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0:48

By now,

0:55

We're all familiar with the story of how the

0:57

Durham investigation was rekindled in

1:00

twenty nineteen, resulting in the closing

1:02

of the case nearly two and a half years

1:04

later. We've heard locals

1:07

share their memories and insight. We've

1:09

heard why many members of law enforcement

1:12

stand by Billy Wayne Davis' confession

1:14

believing the Dixie mafia was responsible

1:17

for the murders of Bryce, Virginia, and

1:19

Bobby Durham. But

1:22

we've also heard many tell us that they don't

1:24

believe the case is actually solved,

1:27

not until we know for sure who it

1:29

was that initiated the crime. We've

1:32

heard Stoney confess again that,

1:34

yes, his father was a brutal

1:36

killer, guilty of unspeakable crimes.

1:39

But he's also given us his reasons for

1:41

believing that his father was not a

1:43

part of the Durham family slings. Stoney's

1:48

biggest claim is that he feels

1:50

Davis might actually not be responsible

1:52

for the murders either despite his confession.

1:55

While it might sound ludicrous to say that

1:58

A man would confess to taking part in

2:00

a triple homicide if in reality

2:02

he didn't. As Tony told

2:04

us, he believes Davis made a deal

2:06

in exchange for his cooperation resulting

2:09

in him being moved to a more comfortable,

2:12

safer, medical prison. In

2:15

this episode, I'll strive to

2:17

find out if there's really any

2:19

validity to that or

2:21

not. From

2:29

imperative entertainment, this is

2:33

season two of in the red

2:35

clay. In

2:42

order to tell this story properly and

2:44

see if there really is any merit to

2:46

Stoney's claims, I needed to

2:48

go back to where it all started. With

2:50

former GBI agent Bob Ingram.

2:53

He's the man who first set the ball in

2:55

motion with his call to the Watoga

2:57

County Sheriff. Ingram relayed

3:00

information provided by Billy Bird's

3:02

youngest son, Shane, who

3:04

was at the time researching information

3:06

on his father's crimes with the help

3:08

of local Georgia based author,

3:10

Phil Hudgins. While Hudgins was

3:12

helping Shane and his mother, Ruby

3:14

Nell Burt, research and compile notes,

3:17

he reached out to Ingram.

3:23

Phil called me about me when

3:25

I'd be willing to submit to an interview

3:28

with him about a book, I'll do

3:30

it Sunday burn. Before

3:33

the call ended, he had

3:35

a very unusual request. He

3:38

asked me if Shane broke the youngest

3:40

son of Billy Perrette's could

3:42

come with him. She did all the interview.

3:45

I I did not know Shane Burtt.

3:47

I just knew he was outside of Billy Burtt.

3:51

I thought it was a very unusual

3:53

request that that that would

3:55

be really really

3:58

awkward and I can't imagine

4:00

the son of a killer wanting

4:03

to sit down and hear me talk

4:05

about his dad's multiple murders

4:07

over a ten year period that he had committed.

4:11

Shane and Phil Hudgins met with Ingram

4:13

at his office in White County, Georgia

4:15

2 discuss Billie Burton's crimes.

4:18

While Shane wanted to sit in on the interview

4:20

with Ingram to discuss his father,

4:22

he wasn't compelled to respond to my

4:24

request for an interview. Nor was

4:26

Phil Hudgins. The

4:28

meeting concluded after two hours.

4:31

And as the men said their

4:32

goodbyes, Shane said something

4:34

to Ingram. That peaked his curiosity.

4:38

Shane said to me, said, you know,

4:40

I've talked to my father some

4:42

thirty years of in prison

4:44

on visitation. And he

4:46

told me about a

4:48

lot of crimes that he had committed against

4:51

the peace I didn't

4:53

say anything down. I said to her, 2, would

4:55

you be willing to sit

4:57

down with me at a later

4:58

date? And be interviewed. Ingram

5:01

tells me that the two men met several

5:03

more times and discussed the bits

5:05

and pieces of stories shared by

5:07

Billy Burke to Shane through the

5:09

years during prison visits. Though

5:12

Stoney, who never missed a visit with

5:14

his father, says that Shane

5:16

was hardly ever there.

5:19

We've gone through so many different

5:22

cases. First of all, him

5:24

starting out with what he remembered

5:27

that could tell

5:27

me, and then me questioning him

5:30

about specific characters of

5:32

Georgia. Both Shane

5:34

and Ingram were each hoping to

5:36

get information from the other. Shane

5:38

hoped to write a book, Ingram looked

5:40

for any new information that could lead

5:42

to the solving of one of the many

5:44

unsolved murders thought to be perpetrated

5:46

by the Dixie mafia. It

5:48

was during the third meeting between the

5:50

men that the Durham case by

5:52

happenstance came into focus.

