0:00

All right, here today with Sean Cow,

0:02

how you doing, man? Good, thanks

0:04

for having me on. Yeah,

0:06

thanks. Aquatic sports performance, man.

0:08

Tell us, tell us about

0:11

your business. So we're in

0:13

a business, we primarily train

0:15

swimmers and water pol athletes.

0:17

We have a handful of

0:19

like volleyball, baseball, other athletes,

0:22

but our primary. Yeah, I'm

0:24

still there. Keep going. Oh, you're

0:26

still here. OK. Our primary focus

0:28

is aquatic sports, so swimmers and

0:31

water polo players. I myself swam

0:33

my basically my whole life started

0:35

swimming when I was five. So

0:37

I've been doing this for 25

0:40

years now and did the whole

0:42

club swimming thing here in California.

0:44

So I'm at a club called

0:46

Fullerton Aquatic Sports Team Fast. And

0:49

then swam in college at Arizona

0:51

State. Did that for four years

0:53

my senior year was actually Bob's

0:55

first year and so brought along you

0:57

know Keenan Robinson Obviously MP and those

0:59

those guys and I asked him and

1:01

I was like hey Can I can

1:03

I do an internship under you my

1:05

my senior year and he was kind

1:07

enough to say yes, and I learned a

1:09

lot from him basically got to

1:11

watch that entire program prepare for

1:14

the Rio Olympics. And I was

1:16

also interning for Arizona State sports

1:18

performance. So I was working with,

1:20

you know, their wrestling team, basketball

1:22

team, football, cross country. So I

1:25

got to see a lot of

1:27

different aspects from the sports performance

1:29

side. And then when I graduated,

1:31

I got my degree in exercise

1:34

science and then I graduated from

1:36

my undergrad. I went to grad

1:38

school at Arizona State. also did

1:40

my graduate studies in exercise science,

1:43

and then got a job as

1:45

a strength coach at a local

1:47

sports performance facility. And after

1:49

I graduated, moved back to California

1:52

and started coaching at my home

1:54

club team at Fast. And while

1:57

I was a swim coach, I

1:59

started aquatic. sports performance kind of

2:01

as a side business out of my

2:03

parents garage. I was just training a

2:05

couple kids for free and ended up

2:08

growing to a point where I had

2:10

to leave my swim coaching position. Now

2:12

I just do this full time. Wow,

2:14

that's awesome. And you're working with us

2:17

at TST, which is awesome. You're you're

2:19

helping some of my pros out and

2:21

you've been awesome. I wish you're like...

2:23

15 minutes closer because we would be

2:25

working together every day. Yeah, I wish,

2:28

I wish too. Yeah, no, I love

2:30

it. I love your attitude towards, I

2:32

love, I love your background and the

2:34

fact that you swam and still swam

2:36

and still keep super fit, understand the

2:39

sport really well as an athlete trying

2:41

to. you know I think as athletes

2:43

we try and find how to get

2:45

the best out of our career and

2:47

over time you know you watch and

2:50

observe and you learn and I think

2:52

you've done plenty of that you did

2:54

mention Phelps there at one stage and

2:56

I've asked a lot of people about

2:58

what it was like training with Phelps

3:01

in the pool and you know their

3:03

opinion of him and how it was

3:05

never really asked anyone of what it

3:07

was like to watch Phelps in the

3:09

gym and and the value that he

3:12

put on him and Keenan. and the

3:14

type of work he was doing, I

3:16

think that's important for kids to understand

3:18

that too, that Michael wasn't just swimming,

3:20

he was working out hard in the

3:23

gym too, right? Yeah, for sure. I

3:25

think the one thing that I picked

3:27

up from him was like, when it

3:29

was time to lift, he was very

3:31

focused on the task at hand. There

3:34

was not a whole lot of messing

3:36

around, but when he was lifting, he

3:38

was lifting. outside of like during the

3:40

rest periods and stuff he'd be very

3:42

friendly he'd be joking around and stuff

3:45

and he was super super nice to

3:47

me like you know you would think

3:49

like oh this guy's just an intern

3:51

like just treat him like crap or

3:53

whatever but he treated me like a

3:56

normal person and I learned a lot

3:58

from that process. Tell me tell me

4:00

then about the value that Keenan and

4:02

Michael did put on the strength side.

