0:00

Spring Savings are in the air and

0:02

at Ross, where they have savings on

0:04

all the brands you love. From the

0:06

latest fashion to outdoor decor and even

0:09

pet supplies, savings are in every aisle. Go

0:11

to Ross and save 20 to 60% off

0:13

other retailers prices on your favorite spring fines.

0:18

No one written rules and no

0:20

shortage of adventure. Because out

0:22

here, the only requirement is

0:24

having fun. Bank of America invites

0:26

kids 6 to 18 to golf with us.

0:28

For a limited time, sign them up for

0:30

a free one -year membership, giving them access

0:32

to discounted tea times at thousands of courses. Learn

0:34

more at bankofamerica.com slash golf with

0:36

us. What would you like the power

0:38

to do? Bank of America. Restrictions

0:41

apply cbfa.com slash golf with us for complete

0:43

details copyright 2025 Bank of America Corporation. I

0:47

just saw a video last week that

0:49

I couldn't even tell if it was

0:51

satire or not. They were freezing

0:54

cottage cheese curds, freezing

0:56

them, and calling it

0:58

protein dip in dots.

1:02

That's gotta be a joke. I mean, we

1:04

can only hope. I

1:06

need to know how high cottage

1:08

cheese sales are up. Could you

1:10

lift that up? Okay.

1:16

In the past five years, cottage

1:18

cheese sales are up more

1:20

than 50%. 50 %? That is

1:22

so much cottage cheese. I'm

1:27

Yasmin Tyag, a staff writer with The

1:29

Atlantic. And I'm Natalie

1:31

Brennan, producer at The Atlantic. This

1:35

is How to Age Up. Okay,

1:41

Natalie, have you fallen for any

1:43

food trends? All of them. All

1:46

of them. I've tried

1:48

basically everything except

1:50

for prayer. I

1:53

was plant -based. Now I'm

1:55

eating ground turkey like it's my

1:57

job. I had a kombucha

1:59

phase. I'm desperately worried

2:01

about my gut health and

2:04

I Did start buying a brand

2:06

of oat milk with no

2:08

seed oils, I fear. Oh, girl.

2:11

Not the seed oils. I've

2:14

been writing about them so much in my coverage

2:16

of food and health at the Atlantic. All

2:18

these claims that they're toxic are not

2:20

backed up by the research. I

2:22

know. It's just like

2:24

if someone tells me you

2:26

shouldn't have processed additives

2:28

in your drink, I'm like,

2:30

okay, maybe that's why

2:32

my stomach hurts. I

2:34

mean, I get it. I get

2:37

the sense that a lot of

2:39

people are worried that the food

2:41

being sold to them is making

2:43

them sick. One reason why I

2:45

think food trends are so popular

2:48

is because people feel bad. We

2:50

feel unwell for so many different

2:52

reasons. Like, you know, I

2:54

had COVID recently and I didn't even

2:56

realize it because I thought feeling

2:58

so terrible was my baseline. Changing

3:02

what you eat seems like a

3:04

really easy way to fix what's

3:06

wrong with you, which in some

3:08

ways is fair. There's lots of

3:10

research coming out showing that eating

3:13

too much ultra -processed food, which

3:15

makes up the bulk of what's

3:17

sold in American grocery stores, is

3:19

unhealthy in a lot of specific

3:21

ways. But it's interesting

3:23

to see now these

3:26

very real concerns co

3:28

-opted politically, right? I

3:31

didn't imagine that

3:33

criticizing ultra -processed

3:35

foods could have

3:37

me worrying that

3:39

I was aligning

3:41

myself politically with

3:44

maha wellness supporters. You're

3:46

right. We're at a very

3:48

interesting time right now where

3:50

food and the way it's

3:53

produced is being politicized. Yeah.

