0:00

We've reached 10 years of

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podcasting this year. To

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celebrate, we're mailing Alasaurus patches

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to all of our

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dinoadalls at the Triceratops level

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and up. all by Dino-It-alls.com

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0:17

28th Hello

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and welcome to Dino Dino. Keep

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up with the latest

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dinosaur discoveries and science with

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us. and science And I'm

0:33

Sabrina. I'm Garrett today, in our

0:35

our we're talking about

0:37

dinosaur dancing and movement. Yes,

0:40

we also We also have of the Day,

0:42

of the Day, and a

0:44

and a guanodont that lived in the

0:46

the early and our fun fact.

0:56

In other words, some sort of movement.

0:58

movement. And we are still And we are

1:00

still on parental leave. this We are

1:02

recording this early, so we're actually

1:04

expecting our second baby soon, but it

1:06

seemed like a good idea to

1:09

record a few episodes ahead of time.

1:11

They're unpredictable. Sometimes they show up

1:13

early. Yes. So it's good to have these

1:16

things ready in advance. advance. Since already

1:18

have a toddler. It was

1:20

a little bit too difficult to

1:22

record enough to have weekly

1:24

episodes this time, so we are

1:26

trying out bi out biweekly, worry,

1:28

we will be back soon. soon,

1:30

the meantime, I hope you I

1:32

this episode on episode on But

1:34

before we start talking all about dinosaur

1:36

dancing and movement, we have some patrons

1:38

to thank. And this

1:40

week they are patrons to

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Amber, and Travis, they are Anna Rose, Amber,

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Jurassic pirate, Larissa,

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all very much for joining. joining and our

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our dinosaurs moving and

1:56

dancing. Yes, yes, thank you so

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much Thank you

2:00

so much for

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your support. We appreciate you

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always, but we especially appreciate it

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while we're able to take some

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time off for our growing family.

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Yes, and I really enjoy going

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please consider joining our patreon.com.com/Inodino. if

2:26

all goes according to plan and

2:28

I think it will this episode

2:30

will be coming out just at

2:32

the beginning of the new year

2:34

so happy new year hey hey

2:36

yeah and I was thinking about

2:38

how one of the most common

2:40

new year resolutions is to exercise

2:42

which is what got me thinking

2:44

about dinosaur movement and also I

2:46

was thinking about dancing because there's

2:48

a lot of dancing that happens

2:50

on New Year's Eve probably not

2:52

for us this year with the

2:54

newborn and the toddler but who

2:56

knows We might be dancing to

2:58

get them to sleep. Yeah, that's

3:00

true. Bouncing. Yeah. Rocking. I am

3:02

saying this a couple months ahead

3:04

of time. We can try. Anyway,

3:06

this episode's about dinosaurs dancing, which

3:08

is really about courting and mating,

3:10

and also about how they moved

3:12

in general. But real quick before

3:14

we get into that, I have

3:16

another New Year's item. So the

3:18

last couple of years, we've been celebrating

3:21

the New Year with a special

3:23

dynamital patch, and we're doing it

3:25

again this year. Also, an extra

3:27

special year for us because we're

3:29

celebrating 10 years of the I-N-O-Dino

3:31

podcast. So if you join our

3:33

community at the triceratops tier or

3:35

above by the end of this

3:37

February, we'll send you an exclusive

3:39

allosaurus dynamital patch. Yay, carnivores! Yeah,

3:41

first time we're doing a carnivore.

3:43

Yes, or if you're already a

3:45

patron, make sure your address is

3:47

up to date so we can

3:49

send you your patch. And that's,

3:51

again, at patron.com/I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-N-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n- I would say

3:53

it's really hard to know how

3:55

dinosaurs moved since we mostly know

3:57

them from their bones and some

3:59

trace marks. Yeah, occasionally you

4:01

get some muscles and skin and

4:03

fat, fat, collagen gives gives you some

4:05

hints at how their bones were

4:07

connected, but often not, often you're

4:09

just working with the bones. bones. Yes.

4:12

So it's it's hard to know how

4:14

they they moved. even harder to know how

4:16

they danced, danced, I'd say, but there

4:18

is some evidence of some dinosaurs dancing.

4:20

at least. At least. We just don't know the

4:22

choreography. I see was a

4:25

was a dinosaur dance floor

4:27

discovered in 2008 on

4:29

the Arizona -Utah border in

4:31

the U.S. What What do you mean

4:33

by dinosaur dance floor? dance were so

4:36

many tracks as as

4:38

well as some

4:40

dinosaur tail drag marks. Okay, so

4:42

so this isn't like a constructed

4:44

floor. This is more

4:46

like a dinosaur dance

4:48

area. Yes, it's not not like

4:50

a disco or something like

4:53

that. A disco. I can say a

4:55

club. I can say

4:57

something more modern. was, it was a sandy

4:59

desert oasis was, it was a

5:01

sandy desert But like I million

5:03

years ago. some rare But like I

5:05

said, it includes some rare dinosaur

5:07

tail There's There's fewer than a dozen

5:09

dinosaur tail drag marks. marks found around

5:11

the world. these marks, these

5:14

marks two and a half, and a

5:16

half, almost two and a half

5:18

inches wide and up to and feet

5:20

long. feet There's more than than a dinosaur

5:22

tracks. There's probably multiple thousands. multiple which is

5:24

why they called it a dinosaur dance floor. dance

5:27

There's probably multiple types of dinosaurs

5:29

that made the tracks. There's at

5:31

least four species, and they found

5:33

tracks from and small, medium, and large

5:35

theropods, as well as medium, and large and

5:37

these animals range from adults

5:39

to juveniles. animals ranged that it's

5:41

so many different types of so

5:43

many different types of I'm guessing it

5:46

didn't all happen at the same

5:48

time. same time. But the scientists compared

5:50

it to Dance Dance Revolution it there

5:52

were so many tracks. Revolution all

5:54

the arrows so many a row.

5:56

all the all the in a

5:59

row. Yeah, all the stumps. Originally, these tracks

6:01

were thought to be pot holes

6:03

from erosion. They were made in

6:05

what was a wet, low watering

6:07

hole between the dunes. But now

6:09

scientists consider them to be tracks

6:12

and not pot holes because they're

6:14

the right size. They're limited to

6:16

a single rockbed. There's four types

6:18

of footprint shapes that are seen

6:20

repeatedly. One third of the prints

6:22

are surrounded by small ridges or

6:24

mounds from stepping in wet sand.

