0:57

This is Howie Mandel and I'm on

0:59

the set of my other podcast that

1:01

I usually do and will always do

1:03

with the lovely Harlan Williams. It's called

1:05

When a Stranger Calls and we'll put

1:07

it up on the screen right here.

1:10

Put it up on the screen, I

1:12

want people to subscribe, I want you

1:14

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1:16

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1:18

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more information and now back to

1:48

this podcast Army Hammer, ladies and

1:50

gentlemen, movie star, actor, father, podcaster.

1:53

True. All the above. I wear many

1:55

hats. You do? Yeah. You're not

1:57

wearing one today. That's true.

2:00

You just started a podcast. Yeah,

2:02

it's funny. I have found that

2:04

I actually have to limit how

2:06

often I wear hats because I've

2:08

noticed that when I'm wearing a

2:10

hat, it actually means I'm trying

2:12

to hide. And that's why I had

2:14

a beard last time I came in here.

2:16

Yes. And I talked to Billy. Hat and

2:19

a beard and sunglasses. I feel like I'm

2:21

invisible. but I also know that like that's

2:23

not what I'm supposed to be doing I'm

2:25

not supposed to be hiding I should be

2:28

cool I should be cool with myself here

2:30

I am I know I was here when

2:32

you were here with Billy and you know

2:34

he at the beginning you kind of leaned

2:37

in to for somebody that's talking about wearing

2:39

a beard and a hat you also at the

2:41

beginning when he was yeah But I don't

2:43

know that that's the answer either because I

2:46

do that too But I feel like that's

2:48

just the other side of the pendulum swing

2:50

of don't people who don't know what we're

2:52

talking about you do you led into the

2:54

controversy correct and listed yourself as yeah as

2:56

a cannibal But I don't know that that's

2:59

the answer either and it's funny because when

3:01

I did that like the second I cracked

3:03

that joke there was part of me that

3:05

was like you don't need to be doing

3:07

this to be bringing this with you everywhere

3:09

kind of thing So just to that,

3:12

but you even are having

3:14

very open controversial conversations.

3:17

You had your mom on

3:19

the podcast? I mean, so

3:22

you're not leaning away from

3:24

uncomfortable? No, because I feel

3:27

like being uncomfortable makes me

3:29

uncomfortable, obviously, but when I'm

3:31

uncomfortable, it's kind of like

3:34

that's when you grow. You

3:36

know, it's almost like a...

3:38

Okay, we're already getting all this way into this

3:41

like my metaphors, but it's like it's like

3:43

a pearl, right? Like when a, when a,

3:45

when a, when an oyster gets a grain

3:47

of sand inside of it, it becomes uncomfortable.

3:49

That's why it coats that, that grain of

3:51

sand, coats it again, coats it again, coats

3:53

it again until it becomes a beautiful pearl.

3:55

So leaning away from the discomfort I have found

3:57

is not how I want to live my life.

4:00

Are you in therapy now? Yeah.

4:02

Yeah. And I would imagine

4:04

going through, I'm a proponent

4:06

of mental health has been

4:08

a soapbox for me. Yeah.

4:10

And this isn't about me,

4:12

but I would imagine that

4:14

you suffer a lot. You

4:16

know, and you are publicly

4:18

suffering a lot and you

4:20

seem to be able to

4:22

handle it at this point.

4:24

I mean, I would imagine

4:26

there was times when it

4:28

was incredibly dark and incredibly hard

4:31

even to survive, but and I heard

4:33

you talking, I don't want to rehash

4:35

what you talked about with Billy, but

4:38

you are a father. You know, you

4:40

have two kids, you have to be

4:42

there for them. And is that a

4:44

tough balance right now to... Yeah, you

4:47

know, the... The suffering thing is,

4:49

you know, what do they say? Pain

4:51

is mandatory, suffering is optional.

4:53

So it's like, you know, you're gonna

4:55

have things in your life that make

4:57

you uncomfortable. And what are you gonna

4:59

do with it? Like I choose to

5:02

try to use that as fuel, like

5:04

anything that rubs weird, I'm like, okay,

5:06

what does this say about where I

5:08

need to grow? What does this say

5:10

about where I need to grow? What

5:12

does this say about me as a

5:14

father, as a man, as a human

5:16

being, going through this human experience

5:19

that we're all having in

5:21

life? You know, it's like, I think

5:23

leaning into that comfort is really

5:25

scary and really hard, but it's

5:28

not as the... Stuff, shit, can I

5:30

say, can we, you could say fuck and

5:32

you could say shit. And you could say,

5:34

we have no language barrier. I love it.

5:36

You know, leaning into the comfort always

5:39

feels scary, but it's never as

5:41

scary as the fake things you

5:43

tell yourself are gonna happen in

5:45

your brain. So I always go to

5:48

worst case scenarios. and those scare me

5:50

and are always way worse than what actually

5:52

happens. So I have to kind of look

5:54

at the pattern and go, oh I imagined

5:56

it would be X, Y, or Z, which

5:59

is way worse. than it was. Well

6:01

how often have I done that?

6:03

Every single day of my life.

6:05

So am I still going to

6:07

believe that? And if I do

6:09

choose to believe that, then that's

6:12

really on me. Well you know

6:14

I have this philosophy and it's

6:16

not mine. I heard somebody say

6:18

it and I wish I could

6:20

quote the name of the person

6:22

that said it, but it said

6:24

you know life is like a

6:26

song and you can't choose that

6:28

song. Yeah. I don't know and I'm

6:31

not, I don't know how to articulate

6:33

this. The difference is

6:35

that sometimes, the difference

6:37

between what I'm dealing

6:40

with and what you're

6:42

dealing with is you're

6:44

dealing with the repercussions

6:46

of choices you made, right? I'm

6:48

dealing with, I'm not making any

6:50

choices, my mind is fucked up.

6:53

Yeah. So how do you reconcile

6:55

that? Or do you, or do

6:57

you, or are, You know, and

6:59

I know that even in you

7:01

were never charged. You're not accountable,

7:03

right? Not as far as I'm

7:05

aware, no. I mean, I've eaten some

7:07

weird stuff all over the world. Who

7:10

knows? Maybe some human slipped in

7:12

there somewhere. No. You haven't eaten

7:14

a human. Correct. So, but you,

7:17

and you weren't charged? No. Is

7:19

there still an investigation? No, everything's

7:21

gone. Everything's closed. I was under

7:23

investigation for like two and a

7:25

half years. Two and a half

7:28

years. Two and a half years.

7:30

They went through everything. They went

7:32

through my phones, my computers, my

7:34

emails, all of my messages. They

7:37

looked at photos, timelines. They really

7:39

dug in for two and a half years

7:41

in a time where if they could have

7:43

busted someone who looks like

7:45

me. sort of like a tall,

7:47

handsome, privileged white man, they would

7:49

have loved to. I mean, this was the

7:52

time. It was me too. It was

7:54

Time's Up. Like, there were targets. And

7:56

like, I was a massive target. And

7:59

I was underinvest. for two and a

8:01

half years and at the end of it

8:03

you know the the district attorney and

8:05

and the LAPD were like yeah there's

8:07

not any proof that any crime was

8:10

committed here and they let it or

8:12

or any provable crime like is it

8:14

do you do you acknowledge that maybe

8:16

you did something wrong maybe that yeah

8:19

oh I acknowledge that I did something

8:21

wrong for sure I was an asshole

8:23

I was selfish, I was inconsiderate of people

8:25

and I was inconsiderate of their feelings

8:27

and how my actions made them feel.

8:29

And I guess like, you know, I

8:31

was a cad. I was a selfish

8:33

asshole who used women to make me

8:35

feel better and then as soon as I

8:37

got from them what I needed, I

8:39

moved on to the next woman who

8:41

could give me something else that would

8:43

make me feel good. And I didn't

8:45

care how I left people. and I didn't care

8:48

the state that I left them in. I was

8:50

just like, all right, cool, this was great, I'm

8:52

moving on, see ya. We talked about this being

8:54

casual, well, uh, cool, this was great, I'm

8:56

awesome, I'm out the door, see

8:59

ya, and I would bounce, and

9:01

I would leave people feeling dejected

9:03

and hurt and angry and... Howie

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9:37

and you talked about

9:39

it, and I think

9:41

that there are two

9:43

consenting adults who agree

9:45

to whatever it is,

9:47

is not illegal. Correct.

9:49

But I'm just outside

9:51

of that, you know, people

9:53

talk about safe words and

9:55

things like that. The people

9:58

that you were with. that

10:00

they couldn't, it didn't stop

10:02

when they wanted it to stop.