3:56

RFK Jr. as the health

3:58

secretary, food is increasingly

4:00

being framed in either of

4:02

two ways. You either eat

4:04

the mahawe, which is drinking

4:06

raw milk and eating beef tallow

4:08

and only having natural foods,

4:10

or you're like a shill for

4:12

big food and eat all

4:14

this terrible processed stuff. Yeah. Which

4:16

is confusing, right? Because I

4:18

don't feel like most people fit

4:20

neatly into either of those

4:22

categories. And it's just not the right

4:25

way to think about eating. The

4:27

big problem I see is

4:29

this disconnect between what people

4:31

think they should be eating

4:33

and what they actually need

4:35

nutritionally. And I think the

4:37

popularity of food trends shows how much

4:39

we've lost sight of what we actually

4:42

need. I do find when

4:44

it comes to food trends, everything

4:46

is very black and white. We're

4:48

often told that each nutrition

4:50

trend is the best way to

4:53

eat, and it all seems

4:55

very one -size -fits -all. And

4:57

also, I constantly then

4:59

feel confused because the advice

5:01

seems like it's always

5:03

changing. I

5:06

spoke to Dr. Kara Nyamjab

5:08

about this. She's a

5:10

nutrition scientist and a coach who

5:12

is really focused on breaking down

5:14

the rules of what people think

5:16

they should eat. and instead

5:19

teach them how to feed themselves over

5:21

the course of a life. Our

5:25

nutritional needs evolve across

5:27

the different stages of life

5:29

and our body shifts

5:31

from growth to maintenance and

5:33

eventually preservation. In

5:36

childhood, nutrition is all about growth

5:38

and development. kids

5:40

gonna need more calories, protein,

5:43

key nutrients to support their rapidly

5:45

growing bodies. Then during

5:47

adolescence, you also have

5:49

growth, but you have to

5:51

consider hormonal changes. And then

5:53

there's adulthood, when the

5:55

focus moves to maintaining health, preventing

5:57

chronic conditions. And then you

6:00

have older adulthood, when

6:02

you have some real

6:04

serious physiological changes that impact

6:06

eating. appetite can decrease,

6:08

sense of taste and smell

6:10

can fade. And

6:12

so it's important to consider that

6:14

aspect when making food choices. I

6:17

find that the conversation around

6:19

eating these days is so focused

6:21

on getting more of a

6:23

certain supplement or mineral or nutrient.

6:25

I agree. You know, one

6:27

trend that really stands out to me

6:29

is this obsession with getting more protein.

6:32

Everywhere you go, you're getting added

6:34

protein. I've even seen baby food

6:36

with added protein. What do

6:38

you make of this? As a

6:40

nutritionist, I think protein is important.

6:43

Yes, it plays a critical role in

6:45

maintaining muscle, supporting

6:47

metabolism, or contributing to

6:49

how satisfied we feel after meals.

6:52

But then there's the marketing. So in my

6:54

opinion, this is more marketing than nutrition, and

6:57

it does some exaggeration happening. Most

7:00

people don't need to track every gram of

7:02

protein. And I honestly feel

7:04

we gave fruits and vegetables the same

7:06

level of hype and attention, because this

7:08

is something that most Americans aren't getting

7:10

enough of those. So I

7:12

would say, yes, protein is essential, but

7:14

also it's a trend. And trends

7:17

comes with noise. So who might

7:19

actually need more protein? So

7:21

we know that people who exercise

7:23

a lot actually definitely need more.

7:25

protein. So depending on your exercise

7:27

level, now everybody's talking about building

7:29

muscle mass. So I

7:31

would say that's definitely a

7:33

moment where you should be

7:35

maybe more intentional about your

7:37

protein intake. Also, you

7:39

know, I would say when

7:41

pregnancy, postpartum phase

7:44

or after surgery or

7:46

an injury is maybe

7:48

moment where you need

7:50

to be more intentional

7:52

about what you eat.

7:54

the growth phase for kids

7:56

and teenagers. I think

7:59

it's important to be intentional,

8:01

but at the same time,

8:03

being intentional about eating healthy

8:05

is enough. And I think

8:07

people understand that, at least

8:09

in theory, but it's

8:11

so easy to get swept up

8:13

in food trends because there are

8:15

just so many protein like we

8:17

talked about. probiotics,

8:20

collagen, adaptogens, you

8:22

know, they become popular and then they

8:24

fade out. So what do you

8:26

think is behind these shifts? With

8:28

social media, there's a little

8:31

bit too much information. It's

8:33

a mix of, you know, companies trying

8:35

to push their products and people

8:37

interest growing and, you know,

8:39

a high understanding of how food

8:41

can be healing, how food

8:43

can actually impact our health. And

8:46

I think that's That's the

8:48

perfect environment for trends to

8:50

be popular. One thing

8:52

I would say, and I always say

8:54

to the people at Workways, is to try

8:56

to disconnect from that a little bit

8:58

and think about, okay, what do you actually

9:00

like? What do you enjoy eating? What

9:03

seems difficult? What have you

9:05

tried and wasn't possible? What

9:07

do you do without thinking that

9:09

it's actually a good habit that you

9:11

need to keep? And what

9:13

do you need to work a little? what

9:15

habits you need to implement in your life.

