0:00

Hi everyone, it's Rachel. I think

0:02

we can all agree that parenting a

0:05

child with learning and thinking differences is

0:07

no easy task. And sometimes you just

0:09

need a quick answer and some advice

0:12

you can really trust. That's where the

0:14

understood assistant comes in. It's a free,

0:16

easy-to-use chat tool that gives you quick

0:19

answers tailored to your questions. From navigating

0:21

IEPs and 504 plans to helping your

0:23

child manage their emotions, all answers are

0:26

based on understood expert vetted content and

0:28

designed to support your unique needs. Go

0:30

to understood.org slash Ask to give it a try,

0:32

or visit the link in the show notes. Hello

0:42

and welcome to In It, a

0:44

podcast for families with kids who

0:46

learn and think differently. Here you'll

0:48

find advice, camaraderie, stories of successes,

0:50

and yes, sometimes failures from experts

0:52

and from parents and caregivers like

0:54

you. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a former

0:57

classroom teacher and an editor here

0:59

at Understood.org. And I'm Rachel Bozek,

1:01

a writer, a writer, editor, and

1:03

mom who has definitely been in

1:05

it. Today on the show we're

1:07

doing something a little different. And

1:09

Rachel, it mostly involves you. So

1:11

I'll let you explain. Yes.

1:13

So this week I'm co-hosting

1:16

an episode we recorded with

1:18

our friends from the awesome

1:20

podcast Shining with ADHD, which

1:22

is put out by the

1:24

Childhood Collective. Shining with ADHD

1:26

is made by Katie Severson,

1:28

Lori Long, and Mallory Ye,

1:30

who are ADHD professionals and

1:33

parents. Each week they share

1:35

inspiration and tips for tackling

1:37

challenging behaviors, building executive functioning

1:39

skills, managing big emotions. That

1:41

sounds fun and a lot

1:44

like us, right? So for

1:46

our collaboration, I talked with

1:48

one of their co-hosts, Mallory.

1:50

And in addition to being

1:52

a mom and a podcast

1:55

host, she's also a licensed

1:57

psychologist specializing in kids with

1:59

ADHD. really wanted to get into

2:01

is how we manage those times

2:03

where our personal and professional lives

2:06

meet. Rachel you and I talk

2:08

about this a lot behind the

2:10

scenes right like what we feel

2:12

like we can or should share

2:14

on Mike. Yes, or should not.

2:16

So it was great to talk

2:18

with someone else who also grapples

2:20

with that. And even if you're

2:22

not a podcast host, but say

2:24

a parent or caregiver of a

2:26

kid who learns and thinks differently,

2:28

I think a lot of this

2:30

conversation will speak to you. All

2:32

right, let's listen. Hi Rachel, I'm

2:35

so excited that we're having this

2:37

conversation today. Me too. It's so

2:39

great to meet you too. Well

2:41

Rachel, I think that What we're

2:43

here to talk about is really

2:45

important and I think that it

2:47

might shed a little light for

2:49

our parents on what's going on

2:51

on this side of the mic.

2:53

I was thinking about this conversation

2:55

that we were going to have

2:57

today actually when I was talking

2:59

with a friend just yesterday. I

3:02

feel like this happens a lot

3:04

for me. I'll be talking with

3:06

a friend. A lot of my

3:08

friends have kids with ADHD. I'll

3:10

be talking with a friend and

3:12

I'll think Gosh, my listeners would

3:14

really relate to this. I've got

3:16

to tell this story or I

3:18

have this personal story that I

3:20

got to share. I know they're

3:22

really going to relate to it.