5:55

On May the seventeenth of

5:57

twenty nineteen, I

6:00

did a a formal interview with Shay.

6:02

This is what Shay had brought up

6:05

and discussed the burden of

6:07

of three people in a residence

6:10

in the mountains of North Carolina.

6:12

And he said the victims were the

6:14

mother, the father, and a grown

6:16

child. And he

6:18

said that this occurred

6:20

in the early seventies. He didn't

6:22

have a specific date And

6:26

there was a heavy snowstorm in

6:28

which the eyeballs got trapped as

6:31

a result of it. The

6:33

house sits way up on a steep

6:35

rise hill, if you will, it

6:38

would be very

6:39

treacherous with snow and ice The

6:42

information provided by Shane

6:44

does seem to fit the profile of

6:46

the Durham Murder case. But

6:48

what proof is there other than Ingram's

6:50

word that Shane Burton really received

6:52

this information from his father. All

6:55

of the information he allegedly provided

6:57

could easily be found online.

7:00

And the timing of all this interestingly

7:02

enough coincides with the book he

7:04

was trying to write.

7:06

He also said that this

7:08

cribe was set up by

7:11

either a death few or a son of a

7:13

law. And it said that

7:15

the ban who has killed

7:17

one of the victims had a car dealership,

7:20

and he was set up to be robbed.

7:22

And they didn't get the amount

7:24

of money that they had back to 2 In

7:26

her crime.

7:30

After hearing so much about the Durham's

7:33

son-in-law, Troy Hall, and his

7:35

potential involvement. This

7:37

would prove to be explosive information.

7:39

Though again, this information was

7:42

available online if you searched

7:44

for it. But initially, this didn't

7:46

mean very much to Ingram because he

7:48

wasn't looking for murders committed in

7:49

Boone, North Carolina. He

7:52

was looking elsewhere. He

7:54

used the the word Durham

7:58

thinking. That

8:00

it was Durham, North Carolina.

8:03

Subsequent to that, after

8:05

seeing Bull Durham on television,

8:09

Shad called me and said, no.

8:11

The family's name was Durham. It

8:15

didn't take long. With

8:18

that information in the

8:20

Internet to Google, triple

8:22

on twelve toggled side, Mount

8:25

North Carolina Durham.

8:27

This all feels a little convenient, almost

8:30

something straight out of a

8:32

movie. Or a

8:33

book? With with that

8:35

information, it came

8:37

up relatively quickly

8:39

that there was about fall harbor

8:41

side in moved North

8:43

Carolina. Three members of

8:45

a family. They were

8:47

bound. They were

8:48

tortured. They were

8:51

robbed. And

8:52

killed. For Ingram, there was

8:55

one piece of information that stood

8:57

out, something that harkened back to

8:59

his days, working the fleming double

9:01

homicide, in RINs, Georgia in

9:03

nineteen seventy three.

9:04

When I pulled up the newspaper

9:07

articles, on the crime

9:09

and the crime sated the evidence

9:11

in what I was able

9:13

to 2, it almost

9:17

was a template

9:23

I'm Edward Kamlin, host of

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In the early two thousands, the

10:00

head of a struggling company

10:02

is desperate to turn things around.

10:05

So he tried something a

10:07

bit different. What if you

10:09

got rid of stuffy workplace

10:11

culture and replaced it with

10:13

fun? It's the brainchild of

10:15

a man named Tony

10:17

Shea. CEO of the online

10:19

shoe store, Zappos. Zappos

10:21

is now so successful that

10:24

last fall, Amazon paid

10:26

one point two billion

10:28

dollars to acquire it.

10:30

But Tony isn't satisfied.

10:32

He doesn't just wanna build businesses.

10:34

He wants to build worlds.

10:36

This kinda weird hybrid between a

10:38

corporation and community and city

10:40

that's never really been done before.

10:42

This is a story about the power of

10:44

a vision and it's peril.

10:46

Ninety

10:47

one moment's location of your emergency.

10:49

Someone's locked in a room with prior.

10:52

I'm Nasrat on Tabakoli Farm,

10:54

and this is the cost

10:56

of happiness.

10:58

In

11:04

both the Durham and Fleming

11:06

cases, The victims were targeted for

11:08

robberies and then strangled

11:10

repeatedly, having to watch their loved ones

11:12

be tortured as well. The

11:14

victim's cars were taken and then left

11:16

abandoned a few miles away where the

11:18

killers escaped into a getaway

11:20

vehicle at a planned meeting point. The

11:22

important points were

11:26

the similarities in

11:28

the Christ. Number one, they were

11:30

targeted. The both crimes were set

11:32

up and targeted by somebody giving you

11:35

these people had money. They

11:37

were bolted to car business.