9:18

When you think about nutrition recommendation, it's

9:21

always sold as a one -size -fits

9:23

-all. And I get it.

9:25

It's easier because you need

9:27

to give the better recommendation for

9:29

the maximum amount of people. But

9:32

it doesn't work this way.

9:34

We have different realities, different

9:36

preferences. And so I

9:38

think it's important to adjust. One

9:40

trend that stands out

9:42

to me is plant -based

9:44

eating, which generally seems good.

9:47

And I've seen it intersect

9:49

with the protein trend in

9:51

that plant -based protein is supposedly

9:54

healthier than animal -based protein. How

9:56

should we be thinking about this? Overall,

9:58

I think the plant -based eating

10:01

is a positive trend. I will

10:03

not fight against this one. But

10:05

I understand it's confusing and it's

10:07

something that's very positive for health.

10:09

So it's something I would encourage. Yeah,

10:12

it's definitely confusing to view

10:14

food in such granular terms. But

10:17

that's how lots of people

10:19

conceptualize it. What's one

10:21

of the biggest misconceptions you hear about

10:23

how to eat? Honestly,

10:25

one of the biggest consumption, the

10:27

first thing I'm thinking now is

10:29

you shouldn't eat carbs. That's

10:31

one of the things I hear

10:34

the most, and I really breathe

10:36

and try to explain to people

10:38

why carbs are actually important. And

10:40

if you've been eating carbs most

10:42

of your life, you'll be fine.

10:44

So that's one. And

10:46

if you like white rice, just eat

10:48

the white rice, add more veggies on the

10:51

side. It's

10:53

more simple than we think.

10:55

But I guess people

10:57

need someone to remind them

10:59

that. My parents are

11:01

going to love hearing you say that

11:03

if they want to eat the white

11:05

rice, they can just eat the white

11:07

rice. I have been trying to

11:09

get them to switch to brown rice for years.

11:13

Yes, that's a big question. I know my

11:15

clients love to hear that. They just love

11:17

me. Just when I say that you can

11:19

eat the white rice and you can add

11:21

fiber in other ways, you know? It doesn't

11:23

have to be through brown rice. So I

11:25

would say to me, the other misconception that

11:27

you should be very focused on

11:29

your color intake. I'm not

11:31

saying your color intake is not important, you

11:33

know, eating enough or eating too much.

11:36

It needs to be addressed, but all these

11:38

diets, do you think they're

11:40

really focused on health? My understanding

11:42

is that they really focus on appearance, looking

11:44

a certain way. Natalie,

11:55

as you know, I'm

11:57

in the middle of trying to figure

11:59

out a long -term healthy diet for

12:01

myself after a recent cardiologist appointment.

12:04

Yeah. Yeah, she looked at my blood

12:06

work and was like, okay, something

12:08

has to change here. I kind of

12:10

miss your heart monitor though. You

12:13

miss me being a cyborg? It

12:15

was kind of cute. I

12:18

do not miss it because it

12:20

made me really conscious about the

12:22

way I eat. You

12:24

know, when I was younger, the only

12:26

thing I really thought about was calories. Calories

12:29

are so ingrained into our food

12:31

consciousness from such an early age. Yeah.

12:34

But now my doctor is worried

12:36

about my blood pressure and

12:38

my blood sugar and my cholesterol.

12:41

So I'm having to think about

12:43

reducing salt, switching to whole grain

12:45

bread, even eating

12:47

oatmeal for fiber. I

12:50

hate oatmeal. Actually,

12:52

no one said you have

12:54

to eat oatmeal. I know. And

12:56

actually, Dr. Nyamjav is helping

12:59

me rethink this new shift in

13:01

eating. When she was talking

13:03

about healthy ways of eating and was like,

13:05

what do you actually like? What do you

13:07

enjoy eating? That kind

13:09

of reframed my approach to my

13:11

doctor's recommendations. Yeah, I think it

13:13

could be really helpful to think about this

13:15

as... rather than restrictive. So

13:18

what are the foods that you enjoy

13:20

that delight you that still fit into

13:22

the recommendations that you were given to

13:24

be thinking about those foods as foods

13:26

that you could be eating more of

13:28

and can fill up more of your

13:30

plate rather than making switches that you

13:32

don't enjoy. Right. This is a diet

13:34

I'm going to have to keep up

13:36

for my life. Yeah. It's meant to

13:38

prevent chronic diseases. They are in my

13:41

genes. Yeah. But I can't be eating

13:43

oatmeal forever if I hate it. No.

