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2:37

Welcome back to another episode of

2:39

the How I Quit Alcohol podcast.

2:41

For first time listeners, please be

2:43

aware that not all of the

2:45

conversations within this podcast are suitable

2:47

for children. I'd also like to

2:49

add a trigger warning that sometimes

2:51

the conversations can get a little

2:53

heavy. We may talk about things

2:55

like sexual abuse, domestic violence, drug

2:57

use, and alcohol use, and if

2:59

you feel that that may trigger

3:01

you, please do not tune in.

3:03

Also, I'd like to add, if

3:05

you are a heavy daily drinker,

3:07

please seek the help of a

3:09

medical practitioner before quitting alcohol. This

3:11

podcast comes to you from beautiful

3:13

bungee lung country. Please kick back

3:15

and enjoy. Grab yourself your favorite

3:17

alcohol-free bevy. And if you haven't

3:19

already, do a gal of favor,

3:21

please subscribe, rate, and review this

3:23

podcast. Hi, and welcome back

3:25

to How I Quit Alcohol. Today, back

3:28

in the zoom room, I'm joined by

3:30

my now mate, Chris Gimpool, Chris. How

3:32

are you doing today? It's good to

3:34

have you back on the podcast. Thanks,

3:36

Danny. I'm good. Thank you. Thanks for

3:38

having me. It's super cool. I really

3:40

love how we've sort of developed this

3:42

friendship over time of many, many voice

3:44

notes and podcast episodes and seeing you

3:47

on workshops and things like that. It's

3:49

been really cool. Yeah, it's it's been

3:51

so cool to just bounce ideas around

3:53

talk about some of things not always

3:55

about How to always stop drinking can

3:57

be all sorts of stuff which we'll

3:59

kind of talk about today I guess.

4:01

That's what I love about this community,

4:03

the authentic connections that you make with

4:06

people. We had this incredible phone conversation

4:08

where we started talking about this episode

4:10

and how... It was like a deep

4:12

healing moment for me where I was

4:14

like, oh my God, like there was

4:16

some stuff I was going through and

4:18

just by something you said, I was

4:20

like, oh my God, I've just realized

4:22

something and I'm truly grateful for that

4:25

where you can have these great conversations

4:27

with people that's really heart-led and very

4:29

caring and supportive, which is really really

4:31

nice and I love that about this

4:33

community. So Chris, it's really good to

4:35

have you on today and you work

4:37

at Clean Slate. just I know people

4:39

have probably heard from you before in

4:41

this podcast but just give a very

4:44

quick overview of what clean site is.

4:46

Yeah so we're a 12-month at-home recovery

4:48

or withdrawal and recovery program so it's

4:50

on telehealth so if you picture just

4:52

your doctor or psychiatrist that maybe people

4:54

are used to doing now a bit

4:56

more on zoom is similar set up

4:58

but you have a nurse and a

5:00

doctor that yes we know alcohol is

5:03

one of those tricky things that you've

5:05

got to almost lead the changes physically

5:07

and make sure people are safe when

5:09

they're talking about changing. Not everybody, but

5:11

we will always look at people's patterns

5:13

and try and understand how the body

5:15

might react before you take the alcohol

5:17

away. So you even have a few

5:19

weeks of planning, you get comfortable, everybody

5:22

gets on the same page. I think

5:24

we've talked about that before, which is,

5:26

it's a super important stage because yes,

5:28

a lot of people might think, oh,

5:30

I really want to do this, but

5:32

you don't move house overnight. There's always

5:34

some planning, you look at it, you

5:36

research, and it's just a big life

5:38

change like that. So that's kind of

5:41

how we approach it as well. And

5:43

then stick around for all the fun

5:45

stuff that comes up after the alcohol

5:47

is gone, which we're going to talk

5:49

about today. I really love that too.

5:51

It seems like a really gentle approach.

5:53

And for people listening, it could be

5:55

a really great way of looking at

5:57

actually detoxing. off and as we know

6:00

if you're a very heavy drinker and

6:02

you just cut our call out it

6:04

can be potentially fatal and very dangerous

6:06

so it is good to at least

6:08

always talk to a GP first if

6:10

someone wanted to reach out to clean

6:12

slate how do they do that? Yeah

6:14

clean slate clinic.com just go on there

6:16

there's a little suitability quiz that's super

6:18

easy to fill out and exactly what

6:21

we're talking about you can just say

6:23

look this is how much I'm drinking

6:25

at the moment this is just the

6:27

pattern I'm in we're very targeted about

6:29

and making sure that there's no stigma,

6:31

there's no shame, we're all human beings,

6:33

a lot of lived experiences within our

6:35

set-ups. So, you know, you're not defined

6:37

by a phase of life that you're

6:40

in. So it's okay to fill that

6:42

out honestly and say, look, medically I

6:44

want to be safe, but I want

6:46

to make some change and this is

6:48

how I can at least start and

6:50

get the support from people who've done

6:52

it. They've been there, they've done it

6:54

a lot. These are nurses and doctors

6:56

that are often still working in the

6:59

same settings in hospital, but we've got

7:01

the technology benefits now and it also

7:03

means you don't have to worry, especially

7:05

in regional communities is a great example.

7:07

You're not walking in and having an

7:09

appointment with an addiction doctor where someone

7:11

might see that and that's an uncomfortable

7:13

feeling for a lot of us. Yeah,

7:15

absolutely keeps your anonymity. Does it cost?

