0:00

Marine biology is one of those careers

0:02

where you are driven by passion. And

0:04

on today's episode of the How to

0:06

Protect the Ocean podcast, I'm gonna be

0:09

talking to marine biologist Kenzi Horton, who

0:11

is here to talk about her drive

0:13

and her passion and how it's become

0:15

a huge part of her life and

0:18

demonstrates it in her career as a

0:20

marine biologist. She works for the state

0:22

government in Florida. She's doing a master's

0:24

at the same time on white sharks.

0:27

She is doing science communication on Tiktok

0:29

to talk about everything surrounding marine biology

0:31

and busting. those myths and giving you advice

0:33

of what to wear and what not to

0:36

wear while you're swimming the ocean, i.e. do

0:38

not wear a sequence bikini because apparently that

0:40

may or may not have been a thing,

0:42

but she talks about a lot of stuff

0:45

on today's episode and we're gonna find out

0:47

by starting the show. Hey

0:50

everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of

0:52

the How to Protect the Ocean podcast I am

0:54

your host Andrew Lewin And this is the podcast

0:56

where you find out what's happening with the ocean

0:59

how you can speak up for the ocean and

1:01

what you can do to live for a better

1:03

ocean by taking action I've got a very special

1:05

guest today Kenzi Horton who is a marine biologist

1:07

I feel like she's you know She's been in

1:09

the career for a while she's been in the

1:12

field for a while and she's here to talk

1:14

about her experience about her experience of how she

1:16

got a job coming out of universities, the struggles

1:18

that she had, but she's also here to talk

1:20

about the passion that she has for

1:22

marine biology, how she likes to educate

1:24

people through science communication, how she's doing

1:26

a master's and she wants to pursue

1:29

academia, which you don't see a lot

1:31

of people doing these days, but doing

1:33

a PhD, becoming a professor, teaching, becoming

1:35

an educator. It's all here. You have

1:37

everything you need in, you know, what

1:39

to know about a marine biologist. Kenzi

1:41

is that formula and is fun to

1:43

learn her story. even stretching from her

1:45

inspiration of her grandfather and his legacy

1:48

and how that's come out in her

1:50

passion for marine biology. It is a

1:52

great episode. I can't wait for you

1:54

to see the interview. So here's the

1:56

interview with Kenzi Horton talking about her

1:58

career in marine biology science communication. a

2:00

master's. She is amazing. You're going to

2:02

love the interview. Enjoy and I will

2:04

talk to you after. Hey, Kensey, welcome

2:06

to How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

2:08

Are you ready to talk about the

2:10

ocean? Yes, I'm really excited. Thank you

2:12

for having me. No problem. I am

2:14

very excited as well. I've been, you've

2:16

been on the bucket list for the

2:18

podcast for quite some time since I

2:20

discovered you on TikTok in your videos.

2:22

It's been a real treat to get

2:24

to know you through TikTok, but now

2:26

we're really going to get to know

2:28

each through Tiktok, but now we're really

2:30

going to get to know each other

2:32

through this through this through this through

2:34

this podcast and I'm very very excited.

2:37

and wearing the right things when they

2:39

swim. We'll talk about that in a

2:41

second as well. But it's going to

2:43

be a lot of fun. I'm looking

2:45

forward to it and really talking about.

2:47

you know, the science communication that you're

2:49

doing, but also you're doing something really

2:51

special and it doesn't happen often. You're

2:53

working full time in, you know, the

2:55

field of marine biology, but you're also

2:57

doing graduate work in the field of

2:59

marine biology at the field of marine

3:01

biology at the same time. Kense, I

3:03

don't know how you do it. We're

3:05

going to find out today. I can't

3:07

wait before we do. I want you

3:09

to just let the audience know who

3:11

you are and what you do. Awesome,

3:13

yeah, so my name is Kinsey Horton.

3:15

I'm a fisheries biologist with the Florida

3:17

Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission in Florida,

3:19

but I also am a full-time grad

3:21

student at Jacksville University where I study

3:23

the movements of white sharks in their

3:25

overwintering residency phase in the Carolina's region.

3:27

So full-time work with fisheries biologists with

3:29

the state agency as well as full-time

3:31

work with Jacksville University. But it's really

3:33

unique because the FWC office that I

3:35

work in is actually in the Marine

3:37

Science Research Institute. on Jay's campus, so

3:39

everything is in one building. You have

3:41

hit the perfect note there, because that

3:43

is like, you're able to do the

3:45

work and do your masters at the

3:47

same time, which I love. I think

3:49

that, that's how you have to marry

3:51

it, right? And we'll get into that

3:53

a little bit more, but that's really.

3:55

the key so that you don't go

3:57

crazy. You know what I mean? Like

3:59

doing two separate projects is going to

4:01

be very difficult. Having this, I think

4:03

that's wonderful. We're going to dive into

4:05

that. I want to get to know

4:07

you a little bit more. You know,

4:09

we all, all marine biologists have a

4:11

story of how we got into marine

4:14

biology. I want to hear your story.

4:16

I want the audience to hear your

4:18

story because I've read a little bit

4:20

about it. It's quite, quite special. Can

4:22

you just talk about how you know?

4:24

Yeah, so I mentioned I'm in Florida

4:26

right now, but I was born and

4:28

raised in Florida I grew up in

4:30

Orlando so central Florida But every year

4:32

my parents and I would take a

4:34

family vacation down to Key West and

4:36

we'd always go snorkeling and I fell

4:38

in love with every all the fish

4:40

and everything in the reefs and it

4:42

was right when Underwater disposable cameras were

4:44

becoming popular and so I saved my

4:46

allowance when I had this little piggy

4:48

bank all year. I would find change

4:50

in the couch for my, you know,

4:52

my dad's, you know, you'd sit down

4:54

and his change would fall into the

4:56

couch. I'd get all those change and

4:58

then I would go and I would

5:00

get my money for it and that

5:02

would be my allowance money for this

5:04

trip. And I bought a fish identification

5:06

book to take down with me and

5:08

I was so excited. And so I

5:10

spent the entire eight-hour drive reading through

5:12

this book, you know, not understanding some

5:14

of it, but I was very young.

5:16

So half the words I were jargon

5:18

to me, but I was looking at

5:20

the pretty pictures and trying to learn

5:22

as much as I could. And when

5:24

we were down there, I started taking

5:26

pictures of all these fish and playing

5:28

the matching game in this fish ID

5:30

book. And I just became so in

5:32

love with just trying to figure out

5:34

what they were and I would read

5:36

every bit of information I could understand

5:38

about these fish and then I would

5:40

go and tell my parents about it

5:42

and then we would go out snorkeling

5:44

and I would come up to the

5:46

surface and I'd be like, hey, did

5:49

you see that blue parrot fish? You

5:51

know, the blue parrot fish, you know,

5:53

eats, you know, you can hear it,

5:55

it has a beak, and it's, you

5:57

know, kind of knew that was going

5:59

to be my progression. I think my

6:01

parents really knew that that was what

6:03

the rest of my life was going

6:05

to look like. And I kind of

6:07

like that point. It probably started at

6:09

like four or five and went up

6:11

to like, I mean, I mean. Yeah,

6:13

it was, we went every year and

6:15

every year I would learn something new

6:17

and I would find new fish and

6:19

you know, we went to the dry

6:21

tortugas and I'll never forget, I actually

6:23

have a couple hogfish, so hogfish have

6:25

become one of my favorite fish because

6:27

at this one moment, I dove down.

6:29

and it was sitting there and it

6:31

opened and they had a very large

6:33

mouth and it freaked me out for

6:35

a second when I was a kid.

6:37

So I swam to the service and

6:39

I was panicking and my mom was

6:41

panicking, she could have figured out what

6:43

was going on and I tried to

6:45

tell her this fish yawned at me

6:47

and had these giant teeth and they

6:49

had two, and they had these giant

6:51

teeth and they had two, and they

6:53

had these giant teeth and they had

6:55

two, you know, and they had these

6:57

giant teeth, and they had these giant

6:59

teeth, and they had these, and they

7:01

had these, and they had two, and

7:03

they had, and they had, and they

7:05

had, and they had, and they had,

7:07

Yeah. She was like, don't worry. And

7:09

then I find it and it said,

7:11

you know, too large, can I? And

7:13

then I point into the book and

7:15

I'm like, see, they have teeth. So

7:17

I mean, I did that for so

7:19

many years and, you know, not realizing

7:21

that my life would end up being

7:23

just that. And another part was like,

7:26

I was really, I always love, you

7:28

know, the movies. like the living seas

7:30

that was I was mesmerized by that

7:32

I was it talked about all these

7:34

different aspects of the marine science world

7:36

and it you know explored you know

7:38

more uncharted areas and I just remember

7:40

I would watch that and I you

7:42

know the sting soundtrack you know even

7:44

to this day I'll listen to that

7:46

song fragile by sting and I'm like

7:48

trans reported back to being a kid

7:50

sitting in front of the TV watching

7:52

this. So I was influenced by so

7:54

many different things and one of that's

7:56

really deeply connected to me is my

7:58

grandfather. I think I mentioned this brief.

8:00

in my email to you. Yes. But

8:02

my grandfather was a sub-mariner with the

8:04

U.S. Navy. They were coming back from

8:06

the Mediterranean and the Navy lost communication

8:08

with them. They were about a day

8:10

out of Norfolk. They were about 100

8:12

miles, I think, southwest of the Azores.

8:14

And it was on May 22nd, and

8:16

they lost all communication. And it wasn't

8:18

until about a week later that they

8:20

were officially announced lost at sea. My

8:22

mother was two years old, my uncle

8:24

was five, so my grandmother had two

8:26

very young children. And so it was

8:28

very hard for her and she never

8:30

remarried, she always wore her wedding ring.

8:32

But she always talked so fondly about

8:34

him and I know, like we've always

8:36

stayed connected through memorial groups, through with

8:38

the scorpion, that was the said that

8:40

he was on. And she'd always tell

8:42

me stories growing up of... how much

8:44

he'd love the sea and he loved

8:46

history and he was planning this sailing

8:48

trip around the world and he had

8:50

these maps and he was chartering it.

8:52

He had a sextent and he was

8:54

learning how to navigate using the stars.

