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1:17

Hi everyone, King Karen here with

1:19

a how-to-be 16 midweek catch-up. Hi Karen,

1:21

how are you? I'm fine, how are

1:23

you? Yeah, I'm good, thank you, I'm

1:25

good. It just combobulates me when you're

1:27

not in the same room. Oh, you

1:30

annoy me, but I've got used to

1:32

you. I like you're sitting beside me.

1:34

You annoying me and I've not got

1:36

used to you. Have you got your

1:38

kitchen finished yet? Yeah. Well no, and

1:40

I say yes, the Hobson, thank God

1:42

I'm able to cook again, dishwasher is

1:44

working, all the units are in, I

1:46

still need to get the back splash

1:48

thing and the painting down and

1:50

the lights. I'm deciding on a

1:53

colour. All right, oh that looks

1:55

lovely actually, that's nice. What colour

1:57

is that? It's navy blue. Very,

1:59

very. And you see all my marmalade

2:01

that I've been making? God, yeah! So what

2:03

you do is when you're making marmalade, you

2:06

have to put all the pips and the

2:08

mushing all the rest of it in a

2:10

little bag and then that goes, you tie

2:12

it with string and it goes on the

2:14

side of the pan. Christ Almighty, I was,

2:16

you know, doing it all yesterday as well,

2:19

turned round, the string is on fire. And

2:21

I thought, I can't going up in fire,

2:23

I've not even been in a week. God,

2:25

the bloody kitchen. That would have been terrible.

2:27

We have a super, super sensitive smoke detector

2:29

in our kitchen, which we got it sorted

2:32

now, but it kept going off all the

2:34

time. And because of our house being on

2:36

three levels, you have to have it hardwired

2:38

through to the fire station. That was apparently

2:40

a building regulation, which is very odd. So

2:43

anyway, we did that. But me and my

2:45

cooking, as you know, I'm not very good.

2:47

I remember one summer morning on a

2:49

Saturday, I was making pancakesakes for the

2:51

kids for the kids. I incinerated them,

2:53

smoke everywhere, you couldn't see in front

2:55

of your face, and the things started

2:58

going off, the alarms started going off,

3:00

and I was in a panic, I'm

3:02

sitting my dressing down, and then we

3:04

rushed upstairs, we pushed the buttons, b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-p-puh,

3:06

it was off. And then I went

3:08

and sat in the garden just to

3:10

calm down a wee bit, but unbek,

3:12

but unbeknownst to me. the signal had

3:15

gone to the fire station. So I'm

3:17

sitting in my dressing gown with my

3:19

cup of tea and then all of

3:21

a sudden I hear the screech brakes

3:23

up at the top of the drive

3:25

and eight firemen come flying down the

3:27

bloody side of the garden and I'm

3:30

sitting there in my dressing gown. I

3:32

said, oh sorry boys it was my

3:34

pancakes. Oh my god. Oh that's a

3:36

mortify. I know it was. Anyway listen

3:38

wanted to talk about this email that

3:40

we received from Katrina just a few

3:42

weeks ago. She's looking for some positive

3:45

encouragement about the post menopause years. Has

3:47

she come to the right place? Do

3:49

you think we can give her some

3:51

encouragement about the post menopause? Can I

3:53

back that back to you again? No!

3:55

Do you think we've both had different

3:57

experiences with our menopause? I think everybody

4:00

has a different experience. I mean I

4:02

do think it's one of the things

4:04

about we talk about the menopause as

4:06

if it happens to everybody in the

4:08

same way and it doesn't it happens

4:10

to everybody in a different way and

4:12

also they've got other things going on

4:14

in the life that affect it. I

4:17

think we'll take that as a no

4:19

shall I just read Katrina's email? Kay

4:21

believed that she sailed through the menopause

4:23

but you know she didn't ask her

4:25

family whether that was the case right

4:27

carry on Kay. So Katrina says, hi

4:29

King, Karen. I'm on the catch up

4:32

with the episodes. I love a binge.