7:18

Is it an expensive process? for the

7:20

12-month program at the moment, 3,750 for

7:22

the year. Well, that's great. Yeah, which,

7:24

you know, is for 12-month support, just

7:26

a lot of people may not realize

7:28

how to compare that. I didn't before

7:30

I got help and when I went

7:32

through the program myself, that's how I

7:34

ended up working there. And you could

7:37

be maybe anywhere between 10 grand to

7:39

20 grand, depending on the length of

7:41

stay and support you feel like you

7:43

need, but the real... Magic can really

7:45

happen is that you're getting support when

7:47

you're at home in your own environment

7:49

and that's where the rest of your

7:51

life is going to take place. So

7:53

what better place to learn and have

7:56

help along the way? I think that's

7:58

where a lot of the real stuff

8:00

happens and as you would know and

8:02

a lot of your guests are often

8:04

talking about we're retraining our brain it's

8:06

not perfect people will drink again and

8:08

slip up that's okay it's not a

8:10

failure we just support you and you

8:12

keep going because the more days that

8:15

you get through without the drink your

8:17

brain and body goes oh I didn't

8:19

even realize I can do these things

8:21

without it and it's just another day

8:23

and another day and it's just building

8:25

that momentum. I see it so often

8:27

with people where they've gone into detox,

8:29

a detox unit or even rehab. And

8:31

it's all good and of course the

8:34

detoxing because it's been taken away from

8:36

them, it's not there. So you're going

8:38

to be clean for a certain amount

8:40

of days and then they just get

8:42

sent back home. And oftentimes, particularly look,

8:44

the more medical focused detox type thing.

8:46

there's no real therapeutic tools there, let's

8:48

face it really. And so they've gone

8:50

back home and then it's there again.

8:53

Like that's a really hard thing to

8:55

face. I really like this idea of

8:57

doing it gently and slowly within your

8:59

own home base if that's what you

9:01

feel you need and if you need

9:03

that kind of actual slow detox process

9:05

and it can be a very sensible,

9:07

smart. way of doing it and I

9:09

think that's that's great. So if people

9:12

are interested in that, definitely jump on

9:14

or contact Chris, but this is not

9:16

about clean slate, but that's great. I

9:18

always like to make sure that we

9:20

give the audience lots of options and

9:22

lots of ways to go about things.

9:24

Yeah, I was just going to add

9:26

actually it's important that we're most happy

9:28

speaking to people. that can't afford the

9:31

private treatment. It's about options and nobody

9:33

leaves speaking else at Clean Slate. We're

9:35

a social enterprise. We have a mission.

9:37

We have values. We're there to tear

9:39

down barriers for accessing services. So we

9:41

will help you find the next thing

9:43

to go to and look at. There's

9:45

private health options too that we're always

9:47

building. So some people can get a

9:50

bit of help there. We've got smart

9:52

recovery groups. They're another great organization that

9:54

are actually free online too. We'll make

9:56

sure you can go and start. doing

9:58

a bit of change. And as we

10:00

know, if we talked about it at

10:02

the start, finding a community, you don't

10:04

have to do this alone. Once you

10:06

can work through and accept that this

10:09

is just where you are now, but

10:11

it doesn't have to always be, then

10:13

go and find out that there's lots

10:15

of other people in the same boat

10:17

or they've walked that way and they'll

10:19

help you. Yeah, exactly. That's right. And

10:21

that's the best way that we recover,

10:23

that we do that in community with

10:25

other people. Like, you don't need to

10:28

go at it alone. And for people

10:30

that I hear this all the time,

10:32

ah, he's not for me, did it,

10:34

which is fine, wasn't for me either.

10:36

And if you're concerned about the cost

10:38

of, say, a course, like mine, mine's

10:40

definitely not one of the most expensive,

10:42

but it's costly. It's a sizable investment,

10:44

I guess, I guess, for people on

10:47

the outset, for people on the outset,

10:49

on the smart recovery on the smart

10:51

recovery, like I love the smart I

10:53

haven't seen heaps of it but what

10:55

I have read up on and seen

10:57

some of their literature fantastic like what

10:59

a great organization great group and it's

11:01

free it is that's right it's evidence-based

11:03

April long runs that and they're doing

11:06

a fantastic job they're only getting bigger

11:08

and what's so cool about it is

11:10

that when you get into those groups

11:12

it's just good humans going fuck this

11:14

is not that easy but I had

11:16

a win this week, I went past

11:18

the bottle shop I used to always

11:20

walk into and everyone's like, hey, you

11:22

know, like, let's share some successes, let's

11:25

help each other along the way, we're

11:27

all learning, and it's a great place

11:29

to just get in. A lot of

11:31

people, too, you can start by joining

11:33

with your camera off, you can just

11:35

listen, get comfortable, there's no pressure, this

11:37

is just, remind yourself, you wanted to

11:39

make a change. You either we're going

11:41

to stay with life to stay with

11:44

life to life to where it, or

11:46

you, or you, So just try and

11:48

just see what happens. Like it's really,

11:50

you don't have anything to lose. No,

11:52

absolutely not. No way. It's, I mean,

11:54

there's so many options out there. So

11:56

definitely worth looking into 100% and I'll

11:58

put links to all these things in

12:00

the show notes. Actually, I know there's

12:03

someone that signed up to my new

12:05

challenge. did clean slate, which is fantastic.

