In this episode Jess chats with Prof Mark Swilling about his module called Applied Economics, which covers South Africa's political economy and how it has evolved historically. Mark co-facilitates the module with Dr Nthabiseng Mohlakoana, with whom he has also recently co-developed an alternative economic framework centred around post-COVID recovery, commissioned by Prof Thuli Madonsela. Jess and Mark also chat about the next phase of Mark's work focused on the building of a general non-equilibrium model of economics, which he will be doing at Georgetown University. The big question Mark is asking in his work is how to reconcile complexity with directionality in the world today. 

Some readings recommended by Mark: 

• "Shadow of Liberation: Contestation and Compromise in the Economic and Social Policy of the African National Congress, 1943-1996" by Robert Van Niekerk and Vishnu Padayachee
• "Building State Capability: Evidence, Analysis, Action" by Lant Pritchett, Matt Andrews, and Michael Woolcock
• "The Transformation of Intimacy: Sexuality, Love, and Eroticism in Modern Societies" by Anthony Giddens