6:26

The tracks show a direction of

6:29

travel to the west and southwest.

6:31

And there's signs of... over printing

6:33

where a dinosaur would have stepped

6:35

in a footprint. Yeah, so it's

6:37

kind of like a double exposure

6:39

in photography. It's a double footprint

6:41

on top of itself. Mm-hmm. Double

6:43

footprint. There was a 2024 study

6:46

by J.A. McLarty and R. Esperante

6:48

that studied the Therapod tracks that

6:50

showed the dinosaurs turning between 44

6:52

to 84 degrees. Four trackways in

6:54

eight sites are found with stopping

6:56

or pausing points. In one case,

6:58

one of the dinosaurs was limping.

7:01

In another case, there's a sudden

7:03

abrupt change in direction. It's possible

7:05

it was responding to an unknown

7:07

obstacle, and then it returned to

7:09

its original orientation. So maybe it

7:11

was a dinosaur that was avoiding

7:13

another dinosaur that was in motion.

7:15

And there's a trace that shows

7:18

a possible Therapot crouching, which is

7:20

pretty cool. So it sounds like

7:22

that one isn't any sort of...

7:24

actual dancing. It's more of a,

7:26

they call it a dance floor

7:28

just because there's so many tracks.

7:30

Yes, but you see the movement

7:32

and you see unusual movements because

7:35

usually we just see the walking.

7:37

So I guess we can't officially

7:39

rule out dancing. Yeah. But maybe

7:41

the simpler explanation is more like

7:43

avoiding obstacles and things like that.

7:45

Maybe. Like I said, we don't

7:47

know the choreography. I've talked about

7:49

trace fossils before in previous episodes

7:52

and there are a lot of

7:54

tracks that have been found around

7:56

the world. Another big one.

7:58

is the Carrera's Pompa

8:00

site in Bolivia.

8:02

Bolivia. That's not the vertical

8:04

one. one, it's from the

8:06

from the Lake It's the world's

8:09

largest concentration of dinosaur of

8:11

They found 978 trackways so

8:13

far. So it's probably a lot

8:15

it's probably a lot of individuals making

8:17

these We We don't know exactly how

8:19

many, how but they're made by theropods

8:21

of various sizes. of The track lengths

8:23

range lengths range from inches

8:25

to almost to inches 13 inches. Little

8:28

over seven two. 33

8:30

centimeters. They're from theropods,

8:32

from sizes, different sizes, over 29 anywhere from

8:35

over 29 or to 1 .3 meters

8:37

or over 11 inches to over

8:39

four feet at the hip. was saying,

8:41

we see tracks like I was saying, we

8:43

see tracks a they're walking in a straight line, but

8:46

apparently for this one there's some evidence

8:48

of tail of tail and swimming, although a

8:50

work - in progress, in we don't know the

8:52

details yet. the details yet. So maybe

8:54

some of the tail dragging is into or out

8:56

of the water something like that. or could

8:58

be. that? Could be. there is evidence

9:01

of of that were dancing in that

9:03

that they were probably... doing doing

9:05

some like mating or courtship dances. In 2016

9:07

In 2016, Martin others and

9:09

others published on scrape marks, they're There

9:11

are about 50 of them found

9:14

in sandstone from a million years ago

9:16

in Colorado. ago in And the scrapes

9:18

are up to two meters in diameter

9:20

in diameter, scrapes. So maybe it's from

9:22

lecking. Like males are performing a mating

9:24

ritual to attract females to we see

9:26

with grouse. like we Yeah, there's a lot of

9:28

birds that do that kind of thing. of

9:30

birds that do that is the best analogy for

9:32

really is the best the dirt. You think so. into

9:35

the dirt. I think Now, nearby at the

9:37

same time, so yeah, maybe it's

9:39

from acrocanthosaurus. it's from he has

9:42

two meters in diameter of a in

9:44

diameter of very large. That's almost seven

9:46

feet. almost seven feet. Yes.

9:48

And they run in in five six foot

9:50

patterns and they resemble traces that

9:52

are left behind by cording birds. birds.

9:55

So the the team actually compared

9:57

them to to and ostriches. ostriches. The

9:59

thinking as the traces were made

10:01

in breeding season in springtime. There's four

10:03

sites with large nest scrape display traces

10:06

identified, and that helps support this mating

10:08

dance idea. And then in 2024, Roger

10:10

C.C.C. Button and others found more evidence

10:13

for mating displays or nest building behaviors.

10:15

At Dinosaur Ridge in Morris and Colorado

10:17

in the US, there's scrapes along with

10:20

ancient microbial mats in vertebrates and plant

10:22

traces. Specifically, there's two large symmetrical troughs

10:24

with 30 sets of scratch marks that

10:27

preserve toe marks. There's sharp vertical walls

10:29

of individual scratches, which may mean the

10:31

area was moist to water undersaturated when

10:34

the marks were made. It's not good

10:36

conditions for a nest. And then behind

10:38

the troughs are microbial mat chips and

10:41

fragments, and the mat chips were ripped

10:43

off by theropods, toe claws. The microbial

10:45

mats and good preservation from a second-generation

10:47

match shows that the marks were made

10:50

in spring probably before the breeding season.

10:52

So all seems to point to mating

10:54

dances. Yeah, I think I remember reporting

10:57

on this way back in the day

10:59

and looking into what the lecking displays

11:01

are like and everything. And like you

11:04

were saying, one of the big pieces

11:06

of evidence is not that there are...

11:08

is something specific about one of those

11:11

scratch marks, but that there are just

11:13

a whole bunch of them in one

11:15

location that fossilized together. And what you

11:18

see was lecking in some of these

11:20

birds today is that there will be

11:22

a bunch of males in the same

11:25

general area trying to get attention of

11:27

a few females. So... the fact that

11:29

they're all doing it together is significant.

11:32

Sort of like the earlier version of

11:34

dinosaur nesting sites where you find a

11:36

whole bunch of eggs in the same

11:38

area kind of shows you that they're

11:41

possibly doing some sort of courtship and

11:43

mating in the same area. This is

11:45

just another piece of that story. Yeah.

11:48

So then that brings me to mating.

11:50

We don't really know how non-avian dinosaurs

11:52

mated. There's no direct evidence that's been

11:55

found. No fossil. found of dinosaurs in

11:57

the act, for example. We do think

11:59

they probably had cloakers, like modern birds.