3:24

Yes, I definitely have had that

3:26

experience and I also have kind

3:29

of the flipper experience where we'll

3:31

be talking about something on the

3:33

podcast and I'll be like, oh,

3:35

I can think of like five

3:37

people who have to make sure

3:39

here about this conversation. So much

3:41

of it is relatable. I've even

3:43

found that so much of what

3:45

we talk about, and I think

3:47

this is the case on your

3:49

podcast as well, can really apply

3:51

to everybody. There's definitely specifics that

3:53

we get into, you know, for

3:56

addressing certain stumbling box that you

3:58

run into at school and in

4:00

family dynamics, but also a lot

4:02

of it can be just kind

4:04

of universally applied to, you know,

4:06

kids growing up and parents. learning

4:08

how to do the parenting. I

4:10

think you're right because deep down

4:12

as parents we we all have

4:14

very similar goals right we want

4:16

to feel like we're doing a

4:18

good job parenting we want to

4:20

feel like we're meeting our child's

4:23

needs we want them to grow

4:25

into amazing individuals so at the

4:27

core we all have the same

4:29

goals for our kids but when

4:31

you're raising a child who thinks

4:33

or learns differently a child who

4:35

has ADHD you are encountering things

4:37

different than maybe what your friends

4:39

are experiencing if they're not raising

4:41

a child who thinks or learns

4:43

differently. And it can feel really

4:45

isolating. And that's one of the

4:47

reasons that I love coming on

4:50

our podcast and sharing personal experiences

4:52

because I really want parents to

4:54

know that they're not alone. and

4:56

a lot of this, that they're

4:58

not the only parent who has

5:00

had this struggle. Their child is

5:02

not the only child who's ever

5:04

had this struggle before, because I

5:06

think there's so much power in

5:08

knowing that you aren't alone. Yeah,

5:10

I totally agree. And I have

5:12

seen that just even in having

5:14

conversations with teachers who will maybe

5:17

reveal in the middle of a

5:19

conversation where you're... especially if it's

5:21

someone that you've just met, you

5:23

know, it's like early in the

5:25

school year and you're kind of

5:27

like, I don't know if this

5:29

person is going to get it

5:31

or if they're going to get

5:33

me or if they're going to

5:35

get my kid. And then they're

5:37

like, oh, actually, you know, my

5:39

daughter has ADHD and you realize

5:41

that like, you know, there's not

5:44

always the case. And So that's

5:46

I think helps a lot. And

5:48

then I've also found that some,

5:50

in some cases, for teachers or

5:52

people who kind of like need

5:54

to know for whatever reason about

5:56

your child, they're really curious and

5:58

they're kind of like, oh, you

6:00

can tell me about this. And

6:02

sometimes that's when the imposter syndrome

6:04

sets in and I do the

6:06

thing where I'm like, oh, actually

6:08

I almost a podcast about this.

6:11

And then I'm like, oh, I

6:13

shouldn't have told her that. And

6:15

now she doesn't think I really

6:17

know stuff. But it definitely opens

6:19

up the conversation and it makes

6:21

it easier to talk about. Absolutely.

6:23

And then there are also the

6:25

experiences and we've talked about this

6:27

a little bit on in it,

6:29

like that realization that there is

6:31

also still a lot of learning.

6:33

for people to do out in

6:35

the world and a lot of

6:38

awareness and sometimes it's generational and

6:40

sometimes it's just people don't know

6:42

what they don't know and so

6:44

I try to help them find

6:46

out but I think you guys

6:48

do too. Yeah one way that

6:50

we try to show up for

6:52

these families these listeners who are

6:54

raising kids who think and learn

6:56

differently is by sharing personal stories.