11:40

Mister Durham was actively

11:43

involved in a dealership

11:45

in Boone and mister

11:47

Fleming was a retired Ford dealer,

11:49

but he still dabbled the cars.

11:51

They were bound. Very

11:53

important. All of the was about

11:56

they were tortured in an effort to determine

11:58

where all the body was located. They

12:00

were killed, so there would be no

12:02

witnesses. The folds were

12:04

disabled in both.

12:06

But something Ingram says here is

12:08

not accurate. The Durham's

12:10

phone line was not disabled

12:12

or cut as many people

12:14

believe. When police arrived at the

12:16

scene, the handset was lying on

12:18

the floor as if it had been

12:20

dropped or knocked off the receiver but

12:22

the phone still worked. Stoney

12:25

tells me that the first thing his father would have

12:27

done in a crime like this is

12:29

cut the phone

12:29

line, so there was no chance of

12:32

anyone calling for help. It

12:34

very important way it to be

12:37

is that both

12:39

individuals had what

12:41

automobile the residents, which

12:43

supported multiple

12:45

offenders. And prior

12:47

to the crime, they had designated

12:49

a drop off at pick up

12:52

point away from the 2 between

12:54

one and two 2, both Kansas.

12:57

They will put out at the location

12:59

of the crime or in close proximity where

13:01

they could walk to, commit

13:04

the crime, take the victims

13:06

car driving a mile or two to

13:08

a pre designated

13:09

location, disposal

13:11

event, getting their

13:13

car and then leave. Ingram

13:15

keeps pointing out the importance of the

13:18

victim's car being taken. If there

13:20

was any unusual vehicle in the

13:22

driveway and someone happened to notice

13:24

it while the crime was being commissioned,

13:26

they would likely be able to

13:28

identify it later and trace it back to

13:30

the assailants. Experienced

13:32

criminals like the Dixie mafia knew

13:34

to avoid this, but

13:36

experienced criminals like the Dixie

13:38

mafia would have known to avoid many

13:40

other missteps during the crime as well,

13:42

such as allowing a phone call to

13:44

be made by a victim after

13:46

they had entered the house. Ingram

13:49

then worked with the Watayga County

13:51

Sheriff's Office to go to the only

13:53

living source, Billy Wayne

13:55

Davis, and Selicita confession,

13:57

Ingram wasn't initially asked to partake

13:59

in Davis's first interview with Motoga

14:01

County. They

14:03

went and interviewed Davis and

14:06

struck out got dawson.

14:08

So Ingram said he decided to

14:11

interview Davis himself. I've

14:13

actually prefer to do it alone. And

14:17

always have in my career

14:19

because I don't want any distractions. I

14:22

would add and

14:24

ask you nothing about

14:26

the Durham cat. I

14:29

went ahead and spent the first hour

14:31

kind of giving him a

14:33

history lesson on Billy

14:36

Bird, Billy Davis, the

14:39

whole group. And and

14:41

different crimes that it it did

14:43

committed. But but, specifically, I

14:45

hold it on the leverage case.

14:47

Knew it very

14:48

well. It rehearsed and

14:49

prepared. It laid the whole thing out and

14:52

spent an hour doing that with

14:54

you. And his exact

14:57

response to me is you

14:59

dug your homework. Why

15:01

are you here? And

15:03

that was my 2,

15:06

my lead in to the 2 test.

15:09

Ingram was in his early seventies at

15:11

the of his interview with Davis. I

15:13

can just picture these two men sitting

15:16

across the steel table from one

15:18

another, One, a decorated

15:20

member of law enforcement with nearly

15:22

fifty years of experience under his

15:24

belt. The other, an

15:26

unabashed liar, thief.

15:28

And killer. But

15:30

why is it that Davis denied

15:32

having any involvement in the Durham murders

15:34

initially when interviewed by

15:36

Oatoga County Sheriff's? Only

15:38

to seemingly cave into Ingram

15:40

after only one short meeting.

15:42

Could it be that Davis was

15:44

promised something? Ingram

15:47

told me that each time Davis had been up

15:49

for parole since he's been incarcerated,

15:51

he's attended the hearings to make sure

15:53

that Davis never gets out.

15:55

Could he have used this as leverage to

15:58

solicit a confession, perhaps

16:00

promising to no longer attend

16:02

these hearings? And after

16:04

his interview with Ingram, Davis

16:06

seemed very interested in whether or not he

16:08

was gonna be released from prison

16:10

according to sheriff Hageman.