12:02

We do. That's all of the above

12:04

hole. If it was similar to crocodiles

12:06

and birds, it probably was a quick

12:09

process. We do know a lot of

12:11

dinosaurs had ornamentation, possibly to attract mates,

12:13

like horns and frills or feathers or

12:16

crests. There is evidence of maybe one

12:18

mating pair of dinosaurs. They're known as

12:20

Romeo and Juliet. They're a pair of

12:22

overrapped resource found in 2011, specifically their

12:25

con. That was our dinosaur of the

12:27

day back in episode 290. I think

12:29

they also went by Sydney and Nancy.

12:32

Sid and Nancy. Sid and Nancy. Yes,

12:34

but... I like Romeo and Juliet, yeah.

12:36

Especially because they got fossilized together. Yes,

12:39

they were found in the Gobi Desert,

12:41

they died and were buried together. They

12:43

died after some sudden rains, which caused

12:46

her sand dune to collapse on them.

12:48

probably. Just like the fighting dinosaurs. Yeah.

12:50

But these were lovers, not fighters, potentially.

12:53

Right. They run the gamut in the

12:55

goby. And they had feathers, but they

12:57

didn't fly. So it seems like the

13:00

feathers could be for attracting mates. They

13:02

were also about the same size, same

13:04

build, probably around the same age, based

13:07

on some fused vertebrae, they are thought

13:09

to both be adults. But one of

13:11

them had... large bony structures in the

13:13

tail, which might have been to support

13:16

muscles used for tail feather displays, like

13:18

modern peacocks. And the one with the

13:20

muscles for tail feather displays was probably

13:23

male, and then the one with the

13:25

smaller bony structures was probably female, because

13:27

then it would have had more room

13:30

or been easier to lay eggs. The

13:32

tail was flexible and muscular, so it

13:34

could shake its tail feathers to attract

13:37

mates, in theory. And Scott persons and

13:39

others ruled out that it was a

13:41

pathology on the tail. They said the

13:44

structures were too different to be individual

13:46

variation as well. But it's so hard

13:48

to know. Yeah, sexual dimorphism from just

13:51

two individuals is hard to say for

13:53

sure. But that's really cool. Mm-hmm. Now

13:55

in terms of... how dinosaurs

13:57

moved, in in general. Hausen,

14:00

who's a famous who's a

14:02

famous animator, I found

14:04

wrote, wrote, quote, I

14:07

found dinosaurs to be the ideal subject for

14:09

stop motion animation. The The fact that nobody

14:11

knew how those huge reptiles had moved

14:13

or, for that matter, exactly how they looked

14:15

meant that I could bring them alive

14:17

without any fear of criticism. alive without any fear of

14:19

times have changed. times have he

14:21

just wasn't aware of how critical

14:23

of how could be at the

14:25

time. could or. the time. You know,

14:28

know, we know a lot more now than we did

14:30

when he he was animating. That's true.

14:32

In 1841, Richard 1841, Richard Owen

14:34

envisioned dinosaurs as standing and moving

14:36

more like mammals and birds

14:38

than sprawling reptiles based on studying

14:40

their limb anatomy, a joint seemed to keep

14:42

to keep them in this

14:44

erect posture and restrict limb movements

14:46

to a a parallel to the

14:48

body. This is known as known

14:50

as gait. gait. Yeah, I think that

14:52

I think that mammalian look is a

14:54

good description of what he advised

14:56

for the crystal dinosaurs, where they kind

14:58

of look like big bears. like big bears. It

15:00

does, It does, yes, especially that

15:02

Megalosaurus. But then people people started

15:04

thinking of dinosaurs as

15:07

sluggish and dragging their tails

15:09

until the the renaissance the the 1960s

15:11

and 1970s. John

15:13

Hutchinson, who's done a who's done a lot

15:15

of research around dinosaur locomotion, said way

15:17

back in 2005 that to figure

15:19

out how dinosaurs moved, we need to

15:21

know more about their biology. biology. You've

15:23

focus on their entire limb, not just the

15:25

bones, and also look at the look other

15:28

evidence they left behind. they left

15:30

behind. So do know on models made

15:32

from made skeletons and footprints, the dinosaurs

15:34

had an erect posture, and the limb

15:36

motion is mostly from the hip. is

15:38

mostly We'll get more into how how moved

15:40

in just a moment, but first we're gonna

15:42

take a quick break for our sponsors. a quick

15:45

break for our sponsors. Ten years ago,

15:47

years ago, after a and wedding we

15:49

realizing we didn't want to stop

15:51

talking about dinosaurs, we started this

15:53

podcast. And I And I want

15:55

to say thank you so much

15:57

to our listeners, especially our Dino at all,

15:59

for - supporting us and making this

16:02

show possible, and we will be

16:04

celebrating all year. The last couple

16:06

years, our special limited edition patches

16:08

have been a big hit, so

16:10

to kick off the celebrations, if

16:12

you're a patron at the triceratops

16:14

level or above, by the end

16:16

of this February, we'll send you

16:19

a special limited edition Allosaurus Dinodol

16:21

patch. Yes, we are finally doing

16:23

a carnivore. Yeah, the head is

16:25

in red and black and I

16:27

think it turned out great with

16:29

the teeth highlighted in a stitched

16:31

red outline. And if you want

16:34

to see that new Allisores patch,

16:36

head over to patreon.com/ionodino. And while

16:38

you're there, if you like what

16:40

you see, you can join our

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dynamodal community. And if you've already

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16:48

sign up at the triceratops level

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or above, you'll get your own

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Allisores patch. Again, just make sure

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that you join by February 28th,

16:57

you have two months to join

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this year, that's part of our

17:01

10-year anniversary celebrations. And again, to

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check out the new Allisores patch,

17:05

and or to sign out to

17:08

join our community, head over to

17:10

patron.com/Ainodino. One thing that would have

17:12

affected how dinosaurs move is whether

17:14

or not they were more warm-blooded

17:16

or cold-blooded. A 2022 study found

17:18

that ornithiscians were more likely cold-blooded

17:20

and soripods warm-blooded, although a study

17:22

in 2024 found the opposite. Those

17:25

are such recent studies to be

17:27

on completely different pages. Yes. The

17:29

2024 study found that the three

17:31

main dinosaur groups, theropods, soripods, ornithiscians,

17:33

adapted differently to changes in temperature.