4:34

Love a binge. Keep them coming in

4:36

the mid weeks. I've been an avid

4:38

listener since lockdown telling everyone how good

4:40

it is. Oh, very good. But never

4:42

felt compelled to write in before. Until

4:44

I caught up with your episode with

4:47

Julie Graham, which resonated so much with

4:49

me, Julie of course had a terrible

4:51

menopause, she was telling us that, wasn't

4:53

she? You and Karen were chatting about

4:55

menopause. Karen mentioned how she couldn't remember

4:57

people's names, her brain fog, her memory

4:59

was poor, and experienced feelings where she

5:02

doubted that she could do something. And

5:04

then Julie spoke about her journey and

5:06

how she had coped. So Katrina says,

5:08

my menopause journey has been in a

5:10

nutshell. Shit. I've struggled with M.E. for

5:12

years, still able to work full-time, thankfully,

5:14

and luckily enough to work a relaxed

5:16

hybrid week. My employer has menopause policies.

5:19

I can't fault my current boss. He

5:21

is amazing. Without that, I think it

5:23

had occurred up and disappeared. The issue

5:25

was when I got the menopause, as

5:27

she said, my symptoms were doubled because

5:29

of the M. because a lot of

5:31

the symptoms mirror each other. So I

5:34

got a double dunt of fatigue, pure

5:36

sleep, memory, brain fog, joint, they knew,

5:38

you name it. Absolutely dread having to

5:40

speak at meetings or give presentations, which

5:42

is something I took in my stride

5:44

before. I have a full-blown case of

5:46

imposter syndrome. My confidence is shot. I

5:49

hear myself speak and all the while

5:51

my brain is saying, they're thinking, I'm

5:53

talking bullshit. And I'm away off on

5:55

a tangent. and then I just can't

5:57

wait to finish. I recognise that feeling.

5:59

I have to say. Try two types

6:01

of HRT, made me worse, came off

6:04

that. I'm four years in, I've been

6:06

told I'm postmenopausal because I've had more

6:08

than a year without a period, I'm

6:10

50 looking to retire next year after

6:12

41 and a half years, but I

6:14

want to be free of this and

6:16

feel normal or at least hurt. I

6:18

would love love love. you to do

6:21

a podcast on being post-menopausal. Can't wait

6:23

to feel normal or just to say

6:25

that I am just me under this

6:27

temporary situation. I'd be good to hear

6:29

that I'm not going mad and others

6:31

are feeling the same way. And then

6:33

she says, Katrina says, well I didn't

6:36

tell you, my wife and I were

6:38

going through the menopause one after the

6:40

other, how we survived is testimony to

6:42

the strength of our relationship, but it

6:44

has been and continues to be sorely

6:46

tested. Best wishes to you both. Katrina,

6:48

I think we can both relate to

6:51

bits of that, can you, Karen? Yeah,

6:53

absolutely. But I mean, what she's going

6:55

through is just horrific. And hasn't got

6:57

any help yet, it sounds like. I

6:59

mean, trial in two different types of

7:01

HRT and neither of them working. That's

7:03

just, I don't actually know what you

7:06

do. You just have to, oh, I

7:08

have no idea. It just sounds miserable.

7:10

I mean, I really get from what

7:12

Katrina is saying is she just wants

7:14

to know that this isn't forever. and

7:16

you know that there is light at

7:18

the end of the tunnel and to

7:20

be honest I put this out on

7:23

Instagram because I thought I want to

7:25

give Katrina some light at the end

7:27

of the tunnel and hopefully people will

7:29

get in touch with some good stuff

7:31

and I did get a bit of

7:33

a flea in my ear which I

7:35

totally understand this is from people a

7:38

few people saying there's no such thing

7:40

as post menopause. come through the menopause.

7:42

Symptoms may lessen or change, but brain

7:44

cells are still dying off, cardiovascular risks,

7:46

or disaster sclerosis. We need the hormones.

7:48

Didn't matter a hundred years ago when

7:50

we died by the time we were

7:53

50. And Callahan, 264, says it's just

7:55

the next hormonal shift. You had puberty,

7:57

adolescence. You had transitioning into motherhood. If

7:59

you had children, now menopause. Like other

8:01

people have said on here, you are

8:03

never over. the menopause. It is just

8:05

another space in your life that you

8:08

adapt, lean into, and learn to live

8:10

with. And I totally take the point.

8:12

I mean, when I read those responses,

8:14

I thought, yes, absolutely. And my language

8:16

was too casual. But I suppose what

8:18

I was referring to was when the

8:20

worst of the symptoms have subsided and

8:23

you feel in a slightly better place,

8:25

then... life doesn't look so bad, you

8:27

know, I accept that's not the same

8:29

for everyone, but I would say that

8:31

is the case for me. I would

8:33

say I have come through the worst

8:35

of the menopause symptoms. So for me

8:37

there was light at the end of

8:40

the tunnel. But you had HRT and

8:42

then came off it, is that correct?

