0:03

Hello and welcome to In It,

0:05

a podcast for families with kids

0:08

who learn and think differently. Here

0:10

you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories of

0:12

successes, and yes, sometimes failures from

0:14

experts and from parents and caregivers

0:16

like you. I'm Gretchen Vierstra, a

0:18

former classroom teacher and an editor

0:20

here at Understood.org. And I'm Rachel

0:22

Bozek, a writer, a writer, editor,

0:24

and mom who has definitely been

0:26

in it. Today, we're bringing you

0:28

some hot tips on how to

0:30

advocate for your kid with learning

0:32

and thinking differences from a parent

0:34

advocate. Danielle Ward's been a parent

0:36

advocate for her own kids for

0:38

over a decade. Now she does

0:40

it professionally. Her company, Encompass Parent

0:43

Solutions, provides non-legal parent advocacy, support,

0:45

and education council for families of

0:47

kids with learning differences. We're delighted

0:50

that she agreed to come on

0:52

the show to share some of

0:54

that council. Hello ladies, it's so

0:57

lovely to chat with you today.

0:59

Let's kind of start with the

1:01

basics. What is a parent

1:04

advocate? A parent advocate is

1:06

basically a champion for

1:08

parents. What we do

1:10

is help families navigate

1:12

pretty complicated systems in

1:14

education and we help

1:16

them understand their rights

1:18

in the processes that

1:20

go into special education.

1:23

That seems like a necessary role

1:25

for sure. Having worked in a

1:27

public school for many years, I

1:29

know that special education can be

1:31

very complicated. So what are some

1:33

typical scenarios where a family might

1:35

bring you on? Can you give

1:38

us a few concrete examples? Yes,

1:40

there's a few ways families reach

1:42

out and many times it's when

1:44

it's a crisis, right? So their

1:46

child is really struggling in school

1:48

and they... heard that maybe an

1:50

intervention team is helping or they

1:52

recommended that their child be evaluated

1:54

and they don't understand what the

1:57

process is for that. So it's

1:59

really helping. to explain the systems

2:01

for a lot of families, you

2:03

know, when they're just being introduced.

2:05

Also, I have families that reach

2:08

out to us for, they have

2:10

had an IEP for a long

2:12

time and things, so it seems

2:14

to be progressing or they want

2:17

to revisit the goals in the

2:19

IEP or they're struggling with some

2:21

of the interventions that are being

2:23

used or the instruction. So for

2:26

a dyslexic child, maybe they're not

2:28

progressing in their reading and the

2:30

family needs help trying to navigate

2:33

for a different intervention.

2:35

So how did you get into this work?

2:37

I have two children that are

2:39

now grown and flown, but two

2:42

children with learning and thinking differences,

2:44

and I have been advocating for

2:46

their, you know, supports in school

2:49

since they were really little. I was

2:51

lucky that... I had really strong teachers when

2:53

they were young and they noticed signs

2:55

right away. So I was able to

2:57

get an IEP for both kids really

2:59

young, but that first meeting I was

3:02

floored. There was all these people across

3:04

the table. I didn't know what they

3:06

were doing and why they were there.

3:08

And there was all these documents and

3:10

this evaluation that was done. I had

3:12

no idea about any of that process.

3:15

So I started to learn. all I

3:17

could learn about IEPs and children's disabilities.

3:19

I took all that knowledge

3:21

and started support groups for

3:23

my local schools and that

3:25

kind of blossomed into working

3:28

more one-on-one with families down

3:30

the road. I did work

3:32

at Understood previously as well

3:34

in the communication side, so

3:36

a lot of my communication

3:38

skills. are being used every

3:41

day in advocacy. So, you

3:43

know, meetings, agenda, etiquette, coaching

3:45

families on gathering their points

3:47

before they go to a meeting,

3:49

their key messages that they want to

3:51

share. Yeah, I mean, let's face it,

3:54

we know that sometimes half of the

3:56

battle can be how you

3:58

present information, how talk about

4:00

it how you ask about it

4:02

and when you're so emotional and

4:05

really tied to all the challenges

4:07

it can be hard to present

4:09

things in the best way. 100%

4:11

and I know even with advocating

4:14

for my own children I would

4:16

get emotional and I'm like why

4:18

am I getting so emotional because

4:20

you are Mama Bear Papa Bear

4:22

and you are going to defend

4:25

your children to the you know

4:27

andth degree and you feel that

4:29

you have to fight for your

4:31

rights. And it shouldn't feel that

4:34

way. It should be more collaborative

4:36

with the school. And that's what

4:38

I try to bring to the

4:40

table. So I help lower the

4:42

temperature if there's conflict and allow

4:45

them to communicate better. That's the

4:47

number one reason parents the advocates

4:49

is the communication that's been broken.