16:11

I I went into some specifics

16:14

of the case and asked him

16:16

the most important question

16:18

was did you drive in

16:20

both cases, the diabetic cats,

16:23

and the Durham cats, and he

16:25

said yes. And

16:29

provided the information about the theft,

16:32

putting the power of them committing

16:34

the

16:34

crime, not getting the abbot of butter

16:36

that expected. Either

16:39

way, Bob Ingram had his

16:41

confession. Still, is it as

16:43

cut and dry as that? Davis,

16:45

I'm told, has dementia. Could

16:47

that affect his willingness to

16:49

confess? Or did he even

16:51

fully understand what he was

16:53

confessing to? When I

16:55

found out to be true, he was an

16:57

eighty year old man with a good maverick.

17:00

But his level of debentures,

17:02

if if, in fact, he had any at

17:04

all, was bettable. And

17:07

he told me he worked out every day and

17:09

did you pass you. So and

17:11

then you can, I guess,

17:13

use that as a measurement

17:15

of his mental and physical

17:17

fitness. Was he as

17:20

sharp as a thirty year old when I first

17:22

dealt with him? Of course

17:23

not. This is a bad who had good

17:26

recollection. Was he

17:28

able to provide specific

17:31

precise detail, though? But

17:33

was he able to 2 a good

17:35

general description of what occurred

17:37

and who was involved? Yes.

17:39

And he did.

17:41

I asked Stoney to weigh in on this.

17:43

You know,

17:44

if somebody told me that

17:46

Davis was either just asked to

17:48

take a light check your tests. It'd

17:51

be more reasonable for the general

17:53

public to accept

17:54

2, but no. He'd

17:56

not even ask the public only take

17:58

one. The law enforcement

18:01

involved in closing his case. Are

18:03

not evil. They're not diabolical. They don't

18:06

want to cause anybody to

18:07

harm. Hell,

18:08

then I didn't

18:09

leave their own bullshit. But

18:12

I don't believe they believe it. I

18:14

believe that we're all human.

18:17

I

18:17

believe that Bob

18:18

Ingram wants to continue to be

18:21

the legend the man

18:22

who broke the back of Dick's mafia. I

18:25

believe that they ever just that

18:27

is his life. Then used

18:29

paper articles. Things

18:31

he said at the interview when this was over,

18:33

but he didn't solve any more cases, Bob?

18:35

Probably. All that speaks

18:38

volumes The newspaper

18:39

article Stoney's referring to

18:42

is from the Atlanta Journal Constitution,

18:44

which did a feature on Ingram when

18:46

he retired from the GBI.

18:48

And called him the man that broke the back of

18:50

the Dixie mafia seeming to give

18:52

him credit for single handedly bringing

18:54

the group

18:55

down. 2

18:58

Stoney, that's laughable. Hey.

19:00

Don't take a rocket scientist 2 through this

19:02

show? They

19:03

throw my father into it.

19:05

Once again, just for

19:07

some notoriety to be the man who broke the back

19:09

of the Dixon mafia

19:12

predictable. From my

19:13

standpoint, predictable. If

19:15

the murders were committed by Billy

19:17

Bird and the Dixie mafia, why did

19:19

the crime scene peer as if

19:21

it was committed by amateurs, or done

19:24

unprofessionally as Stoney says,

19:26

why would Bert not have just gone in

19:29

the house? Taken care of business so to speak 2

19:31

got out quickly as he had done

19:33

so many times before. It

19:35

doesn't seem to make

19:36

sense. But Ingram thinks there might be

19:38

a reason for that.

19:40

He was

19:42

heavily into RJ

19:45

asks us. And RJS is

19:47

a black beauty. The speed pills

19:49

Bert favored. As the

19:51

seventies rolled

19:51

on, Bert became more dependent on

19:54

these pills. You

19:56

become extremely paranoid,

19:58

extremely dangerous. This and

20:00

and they experience the drug 2 do psychosis.

20:02

It's a temporary battle illness as a

20:05

result of what it does this lack

20:07

of sleep coupled with the, you

20:09

know, the extreme high

20:11

And then when you come down, be extreme low. Yeah.

20:13

It's it did play a havoc

20:15

with

20:15

you, Brent. I've

20:18

dealt with

20:19

quite a

20:20

number of vast burgers in my

20:23

career. And

20:23

as a result of that,

20:26

He is without a doubt the

20:28

meanest and most

20:29

dangerous. Billy

20:30

Sunday Bert was certainly dangerous.