12:07

What a great next step to get

12:09

yourself clean. You can do either with

12:11

my challenge, but even better if you

12:13

can get the alcohol out of the

12:15

system and then come in and then

12:17

start doing some of that more emotional

12:19

work and learning some tools, the breathwork,

12:22

things like that. What a great complementary

12:24

thing to add to your journey. Okay,

12:26

so Chris, we wanted to talk today

12:28

a little bit about... what they didn't

12:30

tell you about sobriety. Yeah, bastards. I

12:32

saw all this stuff on Instagram and

12:34

I was like, oh cool, I'll have

12:36

a bit of that. No, not really.

12:38

I saw someone fighting rainbows. Yeah, and

12:41

that was their bad days. I did

12:43

this post yesterday. I think you saw

12:45

it Chris about Ash and I was...

12:47

touring around with the wording and I

12:49

was like I don't want to say

12:51

to people like we used to get

12:53

trash together and now we're just amazing

12:55

all the time like you know we

12:57

used to be dickheads we still are

13:00

dickheads but now we're just dickheads that

13:02

don't drink and do a lot of

13:04

ice baths but I guess it can

13:06

look a certain way and there's this

13:08

not always there's some very truthful very

13:10

honest people out there as well it's

13:12

the two-sided thing there's all these wonderful

13:14

benefits as well but it's not always

13:16

easy of spoken fair bit on this

13:19

podcast I think about the some of

13:21

the things that they don't tell you

13:23

about but I'd like to hear what

13:25

what they didn't tell you and what

13:27

bit you on the ass especially early

13:29

on. Yeah so many things so what

13:31

I will jump to first is my

13:33

brain and body really needed to arrest

13:35

of course this is common for a

13:38

lot of people but sleep is up

13:40

and down very chaotic and that's okay

13:42

it's quite normal different for everyone I

13:44

actually took me to give people a

13:46

benchmark. It's not to put them off,

13:48

it's just to remind them that it

13:50

won't be perfect, but that's okay. It

13:52

will get better. Yeah, three months I

13:54

reckon. My sleep was up and down.

13:57

Some mornings I'm up at five and

13:59

I'm kicking but... and I'm like, this

14:01

is the best thing ever. Another days

14:03

I couldn't get out of bed. And

14:05

when you pick that apart and the

14:07

work that I had to do was,

14:09

okay, so what was my routine before

14:11

I gave up drinking? And that was

14:13

late nights, that was sleeping in. Of

14:16

course my body and brain thinks that

14:18

that's what we do. So it's gonna

14:20

have to take a bit of time.

14:22

And I think something I like talking

14:24

about with people is we get very

14:26

used to instant reward. via drinking and

14:28

our brain gets very used to changing

14:30

how it feels very quickly. Quick fix,

14:32

yeah. Yeah, and without alcohol or mind

14:35

altering drugs and apart from really good

14:37

breathwork and a few other things, but

14:39

you can't as easily perhaps lean on

14:41

those if you're in the middle of

14:43

work meeting, well you can with your

14:45

breath, that's the cool thing about it,

14:47

but you've still got to teach your

14:49

brain that there's other ways of managing

14:51

things and a lot of the time,

14:54

it's not instant. So you'll get your

14:56

rewards. I like saying it's a delayed

14:58

reward. If I stick to what I

15:00

want to do today and tonight, I

15:02

might think it's really boring. And boring's

15:04

fine. Boring's good. That means that you

15:06

have changed your routine. But if you

15:08

can work through that tomorrow, tomorrow morning...

15:10

I'm going to get my delayed reward

15:13

is coming because I'm going to have

15:15

a great morning with a coffee, I'm

15:17

going to feel real present, I'm going

15:19

to see the water in the morning,

15:21

which I never used to see because

15:23

I was still drinking until late. So

15:25

I love just teaching the brain. Hey,

15:27

I know that you actually want to

15:29

be stimulated, but you know, it's not

15:32

happening tonight. You got to wait till

15:34

the morning. Yeah I really love that

15:36

like it's important to get okay with

15:38

being bored and feeling a sense of

15:40

boredom because I think for sure that

15:42

was one thing that kind of whoo

15:44

that bit me on the ass a

15:46

little bit that kind of sense of

15:48

a not being invited to things and

15:51

be having that sense of fuck yeah

15:53

this is a bit boring this weekend

15:55

especially when you're used to such high

15:57

energy, like I was drinking a lot

15:59

and taking drugs as well. So there

16:01

was high energy, high output that was

16:03

happening. So definitely it took so long

16:05

to get used to that state of

16:07

chaos coming down to actually a state

16:10

of calm and calm can feel very

16:12

boring. And also if you've had a

16:14

lot of trauma in your life, stability

16:16

can masquerade as boring. It can feel

16:18

weird. Yeah we're comfortable with chaos beforehand

16:20

right? Yes. Yeah there's it reminds me

16:22

there's like this cartoon drawing that I've

16:24

seen a few times now and there's

16:26

the room burning around them and they're

16:29

still drinking and it's like I'm comfortable

16:31

here they're standing out in the sun

16:33

a few weeks later they're not comfortable

16:35

there they don't know that the brain

16:37

doesn't know it the body doesn't know

16:39

it and that's cool that's normal. Yeah

16:41

this is a really good thing to

16:43

break down for sure and just to

16:45

notice it when it does show up

16:48

and it just accept. I think acceptance

16:50

is good and acceptance and I love

16:52

what you said to that delayed reward

16:54

so yeah I'm potentially feeling a bit

16:56

bored right now and I'm not used

16:58

to that but what's it going to

17:00

be like tomorrow and think about the

17:02

tomorrow and that delayed reward that you'll

17:04

get which is and it's every time.