4:51

And then feathers are ruffled and

4:54

now we're starting to take action

4:56

and might be litigious. We do

4:58

not want. that to escalate. So

5:00

we want the school and the

5:02

families to collaborate together as best

5:05

as they can. So how do

5:07

you know then if you can

5:09

benefit from hiring a parent advocate

5:11

or if you actually might need

5:14

a lawyer? Right. We do not

5:16

practice law, but we are very

5:18

familiar with the nuances in both

5:20

laws as the IDEA and the

5:22

Rehabilitation Act Section 504. So we

5:25

understand. the process and the procedures

5:27

that schools and parents have to

5:29

navigate. Parents don't understand their rights

5:31

and so showing them the information

5:34

of how to access their rights

5:36

and I mean there's a tremendous

5:38

amount of resources understood that we

5:40

share often because it's in layman's

5:42

terms what's available from the Department

5:45

of Ed and our state institutions

5:47

are still very wonky legal ease.

5:49

So advocates... are aware of when

5:51

the process and the procedures are

5:54

going well and when it's broken

5:56

or there's been a compliance issue

5:58

and we can raise it we

6:00

can help families file complaints with

6:02

the state appropriately but we also

6:05

can present to attorneys. a case

6:07

that says, I've taken this as

6:09

far as I can, and now

6:11

it's time for an attorney counsel.

6:14

And we, as advocates, are trained,

6:16

I was trained under COPA, which

6:18

is the Council of Parent Attorneys

6:20

and Advocates. It's a national nonprofit

6:22

that their main focus is advocacy

6:25

training for parents and attorneys. And

6:27

we, the nuances on this, this

6:29

area is essential because if you

6:31

Take it a step too far,

6:34

you could be sued for practicing

6:36

law. And we don't want advocates

6:38

to do that. We have to

6:40

stay in our lane. And I

6:42

work with attorneys all the time.

6:45

I ask them lots of questions.

6:47

They're like, please call us all

6:49

the time. I think that's the

6:51

secret spot that we provide for

6:54

families. And if they have a

6:56

case. I think that attorney consult,

6:58

it's a one-hour session, is really

7:00

important to many families and they

7:03

don't know that they can do

7:05

that. Yeah. And you said, obviously

7:07

as a parent advocate, you understand

7:09

all of the laws and one

7:11

of those, I just want to

7:14

make sure we say it is

7:16

IDEA, which stands for Individuals with

7:18

Disabilities Education Act. That's correct. There

7:20

are two separate laws and of

7:23

course a lot of my job

7:25

is explaining the differences between a

7:27

504 and an IEP. I mean

7:29

all day long and it's also

7:31

hard for advocates to attend a

7:34

lot of 504 meetings. There is

7:36

a lot of I guess poor

7:38

judgments on districts that you know

7:40

they don't want all these people

7:43

attending these meetings with families and

7:45

I think that's a disservice because

7:47

families need support in navigating meetings

7:49

that are intimidating. Yeah that is

7:51

so true at 504 meetings my

7:54

experience with them while the the

7:56

teachers and administration who are there

7:58

have been super helpful I've been

8:00

really really lucky in our district

8:03

but it's like I go in

8:05

and it's my and then all

8:07

people from the school, anywhere from

8:09

like three to six. And then

8:11

it is that feeling of like,

8:14

well, do I want to like

8:16

fill up the room with more

8:18

people and like totally overwhelm my

8:20

kid if they're in the meeting?

8:23

And that can be a lot.

8:25

And I think another thing that

8:27

advocates really can bring to those

8:29

meetings is knowing when to introduce

8:31

the children into this advocacy road,

8:34

because they have to carry this

8:36

forward. The disabilities are. for life

8:38

for many children and they need

8:40

to understand how to navigate that

8:43

and many families want to shield

8:45

their children from this you know

8:47

adversity and animosity and yes certain

8:49

meetings absolutely the children shouldn't be

8:51

at and it should be at

8:54

age appropriate but I do in

8:56

New Jersey it's the age of

8:58

14 is when they can absolutely

9:00

start participating but I have many

9:03

friends and advocates that started their

9:05

children much younger and it's reaped

9:07

great rewards because hearing it from

9:09

their children themselves, what's going on,

9:11

is very powerful in the meeting.