17:35

and that the ability to regulate

17:37

body temperature evolved in the Jurassic

17:39

about 180 million years ago. They

17:42

looked at fossils from a thousand

17:44

species, and they also looked at

17:46

a lot of different paleo-climates, and

17:48

they found that theropods and ornithiscians

17:50

seemed to spread to live in

17:52

colder climates in the early Jurassic,

17:54

so maybe they evolved endothermy, where

17:57

they could generate their own body

17:59

heat. be warm -blooded. Those

18:01

groups are Those groups are adaptable and

18:03

they did well in various climates. There are

18:05

therepods in warm and dry climates, as well

18:07

as cooler and more seasonable climates. climates,

18:09

and that went to more humid

18:11

and seasonal climates. humid and seasonal

18:14

though, stayed in warmer, lower latitude areas,

18:16

and not just for the food. for

18:18

the food. is that is that they were more

18:20

more cold -blooded. Otherwise they would have overheated

18:22

and needed to eat more food than even

18:24

was sustainable. even was sustainable. That's

18:27

true, because cold -blooded animals don't need

18:29

nearly as much food, because they're

18:31

not turning all that food into

18:33

heat for themselves. into heat for themselves. There

18:35

is some debate on this on some

18:37

debate on whether there's a sampling issue issue,

18:39

which dinosaurs were included in the study.

18:42

in the study. the other hand, it hand, it

18:44

would have shed too much heat in

18:46

the neck alone the they were in cooler

18:48

climates. climates. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah,

18:50

Yeah, cause even if you're warm you're cold

18:53

-blooded, your body makes a

18:55

big difference. Like you look at things

18:57

like penguins that are so round. so round. Yes.

18:59

And And with humans too, right? Our Our

19:01

limbs tend to get shorter as we're

19:03

closer to the poles the time time when

19:05

we're near the equator. the equator. Yes. So maybe

19:08

this will be will be an ongoing debate

19:10

for a while. a while. There's been a lot of been

19:12

a lot of studies on dinosaur movement. And

19:14

I think it think it makes sense to break

19:16

it down by the three main groups, starting with

19:18

the starting with the Theropods. in

19:20

really handy for these studies. studies.

19:22

There was one done by Pasha A. Van

19:25

and others, found that two -legged

19:27

dinosaurs used their tails when walking. their

19:30

the questions they asked her. What's the preferred

19:32

walking speed and what's the optimal walking

19:34

speed? And they found

19:36

the optimal walking speed? And under that

19:38

miles per hour, which is

19:40

similar to humans and other

19:43

animals, like ostriches, horses, and

19:45

elephants, giraffes, noose, and horses, They

19:47

are all. news, 2 .2 to

19:49

3 .1 miles per hour. 3.3 to 3.

19:51

This This natural walking speed minimizes

19:53

the amount of body energy

19:55

spent. the study So this study

19:58

predicted a slower walking speed than other

20:00

studies for Tyrannos. But anyway, they also found

20:02

theropods used their tails while moving, but

20:04

the tails were supported in stiff. They

20:06

were suspended by ligaments that behave like

20:08

rubber bands, and it made them like

20:11

a mass spring system or a suspension

20:13

bridge with lots of muscle in it.

20:15

The tails did have some flexibility. They

20:17

would have moved back and forth with

20:20

each step. What they did was they

20:22

made a computer model of the tail

20:24

based on tricks the T-Rex, which is

20:26

about 39 feet or 12 meters long.

20:28

and gave it a walking speed of

20:31

2.86 miles per hour. They didn't look

20:33

at the max speed, just the optimal

20:35

speed. Yeah, a lot of times it's

20:37

easier to find that optimal speed because

20:40

you can look at the spacing of

20:42

tracks. You can sort of do a

20:44

calculation on the pendulum of their leg,

20:46

or you can look at range of

20:48

motion and all sorts of things to

20:51

that effect. But for looking at the

20:53

maximum speed, that's so much more complicated.

20:55

Because then you're talking about maximum range

20:57

of motion and you probably don't have

21:00

tracks of it running. So you're going

21:02

to have to infer that from a

21:04

whole bunch of estimates on where muscles

21:06

and ligaments would be, how flexible joints

21:08

would be, how much cartilage there is.

21:11

It's much more complicated. Yes. There are

21:13

other studies that have found that on

21:15

the max speed size it could go

21:17

up to like. 12 miles an hour

21:20

and 18 miles an hour or 20

21:22

to 29 kilometers per hour. Any faster

21:24

than that and the bones may have

21:26

shattered. Yeah. So in that case you're

21:28

looking at what's the limit of the

21:31

bone strength, which is one way to

21:33

look at it, but not all animals

21:35

get close to that. Yes. It's not

21:37

often the limiting factor that you're going

21:40

to break a bone if you run

21:42

any faster. Sounds painful though. Don't go

21:44

too faster, you'll break a bone. Anyway,

21:46

this isn't the only study that looked

21:48

at a dinosaur's tail. There was one

21:51

in 2021 by Peter Bishop and others

21:53

that made a computer simulation of cylophysis.

21:55

That's a therapy that lived in the

21:57

Triassic. It's on two legs. It had

22:00

long legs and a long heavy tail.

22:02

And it's really well known because a

22:04

lot of fossils have been founds. so

22:06

that made it easier to build this

22:08

model. And they found that its tail

22:11

helped it walk and run because it

22:13

wagged its tail side to side, similar

22:15

to how we swing our arms when

22:17

we walk. And so it's possible other

22:20

dinosaurs did this too. So the tails

22:22

are important for movement, not just the

22:24

legs. Yeah. And the tail kind of

22:26

wagged to the left when the left

22:28

leg retracted backwards. When the model forced

22:31

the tail to wag in the opposite

22:33

way, they found the dinosaur had to

22:35

move differently in a way that took

22:37

more energy. Yeah, it's like if you

22:40

ever walk and try to swing your

22:42

arms with the leg that's going forward,

22:44

it feels really awkward and weird. Yes.

