0:00

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where

0:02

we discuss science and science-based tools for

0:05

everyday life. I'm

0:09

Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor

0:11

of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford

0:13

School of Medicine. My

0:15

guest today is David Goggins. David

0:18

Goggins is a retired Navy SEAL who

0:20

served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's

0:23

also a highly accomplished ultramarathon runner.

0:26

For those of you that don't know,

0:28

ultramarathons are distances longer than 26 miles,

0:30

and in David's case, often longer than

0:32

200 miles. For his

0:34

achievements in athletics, he has been inducted

0:37

into the International Sports Hall of Fame.

0:39

He also held a Guinness World Record

0:41

for the most pull-ups completed in 24

0:43

hours. I should mention that not

0:45

only was David a decorated Navy SEAL, but

0:48

he also graduated from Army Ranger School. David

0:51

is also a highly successful writer, having

0:53

authored two books, the first entitled, Can't

0:55

Hurt Me, and the second entitled, Never

0:57

Finished, both of which are

0:59

bestsellers. David's books cover many

1:02

topics, including his autobiographical description

1:04

of what can only be described as

1:07

an incredibly challenging child and young

1:09

adulthood. His home was

1:11

abusive, his school environment was abusive,

1:13

he essentially had no positive resources

1:15

directed his way. And

1:18

in his 20s, he found himself to be obese,

1:20

that is more than 300 pounds

1:22

working a job he despised for minimal

1:24

pay. And it was at that point

1:27

that David began an inner dialogue

1:30

that forced him to explore the demons

1:32

born out of his childhood, but

1:34

also the position that he found himself in as a young

1:36

man. And then began

1:38

the journey to navigate that dialogue

1:40

and transform himself into the Navy

1:42

SEAL, the ultramarathon runner, the best-selling

1:44

author, and the extraordinarily positive and

1:46

influential man that he is today.

1:49

As some of you may know, David

1:51

has done various public lectures. He's a

1:54

familiar face online because there are so

1:56

many clips of him on YouTube, and he

1:58

has done podcasts for the past few years. before. However,

2:01

I'm certain that you'll find today's discussion

2:03

to be very different than previous podcasts

2:06

that David has been featured on. The

2:09

reason is that, of course, we get into

2:11

his accomplishments. We talk about the mindset that

2:13

allowed him to achieve those things, but

2:15

today David really lets us under the

2:17

hood. He lets us into the form

2:19

of inner dialogue that he has to

2:22

embrace, indeed that he has to grapple

2:24

with on a daily basis, sometimes multiple

2:26

times throughout the day and night, in

2:28

order to impose the sort of self-

2:31

discipline that he is so well known for. We

2:33

also get into some of the

2:35

scientific mechanisms underlying willpower, and we

2:37

talk about David's current endeavors that

2:39

include, for instance, his

2:41

own exploration of science and medicine for

2:44

which he has become an intense scholar

2:46

and practitioner. I should mention that

2:49

multiple times throughout today's discussion, you

2:51

will hear curse words. Now

2:53

David and I both acknowledge that cursing isn't

2:56

for everybody and that

2:58

cursing itself is different than cursing

3:00

at somebody. Nonetheless, we

3:03

do realize that many people, parents

3:05

perhaps especially, might not

3:08

want to hear cursing. If you don't want to

3:10

hear cursing, well then this podcast

3:12

episode is probably not for you. However, if

3:14

you are comfortable with cursing or if you

3:16

can tolerate it, I assure

3:19

you today's discussion is

3:21

highly worthwhile. Before we

3:23

begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is

3:25

separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.

3:28

It is, however, part of my desire

3:30

and effort to bring zero cost to

3:32

consumer information about science and science-related tools

3:34

to the general public. In keeping

3:36

with that theme, I'd like to thank

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and I've been using one ever since. Aeropress

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eightsleep.com/Huberman. And now for my discussion

7:56

with David Goggins, David Goggins,

7:58

welcome. My man. Good

8:00

to see you again, man. Great to see you. It

8:03

was late 2016, early 2017, I believe, when you

8:05

were in my lab at Stanford. Yes, sir. We

8:08

did a little work later that day down in

8:10

San Jose. Gosh,

8:13

see you everywhere, but it's not enough. So great to have

8:16

you here. Thanks for having me on, brother. You

8:19

embody discipline and doing hard

8:22

things. Right. I think you

8:24

just start right off with the bold truth. Just go there.

8:28

But right before we went hot mics,

8:31

we were talking about learning. Right

8:34

now, you're spending some time learning and

8:37

doing things that I think most people probably don't

8:39

typically associate David Goggins with. Why don't you tell

8:41

us about that? Well, most people just look at

8:43

me as the guy that runs and

8:45

yells as he's running. While

8:48

I do that, it's to motivate people,

8:51

but people don't understand that my

8:53

day is broken up into segments. I

8:56

work out, I eat, I sleep, but

8:58

I spend most of my time studying. So

9:01

I'm in the medical world. I'm

9:04

a paramedic in Canada, but

9:06

I spend a lot of my time trying to

9:08

nuke every single thing about

9:10

it because I'm not trying to just

9:13

be a paramedic, learn about veins and arteries and

9:15

how the heart pumps and stuff like that. I'm

9:18

trying to learn to the point where I can save

9:20

someone's life. And even though paramedics are

9:22

doing that all over the world, I'm

9:24

trying to be that paramedic that can

9:26

really dissect exactly what's going on and

9:28

figure out what medication goes where. Just

9:31

trying to learn the algorithm of what's

9:33

going on, man. So I spend a

9:35

lot of time with it. I love

9:37

the word algorithm because when I teach

9:39

biology or try and learn anything that's

9:42

related to biology, especially the human body, I

9:44

need to know the nouns, but

9:46

it's the verbs that matter and that's really what you're talking

9:49

about. Like just saying that sits

9:51

there, that brain part there, doesn't tell you

9:53

how it all works together. So

9:55

what is your process for studying look like? Like

9:57

if we dropped a... a

10:01

camera in the room, but a microphone into

10:03

that, into your inner

10:05

dialogue. Gosh, wouldn't we all love that? But

10:07

if we dropped a microphone into your inner

10:09

dialogue, are you waking up looking at the

10:11

books and going, yeah, fresh day, let's

10:14

learn. Or is some of the

10:16

same resistance that you've talked

10:18

about coming up around physical work,

10:20

is that coming up from time to time? You know

10:22

what? I was nervous at first. I'm gonna

10:24

keep the mother, I'm gonna keep it real. I'm

10:27

gonna keep it real. So I'm

10:29

not a real smart guy. And

10:31

what I mean by that is I was

10:34

born with ADD, ADHD. My

10:36

brain cannot retain information. I'm

10:39

not some genetic frequent, it comes to running, it

10:41

comes to lifting weights. I am absolutely the bottom

10:43

of the barrel. And people

10:45

will never believe me. And

10:48

they can just, you know, whatever, believe what you want

10:50

to believe. So we're asking this

10:52

question about what does

10:54

studying look like for me? I

10:57

have to go over the same page over

11:00

and over and over and over again.

11:02

While Jennifer can look at that page,

11:04

while she's, you know, quizzing

11:06

me, she'll learn it, right? Then as she's,

11:09

she'll learn anything about it. She

11:11

will quiz herself or quiz me and learn

11:13

it as she's quizzing me. It's

11:16

the most frustrating thing in the world, how my brain

11:18

works. So what I do is

11:20

I literally sit there with a pen

11:22

and paper and I have my books

11:25

and I go through, have to write everything

11:27

down every single

11:29

day. I will study the

11:32

same page until it's photographic

11:35

memory from writing the

11:37

same thing down. And then from there I'll

11:39

go back through and relearn again. So

11:41

I'll learn the bulk of it,

11:45

but then I'll go through and learn the

11:47

small things within that. So

11:49

if it's a medication, I'll

11:52

learn what the medication does. First

11:55

I'll learn how to even say the medication because

11:58

these medications aren't like, you know, Like,

12:01

Albuterol, no, it's very big word. So I'll

12:03

go through, learn how to say the name.

12:05

Then I'll go through, learn what the dose

12:07

is. Then I'll go through, and

12:09

this is like every single day. So I'm like,

12:11

oh, I got it. Let's just

12:14

go through, no, nothing is, I got it. Every

12:16

single thing, so I

12:19

can't wait to get in this conversation, because everything I do

12:21

in life, it sucks.

12:24

Everything I do in life, it sucks. That's why when

12:26

I was 300 pounds and 24 years old, it

12:30

wasn't like I had some big epiphany of,

12:33

let's just go be a Navy SEAL, let's

12:36

lose some weight. No, I knew

12:38

my entire life was gonna

12:40

be a struggle, which is why

12:42

I just ignored it. And I

12:44

said, I'm not even trying to jump off

12:47

into this shit and learn how to read,

12:49

how to write, how to memorize, how

12:52

to become something I am not. But

12:55

through that process, something happened

12:57

to me. And I realized, this

12:59

is why I feel sorry for no one.

13:02

In this podcast, they're gonna really not like

13:04

me, because people

13:07

are gonna think that I am maybe

13:10

lying, or maybe fibbing,

13:13

or exaggerating. No, I

13:15

am literally, I was the lowest form on

13:18

earth. No talent, no

13:21

ability to learn. And I

13:23

literally know what it is to be rock bottom

13:25

and to build that up. So

13:27

that question about learning, it's a pain in my

13:29

ass. And I don't have to do it. So

13:32

think about it, I'm 49 years old and I'm a

13:34

multi-millionaire. I don't have

13:36

to do anything. So all I thought about when I

13:38

was growing up is, man,

13:42

I can't wait to one day get to the

13:44

point where I no longer have to

13:46

do this stuff. But what

13:48

happens, I got older, it became a way of

13:50

living. So how I do every day,

13:52

it's how I do every day. It's

13:54

a discipline, it's a regimen. It

13:57

was a choice I made. choice

14:00

I made was what are you

14:02

willing to sacrifice and what

14:04

are you willing to give up to find

14:06

every bit of who you are as a

14:08

human being? And I was willing to give

14:10

everything to do that. So studying

14:12

is no joke. I

14:14

love that you're studying. I recall a few years ago I

14:17

heard some

14:19

interview or podcasted you and you just threw out

14:21

like, I don't know what I'll

14:23

do next. Maybe I'll be a scientist. And I

14:25

went, yeah. I was like, because I knew, because

14:27

I know you a bit and I see your

14:29

work out there, but we had met before that

14:32

if you decided that you were going to

14:34

do it. And learning medicine,

14:37

which is what you're doing, learning human

14:39

physiology is so detailed. And

14:42

people out there have to

14:44

understand when you look at a textbook and

14:47

you see the veins and the capillaries, different

14:49

colors, when the body's open, they're not different

14:51

colors. So

14:53

I mean, some things are at different color contrast, but

14:55

it's not like it's all labeled when you pop it

14:57

open. And so

15:00

the process of writing things down by hand is important

15:02

for you. So you go back and read those notes.

15:04

Do you think about that stuff on your runs too?

15:07

Or are you segmenting your day? Like when you're done

15:09

studying, are you heading out for a run and

15:11

thinking about other things? Or are you still

15:14

rehearsing the material in your head? So when I

15:16

write it down, I write

15:18

it down and I'm able to,

15:20

I'm actually looking down at this table right now,

15:23

because I'm back to write. So I'm actually there

15:25

right now as I'm speaking to you. I

15:27

write it down in a way that I'm memorizing

15:29

page 69. So

15:33

I'm writing it down. So then writing it down

15:35

in that page synced together in my brain. So

15:38

I'm looking at the book in my

15:40

brain right now. So like, that's

15:43

just how it works for me. And I have to

15:45

do it over and over again. So that page is

15:48

stuck in my mind. So I'm literally flipping through

15:50

pages as I'm taking these tests

15:52

and I'm taking these national tests to become a

15:55

paramedic or become an advanced EMT or whatever.

15:57

I'm literally, as I'm taking that test. I'm

16:00

going through and I'm like, now

16:04

I'm flipping pages in my head of where that page was. And

16:07

how I do that is just from how

16:09

I write it and how it's on the page. When

16:11

I run, I can't recall

16:13

any of it. I

16:17

cannot bring any of that because I'm

16:19

running. How my mind is wired

16:21

now is that everything I do is

16:24

what I do. Because the focus

16:26

it takes for me to, like right now, I'm

16:28

running. I'm not like a

16:30

great runner. I'm not like injury

16:32

free. So like my first 20 minutes

16:35

of the run, I'm limping.