9:14

Danielle, we thought it could be

9:16

useful to toss a few scenarios

9:18

your way. Situations, parents, or caregivers

9:20

might find themselves in and see

9:23

what sort of advice you might

9:25

give them. You're putting me on

9:27

the hot seat, Rachel. Hot seat

9:29

time. It's done. Okay. So let's

9:31

say your child is struggling in

9:34

school and no one seems to

9:36

be doing anything about it and

9:38

you feel kind of lost. Who

9:40

do you turn to or what

9:43

can you do first? The first

9:45

step should always be the teacher.

9:47

A meeting or start with an

9:49

email just when to get an

9:51

update with progress and then the

9:54

next step would be I always

9:56

reach out to either a counselor.

9:58

At the school, depending on what

10:00

age they are, the guidance counselors

10:03

and the social work teams usually

10:05

are amazing advocates to help families

10:07

navigate the systems. and also there

10:09

are also the team members that

10:12

do any kind of interventions that

10:14

happen in the school. Interventions in

10:16

a positive manner, families don't know

10:18

what that is. So when you

10:20

have struggling with reading, for example,

10:23

they have a team that will

10:25

come in and do assessments and

10:27

training or one-on-one work with your

10:29

child. So those kinds of systems

10:32

are usually with the guidance and

10:34

the social work teams. And then

10:36

if they don't get any elevation

10:38

with that, then we go to

10:40

the principal. You reach out and

10:43

you ask for... a meeting to

10:45

work on finding ways to support

10:47

your childhood struggling. Okay, here's another

10:49

one. Let's say your child has

10:52

been diagnosed with dyslexia or ADHD,

10:54

so you have this diagnosis and

10:56

you're not sure exactly what happens

10:58

next. Who are you supposed to

11:00

talk to in that scenario? Yes,

11:03

and this is like the million

11:05

dollar scenario because this happens a

11:07

lot. Parents assume that they have

11:09

a diagnosis from a doctor or

11:12

a therapist and they just need

11:14

to bring it to school and

11:16

the nurse is going to stamp

11:18

it and then it's going to

11:20

you're going to get an IEP.

11:23

That's not at all how it

11:25

works. Unfortunately, not every diagnosis allows

11:27

the child to have access to

11:29

an IEP or a 504. You

11:32

actually have to have a criteria

11:34

in every school district. different unique

11:36

formula of a discrepancy between your

11:38

ability to learn and where you

11:40

are performing. And that gap is

11:43

what is being evaluated to see

11:45

if you need specific instruction or

11:47

you need related services or supports.

11:49

So that process is a written

11:52

letter that a parent has to

11:54

write. either in an email or

11:56

a letter. Some school districts are

11:58

still making parents print out a

12:00

letter and walk it in to

12:03

the Board of Education. There's a

12:05

process and every website for your

12:07

school district should be laid out

12:09

the process for requesting an evaluation

12:12

eligibility. meeting for either a 504

12:14

or an IEP. Okay, so you've

12:16

got to take your diagnosis and

12:18

write a letter. Right a letter.

12:20

All right. Then you have to

12:23

follow up. Exactly. Because once you

12:25

send the letter, they have 20

12:27

days to respond. They have to

12:29

respond and you actually have to

12:32

have a meeting to discuss your

12:34

request. Got it. You mentioned that

12:36

your mission as a parent advocate

12:38

is to help families communicate with

12:40

schools better. Yes. Besides helping them

12:43

communicate more clearly, it is part

12:45

of this also about helping them

12:47

with the emotions that are coming

12:49

up around the situation. Like for

12:52

example, if a parent emails the

12:54

teacher with a question because they're

12:56

concerned about how their child is

12:58

doing in the class and they

13:01

feel like their response is rude

13:03

or not to their liking, and

13:05

now they're angry and upset, does

13:07

that come into play in all

13:09

this? It's a great observation, Rachel,

13:12

and it 100% does. And it's

13:14

a lot of our work in

13:16

our training as advocates is understanding

13:18

what is a real issue and

13:21

what is hurt feelings and ego

13:23

bruising. I want to say 80%

13:25

of what families bring to me

13:27

is emotional drama with personalities. There's

13:29

20% of an issue here that

13:32

we have to address. We spend

13:34

a lot of our time coaching

13:36

families because there is a lot

13:38

of micromanaging of teachers and children.