8:56

I actually still have, I actually have

8:58

his, the sextent that he used, he

9:01

was trying to, you know, learn on.

9:03

And she always told me that I

9:05

had his spirit. You know, she always

9:07

said that I feel like I'm talking

9:09

to George again. She's like, you know,

9:11

you know, you know, when I talk

9:13

to talk to you know, when I

9:15

talk to you know, when I talk

9:17

to you know, and I talk to

9:19

you know, and I talk to you

9:21

know, how you light up when you

9:23

talk about the ocean and you talk

9:25

about these fish, she's like, I see

9:27

him through you. And so that growing

9:29

up and not knowing this person and

9:31

knowing that I would have loved this

9:33

person, we would have been two peas

9:35

in the pot, but just still feeling

9:37

connected to someone I've never met, but

9:39

because we shared so many similar interests

9:41

and loves for the ocean and loves

9:43

for the ocean and learning and history

9:45

and just being surrounded by the ocean.

9:47

I think with all those factors of

9:49

just growing up and being surrounded by

9:51

the ocean and the sea and learning,

9:53

my natural progression into marine science was

9:55

just always going to be there and

9:57

I knew that that was my passion.

9:59

You know, they always say, you know,

10:01

you never work a day in your

10:03

life if you truly love what you

10:05

do and I truly love what I

10:07

do. Every day, you know, there are

10:09

days when I've been in the mud

10:11

and I'm looking at myself going, what

10:13

am I doing? Why am I here?

10:15

But then there are days I'm at

10:17

sea and I've been out for days

10:19

on end and it's a beautiful sunset

10:21

and I'm just sitting there looking out

10:23

and I'm 100 miles offshore and you

10:25

know the stars come out at night

10:27

and I'm like, wow, like this is

10:29

my job. I am getting paid to

10:31

do what people pay to do. And

10:33

I get to see things that people

10:35

don't normally get to see or you

10:38

know interact with animals that you don't

10:40

normally get to interact with. So that's

10:42

just kind of how my life has

10:44

led me up into this point. So

10:46

I think I'm very fortunate in that,

10:48

but that's kind of my story and

10:50

I feel like. That's why I'm here.

10:52

Well, and I love it. I love,

10:54

you can obviously see the passion, you

10:56

know, through just the story that you

10:58

told. It's amazing, it's shared by a

11:00

lot of marine biologists, like who get

11:02

to the point where you're at, which

11:04

is not easy. Let's be honest, it's

11:06

not an easy road. You know, we

11:08

talk about passion, we talk about how

11:10

that takes you, and it does take

11:12

you far, it does take you through...

11:14

the hard times it does take you

11:16

through the nicest studying the staying up

11:18

late the long days at sea those

11:20

are never easy you know sometimes the

11:22

sea works with you and sometimes it

11:24

works against you and it can be

11:26

dangerous and you know you have to

11:28

be careful and so there's a lot

11:30

of things that go with the job

11:32

like any job where there's some good

11:34

days and some bad days and so

11:36

forth But to get to where you

11:38

are, like I mentioned before, is not

11:40

easy. You know, the schooling is, is

11:42

can be difficult. Just getting in to

11:44

university in college can be difficult. Going

11:46

through college, you know, in a marine

11:48

biology program is difficult, right? Getting that

11:50

job afterwards is not easy. You, you

11:52

know, you have to be vigilant, you

11:54

have to be connected, you know, you

11:56

have to have a network. I talk

11:58

about this all the time. Was there

12:00

and knowing it since you were like

12:02

four or five that you had this

12:04

passion in you. I had it when

12:06

I was 14. You know, that's when

12:08

I realized, like, I want to be

12:10

marine biologist. Were there any points in

12:12

that time where you wavered, you know,

12:15

once you discovered like, hey, well, I

12:17

guess the first, when did you discover

12:19

that you could do this for a

12:21

living and get paid to do this?

12:23

And then were there any those, at

12:25

any point in time during schooling, whether

12:27

it be high school, whether it be

12:29

high school, I would

12:31

say there was never a time that I

12:33

was like, this is not for me, but

12:35

there were times where I thought, can I

12:38

really do this? You know, and I found

12:40

it early on was my parents, you know,

12:42

they were, you know, my dad was in

12:45

the Navy, so I mean, my parents grew

12:47

up around the ocean, so I knew that

12:49

jobs in the marine world were there. I

12:51

didn't know how many I didn't learn about.

12:54

how vast the industry really is. You know,

12:56

you always think about a dolphin trainer or,

12:58

you know, working in aquarium, which are amazing

13:00

positions, but... those the only two that when

13:03

you grow up that you think of and

13:05

they don't they don't tell you all the

13:07

small you know that you could be working

13:09

with just plankton you be working with mollus

13:12

you could go into the private sector you

13:14

could be an academic there's so many things

13:16

that you just aren't aware of unless you

13:18

are exposed to that and that usually happens

13:21

in university so I didn't know about options

13:23

in the marine science world until high school

13:25

and into university but I will say

13:27

that I have had many people Not

13:29

necessarily family, just people that were outside

13:31

or I would talk to them about

13:33

like my jobs or even people in

13:35

college. And in some in high school

13:38

and I would be like, yeah, I

13:40

really want to be a marine biologist.

13:42

And they'd go, so does everyone else

13:44

find something else. You know, it's every

13:46

90s child, you know, dream with your

13:48

Lisa Frank dolphin folders, you know. everyone

13:50

wants to be a ring biologist and

13:52

and so I think a lot of

13:54

people didn't realize that you know didn't

13:56

really know my backstory and just how

13:58

I grew up, you know, that was

14:00

what everyone wanted to do as a

14:02

kid, and especially in Florida. So I

14:04

think hearing that early on wasn't too

14:06

bad, but it was really when I

14:08

got into university when I had some

14:10

people that I, you know, were in

14:12

the, you know, professors and they would

14:14

be like, kind of warning you against

14:16

it because it doesn't pay all that

14:18

well. I mean, the main thing is

14:20

marine science is usually underfunded. You're always.

14:23

applying for grants, you're always trying to

14:25

find funding. And so finding stable funds

14:27

and stable grants, especially in academia, is

14:29

very difficult. So they always worry about

14:31

that, like, hey, you might not have,

14:33

you know, if you go into finance,

14:35

if you go into business, you go

14:37

into marketing, you're gonna have a salary,

14:39

you're gonna have a set paycheck, you

14:41

know, you know, no matter what, nothing

14:43

is necessarily changing per se. But in

14:45

marine science. depending on what sector you're

14:47

in, you know, you're kind of reliant

14:49

on your grants, you're reliant on the

14:51

funding coming in, and so there is

14:53

that level of uncertainty is, you know,

14:55

am I going to have money in

14:57

a year? You know, is this project

14:59

going to be funded in the next

15:01

few years? Like, yeah, right now it's

15:03

great, but when I have when it's

15:05

up and I need to reapply, is

15:07

it going to be... as readily available.

15:10

So those are the things I think

15:12

people will warning me about that you

15:14

don't again truly know until you're really

15:16

in it. But there was a few

15:18

times where I was I would say

15:20

like discouraged where I was like, I'm

15:22

a little nervous. But there's a few

15:24

times that I don't people be like,

15:26

especially with shark biology. Everyone wants to

15:28

work for sharks. They are the charismatic

15:30

megafauna, you know, especially with all the

15:32

TV shows. They they get all you

15:34

know, you know, they're the shiny, the,

15:36

you know, the impressive things, which they

15:38

are, but everyone wants to do it.

15:40

And so as you move through the

15:42

field, you get people that are like,

15:44

find back up plans, you know, and,

15:46

you know, everyone that I, you know,

15:48

on your other podcast, like the Beyond

15:50

Jaws one, you know, everyone's always like,

15:52

my. path to sharks was never a

15:55

direct line. And there may be a

15:57

handful. There's always the few that just

15:59

were able to do it. But it's

16:01

usually some windy road. And so I

16:03

think a lot of people were trying

16:05

to tell me that. And you know,

16:07

when you're early on in your career,

16:09

you think, well, if I want to

16:11

work with sharks, you know, this certain

16:13

type of fish, everything has to be

16:15

this. Otherwise, I'm not going to be

16:17

an expert in this. animals or you

16:19

know just different projects that might not

16:21

be like I said my most of

16:23

my work is in fisheries it's not

16:25

necessarily quote-unquote shark biology yeah but I've

16:27

kind of been able to maneuver my

16:29

way and I've gone back to sharks

16:31

so I think the moment there was

16:33

a few times early on where I

16:35

was discouraged where I was thinking that

16:37

oh you know maybe I'll never get

16:40

a chance to work with with sharks

16:42

I'll never get a chance to be

16:44

in this field because you know, everything

16:46

seems so uncertain, but I just kind

16:48

of use those things as turn them

16:50

into motivators when people were like, I

16:52

don't think you can do it. And

16:54

I'm going to do it. I like

16:56

that. And in some way, you kind

16:58

of have to prove people wrong. Because

17:00

like, look, anytime you mention anything about,

17:02

you know, marine biology or really any

17:04

kind of job as a young person,

17:06

right? people there's always going to be

17:08

doubters to like is that what you

17:10

really want to do like yeah it

17:12

seems fun to be out on the

17:14

ocean and diving and you know sampling

17:16

and all that kind of stuff being

17:18

out in the sun but is it

17:20

really like is it stable enough can

17:22

you have a good like a good

17:24

career like you would as a lawyer

17:27

as a doctor as a marketer or

17:29

a business person and and all that

17:31

stuff and you always get that negative

17:33

talk right and and I always tell

17:35

you I had I had a friend

17:37

of all I present in front of

17:39

his his class and one of the

17:41

the classmates was just like yeah like

17:43

how do you like how do you

17:45

deal with that and I'm just like

17:47

if you want it go for it

17:49

like try it you're young try it

17:51

like if it doesn't work out pivot.

17:53

You can always go back to school

17:55

or you can always do something and

17:57

and and work with something like you

17:59

have you'll have a degree. You'll have

18:01

a university degree and you'll be able

18:03

to pivot. I've done it a couple

18:05

of times. I'm doing it right now

18:07

and you'll be able to figure it.