13:45

So now I'm thinking about ways I

13:47

might already be getting fiber and how

13:49

I can just do more of that. I

13:52

mean, I already eat a lot

13:54

of beans. Maybe there's

13:56

just going to be more of

13:58

them in my future. I've got some

14:00

good bean recipes for you. Please

14:02

send them over. I think that it's

14:04

interesting in American culture. There

14:06

are two ways that people

14:08

tend to embrace big changes

14:10

in their eating habits. One

14:12

is for personal efforts for

14:14

weight loss. And the other is

14:17

when a physician says they

14:19

have a medical need to change

14:21

their diet. We don't

14:23

have a great understanding

14:25

of how to embrace smaller,

14:28

more gradual, age -specific changes

14:30

as we age up. Right.

14:32

Like Dr. Nyamjap mentioned

14:34

that our nutritional needs change

14:36

as we get older. But

14:39

I've never thought about that. I

14:41

never saw my parents thinking about that.

14:43

They eat the same way now as

14:45

they did 30 years ago. I've

14:47

been doing a lot of

14:49

research on this for my own

14:51

personal health. And there's a

14:53

study from Harvard and a few

14:55

other universities that came out

14:57

in March that I found to

15:00

be really helpful. Yeah. Yeah,

15:02

it looked at 30 years of

15:04

data on the food habits

15:06

of over 100 ,000 middle -aged adults.

15:08

Whoa, what did it find?

15:10

Okay, so getting more plant -based

15:12

foods with a low to moderate

15:14

intake of healthy animal -based foods

15:16

was linked to a higher

15:18

likelihood of healthy aging, which they

15:20

define as reaching age 70

15:22

without any major chronic diseases and

15:24

having good cognitive, physical, and

15:26

mental health. Okay, so backing up

15:28

Dr. Niamh Diop's claim that

15:30

plant -based, not just a

15:32

trend. Not a trend, just a healthy part

15:35

of a long -term diet. But back to

15:37

the Harvard study, one thing

15:39

that I thought was really

15:41

interesting was that the study looked

15:43

at eight different healthy dietary

15:45

patterns in midlife, and all of

15:47

them were associated with healthy

15:49

aging, which suggests there's no single

15:51

best way to eat. Okay,

15:53

so healthy diets

15:55

can be adapted to

15:58

fit individual needs

16:00

and preferences. There's no

16:02

set rulebook. Amazing

16:04

news for you and the oatmeal. Oh

16:07

my god. You're

16:15

not supposed to eat the same way

16:17

all your life. Your tastes

16:19

are gonna change and just

16:21

try to try to think about

16:23

the way you eat as

16:25

something dynamic and flexible. You're

16:28

going to do your best to

16:30

eat in a way that aligns

16:32

with your values and your needs

16:34

most of the time, but there's

16:36

no perfect ways of eating. What

16:38

you're describing sounds to

16:40

me a lot like intuitive

16:42

eating. This idea that

16:45

you should eat what your body tells

16:47

you rather than try to control

16:49

your diet. What are your

16:51

thoughts on it? I think

16:53

it's an interesting approach. It's

16:55

definitely inspiring. However,

16:57

I'm not aligned on every single

16:59

aspect because I think that

17:01

sometimes, depending on your circumstances, you

17:04

do need to think a

17:07

little bit more about how you're

17:09

going to eat. I feel

17:11

intuitive eating is really geared toward

17:13

someone who has financial privilege. When

17:16

you can afford not to

17:18

really think about how you're gonna

17:20

eat tomorrow when you can

17:22

afford to focus on your inner

17:24

Hunger and fullness without you

17:27

know, because you know, you're gonna

17:29

have food all the time

17:31

I sometimes hear intuitive eating positioned

17:33

as the polar opposite of

17:35

traditional diets You know with strict

17:37

limits on what and when

17:39

and how much you can eat

17:41

which are still so popular

17:43

How does this show up with

17:46

the people you work with?

17:48

So my clients are serial dieters.