8:44

No, no, no, no, no. I mean,

8:46

to be honest, I really did. I

8:48

did have the brain fog and I

8:50

remember being sort of in live radio

8:52

broadcasts in particular because it's so quick

8:55

quick quick quick and I would be

8:57

sitting there and I knew that somebody

8:59

was going to come and say to

9:01

me so okay what's coming up at

9:03

nine o'clock and my brain would be

9:05

empty and you know the feeling of

9:07

dread when that happens you think oh

9:10

my god I'm just going to be

9:12

sitting here you know with my Joe

9:14

hitting the table and I have come

9:16

through that and I have lost the

9:18

anxiety. So am I correct? Did you

9:20

never try HRT? I did go on

9:22

HRT, I did go on HRT and

9:25

I'm still on a very low dose

9:27

of HRT and in that stage I

9:29

don't know whether I should come off

9:31

it, I don't know if I need

9:33

it or not. In fact I think

9:35

I'm going to go and get blood

9:37

test and have a bit of a

9:39

consultation and see, you know, because possibly

9:42

I would go back to feeling anxious

9:44

and forget, I don't think so though.

9:46

I mean my mom didn't have a

9:48

difficult menopause. Well actually I'm saying that

9:50

there was a time that she was

9:52

very very anxious but you know it's

9:54

such a long time ago as a

9:57

kid you remember and I can't remember

9:59

if that would be... her menopose time

10:01

or not. I suppose because we

10:03

didn't talk about it then,

10:05

possibly it was, but I would certainly

10:07

say I know that my mom wasn't

10:10

on HRT and I know that in her

10:12

late 50s and into her 60s

10:14

she was full power, she was

10:17

very energetic, she was absolutely backing

10:19

on the ball and doing a

10:21

hundred things. So if she had

10:23

come through a really difficult time,

10:26

she definitely got to a much

10:28

better place. I mean, do you don't

10:30

feel in a better place or you

10:32

don't? You know, it's difficult

10:35

to say K because I still

10:37

have brain fog, I still forget

10:39

people's names, I still have

10:41

joint pain. My sleeping went through

10:43

a stage of going well and

10:46

now, no, my sleeping isn't as

10:48

bad I have to say in

10:50

the middle of the night. I

10:52

got off to sleep, no problem.

10:55

And then it seems before hours

10:57

later, bing. So, you know, there's

10:59

part of me that is reluctant

11:02

to come off the dosage of

11:04

HRT that I'm on in case

11:06

it's even worse, but then I

11:08

think is actually doing any good

11:10

because I still have everything

11:12

that I had before, except

11:14

possibly, not insomnia, but that,

11:17

you know, my sleeping is

11:19

perhaps slightly better. I have

11:21

no idea. I don't believe

11:23

I went through a horrible...

11:25

menopause or at the worst stage.

11:27

My kids might tell you differently. I

11:29

do remember my mother having dreadful hot

11:32

sweats and going out the house and

11:34

you're walking around, you know, outside and

11:36

we would all be laughing, God, really

11:38

sympathetic. I never had any of those.

11:40

I didn't have, you know, any problems

11:42

like that. I would say probably my

11:45

mood swings would have been the worst

11:47

thing. Probably the kids would say that.

11:49

Do you think that's even doubt? You're

11:51

moot. Do you feel more settled or

11:53

settled or not? I think so. Stephen's

11:55

probably the one to ask about that and I'd

11:58

be frightened to ask him. But I think... so

12:00

a bit. Yes, yeah. Some things

12:02

I just ride over now and

12:04

think, well, that's the way it

12:06

is, you know, nothing I can

12:08

do about it, it's not in

12:10

my control. So whether that's anything

12:12

to do with it, who would

12:14

know? Isn't it funny how you

12:16

forget? It wasn't that dreadful that

12:18

I know that I've definitely improved

12:20

being on each party. I think

12:22

the other thing is, you know,

12:24

it's quite difficult to look at

12:26

the menopause in isolation. because you've

12:28

got so many other things potentially

12:30

going on in your life. I

12:33

mean Katrina you know was suffering

12:35

from ME which can't be easy

12:37

at the best of times and

12:39

then you put menopause on top

12:41

and then often it comes at

12:43

a time in your life that

12:45

other shit happens to be honest.