10:05

Is that true? That is true,

10:07

that that's what people said. And

10:09

it's a, it's, you know, it's

10:12

a very interesting thing that we

10:14

were dealing with in the

10:16

world of sort of what

10:18

does it look like if

10:21

you rescind consent ex post

10:23

facto? Right? Like after the

10:25

fact. Right. At the time,

10:27

at the moment, we're in

10:29

this heated relationship. Everything is

10:31

exciting. There's big trips going

10:33

on. There's road trips. There's

10:35

all these adventures that I'm

10:37

dragging these people into. Basically

10:39

scooping people up and going,

10:41

I'm taking you hostage for

10:43

all intents and purposes. And

10:45

for the next couple of

10:47

weeks, we're gonna have the

10:49

best time. Okay. And then

10:51

at the end of it. You signed

10:54

up for this, but at the end of it,

10:56

I'm gonna go and Maybe they had a

10:58

different idea of how it would end

11:00

or they had a different idea in

11:02

terms of how much real estate they

11:04

took up in my life But at

11:07

the time I never did anything with

11:09

anybody that they said no or stop

11:11

or I'm not comfortable with this or

11:13

used a safe word or anything like

11:15

that or if they did, like, oh,

11:17

okay, well, if you're not having fun,

11:19

then like, I'm not gonna have fun

11:22

doing this if you're not having fun

11:24

doing this, like this is a very

11:26

much a participation kind of thing. But

11:28

now I'm gonna go and you're angry,

11:30

so maybe it's easy to look at

11:32

a situation and go, well, you know,

11:35

I actually didn't want to do that.

11:37

Well, you said yes, and why did

11:39

you say yes, because you wanted to

11:41

be a part of this adventure. you

11:43

know like that's a big thing now but

11:45

wouldn't it be that you have to be

11:48

more aware of the no in even once

11:50

somebody says yeah i'm just talking about and

11:52

i don't know yeah i don't know if

11:54

you get a no that's the end of

11:56

the story so but what i'm saying is

11:58

we even without bdsm yeah even without, if

12:00

you're on a date with somebody,

12:02

just with, whatever, and they wanna

12:05

make out with you, and you

12:07

start making out, and then you

12:09

touch their breast, and they go,

12:11

no, that's no. But you could

12:13

also argue that, oh, but she

12:15

said, I can come into the

12:17

apartment, she started making out, that

12:19

wasn't a no. If you tie

12:21

somebody up and you're having rough

12:24

sex. and then they feel like

12:26

they're trying to get away because

12:28

I'm gonna be totally honest with

12:30

you and and so just doing

12:32

just doing and this is

12:34

probably what was that did you

12:36

guys hear that I guess we just

12:39

took a call no time there was

12:41

a chime I'd be that clock next

12:43

to you so I watched you with

12:45

Billy Bush and I loved

12:47

the conversation and everything and

12:49

then I'm a fan of

12:51

all your work and I

12:54

think that you're one of

12:56

the most charming, charismatic actors

12:58

I've ever seen and I

13:00

was a big fan of

13:02

every movie you've done in

13:04

every part you've ever done

13:06

and you're incredibly articulate and

13:08

I love that you were

13:10

speaking out now about the foibles

13:12

of what has happened in your

13:15

life and how you're dealing with

13:17

it because I think a lot

13:19

of people deal with this. I

13:22

mean you're going through, I can't

13:24

imagine what you've gone through. And

13:26

my heart goes out to you,

13:29

I feel very empathetic toward what's

13:31

happening. But then I watched the

13:34

house of hammer. And then I

13:36

said, why are you laughing?

13:38

It's still funny to me

13:40

that that's presented as a

13:42

documentary. So tell me what I...

13:44

I mean, there's all kinds of weird

13:47

things that happened before it came

13:49

out when they were making it,

13:51

you know, the producer cherry picking

13:53

or asking people, do you have

13:56

a lascivious story? Like, it's almost

13:58

like they knew what... they were

14:00

trying to make before they set

14:02

out to make it, which feels

14:04

less documentarian than I think

14:07

the genre requires. Also, there

14:09

were two women interviewed in

14:11

there, one of which was a girl

14:14

who I did date for a couple

14:16

of months scooped up, brought in on

14:18

this adventure, and then things ended

14:21

poorly. I don't need to get

14:23

into why it ended poorly, but there

14:25

was behavior that I started to notice

14:27

that I was just like, this actually

14:29

isn't someone that I really want in

14:31

my life. So I left. And then got a

14:33

series and pages and pages and then

14:35

got a series and pages and pages

14:37

and pages and pages of text messages

14:40

basically saying I'm going to destroy your

14:42

life, you have no idea what I'm

14:44

going to do to you, you just

14:46

watch, this and that, and I had

14:48

no idea, but apparently that's when the

14:50

documentary. who I've never even met in

14:52

my life, like never seen her in

14:54

person in my entire life, and she's

14:56

on the documentary saying that I was

14:58

abusive to her. So, and then of course my

15:01

aunt is the other person. Yes, that's right. My

15:03

aunt Casey, who has been estranged from

15:05

my family since I was born, I've

15:07

never spent time with my aunt one

15:10

on one in my life, and she

15:12

was on the documentary saying, well, this

15:14

is the real army, I know who

15:17

he is, he's a monster, this and

15:19

that. I don't know my aunts, like

15:21

we're not close, we never have been.

15:24

So I believe that there is probably,

15:26

we are in a world where sensationalism

15:28

sells and people, and I'm not,

15:31

I'll tell you the one little

15:33

switch that I went, holy shit,

15:35

was the one girl that I

15:37

think she's represented by Gloria Allred. Do

15:40

you know who that? Rafi? Rafi? Lafi?

15:42

Oh, F. Yeah, yeah. I know who

15:44

you're talking about. Yeah. Okay. She shared

15:47

text messages where she said she

15:49

agreed to do whatever she was going

15:51

to do and then she's in her

15:53

text. She says I was trying to

15:55

escape and trying to get away and

15:57

you weren't acknowledging that. Yeah,

16:00

yeah that her whole side of

16:02

the whole thing is very

16:04

Convoluted obviscated, but like but

16:07

you're answering her

16:09

you're on your

16:11

own But you're

16:13

only seeing one

16:15

side of the

16:18

conversation. So none

16:20

of her messages

16:22

are in any

16:24

of the text

16:26

messages that she

16:29

released she removed

16:31

her side of

16:34

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scary for everyone. It is really scary.

17:16

And to be totally, I do this,

17:18

I do this podcast with my daughter,

17:20

with Jackie, and we watch it together,

17:22

just because we're doing, we're watching everything.

17:24

We were watching, we watched all the

17:26

movies, we were watching everything, we were

17:29

watching all the movies, we were watching

17:31

everything, we started turning it on, we

17:33

didn't turn it off, and she got

17:35

uncomfortable, she said, I can't be here

17:37

today. But I'm still gonna, I wanna,

17:39

I wanna, you know, in this canceled

17:41

culture that we live in this canceled culture

17:43

that we live in, that we live

17:45

in, If even if you're 100% wrong,

17:47

there is, you know, even if it did

17:50

go to court and it didn't go to

17:52

court, but if it did go to court,

17:54

you would have a defense. I haven't heard

17:56

that side. I have not heard that side.

17:59

I only heard. that there is nothing but

18:01

to hear it from you yeah is probably

18:03

important and is that what you are is

18:05

that the journey that you're on right now

18:07

is that the the I feel like I

18:09

I in a way I feel like I

18:12

have presented everything that I need

18:14

to present I did a very

18:16

big sit-down piece in a in

18:18

a magazine called airmail and I

18:20

sat down with the journalist and

18:22

he asked me questions for hours

18:24

and hours and hours and hours

18:26

and then went through and excuse

18:28

and excuse me did all of his

18:30

own independent research as a

18:32

journalist. And his takeaway was that

18:35

there is nothing here. There is no fire

18:37

where this artificial smoke is. And he really

18:39

went on to lay out the details, the

18:41

timelines. He did all of that. And he

18:43

came into it with a very neutral stance.

18:45

and then after talking to me and after

18:48

seeing sort of everything presented he was like

18:50

okay I think I know what's going on

18:52

here and that's what he laid out in

18:54

his whole thing that is great to hear

18:56

yeah I love I'd love to hear that

18:59

I believe that everybody I'm sorry I'm sorry

19:01

that Jacqueline was uncomfortable I get it I

19:03

mean look like it's it's a very It's

19:05

a very inflammatory thing and it

19:07

is and I realize that my

19:09

presence does make people uncomfortable I

19:11

mean we see it here your

19:13

daughter didn't want to be here

19:16

and that's okay like I get

19:18

it I feel badly that I

19:20

still have a Thing about me

19:22

that makes people uncomfortable

19:24

and it's tough for me because there

19:26

is an aspect of it where I'm

19:29

like This this isn't real like this

19:31

whole thing is is not real and

19:33

for people to think something about

19:35

you that you know isn't true,

19:37

it sucks. But at the end

19:39

of the day, like, it is

19:42

what it is, and I get

19:44

it, and I have to be

19:46

loyal to wherever I am. But

19:48

people are going to also respond.

