0:01

All right, welcome to the Bulldogs. We're

0:05

in the ready room of the

0:07

525th Fighter Squadron at Joint Base

0:09

Elmendorf Richardson in Anchorage, Alaska. The

0:13

ready room's kind of like a homeroom for

0:15

air crews. Comfortable chairs and

0:17

tables, plaques on the walls and mementos all

0:19

over the place. Huge windows

0:21

looking out to the flight line and the runways. They

0:24

do mission briefings here, weather updates and sort

0:26

of hang out too. You go straight

0:28

ahead towards the piano. Straight ahead

0:31

toward the piano. Kind of the same

0:33

except a lot nicer as

0:35

when I was flying back in the mid and late 1980s off

0:38

the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt. Oh, you

0:40

freaking Air Force guys have everything, man. Jesus.

0:43

Sorry. I was Navy. We

0:45

were spending months at sea, training flights,

0:48

keeping an eye on the Soviets. Ready

0:50

seven on the Theodore Roosevelt was our ready room.

0:54

And it had some of this stuff. And then it had,

0:56

you know, rows and rows of chairs. And we'd sit there

0:58

for, you know, pre flights and movie nights

1:00

and what have you. We would

1:02

drink really bad coffee and play lots of

1:04

games to kill time. Cards and AC Doosie

1:07

mostly. Here though, popcorn

1:09

machine shut up. There are snacks.

1:11

There he is. There's the dog.

1:14

And a bulldog. Hi, there's Argos. His

1:16

name is Argos. He is the mascot

1:18

of the 525th. They

1:21

fly F-22 Raptor fighters, which is

1:23

what I'm actually here to see.

1:25

There you go. Oh, yeah. Looks

1:27

like a squadron. Orange foam earplugs in place

1:30

into the hangers. We go with Colonel Phil

1:32

Lancaster. He's the deputy commander of the 11th

1:34

Air Force. So because it's the Bulldogs, these

1:36

are the Kennels. That's

1:39

pretty good. Kennel three. And

1:42

then you can see the bays

1:44

on the north side. More

1:46

important, the star of the show, a flying

1:48

machine that costs hundreds of millions of dollars.

1:51

Have you been up to a Raptor before? Not this close.

1:54

I left the service when we

1:56

were still flying Tomcats and, you know,

1:59

original Arnets. you're

6:00

struggling, maybe you can't change the situation,

6:04

you have to just in your mind embrace

6:06

it, lean in, tough

6:08

it out and try to move forward, embrace the

6:10

suck and get to the other side.