16:38

I'm literally limping because I've had

16:40

several knee surgeries and

16:42

my body was twisted and so now it's untwisting.

16:44

So people look at me, Oh, it looks like

16:46

he's limping, you know, like limping when he runs.

16:48

I am limping when I run. My

16:51

body's jacked up. So I'm focusing on how to

16:53

get the best of a broken body.

16:56

So everything I do is a

16:58

total focus on what I'm doing at that, at that

17:00

point in my life. So it seems

17:02

like you've really trained away or

17:04

somehow gotten away from the ADD that you

17:07

mentioned because what you described as a deep

17:09

trench, like a V shaped trench. I'm imagining

17:11

like there's a ball bearing and it's like,

17:14

and it can only go forward in that trench or

17:17

back. And it goes forward. It's not like

17:19

sliding around at the like concave at the

17:21

bottom, like attention. So

17:24

it's like you've trained that up. Is

17:26

there a similar feeling when you're in the

17:28

full focus of running versus full

17:30

focus of studying, is it kind of feel

17:32

like, Oh yeah, that's the same groove but

17:34

different thing or is it

17:37

just completely different world? It's a completely different

17:39

world. Like it's just, both

17:41

of them for me is suffering, but suffering

17:43

a whole different way. Like when

17:46

I was going through school, I

17:48

never forget, I think I was in third

17:50

grade and back

17:52

then, you know, ADD, ADHD wasn't like,

17:54

you know, here's this medicine or here's

17:56

this thing. They want to put you

17:59

in a special. school. So

18:01

for me, I was so far behind

18:03

and learning that their big thing was, let's

18:06

just put him in a special school because he'll never

18:08

learn. And through

18:10

that process of like, I don't want to

18:12

be in a special school. I

18:15

don't want to be treated any differently. It

18:17

really, like I never took medication. I've

18:20

never taken medication for this. That's all right now.

18:22

You see me looking right in your eyes. What

18:25

the hell is, you know, it's human

18:27

saying right now. And that's why I

18:29

don't feel bad for people who have

18:31

ADHD, who have learned disabilities.

18:34

And some are impossible because

18:37

you just can't, but a

18:39

lot of them you can. And, but people

18:41

don't want to go through the process of

18:43

focus, of teaching

18:45

yourself how to truly focus. This is where

18:48

my message gets lost. It

18:50

gets lost because I may say, you know,

18:52

MF or F, you know, I may be,

18:54

because that's the passion that comes

18:56

out of me. Cause that's, it takes

18:59

everything for me to learn a sentence.

19:02

So when I speak about David Goggins, I

19:04

can't speak about David Goggins in a way

19:06

that's just calm and cool. Because

19:09

when I wake up, I know the journey that takes for

19:11

me to find my greatness and it's

19:14

hard. Every, nothing is

19:16

easy. Nothing just like, Oh,

19:18

I wake up and I just do this or I

19:20

do that. Or it just, you know, I watch people

19:22

every day go through life and it's so easy for

19:26

me to be where I'm at today. It takes

19:28

every bit of me. So when I speak

19:30

about it and as I

19:32

get going here, you'll start seeing me, the

19:35

temple will rise. The passion will come out

19:37

because I'm back there. I'm doing what I

19:39

do every day to become a human being.

19:42

And so nothing is easy. Like

19:44

running is running. It sucks,

19:47

but you have a choice to make. Do you

19:49

want to sit down and go back to that guy

19:51

you once were? No. So

19:53

this is what it takes. This takes

19:56

that misunderstanding of people and they'll never get

19:58

it because they were never David. of the

20:00

Goggins. That is what

20:02

it takes for me to do what I do. It may take

20:04

you something differently. So for me, everything

20:06

has to be in the study and everything has to

20:08

be into this. Everything has to be everywhere I am

20:11

has to be there. Me, focus where I am. That's

20:13

why you're my second pocket. I've done this as a

20:15

book came out. I don't have

20:18

time for that shit because if

20:20

I want to be great, I'm not trying to

20:22

maximize money or maximize people

20:24

know with me. I do

20:26

these things because maybe someone out there will

20:29

understand me and get it

20:31

and say, I can grow from this guy

20:33

and others just won't. Sounds

20:36

like friction is something you're very familiar with.

20:38

I just, it's a word just as I

20:40

feel like it's like cast above us right

20:42

now in boldface highlighted underlined letters. Friction

20:45

is growth. Friction. Like you're, you're up

20:47

in the morning and I imagine David

20:49

Goggins going to the coffee maker stretching

20:51

out good morning sunshine. And you're telling

20:54

me from eyelids open,

20:57

there's friction. Yes. And that

20:59

is the thing that people don't, they

21:01

don't fucking get the biggest misunderstanding about

21:03

David Goggins of all time. It's

21:06

like, whether you believe in God or not, I do. He

21:10

put this lab rat, which is me on

21:13

this planet and said, let

21:15

me fucking see what

21:17

a beat up abused kid who

21:20

has, who can barely learn, barely learn,

21:23

who has a twisted body, messed

21:25

up, messed up genetics, sickle cell,

21:27

this and that. Let

21:30

me give him everything that pretty much

21:32

disqualifies you from the military. But back

21:34

then it wasn't estrus and

21:36

let's put them in this and

21:38

see what comes out of it. So to

21:40

do that friction, you

21:42

don't wake up in the morning time and go to the coffee

21:44

maker. Matter of fact, sometimes I'm asleep. Whatever

21:48

it requires is when I'm

21:50

at two o'clock in the morning and

21:53

my brain is thinking about a fucking drug and

21:55

I got to get up and look in my book to see

21:58

if that drug is how I remember. And

22:01

this is every day of my

22:03

fucking life. That's why I'm not trained a

22:05

fighter or I trained some. I'm like, you

22:07

have no fucking idea how great you really are because

22:11

you are using such

22:13

minimal, minimal of what

22:15

you have. And

22:17

if people can learn to focus, this

22:20

is what's possible. While it may not be

22:23

pretty, like people want to do a documentary on me. I go,

22:25

no. I

22:27

want to do documentary on me because

22:29

I will have normal everyday people

22:31

picking me apart. His

22:34

life is miserable. Who wants

22:36

to live like that? He looks,

22:38

it's crazy how he's, someone's like, he's sick.

22:41

He's psychotic. The

22:44

most frustrating thing in the world for me is when

22:47

normal people judge a man like

22:49

myself on what it really

22:51

takes to extract

22:55

greatness from nothing. It

22:58

takes every bit of who you are. If

23:00

you choose that route, if

23:02

you don't, Merry Christmas, do

23:04

what you got to do. But

23:07

yeah, all these things for me, like,

23:09

like I told you, I'm going to keep it real. I'm

23:13

not coming here to talk about like, you

23:15

know, perform without purpose.

23:18

Because I go through, when I write these

23:20

books, I go through, I

23:22

try to dumb down David Goddard's. How

23:25

can I give normal people, and I'm normal,

23:28

but I found something that most don't want to find.

23:31

How can I speak to people and give them

23:33

something from this crazy psychotic

23:35

brain that I've developed? How

23:37

can I give them that? So I sit down

23:39

with Jennifer for years and write

23:41

down, perform without purpose, callus

23:44

your mind, armor your

23:47

mind, the cookie jar, the accountability

23:49

mirror, shit that people can fucking

23:51

use in their lives. No,

23:54

no. I'm glad it helps you, but the barbaric

23:57

life that I've done, I'm going to give you a little

24:00

I live that you have

24:02

to live the almost obsession that you

24:04

must have to be great. You

24:06

can't put that shit in the fucking book, bro. You

24:09

can't put in the book. Yeah. You

24:11

can't write about it. It has to be experienced. It

24:14

has to be experienced. And you can't

24:16

even, after you experience it, to

24:19

write it in the book, it

24:21

would seem like you need to be locked up. This

24:24

is too gory. It's too gory. It doesn't

24:26

make sense for a guy that everything, every

24:28

second of the day, he

24:31

is trying to extract more from

24:33

something. He's

24:35

constantly thinking, constantly, constantly

24:37

discipline, never going off the path, whatever

24:40

is injured on him. He figures

24:42

away. It's a conqueror's

24:45

mindset. And

24:47

very few people, if any, can

24:50

really understand what that is. Like

24:53

I'm almost 50. And

24:56

I've been this way for almost 30 years. Like

24:59

what you do for fun. You

25:01

never, like these questions, I don't get

25:03

them. I don't understand them. I don't,

25:06

so yeah. I get asked that sometimes when you

25:08

for fun start listing off all the stuff like

25:10

podcasts and reading, working out. But

25:14

so some of that resonates, but I think what's

25:16

so truly unusual

25:18

about what you're describing your

25:20

process is that,

25:22

you know, from go, it's hard.

25:25

And I have to ask was being 300 pounds,

25:28

having a sense, I'm using the words

25:31

you've described. You've said it before.

25:33

You had a tendency at one point in

25:35

your life, early on tell lies, try

25:37

and get people's approval, crazy

25:40

haircuts, attention seeking, and, and yet.

25:45

All of that triggered something

25:48

that now is, you know, is extraordinary.

25:51

Right. Do you

25:53

think those hardships were

25:55

necessary to flip the switch?

25:58

I don't know if they were necessary. But

26:01

it was something that made me

26:03

feel, I didn't feel good. It

26:06

was easy. The

26:09

brain that I was given as a child,

26:12

it was easy to go home and think about what, how

26:15

do I want to be a freak today? How

26:17

do I want to show up to school today and be a freak? It

26:20

didn't require me going home and opening a book up

26:22

saying, it's going to take

26:24

me all year to learn this fucking page. So

26:27

instead of learning that page, I

26:29

learned how to become a

26:31

character. And maybe

26:35

that character that I created, that

26:37

300 pound insecure guy

26:39

that used to fake it till I make

26:41

it type of guy, let me become

26:43

your friend. Let me lie to you until you

26:45

like me type of guy. When

26:49

you have any kind of, any

26:51

manhood, womanhood, a

26:54

human being, a soul, a

26:56

spirit, I had no, I

26:59

must have just this much pride because

27:01

that's exactly what opened the door for me. Because

27:04

every day you were a character, every day you were

27:06

a clown, every day you

27:08

opened that Spanish book or that science

27:10

book or English book. And you looked

27:12

at it, it looked like a foreign

27:15

language. And you're

27:18

saying, where do I start? Where

27:20

do I start? And obviously

27:23

it wasn't necessary. The more I talk about it,

27:25

it wasn't necessary. Because what happened is

27:28

I became haunted by

27:30

the mere fact that this is my existence.

27:33

And you got to live with that.

27:35

Now I lived with it for a lot of years. And

27:38

so I sat back and said, okay, all

27:40

right, I know what this takes. And

27:43

when you sit back as

27:45

fucked up as I was, and I had

27:48

a laundry list, a table

27:50

like this of what I have to do

27:52

to become just a human being that

27:55

can make ends meet, that

27:57

can make $1,000 a month just to get there. was

28:00

like, oh my God, dude, like how they, I'm 16, 17, I

28:03

can't read, I can't write. And

28:08

I, oh my God, I'm

28:10

so behind the power curve and my brain is about

28:13

being depressed and my dad beat, my mom's not

28:15

home and kids are calling me nigger

28:17

at school. And I'm like, oh my God, man, what the

28:19

fuck do I do? And

28:22

it wasn't like someone came around and said, hey, man, you

28:25

can do this. This is all me.

28:29

Some people know where's this cold man come

28:31

from. I'm not trying to be cold.

28:34

It's the reality of my life. It's

28:37

the reality of a lot of people's lives. And

28:40

so, yeah, that had

28:42

to happen for me to be haunted, to

28:44

be haunted to pull out, to extract the guy there in

28:46

the day. That haunting

28:49

is something that's still there today because

28:52

no matter how much you improve, no matter how much

28:54

you change who you are, it's

28:57

not permanent. You'll

28:59

just wake up and say, oh my

29:01

God, man, you're David Goggins. You

29:04

break records. You do this, you do that. People

29:06

want to know how are you able

29:08

to just be

29:10

so hard to never turn

29:12

the fucking thing off? Because once

29:15

it turns off, I

29:17

go right back to the David Goggins that is.

29:20

And that's the guy that I'm constantly fighting every

29:22

day. And it's a choice. And

29:25

that choice makes you misunderstood. It makes you

29:27

crazy. That's why I hate

29:29

fucking social media. In 2013, people

29:32

wanted me to write my book. I

29:35

did it in 2018. It took five years.

29:39

And the reason why I didn't do it, I set a

29:41

table and Jennifer was there. It's before she started

29:43

working for me, I started dating or

29:45

whatever. And all these people were there.