12:47

I mean when I was going

12:49

sort of my early 50s that's

12:51

where my mom and dad became

12:53

ill and you know that was

12:55

a really difficult three or four

12:57

years of my life. So... It's

12:59

difficult to extricate the menopause from

13:01

that other stuff in your life.

13:03

And I mean now, obviously horrible

13:05

to lose your parents and I

13:07

miss them and everything, but you

13:09

start to sort of stabilize again.

13:11

And for me, life does feel

13:14

better. It definitely feels better for

13:16

me than it did in my

13:18

50s when I was going through

13:20

the menopause. But then how much

13:22

is that to do with the

13:24

fact that I don't have that?

13:26

responsibility. I think it's great that

13:28

we talk about the menopause, but

13:30

I think it's difficult to isolate

13:32

it from other things that affect

13:34

you in your life. We've got

13:36

some more messages here. This is...

13:38

LM B L 68. It says

13:40

it's a great topic. I'm post-menopausal.

13:42

I'm 56. I started going to

13:44

the menopause around 38, which is

13:46

early, isn't it? It was awful.

13:48

I truly thought I was dying.

13:50

And then she says she ran

13:52

across a YouTube video with Nadia

13:55

Maswala and myself. And I remember

13:57

I was recording this for Leno.

13:59

But we're talking about the menopause.

14:01

Now that would be before. before

14:03

I hit the menopause, Nadia was

14:05

already there and I was very

14:07

dismissive of Nadia at that time.

14:09

I remember that. Oh, where are

14:11

you? I was, hands up, sorry

14:13

about that. And she kept saying

14:15

I was penny menopausal and I

14:17

just kept saying no, it's not

14:19

gonna happen to me. There you

14:21

go. So Nadia was saying that

14:23

she thought she had a brain

14:25

tumor or a cancer and then

14:27

she found out it was the

14:29

brain tumor. And then she found

14:31

out it was. you know really

14:33

really anxious about forgetting things and

14:36

brain fogs and she thought there

14:38

was something more serious at work

14:40

you know going on behind the

14:42

scenes and so anyway started watching

14:44

loose women heard what the different

14:46

women were talking about with their

14:48

menopause then heard about Louise Newsom

14:50

started following her on Instagram and

14:52

it was all very helpful says

14:54

I'm an American at that time

14:56

very little was talked about or

14:58

known about the menopause. And final

15:00

line though, and this is for

15:02

Katrina, I feel like I've made

15:04

it through the storm and finally

15:06

have smooth sailing. Wow. You know,

15:08

I think it's really difficult, and

15:10

I thought when I put that

15:12

Instagram post up, for the people

15:14

who struggle and continue to struggle,

15:17

and I've got another message here

15:19

from someone who is 62 and

15:21

still experiencing really, really difficult side

15:23

effects. I think if you are

15:25

the person who says actually and

15:27

through the other side lies fine,

15:29

it almost feels like an insult

15:31

or that you're trying to disregard

15:33

their experience, which of course you

15:35

don't want to do, but I

15:37

can't sit here and lie because

15:39

I do feel fine. So there's

15:41

no point to me saying anything

15:43

else. I know that might just

15:45

be the luck of the draw,

15:47

I don't know. It does affect

15:49

every individual differently. I was just

15:51

going to say that. We're all

15:53

affected and I think... We happen

15:56

to be one of the very

15:58

lucky ones. Not going through anything

16:00

like what Katrina is going through

16:02

and a number of people that

16:04

have got in touch. It just

16:06

sounds horrific. And we've heard from

16:08

women before that say, within days

16:10

of taking medication, their symptoms change,

16:12

their feelings change, their feelings, you

16:14

know. And you've got to say,

16:16

well, God, I mean, that's brilliant.

16:18

If it works, then it's great.

16:20

And we're all different. It comes

16:22

back to that. And I think

16:24

Julie Graham said that, wasn't it?

16:26

It happened pretty quickly, but again,

16:28

Julie Graham had her menopause, which

16:30

was difficult, but she also, you

16:32

know, her partner took his own

16:34

life, which was incredibly difficult. Her

16:37

children were young, her best friend

16:39

had also passed away. She had

16:41

horrific things going on in her

16:43

life, add the menopoles into that,

16:45

and, you know, that is a

16:47

really, really, you know, difficult cocktail.