6:58

when we do that that's what's

7:00

happening for me too so that's

7:02

something that we really love to

7:05

do is to share experiences because

7:07

again that gives families a sense

7:09

of they're not alone. Other people

7:11

are going through this but yeah

7:13

as podcast hosts too and we

7:15

kind of tow this fine line

7:17

of wanting to share these experiences

7:19

because we know they're really resonating

7:21

with families but also respecting our

7:23

children's privacy and also keeping some

7:25

of our lives private and so

7:27

it's kind of this fine balance

7:29

between wanting you know Both of

7:32

us we're in we're in this

7:34

business because we want to help

7:36

families. We want to help parents

7:38

we want to help kids and

7:40

we know that this is helping

7:42

them, but how do we safely

7:44

divulge information, share stories while respecting

7:46

our family's privacy? I don't know

7:48

if you've figured out the perfect

7:50

formula for that. Well, one thing

7:52

that has really been awesome, that

7:54

is I think just sort of

7:56

a built-in part of what in

7:59

it is and what it's all

8:01

about, is we interview experts all

8:03

the time and they often bring

8:05

the examples to the table. And

8:07

I do find just what you

8:09

just said that happens to me

8:11

all the time where I'm like,

8:13

wait, were you in my kitchen

8:15

this morning? Like that happens, I

8:17

feel like almost every time we

8:19

record to some extent. And sometimes

8:21

I say that and sometimes I

8:23

gave it to myself and it

8:26

might depend on the nature of

8:28

the example. But yeah, that walking

8:30

that line is really important to

8:32

me. And I think for it's

8:34

important to everybody. we've talked to

8:36

you know a lot of times

8:38

we'll have people call in or

8:40

you know share their own experiences

8:42

and do it rather anonymously which

8:44

makes sense you know it doesn't

8:46

matter who they are you know

8:48

there's someone that everybody else can

8:50

relate to who's listening and that's

8:53

really like ultimately the point exactly

8:55

and I think that a question

8:57

that I ask myself and I

8:59

know my co-hosts Katie and Lori

9:01

we ask ourselves what is the

9:03

reason we're sharing this story we're

9:05

not really sharing our stories for

9:07

the purpose of like venting or

9:09

complaining in some, it's cathartic in

9:11

some ways, but I wouldn't call

9:13

it, we're not getting on there

9:15

to like really complain and we're

9:17

not speaking negatively about our children,

9:20

we're not speaking negatively about our

9:22

spouses or our child's school, but

9:24

when we ask ourselves, should I

9:26

share this personal story, we're usually

9:28

selecting those stories that we're like,

9:30

there's a really great lesson in

9:32

this, like there's... There's a really

9:34

great message that can come from

9:36

the story that we know people

9:38

are going to relate to and

9:40

it's a really great teaching moment.

9:42

Yeah, I think that's really true.

9:44

Do you ever felt like you've

9:47

gotten into a situation? where you

9:49

have over shared said too much.

9:51

That's happened once in a while,

9:53

but I have to say like

9:55

we have a really great editor

9:57

who's wonderful and and very aware

9:59

of and kind of like plugged

10:01

into any concerns like that. And

10:03

also I often find that like

10:05

when I let it sit for

10:07

a minute or like a day.

10:09

I feel better about it, you

10:11

know, than I really thought that

10:14

I would. Sometimes it's just like

10:16

an experience or an example of

10:18

something that happened like on vacation

10:20

a few years ago and then

10:22

when it happened it was like,

10:24

oh my God, I can't ever

10:26

tell anyone about this. And then

10:28

when you're kind of retelling the

10:30

story, you know, like four years

10:32

later, that's the point, you know,

10:34

where you say like someday this

10:36

will be funny. Right. Exactly. all

10:38

the time with my kids. The

10:40

reminder, someday we're going to laugh

10:43

about this. Right. Some day at

10:45

your wedding I'm going to tell

10:47

this story. Some day we'll laugh

10:49

about this. I use that coping

10:51

thought all the time. That's funny.

10:53

And it is that coping thought

10:55

all the time. That's funny. And

10:57

it is kind of a relief

10:59

because then I'm like, oh I

11:01

guess I'm here now. I guess

11:03

that thing is funny now because

11:05

it was that funny one. a

11:07

lot of our listeners can really

11:10

appreciate what you were saying kind

11:12

of, you know, great editing on

11:14

the back end. There are probably

11:16

our stories that we've all shared

11:18

that in the end didn't make

11:20

it to air, but I think

11:22

that our listeners probably can respect

11:24

that because I know a lot

11:26

of them want the same for

11:28

their kids' privacy. I know this

11:30

because even on our social media

11:32

channels, sometimes, you know, we'll ask

11:34

people to comment your experience or

11:37

like, let us to send you

11:39

this guide and rather than like

11:41

commenting. on the actual post where

11:43

other people could see it they

11:45

send us a message privately and

11:47

are saying hey I really would

11:49

like that guide I didn't want

11:51

to comment on the post though

11:53

just in case someone I know

11:55

saw it. So I know that

11:57

a lot of parents, a lot

11:59

of our listeners out there are

12:01

also testing out their comfort level

12:04

and what they're putting into the

12:06

world, the digital footprint they're leaving

12:08

to for their kids. Yeah, as

12:10

you said that, you know, people

12:12

sometimes go behind the curtain to

12:14

make a request, it reminded me

12:16

of something that I've talked a

12:18

little bit about, you know, with

12:20

the INIT team is like that

12:22

line between. considering your family's privacy

12:24

and being respectful of that. And

12:26

then also the idea of the

12:28

stigma and making that go away.