4:04

I mean obviously Michael's more in that

4:07

middle distance range people would say right

4:09

like he's swimming you know two hundreds

4:11

primarily you know up to four hundred

4:13

I am down to a hundred freestyle

4:15

so he was kind of a hundred

4:18

fly obviously so he's all over the

4:20

place but what type of value did

4:22

they put on that in the lead

4:24

up to Rio? I think the biggest

4:26

thing I learned and took away from

4:29

that, I think in the pro group

4:31

there was, I can't remember, but there

4:33

was like 10, 15 athletes, something like

4:35

that, but everyone was doing their own

4:38

thing. So like Michael obviously had his

4:40

own program, Chase had his own thing,

4:42

Allison had her own thing, and that's

4:44

something that I picked up from Keenan

4:46

was, you have to meet the individual

4:49

where they're at, because you can have

4:51

two different, like, I always use this

4:53

example, but. You could have two different

4:55

breast sugars. One breast shoker, they could

4:57

have an extremely high vertical jump. The

5:00

second breast sugar, they could jump like

5:02

four inches, right? And they're both breast

5:04

shokers. They both swung the 200 breaststroke,

5:06

but you would probably have to train

5:08

them a little bit differently. And I

5:11

think that's where we, or that's why

5:13

I took away from Keenan and I

5:15

try to implement into our business is

5:17

really try to individualize training programs for

5:19

each athlete, no matter what the ages.

5:22

I've always thought like, you know, I

5:24

mean, obviously it's hard in a club

5:26

setting where you have to manage 40

5:28

athletes at once, but I think that's

5:30

the cool part of our business model

5:33

is we can provide that, you know,

5:35

extremely high level of service and value

5:37

to our normal everyday club bath plate.

5:39

So like our 12 year old is

5:41

doing a program that's specific for 12

5:44

year old, you know, our. 19 year

5:46

olds when they come back from college,

5:48

they're able to train at the same

5:50

time as a 13 year old athlete,

5:52

but they're doing completely different things because

5:55

it wouldn't make sense for them to

5:57

do the same thing, you know. Yeah,

5:59

yeah. One of our things at our

6:01

school at Auburn when I was coaching

6:03

there is that our strength coach really

6:06

wanted our athletes to come in kind

6:08

of a clean slate. He didn't

6:10

want to have to recorrect techniques,

6:12

he didn't have to want to

6:14

retrain things. He wanted to start

6:16

almost from scratch, you know, from

6:18

the age of 1718 when they

6:20

were coming into college to kind

6:22

of really program them into strength

6:25

training. That is obviously shifted

6:27

now. There's... people doing strength

6:29

training at younger ages with

6:31

high quality people like yourself.

6:33

So tell me what is the progression

6:35

these days when when do kids start

6:37

strength training and and what does that

6:40

look like at what ages? Yeah so I

6:42

think like it depends on how you

6:44

define strength training right like people

6:46

think when they think when they

6:48

hear the word strength training they

6:50

think like back squatting four or

6:52

five deadlifting 500 pounds but like

6:54

I have a one year old

6:56

and a two year old. I

6:58

have them strength training, right? Like

7:00

I'm having them crawl on the

7:02

ground, I have them do handstands,

7:04

I have them do flips, like

7:06

technically that's also exerting force on

7:08

an external object, which is the

7:10

ground. So I would also consider

7:12

that strange training. In our business,

7:15

we have a youth sports performance

7:17

program for athletes from seven to

7:19

11. So the youngest. age we

7:21

start at is seven. And those

7:24

kids there, you know, we're having

7:26

them crawl, sprint, throw medicine

7:28

balls. We're teaching them basic body

7:30

weight movements, like how to do

7:33

a body weight squat, how do

7:35

you hold a lunch, you know,

7:37

how do you hang from a bar? One

7:39

of the things that I see with,

7:41

or I guess it's a little

7:44

bit problematic is, you know,

7:46

kids are specializing so early that

7:48

like... I have kids that, you know,

7:50

they come to us when they're 14,

7:52

and all they've ever done from the

7:54

age of five is swim. So they've

7:56

never interacted with gravity, and so, you know,

7:59

when they, when they... first, you know, when

8:01

they're learning how to hold a

8:03

lunch, like, they're super unstable because

8:05

they've never had to do it.

8:07

And so my job actually is

8:09

really easy. Like, all I have

8:11

to do is teach them how

8:13

to stabilize their body, teach them

8:15

how to interact with gravity, and,

8:17

and then they get, and then

8:19

they get faster. But all I

8:21

did was teach in the basics.

8:23

Sounds like even just general athleticism,

8:25

doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're

8:27

just, you know, you know, sprinting.

8:29

jumping over boxes jumping over hurdles

8:31

like just teaching them how to

8:33

move their body you know which

8:35

is normally what kids would have

8:37

gotten in in the playground right

8:39

like and it seems like we've

8:41

moved away from playground activity I'm

8:43

look I'm not in I'm not

8:45

in primary schools and things on

8:47

that but I can't charge every

8:49

school but it does seem there's

8:51

been a shift away from play

8:53

in schools doesn't there Yeah, I

8:55

think we're the, we're the generation,

8:58

like this upcoming generation is the

9:00

generation that's spending the least time

9:02

outdoors. And to me, that's a

9:04

little bit problematic, especially for aquatic

9:06

athletes, because if you're playing soccer,

9:08

like, or basketball, you know, you're

9:10

usually doing multiple sports or you're

9:12

getting exposure to a variety of

9:14

movements, but for some reason in

9:16

swimming and water polo, like people

9:18

just want to specialize because they

9:20

think, you know, you know, if

9:22

my son Johnny is starting at

9:24

five years old, you know, you

9:26

know, you know, you know, I

9:28

think that, you know, couldn't be

9:30

further from the truth. I'm a

9:32

big believer in doing some sort

9:34

of like gymnastics, martial arts, or

9:36

dance before the age of six.