22:46

But the cool thing with the tail

22:48

is that it has those muscles that

22:51

attach to the back of the leg,

22:53

so that swing to the side literally

22:55

pulls up the leg using the codofemoralus

22:57

muscles. They'd get this extra sort of

23:00

pendulum effect of the tail going from

23:02

side to side, and this rhythm to

23:04

their walking that we don't get to

23:06

take advantage of. I mean, I guess

23:08

our arms do a little something, but

23:11

it's not as efficient. Yes. And they

23:13

also found that it used more energy

23:15

without the tail. So the tail's important

23:17

for movement. There was another study in

23:20

2020 of Cylophysis that simulated it running

23:22

and found that it had a more

23:24

upright posture than modern birds around the

23:26

same size. So probably used a more

23:28

upright or extended leg posture instead of

23:31

using a more flexed hip when running

23:33

fast. A study in 2018, by Bishop

23:35

and others, compared ground running birds to

23:37

predict how bipedal dinosaurs moved based on

23:40

their speed and body size. So the

23:42

model did require knowing an animal's body

23:44

mass and speed. And they examined 12

23:46

species that ranged in size from 45

23:48

grams to 80 kilograms or one and

23:51

a half ounces to 176 pounds. It's

23:53

quite a range. And then they recorded

23:55

them moving at different speeds on racetracks.

23:57

So these are living animals. They included...

24:00

quails, tina Tina Moose.

24:02

emus, and turkeys. They and

24:04

turkeys. birds move in found birds move

24:06

in a continuum from walking to

24:09

running. a They have a really

24:11

smooth transition. Yes, Yes, they're not

24:13

like us, where you can really feel

24:15

the difference as soon as you go from

24:17

walking fast to jogging, and that one leg's

24:19

getting off the ground, the they do this

24:21

thing called fast walking, walking, which is like an

24:23

exact in between. I'm always amazed amazed you

24:25

ever chase a bird or see somebody

24:27

chase a bird, they keep one foot on

24:29

the ground the their feet are going back

24:31

and forth so rapidly forth so they finally

24:33

get to an actual run. And a lot

24:35

of them switched to flying these days to

24:37

ever really running. It's more just a

24:40

faster and faster walk. walk. Yes, another study

24:42

another study from earlier in 2017

24:44

that their step width decreases as

24:46

the speed increases, so the as get

24:48

closer as they speed up. the

24:50

step width that the step width

24:52

decreased gradually with dinosaurs and birds.

24:55

it But for us humans, as it

24:57

changes changes a and sudden and we're switching

24:59

from walking to running. walking to

25:01

we have distinct walking and running

25:03

gates. and and you can easily tell

25:05

the difference tell the we're doing either

25:07

of them. them. Yeah, it could be partly why

25:09

it's so hard to find running tracks of

25:11

dinosaurs. Cause maybe you you at a

25:13

track and you're like, that's a regular walking track,

25:15

but it's actually a running track. it's hard to tell

25:17

the difference. track and it's hard when the birds

25:19

keep their feet on the ground, at the

25:22

same time, it's called feet on the of grounded running. it's

25:24

called intermediate gate I've heard it

25:26

called running. walking before yeah, I've I guess grounded

25:28

running is good, too but I guess grounded

25:30

running other other did the same

25:32

as birds. Birds are theropods, but but

25:35

non-avian ones. Usually we think of running

25:37

of running when are momentarily off the

25:39

ground, off but there is an updated

25:41

definition I found, which is I found,

25:43

which is bouncy locomotion. So with dinosaurs they were with dinosaurs, They

25:45

they were one foot They walked one foot

25:47

directly in front of the other. is an Bouncy

25:50

is an interesting thing like it's part part

25:52

of the body needs to bounce we run,

25:54

we run whole like our whole body

25:56

bounces watch you watch something like a or

25:58

or something. They're almost more like... like curling

26:00

up and then stretching out and it

26:02

really looks very smooth. You see a

26:05

slow motion of it, their head is

26:07

pretty steady and even their back and

26:09

stuff doesn't go that high, doesn't really

26:11

bounce per se, but to say a

26:13

cheetah isn't running would be crazy. Yes.

26:16

Well that 2018 study found that T-Rex

26:18

would have moved in a more bouncing

26:20

like way. It kind of happened at

26:22

the bigger sizes as a little bouncer.

26:24

It does often seem like birds are

26:27

able to do some of that fast.

26:29

walking or grounded running because they're so

26:31

small. Getting those really tiny thin legs

26:33

to flip back and forth really quick

26:35

is a lot easier than getting hundreds

26:38

of pounds of leg to do the

26:40

same thing. Yes. Well, as you can

26:42

imagine, there's been a lot of studies

26:44

that compare birds to their nonavian ancestors,

26:47

and that makes sense. You can infer

26:49

how dinosaurs moved based on looking at

26:51

birds. For example, a study in 2010

26:53

found that ostriches used their wings to

26:55

help... break quickly, turn, and zigzag, which

26:58

might mean that dinosaurs like gigantoraptor use

27:00

their feathered arms to help them maneuver

27:02

and keep them stable. Think of it

27:04

like a jet plane. It's like they

27:06

put a flap down and it grabs

27:09

a bunch of air so they turn

27:11

really quick in that direction. They're the

27:13

same thing with an ostrich sticking out

27:15

a wing. Yeah. They also found in

27:17

ostriches a small intertarsal muscle that's important

27:20

for movement. Oh. So if non-avian theropods

27:22

had it, they could have had similar

27:24

running styles, and that could mean it

27:26

took less energy to run so they

27:29

would have been able to run longer

27:31

and faster. There also seems to be

27:33

a link between wing size and function.

27:35

Emus and cassowaries have small wings. They

27:37

hold them tight to their body and

27:40

don't use it in locomotion. Interestingly, a

27:42

2021 study found that early dinosaurs moved

27:44

differently from birds, which also makes sense

27:46

because things might change over time. They

27:48

used 3D computer models to see how

27:51

35 leg muscles evolved over 230 million

27:53

years, and they found that the hip

27:55

and knee muscles changed. Large carnivorous theropods

27:57

that used two legs to walk in

27:59

the early Jurassic evolves some special muscles

28:02

that made their leg joints more mobile

28:04

and might be related to taking on

28:06

larger prey. But this reversed in birds.

28:08

So early dinosaurs may have moved more

28:10

like mammals than birds. Maybe Richard Owen

28:13

was right. In some ways. Oh, and

28:15

last, just for fun, I wanted to

28:17

bring up, we've talked about this before,

28:19

but that 2015 study that got the

28:22

Ig Nobel Prize, that's for work that

28:24

makes you laugh and then think. It

28:26

was research done by Jose Ariarte Diaz

28:28

on Dinosaur Movement, and he attached a

28:30

fake tail to chickens to see how

28:33

it affected their walk. He was modeling

28:35

clay to attach the tail, a wooden

28:37

stick, to chickens two days after hatching,

28:39

and he worked on 12 chickens. It

28:41

was described like putting a plunger on

28:44

their butt, which is basically what it

28:46

looked like. It did. And he would

28:48

change the tail every five days as

28:50

they grew and then compared their movements

28:52

to chickens without tails, and suggested that

28:55

dinosaurs walked with a vertical stance and

28:57

most of the movement in the hips,

28:59

more like humans. But the chickens without

29:01

the plunger tails had more horizontal movements

29:03

with the knees doing most of the

29:06

work. Yeah, that goes back to that.