20:34

And if you were on his bad side, I can

20:36

see that you could absolutely consider

20:38

him to be

20:38

mean. But I've heard

20:41

from many people, including former

20:43

police officers that they actually liked

20:45

Billy Bird very much, that he

20:47

was fun to be around. But

20:49

is it possible that by nineteen seventy two,

20:52

2 was using pills so heavily that

20:54

he'd begun to change? It's

20:57

apparent the pills were his downfall

20:59

in many ways, but Stoney was with

21:01

his father nearly every

21:03

single day. says he never saw him

21:05

become estranged with or

21:07

unusually mean to his family or

21:09

those closest to him. And

21:11

to the point that Ingram was making that Bert had

21:13

become so ill induced that he

21:15

became erratic and sloppy in his crimes

21:17

by the early seventies, While

21:19

he had become more paranoid as a side

21:22

effect of the black beauties, he

21:24

was still in many ways at the

21:26

top of his game. Still outsmarting

21:28

ATF's special agent, Jim

21:30

West, and the myriad of other law

21:32

enforcement agents tasked with bringing

21:34

him and his group down.

21:36

As well, during the time period of

21:38

the Durham murders, Bert was

21:40

being watched closely. After the

21:43

robbery of a local jewelry store in

21:45

Winder, Georgia, on January tenth

21:47

nineteen seventy two, Otis

21:49

Reidling, the youngest member of the

21:51

Dixie mafia, was arrested and

21:53

appeared in court on February fourteenth.

21:55

A trial at which Bert was

21:57

called to testify. Nineteen

21:59

seventy two was also the year that Bert

22:01

was paid by Davis to kill sheriff

22:04

Earl Dee Lee. But decided not to at the

22:06

last minute as Lee was with his

22:08

wife and children. This

22:10

flash of morality makes me question

22:12

if it's feasible that Bert would

22:14

then torture, strangle and drown an

22:17

innocent eighteen year old, Bobby

22:19

Durham, a child himself.

22:21

That just doesn't seem to fit.

22:24

So what about Stoney's theory of

22:26

Davis making a deal with law enforcement?

22:28

He didn't make

22:29

a deal with me. I

22:31

I never promised him anything

22:34

whatsoever. It's it's not

22:36

even within my purview, but

22:40

I I've never probably

22:43

do that. And I'm I'm not aware

22:46

of

22:46

there he would

22:47

do it that. The audio recordings of

22:50

Ingram's interviews with Davis have not been

22:52

released, and I'm told, that will

22:54

not

22:54

change. And asked for Davis

22:57

wanting to be released from prison for his

22:59

cooperation.

22:59

He doesn't

23:01

need to be out, obeyed the

23:04

plans, no, of course

23:05

not. They bet the old and

23:08

feeble, but Bob Day Group could look at

23:10

his eyes and tell it's,

23:12

you know, he's fully capable

23:14

of still pulling a trigger.

23:24

Aside from wanting to know, if there was

23:27

any chance that Davis had

23:29

made a deal with law enforcement the biggest question

23:31

in this case that still has

23:33

gone unanswered officially is

23:36

who set up the robbery homicide.

23:39

When I discuss this with Bob Ingram,

23:41

a conversation once again

23:44

immediately turns back to Troy

23:45

Hall. And the alleged phone call he received

23:48

from Virginia Durham shortly

23:50

before the murders occurred. Troy

23:51

Hall. That that phone call

23:54

that he described his

23:56

nonsense.

23:58

He said

24:01

that there were some black people tied

24:04

above

24:04

the whatever

24:05

and something that 2. Right. I mean,

24:07

you you gonna have multiple eventors in

24:09

a house and they're gonna let one

24:11

of the

24:11

victims make a phone call, sure

24:14

you are.

24:14

And then the sudden law doesn't

24:17

call police, he goes himself.

24:20

And and the whole story is preposterous.

24:22

The more you dissect the story,

24:24

the the more you realize

24:26

what he said and

24:28

what have you. And then Listen

24:31

to this. He takes

24:33

a neighbor and him

24:35

and his

24:36

wife. They drive to the

24:39

location. And they leave her in the car.

24:41

She's in the car abandoned while

24:44

they go up the hill

24:46

to confront

24:47

a group of blacks at a house

24:50

who have tied up the Durham

24:52

family. It

24:53

it's just every segolf

24:56

part of it is

24:58

not only unacceptable and

24:59

unbelievable, but it's preposterous. It's

25:02

bullshit to use the technical

25:04

term. Hearing Ingram tear apart

25:06

Troy's story, his eye opening.

25:08

This take on it is coming from a

25:10

man with half a century of law enforcement experience.

