0:00

Hey listeners, exciting news!

0:02

Understood .org just launched its first

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investigative podcast, Climbing the Walls.

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Hosted by journalist Danielle Elliott,

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the series explores the rise

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in ADHD diagnoses among women,

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including Danielle's own story. For

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decades, women have been overlooked in

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mental health research, and this show highlights

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the women who have paved the

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way for the little research that has

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been done. Join Danielle to uncover

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what needs to change. Listen to

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climbing the walls wherever you get your

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podcasts or click the link in

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the show notes. Hello

0:41

and welcome to In It, a podcast for families

0:43

with kids who learn and think differently. Here

0:45

you'll find advice, camaraderie, stories

0:47

of successes and, yes, sometimes

0:50

failures from experts and from parents

0:52

and caregivers like you. I'm Gretchen

0:54

Virstra, a former classroom teacher and

0:56

an editor here at understood .org. And

0:59

I'm Rachel Bozik, a writer, editor, and

1:01

mom who has definitely been in it.

1:04

Today we're talking about why we

1:06

need to stop saying sorry. Now

1:08

we're not talking about real, meaningful

1:11

apologies. We know those are

1:13

important, but what about all those times we

1:15

say sorry for things that aren't actually our fault?

1:18

Like when our child needs some extra

1:20

time to complete a task. And

1:22

what about the times other people tell

1:24

us they're sorry things are the

1:26

way they are, even though we know

1:28

those people actually have the power to

1:30

change the way things are? Our guest

1:32

today is someone who has given all of this

1:34

a lot of thought. In fact, she's

1:36

written a book about it. Dr.

1:38

Christina Cipriano, most people just call her

1:40

Dr. Chris, is a psychologist

1:42

and an associate professor at

1:44

the Yale University Child Study Center.

1:47

Her new book is

1:49

called Be Unapologetically Impatient. And

1:52

even though it doesn't come out till

1:54

this summer, we had the pleasure of previewing

1:56

a few chapters and it's so good. It

1:58

is so good. Chris

2:00

writes as an expert on psychology, but

2:02

also as a parent to a

2:04

daughter who has ADHD and sensory challenges

2:06

and a son with a rare

2:08

regressive disease. We're so happy she's joining

2:10

us today. Hello, Dr. Chris.

2:12

Welcome to In It. Thank you so much for

2:14

having me. We are so thrilled to

2:16

be talking with you today. And

2:19

what we want to talk

2:21

about is the problem with the words,

2:23

I'm sorry. and why we should

2:25

all stop saying it when it comes to

2:27

advocating for kids who are different in some

2:29

way. You say you had a

2:31

change in perspective on this phrase almost from

2:33

the first moment you became a mom. What

2:36

was going on for you back then that

2:38

led you to rethink this phrase? Absolutely.

2:42

Thank you so much for the opportunity

2:44

to share about this. And so, you

2:46

know, for me, when

2:48

I Started to hear

2:51

i'm sorry being said to

2:53

me in the context of my

2:55

children and their needs. It's

2:58

little light bulb for me that you

3:00

know typically we would think about

3:02

someone being you know apologetic as an

3:04

opportunity to express sympathy or that

3:06

they're trying to be kind and you

3:08

know maybe moving in the direction

3:10

of seeking to connect with us although

3:12

sympathy really what it does is

3:14

kind of can help to make the.

3:16

person who says the I'm sorry

3:18

feel better and kind of leaves you

3:20

or leaves me in this case

3:22

like kind of at a loss. And

3:24

so I have four beautiful children. They

3:27

are wildly diverse. My oldest

3:29

has a rare disease. My middle

3:31

daughter is neurodivergent. And the I'm

3:33

sorry started coming out in respect

3:35

to kind of their needs. And

3:37

the ways in which they weren't

3:39

getting access to services or treatments or

3:41

opportunities. And so, um, you know,

3:43

for me, when I started to

3:45

hear it in the light bulb

3:47

went off, I was thinking to

3:49

myself, well, why are you

3:52

saying you're sorry for us? Like, are

3:54

you positioning us as kind of

3:56

less than like, is it. is that

3:58

there's some sort of hierarchy here in

4:00

what you're saying or, you know,

4:02

is the expectation that I should be

4:04

sorry for my kids' needs because

4:06

let's be real, like, no, we don't

4:09

need to give anybody any reason

4:11

to look at our families and our

4:13

children as less than anyone else's

4:15

on the basis of any needs, right?