29:08

The tail helps a little bit with

29:10

balance and things like that. Yeah. Even

29:12

if it doesn't have the muscles there

29:15

to lift a leg, it could still

29:17

help to just have that weight weight.

29:19

So that covers theropod movements. I don't

29:21

think there's as much research on sorropod

29:23

movement, but there are still some interesting

29:26

studies. A lot of them involve scanning

29:28

fossils and making computer models and simulations

29:30

to figure out how they walked. One

29:32

study in 2017 found that Mussaurus, which

29:34

was our Dinosaur the Day in episode

29:37

220, It's a sorotomorph that lived in

29:39

the late Triassic and what's now Argentina.

29:41

And it was originally thought to be

29:43

small, but it turned out those were

29:45

based on juvenile skeletons. We now know

29:48

it could get much bigger. Anyway, it

29:50

moved on two legs. At least at

29:52

some points, right? Yes. The study found

29:54

that the palms of its front limbs

29:57

faced inwards and its arm joints couldn't

29:59

rotate downward. words. compared the They

30:01

compared the front limbs of crocodiles and and

30:03

reconstructed the musculoskeletal anatomy and

30:06

then compared the range of motion

30:08

of the arms. of the arms.

30:10

They looked at 30 muscles around the

30:12

shoulder, elbow, and wrist joints. wrist joints. And

30:14

it turns out that limb posture plays

30:16

a big role in muscle action, how the

30:18

muscles work. muscles work. Crocodiles have a

30:20

range of of closer to the,

30:22

quote, to the ancestral state for

30:24

state for arcosoria. I mean, they haven't

30:26

changed much. much. They They found

30:28

that Musaurus could maybe have some active

30:30

pronation of the hands, but the

30:32

muscles around the joint to actively pronate

30:35

may have been too weak. have been

30:37

too weak. Now based on on it

30:39

seems that sauropods moving to

30:41

all to was linked not only

30:43

to to Manus how their

30:45

hands were. hands but also by the by

30:47

limbs shifting into a more a

30:49

posture. posture. So they so they

30:51

had to be able to hold all that

30:53

weight. and that's easier and that's easier if

30:55

you put your legs under you. you. I mean, I guess the

30:58

I guess the alternative is whole just rest your

31:00

whole body on the ground and have them sprawled

31:02

out. But then if you're trying to cover a

31:04

lot of distance, a it's a little tricky. Yes. Then a

31:06

study in 2019 looked at the growth study in

31:08

2019 looked at the growth series of

31:10

mass over its to figure out how it

31:12

changed its movement over its lifetime. the day

31:14

in episode 40. It was a sore was our that

31:16

the day in 40. It was a

31:18

sauropodomorph that lived in the early

31:20

Jurassic in what's now Argentina. Argentina. And we

31:22

know them from hatchling, juvenile, and

31:24

mature specimens so you can compare a

31:26

growth series and see how it

31:28

changed over time. how it changed over I

31:30

love that. Then we have sort of

31:32

the have grave. the growth curve

31:35

of of mass of It's so rare. is

31:37

so rare. Yes. So for the study,

31:39

they compared body shape and locomotor

31:41

stance being on on four legs

31:43

versus two legs how it how it

31:45

changed over time from hatchling

31:47

to juvenile, about one year old,

31:49

to adults, which are over

31:51

eight years old. years old. They They found

31:54

bottle quickly, from about 60

31:56

grams or over two

31:58

ounces, to about seven. kilograms

32:00

or over 15 pounds just at one

32:03

year old, and then over a thousand

32:05

kilograms or 2,200 pounds as an adult.

32:07

And during this time, their body center

32:10

of mass shifted from mid-body to more

32:12

in the back, nearer to the hips.

32:14

So this helps show a shift from

32:17

being quadrupedal to bipedal, and it happens

32:19

early on. They found the development of

32:21

the tail and neck was more important

32:23

to in determining the soripodmor stance. There

32:26

was another study that reconstructed how soripods

32:28

walked based on studying their tracks. There

32:30

were three trackways, and they measured the

32:33

distance between them as well as figured

32:35

out if the print was from the

32:37

front or the back foot, as well

32:39

as the left or the right leg.

32:42

They found the soripod walked in a

32:44

diagonal couplet pattern, keeping one foot down

32:46

on each side, and it moved more

32:49

like a beaver or a hedgehog. Yeah,

32:51

I think that means front, left, back,

32:53

right, simultaneous. and then front, right, back,

32:56

left, simultaneous. Whereas a lot of other

32:58

animals sort of do them in a

33:00

rotation, where it's like front, left, front,

33:02

right, back, left, or vice versa. Yeah.

33:05

All the way around, especially the big

33:07

heavy animals. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so the

33:09

sorabods didn't move like giraffes, because giraffes

33:12

have either the left or right legs

33:14

hit the ground at once. Oh yeah,

33:16

that's the other one. You do the

33:19

both on the other one. But that

33:21

would have been too risky for a

33:23

soripod in case it fell down, because

33:25

it's such a large size. If it

33:28

fell, it would probably die. Although it's

33:30

possible that different soripods walk differently. Definitely.

33:32

Almost certainly. When you're talking about soripotomorps,

33:35

over 150 million years, they're not all

33:37

going to walk exactly the same. I

33:39

mean, even like you're talking about with

33:42

musaurus, they started out quadrupedal, switched to

33:44

bipedal. We don't think all soropods did

33:46

that. And then last but not least

33:48

are the ornithiscians, the bird-hyped herbivorous dinosaurs.

33:51

There's a lot of those with different

33:53

types of movement. Oh yeah, lots of

33:55

variety, because you've got things like ankylosaurus,

33:58

triceratops, pachycephalosaurus, and much more. All the

34:00

hadrosauroids. Mm-hmm. But a 2011 study found

34:02

that the earliest ornithiscians were small bipeds,

34:05

small and walked on two legs, and

34:07

they used their arms for grasping. And

34:09

that three ornithiscian lineages independently evolved to

34:11

grow large and walk on all fours.