17:07

no one ever regrets not doing it

17:09

like everyone says that the reason everyone

17:11

says that because it's fucking true like

17:13

no one regrets not drinking and getting

17:15

that delayed reward and I think also

17:17

not personalizing that being bored like that

17:19

oh I'm so bad you know like

17:21

getting really dramatic with it I think

17:23

I used to do that a little

17:26

bit like just full catastropization of the

17:28

sense of being bored and to just

17:30

this is okay it's okay it's okay

17:32

and prepare for it That reminds me

17:34

of what we've touched on previously when

17:36

we've chatted is identity. So I'm searching

17:38

for my identity because it used to

17:40

be drinking, partying and having energy and

17:42

I was fun. And there are lots

17:45

of people who say that I was

17:47

the fun one I felt expected. to

17:49

be the life of the party or

17:51

how to do this, how to do

17:53

that. So you take all that away

17:55

and alcohol is a sneaky bastard and

17:57

creeps up and just starts to become

17:59

the number one priority over time. So

18:01

when that's gone, of course the rest

18:04

of you is like... What's going on

18:06

here? It's Lost Puppy Syndrome. I've got

18:08

all my little sayings, but Lost Puppy

18:10

is you're walking around going, what is

18:12

this place, like the Truman Show? Like,

18:14

no, what the fuck's going on? I

18:16

don't even know what to do anymore

18:18

because the thing I knew you had

18:20

to do the best, which was not

18:23

good for me, I'm trying to stop.

18:25

So you got to break it down

18:27

and let you said, I think, accept

18:29

it, except it, that's normal. That means

18:31

I'm changing. That means I'm changing. That

18:33

means I'm changing. Because I'm changing. Because

18:35

I'm uncomfortable. Because I'm uncomfortable. Because I'm

18:37

uncomfortable. Because I'm uncomfortable. He talks about

18:39

three aspects of reality pain uncertainty and

18:42

constant work. Of course we don't want

18:44

to spend much time in pain if

18:46

we can avoid it but it is

18:48

part of life. Constant work so what

18:50

can I be doing without going overboard

18:52

and you know I guess worrying or

18:54

getting anxious about it and then the

18:56

rest is uncertainty and if you're doing

18:58

that then you're progressing like you're moving

19:01

forward you're evolving as a human like

19:03

we're supposed to do it. So if

19:05

you're certain about stuff and if you're

19:07

comfortable, you're stagnant and that's okay to

19:09

be still and take time, but I

19:11

think we all feel this innate biological

19:13

feeling of like, where am I going?

19:15

Like, what's my drive? What's my purpose?

19:17

What's my values? What am I doing

19:20

here? You need to still have something

19:22

that you're saying, this is important to

19:24

me. I'm going to put my time

19:26

and energy towards that. I think that

19:28

process can start when the booze is

19:30

no longer that thing. because it makes

19:32

it that thing. Yeah absolutely and you

19:34

have to have a certain level of

19:36

uncertainty to be out of that comfort

19:39

zone and to challenge yourself and what

19:41

challenges us changes us right we have

19:43

to be challenged so don't expect that

19:45

you're not going to be challenged when

19:47

you take something as big as alcohol

19:49

out or you you start to make

19:51

changes or you start to become a

19:53

different person than the one you've been

19:55

before, of course it's going to feel

19:58

weird and all sorts of feelings going

20:00

to show up. So I think first

20:02

three months to go back to my

20:04

little timeline map, Oz Tyre. my brain

20:06

was resting. Then it started, I could

20:08

feel it starting to reboot and it

20:10

was starting to come back to life

20:12

a little bit. But it was asking

20:14

big questions like this, why are we

20:17

uncertain what's going on here? I don't

20:19

recognize this routine still. So it's just

20:21

got to take time and that next

20:23

phase for me, which I wasn't expecting,

20:25

is yeah, it's not all rainbows, but

20:27

if you put in the work, you

20:29

get the reward. So I can't just

20:31

buy the reward at the reward at

20:33

the shop. I've got to do something

20:36

for it. The dopamine is not for

20:38

sale. I need to earn it. If

20:40

I go and teach my brain, and

20:42

this is not even by choice, like

20:44

our brain has not had to learn

20:46

that for, I started drinking when I

20:48

was 15. So most of my life,

20:50

my brain got dopamine. It didn't have

20:52

to work for it. I gave it

20:55

to it. Now it's got to learn

20:57

that it's got to do some. some

20:59

things that are good for me and

21:01

then it gets it. So that was

21:03

a real shift for me to be

21:05

like you've got to invest here. Like

21:07

no one's going to do it for

21:09

you. You've got to be a bit

21:11

accountable. You've got to step up and

21:14

when you do and you start to

21:16

drive some of those things for yourself,

21:18

that's what you can get addicted to.