12:31

And I'm like, oh, am I

12:33

contributing to that by not sharing?

12:35

And it's like you have to

12:37

also just, you know, find what you're

12:39

comfortable with because we're just like. humans

12:41

trying to make an episode. But I

12:44

do think that that is something, that

12:46

definitely crosses my mind a lot, you

12:48

know, where it's like the greater good

12:51

and I think it is really important

12:53

for people who don't get it going

12:55

back to the like, do they get it

12:57

or not, to, it may help them get it

12:59

a little bit more if we can talk

13:01

about it a little bit openly, but

13:03

at the same time it's like, well,

13:05

my kids have a comfort zone and

13:07

that might not be where they are

13:09

where they are, And so it's just always

13:12

finding that balance. Yeah, yeah, that

13:14

is a really great point you bring

13:16

up that if there are things that

13:18

we're not sharing is that contributing to

13:20

the stigma, like why, like if you're

13:22

not sharing it, does that mean it's

13:24

something to be ashamed of? Right. Or

13:27

is it just a matter of privacy?

13:29

And sometimes it's one and sometimes it's

13:31

the other. Yeah. a conversation

13:33

that I have with a lot

13:35

of my friends. It's funny, we

13:38

have this joke. Sometimes they'll be

13:40

like, well, what do you think,

13:42

Mallory? Like, just asking as a

13:45

friend. And then they'll be like,

13:47

but what would Dr. Mallory say?

13:49

What would Dr. Mallory tell me

13:52

in this situation? And is the

13:54

answer different? Sometimes it's going

13:56

to tell you what the

13:59

evidence says. what you really should

14:01

be doing, but as a parent who's

14:03

in it, I have like a new

14:05

respect for what is really reasonable for

14:08

parents and what. What I can really

14:10

expect them to try. So sometimes the

14:13

answers are different, yeah. And I think

14:15

I think back to baby Mallory

14:17

in her 20s and 30s when I

14:19

was a practicing psychologist still seeing patients

14:22

before I had kids and I laugh

14:24

a little bit. I giggle a little

14:26

bit about what I used to tell

14:29

parents to do because now as

14:31

a parent who's in it, I'm like,

14:33

I would never. I wouldn't tell parent

14:35

that anymore. I wouldn't make that suggestion

14:38

or I'd have like a lot of

14:40

like disclaimers. If you're going to try

14:42

this, I joke that at that

14:44

point I had the book smarts, but

14:47

I didn't have the street smarts. So

14:49

now I got the book and the

14:51

street smarts. And it definitely has changed

14:54

the way that I am a professional

14:56

being a parent, being in it. I'm

14:58

a different professional. And then of course

15:01

my professional life has influenced my

15:03

parenting as well. I'm not sure if

15:05

you feel the same. Well I was

15:07

thinking about that because we had a

15:10

guest on recently where we were talking

15:12

about kind of like best practices with

15:14

like bribing and to try to

15:16

get things to happen. We were talking

15:19

about hygiene and at the end of

15:21

the day I can't remember if this

15:23

is exactly right, but I think it

15:26

was basically like should we offer a

15:28

reward for like... brushing teeth. And the

15:30

cusp was basically like, please don't do

15:33

that. And I was like, I've

15:35

never done that. And that's that sort

15:37

of like, yes, the best practice and

15:39

the advice from a professional would be

15:42

like that that is not a good

15:44

road to go down for all of

15:46

the reasons that we totally know.

