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Welcome to How Leaders Lead. I'm

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Kula Callahan. Here to bring you

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another edition of Three More Questions

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with David Novak. In these episodes,

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we debrief the conversation that David

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had with the previous week's guest.

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And today's conversation, David, were debriefing

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your interview with Glenn Fogel. He's

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a CEO of Booking Holdings, which

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has a number of companies under

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its umbrella, including booking.com, open table.

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and kayak which if you are

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a traveler you definitely know what

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those companies are and you've probably

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used them a bunch. Yeah what I love about

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Glenn is he's been with that company a

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long time and he's seen enormous growth and

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been so much a part of it he's

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very very strategic and in spite of all

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the success he's had he's very grounded and

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knows that he wouldn't have that success if

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he didn't have a great team around him

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and you know he's very grateful and I

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and I like that in a leader. I do

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too. You can also tell that he

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just really values and operates with a

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ton of common sense. And as you say,

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David, the thing about common sense

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is it's not all that common.

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And there's no question why Glenn

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and his company have been so

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successful because they just operate with

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common sense. Absolutely cool. And the other

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thing I will say is that you're

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very... Common, you know? And it's

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fun doing this with you. So let's

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get going. I mean, you know, we

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try to keep these things under 15

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minutes. Let's see what we can do.

1:30

What a hidden complement. I love

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that. All right, let's go.

1:34

Okay, question number one is

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a fun one. I had

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to ask this because booking

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holdings is obviously a travel

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company. David, what is your

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best travel story? Well, I don't

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know if it's my best travel story, but

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it might be my favorite one. Okay, your

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favorite one. Sure. You know, I was very

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lucky as the CEO of Young Brands to

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travel the world. We had businesses all over

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the world and I was able. to see

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it. It was a great blessing

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for me and you know I

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remember going to the pyramids and

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gosh I'd never seen the pyramids

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and you're you're out there you're

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in the desert and you're driving

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into this little place for these

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pyramids just stand with all this

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great antiquity and their glory and

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I look over to the right

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and I see a KFC pizza

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hut. Okay, this lit up like

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you can't believe and I was

2:27

that was maybe my most proud

2:29

and most embarrassing moment. I was very

2:31

proud that we were there and the

2:33

franchisee that was taking me there was

2:36

extremely proud to show me that they

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had, you know, this distribution in this

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such famous place. But I was kind

2:42

of embarrassed to think that anything branded

2:44

would be there. But what was really

2:47

interesting is they had a rooftop on

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this pizza at KFC where you would

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go up. and watch the light show

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at night. Cool. That they have for

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the pyramids, which was kind of cool.

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But you know, I'll never forget that.

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I will never forget that. And it

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was very funny. Were there any

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other restaurants or retail shops? No,

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no. It was just we owned the town.

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I mean, in terms of being a brand,

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you know, we owned it. But, you know,

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one of the things I always try to

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do in all my travel, especially when I

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went away for a long time, is is

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try to tag on a day. you know, at the

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end of end of the week, where

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I can actually enjoy the culture and

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see what was going on. And there's

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nothing like, you know, having the ability

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and just the opportunity to see the

3:31

world and see it the right way.

3:33

And the thing about booking holdings is

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they help people do it in their

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own way. And it's a great noble

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cause for their business because people want

3:41

to see and enjoy the world and

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all it has to offer. And that's

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exactly what their company enables. I love it.

3:47

That is a hilarious story, David. As

3:50

a travel fanatic myself, I don't have

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anything that hilarious and fun and embarrassing,

3:54

but if I keep using booking holdings

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and kayak, then hopefully I will have

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a story. that rivals your pyramids

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when because that's amazing. Good

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luck, I don't know if you will. It certainly

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was something for me to remember.

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Question number two. Booking Holdings owns

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a number of brands like booking.com,

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open table, and kayak. And in

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the episode, Glenn talks about how

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they've gone from operating totally independently

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of one another to having more

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of a centralized knowledge share among

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the different businesses. Now David, you

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too talk about finding that balance

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between centralized versus decentralized when you

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have multiple brands under the same

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roof. What's your stance on which

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one of those is better? Well,

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you know, Jim Collins and his book

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Good Great talks about the magic of

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the end, and I think there isn't

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a better here, but I do think

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this, you know, I think first and

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foremost, you have to give people the

4:50

decentralization they need to make sure that

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they have the resources and power that

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they need to make the decision. You

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know, the great Larry Basity, who, by

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the way, is celebrating his 90th birthday.

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this week had this saying that I

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loved. You take the joy of the

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job away when you take the decision

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away. So I think that decentralization is

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the first thing that I think you

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want to have if you have brands.

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You got to have these brands feel

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like they own their opportunity to grow

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the business and they own their results.

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At the same time, if you've got

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a multi-branded company, you're absolutely crazy if

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you don't take advantage of the knowledge

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that comes from each of those brands.

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And you're absolutely crazy if you don't

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figure out how you can leverage the

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resources so that you can reduce costs

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and you know take away the things

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that the customer doesn't see and do

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it more efficiently. So that's where a lot

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of times you know companies centralized

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technology that can go across all

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brands or they centralized in the

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restaurant business development which can go

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across all the brands in terms

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of building and and developing restaurants.