18:09

I'm doing it right now and you'll

18:12

be able to figure it right now

18:14

and you'll be able to figure it

18:16

right now and you'll be able to

18:18

figure it. I'm out in the sun.

18:20

getting paid to do this, you know,

18:22

this is a lot of fun, I'm

18:24

learning a lot, and I feel as

18:26

though there is, and you can answer

18:28

this too, for me there's a lot

18:30

more to marine biology than just having

18:32

a stable income. Obviously that matters, but

18:34

if you look at any job, nothing

18:36

stable these days. You can get laid

18:38

off. whether you're in these days, whether

18:40

you're in the private sector or government,

18:42

which used to be stable, and it

18:44

doesn't matter where you're from, in whatever

18:46

country, this can happen. So you never

18:48

know what's going to be secure. You

18:50

might as well do something you love,

18:52

or else you're not going to love,

18:54

life is going to be boring. And

18:57

so, like, do you feel in a

18:59

way, like, you got to just try

19:01

it? I'll never know if I get

19:03

it, but if I try and I

19:05

get it, then it was all worth

19:07

it. And if not, I'd learn something

19:09

along the way. It was a fun

19:11

journey and I can say I tried

19:13

and there's no regret later on in

19:15

being like, well, you know, I probably

19:17

should have tried it. You know, who

19:19

knows? I would rather just give it

19:21

a shot, give it the best I

19:23

can and just see where it goes.

19:25

Working in fisheries and working in marine

19:27

biology is always fun. And in science,

19:29

just in general, it's fun. Because I've

19:31

talked to a lot of people, whether

19:33

it be on this podcast or the

19:35

Beyond Jaws podcast, where there's some people

19:37

who have gone through their career, they've

19:39

gone through like. you know, some of

19:42

the people we've had, like they've been

19:44

in 35 years plus of fisheries or

19:46

marine biology or sharks or whatever that

19:48

might be. But some of the pivots

19:50

that they've taken within the field have

19:52

really come from like a question, like

19:54

a scientific question. Like they want to

19:56

know more about predator prey dynamics. So

19:58

they want to know more about like

20:00

conservation or exploring how many species can

20:02

they identify and discover, right, as my

20:04

co-host does, Dr. David Ebert. Do you

20:06

have one of those like is there

20:08

something that I know you're doing a

20:10

master so that's probably your focus right

20:12

now but overall is there are there

20:14

specific questions that you're curious about that

20:16

will that will drive you whether you're

20:18

working on sharks or fish or mammals

20:20

or whatever. I would say like a

20:22

specific question to a project I mean

20:24

I have tons of those but in

20:26

a general sense I think it's and

20:29

I think it comes with everyone else

20:31

and. people you've interviewed it starts with

20:33

like a passion like we obviously love

20:35

this and there's something that draws us

20:37

to it so we have a connection

20:39

with it and then it's the curiosity

20:41

part you know we we see how

20:43

many questions you can ask and it's

20:45

how many questions you can ask and

20:47

it's that thing or it's like the

20:49

more you know the more you realize

20:51

you don't know and i think that's

20:53

the exciting part about science and a

20:55

part of us that gets excited when

20:57

we're excited when we're like you know

20:59

Poring in and I think that is

21:01

the excitement part and it draws us

21:03

into more and more projects and it

21:05

makes us want to do more and

21:07

more work because we want to just

21:09

understand our world. You know, as as

21:11

things are kind of constantly changing with

21:14

the environment and you know, we want

21:16

to understand these changes and if we

21:18

start now, we've done a really good

21:20

job, you know, the past few decades,

21:22

you know, in the future, you know,

21:24

hopefully we'll have these long term data

21:26

sets. that we can watch these changes

21:28

through time and understand these environmental changes.

21:30

You know, we talk about climate change

21:32

all the time. You know, it's so

21:34

hard to look at climate change on

21:36

such a... small scale, you need just

21:38

a long term. So we get, I

21:40

think as a scientist, we get excited

21:42

because if we start things now for

21:44

the future generations, you know, we can

21:46

have these data sets, we can watch

21:48

them change. So those big picture questions

21:50

that we are currently trying to ask

21:52

and answer, we might not be able

21:54

to answer in our lifetime, but we're

21:56

setting it up for the future to

21:59

be able to answer those questions. So

22:01

I think that's also, it's like, wanting

22:03

to conserve and protect what we have

22:05

now and then make the world better

22:07

for the future generations. I love that.

22:09

That's awesome. I love that motto. Just

22:11

figure out how to make the world

22:13

better. No matter what. Just figure it

22:15

out. And you have these certain questions.

22:17

I mean, I know as a marine

22:19

biology, we always have questions. We're always

22:21

trying to figure out something. It doesn't

22:23

matter whether it's with fish or whether

22:25

it's with fish or whether it's with

22:27

fish or outside. Whether it's with fish

22:29

or outside, you're just kind of with

22:31

fish or outside. You're just kind of

22:33

with fish or outside. Whether it's with

22:35

fish or outside. I wonder how I

22:37

wonder how I wonder how I wonder

22:39

how I wonder how I wonder, whether

22:41

it's with fish or with fish or

22:43

with fish or with fish or with

22:46

fish or with fish or outside. you

22:48

can go on land animals, but now

22:50

I'm starting to like think about it.

22:52

I'm starting to, you know, we're starting

22:54

to ask each other questions, like I

22:56

wonder what would happen to this, how

22:58

would we design this study to figure

23:00

it out? So introducing like statistics and

23:02

all that kind of stuff. So it's

23:04

a lot of fun to even just

23:06

think about those questions. And you know,

23:08

talking about school, like you're working, you

23:10

know, full time, you had your undergraduate

23:12

degree, you get this job, it's wonderful,

23:14

it's wonderful. What made you decide to

23:16

have this crazy idea of going back

23:18

to school? What was the what was

23:20

the trigger for that? Like what made

23:22

you ignite that? Oh, I want to

23:24

go back. And did you always want

23:26

to go back for for graduate school?

23:28

I'd always wanted to go back. I'd

23:31

always wanted to go back. I definitely

23:33

took an untraditional route. So I graduated

23:35

in 2016 with my undergraduate. And then

23:37

I got my job and I was

23:39

working there and I wanted to go

23:41

back. But I really wanted to get

23:43

some real world. like experience in the

23:45

field. And I was trying to also

23:47

set my myself from some of the

23:49

other applicants. I was I know going

23:51

into marine science, especially when you're going

23:53

into grad school, you have to be

23:55

competitive. You know, there's a lot of

23:57

people, there's a lot of amazing smart

23:59

people. So I was trying to find

24:01

a way to set myself apart. So

24:03

I was trying to find a way

24:05

to set myself apart. So my thought

24:07

process was I'm going to take some

24:09

time off, I'm going to kind of

24:11

reframe myself, kind of get back in

24:13

the mindset, I'm going to the help

24:16

me because I'm these concepts are not

24:18

just in the textbook. I've seen the

24:20

concepts in real life. I've seen them

24:22

applied. So I thought that that maybe

24:24

would also just just help me in

24:26

general. So I went back to grad

24:28

school in 2021 and it was kind

24:30

of during COVID when I kind of

24:32

made this decision like this is the

24:34

time because what else was I going

24:36

to do? I needed to study for

24:38

the GRE and everything was closed. So

24:40

I might as well buy the textbook

24:42

and start studying. And so that was

24:44

kind of that moment where I was

24:46

like, all right, this is the time,

24:48

like the world, even though this is

24:50

terrible, it's kind of setting me up

24:52

to kind of give me the right

24:54

time to give myself to study, get

24:56

into a university and kind of figure

24:58

out, you know, the next steps from

25:00

there. I think that's great. I mean,

25:03

it's a great, it was a great

25:05

time to do it because we did,

25:07

everybody had extra time, right? We're either

25:09

stuck at home or, you know, things

25:11

are a little bit more limited to

25:13

where you can go and whether you

25:15

want to be limited or not, you

25:17

know, everybody had that decision to make.

25:19

And I think that's, I think it's

25:21

a great opportunity. When I always said,

25:23

like, when recessions hit and stuff like

25:25

that, and you have the chance, like

25:27

try and do something extra, go back

25:29

to do something extra, go back to

25:31

go back to school. get like a

25:33

diploma or get like a degree or

25:35

even get, you know, just go back

25:37

and get like a project management, you

25:39

know, diploma or whatever that is certificate

25:41

and then try and just get a

25:43

little higher in that education to set

25:45

yourself apart. I really like that, that

25:48

that knowledge. Before we just go into

25:50

the graduates and how you balance that.

25:52

Can you talk a little bit about

25:54

like the methods you use to get

25:56

your first job like out of university?

25:58

Because a lot of people struggle. with

26:00

getting that job, right? People all

26:02

the time, like, I've just graduated,

26:04

I've undergrad, I don't necessarily want

26:06

to go back to do a

26:08

graduate degree, but God, I can't get, like

26:10

I can't get somebody to answer my

26:13

application, like I can't get an interview.

26:15

Did you do anything that you particularly

26:17

like realize like, oh, this actually really

26:19

helped, or did you have a network

26:21

that helped you get that job? Like,

26:24

what did you feel you did to get

26:26

that interview to get that job? So a

26:28

few things first off I will say I

26:30

also struggled I I had two

26:32

years where I graduated I got my

26:34

degree and I was actively searching for

26:37

jobs I was bartending at the time

26:39

I was working odd jobs and you

26:41

know save up some money and you

26:43

know there was a point where I

26:45

got I got discouraged but I had

26:47

reached out I had some networks I

26:49

created during my undergrad and I was

26:52

I was very involved in the

26:54

university and in biology club and I

26:56

was an officer in there and I

26:58

had you know I did undergrad research

27:00

so I had a lot of connections

27:02

and obviously people had moved on but

27:04

I started reaching out to people and

27:06

a friend of mine Jordi who actually

27:08

worked for the agency I reached out

27:10

to her and we were talking and

27:12

she said that there this group was

27:14

looking for volunteers and I was I

27:16

was fortunate enough to have you know

27:18

the I guess the network within the

27:20

area but also have been able to

27:23

volunteer and I know I always say

27:25

the best way to really get a

27:27

job special in this field is volunteer

27:29

but even that I know you know

27:31

it's privileged in itself because not everyone

27:33

can work for free I mean it's

27:35

so hard because you know I always

27:37

say even just a few hours a

27:39

day if you can if you can

27:41

find it is better than nothing I

27:43

was able I kind of just gave

27:45

up my weekends so I was fortunate

27:47

in the weekends but my quote weekends

27:49

during the day, I just volunteered. So

27:51

I volunteered for about six to eight hours

27:53

a day for two times a week for a

27:55

few months, and it was

27:57

basically just training for the job.