21:20

Everybody's addicted to something in life. Mine

21:22

just happened to be booze for a

21:24

while and now I'm addicted to getting

21:26

better and feeling better and feeling good.

21:28

Same. Sorry, I can't stop reading books

21:30

and doing courses. What the fuck? Yeah.

21:33

I can't watch much Netflix because I'm

21:35

always doing the other. So I'm a

21:37

bit addicted to that. But that's where

21:39

I've sent my dopamine in that direction.

21:41

The other thing is it's really important

21:43

and that no one told me this

21:45

either, but that change doesn't happen without

21:47

action. Because you can... talk about things,

21:49

you can pay for courses, you can

21:52

be in therapy and talk about tools

21:54

and ways to apply things when things

21:56

happen, but if you don't put any...

21:58

action to what you wanting to change,

22:00

then nothing changes. This is the hardest

22:02

thing I find with people. It's why

22:04

I always say it doesn't really matter

22:06

what course you do really, unless it's

22:08

absolute rubbish. It's all about showing up

22:11

and actually putting things into practice. If

22:13

you don't put the tools into practice,

22:15

what's the point? We're just fucking wasting

22:17

air, aren't we? Like, that's the hardest

22:19

thing, I think, to realize that it's

22:21

like years and years ago I used

22:23

to read heaps and heaps of self-help

22:25

books. and I'll read self-help book after

22:27

self-help book after self-help book but I

22:30

remember saying to Ash this is before

22:32

we quit nothing changes like I read

22:34

all these books but I still feel

22:36

great and I'm still having anxiety attacks

22:38

and I realize now that actually I

22:40

wasn't putting I was just reading it

22:42

hoping it would change me but nothing

22:44

changes you until you put it into

22:46

action so that's that constant work too

22:49

isn't it's like you have to put

22:51

in the work like Don't sign up

22:53

for my challenge and think that I

22:55

can just blab on to you and

22:57

you're going to change because you're not.

22:59

Like you have to be responsible and

23:01

put that change into action. And that's

23:03

one thing I think a lot of

23:05

people don't realize. That's a great point.

23:08

If you're not ready, you're not ready

23:10

too. So I thought about quitting. I

23:12

knew alcohol wasn't good for me for

23:14

a long time. So this is not

23:16

to say to anybody, take your time.

23:18

It's clearly not bad enough. Otherwise, you

23:20

would have changed yesterday. We would have

23:22

done something yesterday. If you haven't done

23:24

anything yet, you would have done it

23:27

yesterday. So you can sit with it.

23:29

That's okay. That's very, very normal. But

23:31

just like any change, what am I

23:33

going to do about it? And you

23:35

talked about before. When I at least

23:37

made a choice to take the booze

23:39

way, I was being more authentic with

23:41

myself. Then I could be honest with

23:43

myself and say, is it really good

23:46

for you? calling your brain telling you

23:48

it's good. And so yeah, then I

23:50

start to accept actually, it's not great

23:52

for me, I'm gonna have a good

23:54

stretch of time, commit to myself, this

23:56

is how long, and I said I

23:58

was gonna do three months first, then

24:00

I had a slip up like most

24:02

people did, that went for about 10

24:05

days, and very very normal, happened so

24:07

much, glad I had it, wouldn't change

24:09

it, because it's solidified that. That's the

24:11

alternative. It was like a flashback. Do

24:13

you want that life back? Nah. That's

24:15

the whole reason I tried to get

24:17

away. And now I have a choice

24:19

since you last time. I now choose

24:21

not to drink. I don't stop myself

24:24

in Australia. I could walk out and

24:26

get it in two seconds or deliver

24:28

it in two seconds. I'm choosing that

24:30

it's not what I want and it

24:32

takes time to get to that. But

24:34

you've got to give yourself the space

24:36

away from it. to question its value

24:38

and work through all this stuff and

24:40

find alternatives and like it's fucking worth

24:43

it I hope this isn't this is

24:45

just trying to be real about yeah

24:47

for people that like you said there's

24:49

an element that's dependent on you if

24:51

you do some stuff I can tell

24:53

you you'll get rewards but if you

24:55

don't do anything yeah you're not going

24:57

to get anything and but you have

24:59

to be ready yeah if your brain's

25:02

used to just consuming to open me

25:04

that's not going to work because nothing

25:06

happens unless you make it happen when

25:08

you take away the boost. Yeah and

25:10

you're going to feel weird also when

25:12

you take out this big dump of

25:14

dopamine all the time you're going to

25:16

be in dopamine deficit which feels yuck.