6:13

The situation we're in with climate change is

6:16

bad. There's really no turning

6:18

back the clock and in the face

6:20

of that the Pentagon has in

6:23

some ways embraced the suck. They've

6:28

set a lot of really aggressive goals, goals

6:30

that imagine a more climate friendly and more

6:32

resilient force, there is the big one, to

6:35

decarbonize by 2050. But

6:37

each branch, Army, Navy, all of

6:39

them also have their own

6:41

custom climate action plans with goals they've committed

6:44

to over the next 10 or

6:46

20 years. They're talking

6:48

about electrifying whole fleets of vehicles,

6:50

making tens of thousands of buildings

6:52

more efficient and exploring

6:54

hydrogen and nuclear power too. The

6:58

DoD has been investing in climate

7:00

adaptation and mitigation for years. So

7:02

today an episode about

7:04

the possibilities, what's actually going on

7:07

on the ground. Hi,

7:10

how's it going? You guys are more than

7:12

welcome to be in your car, you're just

7:14

gonna follow me on the base. Marine

7:17

Corps Air Station Miramar is about 15 miles

7:19

north of downtown San Diego and

7:21

we're headed into a glass box of an office with

7:24

a big frosted logo that reads Marine

7:26

Corps energy. So this is your kingdom

7:28

in here right? This was the last

7:30

part of the Navy, this

7:32

was like the last Navy facility. This used to

7:34

be a naval

7:37

air station. You might have heard of Miramar, it's where

7:40

Top Gun used to be. Yes,

7:42

that Top Gun from the movie. There

7:44

are still fighters there, Marine Corps jets

7:46

now, but also something completely

7:48

different. This floor was a machine

7:50

shop and so I kept

7:53

the floor open so you could see all the

7:55

scars and the stains and then put all the

7:57

new stuff inside next to the old,

8:01

the juxtaposition, if you will, of the energy

8:04

evolution. We've

8:06

come to see Miramar's microgrid. Microgrids

8:10

are mentioned a lot in the Pentagon's climate plans

8:12

as a way to make the DOD more energy

8:14

resilient. In fact, the Army

8:16

has promised to put a microgrid on every

8:18

single one of its bases by 2035, because

8:23

after planes, bases themselves are the

8:25

other big energy suck for the

8:27

military. Tell us who you are and what

8:29

you do around here, Mick. Mick Wasco,

8:32

currently I am working

8:35

at Marine Corps Installations Command

8:38

as energy operations. So

8:40

I was just recently promoted to help the

8:42

rest of the Marine Corps do these types

8:45

of projects. Congratulations on the promotions. Now

8:47

you're in charge of this all over the Marine Corps. In

8:49

charge, I wouldn't say on the news.

8:52

He's being humble right there, because he's got a

8:54

passion for this stuff. Mick's been working on this

8:56

particular microgrid for more than

8:58

a decade. So layman's terms, how

9:01

does this thing work? A microgrid

9:03

is defined as

9:06

a electrical

9:09

definable boundary that

9:11

can be both disconnected from the

9:14

utility and also connected to the

9:16

utility. A microgrid

9:18

is basically a self-sufficient energy

9:21

system. The key thing is

9:23

that it can be totally disconnected from a

9:25

utility if needed. Be completely

9:27

off the grid. They call that islanding

9:29

the base. Imagine a

9:31

tropical storm hitting the city and taking down power

9:33

lines or an earthquake maybe. Point

9:36

is, the city's power's out. And

9:39

a microgrid is what you want to have, because

9:41

it's a system that generates and distributes energy

9:43

that will keep your base, which

9:46

is basically a small town, going. So

9:48

we have sort of a chart of the schematic of how

9:50

the microgrid basically works, right? We've got a map of the

9:52

base and then an org chart. Yes.

9:56

Organization electrically, if you will. I will.

22:00

fuel a year all by itself.

22:03

And this pilot plant produces about

22:05

30 gallons of staff

22:07

a day. 30

22:10

gallons ain't going to do it. We need 300 million and more.

22:14

Right. Does this get us there? This

22:17

does actually. They've got two ways

22:19

to scale, Staff Sheehan says. First, a much

22:21

bigger refinery making millions of gallons a year.

22:23

So each gallon will cost way less to

22:26

make. He says they'll have their

22:28

first commercially viable plant in the next three

22:30

years. Second, they're making their

22:32

system small enough to put on a truck

22:34

or into a cargo plane and deploy to

22:37

war zones or contested parts of the world.

22:39

This is a beast. It's a cage kind

22:41

of thing like. It's basically the size of

22:43

a shipping container. Nick Steinke was

22:45

one of the first employees hired at Air

22:48

Company. He's senior engineering manager now. And

22:50

he's showing me the actual setup of the staff

22:52

refinery, all the tubes and all the equipment designed

22:55

to fit on the back of a semi. Think

22:57

about places on remote islands in the Pacific

22:59

areas in Alaska, where the only way you

23:01

get fuel there is find it in a

23:04

plane, which kind of doesn't logically make sense

23:06

because you're using fuel to deliver fuel. They

23:08

like this idea. So just to be clear,

23:10

the idea would be to take something like

23:12

this or maybe a little bigger or maybe

23:14

two of them side by side, whatever, and

23:16

plop it in quadra

23:18

lean or Barrow or wherever they need fuel,

23:21

right? Yeah, they don't have their own grid

23:23

and don't have their own pipelines. Yeah. And

23:25

create it that way. Yeah, exactly. If there's

23:27

a source of water, if there's a source

23:29

of electricity and we can get CO2 from

23:31

somewhere, we can make fuel on site. Which

23:34

would be a game changer? In

23:37

the mid 2000s in Iraq and Afghanistan,

23:39

access to fuel was a logistics and

23:41

a security nightmare. It cost an

23:43

estimated $400 a gallon to get fuel where

23:47

it needed to be and fuel convoys

23:49

then became easy targets for roadside bombs.