27:59

So. I always tell people, I'm like, if you can

28:02

volunteer at several different places, if you

28:04

don't really know what you want to do

28:06

and you have the ability, try to find some

28:08

places and, you know, give it a month or

28:10

a few months, or just let them know that

28:12

you're just trying to figure out some things, but

28:14

you want to, you know, give them your time

28:16

and learn and learn from them. But just

28:18

explore, like, the time to volunteer is

28:20

a time to explore and you can

28:22

figure out. If you want to be

28:24

a zoo keeper, if you want to

28:26

work in the aquariums, you want to

28:28

do husbandry, for me, I did an

28:30

internship and I realized that husbandry full-time

28:32

wasn't for me. I loved husbandry, but

28:34

just full-time. I wanted more research. So

28:36

I knew that I needed to add

28:38

that in there. But I wouldn't have

28:40

known unless I tried. So I think doing

28:43

the internships and volunteering was just... it set

28:45

me up to figure out what I wanted

28:47

to do and it was also giving me

28:49

skill sets that I could have then apply

28:51

for the job applications and or give me

28:53

an in with someone was once a job

28:56

opened up and if I was in an

28:58

internship or a volunteer position I was

29:00

basically trained for the job. So when

29:02

I would instead of having to hire someone

29:04

that had never been familiar with the you

29:07

know their protocols and their procedures I had

29:09

been for months so it was a

29:11

natural progression into a position. I know

29:13

with like internships I did one paid

29:15

one through a moat marine. It was

29:17

a USF moat marine collab but it

29:20

was very similar to the REU program

29:22

I always tell like students

29:24

that are undergrads I said look

29:26

at the REU program it is

29:29

a paid internship program funded through

29:31

the NSF grants and I was like

29:33

it's a great time because you get

29:35

to do a full research you do

29:37

the research you are basically a lab

29:39

check that entire time you go in

29:41

the field and you do a full

29:43

poster presentation and basically like a manuscript

29:45

at the end publishing is dependent on

29:47

you know the the advisor but it

29:49

gives you a chance to really see what

29:52

research is from start to finish and you

29:54

know determine if do you like research I've

29:56

had friends that have done it and been

29:58

like research isn't for me I'd rather go

30:00

into teaching or do consulting. So I

30:02

always say like those are the opportunities where

30:05

you can get paid to do it, you

30:07

can experience what research is

30:09

like from a start to finish standpoint

30:11

and then be able to come out

30:13

of that with a really good skill

30:16

set and kind of set yourself up

30:18

for these jobs because you've also brought

30:20

in your network by just working with

30:22

all these people. Yeah, it's amazing. And

30:24

also, like, when you work for, like,

30:26

when you volunteer in a lab, like,

30:28

the REU program or any other lab,

30:30

you work on multiple projects. You learn

30:33

how to use different instrumentation. You learn

30:35

different methods of analysis and statistics and

30:37

all that. And you really get that

30:39

experience. So I love that. I love

30:41

how you volunteered. And I think, you

30:43

know what? Volunteers got a bad rap

30:45

over the last decade because there's been

30:47

a lot of, and I call them

30:49

like predatory organizations, where you have to

30:51

pay to do the work for them, which

30:53

I don't like. I really feel like that

30:56

is detrimental to not only being a marine

30:58

biologist, but just the work in general, but

31:00

I like what you did. Like, look, I'm

31:02

not saying this is not easy. You worked

31:04

all day in the field, and then you

31:06

go bartend at night, like on the weekends.

31:08

That's not easy. I don't care what anybody

31:10

says, that's hiring stuff. But you did it

31:12

because you loved it. You did it because

31:14

you wanted to do it and that was

31:16

the one way that you could do it.

31:18

Obviously if you could apply, get an interview

31:20

and get the job right away, that would have

31:23

been great too. But sometimes it just doesn't happen.

31:25

For a lot of us, it just doesn't

31:27

happen. Volunteering gives them the team a chance

31:29

to get to know you. Are you good

31:31

with the team? Do you fit

31:33

in with the team? Are you

31:35

hardworking? This shows you, you have,

31:37

it's like a long-term interview that

31:40

shows them what you can do,

31:42

and I think, and shows the

31:44

passion, going at that extra little

31:46

mile, and to put in, you

31:48

know, a number of hours on

31:50

the weekend for a couple of

31:52

months, or three or four months,

31:55

or whatever that might be, and

31:57

then you get a job, it's

31:59

worth it. and the power of putting yourself out there.

32:01

And what was nice is you didn't have to pay to do it.

32:03

You didn't have to go away to do it. It was right

32:05

in your backyard. So that helped too. I think that that was

32:07

really good. And then of course showing how good you are and

32:09

how excited you are to do the work. And like I said,

32:11

working in the field is never easy at all. And so to

32:13

show that you can do it and you enjoy it, I think

32:15

that's really helpful. That's really helpful. So that's great. So let's great.

32:17

So let's great. So let's go back. So let's go back to

32:19

go back to go back to go back to go back to

32:21

master's master's master's master's and master's and master's and

32:24

master's and and and and and and and job.

32:26

Those are not easy to do. We

32:28

talked to earlier, you married them together

32:30

by doing a project that I assume

32:32

was part of some of the work

32:34

that you were doing or maybe a

32:37

project that was going to happen. Can

32:39

you just talk a little bit

32:41

about how the project got married

32:43

together with the masters? So it was

32:45

kind of unintentional. I applied to the

32:48

university. Knowing that there was a field

32:50

lab up in the region, but didn't

32:52

know if it was going to work,

32:54

I was just going to make it

32:56

work, however I can. You know, if

32:58

I need to bump down to part-time

33:00

or I was just going to figure

33:02

it out. But I really want, I

33:04

really liked the program at Jackson University

33:07

and I, again, it. I will say what

33:09

drew me in was white sharks. You know

33:11

that not not very often you you get

33:13

a chance to work with them and I

33:15

saw it and I was like wow and

33:17

you know I had been following it was

33:19

such as I was a kid you know

33:21

watching them on TV and I was like

33:24

wow a chance to work with these large

33:26

individuals that I would never get a chance

33:28

to even be near and then you know

33:30

working with this organization where I could learn

33:32

so much from so many different people. and

33:34

go to school, I was like, this seems

33:36

too good to be true, but I was like,

33:38

let me go for it. So I applied and I

33:40

got in and I will say with JU's, they, you

33:42

don't, you don't go in with a project,

33:44

you spend your first semester meeting

33:47

with professors and kind of figuring out

33:49

projects and what's a good fit for

33:51

you and who is taking students. So

33:54

that was also nervewracking because I didn't

33:56

know if I was going to get

33:58

the project that I. necessarily wanted. So,

34:00

but it worked out because I, and

34:02

the main reason I, when I was

34:05

thinking about this particular project and this

34:07

university for grad school is I really

34:09

wanted a data heavy thesis. So I

34:11

had a lot of field work through

34:13

my normal work, but I was more

34:15

of a field biologist. I was doing,

34:17

you know, some analyses, but it was

34:19

more, I'm more in the field. I

34:21

mean. in shore and offshore. But the

34:23

analysis I could tell was where I

34:25

was lacking and I needed something for

34:27

grad school. I was like, this is

34:29

the time to kind of bring that

34:31

up to make me more of a

34:33

well-rounded scientist. And so with that project

34:35

through what I was using the O

34:37

search data, it is all tag data.

34:40

So it is all analyses. And so

34:42

it worked out because the field time

34:44

was more limited to certain expeditions, based

34:46

on time of year. midy-gritty of the

34:48

thesis is sitting in front of a

34:50

computer and learning our code and you

34:52

know you manipulating the tag data and

34:54

learning GIS and that was what I

34:56

wanted so it happened to work out

34:58

that what I was looking for out

35:00

of a master is kind of presented

35:02

itself at this university and kind of

35:04

gave me a chance and I think

35:06

because I had the field experience prior

35:08

that this was a good project for

35:10

me and kind of gave me that

35:13

ability to get this project because I

35:15

most times in a master's you're trying

35:17

to get that field experience but I

35:19

already had it. So this kind of

35:21

set me up in a unique way.

35:23

So my work has nothing to do

35:25

with my master's thesis in any way.

35:27

There's almost no overlap except for the

35:29

university and my office is in the

35:31

same building. That is the only overlap

35:33

and I didn't know they were in

35:35

the same building until I showed up

35:37

for orientation. and I was walking down

35:39

the hallway and I went, oh, I

35:41

guess this is my new office. That's

35:43

awesome. Well, and I think there's, there's

35:45

something to be said to you when

35:48

you have all that field work experience,

35:50

you know, you've worked at, so I

35:52

assume, and you can correct me if

35:54

you're probably working at your job for

35:56

about seven or eight years, and then

35:58

when you started your masters, is that.

36:00

What we're looking at, 2016, in and

36:02

around that time? 2016, was about, I

36:04

started technically in 2018, so I graduated

36:06

the two years off, 2018, I think

36:08

it was like three and a half,

36:10

three years, this year, which years, yeah,

36:12

which is good amount of field experience,

36:14

especially if you're in the field most

36:16

of the time in Florida, you can

36:18

be in the field all year long,

36:21

not like here in Ontario, or if

36:23

you're in the field all year long,

36:25

you're in the field experience, and then

36:27

you get to do. everything in front

36:29

of a computer, right? You know, multiple

36:31

monitors, looking at GIS, looking at spatial

36:33

analysis. Now, again, I say field work

36:35

is hard until you have to learn

36:37

our code. It's probably... It's like for

36:39

graduates like torture and watching graduates go

36:41

through it as I have in the

36:43

past and gone through it myself. It

36:45

is like like crying frustrating at times

36:47

like there's tears. It doesn't matter who

36:49

you are. It doesn't matter your gender.