19:50

You also made, or didn't make

19:53

any effort to hide, you know,

19:55

aside from the accusations of cannibalism

19:57

and rape and you were open

19:59

about Yeah, I mean you posted a lot

20:01

of things that people would be. I

20:03

was a loose cannon. You were. I

20:06

was a loose cannon. You were. So

20:08

that you could make people really uncomfortable.

20:10

I was, I also ask you just

20:12

about that. Being that loose cannon, knowing

20:14

that people are putting millions and millions

20:16

and millions of dollars behind you. Do

20:18

you regret? You've got to be more

20:20

careful now, probably, I hope. Well, I

20:22

think I understand where that was coming

20:24

from. Where was that coming from? I

20:26

wanted to be seen. Like I wanted

20:28

to actually be seen for who

20:31

I was. And I didn't really

20:33

relate to this sort of like

20:35

cookie cutter, all-American, perfect family.

20:38

They're like the Kennedys. My

20:40

life was like a Ralph

20:43

Lauren ad. Like that didn't

20:45

feel genuine for like who

20:47

I felt like I was as a

20:49

person. I'm me man, I'm complicated. I'm

20:52

a complicated person with complicated desires

20:54

and complicated in securities and complicated.

20:56

I'm a human being trying to

20:59

figure all of this out. And

21:01

assuming any role that isn't me

21:03

is uncomfortable. But assuming the I

21:06

live a picture perfect life, like

21:08

this is Hollywood Golden Boy kind

21:10

of thing, that didn't feel like

21:12

me. Just like he's a cannibal

21:15

monster also is not me. You

21:17

know, it's like so... It's all

21:19

of these labels that either people

21:22

put on us or that we put

21:24

on ourselves that actually don't serve

21:26

us. That's like, we just gotta

21:28

relax. Like, it's all ego, everything.

21:30

Everything is your ego. The problems

21:32

in your life, the solutions you

21:34

think are in your life. You're

21:36

trying to solve these problems because

21:38

that's what your ego is meant

21:40

to do. But my ego took me way

21:42

out of control. I needed to be seen,

21:45

and I did it in a really reckless,

21:47

unhealthy way. And being seen as a

21:49

movie star wasn't enough? I mean,

21:51

I could have been seen as anything

21:53

in the world that if it wasn't

21:55

what I felt like, then it wasn't

21:58

enough. Or it was wrong. even

22:00

if it was a good thing. How do you

22:02

control that now? I sort of have to under,

22:04

I mean, well, first of all, my

22:06

ego was thoroughly smashed through this entire

22:09

process. You know, I've referred to it

22:11

multiple times as sort of like an

22:13

ego death because I was so used

22:15

to getting adoration from the public and

22:17

because I wasn't able to give myself

22:19

that sense of validation, I had a job

22:22

where I could get it from millions

22:24

of people that I didn't even know. And

22:26

so really, if someone you don't know says

22:28

something about you, it doesn't really mean anything

22:31

because they don't know you anyway, but I

22:33

didn't know that. I needed it. So if I

22:35

was feeling shitty about myself... I can post a

22:37

selfie on Instagram and then get a bunch

22:39

of comments about, oh, you're so handsome, oh,

22:41

we love your movie, blah, blah, blah, blah,

22:43

blah. And that would be a fix for

22:46

a minute. But because I wasn't able to

22:48

actually fill myself up from the inside with

22:50

validation or love, it was like a black

22:52

hole. It went in, felt good going in,

22:54

and then it was gone. And I needed

22:56

more and more and more. And that's what

22:58

I needed other people for. And now I'm

23:01

starting to realize. The only person I need

23:03

validation from the only person I need

23:05

acceptance from and the only person I

23:07

need love from is myself and my

23:09

kids But beyond that like everything else

23:12

is just noise And do you do you

23:14

believe that are you working toward that? No,

23:16

I believe that like that it took me

23:18

a while to actually get there I knew

23:20

that was the goal, but now I'm there

23:22

our society whether we're in this business or

23:24

not is about validation I mean we get

23:26

up in the morning and we get dressed

23:28

and we comb our hair because we want

23:30

to be validated or not look like

23:32

a mess when we walk out because

23:35

we're concerned about how somebody out there

23:37

might see us. Sure. So to have

23:39

the wherewithal and the strength to kind

23:42

of give that up sounds like

23:44

a pure but it's got to

23:46

be a constant exercise right? Absolutely.

23:48

Absolutely. I mean I have a

23:51

very strict routine for myself that

23:53

I keep every single day and

23:55

excuse me it involves waking waking

23:57

up early. you know, doing a little

23:59

meta. writing out my gratitude, writing

24:02

out my schedule for the day,

24:04

really giving myself the best chance

24:06

I have to really connect with

24:08

myself throughout the day and see

24:10

where I'm at and see where

24:12

I'm feeling. What was the

24:15

darkest moment? When did you realize?

24:17

It was pretty dark for

24:19

a while. Yeah. I mean it was

24:21

there was it was dark for years.

24:24

Really? Yeah. Did you ever consider... not

24:26

going on? Yeah, I did. I

24:28

mean, I had a suicide attempt.

24:30

I was just like, enough, like,

24:32

I'm done. Like, this is, I

24:34

cannot take this anymore. I'm not

24:36

strong enough for this. So I swam

24:39

out in the ocean as far

24:41

as I could and just laid

24:43

out there and just laid out

24:45

there and was just like either

24:47

waiting to get eaten by a

24:49

shark or drowned or whatever. And

24:51

then as I was laying out.

24:53

No matter what I'm doing. to

24:56

myself, I can't take a

24:58

permanent solution to a temporary

25:00

problem. Like that's just not

25:02

going to work. So I swam

25:04

like an hour plus, an hour

25:07

and a half back to shore

25:09

and realized that I needed professional

25:11

help and ended up going into

25:13

a treatment center for trauma, for

25:15

process addictions, as well as for,

25:18

you know, suicidal ideations.

25:20

You were also listening to Billy,

25:22

which was... You're also a victim.

25:24

I mean, you were molested as

25:26

a young child. Yeah. I don't,

25:28

I don't subscribe to the sort

25:30

of like victim idea. I've had

25:32

things happen to me that I wish

25:35

didn't, but those things also shaped me

25:37

to be the person that I am

25:39

today. And who I am today, I'm

25:41

okay with. So all of those things

25:44

that happened. Are they unfortunate? Sure. But

25:46

like, do I look at myself as

25:48

a victim? No, because I feel like

25:50

as soon as someone takes on a

25:53

victim mentality, they're going to be victimized

25:55

over and over and over again because

25:57

subconsciously, these people who call themselves victims.

26:00

or identify with being a victim are

26:02

going to pull victimizing things into their

26:04

life. And that's just not me. Wow.

26:06

You, in moving forward, I know that

26:09

your career is starting to move forward.

26:11

You have the podcast and we'll put

26:13

a link to the podcast. I know

26:15

you've done a couple of movies, you've

26:18

got two movies in the can right

26:20

now. Yeah. So we look for you're

26:22

a really good actor and incredibly entertaining.

26:24

Are you dating? Not really like not

26:27

at the moment. I you know I

26:29

I have dated but It's just I

26:31

think the volume on that has been

26:33

turned down a little bit for me

26:36

and I don't know if that's my

26:38

Central nervous system being sort of like

26:40

tuned to an appropriate level or if

26:42

I'm avoidant and traumatized and don't trust

26:45

people it's probably a mixture of the

26:47

both. I feel like I'm not a

26:49

therapist, I feel from the outside in

26:51

reading like it's you had this you're

26:54

having this experience heterosexual experience and I

26:56

feel like you you like just thought

26:58

maybe there's another path for me and

27:00

I read you you you join grinder?

27:03

No I didn't actually join grinder. I

27:05

was telling a story about how easy

27:07

grinder makes it seem. and like all

27:09

of my all of my gay friends

27:12

who are on grinder are like this

27:14

is the best you know and like

27:16

and and the story that I told

27:18

was like you know being at a

27:21

restaurant with someone in their phone goes

27:23

off and they go oh I'll be

27:25

right back and they leave for 10

27:28

minutes and they come back and you

27:30

go where'd you go they go I

27:32

went and got a blowjob in the

27:34

bathroom it's like from who it's like

27:37

I don't know it's just let's just

27:39

see what happens I gave it a

27:41

try and it wasn't for me What

27:43

was the experience? Who, who, who? Oh,

27:46

it was just this, this guy who

27:48

was a friend of friends and someone

27:50

that I knew, oh, you knew him.

27:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was

27:55

like, yeah, let's just, I'll try making

27:57

out with this guy, see what happens.

27:59

And like, you know, it was fine,

28:01

but like, it just didn't, it didn't,

28:04

it didn't. that thing for me that

28:06

I get when I'm with a woman.