15:48

It's a very slippery slope when you

15:51

start rewarding things that should just be

15:53

happening. But then the reality is also

15:55

like, I need my kid to brush

15:58

their teeth. And I need that to

16:00

check. conversation to be over. Yeah. And

16:02

so it is, I think that those

16:05

two things kind of collide for

16:07

me a lot. Because I know the

16:09

answer, the quote right answer, but the

16:11

reality is like that doesn't mean that

16:14

that's what's happening in my house. You

16:16

still got to get out the morning,

16:18

right? Because you got to get

16:20

to work and they can't be late

16:23

again. Yeah. There's, it's, there's real life.

16:25

Right. Well, I actually want to go

16:27

back to your example of how Dr.

16:30

Mallory might answer a question differently than

16:32

how Mom Mallory would. So do you

16:34

have any examples of a time where

16:37

that has happened? Yeah. So let's

16:39

see. Thinking back to times where I

16:41

kind of like cringe a little bit

16:43

about what I maybe would have said

16:46

before I was a parent when I

16:48

was, you know, seeing patients in therapy,

16:50

I think that I probably had

16:52

unrealistic expectations of parents when it comes

16:55

to like... how much time they actually

16:57

have or energy they actually have and

16:59

I would focus more on giving them

17:02

things like the biggest bang for your

17:04

buck. So thinking about like systems

17:06

I would have put in place or

17:08

routines I would have put in place

17:11

like it's easy from an outsider's perspective

17:13

especially before you have kids to be

17:15

like oh. Here's the perfect schedule for

17:18

you. If you just follow these steps,

17:20

your child will be completely independent and

17:22

you'll have your mornings back and

17:24

you'll have hot coffee again, right? Now

17:27

as a parent, I'm like, no, we

17:29

need to figure out what is the

17:31

bare minimum level of support that your

17:34

child needs to have that successful morning.

17:36

So I think that now as

17:38

a parent and professionals, we just have

17:40

a lot more realistic expectations of parents

17:43

have a huge mental load. They're raising

17:45

kids that think and learn differently. They're

17:47

raising kids with ADHD. They're thinking about

17:50

a lot. Their kids might be struggling

17:52

at school. They might be struggling with

17:54

challenging behaviors at home. That's occupying

17:56

a lot of their minds. Like we

17:59

really need to be mindful of like

18:01

how much parents can take on and

18:03

helping them do it bit by bit

18:06

because we know what evidence based. We

18:08

know what strategy. work, but how

18:10

can we really make this practical for

18:12

families with an eye towards these families

18:15

are struggling in a lot of ways?

18:17

They're overloaded in a lot of ways.

18:19

So how can we give them the

18:22

strategies that are going to make the

18:24

biggest difference in their lives and kind

18:26

of leave all the fluff out?

18:28

What do we really need? What do

18:31

I really need to know? So this

18:33

was so great. I'm so happy that

18:35

we got to have this conversation today.

18:38

Me too. I'm so glad that our

18:40

listeners get to find out about

18:42

INIT. And I'm so glad that INIT

18:44

listeners are going to get maybe their

18:47

first taste of shining with ADHD today.

18:49

Thanks so much for listening today. If

18:51

you have any thoughts about the episode,

18:54

we'd love to hear from you. You

18:56

can email us at INIT at Understood.org.

18:58

And check out the show notes

19:00

for this episode, where we have more

19:03

resources and links to anything we mentioned.

19:05

This show is brought to you by

19:07

Understood.org. Understood is a non-profit organization dedicated

19:10

to empowering people with learning and thinking

19:12

differences like ADHD and dyslexia. If

19:14

you'd like to help us continue this

19:16

work, donate at Understood.org/Give. Anna is produced

19:19

and edited by Julie Subrin, with additional

19:21

production support from Cody Nelson and Ash

19:23

Beecher. Justin D. Wright mixes the show

19:26

and Mike Erica wrote our theme

19:28

music. Brianna Berry is our production director,

19:30

Neil Drumming is our editorial director. From

19:32

Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura Key,

19:35

Scott Koshier, and Seth Melnick. Thanks for

19:37

listening. And thanks for always being in

19:39

it with us.