36:51

You're going to cry at some point

36:54

in front of that computer because this

36:56

code is not working. Especially I bought

36:58

the Spatial Analysis Code book. before I

37:00

learned art and I looked at it

37:02

I'm like this I can't this is

37:04

this is a different language I don't

37:06

know what this is like it's hard

37:08

right I'm a GIS analyst as well

37:10

and so I learned a lot on

37:12

that and and once you said oh

37:14

yeah I got tagged data like for

37:16

decades of work for for white sharks

37:18

that that got my GIS going like

37:20

I was like okay this you're set

37:22

like you've got a cool species obviously

37:24

iconic and then being able to discover

37:26

and identify like you know spatial patterns

37:29

that we've discovered the last decade of

37:31

this of this great white population that

37:33

basically comes down to Jacksonville in the

37:35

winter and then and then goes is

37:37

it Jacksonville is it as far down

37:39

as Jacksonville or is it go to

37:41

Carolina is they going to well so

37:43

their overwintering region ranges from the Carolina

37:45

so the North Carolina especially out of

37:47

the outer banks all the way along

37:49

Florida into the Gulf so they can

37:51

even the the furthest point and through

37:53

the oh search tag telemetry is almost

37:55

near Texas. It's only a few points.

37:57

A lot of them will hang out

37:59

near Louisiana, but we do see them

38:02

all the way. And recently they have

38:04

found out about 50% of the tagged

38:06

individuals that they have actually make their

38:08

way into the Gulf, which I didn't

38:10

know. I mean, we didn't know up

38:12

until not that long. There was another.

38:14

project going on through a university I

38:16

can't remember which one but yeah they're

38:18

working on that right now which is

38:20

super cool I mean I remember even

38:22

eight six years ago thinking that white

38:24

sharks came to Florida was huge I

38:26

was like that's that's gonna be an

38:28

anomaly there's no way yeah and then

38:30

as more tag data you know has

38:32

become readily available and the technologies have

38:34

increased we have better chance and now

38:37

we realize they're along Florida all throughout

38:39

the winter, I mean, the Carolinas, I

38:41

mean, they use that coastline back and

38:43

forth all the time, and we don't,

38:45

and the thing is, there's a lot

38:47

of research being done in that New

38:49

England and Nova Scotia and Newfoundland area,

38:51

but this Southeast part of the United

38:53

States, we're beginning to get more data

38:55

on, that's kind of where my thesis

38:57

comes in, is we're beginning to kind

38:59

of get a better idea of how

39:01

they're utilizing this. How are they using

39:03

these areas? What are they doing while

39:05

they're here? What are their diving profiles

39:07

look like? Because we don't have the

39:10

information that we have here as they

39:12

do up in the north. Kensey, that

39:14

is so freaking cool. Like if you

39:16

think about like, I know we're geeking

39:18

out here, but this is so cool

39:20

to be like the white shark, like

39:22

jaws, you know, everybody's afraid of it.

39:24

You know, there's a whole history behind

39:26

it. We're hitting, we're hitting 50 years

39:28

of jaws in June this year. And

39:30

you get to discover like in the

39:32

50th year of Jaws that there's like

39:34

what they're doing in this area that

39:36

really we haven't known ever you know

39:38

that is so cool because you know

39:40

down the road 10 years. 20 years

39:43

down the road, you're going to tell

39:45

people like, yeah, I helped figure this

39:47

out. Like, I was, that was my

39:49

master's. I mean, my master's, I don't,

39:51

I mean, unfortunately, I don't have like

39:53

amazing data in a sense that like,

39:55

I did not answering all of these

39:57

like massively unenquestions, but I like to

39:59

think that I'm a part of the

40:01

stepping stones and the building blocks to

40:03

kind of understanding their movements. I played

40:05

my part in that, so like what

40:07

you were saying, yeah. But I wish

40:09

I could answer some of these bigger

40:11

like, you know, under like questions that

40:13

we can, you know, where are they

40:15

mating, you know, what are they eating,

40:18

you know, what are they eating on

40:20

it down there? Are they targeting certain

40:22

areas? Are they hot spots? There's like

40:24

so much we want to know, and

40:26

that's like when you're talking about questions,

40:28

and I'm like, I would have turned

40:30

it into a PhD too quickly. I

40:32

mind you I would I'm trying to

40:34

go for a PhD but I mean

40:36

not at the university they don't have

40:38

a PhD but right but he I

40:40

I was naturally just turning it into

40:42

and I you know the curiosity there

40:44

which is great but again you have

40:46

to like reel yourself in remind yourself

40:48

like focus on your questions at hand

40:51

because when you have too many questions

40:53

you're not you're never going to answer

40:55

anything because you have so many going

40:57

you have to like focus at like

40:59

the very the foundation get that done

41:01

and then if more projects come out

41:03

of that great but let's get the

41:05

masters let's get that that foundation project

41:07

done and then we can go from

41:09

there. I think every student, I went

41:11

through it, every student goes, because you're

41:13

like, you're asking all these questions, like,

41:15

what about this? What about this? Can

41:17

we figure out this? And then every

41:19

supervisor is like, hold on a second,

41:21

like, let's focus on finishing your master's,

41:24

then we'll, you know, we'll discuss other

41:26

papers and other questions. And I think

41:28

it's awesome, like, it's awesome to see,

41:30

because that's when the passion hits, right?

41:32

That's when you know, like, like, like,

41:34

like, like, like, like, like, like, you're

41:36

like, you're like, you're like, you're like,

41:38

you're like, you're like, you're like, you're

41:40

like, you're like, you're like, you're like,

41:42

you're like, you're like, you're like, you're

41:44

like, you're like, you're like, you're like,

41:46

you're like, you're like, you're like, you're

41:48

like, you're like, you're and what I

41:50

want to find out and what I

41:52

want to tell the world, like the

41:54

story to tell the world. It is

41:56

a story, is essentially what you're saying,

41:59

but you're using math to kind of

42:01

figure it out, you know, and geolocation

42:03

to figure it out. So I just

42:05

love that. I think it's cool. And

42:07

to be honest, speaking of storytelling, you're

42:09

doing a full-time job. You're doing a

42:11

master's. And then you've taken it upon

42:13

yourself to be like, you know, riff

42:15

on some videos and I'll just publish

42:17

them so that people can get to

42:19

know one, what I do, but also

42:21

what I love, what you were doing

42:23

with your parents back when you were

42:25

four or five years old snorkeling in

42:27

the Keys and being like, hey, have

42:29

you seen this like, it eats algae,

42:32

and it eats algae, and it does,

42:34

you're telling that to the people. Obviously

42:36

you're busy with a lot of things.

42:38

What made you decide to be like,

42:40

look, I'm going to start talking in

42:42

general. There's a few things. One is

42:44

more of just a funnier reason is

42:46

because I always said I love learning

42:48

I think it's just in all of

42:50

us scientists, but you know We'll be

42:52

in a conversation and someone's talking about

42:54

something and that I know a fun

42:56

fact and I'm like, oh fun fact

42:58

and so like I love just like

43:00

talking about things that I found out,

43:02

you know, if it's through a paper

43:04

or you know news article or you

43:07

know, journal like I I love to

43:09

just share the information. My friends share

43:11

a similar interest and so we always

43:13

kind of do this back and forth

43:15

and I thought about why not just

43:17

do this to the everyday public and

43:19

I do it with like my friends

43:21

and family who are not even in

43:23

this field and you know I also

43:25

and I start chatting and next thing

43:27

I know like I've given a full

43:29

45 minute lecture on some random topic

43:31

and I was like why don't I

43:33

just do this. for everyone. You know,

43:35

why don't I like make this accessible?

43:37

And I, you know, I think. I

43:40

always felt education is so important because

43:42

it was so inspiring to me and

43:44

I had teachers growing up that made

43:46

science fun and engaging and I always

43:48

wanted to kind of be a part

43:50

of that because I feel like when

43:52

science it can be boring it can

43:54

be tough it can be frustrating but

43:56

I think when you make it fun

43:58

and engaging and you get excited about

44:00

things you're going to want to learn

44:02

more and I think that's so important

44:04

as like Again fostering this curiosity even

44:06

even it doesn't have to be about

44:08

marine science But just in general like

44:10

just always questioning and asking and looking

44:13

at the world and you know through

44:15

different eyes and you know different perspectives

44:17

So I kind of really wanted to

44:19

one just have fun with it But

44:21

also just bring out fun facts because

44:23

you know sometimes I have a bunch

44:25

of fun facts about random fish that

44:27

people have never heard of and then

44:29

they get excited and they're like oh

44:31

I've never heard about what's that fish

44:33

and I'm hoping that by kind of

44:35

getting them excited and you know showing

44:37

them something that they've never seen before

44:39

that they're more likely to go research

44:41

it themselves or tell someone else about

44:43

it or when they see you know

44:45

an article or you know here you

44:48

know around town they'll be like oh

44:50

I actually have a fun fact about

44:52

that and then they'll start talking so

44:54

it just helps spread education and knowledge

44:56

what I think is just it's so

44:58

vital right now and I just again

45:00

and making it accessible because you know

45:02

marine science can be so limiting this

45:04

you know certain groups or you know

45:06

especially being around Florida like a lot

45:08

of people in you know in the

45:10

middle United States and landlocked states that

45:12

you know don't have access to the

45:14

beach 30 minutes down the road and

45:16

so some of these marine science classes

45:18

aren't available because the water is not

45:21

there and so it's only when they

45:23

come down in these states but when

45:25

with social media we have a way

45:27

to access the entire world. And so

45:29

it's it's always good to kind of

45:31

just put it out there. And so

45:33

that was kind of my thought process

45:35

was I love talking about science. I

45:37

love educating people. Why not do it?

45:39

Yeah. Through social media and use the

45:41

internet as like the best educational tool

45:43

that there is right now. You are

45:45

preaching to the choir. And I love

45:47

that though. But I think that's the

45:49

thing is it's fun for you. Again,

45:51

it's fun for you. You're already doing

45:53

it with your family and friends, right?