25:13

He's practically an expert on criminal

25:16

behavior. But by whatever

25:18

means, Troy Hall had to connect

25:20

with

25:20

Davis, Ingram, believes that's

25:23

exactly what happened. Somebody

25:25

said, bro, how certain are

25:27

you that it was Troy Hall?

25:30

Well, about ninety eight

25:32

percent if that's a good number.

25:36

Shaves said his father told him it was either a

25:39

nephew or a son-in-law. I

25:42

mean, come on. There's no way at

25:44

God's greed or us.

25:46

That Billy Bird and

25:49

that group would know

25:51

about a Durham family at Boone,

25:53

North Carolina. The what?

25:55

Unless somebody said, hey. This

25:57

group, this this family

25:59

has money. Davis,

26:04

in particular, had feelers

26:06

out everywhere. He's the

26:08

he's the real clever

26:10

academic scheming behind those

26:13

sleeves set up. The

26:15

deal. So he's got feelings

26:17

out everywhere. Hey,

26:20

anybody who knows, anyone

26:22

who has a large suburb, buddy,

26:24

let me know that I'll pay you

26:26

for it.

26:27

Troy Hall has been fingered as the

26:30

instigator of the hit by

26:32

every member of law enforcement I've spoken

26:34

to. While that does seem probable,

26:36

there has been no evidence that

26:38

he had any contact with Davis

26:41

or Billy Bird. Those

26:43

are simply unfounded theories.

26:46

In fact, there's been

26:48

no evidence or proof that Davis

26:50

or Bert had anything to do with his

26:52

crime. There were no fingerprints

26:54

of either man found at the

26:56

scene. There's no DNA of theirs at

26:58

the scene. There are no

27:00

eyewitnesses positively identifying either

27:03

man. For argument's sake, is it just as feasible

27:05

at this point to say that Davis was provided

27:07

with information as part of a deal,

27:09

as it is to say his

27:11

confession was legitimate. And furthermore,

27:14

Ingram said himself that Bert left

27:16

no witnesses. If he felt he

27:18

was shorted money in a robbery by

27:21

Troy Hall, Troy himself would

27:23

have been a witness. To my

27:25

2, and from everything I've learned

27:27

from Stoney, his father wasn't one to

27:29

let something like this slide. If

27:33

Troy or anyone else had set

27:35

this up and shorted burdens of

27:37

cash as Davis said, they were

27:39

dead, period.

27:41

For months,

27:44

I've been trying to get in touch

27:46

with anyone from the Durham family.

27:49

I wanted to know how they felt, how

27:51

that this case, this ever

27:53

present black cloud hovering over

27:55

them for decades, is now

27:58

closed. Did it provide the

28:00

closure that everyone hoped

28:02

it would?

28:03

Uncle Broughs and Virginia

28:06

and Bobby Go, we had

28:08

a really close family, and

28:10

I'd rather come see

28:14

and the family often.

28:17

That's Juliet

28:20

Malden. She is the niece of

28:22

Bryce Durham. And

28:24

the only family member that agreed to speak

28:26

to me for this

28:27

podcast. And I have to tell you

28:30

I I labored

28:32

on this a while because

28:34

this all I've ever

28:36

known is, you know,

28:38

the murders and

28:41

both my parents have passed away, but and,

28:43

of course, grandma and grandpa, but, like,

28:45

even on their dad said, they all

28:47

wanted it resolved. They all

28:50

wanted it, you know, because

28:53

mama would say Bryce was the best of

28:54

us. He was the best

28:57

of all of us. Though

28:59

Juliet was young at the time of

29:01

their deaths, Her family has kept the memory of

29:03

Bryce, Virginia, and Bobby

29:05

alive all these years through

29:07

sharing fond memories that family get

29:09

togethers. And visiting their graves regularly. And

29:12

I live on the

29:12

farm where my uncle

29:15

Bryce was raised and

29:18

my brother lids in the

29:20

house that my grandma and

29:22

grandpa built and where uncle Bob

29:24

grew up. Our

29:26

grandkids I have five.

29:28

My oldest granddaughter is

29:30

helping me put the flowers on their

29:32

grades

29:32

now, you know, and my

29:35

children helped me and, you

29:37

know,

29:37

we've been

29:38

working on their Christmas

29:39

flowers. I think that, you

29:42

know, just keeping their memory

29:45

alive and sharing the things

29:46

that, you know, they've been shared

29:49

with me helped me

29:51

as part of the closure

29:52

too. They were here and they did good

29:55

that they were unfortunately

29:58

taken

30:01

Juliet tells me that the family has

30:04

never really gotten over the deaths of

30:06

the Durhams. In particular, her

30:08

brother, Jeff, who was ten years

30:10

old at the time of the murders. He

30:12

was supposed to stay over with Bobby

30:14

that night, but the family decided

30:16

it wasn't a good idea once the snow

30:18

began to fall heavily.