25:18

But just going back to what you

25:21

said I think this is another really

25:23

important thing that no one talks about

25:25

too much and certainly no one told

25:27

me early days that a sleep up

25:29

or relapse is actually can be a

25:31

really awesome therapeutic therapeutic tool. Like if

25:33

someone sleeps up I'm always like okay

25:35

cool great. Okay we've got something to

25:37

work with now well maybe we'll learn

25:40

a bit more about you or you'll

25:42

learn a bit more about yourself and

25:44

you can dive into that more and

25:46

have some understanding or like you say

25:48

you see the alternative it can slap

25:50

you on the face a bit to

25:52

go shit okay I don't want this

25:54

for myself it can be reaffirming as

25:56

well so It's no failure. If you

25:59

have slipped up early on, it happens

26:01

to everyone. Happened to be heaps at

26:03

times. It can be the greatest gift

26:05

if you make it that rather than

26:07

going down this shame spiral, which as

26:09

you know, Chris doesn't help. It never

26:11

helps anyone. No, it's so common. You've

26:13

got a great episode. It's a solo

26:15

cast. You did a while back of

26:18

making your relapse mean something. I suggest

26:20

that to someone once a week. in

26:22

our clean slate program. I can't really

26:24

say it too much in the moment

26:26

when somebody comes to our smart recovery

26:28

groups get, eh, the slip up, you

26:30

know what, it happened for me on

26:32

the weekend and we work through it

26:34

and we talk about it. In my

26:37

head, I'm like, excellent, you've now got

26:39

all the evidence and data you need

26:41

to make the next choice. So the

26:43

balls back in your court. If I

26:45

can give anyone a cheat sheet sheet,

26:47

if you're lapsing while you're listing this

26:49

or you've just had a lapse, first

26:51

five days after, first five days after,

26:53

shit. just accept it this shit. Shame,

26:56

guilt, your body and brain tells you

26:58

all this shit, it's not true, none

27:00

of it's true. Get to day five

27:02

and then see how you're feeling and

27:04

reassess whether the change is still something

27:06

you want. Nine times out, tell a

27:08

record, and it will be and you

27:10

just move forward with the evidence that

27:12

you've now got and you don't have

27:15

to be one of those drinkers then

27:17

that goes, oh wonder if I could

27:19

moderate because I've only ever stopped myself

27:21

and I've never slipped up. So the

27:23

whole what if is gone. got further

27:25

along in the process in my mind

27:27

you're succeeding more by lapsing I'm not

27:29

suggesting go and do it on purpose

27:31

but you've got all your evidence sit

27:34

down and look at it that is

27:36

so golden Chris that's so great and

27:38

it's so much more optimistic there's hope

27:40

in that it's optimistic it's not you've

27:42

done nothing wrong you you're like you've

27:44

actually further down the road to what

27:46

you realize you're not back here at

27:48

all you're further down if you make

27:50

it mean something exactly and what I

27:53

like to latch on to is A

27:55

lot of people in myself included at

27:57

that stage say I fucked it all

27:59

up. I'm back to square one. Not

28:01

true. Your brain for the previous time

28:03

was... learning a different way and just

28:05

as quickly as it can return to

28:07

drinking because that's what it knows that's

28:09

the neural pathways it can return to

28:12

the new thing that you taught it

28:14

so you pick up where you left

28:16

off it's like counting days not everyone

28:18

counts days and it's a personal thing

28:20

I counted days early but if you

28:22

count or not for me for example

28:24

I got today 101 and then I

28:26

slipped So I just minus 10 days

28:28

and then I keep counting and go

28:31

to 102, 103. That's fine because that's

28:33

what's happening in my brain. That's the

28:35

science. I'm not even like talking about

28:37

some woo-woo shit that you have to

28:39

buy into. That's literally what my body

28:41

has done for those amount of days.

28:43

And I've just got to keep banking

28:45

them. Yes, that's so great. That's so

28:47

great. I love that. I absolutely love

28:50

that. That's so good. And very, like

28:52

I say, very optimistic for people. I

28:54

think that's what we need, right? We

28:56

need hope. We need optimism. And sticking

28:58

with the theme of this episode, no

29:00

one tells you that. Maybe they do,

29:02

but I'm not listening because I'm drinking.

29:04

And I'm like, yeah, of course you

29:06

say it's normal and everyone does it

29:09

until it happens to me. And then

29:11

it's a catastrophe and it's the end

29:13

of the end of the world. And

29:15

I'm the person that's fucked this all

29:17

up and this has only ever happened

29:19

once before in life. Not true. It's

29:21

happened to heaps people, we're telling you

29:23

it's going to be all right, trust

29:25

the system, latch on to your groups,

29:28

get to people who've walked it before,

29:30

and you'll be fine. Absolutely. I love

29:32

that so much. And what would you

29:34

say, like if you could get into

29:36

a conversation with you in the very

29:38

early stages of your sobriety, what would

29:40

you tell yourself to look out for?

29:42

Complacency is one. like we just touched

29:44

on. It's good what worked for me,

29:47

not everybody, but for me, separate my

29:49

brain into two parts, alcohol brain and

29:51

healthy brain. Alcohol brain never goes away.

29:53

You never know when he's going to

29:55

show up. And if he has a

29:57

conversation, I like to just picture like

29:59

a doctor's waiting room. I'm like, yeah,

30:01

okay, just take a seat there. and

30:03

I'll talk to you a bit later

30:05

and I'll just try and park him

30:08

for a bit. I don't have to

30:10

see him straight away and see what

30:12

he wants. I kind of know what

30:14

he wants. It's probably because the sun's

30:16

out and I'm feeling good. My body's

30:18

feeling good. The weather's a big trigger

30:20

for me. You know, sunny Queensland, get

30:22

a beer into you. That's how you

30:24

grew up. So I've just got to

30:27

ride that out for a little bit,

30:29

delay, distract, distract, decide. So that's kind

30:31

of the framework. doesn't mean it's true

30:33

or that you need to answer it

30:35

straight away. And so alcohol brand, you're

30:37

a pushy, impatient bust, just take a

30:39

seat and I'll talk to you later

30:41

and because you're not going to help

30:43

me. I'm not going to try and

30:46

push away the cravings. That's what I

30:48

maybe thought again to the point of

30:50

lapsing is fine, cravings and urges, completely

30:52

normal. You wouldn't be human if your

30:54

brain didn't say, hey we used to

30:56

do something, do you want to do

30:58

you want to do it again? don't

31:00

fight them, let them come in, sit

31:02

them down and have a have a

31:05

try and have a slow conversation with

31:07

it and then go from there. Even

31:09

no matter I'm not even talking about

31:11

what choice people make. You make whatever

31:13

choice you want. It's your life. Just

31:15

say the process to get to a

31:17

choice, slow it down and try and

31:19

like factor in everything that you have

31:21

been working towards or what's important to

31:24

you? Does this align to my values?