45:56

And maybe after a while, your family

45:58

and friends are like, okay, Kennedy, like,

46:00

hold your horses. That's happening all the

46:02

time. My wife will just like blaze

46:04

over and be like, okay, Andrew, get

46:06

it out of your system and move

46:08

on. But that's the thing. You go

46:10

to people, like, like, you don't know

46:12

who you're going to, who you're going

46:14

to do. So is, like, like, like,

46:16

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

46:18

like, like, like, like, like, like, what

46:20

was the goal, like, like, like, like,

46:22

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

46:24

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

46:26

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

46:29

like, like, like, like, like, like, Let's

46:31

be honest, like social media is its

46:33

own thing. Content creation is its own

46:35

thing. People make their living off of

46:37

content creation. Some even that are like

46:39

marine biologists make like, you know, they'll

46:41

have like there's a creator fund for

46:43

each platform and stuff and they could

46:45

make money off of this. What was

46:47

your goal when you start like you

46:49

pick TikTok, right? I assume pandemic, TikTok

46:51

started to blow up. You started to

46:53

see it like, hey, let's start using

46:55

it. It's a fun platform. What was

46:57

the goal when you first started? Was

46:59

it to get as many followers as

47:02

possible? Was it to get like big

47:04

that kind of stuff? What was the

47:06

goal? So I mean, it's natural to

47:08

want the followers and a big following,

47:10

but that wasn't the push. That wasn't

47:12

the reasoning behind it. The followers would

47:14

just be an added bonus to get

47:16

the information out to a broader audience.

47:18

I just wanted to get it out

47:20

there. And I, you know, I. I

47:22

always worry about, you know, the being

47:24

on social, I was, I was so

47:26

skeptical about doing this for so long,

47:28

so I never wanted someone to think

47:30

that I was doing it strictly for

47:32

the money or to be some type

47:34

of influencer or personality. That's not the

47:37

goal. If they were something to come

47:39

up because of being on social media,

47:41

great, that's just a bonus. But that's

47:43

not the root of it. That's not

47:45

reason why I was doing it. I

47:47

wanted to do it because I loved

47:49

it. We have misinformation can be spread

47:51

so easily. So I want to be

47:53

a part of the people that are

47:55

spreading correct information and showing people how

47:57

to research, how to look for, you

47:59

know. information that's you know incorrect

48:01

or be able to question things you

48:04

be like well you know that sounds

48:06

a little odd let me look this

48:08

up you know or oh that was

48:10

a that's a neat fact let me

48:12

look this up so I just wanted

48:14

to be part of the push to

48:16

just promote more learning and so like

48:18

the follower thing you know I picked

48:20

tick-talk just because It was so easily

48:22

accessible to so many people without necessarily

48:24

having to have followers. Like if you

48:26

have a Facebook or an Instagram, then

48:28

you usually have to follow you for

48:30

you to pop up on their page

48:32

or their feed. But with TikTok, they

48:34

can follow you so they can see

48:36

more of your stuff, but your videos

48:38

just get sent out to the world.

48:40

And so I think that will experiment

48:42

in front of everybody, right? Yeah. And

48:44

it's, I mean, it's nerve racking knowing

48:47

that you're putting yourself out there for.

48:49

millions of people to critique and criticize

48:51

and you know question you and so

48:53

you have to like take that in

48:55

his iteration you're like are you prepared

48:57

for people to question you you know

48:59

or they might make fun of you

49:01

you know for whatever reason so you

49:03

gotta have it's like a mental preparation

49:05

but also there was another part of

49:07

it that I thought it would be

49:09

a good practice for me you know

49:11

as a scientist and educator I always

49:13

feel like it's important to be able

49:15

to relay science to all audiences. So

49:17

we go to conferences and we use

49:19

all the scientific jargon and we talk

49:21

to people that are experts in what

49:23

we do and that's great. But we

49:25

need to be able to take that

49:27

to the public because the public is

49:30

excited. we get more people excited that

49:32

means usually more funding for us to

49:34

do more work. That's true. So so

49:36

when more people know about it more

49:38

people are like well yeah I'll donate

49:40

to that or yeah I'm more likely

49:42

to help pay for that or I'm

49:44

more you know it creates just a

49:46

better system overall. Yeah. But I just

49:48

I think being able to also explain

49:50

concepts to experts to the general public

49:52

and to children. just makes you, almost

49:54

solidifies concepts in your head and makes

49:56

you understand like, do I actually really

49:58

know what I'm talking about? I know

50:00

that sounds weird to say, but you

50:02

know, you get almost regurgitating some of

50:04

these textbook or, you know, scientific article

50:06

sentences because you're like, all right, this

50:08

is what it says and you just

50:10

say it and you state it and

50:12

that's just the fact. But it's not

50:15

until you're talking to. everyday people that

50:17

don't work in that and don't use

50:19

those types of terms, you know, might

50:21

not know the anatomy of sharks and

50:23

fish. And so you're talking about, you

50:25

know, cartilaginous, you know, fish and elasma

50:27

branks, you know, looking at the highway

50:29

arch. They don't know what that means.

50:31

So being able to take those higher

50:33

level concepts that you've become an expert

50:35

in and then relay them to the

50:37

general public in a way that they

50:39

can understand and get excited about was

50:41

kind of also that push where it's

50:43

like it also helps me practice as

50:45

a scientist to really understand the concepts

50:47

that I'm learning. and also researching. So

50:49

there were so many points to it,

50:51

but none of it really ever came

50:53

from, I want to get famous and

50:55

I want more followers. That was never.

50:58

No, I mean, I don't even have

51:00

that many followers and that's fine. I

51:02

just love doing it and I think

51:04

that if, and I always thought, is

51:06

my duty as a scientist to educate

51:08

people and put science out there for

51:10

everyone? And so I thought, you know,

51:12

if I am able to inspire or

51:14

educate. a handful of people, even one

51:16

person. If one person got inspired by

51:18

a video I made, then I have

51:20

done my duty as an educator as

51:22

a scientist to, you know, help future

51:24

generations or, you know, inspire someone else

51:26

to kind of learn more or pursue

51:28

a career. I love that. I love

51:30

that. And to kind of push back

51:32

on your like, I don't have many

51:34

followers. Somebody told me this one time

51:36

because like when I first started the

51:38

podcast I would get like maybe 10

51:40

downloads You know off the bat and

51:43

you're like oh, nobody's listening to my

51:45

stuff. Then I get like 50 downloads.

51:47

I'm like still complaining because I you

51:49

know hear Joe Rogan gets a million

51:51

and all this and everybody thinks that

51:53

oh I should be getting that. Somebody

51:55

told me this if you put like

51:57

if you have a hundred followers a

51:59

hundred downloads and you put a hundred

52:01

people in a classroom that's the standing

52:03

room only in a classroom right like

52:05

that's that's a huge amount of people

52:07

when you're presenting in front of a

52:09

classroom like in person. I'm looking at

52:11

your your profile here on Tik. You

52:13

have at this point you have 691

52:15

you have 691 and I'm sure that's

52:17

increasing followers. That's a lecture hall. That's

52:19

almost two lecture halls. That's a huge

52:21

lecture hall of people that you're teaching

52:23

each and every time you post that

52:26

it could potentially see it. And if

52:28

you're on TikTok, as you mentioned, the

52:30

amount is probably more than that that

52:32

are actually seeing your videos, right? Because

52:34

it's not just to your followers. It's

52:36

to everybody. You know, you just never

52:38

know who you're being presented to. So

52:40

I want you to think about that

52:42

way too. I want everybody think about

52:44

that. Like the audience here who's listening.

52:46

Like the audience here who's listening. You

52:48

never know who's going to see you.

52:50

You never know what impact you might

52:52

have. And I love that the thought

52:54

of like, if I can just get

52:56

one person to really get excited about

52:58

the ocean, who knows what that person

53:00

will do with that information, you just

53:02

never know. You never know who's listening.

53:04

You never know what they're going to

53:06

do. And I think that's the power

53:08

of being a creator and talking about

53:11

stuff. And we all get criticism. We

53:13

all get bots, we all get people

53:15

who take messages, you know, politically and

53:17

all this kind of stuff and they

53:19

don't know really what they're talking about.

53:21

I had a guy the other day

53:23

on my, I forget what platform it

53:25

was, but talking about the importance of,

53:27

talking about the importance of talking about

53:29

the ocean, how important it is to

53:31

talk to your friends and family, as

53:33

you know, right? You do it, you

53:35

do the same thing. And the guy

53:37

was like, well, who cares about the

53:39

ocean? Okay, yeah, I totally get it.

53:41

Like, that's not what we're talking about

53:43

here, like, completely different issues, you know,

53:45

but I get it. Like, it's, there's

53:47

other, people have other issues, but the,

53:49

you know, and, and you just never

53:51

know who you're getting to watch it,

53:54

what they're gonna comment, and you just

53:56

have to, like, answer those properly, and,

53:58

and. I'd like to try and be

54:00

nice to everybody. There's some of my,

54:02

I'm a little more aggressive with, but

54:04

every once in a while, you know,

54:06

there's people who are just genuinely worried

54:08

about other things in the world and

54:10

you're like, I get it. I responded,

54:12

I was like, I hope you do

54:14

something about it. Like, I hope you

54:16

do something about it. Like, I hope

54:18

you do something about it. Like, I

54:20

would love to hear, I'd love to

54:22

see what you create a lot of

54:24

people who have. change their lives because

54:26

of it. They've either gone to a

54:28

PhD or they've gone to change and

54:30

start an organization and all that kind

54:32

of stuff. So you just never know

54:34

who's going to listen. And it's also

54:36

cool, some of the stories you cover.