30:20

That blizzard likely saved

30:23

Jeff's life. It

30:27

rocked it still

30:30

like a living thing. And that's

30:32

a a terrible

30:33

analogy. But it is the

30:36

murder is like, you know, it was like

30:37

a living creature. Constant.

30:40

My whole entire life

30:44

was the murder the murder.

30:46

Every cat every

30:47

weekend. That's anytime anybody

30:50

got together. Through

30:52

speaking with Juliet, I've learned

30:54

that Bryce enjoyed farming and

30:57

gardening and that Bobby was an eagle

30:59

scout, played football and had a

31:01

passion for music. And

31:03

for the first time, I'm really able to see the Durham's

31:06

as a family, as

31:09

people, not just victims of a

31:11

horrible crime, and that the family and

31:13

friends they left behind still

31:15

feel avoid. Even the

31:17

closing of the case hasn't given

31:19

them the

31:20

closure. They had hoped

31:22

for. And I

31:26

just kept waiting to fill a

31:28

sense of relief or, you know,

31:30

just that

31:31

closure. And it

31:32

was like I've lived with this so

31:35

long that I don't think,

31:37

you know, I think that it's just something that you're it's

31:40

almost like a a

31:41

habit. You just you

31:43

still feel that. can't really let it

31:46

go. You know, that this

31:47

they're still gone. You know?

31:49

I'm thankful for everyone who put

31:51

in time and and effort

31:53

for, you know, Brass and Virginia and

31:56

Bobby Joe. But

31:57

for me, I'm still

31:59

waiting for that. You know,

32:01

that side relief when you can say, okay. You

32:04

know, after seeing my mom

32:06

spend years and years

32:08

and years of her life,

32:11

dedicated to getting

32:13

it solved, getting it closed.

32:16

And grandma and

32:16

grandpa, I think that

32:19

it's almost like, you know,

32:21

I did

32:22

I didn't deserve to see that. They,

32:24

you know, they earned that they deserved to

32:26

see that closed and

32:28

for

32:28

me, I think it's just gonna be

32:31

more time to, you know,

32:33

accept that the

32:35

roller

32:35

coaster, you know, this ride is

32:38

over.

32:42

But as with any pitfall in

32:45

life, you slowly

32:47

climb out and carry

32:49

on, choosing to remember the

32:51

good in those you've lost. And

32:53

in that sense, they're

32:55

never truly gone.

32:57

On the farm here, Sean,

33:00

there are chestnut trees that

33:02

Uncle Broughs

33:03

planted. Jeff showed me one

33:06

yesterday when we were down at the barn, and

33:08

he said that you said that's true up

33:10

there. You know,

33:11

Bryce planted that. You

33:13

know, he's still with us in a

33:15

sense. He's

33:19

still very

33:20

much a

33:21

part of our lives. The

33:25

Chestnut trees on the Durham family

33:27

farm still keep their

33:29

spirits alive. The stories

33:31

of Bryce, Virginia, and

33:33

Bobby are told beneath their

33:35

branches. It

33:37

reminds me of the apple tree that

33:39

Billy Bird planted over the

33:41

grave of his beloved horse, Miller

33:43

b twist, where Stoney passed

33:45

down stories of his father,

33:47

to his grandchildren. I

33:51

guess, we all keep the ones we love with

33:53

us in

33:55

different ways. The

33:58

question of whether or not Billy Bird

34:00

and the Dixie mafia were involved

34:03

is fascinating even

34:05

today. The Durham murders were committed in

34:07

a way not necessarily consistent with

34:09

most of their previous

34:11

hits. The killers took

34:14

their time, Ransacked the house, torturing and

34:16

strangling their victims before drowning

34:18

them and arranging the bodies

34:20

in an almost

34:22

theatrical way. If

34:24

robbery was the motive, why was cash left

34:26

behind? Why was silverware taken?

34:28

Only to be left in

34:31

the getaway car? It doesn't make sense

34:33

and it truly does feel

34:36

unprofessional in

34:36

nature. But Billy Wayne

34:40

Davis did confess.