23:52

Hundreds of soldiers were killed protecting

23:54

those trucks. So while this

23:57

staff is more climate friendly, it could

23:59

also make the military less vulnerable.

24:04

Talking to Nick and Staff Sheehan, and

24:06

lots of others who are working in labs and

24:08

R&D doing things like making jet fuel literally out

24:10

of thin air, you see

24:12

so much optimism about what might be possible.

24:16

Part of that's just entrepreneurs and

24:18

how they're wired. Part of it, not

24:20

to be crass, is the Department of Defense

24:22

putting its climate change money where its mouth

24:24

is like the $65 million that air companies

24:27

are looking at. And part

24:29

of it is taking Pentagon leadership at their

24:31

word. We make significant

24:33

investments to advance ourselves specifically

24:35

around the climate crisis, and

24:38

we'll keep doing that. Coming

24:40

up after the break, Deputy Secretary of

24:42

Defense Kathleen Hicks. Hey,

24:49

everybody, it's Kai. Quick PSA here.

24:51

It might sound like fun and games. And

24:53

I don't think you've flown helicopters before, is

24:55

that true? I did once, and it was

24:58

very ugly. Okay. I mean, I didn't last

25:00

more than five minutes. True, literally. I think

25:02

this will be a very different experience for

25:04

you. But in all seriousness, we work hard

25:06

to bring you high quality storytelling and fact

25:08

based journalism. As a

25:11

public media podcast, we exist to make

25:13

everybody smarter, regardless of their ability to

25:15

pay. But if you are in

25:17

a position to support our journalism, we

25:19

need you. Please give what you can

25:21

to support this podcast and similar reporting

25:23

from Marketplace. Go to marketplace.org/survive

25:25

or follow the link in our

25:28

show notes. So

25:37

first of all, coming to the Pentagon by Metro,

25:39

it's a totally new deal. There's a whole

25:42

brand new visitor center. It's

25:44

not the way it was when I was

25:46

here. The security requirements

25:48

seem to be much higher, which makes

25:51

sense out of September

25:53

11. After I spent four years

25:55

flying in the Navy, I spent my last couple

25:57

of years on active duty at the Pentagon. partner-sourced

28:01

capability for a battery, that's

28:03

very much to our benefit. I

28:07

wanted to talk to Secretary Hicks because,

28:09

bigger picture, her portfolio includes

28:12

the Defense Department's goals around

28:14

climate like the decarbonization of

28:16

the entire military. We

28:18

should say the DOD's total emissions have

28:21

been coming down steadily for the past

28:23

decade or so, but it is still

28:25

a huge number. Hicks pointed out in

28:27

a speech a couple of years ago

28:30

that the Department of Defense is responsible

28:32

for 75% of the entire federal government's

28:34

carbon emissions. Our

28:38

position in the global security infrastructure,

28:40

right, internationally and also just domestically

28:43

the way we do it, depends

28:45

on the DOD making, I'm

28:48

sure, it's dozens and dozens and dozens of flights

28:50

a day of C-17s to the other side of

28:52

the planet, which burns, I don't know, many tens

28:54

of thousands of pounds of JP8, right? Is

28:58

our current national security

29:00

infrastructure compatible with fighting

29:02

climate change? Well, we're adapting.

29:05

I think we are world-class right

29:07

now and what we see is

29:10

the increasing threats and challenges caused

29:12

by severe weather

29:15

or changing sea

29:17

levels, all of which

29:19

is exacerbated in terms of the frequency of

29:22

challenges and the scale of challenges by climate

29:24

change. And so we're getting in front of

29:26

that. And I do think we're

29:28

doing that. We have ambitious goals. And

29:31

so the challenge to us is making sure we stay

29:34

on top of those goals and make sure we make

29:36

the adaptation as quickly as possible. We've been doing a

29:38

lot of reporting at the operational level, at

29:40

J-BEAR and at the

29:42

radar installation up in Utukia,

29:44

and the Coast Guard at

29:47

Kodiak Island, which was spectacular,

29:49

by the way, super impressive, those folks.