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28:40

still into BDSM? Yeah, I mean, it's

28:42

challenging, right? Because if there's anything in

28:44

our life that we face huge consequences

28:46

for, whether they are just or fair

28:49

or whatever, going back to that thing

28:51

is pretty scary. And sexuality is something

28:53

that's really vulnerable for a lot of

28:56

people. you know i mean even if

28:58

it's just i don't like being naked

29:00

in front of someone else with the

29:02

lights on like people just have their

29:05

vulnerabilities and they have their insecurities you

29:07

can't be satisfied just uh... a mission

29:09

position oh hundred percent hundred percent like

29:11

yeah that's i yeah oh i mean

29:14

i i feel like sex is a

29:16

spectrum right and it's like you have

29:18

everything from I like missionary sex with

29:20

the lights off to what to you

29:23

know group sex with a bunch of

29:25

people whatever that is people are allowed

29:27

to like whatever it is that they

29:29

like but for me finding a way

29:32

to engage in certain things just doesn't

29:34

really feel safe anymore which is a

29:36

bummer yeah how is your relationship with

29:38

your family just I know your mother

29:41

Yeah, yes, my mom and I have

29:43

a good relationship. We did two podcasts

29:45

together and that really goes into... It's

29:47

deep. Yeah, where our relationship is, why

29:50

it is, where it is, and all

29:52

that stuff. But, you know, I mean,

29:54

I'm close with my mom, I'm close

29:56

with my ex-wife, Elizabeth, which is awesome.

29:59

The mother of your child. Children. Yeah,

30:01

we've really come a long way and

30:03

I'm really proud of us and I

30:05

have an incredible relationship with my kids.

30:08

I see my kids. all day, every

30:10

day. You know, I wake up, I

30:12

go to my ex-wife's house, I wake

30:14

the kids up, I cook their breakfast,

30:17

I help them pack their lunches, I

30:19

take them to school every day, I

30:21

pick them up from school most days,

30:24

every day, and then I'm with them

30:26

for the rest of the time and

30:28

then I'm with them on the weekends

30:30

as well, so it's like, I feel

30:33

like my life is in like a

30:35

really good place right now. How old

30:37

are they? My daughter's 10 and my

30:39

daughter's 10 and my sons and my

30:42

sons and my sons and my sons

30:44

ate, and my sons ate, my sons

30:46

ate, my sons ate, and my sons

30:48

ate, and my sons ate, It's such

30:51

fun ages. It is a fun age.

30:53

Yeah. And having children is, to me,

30:55

that's the legacy. People always ask us,

30:57

you know, how do you, because we're

31:00

in the business, which I believe is

31:02

a stupid question, but they always say,

31:04

how do you want to be remembered?

31:06

What is your legacy? And the truth

31:09

is, we won't be remembered. I mean,

31:11

you might because you're a hammer, you

31:13

know, you have a legacy. But people

31:15

don't know actors from two generations ago.

31:18

is our children. 100% and how we

31:20

raise them and who they become is

31:22

a big is because of us. You

31:24

know and I just feel like that

31:27

is the legacy. Are you concerned that

31:29

at some point when they're old enough

31:31

they're gonna hear these stories and how

31:33

do you what is your mindset right

31:36

now as far as yeah there are

31:38

going to be difficult and uncomfortable conversations

31:40

that will need to happen with my

31:42

kids at some point. Like that's just

31:45

the reality of it and unfortunately kids

31:47

are also cruel and I'm sure at

31:49

some point when they're in high school

31:52

or something like that like this is

31:54

going to be brought up and probably

31:56

used against them or thrown into their

31:58

face I'll have the conversation with my

32:01

kids to just remind these other kids

32:03

that are you sure you want to

32:05

pick on the child of a guy

32:07

who is an accused cannibal like is

32:10

that smart he might eat you you

32:12

know like who knows oh my god

32:14

but but the thing is it's like

32:16

I my kids you know I I

32:19

I got my life on track about

32:21

four years ago, so my daughter was

32:23

six and my son was four. And

32:25

since then, they've only known a dad

32:28

who shows up exactly when he says

32:30

he's going to show up, who is

32:32

not late, who takes them to school,

32:34

who is there for them, who holds

32:37

a safe space for them emotionally. they

32:39

will have a very clear idea of

32:41

the dad and person that I am.

32:43

And when other people who don't know

32:46

their dad say things about them, I

32:48

hope that they remember how they feel

32:50

about me. And I think that's right.

32:52

Yeah, that's a good path. Where do

32:55

you want to go? What do you

32:57

want to do now? What do you

32:59

want to do? And you know what

33:01

I want to do is I just

33:04

want to go with the flow. I

33:06

don't want to need anything. I don't

33:08

want to force anything. I'm really in

33:10

this place where it's been made abundantly

33:13

clear to me that every time I'm

33:15

behind the wheel of the car, I

33:17

crash the car. So maybe it's time

33:20

to let someone else drive. And I

33:22

don't know if that's the universe, if

33:24

it's God, whatever it is, but like,

33:26

I'm really happy. And I feel really

33:29

good. And so... I don't really need

33:31

anything else. So I've got two more

33:33

films that I'm going to do this

33:35

year. I've got my podcast. I've got

33:38

like all these fun little creative things

33:40

going. And I'm showing up for my

33:42

kids. Like that's really my priority. So

33:44

beyond that, like whatever happens is just

33:47

icing on the cake. Are you making

33:49

a living? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:51

Yeah. And my life is very, very

33:53

small. I don't have any big overhead.

33:56

I live in an apartment that's less.

33:58

than half the size of this room

34:00

and I love it and it's my

34:02

safe space and like I feel good

34:05

so like I really don't need much.

34:07

Were you obviously but deeper than I'm

34:09

going to ask it but were you

34:11

aware of the the Hammer legacy like

34:14

did you feel like the the the

34:16

the Kennedys or that just being or

34:18

was that a burden or was it

34:20

something you wore proudly or is it?

34:23

Yeah it's interesting there was a lot

34:25

of pressure growing up you know for

34:27

sure I remember you know my dad

34:29

every time I would leave the house

34:32

Not every time, but often when I

34:34

would leave the house, he would say

34:36

to me, he goes, you need to

34:38

go up and you need to brush

34:41

your hair, you need to make sure

34:43

you look good, you need to this

34:45

and that, because you represent the family

34:48

when you walk out this door. You're

34:50

a hammer. So when you go out

34:52

there, people look at you and they

34:54

see all of us. So you need

34:57

to represent and this and that. And

34:59

like, that's a lot of pressure for

35:01

an eight-year-old kid. You know. I was

35:03

never made to feel special because of

35:06

my family. In fact, my mom was

35:08

a huge part of this. You know,

35:10

my mom grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma,

35:12

and you know, she was very much

35:15

the, you know, if we're in the

35:17

car and the AC is on and

35:19

you roll down the window, you're wasting

35:21

the AC, turn off the light, like

35:24

all that, like my mom was very

35:26

frugal in that sense. So, so I

35:28

got that influence as well, and I

35:30

feel like it was a good balance.

35:33

That is, so you knew the value

35:35

of a dollar. Yeah, absolutely. It was

35:37

kind of a situation where my mom

35:39

would say to me like, okay, you

35:42

want an allowance? How much your friend's

35:44

getting? You know, $10 a week. Okay,

35:46

you get seven. Why? Why? Why? Why

35:48

don't I get 20? Oh, you think

35:51

you deserve more than your friends? Like

35:53

that kind of thing, you know, which

35:55

I think is healthy. We were raised

35:57

with any religion. Yeah, my mom was

36:00

a very strong Christian. He converted to

36:02

Christianity and then I was raised at

36:04

your grandfather's funeral, right? Wasn't that or

36:06

is that? Yeah, no, no. He, he,

36:09

when my great-grandfather was dying, he was,

36:11

he was an operator. Like that guy

36:13

wanted to cover all of his bases.

36:16

So when he knew he was dying,

36:18

he reached out to rabbis, he reached

36:20

out to priests, he was like I'm

36:22

covering all the bases here. So yeah.

36:25

Oh so that's that that was the

36:27

conversion that's why he was he was

36:29

supposed to have his he was supposed

36:31

to have his bar mitzvah, finally when

36:34

he was like 92 years old, you

36:36

know, because he was supposed to have

36:38

his bar mitzvah, finally when he was

36:40

like 92 years old, you know, he

36:43

was like, well, maybe I need to

36:45

do so. about this and then he

36:47

just died before he had his bar

36:49

mitzvah. Do you have any, is your

36:52

brother in the business? No, no, he

36:54

works in finance. Right, yeah. And nothing

36:56

to do with the hammer businesses? Yeah,

36:58

he's more involved in all that stuff

37:01

than I am. You never wanted to?

37:03

Not really. No, did you have an

37:05

opportunity to? I mean if I would

37:07

have asked, sure, but it just was

37:10

never, it's never what I wanted to

37:12

make movies. I wanted to be in

37:14

the entertainment entertainment industry. Yeah, yeah, we

37:16

have a script, my my producer from

37:19

my podcast is here actually with us.

37:21

And yeah, we have a script that

37:23

we've written and we're gonna we're gonna

37:25

make it. Well, that's great. Who is

37:28

it? Who's your partner? Who's that? His

37:30

name's Jerry Brunswick. There's name's Jerry Brunswick.