4:17

We have our right to be.

4:19

fully showing up and have the opportunity

4:22

to access and benefit from our

4:24

world. And so it was kind of

4:26

this combination of things over really

4:28

the first decade of my parenting that

4:30

brought me to this realization that

4:32

people say they're sorry to me all

4:34

the time for things that they

4:37

can change. Why is there

4:39

seemingly an expectation that I would

4:41

somehow be apologetic about things that I

4:43

can't about the needs and the

4:45

rights and interests of my children? Can

4:48

you give an example? Yeah,

4:51

absolutely. So my

4:53

oldest has a rare disease.

4:55

It's called Phala McDermott syndrome.

4:58

It's a regressive syndrome. As he ages,

5:00

he loses skills and he now

5:02

relies on a wheelchair for full mobility

5:04

services. And the amount of times,

5:06

and I talk about just a few

5:08

of them in the book that

5:10

I could have probably written a whole

5:12

book about the wheelchair, and I'm

5:14

sorry to be quite honest with you,

5:17

that people in our broader spaces, so

5:20

whether it's the airline or at

5:22

the amusement park or at the industrial

5:24

office or the government building, the

5:26

baseball game, who would say things to

5:28

us like, Oh I'm sorry or

5:30

I'm sorry for your inconvenience or I'm

5:32

sorry and it has something to

5:34

do with the wheelchair. Like

5:36

you know his wheelchair doesn't arrive after

5:38

we're like trying to get off a

5:40

plane and we're stuck on the jet

5:43

bridge for 45 minutes because the wheelchair

5:45

got brought to luggage pickup as opposed

5:47

to being coming to us at gate

5:49

check and you know all the TS

5:51

agents are saying they're sorry to us

5:53

and the administrators as though like we

5:55

have any other option than to just

5:57

weight there for the wheelchair, like the

5:59

necessity of it is just lost. And,

6:01

you know, maybe just another example to

6:03

kind of enrich this. There

6:05

is also a lot of I'm

6:07

sorry that comes up around like the

6:09

idea that my children have, you

6:11

know, diverse diagnoses, like like a sorry

6:14

for like people will say like,

6:16

oh, I'm, oh, I'm sorry to

6:18

hear that or I'm sorry for them.

6:20

And even just saying these things

6:22

out loud, they like make my blood

6:24

boil. And it really

6:26

kind of signals to us like

6:28

a bit of a devaluation of them

6:30

as people, as people who derive

6:32

great joy in the world and have

6:35

so many assets and strengths that

6:37

they bring to everything that we engage

6:39

in. So there's another example

6:41

you give about a visit to

6:43

an amusement park where you looked on

6:45

the website beforehand and it says

6:47

that all these different rides are accessible

6:50

to wheelchairs. But then when you

6:52

get there, the people running the ride

6:54

say, oh, sorry, that wheelchair

6:56

doesn't work on this ride.

6:58

That is just infuriating. Absolutely. Oh

7:00

my gosh. Yes. And in

7:03

that particular example, I was speaking

7:05

about the policy that used

7:07

to exist at Universal Studios. And

7:10

so I say it used to exist

7:12

because they actually changed the policy after

7:14

I went through a series of interactions

7:16

thereafter, our very unfortunate

7:18

situation where we were being denied

7:20

access for our son to

7:22

go on the quote, unquote, accessible

7:24

rides. As a result

7:27

of the policy being structured to

7:29

not account for pediatric wheelchairs. So

7:31

it was designed as though like

7:33

they had a set of questions

7:35

that they had to ask. The

7:37

attendant at every ride would say,

7:39

you know, is his seatbelt for

7:42

comfort or safety? And it's

7:44

a pediatric wheelchair. So they like newsflash,

7:46

they're all for safety, right? Just like,

7:48

you know, you have all the roles

7:50

around being in cars, et cetera, with

7:52

seatbelts and children. And so that in

7:54

and of itself was supposed to mean

7:56

then therefore he couldn't go on the

7:58

ride. And so I was like, this

8:00

is something that we can address this.