13:41

Parents have want too much control.

13:43

I do speak to a lot

13:45

of families about you need to

13:47

know and trust the systems and

13:49

the teachers know what they're doing.

13:52

And when that breakdown of trust

13:54

happens and you try to micromanage

13:56

a teacher, it's going to be

13:58

a very difficult road for you

14:01

to advocate. Yeah. So then, let's

14:03

say you have been responding and

14:05

maybe even like freaking out or

14:07

over reacting if it is apparent

14:09

and now your relationship with the...

14:12

teacher or your contact at the

14:14

school is not so great. How

14:16

do you get it back on

14:18

track? Definitely hire an advocate because

14:21

you need someone who is not

14:23

emotionally attached to either party but

14:25

is trained to collaborate and to

14:27

mediate appropriately so that we move

14:29

the conversation forward and we can.

14:32

find resolution together. I often spend

14:34

time with families before those meetings

14:36

to have them sit down and

14:38

prepare their parent concerns ahead of

14:41

time, bring a little snapshot of

14:43

their child, you know, their strengths

14:45

of the child, the challenges they're

14:47

seeing at home. That redirects the

14:49

narrative back to the child and

14:52

why we're there and not all

14:54

this bad behavior. between personalities, the

14:56

teacher, the parents, the administrators. Sometimes

14:58

we can't resolve that in a

15:01

meeting and then we have to

15:03

go to actual mediation, which is

15:05

actually an excellent process that is

15:07

free for families and allows the

15:09

parent and the school district to

15:12

meet with an unbiased, usually it's

15:14

a judge or trained mediator who

15:16

actually can help resolve conflict. and

15:18

have resolution, you know, and move

15:21

onward. And families feel like they

15:23

were heard, they were seen, and

15:25

now we can move on. But

15:27

it sounds like really families need

15:29

to try to take a deep

15:32

breath. And when they write and

15:34

communicate with the school to try

15:36

to do so in a way,

15:38

like not filled with emotions, right?

15:41

That seems to be the best

15:43

way to avoid everything going south.

15:45

Yes, and it's hard to do

15:47

because when you get on an

15:49

email, you want to like... pour

15:52

it all out and it's really

15:54

inappropriate. So I always ask my

15:56

families, you know, write it all

15:58

out to me, send it to

16:01

me first, send it to a

16:03

friend first, and then give it

16:05

24 hours and then take a

16:07

look at it with a... clear

16:10

ahead because you can probably cut

16:12

that down a third and maybe

16:14

make it a little bit more

16:16

professional. You know families get really

16:18

upset and they they don't want

16:21

to be nice and I get

16:23

it there they're they're really hurt

16:25

and we've as parents with kids

16:27

who are learning disabilities we know

16:30

we've walked in their shoes and

16:32

so it's really hard when you're

16:34

in it. Yes. person that has

16:36

your back that can help navigate

16:38

that for you and it can

16:41

be a friend you know and

16:43

a grandparent whatever but it really

16:45

give yourself 24 hours and some

16:47

grace before you hit send. I

16:50

appreciate this too from the teacher

16:52

side I will tell you that

16:54

when I would open my inbox

16:56

and it would be filled with

16:58

emails from parents if I'm going

17:01

to triage right and like who

17:03

can I who can I reply

17:05

back to first and solve the

17:07

problems for first I'm not going

17:10

to go to the one that's

17:12

a wall attacks you guys. That's

17:14

right. Know your audience. You know

17:16

your audience. So hiring a lawyer

17:18

as we know is very expensive.

17:21

Yes. Hiring a parent advocate might

17:23

be out of reach too. So.

17:25

Maybe you can help us figure

17:27

out some things that parents can

17:30

do on their own before they

17:32

turn to hiring a professional or

17:34

if it is just like not

17:36

an option for them. Yes, I

17:38

am a big proponent of having

17:41

families educated as much as they

17:43

can before they reach out to

17:45

an advocate. I am a huge

17:47

proponent of the parent training and

17:50

information centers in each state. Every

17:52

state has a parent training center

17:54

center center under IDEA. And this

17:56

state office is supposed to provide

17:58

free resources and training. Many offer

18:01

a like 800 number for families

18:03

to call when they're having crisis.

18:05

Usually it's at the bottom of

18:07

every IEP. That is a great

18:10

first place to get training. They

18:12

provide a lot of parent training

18:14

and resources and also they have

18:16

volunteer advocates, many of them. Other

18:18

great resources are looking at your

18:21

local schools special education parent advocacy

18:23

groups. They're called CPACs. I know.