37:32

There he is. How's name's Jerry Brunswick.

37:34

There he is. How's Jerry Brunswick? There

37:37

is. How are you? Jerry and I

37:39

are going to direct it. So, and

37:41

when is this going to go into,

37:44

or are you raising money now or?

37:46

Well, we're going to finish, we're going

37:48

to finish the script, then we're going

37:50

to start raising money. I mean, it's,

37:53

it's very funny, but being canceled, you

37:55

get a lot of people from the

37:57

right who are like, oh, you've been

37:59

canceled, that's bullshit. We'll fund your movie.

38:02

So it's like, all right, maybe this

38:04

is working out well. So this was

38:06

a great finance ploy. All of this

38:08

was a ploy to just make money

38:11

for this movie. Just get this, it

38:13

was his idea. He's the actual cannibal.

38:15

Yes. Just bite some people. We got

38:17

a movie. Howie Mandel here, who has

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38:44

Oh, I get 20% off. That's great.

38:47

I also want to show you, uh,

38:49

I don't know what your, really? Oh,

38:51

wow. This just, this just in. Oh

38:53

no, I just got a... A YouTube

38:56

plaque. Oh, there you go. 100,000. Congratulations.

38:58

Thank you. There it is. Thank you.

39:00

Thank you to the crew and everything.

39:02

I couldn't have done it without you.

39:05

And also, and I don't know, I

39:07

know a lot about you, probably more

39:09

than I should know about you, but

39:11

do you wear underpants? I do. Do

39:14

you wear, I have this company man-made

39:16

underpants underpants. Okay. And they make the

39:18

best underpants. They're Canadian. Great. What size

39:20

underpants are you. uh... large okay there

39:23

you go feel those you're gonna love

39:25

those they're great you know it's funny

39:27

i've i've been a boxer guy like

39:29

i always wear boxers i like a

39:31

little bit of space i like to

39:34

move around like a little bit of

39:36

space i like to move around like

39:38

like a little bit of the freedom

39:40

but the other day i was like

39:43

i've been wearing boxes for a long

39:45

time i think it's time to branch

39:47

out and i show up here and

39:49

i get a pair of You really

39:52

don't know? Is that for like a

39:54

cup? No. What is it for you?

39:56

You could play hockey in those if

39:58

you want it. That's for your, uh,

40:01

pennest. Yeah, to pennis out. Penis out.

40:03

Yeah, sure. That's for your pennis. And

40:05

instead of coming out the site, like,

40:07

normally we have to come around the

40:10

corner. Could you go around? This is

40:12

like up and over. I think it's

40:14

more of a positive. It feels more

40:16

ergonomic, really. It is. And this is,

40:19

these are four Canadian. guys that just

40:21

left finance, like you and your family,

40:23

and just started making underpants, and it's

40:25

man-made, and enjoy them. And wear them.

40:28

By the way, they feel very soft.

40:30

They're very soft. You don't chafe, they

40:32

don't ride up, they're just amazing. What

40:34

size, even your producer, what size are

40:36

you? See this? Extra, extra large. Are

40:39

you bullshitting? Look at him producing. There's

40:41

extra large, there's underpants for your producer.

40:43

Isn't that good. We have we have

40:45

we have a picture in our matching

40:48

underwear and send it to you all

40:50

right Yeah, all right, and we'll post

40:52

it and it'll make it You guys

40:54

do you have a fact Kyle or

40:57

something we want to? This is a

40:59

just a response. He doesn't have to

41:01

you know, you don't have a fact.

41:03

Sometimes he has a random fact just

41:06

random facts okay that he likes to

41:08

share Okay, but this time he didn't

41:10

have a random fact. Okay, I got

41:12

one for you. Okay. Do you know

41:15

where artificial vanilla flavoring comes from? Yes.

41:17

Oh, Kyle desk. Go ahead. Do you

41:19

want to tell us, Kyle? Beaver anus.

41:21

Beaver anus. Why do you two know

41:24

that? We spent too much time. Wait

41:26

a minute. Kyle, are you on grinder?

41:28

You want to go to the bathroom

41:30

for 10 minutes? I'll meet you there.

41:32

See, it's that easy. Wow! Wow! Beaver

41:35

Anis is artificial vanilla. Yeah. I'm Canadian,

41:37

I should know that. I know. With

41:39

a home of the beaver. How do

41:41

you know that? Because I have, I

41:44

don't know, I'm sure it's one of

41:46

those things that I... and I was

41:48

just like, this is sticking with me

41:50

forever. And I also want to know

41:53

who the first person to lick a

41:55

beaver anus was and go, you know

41:57

what that tastes like? Vanilla. And we

41:59

just want to say and make it

42:02

clear, it wasn't you. Was not me?

42:04

Was not on me hammer. Yep. Do

42:06

you know, but I think that about

42:08

everything, like even milk. Yeah, yeah. Who's

42:11

the first? Who's the first guy? Eggs.

42:13

Like I fell out of a chicken's

42:15

ass. I bet that's delicious. Yes. Yeah.

42:17

Or even a cow. You squeeze that

42:20

utter and that fluid comes out and

42:22

you drink that. Yeah. Like why? Yeah.

42:24

The first of everything makes no sense.

42:26

I agree. It really does. Did you

42:29

come up with a random fact yet?

42:31

I looked one up a random fact.

42:33

That counts. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, in

42:35

the 1830s, ketchup was sold as a

42:37

medicine because it could cure diarrhea and

42:40

jaundice. Okay, well next time I get

42:42

diarrhea and jaundice, I'll just drink a

42:44

bunch of ketchup. Yeah. Isn't it weird

42:46

that when diarrhea is like, there's no

42:49

waiting, there's just shit flowing out of

42:51

you, and the one thing to cure

42:53

it is all about anticipation? Yeah, there's

42:55

no anticipation. It's just right there. The

42:58

jaundice thing is interesting to me because

43:00

isn't jaundice something to do like with

43:02

your kidney? Oh liver, is it your

43:04

liver? Liver. Okay, he knows. And it's

43:07

like, okay, so there's something going on

43:09

with the functionality of your liver and

43:11

you're not processing toxins. So instead just

43:13

put ketchup in your body. Well you

43:16

don't know, you don't know that they

43:18

were putting it in their body. Maybe

43:20

you rub it on, or you rub

43:22

ketchup all over you. I don't know

43:25

that it cures jaundice, but you can't

43:27

tell you have a yellow. The red

43:29

offsets it. And then you look normal.

43:31

Yeah, yeah. They didn't have makeup at

43:33

that time. You just look tan. The

43:36

original self tanner. Yes. Are you, you

43:38

stay in shape? Are you, what do

43:40

you do? I know you meditate. Yeah,

43:42

I go to the gym. You go

43:45

to the gym? Yeah, and I'm very

43:47

active. Like yesterday. I took my son

43:49

and his friend, we played on the

43:51

beach for hours, we rode bikes, we

43:54

did, like, I'm a very active person.

43:56

It helps me. If I sit still,

43:58

oh my God, if I sit still,

44:00

my brain will start to attack me.

44:03

And it's like, if I'm sitting still,

44:05

I'm in my head, I'm an enemy

44:07

territory. So moving for me, like, that

44:09

was a big thing for me is

44:12

like understanding that like anxiety feels like

44:14

it paralyzes me. but that's just the

44:16

anxiety sort of like trying to survive.

44:18

If I just get up and start

44:21

moving, even just go for a 10

44:23

minute walk, I can work all that

44:25

shit through my somatic system. Do you,

44:27

are you sober? Yeah, I'm behaviorally sober.

44:30

So what does that mean? It means

44:32

like alcohol is not my problem. Drugs

44:34

are not my problem. I loved them,

44:36

but it wasn't actually what took my

44:38

life down. It was more of a

44:41

sort of like, What you would call

44:43

a behavioral program which is more like

44:45

you know like sex addicts love addicts

44:47

like that kind of thing I I

44:50

needed that stuff so do you drink

44:52

I I drink but not much like

44:54

I'll have a glass of wine at

44:56

dinner every now and then or something

44:59

like that But like I don't get

45:01

drunk, but not because I'm an alcoholic

45:03

I don't get drunk because then if

45:05

I get drunk at a dinner the

45:08

first thing that's gonna sound like the

45:10

best idea in the world is trying

45:12

to have sex with a waiter with

45:14

a waiter and like I just know

45:17

that that's not good with a Yeah,

45:19

yeah, they're giving her the full tip.

45:21

There you go. Yeah, what about pot?