8:02

Because he actually needs the seatbelt. Absolutely,

8:04

as does every other child in a

8:06

pediatric wheelchair who's not just like, you

8:08

know, being wheeled around because they twisted

8:10

their ankle that day. So you

8:13

talk about the phrase, I'm

8:15

sorry, as a kind of deficit

8:17

framing. That's the term that

8:19

you use. Can you talk a

8:21

little bit about what that

8:23

means? Yeah, yeah, so it's

8:25

basically so when we think

8:27

about someone in a deficit

8:29

frame were devaluing that person

8:31

or treating them as less

8:33

than. And so we will

8:35

talk about the things that

8:37

someone or a group of

8:40

people can't do. Or

8:42

make assumptions about things that

8:44

they can't do or maybe

8:46

would not be interested in

8:48

doing. And so it

8:50

is a. Yeah, devaluing of

8:52

the whole person and in many

8:54

places and spaces, it can come

8:57

off really like demoralizing and dehumanizing

8:59

of the individual. And so like,

9:01

I'll give you an example, my

9:03

oldest Miles with his rare disease,

9:06

he derives incredible joy

9:08

from the Toy

9:10

Story franchise. And,

9:12

you know, people will like see us out

9:14

and about and he'll have like his

9:16

tablet and his Toy Story things, etc. And,

9:18

you know, sometimes people will say things

9:21

like, Oh, like, does he watch anything else

9:23

or why don't you change it up

9:25

like if they're by my house like it's

9:27

on for like the millionth time and

9:29

I'll explain that you know he gets great

9:31

joy from this it's his brain it's

9:33

different than all of our brains are different

9:35

and for him he drives great joy

9:37

and they'll say like oh like I'm so

9:39

sorry that he like. can't or can't

9:41

or wonder what I feel like we could

9:43

continue on as though it's like a

9:45

bad thing. Whereas meanwhile, I'm

9:47

just clinging on that. Wow, he

9:49

gets such great joy from these

9:51

experiences and from, you know, Buzz

9:54

Lightyear is his spirit animal and

9:56

like we're all in it with

9:58

him. So I'm not sorry about

10:00

that at all. Yeah. Yeah.

10:08

I want to pick up something else

10:10

about this um this deficit framing

10:12

that i want to make sure we're

10:14

making clear you know you know

10:16

your readers a lot of them actually

10:18

have very you know challenging things

10:20

going on in their lives so it's

10:22

not that you're saying like everything's

10:24

peaches and cream a hundred percent all

10:26

the time right that is not

10:28

your point no absolutely absolutely i mean

10:30

i write from the lens of

10:32

disability and our experiences with disability but

10:34

there are many different kind of

10:36

ways and spaces and places where we

10:38

maybe consider ourselves or someone may

10:40

consider us disadvantaged. And

10:43

I introduced this idea that disadvantage

10:45

actually provides you with this different

10:47

vantage point. And so, yeah,

10:49

these disadvantages they can and they

10:51

do, as I say in the

10:53

book, likely suck, right? They're not,

10:55

they're not great things. I mean,

10:57

When we think about the ways

10:59

in which poverty intersects and interrupts

11:01

our opportunities to advance in society

11:04

from the ways in which having

11:06

certain minoritized identities in different spaces

11:08

and places worldwide can put you

11:10

at a disadvantage and that can

11:12

experience tremendous challenges and livelihoods to

11:14

access and benefit from school, have

11:17

the opportunities for gainful employment.

11:19

I'm not saying that none of

11:21

that is true. Right. But

11:23

on the contrary, introducing the idea

11:25

that, well, you have

11:27

this perspective, like we can

11:29

use it to affect change because

11:31

the reality is it can take our

11:34

lifetime to change how a system

11:36

sees you. But each and

11:38

every one of us can shift how

11:40

we see ourselves in the system

11:42

right now. And that's kind of the

11:44

steps that I'm moving through in

11:46

the book of how to harness that

11:48

vantage point that you know in

11:50

many spaces and places is positioning you

11:52

at a disadvantage as actually. You

11:54

have insights to share with the

11:56

world right now to affect change and

11:59

here are some evidence based strategies

12:01

for how to engage other people and

12:03

letting them in inviting them in.