29:53

The vibe up there when you say, listen, what

29:55

are you thinking about climate change? Their

29:58

response is... I'm

30:00

paraphrasing, I have a mission to do and I

30:02

can't think about that stuff. What do you say to that? Yeah,

30:05

I think it's part and parcel of our mission.

30:08

And I do think there's, you

30:10

know, it's inevitable that with the

30:12

politicization around the terminology of climate

30:15

change that our apolitical military that

30:17

we protect so carefully to ensure

30:19

that they can be focused on

30:21

mission, I think

30:24

that has created some challenges. There's

30:26

no doubt about that. We're very

30:29

focused in the Biden administration on

30:31

making sure that we get after climate

30:33

change. We're very upfront about it.

30:37

There's no competition between that and

30:39

being focused on what the warfighter

30:41

needs. In fact, they're not

30:44

only aligned, but we're advancing what the warfighter needs

30:46

when we're paying attention to how to make sure

30:49

that she or he is able to be resilient

30:51

in the face of the effects of climate change.

30:53

So we know we have work to do inside

30:55

our force, but I think the larger political climate

30:57

has work to do to help us out. Since

31:01

you brought it up, I do have to talk about the political

31:03

climate. This is an election year, as you know. It's

31:06

a toss up as to what's going to happen in November. But

31:09

if there's a change in administrations, the

31:12

federal government's attitude towards climate change is

31:14

going to change. What

31:16

do you make of that? And all

31:18

the, sorry, and all the work that you and

31:20

the National Security Establishment has been doing for many,

31:23

many years, including in the first Trump administration. Look,

31:25

I have to believe that any administration that will

31:27

come in wants to advance what's good for the

31:29

warfighter. In our last budget, we

31:31

requested about $5 billion. We

31:33

got $4.5 billion. Someone

31:35

might say, well, you didn't get $500 million. And

31:38

I say, well, we got $4.5 billion. That

31:41

tells you something about the degree

31:43

of bipartisan support behind the scenes.

31:45

So we'll keep working at that. We'll keep making

31:48

our case. We'll keep showing how it advances warfighter

31:50

effects. And I think we'll keep making progress. $5

31:53

billion ain't nothing, but in an $860-ish

31:55

billion budget, it's not a whole lot.

31:57

It's a lot. We make

31:59

significant investments to advance ourselves

32:01

specifically around the climate um...

32:03

crisis uh... and we'll

32:05

keep doing that uh... there are lots of other

32:07

investments probably not counted in that but i think

32:10

we do a healthy healthy investment possible

32:13

that what needs to happen is that the

32:16

depending on the permanent fence the military so

32:19

excellent needs to get smaller if we're going to

32:21

meet our climate goals i don't

32:23

think there's a direct connection between

32:25

the size of the military and

32:27

climate i think the better

32:29

way to think about it is the innovations

32:31

technologies really opened up a number of ways

32:33

in which we can be uh...

32:36

much more effective as a military and it

32:38

turns out we're more sustainable military so i

32:41

would think about it that way let's

32:46

be honest here the american military

32:48

establishment's not going to get any smaller whether

32:51

that's because of legitimate global security challenges

32:53

that only the united states is capable

32:55

of handling or

32:57

because of domestic politics remember

33:00

there are military retirees defense

33:02

contractors or bases themselves in

33:04

every single congressional district so

33:07

the gains in the pentagon mitigating or

33:09

reducing its carbon footprint are

33:11

going to come at the margins through those small steps

33:13

that we've been talking about in this episode but

33:17

if the size of the military is not going to change

33:19

if we keep all of the nearly eight hundred

33:21

bases that the pentagon has around the world what's

33:24

that going to mean for the bases that are

33:27

literally gonna be washed away an

33:33

army base and a really big radar dish

33:35

in the middle of the pacific ocean coming

33:38

up next time i'm

33:43

cai rizdol sophia police a car

33:45

produced this episode now we

33:48

survived team includes haley hershmann and katie ruther

33:50

caitlyn ash is the supervising senior

33:53

producer nancy fargali is our editor

33:55

sound design and original scoring by

33:57

chris julian mixing by brian

33:59

allison