45:23

It's not really my thing anymore. I've

45:26

smoked weed. I used to smoke a

45:28

lot. I mean, at one point I

45:30

was smoking anywhere from 15 to 20

45:32

joints a day. Like I was smoking

45:35

joints like cigarettes. You're like a white

45:37

snoop. Oh yeah, yeah, like my tolerance

45:39

used to be unmatched, unmatched. And I

45:41

stopped smoking weed for a while. And

45:43

then when I realized that I wasn't

45:46

an alcoholic and I wasn't a drug

45:48

addict, I was like, oh, maybe I

45:50

can try smoking weed. I got so

45:52

stoned that I was like. Parnoy. Because

45:55

yet before when I had a tolerance,

45:57

I would just never get stoned. When

45:59

I didn't have a tolerance and I

46:01

tried smoking weed, I got so stoned,

46:04

I was like... I think my chair

46:06

is trying to eat me. I don't

46:08

know what's happening. Everyone's trying to kill

46:10

me in here. Like, I just got

46:13

really paranoid. So I'm like, okay, that's

46:15

not for me anymore. I know I

46:17

asked you if you're dating, but this

46:19

is kind of different. Are you looking

46:22

to be in a relationship? I'm not,

46:24

when I, when you say looking for

46:26

it, like, not necessarily, if something came

46:28

along, I would be open to it,

46:31

but I'm not looking for it right

46:33

now. What is your, I know you

46:35

said you're active and you ride your

46:37

bike, what is your favorite hobby? My

46:39

favorite hobby, I mean, I would say

46:42

podcasting, honestly. Are you enjoying it? I

46:44

love it so much, just to have

46:46

my own creative space where I can

46:48

do what I want, say what I

46:51

want, have conversations with, who I want

46:53

to have conversations with, it feels like

46:55

my own little creative space, and it

46:57

satisfies all of those creative needs that

47:00

I have, so I'm good with it.

47:02

Craving to have on. You know, I

47:04

would love to have 50 cent on

47:06

my podcast. I don't know if he

47:09

even does those kinds of things. I

47:11

think if you call him Fiddy. Fitty?

47:13

That'll do it. That'll do it. 50

47:15

cent is too much. Look at me.

47:18

I'm very much a 50 cent kind

47:20

of guy. Yes. But there's a lot

47:22

of hard-earned wisdom that that guy has.

47:24

And he's open to sharing it with

47:27

people. And I think that he's got

47:29

a really interesting perspective. I don't know,

47:31

yeah, I don't even know how. Well,

47:33

DM them on Instagram. All right, I'll

47:36

DM 50-cent. Let's do it. Fiddy. Fitty.

47:38

Fitty. Fitty. We'll do that. We'll do

47:40

that. We'll do it while we're on.

47:42

Guys, go on my thing. I have

47:44

the guy that can do it. And

47:47

DM, and tell him. I don't know.

47:49

Let's see. I bet you he'd come

47:51

on. Let's see he'd come on Instagram.

47:53

Oh, here it is. You won't believe

47:56

this. 50 cent. That's what it is.

47:58

It is 50 cent? Yeah. Hey

48:01

buddy, let's chat big fan love

48:03

your perspective on life and feel

48:05

like there is a lot of

48:07

hard earned wisdom there if that

48:09

feels like something you'd like to

48:11

share Would love to have you,

48:13

this is going on way too

48:15

long now, no? You on my

48:17

podcast. Too wordy army, too wordy.

48:20

I'm already sending it. Oh look

48:22

at, he's producing. He even produces

48:24

social media posts. Produce some silence

48:26

over there Jerry. All right. I

48:28

sent him a message. I would

48:30

imagine with that kind of letter

48:32

and all those words, if he

48:34

heard the grinder story, he's gonna

48:36

be scared. Yeah, he's not a

48:39

podcast. He doesn't have a podcast.

48:41

Yeah, yeah. He wants a blow

48:43

job. Yes, but no, that guy

48:45

is a smart guy. Yeah, he

48:47

is talking. What is the... My

48:49

dream guest is... And it breaks

48:51

my heart because he's dead. Joseph

48:53

Campbell, who wrote The Hero with

48:55

a Thousand Faces. Joseph Campbell was

48:58

a, I guess you would call

49:00

him a mythologist. He basically studied

49:02

myth and legend from all over

49:04

the world and distilled it all

49:06

down to archetypes. He was very

49:08

close with Jung and those guys

49:10

and archetype is a very big

49:12

thing that governs everything in our

49:14

life. And I would love to

49:17

have a conversation with Joseph Campbell,

49:19

but unfortunately he is no more.

49:21

You're a very smart guy. Did

49:23

you graduate college? bro, I didn't

49:25

graduate high school. That's what I'm

49:27

saying. I had read that. You

49:29

have a lot of knowledge, you

49:31

read a lot. I do. Yeah,

49:33

I love to read. And you're,

49:36

but I, you know, knowledge and

49:38

intelligence are probably not the same

49:40

thing. So you, you. You seem

49:42

like a very intelligent man who

49:44

I think I'm not I'm not

49:46

big on education. Yeah. Though my

49:48

daughter who's not here is a

49:50

teacher and I think that early

49:52

education and that is the most

49:55

important thing we can have but

49:57

I mean people put too much

49:59

weight on going to college and

50:01

unless you're going to go for

50:03

something that is a profession and

50:05

you're going to learn a skill

50:07

I think a lot of it

50:09

is a waste of time. I

50:11

agree mostly money you know you

50:14

can't even afford to be a

50:16

doctor now if you want to

50:18

go to medical school you come

50:20

out in your 30s in crazy

50:22

debt hundreds of thousands of dollars

50:24

in debt and then you're in

50:26

residency making no money I mean

50:28

it's but look if I would

50:30

rather my doctor have gone to

50:33

medical school than not so that

50:35

is fine with me, but I

50:37

think that unless you're going to

50:39

like some sort of like vocational

50:41

school, I think you can really

50:43

kind of figure all of this

50:45

out. We have in our pockets

50:47

a device that contains the cumulative

50:50

knowledge of the entire human race

50:52

and we can just learn. And

50:54

if you're auto-dydactic at all, you

50:56

have all these tools. But some

50:58

people need more structure, some people

51:00

subscribe to the I need to

51:02

graduate high school, I need to

51:04

go to college and that's fine.

51:06

Go do your thing. I'm not

51:09

here to tell anybody what to

51:11

do. You just did. Yeah, go

51:13

do what you want, if you

51:15

want. Yeah, how often, how many

51:17

episodes do you do, do one

51:19

a week and it drops? No,

51:21

we try to do two a

51:23

week just because I do have

51:25

a travel schedule and, you know,

51:28

Jerry is gonna be gone next

51:30

week on a gig. So we

51:32

like. Where are you going, Jerry?

51:34

Nashville. I have a

51:36

deal with all the people who

51:38

work on my pod where I'm like,

51:40

I'm not paying you anything really, so

51:43

if you get a gig that pays

51:45

you, go do it. Like please,

51:47

don't turn it down for this. So

51:49

we like to keep like a reserve

51:52

of podcasts for if I have to

51:54

go travel to do a movie or

51:56

something like that, we still have stuff

51:59

to release. Do you find that the

52:01

industry, I know you've got two

52:03

movies in the can, two to go,

52:05

do you have an agent? I don't

52:08

have an agent. No, and I'm I'm

52:10

good with it. I've got an attorney

52:13

and all of the people who are

52:15

interested in me Just contact my attorney.

52:17

They say here's the script. I

52:19

read it if I like it I

52:22

do it and it's just very simple

52:24

the of a PR person. Nope You

52:26

don't have a teen. Nope Just a

52:29

couple of friends, but that's good. Yeah,

52:31

I'm very happy with it I think

52:33

that this team thing is a

52:35

little interesting too. I think it's kind

52:38

of like the college thing, where there

52:40

was a time where you needed that.

52:42

But now I feel like accessibility is

52:45

different. I don't know if I need

52:47

that. Apparently you don't. You seem to

52:49

be doing good. It'll probably be

52:51

smart to have a publicist every now

52:54

and then to just be like, would

52:56

you shut up? But other than that,

52:58

I'm just going with it. Do you

53:01

think about... the things that i'm just

53:03

talking professional yeah professional things the

53:05

things that you could have done that

53:07

you missed out on you think about

53:10

any of that um because i know

53:12

yeah i mean i i think i

53:14

read that you were it was a

53:17

you were about to start a movie

53:19

with Jennifer Lopez i don't know

53:21

that that is that much of a

53:23

totally fine that that one didn't happen

53:26

totally fine was there anything that you

53:28

were yeah there was a there was

53:30

a there was a show that i

53:33

was actually really excited about doing called

53:35

the offer Oh Grief, I know

53:37

my buddy produced that. Yeah, yeah, and

53:39

I was buddies with Al Ruddy I'd

53:42

known Al for years and it was

53:44

something that we had talked about and

53:46

we were very... The making of the

53:49

godfather, right? The making of the godfather,

53:51

right? The making of the godfather,

53:53

right? The making of the godfather, yeah.

53:55

That's an amazing, so you were gonna

53:58

be, oh. I was, I signed, I

54:00

had contracts, we had all this stuff

54:02

in place in place, yeah. Do you

54:05

talked to... Timothy Shalomey. No, I don't

54:07

really talk to anybody anymore. Nobody.