12:05

To your vantage point so they can

12:07

see the world the way you

12:09

see the world and we can build

12:11

a world that's better for everybody

12:13

through that and through those interactions. I

12:16

love that that's so great. One

12:18

situation I can imagine is that

12:20

someone finds themselves talking to a parent

12:22

who reveals that their child has

12:24

some kind of disability or learning or

12:27

thinking difference. I think many

12:29

people may have the initial reaction

12:31

of saying, I'm sorry, what else

12:33

might someone say in that situation?

12:35

Yeah, I appreciate that question so

12:37

much. So, you know, you

12:40

can start with. gratitude, thanking someone

12:42

for letting you in for

12:44

sharing this information with you and

12:46

providing you kind of a

12:48

glimmer of insight and then move

12:50

from that gratitude into asking

12:52

a question that's non -judgmental of

12:54

like, you know, would you like to tell

12:56

me more about. whatever that might

12:58

be or you know we can move

13:00

into even a more kind of

13:02

empathetic or compassionate response how can i

13:04

support you and your family you

13:07

know now learning this information and i'll

13:09

tell you for someone who you

13:11

know we have a beautifully diverse family

13:13

and we've had beautifully diverse reactions

13:15

to our family but the most close

13:17

to my heart moments are the

13:19

moments when strangers or the parent

13:22

on the soccer field or someone

13:24

in the supermarket in the parking lot

13:26

will ask, how can I help?

13:28

How can I support you? What would

13:30

be useful? And they're really offering.

13:32

And to me, that's moving beyond that,

13:34

and not just to me, but

13:37

to science as well. It's moving

13:39

beyond that sympathetic top -level response to

13:41

this more compassionate interaction of you

13:43

know, we can do something together or

13:45

I can do something to support

13:47

you in many ways. I know I

13:49

use a few examples throughout the

13:51

book that kind of get at some

13:54

of these pieces. And, you know,

13:56

from from the kind of initial

13:58

like tug and cheek of people responding

14:00

to me when they would see

14:02

me out with my littles, my three

14:04

little, my three youngest are all

14:06

15 months apart. And so I talk

14:09

a bit this beginning in the

14:11

book that they're they kind of

14:13

looked like, you know, twins and then

14:15

triplets, but who are all different

14:17

than each other. And People were

14:19

very quick to say things like, oh,

14:21

I'm so sorry. Oh, you have

14:23

your hands full. And I knew they

14:26

were just trying to form connection.

14:28

But really, I didn't need a reminder

14:30

that I was not an octopus.

14:32

That was not helpful. It

14:34

was not saying, well, let me hold the

14:36

door for you. Could I

14:39

do something? And

14:41

anyway, that's a very superficial example.

14:43

But they get much deeper

14:45

as we move through those experiences.

14:49

you know the last week i was at

14:51

children's hospital with my son miles and

14:53

we were talking to a service provider and

14:55

they couldn't really figure out what was

14:57

going on with his g -tube and you

14:59

know there are many children and adults have

15:01

g -tubes across the country and you know

15:03

one of the nurses who was evaluating

15:05

with the doctor said something about well maybe

15:07

he's having an allergy to it because

15:09

they had a new one placed and she

15:12

said. I've never seen that before, but

15:14

I mean, it could happen. Like it's presenting

15:16

like an allergy. You should

15:18

call the provider of who

15:20

makes the G -tubes and find

15:22

out if they changed the

15:24

material that they use to

15:26

make them. And I laughed

15:28

and I said, well,

15:30

I could try. It'll probably take

15:32

me six months to get someone

15:34

on the phone. I don't know

15:36

how I would ever get access

15:39

to that. But I imagine if

15:41

you tried, to call as the

15:43

provider and said on behalf of

15:45

all of your patients, rather than

15:47

it just being, you know, just

15:49

me, Myles mom making a phone

15:51

call and I'm no one to

15:53

them. Maybe you can answer.