29:47

And they're like, man, you got to

29:49

go on social media. And

29:51

I was like, fuck you, man. It's

29:54

poison. It's

29:56

poison because I knew what I did to get where I am. And

30:00

I'm going to have these people, these

30:02

normal everyday people, fat,

30:05

lazy, exactly who I

30:07

was judging

30:09

me. Because I know

30:11

it, because I was once them. All

30:14

my hard work, all my dedication, I'm going to have

30:16

some normal dude get his

30:18

little brownies, little ding-dongs, ho-ho, twinkies,

30:21

sit there with this coffee, picking

30:23

me apart. Oh, he must be unhappy.

30:27

You know how hard it

30:29

is to put these shoes on every damn morning and

30:31

I'm going to have you pick me apart? Yeah.

30:36

There's so much

30:38

that goes into this that I

30:40

was like, fuck this. I never

30:42

want anything to do with it. So

30:46

anyway. I'm

30:48

not a psychologist, but knowing

30:51

your story from what you've written, what you've said on

30:54

social media and elsewhere podcasts and

30:56

here now especially, it's amazing to

30:59

me. And frankly, it pulls at

31:01

my heartstrings a little bit. I realize that's not what you're

31:03

trying to do, but that in the course

31:05

of your childhood and in your young

31:07

adulthood, that no one ever got between you

31:09

and the world. I forget

31:12

where I heard it, that if a kid

31:14

has just one person that believes in them,

31:16

and I had my trials and tribulations, but

31:18

I had great coaches, great mentors, I

31:20

attached to them, I found them if they didn't necessarily

31:22

find me. But I'm realizing

31:24

that your situation was no

31:27

one's ever said, hey, I'm going to stand

31:29

here next to you or get in front

31:31

of you, put a shield up. And

31:34

so it's almost like you've

31:37

got these different, it's

31:39

all you, but there's versions of yourself that

31:42

you knew, social media, I don't know that I have

31:44

the wherewithal in 2013, 2014, 2015,

31:48

2017 to get in front of myself while doing all

31:50

this, because I've already got so much going on in

31:53

here. Is that about right? That is right. But I

31:55

had developed a lot of anger and I

31:57

still have it. It will never go away. for

32:01

the normal human beings of this world.

32:04

Because when you put yourself in the

32:06

sewer, like I was in, and please,

32:09

if someone saved me, come out and

32:11

announce it to the world. There's no

32:13

one, there's no one. So

32:16

when you know that, and then

32:18

I'm sitting at a table with all these smart people

32:21

who are telling me what to do and shit and

32:23

guiding me through my life now, where

32:25

I'm 40 fucking years old, you know,

32:27

I don't know, 40 something years

32:29

old now, I'm 49. I'm

32:32

looking at them all, and they're now trying to

32:34

guide me on what's right, on

32:37

this poison. And

32:39

so, yeah, what you say is right,

32:41

but for me, it was more of,

32:44

I know now. I

32:46

don't need you to guide my

32:49

future. I know what's

32:51

good for me, it was bad for me. And

32:54

for me, it took every bit of focus I

32:56

could, I know social media, that's why people love

32:58

to go on there. Because

33:00

they want to show you the good side of

33:03

life. I'm

33:05

not teaching good side of life. So

33:08

I had to figure out a way when I came out in 2016, of

33:11

teaching you what life

33:13

really is for the majority

33:15

of us is hell. And

33:17

so while people love to

33:20

show you the cars, and

33:22

the house, and the vacations and shit, all

33:24

that's good, all that's happy. I'm

33:27

gonna show you the side that I know

33:29

most of you are going through. And

33:32

people hide very well. I

33:34

don't wanna hide anymore, I hid it for

33:36

24 fucking years. That's why

33:38

now I told you, we can talk about it whatever you want.

33:41

Because as human beings, the

33:45

first thing we have to learn, I also studied real bad

33:47

growing up. So if you hear me study every now and

33:49

then, it's because that

33:51

was part of my life also. So

33:55

it's funny, human beings wanna show you the best side,

33:58

and they wanna hide the worst side. For

34:00

me, I'm going to teach you how to be vulnerable. Cause

34:03

that's the only way you fix yourself. You

34:06

don't fix yourself by coming out here and

34:08

me selling you some fucking books. That's why

34:10

I don't have them. I forgot them. I'm

34:13

glad people got something from the book. I

34:17

want you to learn that the only

34:19

way you grow is how

34:22

to look at yourself and say, okay, like

34:24

I did, table

34:26

longer than this. What the fuck I have to do to

34:28

get somewhere. There was

34:30

nothing good on there. Nothing.

34:32

Yeah. I love playing basketball. I left that

34:34

out. That's something I love to do. I

34:37

don't care about that. That's it. Make the fucking list. Cause

34:40

the list that I had to live by was it was the

34:43

very list that was to get me at this

34:45

table with you to

34:47

talk to you to the normal

34:49

human beings, which I once was about

34:52

how you can get somewhere and

34:55

how it looks, looks very ugly.

34:58

There's no fucking passion. No

35:01

fucking motivation. There's no, oh my

35:03

God, man. I fucking, this is

35:05

no, it's every day of your

35:07

life. Just doing no

35:11

passion, no discipline, no

35:13

motivation yet. All these words I hate people. I

35:15

hate that so many people fucking use these words

35:18

now cause it's watered. It's someone

35:20

sitting in a room by themselves and they figure

35:23

themselves out and say, God, this is going to

35:25

fucking suck. Where's

35:28

passion when you're 300 pounds? Where's

35:31

the motivation when you can't read and write? Where

35:34

is it? So how did this happen? I

35:37

just fucking did. I just did.

35:40

I said, maybe at the end of this journey, there'll be something

35:42

there for me. If not, I can

35:44

read. If not,

35:46

I'm 185 fucking pounds. There's

35:50

no, there's no magic potion. There's

35:52

no, oh, let me wake up and look

35:55

at some shit. No, all those

35:57

words are overused. They're bullshit.

36:00

It's all bullshit. Just do. You're

36:03

living. How do you wanna live? How

36:05

do you wanna die? How do you wanna

36:07

fucking be remembered? That's

36:10

it. That's it. Period.

36:14

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36:16

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36:18

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36:30

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36:32

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36:41

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37:11

The word haunted is ringing

37:13

in my head. Yep. I

37:16

think it's such a powerful word. Yep. Because

37:19

I was about to say, seems

37:21

like a huge part of your process,

37:23

maybe the entire process is it's all

37:25

stick, no carrot. You know, you talk

37:27

about the carrot, the positive thing, and then

37:29

there's the stick, the thing you're trying to avoid. Yep. Feel

37:32

like it's, the way it's landing for me

37:34

is it's

37:37

all stick and gas pedal. Is it?

37:40

There's no carrot. You're not imagining, oh,

37:42

when I'm a paramedic, when the book

37:44

is published, and obviously you set those

37:47

goals and you make those targets. Yep. But

37:49

it's all stick. All stick. No

37:51

carrot. Think about that. I'm

37:54

waking up right now, studying, like

37:56

I have a test tomorrow. I

37:59

already passed the fucking. test. Think

38:02

about that. Every day in my

38:04

life, that's what I must

38:06

do just to retain what I learned. Four

38:09

hours plus a day, I go

38:11

through and do that. There's

38:13

no stick or there's only a stick. There's

38:16

never been a carrot, which is

38:18

why when I speak

38:20

to people, I have

38:23

to figure out a way to

38:26

resonate with them. Because all I want to say

38:28

to them is, let

38:33

me teach you the real life, how it really is.

38:35

The reason why you're a loser and the

38:37

reason why you're not fucking making it and

38:39

the reason why you're trying to go to all these, I

38:41

go to all these fucking conventions, speak all the fucking time.

38:44

I'm looking to the fucking audience and these

38:47

people sign up, sign up, sign up fucking

38:49

every year to go to the convention, thinking

38:51

they're going to learn something fucking different. No,

38:54

you're lazy. You know exactly

38:56

what to do, exactly what to

38:58

do. Because even me, in my

39:00

state of I can't read and write, I

39:03

knew exactly what to do. It

39:06

just sucks doing it. It

39:08

sucks to do it. It

39:11

sucks to wake up every morning of

39:13

your life and say, God, man, I'm

39:15

not smart. So guess what

39:17

I got to do? I got to study the same

39:19

shit that I got one of the

39:21

highest scores in the nation on and do

39:24

it again. Do it again. Do

39:26

it again. It's not just there. It's

39:28

not just there permanently for me. So

39:31

yeah, it's all stick. It's

39:33

all stick. The

39:36

only care that you have is

39:38

like, maybe,

39:42

maybe, because whenever I take these

39:44

tests, they're real hard. The back

39:46

of my brain is like, the good chance you're

39:48

not going to make it, Goggins. This

39:50

ain't you, bro. This

39:53

ain't you. You weren't born like

39:55

this. This ain't you, the real you, bro.

39:58

Study all you want to, but the second that fucker, computer

40:00

comes on with 150 questions, this

40:03

ain't you, man. And

40:05

somehow comes back, I passed. Passed

40:09

again, passed again. But

40:12

that rule of me back here

40:14

every fucking time is saying, that

40:16

ain't you, bro. That ain't

40:18

you. And I have to outwork

40:21

that voice. When

40:23

I'm taking that test and I get to a question, I don't fucking

40:25

know the answer. I'm like, fuck,

40:27

man. And then, I said, I told you,

40:29

man, that ain't you.

40:33

You're 300 pounds, man. You stay at home, you figure out how

40:35

to do your hair. That's what

40:37

you do, how to come to school with the reverse

40:39

baldness when you're 16. That's

40:43

you. So, there

40:46

is no get out of jail free card. This

40:49

is why I say stay hard. Because

40:52

when you weren't given the gifts, the

40:54

only thing you can do in life is stay

40:56

hard. And I

40:58

know people cannot stand me. They

41:01

can't stand this talk. This

41:04

is all you can do. There's

41:08

no magic pill or a magic potion.

41:11

All you can do is outwork the

41:14

man that God created or woman in

41:16

you. And what that looks like is

41:20

unfun. That's why I said, do

41:22

not do a documentary on me. Because

41:25

people will not see the truth. They

41:28

will see what they wanna see. I don't wanna live

41:30

like that. Good, good.

41:33

And you will live exactly the way you live

41:35

now, questioning who you

41:37

are, wondering what is possible, wondering

41:40

what you are capable of doing. That's

41:43

how that looks. Or you can be

41:45

me, which, am I happy? I

41:48

don't know, never really thought about it. Don't really care

41:50

about it. Because all I really cared about was

41:52

when I looked in that fucking mirror, I saw a piece of shit.

41:55

Happiness wasn't on the mirror at 16. Around

41:59

300 pounds. I'm looking for

42:01

happiness. No, I'm looking, looking at

42:03

myself in the mirror and say, all right, motherfucker,

42:05

you did it again today. You

42:08

a bad boy, because that shit sucks.

42:12

I have about a couple of minutes of that, right,

42:14

got the carrot. Second

42:17

lady and I go to bed, the carrot's gone because I'm waking up

42:19

all through the night to

42:21

check the work I did that day.

42:24

Did I get this drug right? Did I get this right? Did I

42:27

get that right? What did

42:29

I do? I'm

42:31

already losing it. Stick

42:37

haunting you. Haunting you. It's following you

42:39

around. So no picture of Jordan on

42:41

the wall, you're not listening to YouTube

42:43

inspiration video. That would be all your

42:45

voice anyway. You're

42:48

not listening to your top 10 favorite songs

42:50

just to get rolling and then lace the

42:52

shoes, hit the books. It's

42:54

all in here. All in there. I used

42:56

to do that when I was fat, Rocky, that

43:00

was my thing. Round 14

43:02

was my thing. And as

43:04

I got older and older and older, that

43:08

started to go away. And

43:11

I started to create, I

43:14

had all these people that I used to

43:16

watch. Rocky was one, Barnes, Elias, some platoon,

43:21

Jack from a Few Good Men. You

43:23

know, he's on the stand going crazy. I

43:26

saw a lot of these characters that I looked

43:28

at and I was like, man,

43:30

I ain't got none of that. But they were characters. After

43:34

a while, I lived

43:36

a life so disciplined that

43:39

everybody that I once looked to,

43:41

these fake characters, I

43:44

built that as a man. And

43:47

when I was younger, I had this image in

43:49

my mind of what does a man look like

43:51

to me? And

43:53

I got all these people who

43:55

were badasses, characters. And

43:58

in my mind, I became that.

