listening and

34:26

if you do get the can't stops

34:29

and you know anyone who gets the

34:31

can't stops. No, they're a can't

34:33

stoper. Yeah, so That's so true. If

34:35

you're a can't stoper, but Kane and

34:37

I yeah, fuck it. You don't go for

34:39

one. Yeah, one's not gonna work. No one's

34:42

not going to work. No, one might work

34:44

occasionally work occasionally. it's just

34:46

it's all good without it. Yeah,

34:48

you know, it's better. Yeah, it's not

34:50

a fomo of the taste of it.

34:53

Yeah, all that euphoria at the start

34:55

is the fomo of that I think,

34:57

connection with people sometimes. Yeah. But

34:59

as you know, like we're having a very

35:01

good connected conversation about and

35:03

we have met before drinking.

35:05

We never probably had it

35:07

and sat and had a

35:09

really deep conversation. Yeah. So you

35:11

do connect with people better,

35:13

that's for sure. Okay, Haynes,

35:15

so you've got some new

35:17

music coming off. So you're,

35:20

you've done something with Ash. So

35:22

what's the name of this track? It's

35:24

called Rock. Rock. Yeah. Is this the

35:26

same one that you guys did that

35:28

real honor? Yeah. You're like

35:30

freaking out. Bollywood. That's great.

35:32

When's that out? That one is

35:35

out in April this year. And

35:37

it's the second last song on

35:40

the record. produce and record this

35:42

whole thing independently without any labels

35:44

and put it out through my own label.

35:46

It's amazing. Yeah, so that was the thing is

35:48

like also the drinking created all this space

35:51

to do all that stuff. Yes. You know, it

35:53

was like, okay, well if I don't have booze,

35:55

what am I going to do to make myself

35:57

feel fulfilled? I'll just go record it.

35:59

15 song album and got a grant

36:02

for it. Like, you have the

36:04

brain capacity to be able to

36:06

do that stuff. Yeah. Yes, amazing.

36:08

All right, so sorry, when's the

36:10

album out? The 23rd of May.

36:12

Okay, so everyone, you need to

36:14

follow Hain on Spotify. Yeah. And

36:16

then get ready for this release

36:18

of this album and keep your

36:20

eyes peeled on socials and things

36:22

like that. You know, your music

36:24

so gorgeous, like you're so gorgeous.