15:55

And the doctor and the nurse and my

15:57

husband was also in the room. They

15:59

all like stopped and I saw my husband

16:01

like trying to not laugh because he's

16:04

very familiar with my book and knows that

16:06

I'm calling people in in the book

16:08

of saying like it's not just my job

16:10

to deal with things that I are

16:12

addressing. It's everyone's. We need to do this

16:14

together. And then, you know, they said,

16:16

okay, we'll look into this. We will follow

16:18

up, you know, and, you know, she

16:20

understood my perspective. And like you said, she's

16:22

representing or they're representing a whole bunch

16:24

of folks who are going to need answers

16:26

to this question. So why put that

16:29

on you? Exactly. Okay. So

16:31

we've talked about how yucky it can

16:33

feel to hear I'm sorry from someone

16:35

else, especially when we're talking about our

16:37

families. So now let's pivot to when

16:39

we want to advocate for our families, for our

16:41

kids. Can you give us

16:43

a few quick examples of when parents

16:45

and caregivers say I'm sorry when

16:48

they're advocating? Because I'm not sure we're

16:50

all realizing how often we might

16:52

do it. Absolutely. We

16:55

are in many ways have been

16:57

socialized to apologize for asking questions when

16:59

questions are a form of how

17:01

we learn, right? They're how we

17:03

engage. And so if you are becoming

17:05

a parent of a child who

17:07

has a diagnosis or is in need

17:10

of additional supports or services at

17:12

school, it's a whole new

17:14

world. And so we would expect that you

17:16

would have lots of questions, right? Even

17:18

those who have training in special education, lots

17:20

of questions of what's needed. When

17:23

engaging with the school system

17:25

or the medical support systems, it's

17:27

very common to hear parents

17:29

and caregivers saying things like, I'm

17:32

sorry, can you repeat that? Or

17:34

I'm sorry, what do you mean by

17:36

or I'm sorry? And then asking

17:38

questions regarding the child's servicing as like

17:40

the first step of even just

17:42

understand what is happening. And

17:44

then there's the second layer

17:46

of it of apologizing for asking

17:49

for services, services that your

17:51

children are entitled to by law

17:53

to meet their needs and

17:55

to understand and embrace their diverse

17:57

ways of knowing and seeing

18:00

and navigating their world as though

18:02

we have been socialized to

18:04

anticipate that that is something we

18:06

shouldn't or couldn't ask for. Like,

18:09

you know, as though we're apologizing,

18:11

and we see this with families

18:13

and caregivers that we're apologizing for

18:15

the doctor's time. We're apologizing for

18:18

the teacher's time, for the speech

18:20

therapist's time, for the OT's time.

18:22

But on the flip side of

18:24

that, right? Like, it's not something

18:26

to be sorry for. Like, that

18:28

dismisses our child or our family's

18:30

needs and values. You

18:32

know, our kids and our families and our needs

18:34

are not something to be positioned as less than.

18:36

They are not something to be sorry

18:39

for. And I think,

18:41

like, after us talking about your

18:43

book and this conversation we were going to

18:45

have, and I just realized how often

18:47

in my day, I say I'm sorry. So

18:49

many times a day. So many times. And

18:51

I think part of it is too, and

18:53

this also probably comes from this deficit framing

18:56

just in terms of when we're talking about

18:58

advocating if your kids needs is like, I

19:00

think I'm not going to get what I

19:02

need if I don't apologize first. Right. I

19:04

was just thinking about that in terms of

19:06

it. I've been lucky enough to not. have

19:08

had this experience, but I've heard so many

19:10

people talk about it where whoever is there

19:12

to help them through their situation, it's like

19:15

they're doing them a favor. Right.

19:18

Right. Right. And that, and that's positioning us

19:20

as though we're somehow like a burden

19:22

or extra or unnecessary or, you know, fill

19:24

in the blank with the ways in

19:26

which it's positioned. And, you know, it's really

19:28

common for that, I'm sorry to come

19:30

up. When there is a hierarchy

19:32

and there's a lot of natural

19:34

hierarchies in these systems and structures that

19:36

we're engaging in as parents of

19:38

children with disabilities. So it's the family

19:40

or caregiver. You know, I

19:43

hate the idea of the positioning of verses,

19:45

but it's the parent or caregiver and

19:47

then there's the school system. There's the educator.