44:02

And that's what kept me going a lot was I

44:04

had this pipe dream of becoming a little bit of

44:06

this and a little bit of that because when you

44:08

have no parents raising you and

44:11

you have no role models growing up,

44:14

you, it's not daydreaming.

44:17

You start to create a reality that, Hmm, maybe

44:23

I can be that. And

44:26

after becoming this

44:28

guy, that

44:31

is the biggest thing I can ever do in my life is

44:33

I became that guy that I

44:35

once looked at all these guys. Now look at myself

44:37

like, God, who the fuck can do that? I

44:40

can. But what it takes is

44:42

a discipline that no one

44:45

can ever even, they

44:47

just don't, they don't understand it. They

44:50

don't understand, but everybody has the ability to do it, but

44:53

they just don't want to. They want to keep asking

44:55

questions and keep going to seminars. And

44:58

the greatness is right in you. And that's why

45:00

once again, I'll say it's a million times here.

45:02

I do not feel sorry for you. I

45:05

will not sugar coat what I'm going

45:07

to say to you because all

45:09

of you know what I'm saying is the truth. Everybody

45:14

knows it's the truth. This is what it looks like. And you know what too, you

45:17

know what too, this is what if, if you ain't got nothing,

45:19

I hate to tell you what it looks like. It's ugly. It's

45:22

not a documentary. It's not an HBO special. You ain't going

45:24

to watch them. Hey, man, you guys got to watch this.

45:26

No, it's like, Oh God, this looks like a train wreck.

45:28

It's like a nightmare. This looks like this guy got no,

45:30

it's what it looks like. Hard

45:32

work looks horrible. It's

45:34

not motivating. It's not motivating at all.

45:37

It ain't like Rocky round 14. We get knocked down and

45:40

goes at this to Apollo Creed. It

45:42

looks like a man being stuck in a

45:44

fucking dungeon and there's no

45:46

fucking way out. But you

45:49

got the fucking key. But

45:52

you refuse to use it and that's not motivating about that. So

45:55

yes, no document on David Goggins. The

46:01

real life, David Gahlian is

46:03

the documentary. It's already

46:05

being written. You're

46:07

it. I'm going

46:09

to share a little neuroscience tidbit, but I

46:12

think it's one that you'll appreciate. Most

46:15

people don't know this, but there's

46:17

a brain structure called the anterior

46:19

mid-singulate cortex, as we pointed out before. That's a

46:21

noun. It's a name. It doesn't mean anything. We

46:23

could call it the cookie monster.

46:27

But what's interesting about this brain area is there are

46:29

now a lot of data in

46:31

humans. That's a mouse

46:33

study showing that when

46:35

people do something they don't want to

46:38

do, like add three hours

46:40

of exercise per day or

46:42

per week, or when people

46:44

who are trying to diet and lose weight resist

46:47

eating something. When

46:49

people do anything that they, and this is the

46:51

important part, that they don't want to do. It's

46:53

not about adding more work. It's about adding more

46:56

work that you don't want to do. This

46:58

brain area gets bigger. Now here's

47:01

what's especially interesting about this brain area to me.

47:03

And by the way, I'm only learning this recently

47:05

because it's new data, but there's a lot of

47:07

it. The anterior mid-singulate

47:10

cortex is smaller

47:12

in obese people. It

47:15

gets bigger when they diet. It's

47:18

larger in athletes. It's

47:21

especially large, or grows larger,

47:23

in people that see themselves

47:26

as challenged and overcome some

47:28

challenge. And

47:31

in people that live a very long time, this

47:35

area keeps its

47:37

size. In many ways,

47:39

scientists are starting to think of the anterior

47:42

mid-singulate cortex not just as one of the

47:44

seats of willpower, but

47:46

perhaps actually the seat of

47:48

the will to live. And

47:52

when I learned about the anterior mid-singulate cortex, I

47:54

was almost out of my seat. And I've been

47:56

in the neuroscience game since I was 20. We're

47:59

the same age. And I was so

48:01

pumped because I've heard of the amygdala fear prefrontal

48:03

cortex is planning an action. I

48:05

could tell you every brain area and every I

48:07

teach neuroanatomy to medical students, but When

48:10

I started seeing the data on the anterior

48:12

mid-singulate cortex I was

48:14

like Whoa This

48:16

is interesting. Yep And all

48:19

the data points to the fact that we can

48:21

build this area up. Yep But

48:23

that as quickly as we build it up If

48:26

we don't continue to invest in things that are

48:28

hard for us that we don't want to do

48:30

that's the part that Feels

48:32

so gogan-esque to me that

48:34

we don't want to do like if

48:36

you love the ice bath Yeah, I love the

48:38

ice bed. You go from one minute to 10

48:40

minutes. Guess what your anterior mid-singulate cortex did not

48:42

grow But if you hate

48:45

the cold water If you're

48:47

afraid of drowning and you get into water

48:49

and put your head under Yep Then

48:52

your anterior mids and survive then the anterior

48:54

mid-singulate cortex gets bigger But if you don't

48:56

do it the next day Or

48:59

if you do it the next day and you enjoy it

49:01

because hey, hey, I did it yesterday. Whoo Happy

49:04

me. Merry Christmas is right. Merry Christmas. Guess what?

49:07

The anterior mid-singulate cortex shrinks again. Yep,

49:09

to me This is one of the

49:11

most important discoveries that neuroscience has ever

49:13

made um Because

49:15

it's that I don't want

49:18

to do something but do it anyway That's

49:20

right that grows this area and

49:22

it's almost like I have a friend. He's been sober 30

49:24

years from alcohol And he always says, you

49:26

know, the amazing thing about addiction is there's

49:29

a cure The problem is it only

49:31

works one day at a time. Yep, and so

49:33

you have to renew it every day Right. So

49:35

the answer mid-singulate cortex to me when I learned

49:37

about it two two things went off in my

49:40

head Whoa, this is super interesting and two I

49:42

gotta tell david goggins about this and I waited

49:44

until now to tell you because I

49:46

felt like I well for obvious reasons

49:48

I wanted to tell you and I wanted to tell

49:50

you here. Well, I love that because

49:54

That's how I've lived my entire life. I don't know anything about

49:56

that But people will make

49:58

you have such a strong will It's

50:01

something that you build. Like, I never forget,

50:04

I was on a podcast one time and

50:06

this dude goes, you were blessed with

50:08

a strong mind. Like

50:14

the hell you talking about, I was blessed with a strong mind.

50:17

That's something that you have to develop. You

50:20

develop that over years,

50:24

decades of suffering and

50:26

going back into the suffer. That's

50:28

why a lot of people who graduate Navy SEAL training,

50:32

they were no, like, in

50:34

my, I talk about very openly

50:37

all the time, a

50:39

lot of guys don't go, don't want to

50:41

go back into that water. They want to

50:43

go back into the hard stuff. Maybe not

50:45

anything, anything hard, anything hard in

50:47

life. Once you get through

50:50

it, it's like you become a POW. Like

50:53

how many POWs you know want to go back to POW camp?

50:56

None. When something sucks so bad in life,

50:59

this is on this that we're

51:01

talking about now, very

51:03

few people want to go back. They're

51:06

happy they graduated. I

51:10

realized I'm the same way. I don't want

51:12

to go back. I

51:15

have to go back. I

51:17

must go back because that

51:19

is exactly where all the knowledge

51:21

of my life exists, was

51:23

back there and what you're exactly talking about.

51:26

I didn't know anything about this, but

51:28

how I grew a will was

51:31

constantly doing these things to

51:33

now, it's just

51:35

life. I

51:37

wake up while it still sucks, it's just life. You

51:40

don't sit back and like, oh my God, like I have days I

51:42

don't want to do, but I know I'm going to do it. I

51:46

know from years of just doing it. So

51:51

that's beautiful. This is why I came on here with

51:53

you today. I'm glad you're talking about this because

51:56

human beings need to hear this. They

51:58

need to stop hearing. these hacks

52:02

on this and that. There's no fucking hack, bro. There's

52:05

no fucking hack. Yeah, you made

52:08

this and that and saunas and all

52:10

this shit that they... Yeah, it's great. There

52:14

is no fucking life hack. To

52:16

grow that thing? How do you grow it? Do

52:19

it and do it and

52:21

do it and do it. That's the hack.

52:24

The hack is gonna fucking suck. And

52:27

that's what I realized. That's what I

52:29

realized. That's why I wanted to come

52:31

on here today. I didn't want to come on here

52:33

and talk about no fucking passion and purpose and

52:36

how to get the fuck out of

52:38

bed and how to hit a fucking

52:40

alarm clock and all this catchphrase bullshit.

52:42

Because that wasn't how I lived. It wasn't

52:45

how I lived. I lived, I woke up like

52:47

every human being does and goes, fuck man, I'm

52:50

a fucking piece of shit today. How the hell is this

52:52

gonna work out for me? And you fuck

52:54

off. And you fight that. You

52:56

don't override it. It's no

52:58

override button. It's the conversation in

53:00

your fucking... In your head. So

53:03

how you do that? We don't

53:05

have enough of these conversations about the

53:07

real conversation that every human being is

53:09

having. And they have no idea how to

53:12

get out of it, but they do. It's

53:14

that shit right there, man. You

53:16

gotta build your will. How do

53:18

you build your will? Exactly what you

53:20

said, man. Exactly what you said. I

53:24

feel like knowing the name of something,

53:26

anterior mid-singulate cortex, doesn't fundamentally change us.

53:28

But one thing I like about biology

53:32

is that willpower, if somebody feels

53:34

they don't have it, feels like this

53:36

thing that other people have, but everybody,

53:39

unless they're brain damaged, like

53:41

a hole through their

53:43

head, has two anterior mid-singulate cortex, one

53:45

on each side of their brain. Everyone

53:48

has one. They have two. So

53:51

I feel like it's

53:54

just a question of opening the portal. And the

53:56

portal, what I, again, I was gonna say 10

53:59

times and forgive me as... I think people go oh

54:01

I do hard things I do sets to failure

54:03

and then I do four straps I

54:05

love training with weights I love doing sets

54:07

to failure I even like four straps but

54:09

guess what I like four straps so I'll

54:11

tell you they don't build my anterior mid-singulate

54:14

cortex because I like to do it right

54:16

anything you like to do is not going

54:18

to enhance this aspect of willpower and it

54:20

seems so obvious once you hear it you

54:22

kind of go oh yeah of course but

54:24

I think you

54:27

really close that loop for people

54:29

when you share what

54:31

you're sharing today and what

54:33

you've shared elsewhere before as well when you're

54:35

trying to explain the friction is the critical

54:38

ingredient right and I think people

54:40

think oh if it's effort well then I'm

54:42

getting better that's part of it necessary but

54:44

not sufficient as we say in science but

54:46

the sock part mm-hmm the

54:49

haunt feet being haunted the

54:51

stick they're really unpleasant terms

54:53

very these are probably the most unpleasant terms we've

54:55

ever used on this podcast those are the those

55:00

are the levers those are the gears and

55:02

without those this thing that you're talking about

55:05

David Goggins as

55:07

a verb right you know I

55:09

sometimes make the joke but it's

55:11

not a joke right Goggins is

55:13

a name and it's a verb

55:16

people go I'm gonna Goggins that

55:18

right right but that's I think

55:20

again I'm not a psychologist but I think

55:22

that's what you're talking about the stick the friction

55:25

being haunted it's the sock

55:27

part that grows this anterior

55:29

mid-singulate cortex so now you know

55:32

why there's so many people that fail in

55:34

this world to figure out

55:37

their purpose their

55:39

purpose and life where do I go because

55:42

to grow that

55:44

now you may not look

55:47

like me how my daily life

55:49

looks it don't

55:51

look fun don't

55:53

look fun so

55:57

it's a choice that people have to make in life

56:00

But what's so funny about it is even the richest of

56:02

rich who have everything. They always

56:04

ask me this question. I

56:07

feel like I'm missing something. I

56:11

don't feel like I'm missing shit. I

56:13

don't have what you all have, but

56:16

you're never in my life hear me

56:18

tell you I'm

56:20

missing something. Everybody is. They're

56:23

missing this feeling. I

56:26

found it. A long

56:28

time ago. I found it right

56:30

there in that willpower thing. When

56:33

you're nothing, nothing and

56:36

change yourself into something like

56:39

me. You

56:42

call it happiness, peace, wherever the fuck you want

56:44

to call it. People

56:48

are missing exactly what went on with

56:50

David Goggins. Why don't you smile?

56:52

I do. I do.