54:09

That's okay. Like I think a lot

54:11

of people felt like they needed to,

54:14

in sort of an act of self-preservation,

54:16

create distance. And that's okay. Like that's

54:18

on them, that's their decision, that's fine.

54:21

But I would say 90. 9% of

54:23

my friends or friends that I

54:25

had before I was ever successful in

54:28

the film business. So you don't talk

54:30

to Blake Lively? I don't. Yeah, it's

54:32

a real shame. My loss, I'm sure.

54:35

Do you know Justin? I met you.

54:37

I mean, I knew Justin 20

54:39

years ago when we were in acting

54:41

class together. Yeah, he has not aged.

54:44

He looks great. Like he looked like

54:46

that. He was a very nice guy.

54:48

You know, I didn't, I didn't get

54:51

to know him too well. I didn't

54:53

spend that much time with him,

54:55

but we were in class together. You

54:57

have thoughts on lively Baldwin? No. Okay.

55:00

Fair. You have thoughts on Cinderella? You

55:02

were in the original, not the original

55:04

Cinderella. Snow White. I meant Snow White.

55:07

I meant Snow White. You were in

55:09

Snow White. Yeah, I was in

55:11

a movie with that Tarcem Sing directed.

55:13

called Mirror Mirror and it was me,

55:16

Lily Collins, Julia Roberts, Nathan Lane, great

55:18

cast. It was so much fun. We

55:20

shot it in Montreal, it was a

55:23

blast. That's my home country. Yeah, yeah,

55:25

yeah. Yeah, yeah. Are you from

55:27

Montreal originally? Toronto. Toronto. Toronto, Toronto. But

55:29

what do you think of the new

55:32

one and what do you think of

55:34

that controversy? I haven't seen it. I

55:36

don't know if it's out, is it

55:39

out out out? A lot of people

55:41

don't know if it's out yet,

55:43

no, no, no, no, no, it's failing.

55:45

is failing miserably, Disney is failing, and

55:48

a lot of it is, there's a

55:50

controversy, where the star is being very

55:52

vocal on social media. Sure. And it's...

55:55

That never goes well. It didn't go

55:57

well. It never does. It doesn't.

55:59

It doesn't. Yeah. And she's young, and

56:01

she's 20, and she has a great

56:04

opportunity, which I think has been kind

56:06

of, uh, cabashed by her own actions.

56:08

Well then this has an amazing opportunity

56:11

to be a learning experience. Look

56:13

at you glass half full. It's um,

56:15

it's it's the worst movie on IMDB

56:17

history at 1.6 1.6 Well, there's a

56:20

random fact hole disaster movie Used to

56:22

be at 1.9 so it beat it

56:24

I liked disaster wait disaster movie was

56:27

the Tommy Wizzo the room one

56:29

right? No it was like it was

56:31

like the date movie scary movie knockoff

56:33

things. Oh I didn't know he's saying

56:36

it they count the oh is called

56:38

disaster movie? Yeah yeah it's called disaster

56:41

movie the room is like rated like

56:43

number 17 or something I love

56:45

that one well yeah wait but oh

56:47

disaster artist what was the one that

56:50

Franco directed what was that one called?

56:52

Great you don't have any facts dead

56:54

air yeah It was the room or

56:57

the room was the original. What is

56:59

that? What's the one that James

57:01

Franco directed about Tommy was a Tommy?

57:03

That's disaster artist. Yeah, okay. Okay, disaster

57:06

artist. There's another guy that just disappeared.

57:08

Yeah, people dropping like flies. Yeah, it

57:10

just so happens also the timing of

57:13

you guys, uh, whatever was going on

57:15

in your life. It was at

57:17

the heart of me too and cancel.

57:19

Yeah. Wow. It's scary that people are

57:22

just wiped off the face of the

57:24

earth. That's the scary thing about it.

57:26

It's the scary thing is not that

57:29

people make mistakes. That's kind of

57:31

just part of being human. You're gonna

57:33

fuck shit up. Like you're gonna fail

57:35

and that's okay. But if you look

57:38

at a failure as the end of

57:40

the road as opposed to either a

57:42

bump in the road or a fork

57:45

in the road, then like you're

57:47

attached to this thing that happened and

57:49

your life is gonna move forward. no

57:51

matter what you're attached to but if

57:54

you're not if you swim way out

57:56

into the ocean and don't come back

57:58

that's true that's true that's true but

58:01

you know we attach ourselves to

58:03

these things that happen and We almost

58:05

anchor our mind and our consciousness back

58:07

to those things. So as we're moving

58:10

forward in life, which everyone will continue

58:12

to do, we're still stuck. And if

58:14

you're stuck, you're actually not here. You're

58:17

not now. And now, this moment

58:19

right here is infinite. And it's the

58:21

only thing that exists. There's nothing... in

58:23

the past that exist. We're only right

58:26

here right now. And if you're still

58:28

tied to shit that's back there, you're

58:30

missing this beautiful opportunity to be right

58:33

here. Can I make a suggestion

58:35

for a fork in a career path

58:37

for you? Sure. And I think that

58:39

you would be, as somebody who is

58:42

a proponent for people taking care of

58:44

their mental health, you would be a

58:46

really good motivational trauma speaker. I think

58:49

there's a huge swath of humanity

58:51

that is suffering and don't know how

58:53

to, you know, kind of master living.

58:56

And there aren't enough people that go

58:58

through that and are as articulate as

59:00

you are about just how to, you

59:03

know, deal. And I don't know

59:05

if there's even if there's the places

59:07

where people can speak but you should

59:09

speak more on it I know people

59:12

who do like that motivational speaking circuit

59:14

it but motivational speaking is just really

59:16

generalized I'm talking about specifically survival yeah

59:19

after trauma yeah you know and

59:21

that's what it is motivational for me

59:23

90% of the motivational speakers are just

59:25

about success. Yeah, and I don't know

59:28

what success is. Success for me is

59:30

being able to make it through a

59:32

day. Success is, again, you wipe that

59:35

away, but success, when you put

59:37

success on money, when you put success

59:39

on notoriety, those are all fleeting, every

59:41

human being. Yeah, I have a question.

59:44

If you're comfortable getting into it. So

59:46

when you say success for you as

59:48

being able to get through a day,

59:51

what do you feel like the

59:53

obstacles are? In my own mind, I

59:55

live in terror and perpetuated usually by

59:57

OCD. I am incredibly, even as I

1:00:00

speak to you right now, medicated, so

1:00:02

for the most part, I'm numb. And

1:00:04

which is because the feelings are just

1:00:07

too much because I'm medicated. Yeah,

1:00:09

you know, because yeah, because I don't

1:00:11

know that I could and you know,

1:00:13

I'm diagnosed. It's biological, you know, and

1:00:16

I have some other problems too and

1:00:18

I deal with depression and I deal

1:00:20

with all that and it's just

1:00:22

really scary and I don't stay still.

1:00:25

Also I like to I run yeah,

1:00:27

all day long just because I like

1:00:29

to run all day long Do you

1:00:32

feel like you're worried about things in

1:00:34

the future or things now like what

1:00:36

where? My panacea is to try

1:00:38

to be in the now Okay, I

1:00:41

don't worry if I'm in the now.

1:00:43

That's why my favorite thing to do

1:00:45

is stand-up comedy Yeah, because in that

1:00:48

piece keeps me in the now and

1:00:50

I also still love thrill rides and

1:00:52

I like to be scared if

1:00:54

you if you're whipping me? I am

1:00:57

and I need that. When I stay

1:00:59

still, I'm concerned about what happened, which

1:01:01

doesn't really exist and it's only my

1:01:04

view on how it happened. You probably

1:01:06

don't see it the same way. Or

1:01:08

what might happen is always, I

1:01:11

think we all need to live in

1:01:13

the now because the now is the

1:01:15

only real. This particular moment that we

1:01:18

have. this second is the only reality

1:01:20

that exists. That's right. You know, and

1:01:22

so that I have to get through

1:01:25

moment by moment by moment. So,

1:01:27

and I'm also concerned that we as

1:01:29

a, as a, a race, don't take

1:01:31

care of our mental health like we

1:01:34

take care of our dental health. Yeah,

1:01:36

you know, and it's not really part

1:01:38

of the curriculum. It needs to be

1:01:41

part of the curriculum in the

1:01:43

way that, you know, you'll send your

1:01:45

kid to the dentist and go look

1:01:47

mom, no cavities and you brush your

1:01:50

teeth every day and you take care

1:01:52

of it. There's nobody, there's no program

1:01:54

that with a five-year-old that's, are

1:01:56

you, are your, spark plugs firing the

1:01:59

right way? in these needs. Maybe it

1:02:01

is because of something that wasn't. Yeah,

1:02:03

it's interesting. One of my one of

1:02:06

my favorite expressions is The only thing

1:02:08

in the future is anxiety and the

1:02:10

only thing in the past is

1:02:12

regret and that's how you know that

1:02:15

you're not sort of right here right

1:02:17

now Because right here right now all

1:02:19

of your needs are being met you're

1:02:22

closed you're fed you're comfortable you're safe

1:02:24

you're protected all of these things. So

1:02:26

really okay. You're fine You're fine

1:02:28

right now, like everything's okay. As soon

1:02:31

as I start thinking about, well, then

1:02:33

all of a sudden, I'm not okay.