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So you know it's a way

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to be more efficient. But the

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other thing is, is you really want to create a

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culture where sharing know-how and it becomes

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a big competitive advantage for you. I

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always felt that was one of our

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big things that young brands is that

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we had, you know, we were doing

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business in all these countries and we

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had three different brands and if we

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could just share the learning and the

6:17

innovation that was happening all around the

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world, you know, that would give us

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a head start and a big advantage

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versus everybody else. So that's where you

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really want to build the know-how sharing

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as a part of your culture. So

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I always encouraged that. We made it

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one of our cultural values and also

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recognized people who shared and also took

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ideas. So people who shared ideas got

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a bigger bonus, people who took ideas

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got bigger bonuses. So in summary, I

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think if I had to pick one

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to your original question, I'd say make

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sure you're decentralized first where it really

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matters most. And that's where whatever affects

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the customer, you got to give the

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people the autonomy to make the right

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decisions. And then see where you can

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centralize things to improve your cost structure.

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improve your ability to share knowledge and

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innovate quicker and faster around the world.

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I love how you would recognize and

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actually incentivize people to take best practices

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from one brand to the other and

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actually cascade them throughout that organization too.

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It promotes the sense of like we're

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all in this together, we're all trying

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to grow and improve our process and

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operation and serve our customers better. And

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I don't think you ever lose in

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that scenario. Well, no, the only time you

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lose is if people feel like you're taking

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away the resources they need. to really run

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their business well and I think that's a

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fine line. You know, I love Jack Welch's

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line. which he shared with me one

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days is, you know, nobody makes it

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to shore unless the Queen Mary does.

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So you might have five or six

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brands, but the Queen Mary is General

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Electric, you know, and you wanted everybody

7:46

chiming in and helping each other so

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that Queen Mary could get to shore.

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And that's a lot of work to

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get that kind of culture, because everybody

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kind of owns their piece of GE

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or their piece of booking holdings. And

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if you can get. people thinking broader

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in terms of how it impacts

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the total organization. I think that's

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when you really are moving in

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the right direction. Question number three.

8:09

I love Glenn's quote that says,

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and God we trust everyone else

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bring data. David, how do you

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think about that? Well, I think that's

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great if Glenn doesn't think he's God.

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And by the way, he doesn't. He's

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a very humble guy. He really said

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that, you know, so important for him

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to... go to the subject matter experts

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to really get the right data and

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make the right decision. I think what

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he's saying here is that, you know,

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a lot of times when you're a

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leader, you can think you know what needs

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to be done. A lot of times as a

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leader, you think that you need to act like

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you know what needs to be

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done, just so you convey that kind

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of confidence. But what he wanted

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to do is make sure that his

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decisions were based on facts and

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data and what the customer is

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really saying. I agree with that. And,

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you know, he obviously had people

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bring data in so that they could

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make the correct decisions based on

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the fact. Now, I have to tell

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you, you know, I'm a very

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instinctual leader. My background is marketing.

9:11

You know, I'm a creative person.

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And so, you know, I think

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my intuition is really good, you

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know, probably better than it really

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is. And so what I knew

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is I had to make up

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for my in-going, bias by making

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sure I had the data seekers

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and the truth tellers in the

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room to tell me the way out

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really is, not the way out I

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might think it would be. And you

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know, I can't tell you if you're

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a leader who does things on gut

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and your intuition, you can be right,

9:43

but you're going to make some big,

9:45

big mistakes if you don't really get

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the facts. And so I think there's

9:50

a nice combination there, you know, to

9:52

A. you know, get the facts and

9:54

really understand what's really going on. And

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then B, use your trust and use

9:59

your intuition. And I think that's really

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the correct order. David, I too

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am a very intuitive, kind of instinctual

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person as well. And I have to

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remind myself to balance that out. It's

10:10

so funny, I was just thinking about

10:12

a former co-worker of mine, she had

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a needlepoint pillow sitting on her desk

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that said, data is my bitch. And

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it was her reminder that like what

10:22

she thought. and what she intuitively

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felt was right might not always

10:26

be right and to always back

10:28

up her biases with data that

10:30

supported the decision. So I think

10:32

that, you know, coupling those two

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things together, your gut feeling and

10:37

knowing that data is indeed your

10:39

bitch will lead you to the

10:41

right decision. I think if you're a

10:43

female leader, that's a good thing maybe

10:45

to have. She was a female. Yeah,

10:47

I'm sure she was, but I don't

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think that would really work in my

10:51

office. point that on your pillow. Then this

10:54

goes to being right brain. You know what

10:56

I have needle pointed on my pillow? What? Dream

10:58

big. Oh, I love that! That's what I

11:00

have on my pillow. Yeah, well that's probably

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my right brain orientation. So good. But I

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need maybe the data is my bitch kind

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of right next to it. Yes, totally. Well

11:12

that does it for our episode of three

11:15

more questions for today. Thank you so much

11:17

for tuning in to How Leaders Lead. We're

11:19

on a mission to make the world a

11:21

better place by developing better leaders. And if

11:24

you carve out a little time with us,

11:26

each and every week will help you build

11:28

the confidence you need to lead well.

11:30

Coming up next on How Leaders Lead

11:32

is my conversation with Hayes Barnard,

11:34

the founder, chairman and CEO of Good

11:37

Leap. which helps homeowners finance

11:39

upgrades that make their

11:41

homes more sustainable. The

11:43

other thing about Hayes

11:45

that I really like

11:47

is he's a Mazoo grad just

11:50

like me.