18:25

special education and all the acronyms.

18:27

It is just madness. But CPACs,

18:30

most school districts have them and

18:32

they are volunteer special education parents

18:34

who have veterans in the in

18:36

the field, right? And so they're

18:38

a great first place to stop

18:41

for families to get some support.

18:43

They usually have the best resources,

18:45

you know, at their fingertips and

18:47

they want to share it because

18:50

an informed parent allows the process

18:52

to go so much more smoothly

18:54

for school districts. You know, when

18:56

families are struggling and it's clunky,

18:59

that's when systems break down. Can

19:01

you give our listeners some other

19:03

tips on do's and don'ts as

19:05

they prepare to maybe step up

19:07

their efforts to advocate for support

19:10

for their child at school? Yes.

19:12

Do get more informed about the

19:14

special education laws that you are

19:16

going to be navigating. So every

19:19

state has a parental rights. manual

19:21

that is produced by this Department

19:23

of Education. Parents should really reach

19:25

through that, ask questions, talk to

19:27

your case manager about it, or

19:30

your local CPACs, really get informed

19:32

on the process because that's your

19:34

procedural safeguards. These are what help

19:36

allow you to have power and

19:39

autonomy in the meeting. I also

19:41

want families to remember that in

19:43

those meetings, particularly the IEP meetings,

19:45

once you have one, you are

19:47

an actual... team member of that

19:50

IEP team. So your voice matters.

19:52

And once you start feeling that

19:54

you can act like it and

19:56

it will show up across the

19:59

table. Other tips for families, definitely

20:01

when they're sending emails to the

20:03

child study team or to their

20:05

teachers, please stop replying to the

20:07

long email chain. If you need

20:10

to track it for future documentation,

20:12

it gets lost. A big tenant

20:14

in advocacy is if it's not

20:16

written down, it did not happen.

20:19

So try and organize your emails

20:21

and your documents so that they're

20:23

easy to find. So that means

20:25

when you send an email, the

20:27

subject header is very specific. And

20:30

you make sure you're copying and

20:32

writing it to other correct people.

20:34

That's a huge issue. And a

20:36

lot of families, I coach them

20:39

to start a new email that's

20:41

just for your communication with the

20:43

special ed teams. That way, you

20:45

can track that one email separately

20:47

from your personal email and your

20:50

work email. Oh, like a separate

20:52

email address. Yes, they keep a

20:54

separate email address. So you can

20:56

just really start organizing your files

20:59

electronically and of course the IEP

21:01

binders. I'm a huge fan of

21:03

that. Please keep track of all

21:05

your IEPs and your documentation and

21:07

to bring it to the meetings.

21:10

I find a lot of families

21:12

don't come prepared and then they

21:14

can't advocate properly. I also think

21:16

families forget to include their pediatrician.

21:19

in this conversation. They don't reach

21:21

out to them to give them

21:23

updates on what's happening at school.

21:25

Pediatricians are another first responder to

21:27

families when kids are really struggling

21:30

because they can provide recommendations for

21:32

evaluations like with a neurologist or

21:34

a speech language therapist and a

21:36

lot of that's covered under your

21:39

insurance. I also like that to

21:41

be a parallel path when families

21:43

are advocating at schools because schools

21:45

can only evaluate so much. Families

21:48

also have to do a lot

21:50

of work to get a real

21:52

360 degree view of their child.

21:54

I love all these practical tips

21:56

you're giving us. You got any

21:59

more up your sleeve? I also

22:01

recommend that families always request to

22:03

record the meetings. You have to

22:05

do that in writing, at least

22:08

24 hours in advance. That's the

22:10

etiquette. Depending on your state, there

22:12

is restrictions to that. It has

22:14

to be, you know, 48 hours

22:16

and so on and so forth.

22:19

But it is federally mandated that

22:21

families can record their meetings. many

22:23

special ed attorneys will tell you

22:25

many families are using that and

22:28

that's also a great way to

22:30

take the notes for you right

22:32

now we have all these AI

22:34

yeah sources that they can record

22:36

the notes give you the summary

22:39

and that's smart and then after

22:41

those meetings you send a follow-up

22:43

email that says hi team so

22:45

glad we met this is what

22:48

I heard in the meeting today

22:50

and these are the action items

22:52

mm-hmm looking forward to teacher X

22:54

giving me this and social worker

22:56

Y doing this, you know, this

22:59

is how in writing you're moving

23:01

this process along and advocating. Can

23:03

you send the transcript? Yes. Like

23:05

attach find the transcript. You absolutely

23:08

can. You absolutely can. I like

23:10

everything people. That makes so much

23:12

sense because really like why would

23:14

anyone involved not want that, right?