36:26

And I think. Yeah, God, even

36:28

way back when I think he

36:30

supported us back in 2015. That's

36:32

right, I have to tell one

36:34

more stories. That was like one

36:36

thing that was a big changing

36:38

thing for me because I remember

36:40

talking to Ash at night. And

36:42

I was like, oh, you joined

36:44

a drink? And he said, oh

36:46

no, I don't drink. But he

36:48

said it in a really like

36:50

a way that actually triggered me

36:52

because because he was so nice

36:54

about it. Because he was so

36:56

he was so like oh no

36:58

no it's cool like oh no

37:00

I don't I think I had

37:02

like a minute long conversation with

37:05

him about it and he was

37:07

like you know no no I'm

37:09

all good I'm good without drinking

37:11

but you know like go for

37:13

your life but it was almost

37:15

like even more triggering because it

37:17

was like how dare you be

37:19

so kind to me about this

37:21

thing like I expected you to

37:23

be way more pious about it

37:25

right yes it's not judgmentable at

37:27

all yeah and so for me

37:29

that was actually more difficult for

37:31

me in myself to deal with

37:33

but another thing that happened was

37:35

in yeah like also in 2023

37:37

I went and did a tour

37:39

through French Canada and I played

37:41

this festival in Quebec City and

37:43

Ziggy Albert's played the same festival

37:45

so did hollow coves another Australian

37:47

band and Kim Churchill was there

37:49

too and even Torah I don't

37:51

know if you know the Torah

37:53

guys but they're from Ocean Shores

37:55

like another band and I was

37:57

talking to Ziggy and I sang

37:59

a couple of songs with him

38:01

on stage in his set and

38:03

and I played my set and

38:05

then I got wasted after and

38:07

carried on and had a big

38:09

party and he doesn't drink and

38:11

I remember having good conversation with

38:13

him later that night and then

38:15

waking up the next morning hung

38:17

over feeling terrible driving back to

38:19

Montreal and then I got sick

38:21

for a week like it was

38:23

like two weeks before. fully recovered

38:26

and in that time I watched

38:28

Ziggy go and tour all of

38:30

America on a bus and then

38:32

go back to Australia and still

38:34

be fine and I was like

38:36

I need to do something about

38:38

this. I can't even play one

38:40

festival and these guys over here

38:42

like playing enormous shows and keeping

38:44

his shit together and I'm just

38:46

a mess. So exactly right. Him

38:48

and Ash both were just like

38:50

big signals of like... Booz affects

38:52

that. Yeah, absolutely. It totally does.

38:54

It affects your energy levels so

38:56

much. It's funny because I used

38:58

to drink for energy. Yeah, oh

39:00

yeah. Because he was so tired

39:02

from touring, but it was his

39:04

vicious cycle. Yeah. But he was

39:06

able to be so much more

39:08

productive and handle life on the

39:10

road. So he gets tired, but

39:12

he does other things. Oh, he

39:14

hesitates and whatnot. But he's so

39:16

much more functional and so he

39:18

can do so much more. and

39:20

be really on it. And that's

39:22

one thing he got out of

39:24

writing that book that we spoke

39:26

about earlier. All these guys he

39:28

looks up to, the one thing

39:30

they had in common is they

39:32

didn't drink. Oh, it is, it

39:34

goes. No, it lays are focused.

39:36

So, changes everything. Oh, Hayne, that's

39:38

amazing. So congratulations on your own

39:40

years, fucking awesome. Yeah. And I'm

39:42

sure you'll like Ziggy and like

39:44

Ash that you'll go on to

39:47

also inspire other musicians as well

39:49

that are coming up. the younger

39:51

guys or older guys. They'll see

39:53

that in you as well and

39:55

they'll want a bit of what

39:57

you've got. Yep. Just keeps on

39:59

spreading which is really fucking cool.

40:01

And you already said that you've

40:03

had people reaching out. Yeah, just

40:05

yeah, yeah, it's really. good. Yeah,

40:07

yeah, yeah, it feels good as

40:09

well because it's like guys, you

40:11

don't need it. There's so much

40:13

better stuff. That's the thing. It's

40:15

not like, oh, you know, we're

40:17

helping people miss out. Do you

40:19

know what I mean? Like, that's

40:21

the whole thing. It's like, but

40:23

that's the perception when you're in

40:25

it. It's like, you know, you

40:27

gave it up. It's like, you

40:29

didn't give up anything. You, you

40:31

gained so much. And you don't

40:33

realize that when you're in it.

40:35

And of course you do miss

40:37

out, but you miss out on...

40:39

This is one thing we were

40:41

actually not talking about the other

40:43

day, just the same old boring

40:45

conversations, the same people, the same

40:47

music, that's what we're always doing.

40:49

Always drinking with the same people,

40:51

same people, same people, same music,

40:53

same conversation. They're sitting around waiting

40:55

to get drunk enough. You know,

40:57

fucking boring. In May. in Maine.

40:59

Yeah, May June, yeah, I haven't

41:01

announced it yet, but I'm also

41:03

playing two shows supporting Ziggy 19th,

41:05

20th, March, 2025. Amazing. Anita's Theatre,

41:08

Thoreau. Oh, awesome. Yeah, amazing. Yeah.

41:10

Yeah, he's a great act, beautiful

41:12

human too. Yeah. Ziggy, yeah. All

41:14

right, well done. Thanks, Hayne. We'll

41:16

speak to you, thank you.