54:39

We just talked about this before we

54:41

press record. And I hope it's okay

54:43

to talk about this, but one of

54:45

your recent, I guess it was a

54:47

series of episodes. You did a couple

54:49

of parts. They give like four or

54:51

five parts of this. Could you talk

54:53

about this recent one. the views like

54:55

almost 40,000 views on that first video

54:57

of what was the scenario and why

54:59

did you feel the need to comment

55:01

so it's all so ridiculous and it

55:03

always makes me laugh what gets popular

55:05

on the internet and it's always this

55:07

just strange thing and it's always the

55:09

one thing you least expect you know

55:11

I was I think I was telling

55:13

you before this the videos that I

55:15

put the time and effort to you

55:17

know do their background research to find

55:19

the good images then to record and

55:22

then to edit you know there are

55:24

hours of time and effort you know

55:26

they get views I get some comments

55:28

I'm like yeah it's awesome the one

55:30

that I really wake up in the

55:32

morning do a response video to that

55:34

took me Five minutes maximum to do

55:36

gets the most views, but the video

55:38

was and I must date this this

55:40

video the statement is fake It was

55:42

a created statement, but at the time

55:44

I wasn't sure right so This woman

55:46

online stated that she was diving with

55:48

sharks and was wearing a sequined bikini

55:50

and had an encounter with the shark

55:52

and the internet lost its mind, you

55:54

know, there's a lot of people that

55:56

I was kind of happy to see

55:58

there. I was like, what are you

56:00

doing? You should never do that. You

56:02

would look like a giant fish. So

56:05

I was happy to see that people

56:07

were recognizing, yeah, that's probably a bad

56:09

idea. So I just commented one stating,

56:11

yes, everyone saying this is a bad

56:13

idea, yes, it is. You know, the

56:15

sequence reflect the light and they can

56:17

mimic fish scales. And when you're diving

56:19

with things that eat fish, you don't

56:21

want to look like that. And I'm

56:23

not saying just because she was wearing

56:25

that, that initiated that fake interaction, but

56:27

you don't want to put yourself in

56:29

any way, shape, or form in a

56:31

harm or in a way that could

56:33

create or allow the interaction to potentially

56:35

happen. I'm going to say that way.

56:37

Yeah. So you just want to be

56:39

cognizant of what you're doing. So I

56:41

stated that one. Just don't wear that.

56:43

I would suggest not wearing that. And

56:45

if you really want to wear it,

56:47

wear a wetsuit or wear a sun

56:50

shirt, wear something that takes away that

56:52

shimes. And I say the same thing.

56:54

With jewelry, it does the same thing.

56:56

You know, people go swimming with jewelry.

56:58

And I've actually had more closer interactions

57:00

with barracuda. then I have with sharks

57:02

and I've swam with hundreds of sharks

57:04

but the few bear excluded they you

57:06

know again I mentioned my bracelet keeping

57:08

it on and you're sitting there holding

57:10

it because that little bit of shine

57:12

kind of looks like a fish scale

57:14

and again even if it's not necessarily

57:16

looking like a fish it's something different

57:18

in the environment that something is going

57:20

to be curious about and then go

57:22

investigate it to figure out what is

57:24

this so you don't want to draw

57:26

that attention that that's not the attention

57:28

you're looking for about being in the

57:30

ocean and you know most times for

57:33

shark barges we're going to find sharks

57:35

but most people that are swimming in

57:37

the ocean aren't wanting they don't want

57:39

to find them so I made the

57:41

video and I wanted to make it

57:43

a few part series I wanted to

57:45

want to address the video but then

57:47

I wanted to bring up some good

57:49

points because it gave the perfect timing

57:51

to talk about safe swim practices you

57:53

know when you're on the water, you

57:55

know, you're going into another environment. You're

57:57

going into basically the home of all

57:59

these animals, including sharks, and you have

58:01

to be aware of what you're doing,

58:03

and you want to make sure you

58:05

are staying safe. You know, the reason

58:07

we have those flags of the beach

58:09

and we have all these signage, you

58:11

know, just explaining the area is for

58:13

information to make sure that you are

58:15

safe as a swimmer when you make

58:18

the decision to get in the water.

58:20

And so I talked about, you know,

58:22

not swimming near fishing near fishing. Fishermen,

58:24

you know, one, you don't want to

58:26

get caught up in the line. They

58:28

also have active bait. That bait is

58:30

in the water trying to attract everything

58:32

in that area. The last thing you

58:34

want to do is be near something

58:36

that's being attracted to that area. So

58:38

you don't, so that's just unsafe and

58:40

they kind of fall in the same

58:42

lines, peers. people are actively fishing all

58:44

along those piers. You don't want to

58:46

get caught up in the lines and

58:48

also there's so much fish in the

58:50

water that again it's attracting everything and

58:52

anything in that area to that region.

58:54

You don't want to be there. And

58:56

then marinas especially, you know, a lot

58:58

of people don't think well, people are

59:01

not fishing in marinas, but a lot

59:03

of fishermen come off their boats and

59:05

fillet their fish and throw in the

59:07

carcasses and throw in the carcasses. fish

59:09

and sharks and other marine animals realize

59:11

this is an area for easy food.

59:13

So they're more likely to hang out

59:15

there and be in that area trying

59:17

to get free food. If you already

59:19

get in that water, they, when they

59:21

hear at splash, they're not going to

59:23

be like, oh, wait, that's a person

59:25

I don't want, they see that they're

59:27

expecting what they've expected, you know, every

59:29

day that it's a fish carcass and

59:31

they can eat it. So again, you

59:33

don't want to put yourself in a

59:35

situation in a situation that could lead

59:37

to a situation that could lead to

59:39

a bad encounter. Again, just like the

59:41

sandbars and one that a lot of

59:43

people don't realize is that sandbars are

59:46

not a safe place to be. You

59:48

know, if it's really shallow in your

59:50

ankle deep and you can see everything

59:52

around you, that's fine. But also getting

59:54

to that sandbar, it usually drops off

59:56

and there's a dip. And the same

59:58

thing, it falls off. And usually in

1:00:00

those channels are a lot of bait

1:00:02

fish runs. but usually follow bait fish,

1:00:04

larger fish, and sharks. Again, you don't

1:00:06

want to put yourself in that situation

1:00:08

while you are in the middle of

1:00:10

a bait fish run while something is

1:00:12

actively feeding. They're not targeting you, they're

1:00:14

targeting that fish, but you are now

1:00:16

caught up in that. And that's usually

1:00:18

when those accounters happen. So I really

1:00:20

wanted to highlight these examples and been

1:00:22

like, hey, you know, this is a

1:00:24

bad scenario. I'm glad it was fake,

1:00:26

I'm glad she's okay. let's put out

1:00:29

some reminders of when you're in the

1:00:31

ocean you are in a new environment

1:00:33

and you have to be aware of

1:00:35

your surroundings and also talk to local

1:00:37

people a lot of people that go

1:00:39

and travel you know there are certain

1:00:41

areas I tell you not to swim

1:00:43

because you know again people could be

1:00:45

flaying carcasses and you know putting these

1:00:47

in the water there could just be

1:00:49

a lot of just fishing you just

1:00:51

never know and you want to make

1:00:53

sure when you're traveling and you're going

1:00:55

swimming swimming in an area that's not

1:00:57

a a scenario that would be negative.

1:00:59

So I just thought that was a

1:01:01

good time to kind of bring up

1:01:03

these points. And again, and I was

1:01:05

so happy that those videos actually did

1:01:07

well, but it was funny that they

1:01:09

took five minutes to make of just

1:01:11

being like, hey, don't do this, do

1:01:14

this, and you know, I'm glad she's

1:01:16

safe, but just don't wear a sequin

1:01:18

bikini. When we do stuff like this,

1:01:20

when we do create content, and we're

1:01:22

scientists, so we want to prepare, we

1:01:24

want to make sure that one, we're

1:01:26

factually correct, we double check, we confirm,

1:01:28

and then we present something that's interesting,

1:01:30

so we spend a lot of time

1:01:32

putting together videos, whether they be three

1:01:34

minute videos, ten minute videos, twenty minute

1:01:36

videos, whatever that might be, and then

1:01:38

they never really take off the way

1:01:40

we hope that they would. You might

1:01:42

get some views here, you might get

1:01:44

some views here, you get some views,

1:01:46

But then every once in a while

1:01:48

you'll get one that's just like, hey,

1:01:50

like, I just want to comment on

1:01:52

this. And then I just want to,

1:01:54

like, see what happens. And all of

1:01:57

a sudden, 40K, you know, views all

1:01:59

of it. And you're like, what? Are

1:02:01

you kidding me? I spent five minutes

1:02:03

talking about that. But I think. the

1:02:05

thing is is like what we don't

1:02:07

understand sometimes a scientist is that and

1:02:09

even communicates that people just want like

1:02:11

relevant content that's like you that's that's

1:02:13

different but it's also just simple simple

1:02:15

things that we need to say like

1:02:17

you know you and I if we

1:02:19

had talked about this just the two

1:02:21

of us just being like or other

1:02:23

scientists around just being like yeah that

1:02:25

was not what I would have done.

1:02:27

You know, I would not have worn

1:02:29

like a swim trunks that were sequenced

1:02:31

like probably not the best idea. But

1:02:33

to some people, like they want to

1:02:35

know more about like why it's not

1:02:37

a good like what's the problem with

1:02:40

that, you know, other than can't be

1:02:42

very comfortable to be honest like a

1:02:44

sequence bikini or any kind of being

1:02:46

sweet that sequence. And so like you

1:02:48

just you get that like you start

1:02:50

to and then all of a sudden

1:02:52

people are like oh that's simple information

1:02:54

okay I can digest that you know

1:02:56

no jargon no facts it's just hey

1:02:58

just probably not a better good idea

1:03:00

he said it in a nice way

1:03:02

you know you're very calm you had

1:03:04

your coffee with you I think that

1:03:06

was coffee is a coffee mug with

1:03:08

you just like okay I'm just I

1:03:10

got a comment on this like it

1:03:12

was a really like simplistic, like simplistic

1:03:14

informative entertaining kind of video that I

1:03:16

think people just get get behind right

1:03:18

sometimes I think we go for so

1:03:20

complicated that this the simple videos are

1:03:22

necessary to really I guess like because

1:03:25

you had a good story to tell

1:03:27

too but it's like it just hits

1:03:29

people you know that emotion I just

1:03:31

love love that aspect of it right

1:03:33

and you just you just never know

1:03:35

what's gonna go you know especially in

1:03:37

tic-tac you just it can take off

1:03:39

within like minutes and you're just like

1:03:41

what the heck happened like it's it's

1:03:43

awesome but I love how you did

1:03:45

that that that story and it was

1:03:47

a number of part and it was

1:03:49

just it got good views all the

1:03:51

way through and I just love that

1:03:53

I just love that aspect so you

1:03:55

know as we kind of wrap up

1:03:57

here the science communication I feel like

1:03:59

it's never going to go away from

1:04:01

you something that you've really done what

1:04:03

do you want to do like in

1:04:05

the field like this is kind of

1:04:08

you're just scratching the surface right now

1:04:10

I feel do you have any plans

1:04:12

for science communication something that you want

1:04:14

to be able to be able to

1:04:16

accomplish trying to manifest and put it

1:04:18

out there for us. So a few

1:04:20

things. One, looking at a PhD to

1:04:22

kind of continue to go more into

1:04:24

science and I would love to go

1:04:26

into academia to, again, to kind of

1:04:28

continue that science communication, you know, in

1:04:30

the college classroom. And I also would

1:04:32

like to be able to film my

1:04:34

journey and also like with this podcast,

1:04:36

you know, with the other people you've

1:04:38

interviewed, you know, you show their their

1:04:40

journey and everyone's or either. different but

1:04:42

there's always so the similarity and people

1:04:44

might be able to connect and be

1:04:46

like wow okay you know I didn't

1:04:48

get a job right away and neither

1:04:50

did she but she's doing this so

1:04:53

you know it's possible for me so

1:04:55

there's that aspect so definitely a PhD

1:04:57

and being able to show the journey

1:04:59

and show the research and again just

1:05:01

show research that most people might ever

1:05:03

get a chance to see or didn't

1:05:05

even know existed and get people excited

1:05:07

but with In the meantime, I mean,

1:05:09

the PhD search is a daunting one.