16:49

I would just like to say

16:51

to Katrina and other people. There

16:53

is potentially hope and that is

16:55

not dismissing the people who continue

16:57

to struggle and I'm really sad

16:59

that you know They can't get

17:01

the help and the support to

17:03

get to a better place, but

17:05

It can get better. We've got

17:07

Joe here who says the perimenipals

17:09

absolutely broke me when I was

17:11

already down both my parents were

17:13

going through chemotherapy. I was a

17:15

stress single mom. I was the

17:18

woman that you would see crying

17:20

in the supermarkets. I had no

17:22

idea what I was experiencing was

17:24

the Minneapolis. Now I'm 60. I

17:26

do feel a huge positive change.

17:28

I'm calmer, I cry less, I'm

17:30

less anxious, I'm more excited about

17:32

the future. The lack of periods

17:34

is great. If like me you

17:36

want to go on adventures, so

17:38

many symptoms I've eased over time

17:40

by themselves. To the loveliest aspects

17:42

are my brain has returned, I've

17:44

written two books, and I care

17:46

so much less about what others

17:48

think about me, it is so

17:50

liberating, it is so liberating. I

17:52

hope this may help other women

17:54

and give them some hope, although

17:56

as I say, it's just my

17:59

experience. So we're just thinking that

18:01

Joe hasn't taken HRT or she's

18:03

just that she's gone through this

18:05

in her own. Yeah. And as

18:07

used over time by themselves, so

18:09

I mean, that can help. That's

18:11

not to say it will happen

18:13

but it can happen. And this

18:15

is an interesting one from Shields.

18:17

She says, I think so many

18:19

women who do go on too

18:21

much about the menopause, if I

18:23

was younger I'd be terrified. After

18:25

the menopause the most important things

18:27

to exercise, try to eat healthier

18:29

and focus on a positive mental

18:31

attitude. Look after your friends and

18:33

family, get out in nature, be

18:35

grateful for each day and if

18:37

you can, try to volunteer maybe

18:40

once a month if you can.

18:42

Now that is really good advice.

18:44

Hey, you've got to get yourself

18:46

up out of bed in the

18:48

first place to kind of feel,

18:50

you know, to get the benefits

18:52

of those things. I'm sure to

18:54

go, they've tried lots and lots

18:56

and lots of different things. We're

18:58

all in different places. We are

19:00

different things. Just the last one

19:02

here to finish from Roona, every

19:04

one of us is different regardless

19:06

of the stage in life. Eat

19:08

your best diet as much as

19:10

you can, strength training is good

19:12

for you, very empowering, work on

19:14

mobility exercises, clean out your cupboards

19:16

and start again, eat well to

19:18

be well. And then she said,

19:21

yes, I have had tough times,

19:23

but that was my way forward.

19:25

Yes, you can, she says. We're

19:27

not, well, we're not going to

19:29

come to any kind of resolution

19:31

or conclusion on this, are we?

19:33

But just keep your thoughts coming

19:35

in on this one. Karen, what's

19:37

the podcast address? Podcast at HDB60.com.

19:39

Yeah, I think all we can

19:41

do is have a conversation. We

19:43

are not going to come to,

19:45

you know, a sort of copper-bottomed

19:47

conclusion here, but it is worth

19:49

having the conversation. And knowing that

19:51

you're not on your own. Yeah,

19:53

absolutely, absolutely. And do let us

19:55

know anything else you'd like discussed.

19:57

Well, as we've said, can't claim

19:59

to have all the answers, but

20:02

it is good to share knowledge

20:04

and experience. And as you say,

20:06

Karen, to know that you're not

20:08

on your own. Now this Friday

20:10

in the podcast, we have got

20:12

Linda Lucardi with us. She looks

20:14

back on the days when she

20:16

was a page three model. Did

20:18

you ever consider that, Karen? No

20:20

pert breasts. No, I go back

20:22

to one of my two nicknames

20:24

at school, one which was slim,

20:26

which I loved. The other was

20:28

Titless. So no, I didn't consider

20:30

it. Funny that, eh? We all

20:32

have assets and you know. Oh,

20:34

remind me what shoes. Well, we

20:36

don't have long enough to go

20:38

through my feelings, that's for sure.

20:40

Right, cheery, bye. Titless. Acast powers

20:43

the world's best podcast. Here's the

20:45

show that we recommend. Hey

20:48

guys, welcome to Giggly squad

20:50

on a cast a place

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where we make fun of

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everything but most importantly ourselves

20:56

I'm Paige DeSorbo. I'm Hannah

20:58

burner. Welcome to the squad

21:00

Giggly squad started on summer

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