1:02:35

Or if I start thinking about shit

1:02:38

I did and like mistakes I made,

1:02:40

I'm not okay either. But there's nothing

1:02:42

I can do about either of

1:02:44

those things anyway. And in terms of,

1:02:47

in terms of like trauma, it's very

1:02:49

interesting, you know, Gabore Matte, do you

1:02:51

know who he is? No, oh my

1:02:54

God, you've got to see this guy.

1:02:56

the ultimate voice of trauma and what

1:02:58

trauma is. Gabor? Gabor Matte. G-A-B-O-R-M-A-T-E

1:03:00

or M-A-T-T-E. That's the guy. That's the

1:03:03

guy. That's the guy. Oh, I've seen

1:03:05

him online. I didn't know who he

1:03:07

was. He's the best. I listened to

1:03:10

him. It's our response to it. Kind

1:03:12

of like if a kid falls

1:03:14

on the playground and you go, oh

1:03:16

nice, good one, hop up. And they

1:03:19

go, okay, I'm gonna go down the

1:03:21

slide again. But if a kid falls

1:03:24

on the playground and you go, oh

1:03:26

my God, are you okay? Is it,

1:03:28

did it, did it? Then all

1:03:30

of a sudden they go, oh wait,

1:03:33

something's wrong. Oh God, and then they

1:03:35

feel that. So it's like, it's always

1:03:37

what happened to us and how we

1:03:40

react to it. Everybody's going to suffer

1:03:42

some level of trauma, just living, is

1:03:44

traumatic. That's the human experience, man.

1:03:46

It really is. You're going to lose

1:03:49

somebody. It's one of the golden truths.

1:03:51

you're going to suffer. This is going

1:03:53

to hurt. But it's going to have

1:03:56

times in your life where you are

1:03:58

suffering and you are hurting. But then

1:04:00

there's going to be times where

1:04:02

it is beautiful. And if you're disconnected

1:04:05

from the suffering and from the hurt,

1:04:07

you're going to be disconnected from the

1:04:09

beautiful as well. So it's like you

1:04:12

just got to lean into whatever is

1:04:14

happening. I would imagine when you have

1:04:16

a moment and you're sitting with

1:04:18

your two babies just enjoying and laughing.

1:04:21

That is the... You know 180 degrees

1:04:23

from your darkest moment. You'll ever have

1:04:25

and there is always light at the

1:04:28

end of the tunnel always and But

1:04:30

that's really hard to live in the

1:04:32

moment. Yeah, we all need to

1:04:34

whether we've gone through whatever Yeah, if

1:04:37

you have OCD like me or the

1:04:39

deck stacked against us You know phones

1:04:41

social media all of these comparing your

1:04:44

insides to other people's outsides like all

1:04:46

of these things are stacked against

1:04:48

us and it makes it really difficult

1:04:50

and Maybe there's a design to it.

1:04:53

Maybe this is all some big thing

1:04:55

because if we are really truly connected

1:04:57

to what we're feeling and what we're

1:05:00

thinking and we let that be our

1:05:02

North Star, then you don't need

1:05:04

all of the shit that they're trying

1:05:06

to sell you. Wow. Wise words. A

1:05:09

lot of wise words today. Just making

1:05:11

it up as I go, man. No,

1:05:13

don't, don't, don't negate. Everything you said,

1:05:16

a lot of wise words were said

1:05:18

today. Do you want to, how

1:05:20

do they find your podcast? And what's

1:05:22

it called? Yeah, it's called Army Hammer

1:05:25

Time. I wanted to be just called

1:05:27

Hammer Time podcast, but lawyers wouldn't let

1:05:29

us. Yeah, so it's called Army Hammer

1:05:32

Time. It's just Army Hammer Time. We're

1:05:34

on YouTube, Spotify. We're on YouTube,

1:05:36

Spotify, Apple, anywhere where you get your

1:05:39

podcast. If you want to watch it,

1:05:41

you know, it's fun. How far out

1:05:43

are we from seeing? What kind of

1:05:46

movie is it? One was a Western,

1:05:48

one is a sort of like psychological

1:05:50

thriller. The next one I have

1:05:52

coming up is a really just kind

1:05:55

of like fun adventure movie and then

1:05:57

you're writing a comedy. There are funny

1:05:59

moments, but I would say It's very

1:06:02

autobiographical. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's the... That

1:06:04

one intrigues me. I'm using

1:06:06

what I went through and putting it

1:06:08

into something so that it never goes

1:06:11

to waste. Why don't you get to

1:06:13

work on it? What the fuck is

1:06:15

he going to Nashville for? What a

1:06:18

waste of time. Blake Shelton, bro.

1:06:20

He needs me. Are you working

1:06:22

with Blake? Yeah. Are you really?

1:06:24

Yeah. What are you doing in

1:06:26

Blake Shelton? So we're doing some

1:06:28

promos. A talent show. Oh, speaking

1:06:30

of talent shows, producer Jerry won

1:06:32

star search. Oh my God, doing

1:06:35

what? Tell them producer Jerry. Jerry

1:06:37

comes in a mic. Baby, shy.

1:06:39

Come to the mic. Jerry, what

1:06:41

did you do? I was in a band

1:06:43

back in the day. What band? Nothing

1:06:45

you ever heard of. Oh name the band

1:06:47

and what is it? The worst name ever.

1:06:49

Name the band name you named the band.

1:06:52

Okay before I'm going to tell you I'm

1:06:54

going to give you a caveat. Never put

1:06:56

limited in the name of something you want

1:06:58

to perpetuate. We were called

1:07:01

limited warranty. Okay go go

1:07:03

ahead. Limited warranty. Jerry also was

1:07:05

one of Prince's drummers. You were one.

1:07:07

Wait a minute Jerry. Are you Sheila

1:07:09

E? Prince, Prince only referred, Prince only

1:07:11

referred to Jerry as white Jerry. That's

1:07:13

true. As opposed to, he always, so

1:07:15

he wouldn't confuse you with Sheila E. Yeah,

1:07:17

exactly. I wasn't, I wasn't groovy enough. But

1:07:19

no, army, please qualify that. I never performed

1:07:21

with Prince. I was, you were his rehearsal

1:07:24

drummer and when Prince would want to play

1:07:26

at one o'clock in the morning all night

1:07:28

long, he would call Jerry to sit in

1:07:30

with Sunny sunny and the black pack? 100%

1:07:32

go over there go over there now go

1:07:34

over there now wait I want to do

1:07:36

the song for him first though white Jerry

1:07:38

you guys will talk he's going over there

1:07:40

and when we're ready that's how we're gonna

1:07:43

go out on you and Jerry you guys

1:07:45

talk over negative we're not gonna do this

1:07:47

song no we'll go out with or tell

1:07:49

him to play drums on it he's coming

1:07:51

in well look at that so is it

1:07:53

synergy so what's it with like Shelton

1:07:55

is he playing drums he playing drums

1:07:57

or is he playing with the TV

1:08:00

So he won star search one Star Search. Wow,

1:08:02

yeah, yeah, I I have an affinity

1:08:04

for talent shows. Yeah, I shows. Yeah.

1:08:06

I can imagine that you would.

1:08:08

Right after this, I'm heading

1:08:10

over to AGT. Oh, there you go.

1:08:12

go. There you go. Yeah, Wait, I

1:08:14

can't wait to hear Jerry

1:08:16

sing. Look at wait to hear Jerry bring

1:08:19

look at look at you you bring knowledge Yeah, so you're

1:08:21

gonna tell him the theme to tell him

1:08:23

the theme song and we're

1:08:25

going to sing and we're going

1:08:27

to play play the play the the

1:08:29

Hammer theme song. song I can't, I can't

1:08:31

with the new drummer. drummer. Oh, okay,

1:08:33

Let's do it. We'll follow.

1:08:35

follow. we'll right. We got it. right.

1:08:37

A lot right. A lot of

1:08:39

breaks. A lot of weird things.

1:08:42

just throw it out. Sorry. we go. we go.

1:08:44

two. Yeah.

1:09:42

Stop. Armie Hammer

1:09:44

time. Oh.

1:09:59

gonna run now,

1:10:02

But how

1:10:04

we mendel,

1:10:06

yeah. Yeah. Very

1:10:09

nice. Very.

1:10:11

Very. There

1:10:16

you go.

1:10:39

Yeah. Brother,

1:11:09

that's amazing. great player, man. You're

1:11:11

amazing. Yeah, you got it. That's

1:11:13

amazing. Evidence of a missed menu.