23:16

Exactly. And in many. of these

23:19

cases, a parent may also have

23:21

ADHD and might not be like

23:23

running through this meeting with like,

23:25

they're not going to remember everything

23:28

that happened in the conversation. That

23:30

is like a thing we know,

23:32

right? And so when you're already

23:34

like hopped up on emotions and

23:36

maybe you have ADHD. The adrenaline

23:39

is going. Yeah. It is really

23:41

hard. And because that has that's

23:43

happened to me in meetings where

23:45

afterward I'm like, hey, just remind

23:48

me about that one thing. Like

23:50

why not record it. You know,

23:52

families don't know they can take

23:54

a break in the meeting. I

23:56

just need a minute. I need

23:59

to pause. That's another tip. The

24:01

key with recording, yes, it might

24:03

be offsetting to the teams, but

24:05

now with all these AI devices

24:08

and the ability to capture notes,

24:10

this is just a best practice

24:12

to make sure we're held

24:14

accountable on both sides. Any

24:17

final words of advice for

24:19

parents who are navigating all

24:21

this without the help of

24:24

a parent advocate? Yeah,

24:26

so I think parents forget.

24:28

how strong they really are because

24:30

they get beaten down by the

24:32

feeling of being overwhelmed all the time

24:35

and trying to understand what's going

24:37

on with their kiddo and they

24:39

are you know lost in either

24:41

trying to get a diagnosis or

24:43

they're lost trying to get support

24:45

from a spouse or a partner

24:47

in you know believing what they're

24:49

seeing and so they can get

24:51

they can get overwhelmed and really burnt

24:54

out. And so I really want

24:56

families to reach out to their

24:58

community to try and get support

25:00

because they're not alone. And that is

25:02

the major reason why I went into

25:05

this work is that I love working

25:07

one-on-one with families. I know their pain

25:09

and I want to bring my authentic

25:11

self to them to help them navigate

25:13

this and know that they can get

25:15

through the other side. There is hope.

25:17

And every child is a puzzle. And

25:19

so that's the other fun thing about

25:21

us, is like with teaching, you know,

25:24

it's how can I get this kiddo

25:26

to, you know, learn math, you know,

25:28

learn how to read better. And it's

25:30

just for us as advocates, it's really

25:32

how we can give the families the

25:34

confidence to be able to navigate. this

25:36

and then they can fire us because

25:39

we're not supposed to be around for

25:41

like a year or so. We're supposed

25:43

to be there my average is three

25:45

to six months with families unless you

25:47

know some I follow a school year

25:50

very much for a lot of families

25:52

they bring me in when they need

25:54

me to help with with advocating for

25:56

certain meetings and for reviewing data

25:59

but it's It's really just the

26:01

intense period. It's usually in

26:03

three to six months because

26:05

I want to give them the tools to

26:07

be able to go out and do

26:09

this for themselves. Thank you so much for

26:11

all of this amazing advice. My

26:13

pleasure. You can find more

26:16

parenting advocacy insights from Danielle on

26:18

her website and compass parrot solutions.com.

26:20

Thanks so much for listening today.

26:22

If you have any thoughts about

26:25

the episode, we'd love to hear

26:27

from you. You can email us

26:29

at in it at understood.org and

26:31

check out the show notes for

26:33

this episode where we have more

26:35

resources and links to anything we

26:38

mentioned. This show is brought to

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you by understood.org. Understood is a

26:42

nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering people

26:44

with learning and thinking differences like

26:46

ADHD and dyslexia. If you'd like

26:49

to help us continue this work

26:51

donate at understood.org slash.gov. In It is

26:53

produced and edited by Julie Subrin,

26:55

with additional production support from Cody

26:58

Nelson and Samiah Adams. Justin D.

27:00

Wright mixes the show and Mike

27:02

Eryko wrote our theme music. Brianna

27:04

Berry is our production director, Neil

27:06

Drumming is our editorial director. From

27:08

Understood.org, our executive directors are Laura

27:11

Key, Scott Kosier, and Seth Malnick.

27:13

Thanks for listening. And thanks for

27:15

always being in it with us.