31:26

Do I want to be that guy?

31:28

Again, really? Is this really going to

31:30

be one drink? No. So watching out

31:32

for alcohol brain, it pop up all

31:34

sorts of times. That's really the main

31:36

one that I can think of. Like

31:38

I said earlier, you have shit days.

31:40

Whether you're drinking or not, just put

31:43

it in the shit day column. Expect

31:45

some days of the week to be

31:47

shit and accept them like you've talked

31:49

to them like you've talked about. Don't

31:51

try and fight it. That's what I

31:53

used to do. If it's a shit

31:55

day, I'll drink. That'll make it better.

31:57

Let me try and change the outcome

31:59

of the day. rather than going, you

32:02

know what, today's just not going to

32:04

be the day where everything I want

32:06

to happen is going to happen. Let

32:08

me just get to tomorrow and see

32:10

how that goes. Yeah, very solid advice.

32:12

Tell me on a more optimistic note,

32:14

not that that wasn't optimistic, it was,

32:16

but the part of you that felt

32:18

very uncertain, before you quit, before you

32:21

stopped, what would you tell that part

32:23

of yourself that was feeling uncertain, that

32:25

they didn't know what to expect? Stop

32:27

waiting? Stop waiting. Just

32:29

get in and start. Just see what's

32:31

the worst that could happen. Is it

32:34

going to be any worse than where

32:36

you're at right now? If you're having

32:38

that thought of changing, things aren't perfect.

32:40

Otherwise, why would you want to change

32:43

them? Stop fighting the evidence that's around

32:45

you. Just give it a go. No

32:47

one's asking you to sign a piece

32:50

of paper and stick to it. It's

32:52

your life. Just got to realize that

32:54

there's different ways to feel good. content

32:56

in life and then not all artificial.

32:59

I fought that for so long. I

33:01

didn't think that there was another way

33:03

and my brain wasn't healthy, let's face

33:06

it, this is we're talking about whether

33:08

it's a disease for certain people or

33:10

just a habit that is not healthy,

33:12

like it's working against you. I always

33:15

shudder a little bit when people are

33:17

like, I just wish I could have

33:19

one or two. and that's fine you

33:21

go try that do your experiment get

33:24

your evidence and then we'll work it

33:26

out that like I don't want to

33:28

stop people like you need that evidence

33:31

but really if you play it out

33:33

like what value is that going to

33:35

give you is it that good the

33:37

first one it's not that good it's

33:40

bullshit and I was only saying something

33:42

the other way if that was a

33:44

bear at the casino and I had

33:46

on the board all the different outcomes

33:49

at the risk that I'm putting on

33:51

the table to the reward that I

33:53

might feel for three minutes. That's not

33:56

a good bet. I'm not risking my

33:58

life. What I didn't know and what

34:00

I would tell my older self now

34:02

is like you don't even know what

34:05

life is and it's so much

34:07

better you can feel so good

34:09

consistently good I think it's like

34:12

rather than peaks and troughs you

34:14

can feel consistently good you still

34:16

have shit days still might have

34:19

mental health battles like I do

34:21

but more often than not you're

34:24

feeling good and alcohol took was

34:26

taking for you and for me

34:28

it was taking all that away.

34:30

It wasn't giving me a chance

34:32

to even taste it. And now

34:35

I can't stop. Now I can't

34:37

stop. I love not drinking because

34:39

it just keeps tasting so fucking

34:41

good. I know right it's so fucking good

34:43

it's so much better and anytime where it's

34:46

not good it's not the fact that you're

34:48

not drinking it's because there's another issue at

34:50

play there's something else going on all those

34:52

things we've got to learn to sit with

34:54

and be with but it's not actually because

34:56

you're not drinking that that's happening it's because

34:58

there's a deeper underlying part of you that

35:00

hasn't been dealt with yet that's going to

35:03

be nurtured and cared for and seen and

35:05

met and dealt with. Yeah, and you

35:07

just get to be who you're supposed

35:09

to be. I feel so much more

35:12

authentic and genuine. Not that I wasn't

35:14

striving to be those things, but I

35:16

am what I am and I'm so

35:19

much more comfortable in my own skin

35:21

than what I was. It was making

35:23

me so anxious and ruminate and really

35:26

just not pleasant. It wasn't pleasant to

35:28

be in my body before. Yep, same.

35:30

I can relate to that feeling 100%

35:32

and now to feel safe in my

35:34

own skin most of the time. Yeah

35:37

beautiful Chris that is just so awesome.