17:50

They come from years and

17:52

years, decades of dieting and cycling

17:54

between, you know, from one

17:56

diet to another. So I'm very

17:58

familiar with that. And

18:00

I think that's, you know,

18:02

I understand when you think about

18:05

it, nutrition can feel overwhelming. And

18:08

so it may be difficult

18:10

to navigate. And so a diet

18:12

is a structure. It feels

18:14

safe. So that's why people

18:16

are attracted to these diets. But,

18:20

you know, I'm trying

18:22

to demonstrate their

18:24

interest, their intuition,

18:26

to nourish themselves. So

18:29

how do you teach people how to adopt that

18:31

approach to eating? I try to

18:33

not see things black and white. You know, you

18:35

have to follow a set of rules to nourish

18:37

yourself. It's more nuances of

18:39

gray. These are,

18:41

you know, you have some principles

18:43

that are true. in

18:46

nutrition, and then how

18:48

to make this a regular

18:50

part of your life without being

18:52

obsessed with it. What are

18:54

your struggles? It's really personalized,

18:56

I would say, but the first

18:58

step is okay. When people

19:00

come to me, they failed, quote

19:02

unquote, failed so many diets, and

19:04

so they feel they are a

19:06

failure. And so the first step

19:09

is showing them they have every, they

19:11

know. and they need to

19:13

focus on what they need instead

19:15

of those rules that are not

19:17

a good fit. So what

19:19

would it look like for

19:21

me, for example, to

19:23

build healthy eating habits around my

19:25

needs? I'm in my late

19:27

30s and I have no time.

19:29

Yes, we're about the same

19:31

age and I do feel that

19:33

for myself as well. You

19:35

probably have young kids to take

19:37

care of, you have aging

19:39

parents. You have a full -time

19:41

job. You're very

19:43

busy. So I think the first thing I'm thinking about

19:45

is, you know, keeping that in

19:48

mind when I provide recommendation. Sometimes

19:50

I hear people, whole food only. I

19:52

love, I love that. But is it

19:54

actually doable? Me, when

19:56

I'm thinking about, you know, that reality,

19:59

I'm thinking about, you're gonna, let's

20:01

go to what's practical. The

20:03

frozen section, pre -cut vegetables. It

20:06

needs to be easy. We don't

20:08

have much time. So I think Time

20:10

management is a big part of

20:12

nutrition at that age. Frozen spinach is

20:14

a must in my freezer. Yes,

20:18

frozen spinach and being

20:20

practical. But I don't think

20:22

there should be a big change

20:24

in the way you eat unless you

20:26

have a condition that the doctor

20:28

has identified. But you know, I would

20:30

say if you follow the general

20:32

recommendation, you shouldn't have to worry about

20:34

those details. We

20:37

are going to take a short

20:39

break, but when we come back...

20:41

Why is everyone re -talking about

20:43

the Blue Zones right now? A

20:59

subscription gives you access to all

21:01

our award -winning journalism, and you can

21:03

listen to as many articles as you

21:05

want online or in the Atlantic

21:07

app. Your subscription helps

21:09

fuel our journalism online in

21:12

the magazine and on our podcasts.

21:15

So subscribe today at

21:17

theatlantic.com slash pod sub. Exhima

21:22

isn't always obvious, but it's real.

21:24

And so is the relief from

21:26

Epglis. After an initial dosing phase

21:29

of 16 weeks, about four and

21:31

ten people taking Epglis achieved its

21:33

relief and clear or almost clear

21:36

skin. And most of those people

21:38

maintained clear or almost clear

21:40

skin, and most of those

21:42

people maintained skin that's still

21:44

more clear at one year

21:47

with monthly dosing. Ebglis, library

21:49

kizumab, LBK, with moderate to

21:51

severe ecma. doctor

22:05

if you have new or worsening eye problems.

22:08

You should not receive a live vaccine when

22:10

treated with epglis. Before starting epglis, tell your

22:12

doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

22:14

Searching for real relief? Ask your

22:16

doctor about epglis and visit epglis.lis.lis.l.com

22:18

or call 1-800-R-X or 1-800-545. This

22:22

episode is brought to you by State Farm.

22:24

You might say all kinds of stuff when

22:27

things go wrong, but these are the words

22:29

you really need to remember. Like a good

22:31

neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options

22:34

to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you

22:36

can talk to your agent to choose the

22:38

coverage you need, have coverage options to protect

22:40

the things you value most, file a claim

22:43

right on the State Farm mobile app, and

22:45

even reach a real person when you need

22:47

to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor,

22:50

State Farm is there. talking

22:54

a lot here about

22:56

not focusing on any one

22:58

specific diet, right? But

23:01

instead being flexible and dynamic and

23:03

listening to your own food preferences.