56:54

But I figure something out. That's why

56:56

I am never, you never hear me

56:59

say I'm missing something. I

57:01

found it years ago. You find it in

57:04

the suck. You find

57:06

it in the suck and you find it repeatedly

57:09

in the suck to the point where you know

57:11

exactly who you are. Most people are missing

57:13

something because they don't know who they are.

57:17

They never examine themselves. They they've

57:20

never done this experiment on

57:22

themselves. The lab rat. We're

57:24

all lab rats. But you're also

57:26

the scientist. You

57:29

create your own self. Most

57:31

people are missing something because there's so much

57:33

trapped in there. I

57:36

don't even want to say potential. I think that's

57:38

where you use out too much too. There's so

57:40

much in you that God or wherever the hell

57:42

you believe in, or if you're an atheist in

57:44

you that you have not unlocked

57:48

that you walk around with this gorgeous wife or

57:50

great husband and all this money like, God,

57:52

I feel like I'm missing something. Yeah, because it's

57:55

about 75 percent of you is

57:57

still fucking in there. Still

58:01

chained up because you

58:03

just didn't want to find your willpower. Didn't

58:06

want to find your soul, your will, your

58:08

heart, your determination, your guts, your courage. And

58:10

what that looks like, it looks scary. Like your

58:13

little scary lab I went in. Scary.

58:16

To wake up every day and say, I'm stupid,

58:18

but I want to figure out a way

58:20

to be smarter. Versus saying, man, I

58:23

just can't do that. So you limit this box. So

58:26

your box becomes so small of things you

58:28

can do. My box wasn't

58:30

even a box. It

58:32

was a fucking little, like, little pinhole.

58:35

And then through examining myself,

58:38

getting some willpower, some courage, it

58:41

became bigger than this table. But that's what we all do. That's

58:43

why I wanted to come here today and talk to

58:45

you about real shit. Not

58:47

no fucking like hacks. There's no

58:49

hacks, bro. It's you against

58:51

you. You against you. And

58:54

if you misunderstand that, you

58:57

have a real problem. A

58:59

real problem. I can understand you misunderstand me running

59:01

on the street, shirt off, fuck this, no, no.

59:03

I can get it. I get it. If

59:06

you misunderstand the same right now today, the

59:09

problem is you. And

59:11

you don't want to fix it. Well,

59:14

the children of wealthy people are

59:16

a case study in how not

59:19

having enough friction can destroy a

59:21

life. True statement. I mean, I could

59:24

list off prominent names in the press,

59:26

but those are actually the least interesting.

59:28

What's probably more interesting as an example

59:30

is all the ones we don't hear about

59:32

because we never hear about them. Right. They

59:35

just dwindle and wither. Or I

59:37

think there's this big category of people

59:39

I'm realizing as we have this conversation

59:41

today that they're

59:44

not super successful. They're not struggling.

59:49

They're successful enough that they never

59:51

have to – you

59:53

can get to the point where you don't have to impose

59:55

friction. You even said it. Your bank account is in a

59:57

place where you don't really – need

1:00:00

to do all the things you do, probably not even a

1:00:02

small fraction of them. Right. But

1:00:04

you realize the stick and being haunted is

1:00:07

the fuel and the engine. And

1:00:10

you'd be truly crazy to give

1:00:12

that up because you've internalized

1:00:14

all that. But most people, they're

1:00:17

good enough for them. And

1:00:20

so they don't actually want to be

1:00:22

better badly enough in order

1:00:24

to start going rung after

1:00:28

rung. Well, think about when you

1:00:30

build willpower and think about how much I've

1:00:32

built. Now

1:00:34

that you know about this, just, I didn't know about

1:00:36

this, but think about how much I've built. Everything

1:00:39

I've ever done in my life, I didn't want to do everything

1:00:43

every day. I'm a

1:00:45

lazy piece of shit. And

1:00:48

I'm one of the hardest working people that ever stepped

1:00:50

foot on this planet earth. And I'm saying

1:00:52

that very proudly because I know what I do. Not

1:00:55

cocky. I'll tell you I'm stupid. And

1:00:58

I'll also tell you the exact opposite of what I've

1:01:00

done. It's the truth.

1:01:03

It is the truth. So imagine how much

1:01:05

I've developed in that timeframe. But

1:01:08

it's the scary thing. Why

1:01:11

most people don't want to do

1:01:13

that, build that willpower

1:01:15

is because it is scary. It

1:01:18

unlocks a whole bunch of things about who you are,

1:01:20

who you're not. And

1:01:22

a lot of people don't want to go down that

1:01:24

journey to discover who they are, who they're not. Cause

1:01:29

it's not a pretty journey. I mean,

1:01:31

I've gone down it. It's not like I went down it once.

1:01:34

I go down it all the time. And

1:01:37

when you unlock that and you can't just turn it

1:01:39

off. Like people say, Hey, how come you haven't retired

1:01:41

yet? I

1:01:43

built all this willpower. Do

1:01:47

you think it's going to let me

1:01:49

just retire

1:01:51

because my knees hurt? He's

1:01:54

telling me every morning I wake

1:01:56

up like, man, my knees hurt my legs hurt.

1:01:58

My body hurts. But you can still run.

1:02:02

So why aren't you running? If

1:02:04

you can still run, there'll be a time

1:02:06

when you can't lace them up anymore, but you can

1:02:08

still run. So

1:02:11

I still run. When the

1:02:13

time comes I can't run, the body will

1:02:15

say you just can't run. But

1:02:17

if I can still do something that

1:02:20

will power that I have created, it

1:02:22

makes me do it every fucking

1:02:25

day. And that's what

1:02:27

they don't get. What builds a human being

1:02:29

is you start with the small

1:02:31

building blocks. And before you know it, man, you become something

1:02:33

that you, it doesn't even make sense

1:02:35

to most people because it's just who you are now.

1:02:38

That's why I can still run at 50 with broke, with,

1:02:41

at 49, with broke down knees and broke down body. Because

1:02:44

my body knows you still can. Therefore

1:02:46

I do. Second, you stop.

1:02:48

The willpower is gone. And

1:02:51

that's beautiful. I'm so glad you brought that to me

1:02:53

because I always wonder, what's

1:02:55

this separation thing now? At

1:02:58

24 years old, I started building something that I didn't even know was

1:03:01

going to be what it is now at 49. And

1:03:04

that's all it was, was

1:03:06

this that. This

1:03:08

structure anterior mid-singulate cortex has inputs

1:03:10

and outputs from a bunch of

1:03:12

places, but you'll probably

1:03:14

not be surprised to learn that it's

1:03:17

strongly activated when we move our body when

1:03:20

we don't want to move our body. I

1:03:23

feel like it's like the David Goggins structure, right? It

1:03:26

really is. It is. And

1:03:28

it also has strong connections to the

1:03:30

dopamine reward pathway. And everyone goes, yay,

1:03:32

dopamine reward. Everyone loves dopamine. I'm

1:03:34

partially responsible for people

1:03:37

knowing a bit more about dopamine, but

1:03:39

dopamine is badly understood. Everyone

1:03:42

thinks dopamine, dopamine hits. It's about reward. It's

1:03:45

about motivation and drive. And

1:03:47

there are pain inputs to

1:03:50

the dopamine centers of the brain. No one talks about that. Everyone's

1:03:53

like, oh, you want the chocolate, you know, chocolate,

1:03:55

sex, cocaine. Yeah, that's all true. You

1:03:58

release dopamine. Pain releases. dopamine.

1:04:00

The anterior mid-singulate cortex can trigger

1:04:02

the release of dopamine in response

1:04:04

to this thing that we're calling

1:04:06

friction. And that's

1:04:08

a learned thing. That's

1:04:10

something that no animal or human being comes

1:04:12

into the world, learning we all are averse

1:04:15

to pain and like pleasure,

1:04:17

like sugar fat, don't

1:04:19

like hot surfaces. But

1:04:22

this is a structure that learns. It

1:04:25

has neuroplasticity, the ability to change throughout

1:04:28

the entire lifespan. And here's the part

1:04:30

that I think, again, is just neuro

1:04:32

nerd speak for what you already know

1:04:34

and have done and exemplify is

1:04:37

that people say, Oh, as plasticity,

1:04:39

you can change it. But guess what? As

1:04:41

plasticity in both directions, it can grow, but

1:04:43

just as easily as it can grow. It's

1:04:45

like silly putty, it can shrink. Right. So

1:04:49

it requires constant upkeep.

1:04:51

Right. And that answer isn't one that people are

1:04:53

going to like. They're like, give

1:04:55

me the energy drink. Give me the supplement. Give me the,

1:04:58

give me the sauna protocol. That's going to

1:05:00

make my enter mid-singulate cortex. Someone out there

1:05:02

right now is going, wait, if I took

1:05:05

transcranial magnetic stimulation and I stimulate, yeah, you

1:05:07

probably actually they've done that. They stuck a

1:05:09

little wire during neurosurgery into this structure. This

1:05:12

is actually discovered by a colleague of mine, Joe

1:05:15

Parvizi, stimulate.

1:05:17

And the patients go, I feel

1:05:19

like there's a storm coming. And

1:05:21

then they go, Oh, is it scary? And they go, no, I want

1:05:24

to go through it. They come off the

1:05:26

stimulation and people are like, this

1:05:28

is the seat of what

1:05:31

we're talking about. Right. Exactly. And it learns.

1:05:33

So the fact that you've kept this brain

1:05:35

structure, I'm convinced if we

1:05:38

image your brain, it'd be large and it

1:05:40

would be larger in two years, the year.

1:05:44

But this is the no days off rationale,

1:05:47

because it can grow and it can shrink.

1:05:49

I know what you're saying right now. I

1:05:51

didn't know any of this and

1:05:54

I never, and I always talk to you, but I

1:05:56

wish I could just put

1:05:58

this on paper and you're saying it in a

1:06:00

way that people can understand, I can

1:06:03

never put in the words on what I built.

1:06:08

The power that is within all of us, but

1:06:11

you put it in a

1:06:13

scientific way. Most people, for me, he's just crazy.

1:06:17

That's why I don't like talking about it, man. I know

1:06:20

I'm not crazy. I know what I had

1:06:22

to do to get where I had to go. People

1:06:24

look at us crazy because they're people that just...

1:06:28

If you can't imagine yourself doing something, if

1:06:31

you can't imagine yourself doing something, the person

1:06:33

that's doing it is crazy. Because

1:06:37

in your mind, the logic

1:06:39

behind it, it doesn't compute.

1:06:42

Therefore, you have to give somebody a title. And

1:06:45

a title for me is usually, he's crazy,

1:06:47

he's this, he's that. No, no. For

1:06:51

some reason, me wanting to be somebody

1:06:53

so fucking bad in my life. I

1:06:57

created that and I've been trying to figure

1:06:59

out years of my life trying

1:07:01

to explain to people, but even though you're explaining it

1:07:03

now, this

1:07:07

is the easy fucking part. Them

1:07:10

listening to this shit is the easy

1:07:12

fucking part. The part that

1:07:14

why there'll always be the ones of

1:07:17

ones is because

1:07:19

putting that practice, putting

1:07:22

that into actual work. No,

1:07:25

man. No,

1:07:27

that's where the demons come in. That's

1:07:30

where you're like, I

1:07:32

don't want to be better. I don't want to be

1:07:34

better. This is what it takes to be better. I don't want to be better. So

1:07:37

everybody's... That's why there's a lot

1:07:39

of average and it makes me

1:07:42

so fucking mad. Every

1:07:44

day I walk this earth and I see

1:07:46

average all over the fucking place and they

1:07:48

want to ask me, how did you

1:07:50

do it? I can't tell you

1:07:52

how, because you're not going to fucking... You're not going to do it. You're

1:07:55

not going to do it. You're going

1:07:57

to continue being out because every day you wake up... It's

1:08:00

not like get the coffee, make

1:08:03

the pancakes, kiss

1:08:06

the girl, kiss the kids. You

1:08:08

wake up, right to work. Immediately

1:08:11

your mind is in action. No

1:08:13

one wants to do that. No one. And

1:08:16

I don't blame them. But don't

1:08:18

be mad when you're laying there in

1:08:20

your fucking bed and you're in the fucking hospital and

1:08:23

you're 70, 80, 90 years old and you're thinking, man,

1:08:26

I feel like I didn't fucking do something. Because

1:08:29

you did. You didn't do it.

1:08:32

You didn't do shit. You

1:08:34

may have lived a great life, man, but you're always gonna feel

1:08:36

empty inside. I don't feel empty. So call

1:08:38

me what you want. There's not

1:08:40

one empty bone in my fucking

1:08:43

body because I have

1:08:45

figured out that really

1:08:48

the magic potion that leads to my life. And

1:08:50

it's very rewarding. I'd

1:08:53

like to take a quick break and thank our

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1:08:57

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1:09:06

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1:09:52

Again, that's insidetracker.com/Huberman. People

1:09:55

like to talk about what they used to be

1:09:57

able to do. I hear this a lot.