35:39

We'll leave it there when looking at

35:41

that first three months really that early

35:43

superiority and what they don't tell you

35:45

and I'd like to continue this conversation

35:47

with the next three months you know we'll

35:49

come back and revisit this about what

35:51

they didn't tell you about that. And

35:53

if anyone's got any questions like please

35:55

hit us up and we'd love to

35:58

tackle some of these questions if If

36:00

you are worried, if you are feeling

36:02

this uncertainty, if you're worried about the

36:04

pain that might be there or the

36:06

work, hit us up with something that

36:09

we might be able to address and

36:11

talk about as well when we get

36:13

together and do this again. Yeah, and

36:15

I just think for everyone who's listening,

36:17

no matter where you are in your

36:20

journey, I just think it's really worth

36:22

celebrating and knowing that you're doing so

36:24

well, whether you've slipped up or whether,

36:26

even if you haven't. Like the fact

36:28

that you're thinking about this. that you're

36:31

listening to this podcast, there's something in

36:33

you, also that loves you enough to

36:35

get you to start asking the question.

36:37

There's a part of you that wants

36:40

you to be more and that's the

36:42

part that's got you here. We want

36:44

to learn to even access that part

36:46

a bit more. That's the part of

36:48

you that has hope and has optimism.

36:51

Yeah, trust us, we'll help you. Like

36:53

reach out to me individually. I'll help

36:55

anybody that. is asking for it and

36:57

I'm sure I know you do and

36:59

like we said earlier the community does

37:02

because we know what it felt like

37:04

and none of us want any other

37:06

human being to feel that way when

37:08

they don't have to and we're here

37:10

just lean on the people that are

37:13

around that can can show you the

37:15

way and it'll be fine we're all

37:17

in this together a hundred percent and

37:19

look I think why so many people

37:22

have There is so much addiction and

37:24

there's so much pain and suffering in

37:26

this world in today's society as well

37:28

as because we don't have that sense

37:30

of community. There's a lot of aloneness.

37:33

The safer people can feel within community

37:35

where they feel like someone has their

37:37

back, someone's listening, someone will be non-judgmental

37:39

towards them that will accept and to

37:41

be with them. But we can't do

37:44

this stuff on our own. Can we

37:46

start as a community to start supporting

37:48

other people? Not just me, not just

37:50

you Chris, but everyone within this community.

37:53

Can we ask people how they're going?

37:55

Can we ask people if they need

37:57

a hand? Can we? start making more

37:59

of a community where we just start

38:01

embracing each other and not shaming people

38:04

especially if they've slipped up where it's

38:06

just that okay we've got you we've

38:08

got this and you're okay because you've

38:10

got people and to have this sense

38:12

of community I think there'd be far

38:15

less addiction far less mental health issues

38:17

as well you know I really feel

38:19

that. Thanks Chris. Thank you that was

38:21

cool. Thank you so much for coming

38:23

on it. again today donating your time

38:26

as well as your bloody legend and

38:28

please feel free to reach out to

38:30

Chris go into the show notes if

38:32

you are interested in in the clean

38:35

slate program or smart recovery anything will

38:37

all be there in the show note

38:39

so if you want to reach out

38:41

to Chris personally and we're here for

38:43

you that's yeah we got you back

38:46

we got you back bloody legend thanks

38:48

my friend That was a really beautiful

38:50

conversation with Chris Gimple, just in reflection

38:52

when Chris and I jumped off. I

38:54

do like to try and give some

38:57

journal prompts and I thought perhaps a

38:59

good journal prompt for this episode is

39:01

to just sit a moment and if

39:03

you are unsure, if you're on the

39:06

fence about quitting, or perhaps about anything

39:08

else, can you identify the uncertainty? So

39:10

what is the uncertainty that you could

39:12

face and what is the pain point

39:14

associated with that uncertainty? So what am

39:17

I most worried about with that uncertainty

39:19

and jot that out and do a

39:21

bit of journaling on it? So what

39:23

am I worried about and just get

39:25

it down on paper because sometimes just

39:28

getting it out and then even talking

39:30

to someone about that can really help

39:32

afterwards and then Particularly someone who's been

39:34

there particularly a sober person and then

39:36

what's the optimism? Perhaps what's the optimism

39:39

point with this uncertainty? What's possible for

39:41

me that I don't know that I

39:43

am uncertain about, but that I've heard

39:45

about? And there's that leap of faith

39:48

then there, isn't there, where, okay, can

39:50

I put my faith into this that

39:52

perhaps it could be good? Perhaps I

39:54

will make new friends. Perhaps I won't

39:56

be boring. Perhaps, perhaps... perhaps, just to

39:59

have a look at it and then

40:01

weigh that up and then see how

40:03

that feels because oftentimes we put all

40:05

of our energy towards the pain point

40:07

because we have our negativity bias as

40:10

human beings. So, okay, we acknowledge the

40:12

pain points, we acknowledge the negativity, but

40:14

then what could be the other side

40:16

of it? What could that look like?

40:19

What could the optimism look like? So

40:21

there's my journal prompt to go with

40:23

that as well. So again, thank you

40:25

to Chris for coming on. And as

40:27

always, just a beautiful human who really

40:30

just wants to help people. And it's

40:32

just so great to have people with

40:34

that attitude on this podcast. And thank

40:36

you guys. I hope you find that

40:38

helpful. Well done guys. See you soon.

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