23:06

And you know, it's funny

23:08

because I'm seeing the blue

23:10

zones pop up again everywhere

23:12

right now, which lots of

23:14

people think of as maybe

23:16

the key to how to

23:19

be eating healthy. But

23:21

now that idea is being challenged,

23:23

right? The Atlantic just

23:25

published an episode on the podcast Good

23:27

on Paper about this. I'm seeing

23:29

article after article. Catch us

23:31

up. Why is everyone re -talking

23:34

about the blue zones right

23:36

now? The idea of the

23:38

blue zones has been around for over

23:40

two decades now. And it's

23:42

based on this idea that there are these

23:44

zones in the world where people live to

23:46

be a hundred or older. Okinawa,

23:48

Japan, Sardinia, Italy,

23:51

Loma Linda, California, and

23:53

Icaria in Greece. And

23:56

what people have really focused on is

23:58

what people in these places eat. Lots

24:00

of fruits, vegetables, whole

24:02

grains, legumes. And

24:05

the idea has turned into

24:07

a whole brand that now sells

24:09

Blue Zone food, cooking classes, even

24:12

skincare now. Right. But the

24:14

reason why it's in the news

24:16

again is because this researcher,

24:19

Saul Newman, looked into

24:21

data on extreme old age

24:23

and argued that the blue

24:25

zone concept is really sketchy. Like

24:28

one of his claims is that a lot

24:30

of people who are said to be a

24:32

hundred in these places may not actually have

24:34

been that old. So

24:36

it's all raised some doubts about the

24:38

entire concept altogether. I mean,

24:40

I watched the Netflix special

24:42

and I started eating more beans

24:44

and trying to walk more. But

24:47

mostly, I just felt

24:50

angry that I don't live

24:52

in a community where

24:54

the practices being discussed were

24:56

the norm. That's

24:58

really the biggest takeaway, right?

25:00

Like, I'm not sure I

25:02

can bean my way into a

25:05

new approach of urban planning and

25:07

then get centennial status. Exactly.

25:10

We focus so much on what

25:12

people in these places eat, which is

25:14

great. Yeah. Basically the Mediterranean diet.

25:16

But what stands out to me is

25:19

that these people, whether

25:21

they're actually a hundred or

25:23

just very old, they

25:25

also live in societies that are

25:27

different from the typical American. Exactly. They

25:29

have a lot of outdoor time.