1:10:00

You should have seen me in high school. I always laugh.

1:10:02

Yup. Yeah. Okay.

1:10:05

Got it. And it's not just guys. I

1:10:08

was super fit. People will look back to

1:10:10

a time where they felt like they were

1:10:13

capable of something and now they're not. And

1:10:16

you kind of want to just grab me and go, wait, that

1:10:18

was you then. It's you now. But

1:10:20

people tend to think about how the conditions

1:10:23

that were around success must

1:10:26

have been part of it. And you

1:10:28

can understand why. It's very rational. I

1:10:30

was in that situation. I was successful. I'm in

1:10:33

this situation. I'm not. That was the

1:10:35

past. This is the present. Ergo.

1:10:38

Capable. Right. You

1:10:40

see how people get into these loops. And as you mentioned,

1:10:42

you spend the first 20 years of your life in extremely

1:10:45

challenged circumstances. And

1:10:47

then you can see how people get to a point where

1:10:49

like everything feels hard. Like

1:10:52

when you're 300 pounds, I haven't never been

1:10:54

300 pounds, but

1:10:57

I can't imagine it feels good to get up

1:10:59

and move around. It's defeating. I got a friend.

1:11:02

He's in excess of 300 pounds. We've

1:11:04

been trying on him for years, but no,

1:11:07

no win. And he's got crazy psoriasis

1:11:09

on the back of his calves. And

1:11:11

he actually smells bad sometimes because he,

1:11:14

he can't wash as well as he would.

1:11:16

He's big, big. Right. And,

1:11:18

uh, it pulls all my sympathy, you

1:11:20

know, but life is very hard for him and

1:11:22

getting worse. He's a young guy with a lot of

1:11:24

medical issues now for obvious reasons. And

1:11:27

so I think people like that think, well, it's already

1:11:29

hard. Why would

1:11:31

I make it harder? Your

1:11:34

message is a little different and you

1:11:37

have the life experience. It's a lot different. You've

1:11:39

been there. So for me saying,

1:11:42

Oh yeah, lose weight. You know,

1:11:44

I was a skinny guy who got to be a less

1:11:46

skinny guy. So I

1:11:48

don't really have a foot to stand

1:11:50

on. What

1:11:53

do you say to those people who

1:11:55

are like, listen, I'm getting up in

1:11:57

the air. I'm trying to not dissolve into

1:11:59

a. puddle of my own tears and my own misery

1:12:02

is hard. You

1:12:04

know how people connect with my book so

1:12:06

well? For some reason, God put me in almost

1:12:08

every fucked up situation on the planet earth. So

1:12:12

when I talk to people, it's not

1:12:14

sugar coated because I'm not saying it from,

1:12:16

I'm always the current saying

1:12:18

five pounds my whole life. I

1:12:21

don't say much to those people. Maybe

1:12:25

you're a piece of shit. Maybe

1:12:27

you want to be nobody. Maybe

1:12:30

you're happy exactly where you are in life because obviously

1:12:32

you are. Maybe you don't have

1:12:34

the determination to be somebody better than who you are. And

1:12:38

if you want to live with that, I'll

1:12:41

support you in that. If you're

1:12:43

good with being who you are, that

1:12:45

every day you wake up and every day you smell

1:12:47

like shit because you can't wash your body well. And

1:12:50

your skin's messed up because your health's so bad. And

1:12:53

you can't put your clothes on, right? You need help with that. I

1:12:56

need help wiping my ass. That

1:12:59

makes you feel good. Nothing

1:13:02

to say to you. If

1:13:04

every day you wake up with this, see people are haunted.

1:13:08

But they obviously like horror films because

1:13:11

they keep watching the same fucking movie. I don't like horror

1:13:13

films. A lot of people like horror

1:13:15

films. So I don't say much to them. I

1:13:18

say exactly what I said to you right

1:13:20

there because I was once you. I

1:13:24

didn't like horror films so I changed it. Some

1:13:27

people are just, they

1:13:29

become, like you said, it gets real small

1:13:31

when you're lazy and you're fat. Your

1:13:34

will, your

1:13:36

will is so small that they don't

1:13:38

have any and you can't give it to them. There

1:13:41

has to be something. This is what I'm

1:13:43

talking about now because this

1:13:45

isn't a hack. This

1:13:47

has to be in you. Something

1:13:50

in you has to wake up.

1:13:53

And usually the only person that can wake it up is

1:13:55

you. Sometimes you can

1:13:57

read a David Goggins book because I was all this

1:13:59

shit. and then a lot more fucked up. But

1:14:03

if you don't have a little flame,

1:14:05

you know, just barely,

1:14:08

you're done. I can't

1:14:11

lie it for you. And

1:14:13

that's the harsh reality of this life that

1:14:16

I wanna get across so fucking bad. You

1:14:19

can watch me, you can watch you, you

1:14:21

can watch fucking Rogan and Cameron Haynes, all

1:14:23

these motherfuckers. You can go to Tony Robbins'

1:14:25

fucking bullshit. All this shit, do all

1:14:27

this shit. If

1:14:29

you, you could keep going back and

1:14:32

keep spending money and spending money and

1:14:34

spending money with no results. You're

1:14:36

gonna wonder, wow, maybe then they go try out

1:14:38

David Goggins. He ain't gonna fucking

1:14:40

help you. You

1:14:43

have to explore, examine

1:14:45

the insides of yourself. And

1:14:48

what do you really want out of life? Your

1:14:50

friend and a lot of people out here just

1:14:52

don't fucking want it. So guess what?

1:14:56

Have fun with your life. Go

1:14:59

from three to 350 to 400 to 450 to 500 because

1:15:04

you don't want it. And

1:15:07

that's the harsh reality. I can't

1:15:10

give you shit. You can't

1:15:12

give them shit. I can give you ideas. But

1:15:14

in the day, when I was losing the weight, I

1:15:18

had to miserably wake up every

1:15:21

morning in the cold because it was Indiana,

1:15:23

November when it started. I

1:15:26

was miserable. This

1:15:29

is your new life. Take

1:15:32

her to leave it. There's no happiness

1:15:34

about it. There's no peace behind it.

1:15:38

It sucks. It just fucking

1:15:40

sucks. And that's

1:15:42

the one thing if I could teach anybody anything,

1:15:46

it just fucking sucks. And

1:15:49

it's gonna continue to suck. And

1:15:51

then when did you get to a special part in

1:15:53

your life? That it might get a

1:15:55

little bit better. But to lose,

1:15:58

you have to lose, my friend. Sorry,

1:16:02

it's gonna suck every fucking day. Cause

1:16:04

then when you're 300 pounds, you're gonna go

1:16:06

out to lose weight, you're probably get injured.

1:16:09

So then you gotta work on the injury and then you get even

1:16:11

more depressed. This is what I went through. And

1:16:14

then you're hungry, now you're

1:16:16

depressed. It's just a vicious cycle. And

1:16:19

if you're not strong mentally and

1:16:21

you have no willpower, you're

1:16:23

gonna continue falling back in this hole versus the

1:16:25

man that sits back and goes, all right, motherfucker,

1:16:28

this is why I cussed. This is what

1:16:31

is in me. This is what it took for me to be,

1:16:33

sorry. It

1:16:35

didn't take, hey, okay, we're gonna do this

1:16:37

today. No, this fucking really sucks. This

1:16:40

is real, dude. This is real.

1:16:43

And every day I'm a

1:16:45

setback, I'm a setback, I'm a setback, I'm a setback.

1:16:47

So this is what I would tell your boy. This

1:16:50

is exactly what I tell him. Every day you

1:16:52

wake up, you're gonna probably be set back for

1:16:55

the first four weeks before you lose to significant

1:16:57

weight because the mind's gonna be fucking

1:16:59

with you the whole time. There's no

1:17:01

dopamine. There's

1:17:03

no dopamine in there at 300 and

1:17:25

you have to create a false

1:17:28

reality to live in

1:17:30

that just to get to

1:17:32

work on yourself. That's

1:17:35

the reality. He'll

1:17:37

see this and he'll appreciate that message. We'll see what he

1:17:39

does. We'll see. So far, last

1:17:41

13 years, it's been no

1:17:44

movement. But I've had other

1:17:46

friends who were

1:17:49

drug and alcohol addicts who quit

1:17:51

after one conversation, never went back.

1:17:53

That's awesome. They want

1:17:55

it. Yeah, just one guy, I won't out him,

1:17:57

but walked up to me at a party in

1:17:59

20. 2019 July 4th

1:18:01

party and said I'm a pile

1:18:04

and I go what he goes I'm a pile look at me I'm

1:18:06

60 pounds overweight. I go do you drink? He goes every day. I

1:18:08

go how much he goes a case? He

1:18:11

goes I smoke a lot of weed, but he's

1:18:13

successful in other areas of his life And so

1:18:16

I said well, here's what I know quit

1:18:19

alcohol and weed for you. You know, I'm not telling people what to

1:18:21

do Don't eat until 2

1:18:23

p.m Get

1:18:25

on the exercise bike and

1:18:27

pedal in the morning Like

1:18:29

someone's chasing you with a poison dart Till

1:18:32

you want to puke and I was kind

1:18:34

of half joking right and then Two

1:18:37

months later he's like I haven't

1:18:39

had a drink. I lost 30 pounds. He lost that 60

1:18:41

pounds. He never went back now He's he's super fit It's

1:18:45

amazing. Let's so some people flip the switch He

1:18:48

is very self-critical by

1:18:50

nature. That's what he's super

1:18:52

self-critical. Yep. That's what flips the switch

1:18:55

Yeah, think about it, man We

1:18:57

know what to do We

1:18:59

don't need Angie Huberman to tell us

1:19:01

what to do. We know what to do every

1:19:04

one of us That's why

1:19:06

he flipped it so fast Because

1:19:08

he knew what to do He

1:19:10

didn't go by your exact protocol He

1:19:13

didn't go by the exact. No, he

1:19:16

knew exactly what to do and

1:19:20

You just saying some shit to him It

1:19:23

woke something up be knew what to do and that's

1:19:26

the thing that people need to get that

1:19:29

You know what to do. Why aren't you doing it? And

1:19:32

I'm talking about myself now, you know

1:19:34

those modes of just kind of

1:19:36

passive consumption They're so easy to wash

1:19:38

over us I used to have

1:19:40

this thing and I'm fighting this now because I knew we

1:19:42

were gonna have this conversation today where I like To start

1:19:44

things on the hour of the half hour right worst practice

1:19:48

in the world For

1:19:50

me because if I miss that half

1:19:52

hour, I'm like 1233 I'll

1:19:55

start at 1245, right? That's 1245 I'll

1:20:00

start at one. I just lost time.

1:20:04

So this is so stupid. And

1:20:06

the other day I was like, I got to tell David about

1:20:08

this because my new thing is I start no

1:20:11

matter what time it is. If

1:20:13

I wake up in the middle of the night, I got a friend he paints in the middle of

1:20:15

the night. I'm like, you're an insomniac? He's like,

1:20:17

I don't know. I just do it. Then

1:20:19

sometimes he goes back to sleep. Sometimes he doesn't. Everyone's

1:20:21

got their thing, but I thought about this. I'm like,

1:20:23

I'm no more. Am I going to say I'm starting

1:20:25

at one? Because I know me. If I miss the

1:20:28

one o'clock ding and my pen's not hitting the paper,

1:20:30

I'm not typing it on the keyboard, I'm not going

1:20:32

to do it. That's

1:20:34

a self admitted weakness. I love it,

1:20:36

man. I had that for a

1:20:38

lot of years. I

1:20:41

know I'm going to do it. That's

1:20:43

the haunting part is

1:20:45

that it's going

1:20:47

to happen. It has

1:20:49

to happen. And that's

1:20:51

the fact. There's

1:20:54

no get out of jail free card, bro. None.

1:20:57

That is a life that I don't know. I

1:21:00

don't have that ability

1:21:03

or I have the ability. I don't have

1:21:05

the... I'm

1:21:08

not good enough, smart enough.

1:21:11

I'm not talented enough to

1:21:14

do that. Some

1:21:16

people are. Some people can

1:21:18

start at one. Some people don't have to start at all. If

1:21:22

you lack talent, you can't sit back

1:21:24

and say, I'm starting

1:21:27

half an hour. I

1:21:30

can't do that. I got to start now. And

1:21:33

then after I get back from starting, I got to start again. And

1:21:36

then when I get done with that run or that study session, if

1:21:38

it wasn't good enough, I got to go back again. Because

1:21:41

repetition is what taught me

1:21:44

everything. So you can

1:21:46

honestly outwork anything. But

1:21:50

you obviously are a very talented man.