34:14

But speaking of the bipeds, the two-legers,

34:16

two-legors. It's got to be a fun

34:18

nickname. Anyway, there was a 2013 study

34:21

of Satakasaurus that found it was mostly

34:23

bipedal as an adult. It shifted from

34:25

all fours to two. They studied 16

34:27

individuals from the Ishian formation in China.

34:30

Ten were juveniles, and the four limbs

34:32

and high limbs were close to the

34:34

same lengths as the hatchlings, but as

34:37

it got older, the limb lengths changed,

34:39

and it became bipedal. So it seems

34:41

like this shift happens sometime after its

34:44

third year based on histology. When it

34:46

was young, it's possible the Satagosaurs hatchlings

34:48

were mostly on all fours and ran

34:50

on two legs, and then adults were

34:53

only on all fours when moving very

34:55

slowly. But it seems there was at

34:57

least a limited shift in posture. So

35:00

maybe the hatchlings used their long arms

35:02

to help keep them stable, especially on

35:04

substrator when moving slowly. A 2023 study

35:07

looked at the range of motion of

35:09

four limbs in Styrachosaurus and Thecellosaurus. They

35:11

looked at the shoulder motion, orientation of

35:13

the humerus, the radius, the ulna, and

35:16

both had limited range of motion at

35:18

the shoulder. They found that Styrachosaurus, which

35:20

is a centrosaurine, was like other chasmosaurine

35:23

seratopsians, and moved with its elbows tucked

35:25

in at the sides, and it could

35:27

display its four limbs. It also was

35:30

very front heavy and walked on all

35:32

fours. For sure, you'd think most of

35:34

those seratopsians with the huge skulls would

35:36

be stuck on all fours because the

35:39

back legs are going to be on

35:41

the ground, the actual leg. historically for

35:43

dinosaurs. It's just just

35:46

a question of whether

35:48

or not the

35:50

front the slash arms

35:53

are off the ground,

35:55

off and if you've

35:57

got a skull

35:59

that's seven feet long

36:02

and weighs hundreds

36:04

of pounds, it's gonna

36:06

be hard to

36:09

keep that up off

36:11

the ground. You have to

36:13

support it ground. You have to support they had pretty

36:15

short tails had so there wasn't much of

36:17

a too, happening. much of a counterbalance

36:20

In the sprawling position, Styracosaurus

36:22

could raise and lower its torso

36:24

and head and then rock. So maybe it

36:26

it did that for some some head-shoving

36:28

and rock side -to -side, side to and

36:30

it could have moved in a

36:32

way for display. and then also for

36:34

the head a weapon. The Celsaurus on

36:37

the other on the other hand, had limited

36:39

humorous motion and couldn't swing the humorous

36:41

forward. forward. But its forelimbs or

36:43

or hands could contact the ground while

36:45

it stood. stood. It's unlikely that

36:47

cellosaur on all fours though fours though

36:49

because its the center or middle. the

36:52

center or middle. So there we we

36:54

have it. Dinosaur mating mating and dancing

36:56

and dinosaur movement in general.

36:58

So a lot of So a lot of

37:00

evidence, of a lot of different approaches

37:02

you can take on it on it

37:04

models of what the track ways tell

37:06

you in combination with the bones bones

37:08

to sort of logistical issues of just

37:11

how much different parts of the body

37:13

the body how much stress stress. a a -rex

37:15

leg could take while running. An actual

37:17

an actual direct evidence, like you were

37:19

saying, the the scrape marks. Oh, I hope there's

37:21

more more found marks the idea of

37:23

dinosaurs dancing Mm -hmm dancing.

37:25

We We will move to to our dinosaur of

37:28

the day, Day, in just a moment,

37:30

but first we're gonna take another quick break for our

37:32

sponsors. to take another quick break for our sponsors.

37:34

And now on to our now on

37:36

to our Day, of the Day, which was

37:38

a which was a request from 716

37:40

via our our Patreon and Discord. So

37:43

thanks. So thanks. It was was an

37:45

iguanodont or nithopod dinosaur that lived

37:47

in the in the early in what's

37:49

now England. what's now in the Isle of an Isle of

37:51

Wight. described as as

37:53

kangaroo -shaped. It walked on

37:55

two legs, it had shorter arms, a a

37:57

long tail, a a bulky body, and a small

37:59

head. And it's estimated to

38:01

be about 13 to 16 feet

38:04

or 4 to 5 meters long.

38:06

The holotype is the femora, the

38:09

upper leg bone, and it was

38:11

14 centimeters or 5 and a

38:13

half inches long. So it's estimated

38:16

that its body was 1.2 meters

38:18

or 3.9 feet long, and that

38:20

it weighed 10 kilograms or 22

38:23

pounds, but the holotypes of juvenile.

38:25

That is small. Maybe it should

38:28

be described as wallaby-sized rather than

38:30

kangaroo-sized. Maybe wallaroo. We don't know

38:32

how big an adult would have

38:35

been though. That's true. Valdesaurus is

38:37

considered to be a dryosaurid. Dryosaur

38:39

are iguanidons that lived in the

38:42

middle Jurassic to early Cretaceous and

38:44

what's now Africa, Europe, and North

38:47

America. And as a dryosaur that

38:49

means it would have had a

38:51

beak and probably been a fast

38:54

runner based on limb proportions and

38:56

muscle attachments. No skull of Valdesaurus

38:58

has been found but it probably

39:01

had a battery of teeth. The

39:03

type species is Valdysaurus canallocallatus. The

39:06

genus name Valdysaurus means strong in

39:08

Latin. It comes from the Latin

39:10

volus, wealden, which refers to the

39:13

wealden group where the fossils were

39:15

found. So the genus name weald

39:17

lizard. The species name, canallocallatus, means

39:20

with a small channel in Latin,

39:22

and it refers to a groove

39:25

in the thighbone. The Reverend William

39:27

Darwin Fox collected two small thigh

39:29

bones on the Isle of Wight,

39:32

and in 1868, suggested that they

39:34

came from the same individual, and

39:36

a guanodon found in 1848 by

39:39

Gideon Mantel that was renamed in

39:41

1869 as Hipsalafodon. Both femora or

39:44

thigh bones were referred to Hipsalafodon.