25:31

They've got lots of family around. Their

25:33

food is local. Yeah. They have

25:35

time to nap. Like, if I could

25:37

nap every day, I would

25:39

have a way better shot at living to

25:41

100, but that's the frustrating thing about

25:43

the popularity of the Blue Zones. No

25:46

matter how closely you follow

25:48

the diet, it doesn't lock in

25:50

the lifestyle that goes with

25:52

it. So then, because what we

25:54

eat is one of the

25:56

only things we feel like we

25:58

can control, we expect it

26:00

to do a lot of things for us. That's

26:03

a lot of pressure to put

26:05

on our food. Yeah, that

26:07

reminds me of this concept

26:09

that's become super popular in the

26:11

nutrition space, food as

26:13

medicine, which I asked Dr. Nyamjop

26:16

about. So

26:18

food as medicine, I

26:21

think first I'd like to define

26:23

what it means because for probably what

26:25

you just described is the belief

26:27

that eating certain food can prevent or

26:29

heal diseases. And so

26:31

I'm a nutritionist because I believe in

26:33

the healing power of food. I

26:35

do believe food can support energy, immunity,

26:38

mood, and long -term health. But

26:40

my issue is that food

26:42

as medicine discourse is that

26:44

we eat framed food as

26:46

an individual problem. It focuses

26:48

too much on individual responsibility

26:50

and not enough on the

26:53

systems that create food environment

26:55

in the first place. And

26:57

so to me, sometimes it can

26:59

shift the attention away from the

27:01

policy change, like investing in equitable

27:04

food system, addressing

27:06

structural inequalities. So

27:08

yes, I support the concept. but

27:10

only if it's framed as part of

27:12

a broader solution that includes systemic

27:14

change. It does seem like there's a

27:16

lot of pressure on the individual

27:18

to make food choices for themselves. But

27:21

there are important communal aspects

27:23

to eating too, right? How

27:25

does that factor into how you discuss

27:27

food choices with your clients? When

27:29

we talk about cooking, we

27:32

immediately understand the community or

27:34

the sharing aspect of cooking,

27:36

you know, cooking for others. But

27:39

when we talk about nutrition,

27:41

it's always framing an individualistic frame

27:43

that you have to eat

27:45

this for your health. But when

27:47

you actually bring the two

27:49

together, you realize that sometimes, nourishing

27:51

yourself, you can have support. So

27:54

it's not only you, it's the

27:56

support system that can help you

27:58

make better choices. And

28:00

if I think about just kids,

28:02

nutrition, my own example,

28:06

something when you work with kids, especially

28:08

toddlers, We talk a

28:10

lot about picky eating and something I've

28:12

noticed. And we know kids tend to

28:14

imitate their parents. And in

28:16

my husband culture, we tend to eat

28:18

in a communal plate. And

28:20

what I've noticed is that my

28:22

kids eat much more fruits and vegetables

28:24

when we eat in a communal

28:26

plate. So when we eat together, and

28:28

I give them a plate on

28:30

their own. So these are strategies also

28:32

to just eat healthier. So

28:35

I was trained in France. where

28:37

culture, community aspect, eating

28:39

around a table are embedded

28:41

in our understanding of

28:43

nutrition. I don't think here

28:45

it is as much, but it's definitely

28:48

something I would focus on. How

28:50

does it affect how you study food

28:52

habits here? Is it like a

28:54

superpower where you can see exactly what's

28:56

going wrong here? Yes, a

28:58

little bit. So, you know,

29:00

I'm at the interface of different

29:02

food culture. And so that being

29:04

at the interface, give me that

29:07

superpower, not necessarily coming from outside,

29:09

but just understanding that culture and

29:11

the way food connects us is

29:13

so important. It gives me that

29:15

superpower. I have

29:17

to say it has been a cultural shock

29:19

for me when I moved to in the

29:21

United States a few years ago. When

29:24

it comes to finding

29:27

other ways or finding other

29:29

solutions or innovating, it's

29:31

definitely an asset. And

29:33

to me, it's very interesting, for example, when

29:35

people feel so guilty because they eat after

29:37

a certain time, after 8 p .m., when

29:39

in my country where I grew up, dinner

29:41

at 8 .30. To me, it's

29:43

fascinating and very interesting. But

29:46

it's one of the reasons why I

29:48

love what I do, and it

29:50

triggers some very interesting conversations. It's

29:53

helped me think about different options

29:55

when it comes to healthy eating.

29:58

You know, your handle on social media

30:00

is black nutritionist. Can you tell

30:02

me about that choice? When

30:05

I moved into the

30:07

United States, I moved

30:09

into a majority African

30:11

-American area. And

30:14

what happened is every time I

30:16

was introducing myself saying I was a

30:18

nutritionist, people were like, a nutritionist,

30:20

I never met a black nutritionist. And

30:22

I heard that so many times

30:24

that I realized it was actually something

30:26

to be a black nutritionist. It

30:28

meant something to people. I

30:30

learned after that there are

30:32

only 3 % of dietitians

30:35

and nutritionists or black nutritionists.

30:37

And of course, you know, I

30:39

went through the nutrition curriculum.

30:41

I always felt a little bit

30:43

like an outsider. I always

30:45

felt that, you know, that, let's

30:47

say, focus on the Mediterranean

30:49

diet was not necessarily super smart.

30:51

I always felt that way.

30:53

And I saw an opportunity to

30:55

say, OK, let's build something

30:57

and let's address some of the questions

31:00

that are important to us. And then

31:02

that's how I decided, OK, this is

31:04

actually who I am. I'm

31:06

a black woman. I love

31:08

nutrition. I love food. I

31:10

have the training and I

31:12

have cultural understanding to do

31:14

something special for my community. Well,

31:18

thank you so much for this amazing

31:20

chat. Thank you so much. Really lovely to

31:22

talk to you. Yes,

31:26

I think this conversation

31:28

has helped me

31:31

think a lot about trusting

31:33

my own intuition that,

31:35

you know, I know what

31:37

is healthy, I know

31:39

what foods work for me,

31:42

and that there's no

31:44

singular food trend or ingredient

31:46

that is going to

31:48

revolutionize my diet for healthy

31:50

aging. Same. But, you

31:53

know, everyone has their own

31:55

relationship to food. And

31:57

for me, something that has

31:59

been really helpful in

32:02

eliminating food guilt or constant

32:04

obsession is thinking about

32:06

food sometimes as an experience.

32:09

Do you know the poet Frank O 'Hara? I

32:12

know that you are sitting across

32:14

from me in a t -shirt

32:16

with Frank O 'Hara's face on it.

32:18

Correct. I'm obsessed with him. I

32:20

can tell. And

32:22

a big reason for that

32:25

is because his poem, Having

32:27

a Coke with You, which

32:29

has become kind of a

32:31

psalm for me. I

32:34

don't think I know that one.