1:21:53

Well, I have worked hard at certain

1:21:55

things and built up some things

1:21:58

that I've been good at most of my life.

1:22:01

my life. You're me. Gathering, organizing and disseminating information,

1:22:03

something I've been doing since I was a little

1:22:05

kid. I used to give lectures at school on

1:22:07

Monday about stuff I learned over the weekend. See,

1:22:09

check that out. But they took me to a

1:22:12

psychiatrist. We're the same age. Back then, if you

1:22:14

got sent to a psychiatrist, people thought you were

1:22:16

crazy. I wasn't one. Yeah, exactly. So I remember

1:22:18

feeling like a freak. I also, I didn't have

1:22:20

a stutter, but I had a grunting tick. It

1:22:23

comes back when I'm tired. And the only thing

1:22:25

that helped that was hitting

1:22:27

my head on something, shaking

1:22:30

my head, which is why skateboarding was good because

1:22:32

I'd slam and I'd feel like, oh, I feel

1:22:34

good. That's not healthy. You know,

1:22:37

that's not good. Or just work. Work

1:22:39

is what gets it out. It's like

1:22:41

an, it's like a RPM or high.

1:22:43

You know, anyway, that's me. But

1:22:46

yeah, I think certain things over time, I feel

1:22:48

like talented gifts or whatever you want to call

1:22:50

them. But there are many things that are exceedingly

1:22:52

difficult for me. And I, and

1:22:54

I have learned from your example, I know

1:22:56

that you are very, both humble and very

1:22:58

clear that like, you don't have, you

1:23:01

say, I don't, you're not going to get it

1:23:03

by examining you. But I think the way you're

1:23:05

sharing today, and the way you shared on other

1:23:08

podcasts before, there are

1:23:10

pieces that really help people

1:23:12

feel into the process

1:23:14

of what you're talking about today, we're elaborating

1:23:16

on it, I think a lot, you know,

1:23:18

this notion of being haunted in the stick.

1:23:21

Right. I mean, of course, of course. Now

1:23:23

it makes so much sense why you

1:23:25

don't want to talk about sleep, arrest or

1:23:27

recovery. Because that's, sure, that's important.

1:23:30

I've heard you say, yes, you sleep. Yes,

1:23:32

you eat. Yes, you hydrate. Yes, you, you

1:23:34

will stretch your so as or whatever. But

1:23:36

it's funny how that becomes the viral message.

1:23:38

That's why I said, fuck that today. But

1:23:40

that's not the unique, that's not the unique

1:23:42

message that you carry. Like

1:23:44

anyone can talk about that. So

1:23:47

do I have that right that you're acknowledging sleep

1:23:49

is important, recovery is important. But that's not what

1:23:51

you're about. You have to forego

1:23:54

something. Yes. Ice baths,

1:23:57

saunas, sleep, nutrition. And

1:24:00

all this shit's so fucking important, dude. I

1:24:03

don't have time for some of it. To

1:24:06

get to extract or how to extract something

1:24:09

had to give. Like you talk about you

1:24:11

when you were younger, you would give

1:24:13

these speeches and stuff. The

1:24:15

same age you were giving speeches, I was trying to

1:24:18

figure out how to say the without stuttering. And

1:24:21

I realized as I got older that all

1:24:24

these things are important. But

1:24:27

for me to stop stuttering, I got to

1:24:29

build fucking confidence. And

1:24:33

speech therapy didn't help that, nothing

1:24:35

helped that. I have to

1:24:37

forego a lot of shit to

1:24:39

be as fucked up as I am to build

1:24:41

confidence. For me to

1:24:43

stand in the fucking room of 10,000 of one

1:24:46

person and not be like,

1:24:48

oh, put my head down. Let me look around. Let

1:24:52

me read these paragraphs

1:24:54

first. And then before I read the paragraphs, cause they're

1:24:56

calling me next, let me just leave the room, come with

1:24:58

stutter. That's a

1:25:00

miserable life. And

1:25:02

that's one of many things I

1:25:04

did besides lying, besides being insecure,

1:25:06

besides being immature, besides being fat,

1:25:10

besides being one of the only black kids in my school.

1:25:12

There's a lot of things I had to overcome to

1:25:15

gain confidence. And

1:25:17

in doing so, a lot

1:25:19

of that had to go, a lot of

1:25:21

it. So I became the guy that became once again

1:25:23

misunderstood. You only sleep four hours a

1:25:25

day, two hours a day. Sometimes you don't sleep at

1:25:28

all. Like, what's this and what's this and

1:25:30

what's this? I know it's all important. I

1:25:35

can't, something's gotta go. For me

1:25:37

to get confidence, cause confidence is the

1:25:39

building block of where I'm trying to go, for

1:25:42

me to gain confidence in myself, this

1:25:44

fucked up kid has got to do a lot of fucked

1:25:46

up shit to gain confidence. And

1:25:49

along the way, the stutter went away and

1:25:51

I gained confidence. And

1:25:53

now my life is a little bit more, there

1:25:57

is no balance, there

1:25:59

is no balance. It's a

1:26:01

little bit more what it should

1:26:03

be for a lot of

1:26:06

people, but there'll never be balance because

1:26:08

confidence is something that you're constantly...confidence and

1:26:10

belief, you're

1:26:12

building every day. And so something's got

1:26:14

to give. And I'm

1:26:16

willing to forgo a lot of things to have that

1:26:18

because I know that is...that is...if you

1:26:21

want to give somebody kryptonite, take

1:26:23

that shit away from them. So

1:26:26

yeah, I don't sleep sometimes and sometimes I don't

1:26:28

eat the right way. Because I don't do this

1:26:30

and do that and whatever, man. But you put

1:26:32

me in a room with 10,000 people anytime of

1:26:34

the day and I walk in there

1:26:36

thinking I'm the best motherfucker in here because

1:26:38

I know what it took to be on this stage. A

1:26:40

lot of people will not do that. So

1:26:43

that's what it takes. There's

1:26:46

a question I've been wanting to ask you since we

1:26:48

started and I thought about coming in

1:26:50

here and I was thinking about in the weeks ahead of

1:26:52

this and I'm going to just come clean and say, I

1:26:54

don't exactly know how to ask the question. So

1:26:58

it's about relationships. Oh, do it, man.

1:27:01

So I

1:27:03

know in myself that

1:27:06

my discipline is much higher when it's

1:27:08

just me. But that's because I had

1:27:12

certain things early on but then I was a terrible student,

1:27:14

barely finished high school. But then when I got serious, I

1:27:16

got serious but I did that by staying

1:27:19

away from everybody. And

1:27:21

anyone who's ever had a relationship of

1:27:24

any kind, but in

1:27:26

particular romantic relationships, knows that yes, you

1:27:28

can derive tremendous support from those. Like

1:27:31

you got this baby, you can go in and you're like, yeah, I

1:27:33

got this. She said I got this. It

1:27:36

feels great to finish something and share with someone. Share

1:27:38

a meal, get the hug. But

1:27:41

there's another side to all of that that

1:27:43

I'd like to learn more about from you, which

1:27:45

is there's a warm body next to you in

1:27:49

bed in the morning. You don't want to get up. They

1:27:51

also have needs. You've

1:27:53

got your mission that people

1:27:55

sometimes need things from us, but also

1:27:58

all of that. Oftentimes

1:28:00

the people that love us most, that truly love us

1:28:02

and that want to support us, don't

1:28:05

understand this thing. They're

1:28:09

the first people to tell us, like, listen,

1:28:12

take a day off. Then this whole

1:28:14

cycle, at least in my head goes off, like you

1:28:16

just want a vacation. It's almost like

1:28:18

a paranoia. I'm not saying anything nice

1:28:20

about myself right now. Oh, good man. Former

1:28:23

girlfriends are going to be like, yeah. They

1:28:25

remember. Support

1:28:27

of people close to you is critical. This

1:28:29

could be friends, could be romantic partners, whatever. But

1:28:32

they're also the knife

1:28:34

cuts both ways. It can be the thing that

1:28:36

can really undermine this thing that you're talking about.

1:28:39

Because the people that care about us also want to

1:28:41

see us comfortable. They want to see us happy. They

1:28:43

want to see us peaceful. They want to see us

1:28:45

wake up from a great night's sleep. And they want

1:28:48

things too. So how

1:28:50

do you untangle that whole bit?

1:28:52

Well, it's funny, man. I'm unbalanced, but

1:28:54

I'm mostly unbalanced towards the family side.

1:28:57

So you don't get about me. I start being

1:28:59

unbalanced. I get all my stuff in. But

1:29:01

what I do is I make sure that my family has

1:29:03

everything they need. Everything

1:29:06

they need. Those

1:29:08

who want to be part of my family. Some

1:29:11

don't. Some family members don't want to be part of

1:29:13

David Gockens. I get it. I got it.

1:29:15

That's life. Those who are part

1:29:18

of my family, I

1:29:20

give them everything they need so they

1:29:22

can leave me the fuck alone. I

1:29:25

make sure you're happy as fuck because I got to go to work.

1:29:28

And I don't mean smoke jumping.

1:29:31

I don't mean running. I mean all

1:29:33

of it. It takes

1:29:35

every... I can't have you in my fucking

1:29:37

shit. Can't. So

1:29:40

I know for me to have a family, I

1:29:42

got to make sure that you realize I'm going to give you everything you

1:29:44

need so we start bitching at me. I'm going to say, look, hang

1:29:47

on. I

1:29:49

dedicated my life to give you everything you need.

1:29:51

I need this time right here. For

1:29:54

me to be the best I can be because this

1:29:56

journey started without anybody. And

1:29:58

I make sure everybody knows that. my life. I've

1:30:01

been left, think about it, I

1:30:04

was left alone as long at a

1:30:06

young age to figure this shit out.

1:30:10

I figured it out for myself.

1:30:12

It has been very successful for myself. No

1:30:15

one's going to come in here and fuck with my shit. That's

1:30:18

why I make sure I will take care of whatever you need,

1:30:20

whatever you need from me, you got it. Money,

1:30:22

house, my love, my support, I'm going to

1:30:25

give you everything you need. That

1:30:27

said, I do it the

1:30:30

highest level possible. I'm saying

1:30:32

it with Jennifer in the next room, so please come in

1:30:34

and say something if it's wrong, Jennifer, I don't give a

1:30:36

fuck. Say what you got to say. Then when it's time

1:30:38

for me to go to work, I

1:30:41

expect you to do the same for me because

1:30:44

it takes every bit of me to

1:30:46

do what I have to do. I

1:30:49

make sure that I'm very unbalanced for my family so

1:30:52

I can be exactly that unbalanced

1:30:54

for myself and

1:30:56

that's how I do it. I let people

1:30:59

know right up front, I'm

1:31:01

not what you want

1:31:05

in a man. I guarantee that.

1:31:07

It's going to be a lot of late nights, a lot

1:31:10

of early mornings, a lot of times where I got to be by

1:31:12

myself thinking about the process that

1:31:14

is next in my mind. I

1:31:17

can't have aggravation, I can't have this, I can't have that. There's a lot of

1:31:19

things, but I let them know up front. I'm

1:31:22

very vocal about that. Sometimes

1:31:24

relationships work for me, sometimes they didn't,

1:31:27

but that's who I am. One thing I did wrong in

1:31:29

my life was I tried for so

1:31:31

many years to please people and

1:31:35

I did it at the expense of

1:31:38

myself. I

1:31:40

was leaving a lot in the tank and

1:31:43

when you do that you stop living. But

1:31:46

the person in your life is happy as fuck

1:31:49

because you're giving everything they want.