1:05:11

I've been working for hours on top

1:05:13

of everything else. I was, you know,

1:05:15

in between, I'm like looking at universities

1:05:17

and, you know, looking at finding professors,

1:05:19

but it's, they don't really tell you

1:05:21

how hard it is to really find

1:05:23

someone that matches your research interests, that

1:05:25

also will give you a chance to

1:05:27

broaden your skill set. and get you

1:05:29

a chance to, you know, work with

1:05:31

something that you may have worked before,

1:05:33

or, you know, continue working with what

1:05:36

you're working with. But, but, you know,

1:05:38

with my, with my white shark stuff,

1:05:40

like, I don't always have to do

1:05:42

white sharks. I like the shark stuff,

1:05:44

but I would like to, you know,

1:05:46

expand on it, work another species, or,

1:05:48

you know, I like the tagging in

1:05:50

telemetry stuff, so it may be that.

1:05:52

But in the meantime, I'm up for

1:05:54

an election. So in the, in Florida,

1:05:56

we have Florida Marine Science Educators Association.

1:05:58

So it's an association for all the

1:06:00

educators that teach marine science, I mean,

1:06:02

things for all levels, I think primarily

1:06:04

it's like. more like middle school and

1:06:06

high school teachers in it. Yeah. But

1:06:08

I'm up for the Northeast regional director

1:06:10

position and I feel like I have

1:06:12

a pretty good chance. I'm the only

1:06:14

person on the ballot for that. So

1:06:16

I'm so far. Nobody else vote. Just

1:06:18

go. So I mean, I think there's

1:06:21

no one else running up against me.

1:06:23

So I think I have a pretty

1:06:25

good chance. Yeah. But a friend of

1:06:27

mine, Chelsea, she's the president elect. So

1:06:29

she's starting this this coming year. She

1:06:31

reached out to me, we both would

1:06:33

work together in the past, and she'd

1:06:35

asked me if I wanted to be

1:06:37

a part of this. And, you know,

1:06:39

part of me was a little nervous,

1:06:41

being like, do I add something else

1:06:43

to my plate? Yeah. But it's education,

1:06:45

and I'm like, I can spin this

1:06:47

into my tick talk, and I already

1:06:49

do a lot of education outreach events

1:06:51

personally myself. So I was like, this

1:06:53

will just be an extension of that

1:06:55

and kind of give me more chances

1:06:57

or you know, they just basically I

1:06:59

will be helping facilitate events in the

1:07:01

area putting out newsletters about events that

1:07:04

are pertaining to marine science or education

1:07:06

in the area you know facilitating conferences

1:07:08

or just group meetups to make sure

1:07:10

that you know anyone in the area

1:07:12

and then it also kind of helps

1:07:14

me in a way to have more

1:07:16

of a board and leadership role that

1:07:18

can yeah again get me new experiences

1:07:20

in that so That's kind of like

1:07:22

my short term and long term goals

1:07:24

and what's currently kind of going on

1:07:26

to continue this. So even though I'm

1:07:28

a researcher, the education part obviously is

1:07:30

so important to me. So this educator

1:07:32

association kind of gives me that chance

1:07:34

to do it on a bigger and

1:07:36

again a professional level on top of

1:07:38

just the fun Tiktoks. But I can

1:07:40

also use my Tiktoks in this and

1:07:42

promote both the association and just talk

1:07:44

about everything and I think everything is

1:07:46

so linked together that I feel like

1:07:49

this was a good move and I

1:07:51

hope that people can benefit from this

1:07:53

and I hope that I can bring

1:07:55

something new to the table. and that

1:07:57

they, you know, I can open the

1:07:59

doors for some people or get people

1:08:01

together that are like-minded and making, you

1:08:03

know, again, help the Northeast Florida portion,

1:08:05

you know, of Florida to get just

1:08:07

excited about marine science and get more

1:08:09

people involved. I love it. I agree

1:08:11

with you. I think it's working. I

1:08:13

think you're doing it and you're getting

1:08:15

bigger and bigger things and I just

1:08:17

love it. Kennedy, this has been awesome

1:08:19

to have you on the podcast. This

1:08:21

is the first, definitely not last time,

1:08:23

I'd like to have you on the

1:08:25

podcast, I'd love to have you back.

1:08:27

And as you do more research, as

1:08:29

you do more science communication, whether that

1:08:32

be through Tiktaks, whether it be through

1:08:34

like a regional area and having influence

1:08:36

on how people, how kids are being

1:08:38

educated, I think it's wonderful to be

1:08:40

part of the conservation. to really connect

1:08:42

with people and I think you're doing

1:08:44

that in a fantastic way. It's obviously

1:08:46

working, whether you're talking about sequence bikinis

1:08:48

or you're talking about, you know, evolutionary

1:08:50

advantages that fish can have. I just

1:08:52

love it. I want to thank you

1:08:54

so much for coming on the show

1:08:56

and, you know, if people want to

1:08:58

get a hold of you, your TikTok

1:09:00

is at Ken.c's, but Ken.cz, but Ken.c.

1:09:02

We'll put the link in the show

1:09:04

notes. In case TikDok gets banned for

1:09:06

whatever reason means where I'm currently in

1:09:08

the United States and I know a

1:09:10

world, the one's dealing with it, I'm

1:09:12

on Blue Sky and I think there's

1:09:15

another, it's called Skylight Social, the new

1:09:17

one that just popped up. I just

1:09:19

added, it's linked to Blue Sky, so

1:09:21

they're kind of connected. I will be

1:09:23

also starting a educational like Instagram, all

1:09:25

the same handles. Ken. You can follow

1:09:27

me on all the platforms on that

1:09:29

way. I'll put all those links in

1:09:31

the show notes and I want to

1:09:33

thank you again Kensey for coming on

1:09:35

the podcast. It's been great. Thank you

1:09:37

for having me. It was a great

1:09:39

time. Thank you Kensey for joining me

1:09:41

on today's app. of the How to

1:09:43

Protect the Ocean podcast and sharing your

1:09:45

story with the audience. It was great

1:09:47

to be able to hear how you

1:09:49

started, where you're ending up now, and

1:09:51

where you're going to go in the

1:09:53

future in your goals. And I think

1:09:55

it's amazing. I can't wait to see

1:09:57

what you come up with, and I

1:10:00

can't wait to see what you come

1:10:02

up with, and I can't wait to

1:10:04

have you back on the podcast, to

1:10:06

talk more about sharks, more about marine

1:10:08

biology, and science communication. It's all stuff

1:10:10

that we love. than her, much older

1:10:12

than her, and you know, we've had

1:10:14

very similar sort of experiences learning GIS

1:10:16

and, you know, working right after university

1:10:18

and going back and doing graduate school.

1:10:20

So we have that experience and we

1:10:22

have that field experience that we have

1:10:24

that field experience that we're able to

1:10:26

do a master's where we're able to

1:10:28

do a master's, where we're looking at

1:10:30

more data intense masters and research, and

1:10:32

so I think it's really cool that

1:10:34

we have that similar path, that type

1:10:36

of story and to know that you

1:10:38

know what not everybody has a unique

1:10:40

path I mean this is unique in

1:10:43

her own right but it's very similar

1:10:45

to a lot of us who are

1:10:47

coming out and doing more science communication

1:10:49

I just love to see that and

1:10:51

enjoying it not having like you know

1:10:53

crazy goals of earning a ton of

1:10:55

money becoming an influence is just educating

1:10:57

for one person so that they can

1:10:59

understand the ocean a little bit better

1:11:01

and that's made her day. I just

1:11:03

love that aspect you know just keeping

1:11:05

it real keeping it you know just

1:11:07

right in front of you and just

1:11:09

being like I just want to talk

1:11:11

about the ocean because I'm gonna do

1:11:13

it anyway I might as well do

1:11:15

it on a platform where people can

1:11:17

listen and if they're looking for that

1:11:19

type of resource they've got it. So

1:11:21

I'm going to put the links to

1:11:23

Kenzi's TikTok to her new Instagram that's

1:11:25

coming out to Blue Sky in the

1:11:28

show notes. Check it out and I'd

1:11:30

love to hear your comment on her

1:11:32

career. You know, are you following a

1:11:34

similar path? Do you want to follow

1:11:36

a similar path? Do you want to

1:11:38

follow a similar path? Hit me up

1:11:40

on Instagram at How to Protect the

1:11:42

Ocean or you can hit me up

1:11:44

in the comments if you're watching this

1:11:46

on YouTube and I would love to

1:11:48

hear your thoughts about all of your

1:11:50

thoughts about all of this. So thank

1:11:52

you. of the Hatter protecting ocean podcast.

1:11:54

your host, host Lewin,

1:11:56

from The from the True

1:11:58

North Strong Have a

1:12:00

great day. We'll talk

1:12:02

to you next

1:12:04

time next happy conservation. conservation.