39:46

Then in 1975, Peter Galton named

39:48

the thigh bones as a new

39:51

species of Dryosaurus Canalicalatus. And then

39:53

in 1977, Galton named Valdesaurus based

39:55

on these two thigh bones. So

39:58

he changes his mind. In

40:00

In 1982, and and

40:02

Philippe described a

40:04

second species, species, Valdosaurus but

40:07

this is now considered to be

40:09

considered to be a razos. William William named

40:11

another species in

40:13

1998 as Valdesaurus

40:15

dextrapata, by including that name

40:17

in a list, but it turns out

40:19

that was an error there there was no

40:21

description of it, so a of it, so it's a

40:24

meaning it wasn't officially named, so.

40:27

don't bother using it. using it.

40:29

Yes. Being Being closely related

40:31

to Drysaurus, which was found in

40:33

the U in the US, led most dryosaurid

40:35

fossils found in Europe being referred

40:37

to to Voldosaurus. But in But in 2009,

40:39

Peter Galton reviewed the Valdesaurus material

40:41

and found no fossils from outside

40:43

England could definitively be referred to

40:46

Valdesaurus. And even the specimens found

40:48

in England, it was unclear if they

40:50

were all if they were all Voldosaurus. At

40:52

one point, there were some individuals

40:54

thought to be found in Romania

40:56

of Voldosaurus. There were about 3 ,000

40:59

disarticulated bones, bones, and and some of

41:01

them were small or nithopod bones,

41:03

and they thought those were those were valdicorous.

41:05

More More of all the SARS fossils, four

41:07

specimens to be exact, to were found in

41:09

2011 from the Isle of from which shows

41:11

it was more abundant than previously thought. abundant

41:14

than ,000 thought. they weren't

41:16

all those 3,000 bones, they weren't all

41:19

Maybe none of them were maybe none of them

41:21

were ha, ha. There was a

41:23

a skeleton found in 2012 by

41:25

Nick Chase, in 2016. It's the the most

41:27

complete one found so far. It

41:29

includes part of the part of almost

41:31

complete tail parts of the hips

41:33

and both legs. parts of the it's an

41:35

articulated skeleton from the mid an to

41:37

the tip of the tail, but it's

41:39

missing its front half, possibly eroded away. tail,

41:41

but it's missing its front half,

41:43

possibly got eroded for us

41:46

all. Yeah, I'll get you. Comes for us

41:48

all. Some other dinosaurs

41:50

that lived around the

41:52

same time and

41:54

place as place Voltosaurus include the

41:56

Tyrannosauraeotranes, Spinosaurs, Sorephods, and Ornithopods,

41:58

including Iguadon, Hipsalafidon, and metellosauris. And

42:01

other animals that lived around the

42:03

same time place include fish, turtles,

42:05

crocodilions, and terrors. And for our

42:07

fun fact, like I said at

42:09

the beginning of the episode, bony

42:11

ridges in soripod tail bones may

42:14

have helped them use their tails

42:16

as a weapon or to signal

42:18

to other soropods. There was a

42:20

2024 study that found bony ridges

42:22

in the neural canals of soropods,

42:24

as well as two Therapods, a

42:27

Thyryophoran and a thiophoranosaurin, and a

42:29

hadrosaur. A neural canal is a

42:31

space or system of spaces in

42:33

the vertebrae that forms the canal

42:35

of the spinal cord and the

42:37

spinal cord passes through the neural

42:40

canal tube. So it's related to

42:42

the nervous system and can tell

42:44

us a bit about an animal's

42:46

movement and behavior. Larger neural canals

42:48

can mean more nervous system tissue

42:50

in that area and if for

42:53

example there's more nervous system tissue

42:55

in the arms, that can mean

42:57

the animal used its arms more

42:59

compared to animals with less nervous

43:01

system tissue in the arms. Yeah,

43:03

if you're having a difficult time

43:06

imagining where the neural canal is

43:08

it's basically in our vertebrae We've

43:10

got the round part with the

43:12

disks that some people call them

43:14

where you'll feel like slip a

43:16

disc That's what's shifting. That's what

43:19

the cartilage is in between and

43:21

all that and then there's the

43:23

neural arch that on us is

43:25

facing outwards from our back on

43:27

dinosaurs that faced up and in

43:30

between those two there's a gap

43:32

And in younger dinosaurs, those two

43:34

bones aren't fused yet, but in

43:36

older dinosaurs, just like in older

43:38

humans, those fused completely together, making

43:40

an actual canal, like covered in

43:43

solid bone on all sides. Yes.

43:45

So you're saying that there's bony

43:47

ridges in those canals? Yes, and

43:49

the authors started this study because

43:51

back in 2020, the scientists who

43:53

described the soripod... Abderainarus found bony

43:56

ridges and suggested that they were

43:58

neurocannal ridges in the tailbones. So

44:00

they they looked

44:02

at a bunch

44:05

of dinosaurs, cedisaurus,

44:07

haplicanthosaurus, apatosaurus, depotiscus, camarosaurs, rachiosaurus,

44:10

to name a few of the sauropods,

44:12

but then there was also a few of

44:14

the sauropods, but then there was also and an indeterminate

44:18

covering all the dinosaurs. Yeah.

44:21

They found that the bony ridges were

44:23

only in the They found the caudal

44:25

vertebrae and that long and they vary

44:27

in size and position. Similar

44:29

bony ridges have been found in

44:31

some modern modern ray fin fish, lung fish,

44:33

and amphibians, and and they're known

44:35

to be bony spinal cord supports.

44:37

So it's So it's unclear what

44:39

the dinosaurs were using these bony ridges

44:42

for. But in it maybe it

44:44

helped keep the spinal cord stable while

44:46

moving the tail, tail, especially as a

44:48

weapon or for signaling to other sauropods.

44:50

soropods. With With all of these dinosaurs,

44:52

the the are anchored to to paired cottofemoralis

44:54

muscles that retracted the thigh thigh

44:56

while walking and running. running. So

44:59

maybe the stresses on the tail

45:01

from moving were enough that it

45:03

needed these spinal cord these spinal cord Or

45:05

maybe they were for, what did you

45:07

for, what did you say, display? Or weaponry?

45:09

Or yeah. yeah. But in any

45:11

any event it would be an

45:13

anchoring point for those things, not

45:15

that the dinosaurs could see the

45:17

small bit of bone deep inside

45:20

the neural canal of another dinosaur's

45:22

tail. True. True. True, true.

45:24

And And that wraps up this

45:26

episode of Einodino. Thank you so much

45:28

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