1:31:51

Their life is full but

1:31:54

you feel empty and that's

1:31:56

not a relationship to me. So

1:31:58

for me it's important. that you

1:32:00

know exactly who I am because this

1:32:03

is what life made. And

1:32:05

I'm not trying to change it because

1:32:08

I just figured it out. So

1:32:10

I'm not trying to compromise

1:32:12

David Goggins. I would never,

1:32:16

ever compromise David Goggins. That doesn't mean I won't

1:32:18

give you what you need and what you want

1:32:20

and what you do here. But

1:32:22

I don't need money. I don't need fame. I

1:32:24

don't need shit. So I give it all

1:32:27

away. What I

1:32:29

do need is to make sure that

1:32:31

that willpower is worked

1:32:33

on every fucking day and every night for

1:32:35

the rest of my life. Because that's the

1:32:37

one thing that could keep me feeding

1:32:40

you, keeping you where you need to

1:32:42

be. Because once that willpower

1:32:44

is gone, 300-pound David Goggins, he may

1:32:46

not look like it, but I

1:32:48

will walk around with it. So

1:32:51

the things that are important to you in life, you

1:32:53

must do always or

1:32:56

you're nobody. And that's how

1:32:58

I handle relationships. Amen

1:33:00

to that. Something I could personally

1:33:03

work on is that upfront, clear

1:33:05

communication. Because it resonates

1:33:07

that feeling of like there's something inside that's

1:33:09

not getting worked out that when

1:33:12

I'm on my own, it's a lot

1:33:14

easier. But then of course wanting relationships

1:33:16

and family. I think that's a healthy part of being

1:33:18

human too. Obviously you've worked it out.

1:33:20

So I appreciate you sharing that. I don't think

1:33:22

I've ever heard you talk about it that way

1:33:25

before. Man, people are scared of that conversation with

1:33:27

their wife, husband, girlfriend,

1:33:29

boyfriend. But why are you scared

1:33:31

of it? Why

1:33:33

are you scared to tell a motherfucker, your

1:33:36

wife, your husband, who

1:33:38

you are? Who

1:33:40

you are, exactly who you are. And

1:33:42

that was the problem I had. That's the problem that a lot of

1:33:44

us have in life. No one knows

1:33:47

who you really are. No

1:33:49

one knew who I really was. I

1:33:52

went to a school where there were a lot of black kids. A

1:33:55

lot of black kids don't want to be in special ops. I

1:33:58

never talked about special ops to black kids. kids. Why?

1:34:03

I was wondering what I'm

1:34:05

not going to fit in. That's

1:34:07

not what they do. A lot of black kids don't

1:34:09

do that kind of shit. So whatever

1:34:11

I wanted to do, no one really knew the real

1:34:13

me growing up because I never

1:34:15

wanted anybody to know the real me. I was

1:34:18

always afraid of what you might say or how you're going

1:34:20

to feel or whatever. You got

1:34:22

feelings. You

1:34:24

have a life that you have to live. So

1:34:27

it's important that whatever's on your mind, you

1:34:30

let that person know. Therefore, you're giving them the option

1:34:32

to be with you or not. This

1:34:34

is who I am. If you don't like it,

1:34:37

that's good, man. I got it. But this

1:34:39

is David Goggins. So that

1:34:41

honest conversation is very important, man. So everybody

1:34:43

knows where they stand. That

1:34:46

person may not be for you. That's

1:34:48

all good. This world

1:34:50

could use a lot more of that

1:34:53

upfront, completely honest conversation. I feel like

1:34:55

so much of the world's problems are

1:34:57

because everyone's dancing around the issues recently

1:35:00

in the news, seeing people losing their job because they

1:35:02

won't say something publicly. You can tell they kind of

1:35:04

want it. People just, I think deep

1:35:06

down really crave the direct message like, what are

1:35:09

you about? What are you not about? But I

1:35:11

think now everyone's afraid of

1:35:13

getting canceled. It's a big

1:35:15

deal, right? Getting canceled. People think, oh,

1:35:17

I can't work if I am who

1:35:19

I am or if I'm

1:35:21

not pretending to be somebody else,

1:35:23

then silence is considered

1:35:27

agreement. There's all sorts of

1:35:30

complicated stuff. I do

1:35:32

feel for the generation coming up because we didn't

1:35:34

have social media and all of that. Again,

1:35:36

just walled off from that. There's a real

1:35:39

benefit from just not paying attention. People love

1:35:41

to lie. People love to

1:35:43

lie. I thought I was the only

1:35:45

person growing up. I was the only person

1:35:47

that lied because I lived in the bubble and

1:35:50

people love to lie about who they're

1:35:53

not. They love to lie about who

1:35:55

they're not, dude. That's for

1:35:57

me, the reason why I'm so vulnerable.

1:36:01

And I'm so real and honest, find

1:36:05

somebody to come out and tell me online about my fucking

1:36:07

life. And for me to come

1:36:09

where I came from and how the rest

1:36:11

of me I have now, you know the confidence you get?

1:36:14

How, I don't care who, you

1:36:17

gotta judge me? You're gonna judge

1:36:19

me? What have you done in your life? So me

1:36:21

being so honest and so upfront

1:36:23

and so truthful, that

1:36:26

came with me finally

1:36:28

figuring out who I was,

1:36:31

but also conquering David Goggins,

1:36:33

the demons of David Goggins. Therefore

1:36:36

now you're just an open book. You

1:36:38

look at somebody looking around the eye, tell them exactly who the fuck you are.

1:36:41

You walk away. I'm good bro,

1:36:43

I know exactly what this journey

1:36:45

took to get here. And that gives

1:36:47

you a fire and a passion that people can

1:36:49

call you nigger, they can call you if you're

1:36:51

a lesbian or gay or bisexual. How do you

1:36:53

get the fuck you want? If

1:36:56

you put yourself in the fire

1:36:58

and you come out every fucking day like this,

1:37:00

fresh it off, not scared to go back in

1:37:02

there again, come on man. Your

1:37:05

truth is real. You come out

1:37:07

every day man with a way of talking to

1:37:09

people that people don't have. Cause there's

1:37:11

no truth behind them. And

1:37:13

the truth is the starting line. When you sit in an

1:37:15

ugly mirror and say I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, I'm this, you

1:37:18

finally started your life. Maybe 40

1:37:20

years old. Maybe

1:37:22

40 years old, five, six kids, wife. The second

1:37:25

you look in that mirror and

1:37:27

you say, I'm this, I'm this,

1:37:29

I'm this, I'm this. Well

1:37:31

basically I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not

1:37:33

this. I can't do this. I can't do this.

1:37:35

I'm all these insecurities. Your

1:37:37

life finally started. And once

1:37:40

you start that life, man, the truth comes out big time.

1:37:42

Cause you don't care. So

1:37:44

that's the problem. Most people just don't

1:37:46

want to have that conversation to the

1:37:48

point where they can go on stage

1:37:51

with a million people and say, I'm

1:37:53

all this. Have

1:37:55

a good day. See you. It's

1:37:58

empowering. It's very. I feel

1:38:01

like the way we're educated in

1:38:03

school, but also outside of school is we're

1:38:06

trained as human beings, these young brains to

1:38:08

try and figure out how to get positive

1:38:10

feedback from other people. Yep. It's

1:38:12

like we're like little dogs. Yep. You

1:38:15

have a bulldog. That's right. I

1:38:17

had a bulldog. Saw the picture of your bulldog. She's great. Charlie

1:38:20

dog. They're an amazing species. They are.

1:38:23

I think of them economy of effort. Yep.

1:38:26

Or amazing breed, excuse me. They're an amazing breed economy of

1:38:28

effort. They don't do anything unless it's

1:38:30

necessary. It's kind of the exact opposite of

1:38:32

everything we're talking about. It's kind of interesting

1:38:34

and they're kind of hedonist. Now,

1:38:36

it is true that they will die to

1:38:39

protect you. Oh yeah. And

1:38:41

it's an instinct. I saw that with Costello. I'm

1:38:43

sure that. I saw it with Charlie. Yeah. It's

1:38:46

an instinct, but if they're not in that position, if there's

1:38:49

no need to exert effort. They're resting. Yeah.

1:38:52

So your bulldog is resting for you. Yes. Got

1:38:54

it. Exactly. So

1:38:57

you don't need to rest because... That's probably. Perfect. That's

1:38:59

going to be your answer from now on. That's going

1:39:01

to be very Charlie. Does he rest? No,

1:39:03

he somehow worked it out so his bulldog does it for him. Right.

1:39:07

But we're sort of indoctrinated into this

1:39:09

way of being from a time that we're

1:39:11

young, where of course praise

1:39:14

feels good, right? Someone tells you, hey, I like

1:39:16

that shirt or good

1:39:18

job today or nicely done. For

1:39:20

me, because I like growing up in a big

1:39:22

pack of friends growing up and I

1:39:25

was never the great staff. It wasn't terrible. It

1:39:27

was great, et cetera, like a fist bump or

1:39:29

like a feeling crude up. And

1:39:31

you're just like, yeah. But you've talked about

1:39:33

this before in reference to the SEAL teams. We both know

1:39:35

a lot of people in that community and the teams component

1:39:37

is a big part of it for a lot of people.

1:39:41

And it's a wonderful thing. Right.

1:39:43

But there's a danger to that dopamine

1:39:47

hit, for lack of a better way to put

1:39:49

it, from what we only

1:39:52

derive when it's coming from outside.

1:39:55

You're talking about being able to either

1:39:58

say good job, but also... Like just

1:40:01

look to one's own personal history and say

1:40:03

I've done hard things and I can do

1:40:05

it again and again Because I do it

1:40:07

again and again and again. You're talking about

1:40:10

Parenting yourself. Yep Inspiring

1:40:13

yourself. Yep Scaring

1:40:16

yourself all of that from the inside. Yes,

1:40:18

so very different than the way we're raised

1:40:20

Which is to figure out how to get

1:40:22

the biscuit. It's funny man.

1:40:24

People want to know how I'm always motivated It's The

1:40:29

unseen work when she just says a true

1:40:31

statement those are false dopamine hits

1:40:33

that people are giving you man There's

1:40:37

no belief in that These are

1:40:39

team work Dopamine like

1:40:41

I'm not running at two o'clock in the

1:40:43

morning when I'm talking in the morning in

1:40:45

the gym long sessions by myself You

1:40:49

that's real how many

1:40:51

would it just extract dopamine the good

1:40:53

dopamine whenever I want man

1:40:57

I've trained 99% of my life alone No

1:41:01

one pat me on the back. I did

1:41:04

all of the work alone and While

1:41:08

I'm still hard on myself. I

1:41:10

know what I did So whenever

1:41:12

times get bad people all this who's your

1:41:15

carry the boat? You look that's real I

1:41:18

hate that people know me for that guy because

1:41:21

that guy is not every fucking day like when they see

1:41:23

me they want that energy I every

1:41:27

day I can extract it

1:41:29

immediately when I need you because when you

1:41:31

train alone and I

1:41:33

lived alone for so many years in this misery

1:41:35

and you're able to get out by yourself. I Can

1:41:38

take myself to such a level of real?

1:41:41

real passion and purpose in like

1:41:45

The feeling I get is something I can't even

1:41:47

expect by mice. I don't need anyone That's

1:41:50

why that's why people come to me to motivate them No

1:41:53

one can motivate me. I Have

1:41:56

a resume full of fucking motivation that

1:41:59

whenever I'm down my Oh, hang on motherfucker.

1:42:02

Oh, you know, you know the truth. You

1:42:05

know that you, you know, the darkness of

1:42:07

the fucking dungeons and the fucking demons that

1:42:09

fly, you know. And then from there, it's

1:42:11

like, okay, you were there. You know

1:42:13

this. There was no one there to pick up the

1:42:15

rucksack, to pick up the boat, to pick up the

1:42:17

log, to go in there. It was you. It was

1:42:20

you. There was no pat on the fucking back at 300 at 275, at

1:42:22

250, at 220. No, that was you. So those things that come

1:42:30

out of me, that extract from me in the darkness,

1:42:33

people are looking for that pat on the back. Where is it?

1:42:35

Oh, I don't need it. Because

1:42:39

what I've done is in

1:42:41

the fucking unseen work,

1:42:44

I built Frankenstein. So

1:42:47

whenever shit gets nasty, David

1:42:50

Goggins goes, you

1:42:52

had nobody anyway, motherfucker. So see how I'm talking

1:42:54

to myself right now? That's me. That shit

1:42:57

fires me the fuck up. That

1:42:59

shit makes me fucking nuts. You had

1:43:01

nobody anyway, motherfucker. Look around you. There

1:43:04

was no fucking team. It was you. There

1:43:08

was no weight loss program or mom

1:43:10

and dad waking you up saying you can

1:43:12

do it. You can be better trying to

1:43:14

build belief. You built belief when you had

1:43:16

nothing. Rock bottom.

1:43:20

You did that. So as time gets

1:43:22

hard for me, the

1:43:24

truth comes out. And

1:43:27

my truth is powerful as fuck. It's

1:43:30

real. It's tangible. I

1:43:32

feel it. It comes out of

1:43:34

my brain as I speak about it.

1:43:36

I'm reliving every single dark

1:43:39

moment of my life to be

1:43:41

here. So

1:43:44

that is what people don't get. That

1:43:47