32:36

There's a recording of him

32:38

reading the poem himself, and I've

32:40

listened to it so many

32:42

times that without even trying, I've

32:45

memorized the poem. He

32:47

begins by saying, Having

32:50

a Coke

32:52

with you is

32:55

even more

32:57

fun than... And

32:59

then he

33:02

lists... the things

33:04

that sharing

33:06

a soda with

33:09

his loved

33:11

one is better

33:13

than. And, you

33:15

know, he takes it one step further.

33:18

He begins to question what good

33:20

is all the research when it can't

33:22

capture an experience with somebody you

33:24

love. The works of

33:26

the Impressionists, Futurism, Michelangelo,

33:29

none of it compares. And what good

33:31

does all the research of the Impressionists do

33:33

them when they never got the right person to

33:35

stand near the tree when the sun sank? None

33:38

of them is as good as sharing a drink

33:41

with someone you love. Exactly. Yeah,

33:43

I mean, that makes sense

33:45

to me. And I think it's important

33:47

for us to remember that, you know, of

33:49

course what we eat is important

33:51

for our nutrition and our health and

33:54

our lifespan. But it

33:56

also matters when and

33:58

where and with whom

34:00

you're eating, right? Like

34:02

you could have the

34:05

most amazing plant -based nutritionally

34:08

adequate diet, but if you're

34:10

eating it alone all

34:12

the time, that's not going

34:14

to be great for

34:16

you. When I think about

34:18

the food memories that

34:20

are most important to me,

34:23

they honestly have less to do with

34:25

the food than with the context,

34:27

right? Like my favorite food memory is

34:30

from when I was like seven

34:33

years old. I was swimming in

34:35

my cousin's outdoor pool in the

34:37

Philippines with all of my little

34:39

cousins. And one of

34:41

the aunties had one of those grilled

34:43

cheese makers by the side of the

34:45

pool and she was just whipping out

34:47

these little grilled sardine sandwiches and just

34:50

handing them out to us fresh out

34:52

of the pool. And we would be

34:54

so hungry and it was just so

34:56

warm and salty. That,

34:59

to me, was the happiest food

35:01

moment. And that's a lot coming

35:03

from you, a foodie. Yeah, you

35:05

know, give me the sardines on

35:07

toast. Yeah, or, you

35:09

know, for me, every once in

35:11

a while, a Coke. The

35:15

poem has given me a

35:17

lot of permission to remember that

35:19

food isn't always just about

35:21

its ingredients. It's also

35:23

about ceremony and connection and... in

35:25

what is shared. It seems

35:27

they were all cheated of some

35:29

marvelous experience, which is not

35:31

going to go wasted on me,

35:33

which is why I'm telling

35:35

you about it. The

35:38

marvelous experience of sharing a

35:40

meal. Not wasted on

35:42

me either, Mr. O 'Hara. And I

35:44

will tell you and tell you and tell

35:46

you about it. That's

35:51

all for this episode of How to

35:53

Age Up. This episode was

35:55

hosted by me, Yasmin Tyag, and

35:57

co -hosted and produced by Natalie

35:59

Brennan. Our editors are Claudine

36:01

Abade Jocelyn Frank. Fact

36:04

by Anna Alvarado. Our

36:06

engineer is Rob Smerziak. Rob also composed

36:08

some of the music for this show. The

36:10

executive producer of audio is Claudina

36:13

Bade, and the managing editor of audio

36:15

is Andrea Valdez. Next

36:17

time on How to Age While

36:19

we are the most aged, diverse

36:21

society we've ever been, we're simultaneously

36:23

the most age -segregated. What we

36:25

can learn from intergenerational partnerships to

36:27

age up together. We'll

36:29

be back with you on Monday. To

36:41

preserve democracy, one

36:43

has to believe in it. To

36:45

believe in democracy, one has to

36:47

understand it. Where it

36:49

came from, how it works, what's

36:52

true, what's not true, what

36:55

others did before you, how it

36:57

could be better, how to

36:59

make a difference. I'm

37:02

David Fromm, a staff writer at

37:04

The Atlantic. I'm starting a

37:06

new show where each week I'll dig

37:08

deep into the big questions people

37:10

have about our politics and our society.

37:14

I'll explain the progress that the

37:16

peoples of the democratic world

37:18

have made together and remind you

37:20

that the American idea is

37:22

worth defending. Listen to or

37:24

watch The David Fromm Show wherever you

37:26

get your podcasts. Fromm.