34:42

He knew of

34:46

nearby landmarks like

34:48

the Church, and told of waiting for the others in the parking lot of

34:50

a market where a car was seen by

34:52

an

34:52

eyewitness. How would he

34:54

know that? If he wasn't there,

34:57

unless he was instructed to say so as

34:59

part of a deal, which he has

35:01

done before. And honestly, in the

35:04

south, there are churches on nearly

35:06

every other corner. You could

35:08

say that anything is near a

35:10

church and it truthfully would

35:12

be. He described

35:14

Billy Bert being angered at the nephew or

35:17

son-in-law as he expected more cash

35:19

from the robbery. And Davis also

35:21

told that Bert was planning to go back

35:23

and kill that man. But again, knowing what

35:25

we know of Billy Bird, what do you have just let

35:27

this one slide?

35:30

That's doubtful. The

35:32

Durham case bears striking similarities to

35:34

the Fleming case, which occurred nearly

35:36

two years later. But the Fleming

35:39

case is one that birthed famously

35:41

denied involvement in, instead insisting that it was

35:43

Davis and Bobby Gene Gattice who had

35:45

committed those murders.

35:48

It's the only crime he's ever outright denied to my

35:51

knowledge despite having openly admitted

35:53

to so much. There is something

35:55

to say for that. 2 a

35:58

man who did not hide from the sins he had committed, why

36:01

deny that one? Unfortunately,

36:03

he's not here

36:05

to defend himself against these new

36:07

claims against him. It's only Billy Wayne Davis, and his

36:10

word, the word of

36:12

a

36:13

pathological liar, thief,

36:16

and killer.

36:17

Either way, signs

36:20

continue to point to Troy Hall

36:22

as the man who initiated

36:24

the

36:24

hit. Whether he planned

36:26

for the derms to be killed or not,

36:28

we'll never

36:29

know. But the fact that he benefited

36:32

financially from this murder and

36:34

potentially others says a

36:36

lot that he was so distraught

36:38

over the one dollar will of price

36:39

terms, speaks

36:42

volumes. And

36:47

Stoney. Stoney will continue

36:50

to believe his father is

36:52

innocent of

36:54

this crime. No matter what. And maybe he's

36:56

right. He and his

36:58

father shared a bond, an

37:00

open relationship that

37:02

exposed Stoney to knowledge of the

37:04

inner workings of Billy Sunday

37:06

Bert, his Dixie mafia,

37:08

and crimes they had committed that

37:10

no one else was

37:12

privy to. Billy Bird was certainly more than

37:14

capable of this crime, but being

37:16

capable and being guilty

37:18

are two different things. Why

37:21

would this be the one murder he

37:23

decided to never mention to Stoney?

37:25

But instead, tell his youngest

37:27

son about on one of his

37:29

few prison visits. 2

37:31

wonder how many times will

37:34

Stoney put himself out

37:36

there defending his father.

37:39

My soulotive and even talking about this case knowing

37:41

that it's gonna be out there for that

37:43

family, brothers' family.

37:47

The whole family everybody

37:50

did I say never word I say.

37:52

And that might

37:54

have seen me sticking my nose into it.

37:57

But my soul

37:57

emojis is because my father

38:00

has no one defend

38:03

him except me. The

38:06

answer clearly is

38:09

as many times as

38:11

it takes. And it takes guts to do that, to

38:14

stand up for what he believes

38:16

in, regardless of what anyone

38:18

else

38:19

thinks. That still after all is said

38:22

and done, he believes

38:25

in his father. The

38:30

legend and lore

38:32

of the Dixie mafia only

38:34

grows deeper and more curious,

38:37

the more we dig. And though

38:39

the Dixie mafia as we know it

38:41

is long gone, that collection

38:43

of thieves and

38:46

killers whiskey men, and

38:48

gangsters. One thing still

38:51

lives

38:51

on, their

38:53

stories. And while on different

38:56

sides of this history, one family

38:58

sits beneath an apple tree,

39:00

another, beneath the branches

39:02

of a chestnut tree.

39:05

Both keeping their loved ones alive

39:08

through those same stories.

39:11

And me? Well, I'm

39:16

gonna keep telling them too.

39:51

In the red clay is a production

39:53

of imperative entertainment. It was created,

39:56

written, and reported by me,

39:58

Sean Kape, and I wrote and

40:00

recorded the original music score. Executive producers are Jason Hoke and

40:02

Gino falsetto. Story editor

40:05

is Jason Hoke. Sound designed by Shane

40:07

Freeman, cover art and design by Gina Sullivan.

40:10

Season two of In The Red Clay,

40:12

2, is a six episode

40:14

series with new episodes available

40:16

every Monday. To keep up

40:18

with this and my other podcasts, follow

40:20

me on social media at seancutt.

40:23

Have questions? Email us at

40:25

podcasts at imperative entertainment dot

40:28

com. If you like the series, tell your

40:30

friends and leave us a review. Thanks

40:32

for listening.