19:49

But even at the micro level,

19:51

there's the teacher and the student,

19:53

right? There's a hierarchy there. There's

19:55

the patient and the doctor or

19:58

the provider, the patient and the

20:00

medical billing insurer, right? The folks

20:02

that we would imagine all of

20:04

them would always have the answers

20:06

to our questions and have the

20:08

expertise and training to support us

20:10

and our children and families to

20:12

thrive. And yet, Many of

20:14

us have been socialized to kind of

20:16

keep leading with that, I'm sorry,

20:18

as though, you know, we're taking up

20:21

space with our needs. So

20:28

what are some alternatives in

20:30

this context to leading with I'm

20:32

sorry when we're asking for

20:34

someone to do something differently for

20:36

us or for our kids,

20:38

you know, from an advocacy standpoint?

20:40

Absolutely. So lead with gratitude.

20:42

I can't say that enough. Always

20:44

start with the thank you. I

20:47

also talk about in the book

20:49

making yourself known, like positioning yourself. So

20:51

I will introduce myself in every

20:53

situation, like this is Miles, or like

20:55

I am Miles' mother, or we're

20:57

not from around here. I will give

20:59

them some context because in the

21:01

absence of contextualizing who you are in

21:03

the interaction, whether it be with

21:05

a stranger or a new care provider

21:07

or a teacher, Um, you

21:09

are a parent or you're that

21:11

parent. And it's no fault

21:13

of, um, that person on the

21:16

other side of things, right? It's

21:18

just that as adults, our brain,

21:20

um, it tricks us. We become

21:22

more inward leaning. And so, you

21:24

know, care providers, medical professionals, education

21:26

professionals, they fall into the way

21:28

they do things and what they

21:30

see, just like we all do

21:32

in our jobs because our brain

21:34

habituates the information. And so. humanize

21:36

the experience so that we can

21:38

help to bring people so they

21:40

can see you as you are,

21:42

not as how they imagine you

21:44

might be in that context. So

21:47

is this unapologetic approach to self -advocacy

21:49

something you've taught your kids or

21:51

that you work on with them? Absolutely,

21:55

and especially when it comes to

21:57

my neurodivergent daughter, Eleanor. teaching

22:00

her to ask for support and

22:02

to ask questions when she doesn't understand

22:04

in ways that are opening up

22:06

lines of conversations and not kind of

22:08

calling out. So in the book,

22:10

I kind of walk through a series

22:12

of steps of how, you know,

22:14

we may unintentionally or intentionally in some

22:16

spaces call people out or put

22:18

people on the defense when we're seeking

22:20

or asking for support. We're in

22:22

the face of an injustice. And,

22:25

you know, when you do that,

22:27

nobody hears you. And so When

22:29

we advocate for ourselves and our

22:31

needs, we want to use a

22:33

tone, and I give her sentence

22:35

starters, to invite people in about

22:38

why you need it. Because that

22:40

anger and frustration, it is so

22:42

rightfully there, right? I'm not saying

22:44

to not feel it. We feel

22:46

it, and then we harness it.

22:48

We harness the power of that

22:50

emotion. to help to

22:52

advance us and everybody around us.

22:54

I think one really clear example

22:57

of this. So earlier in the

22:59

episode, we were talking about the

23:01

amusement park. As we

23:03

were going through it, now, Eleanor was

23:05

younger then when this happened. And she

23:07

was, by the second day of all

23:09

the ride providers telling us that Miles

23:11

couldn't ride the ride, she was just

23:13

calling them ableists. She was just saying,

23:15

you're... Ablest how dare you and like

23:17

all of her fiery energy energy and

23:19

of course I mean I know we're

23:21

kind of laughing as we're saying this

23:23

but that I explained to her like

23:25

no one is going to listen to

23:27

you when you do like that that

23:30

is not gonna help us and well

23:32

and I get the frustration and of

23:34

course where did she get that from

23:36

she got that from me like she

23:38

saw me like I had my moment

23:40

of vulnerability and like broke into tears

23:42

with one of the people on day

23:44

one and then And I modeled it.

23:46

And so she did after that. And

23:48

we kind of walked through it later.

23:50

And so now when we're places and

23:52

spaces and there isn't a ramp, because

23:54

this is a constant part of our

23:56

existence, like the navigation around with the

23:58

wheelchair. And so she will

24:00

still be frustrated, but she will use

24:02

kinder words with other people around

24:04

us of like, asking for their help

24:06

to move the chair so that

24:09

her brother's wheelchair could go through as

24:11

opposed to being like, why don't

24:13

you move the chair? I

24:15

mean, and I'm thinking in a

24:17

classroom experience, for example, you

24:20

know, if you're like middle schooler, one of

24:22

their accommodations is to get notes or an

24:24

outline from the teacher and the teacher forgot

24:26

to give the notes and you're telling to

24:28

tell your child, well, you ask the teacher

24:30

say that, you know, please can I have

24:33

my notes? I imagine

24:35

there where you're trying to

24:37

say like, you don't say, um,

24:39

you know, I'm sorry, I

24:41

need notes. Right. Right. Exactly. Start.

24:44

with thank you and then state as

24:46

a fact what it was that you

24:48

needed. It's not like

24:50

an open for debate. It

24:52

leaves open to interpretation this idea

24:54

that like maybe I shouldn't be asking

24:57

for this when that is not

24:59

the case. So yeah,

25:01

absolutely. And I think we

25:03

all just need to probably too

25:05

understand that this is hard to change.

25:07

and we're human, and we're

25:09

not to be perfect at it.

25:11

And habits are so hard to break,

25:13

right? Absolutely. I

25:16

mean, there's scientific evidence behind that, right? Yeah. There

25:19

is. And there's also

25:21

scientific evidence around this idea

25:23

that when you have accommodated

25:25

so much new information, so

25:27

this is a psychological term

25:30

here, from cognitive psychology, when

25:32

you've accommodated so much information that you

25:34

change the way you see things and

25:36

you change the way you know things

25:38

that is a that is these new

25:40

glasses that is that new way of

25:42

seeing things and so you know in

25:44

the book i talk about it as

25:46

whether it's you know the glitter on

25:49

your heart like that persistent glitter that

25:51

never goes away like if any of

25:53

you have children who play with glitter

25:55

it shows up year after year it's

25:57

always there it never always there you

25:59

know but once it's there right it's

26:01

and this is a from a from

26:03

a neuroplasticity standpoint in your brain like.

26:05

Once you've made that change, it's always

26:08

there. And so you're always

26:10

going to see it. And so

26:12

as we work as human beings

26:14

across the lifespan to focus our

26:16

attention and our intention to attend.

26:18

So intention and attention. So our

26:20

intention to attend. Because again, remember

26:22

our brain can trick us as

26:24

we age. It gets into these

26:26

patterns and then you stop seeing

26:29

things and people as they are

26:31

you just see them as like

26:33

just the way it is and

26:35

the way we do things right

26:37

and so we can continue to

26:39

evolve and grow and use that

26:41

new vantage point but it takes

26:43

work and it's something that I

26:45

work at every day and everyone

26:48

around me does as well and

26:50

we hold my my support system

26:52

we hold ourselves and each other

26:54

accountable to doing that

26:56

good work in ways that will support our

26:58

kids and all kids to thrive. But

27:00

it's not easy. This is

27:02

not an easy band -aid

27:04

of advice. I mean,

27:06

this was also helpful. Thank you so

27:09

much. Thank you so much. And thank you

27:11

for writing such a beautiful book. Thank

27:13

you. Thank you so much. Keep

27:23

an eye out for Dr. Chris' new book.

27:26

Be unapologetically impatient. Thanks

27:28

so much for listening today. If you

27:30

have any thoughts about the episode, we'd love

27:32

to hear from you. You can email

27:34

us at init at understood .org. And

27:37

check out the show notes for this

27:39

episode, where we have more resources and links

27:41

to anything we mentioned. This

27:43

show is brought to you by

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understood .org. Understood is a nonprofit

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organization dedicated to empowering people with

27:49

learning and thinking differences like ADHD

27:51

and dyslexia. If you'd like to

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28:00

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28:02

Nelson and Samaya Adams. Justin

28:04

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wrote our theme music. Brianna Berry

28:09

is our production director, Neil Drumming

28:11

is our editorial director. From

28:13

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28:15

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28:17

and Seth Melnick. Thanks for

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