9:38

Every athlete that I've had that,

9:40

you know, they're extremely athletic, they

9:42

have extremely well kinesthetic awareness and

9:44

I asked him, hey, what's your

9:46

background? Oh, I did dance when

9:48

I was five years old. Oh,

9:50

I did gymnastics when I was

9:52

six years old. I'm like, huh.

9:54

And that's a trend that I've

9:56

seen over and over and over

9:58

and over and over and over.

10:00

And so my son turns three

10:02

in January, like he, I'm taking

10:04

him straight to the gymnastics class.

10:06

And I'll take him to my

10:08

Jesuits school too. But yeah, like,

10:10

I think, one of the main

10:12

reasons we started this youth sports

10:14

performance. sports performance program is to

10:16

kind of combat this early sports

10:18

specialization. Because I think parents are

10:20

a little bit afraid, you know,

10:22

to put their kid in soccer

10:25

or whatever. So we kind of

10:27

disguise it as like a second

10:29

sport so that they're not specializing

10:31

in swimming too early. Like it's,

10:33

it's, I think of it as

10:35

its own sport. And so to

10:37

help combat that early sports specialization.

10:39

real strength training, like where they're

10:41

actually moving weight, pushing weight, lifting

10:43

weight, as opposed to just pulling

10:45

their body weight and, you know,

10:47

athleticism and jumps and push-ups, pull-ups,

10:49

things like that. In terms of

10:51

real strength training, where they are

10:53

moving weights, when does that start?

10:55

How do you figure that part

10:57

of it out? It really depends

10:59

on the athlete. Like I have

11:01

12 year old girls who, you

11:03

know, they just matured, their body

11:05

matured faster. And so it's really

11:07

an individual by individual decision because

11:09

I have, you know, 14 year

11:11

old boys who, who, you know,

11:13

they can't control their own body

11:15

weight. And I have 12 year

11:17

old girls who are. extremely well

11:19

off in terms of kinesthetic awareness.

11:21

So I play it on an

11:23

individual by individual basis. Like I

11:25

don't have like, okay, all the

11:27

12 year olds are doing this,

11:29

all the 14 year olds are

11:31

doing that. I take it by

11:33

individual and if I can see

11:35

that. They can hold an ISO

11:37

split squat. So an ISO split

11:39

squat is like a lunge where

11:41

they're holding their back knee like

11:43

two inches off the floor. And

11:45

they can hold that for like

11:47

30 seconds on each leg and

11:50

they're pretty stable. They're not shaking.

11:52

Then I say, okay, they're probably

11:54

ready for like, let's say a

11:56

two dumbbell reverse lunge. If I

11:58

have a kid, they can hold,

12:00

you know, a 30 second ISO

12:02

chin up. So an ISO chin

12:04

is just holding the bar like

12:06

this at the top position. to

12:08

start doing chin-ups. If a kid

12:10

can do 10 perfect bodyweight push-ups,

12:12

okay, maybe we're ready for some

12:14

kind of vertical pressing variation with

12:16

a kettle well. So I really

12:18

look at the bodyweight movements first

12:20

and I determine, okay, are they

12:22

stable when they move their joints?

12:24

Like can they really stabilize and

12:26

own that position? As soon as

12:28

they can, then I'll start slowly

12:30

introducing the weights. for the deadlift,

12:32

for example, like I'm not having

12:34

our progression system, I'm not having

12:36

kids trap our deadlift 95 pounds

12:38

off the bat. So what I

12:40

do is I teach them how

12:42

to hip hinge first, which is

12:44

a prerequisite for the deadlift. It's

12:46

basically moving where they're just moving

12:48

their hips back and forth to

12:50

pick the weight up. And I

12:52

start with teaching them how to

12:54

hipage. And then I'll start with

12:56

a kettlebell deadlift with like 35,

12:58

44 pounds. I use a kettlebell

13:00

deadlift with a band. So the

13:02

band goes around their waist and

13:04

then they have to push their

13:06

hips forward against the band. So

13:08

it reinforces that hip movement pattern.

13:10

And then we'll start with like

13:12

a 35 pound kettlebell. We'll work

13:14

up to 44 pounds, 53 pounds.

13:17

And then we'll go to a

13:19

trap our deadlift with 65 pounds.

13:21

And then from there, it's just,

13:23

you know, over time, like if

13:25

they can pick up more weight,

13:27

we'll pick up more weight. And

13:29

as soon as their technique starts

13:31

to break down, we'll bring the

13:33

way back down. But I try

13:35

not to rush that process. Like

13:37

I think a lot of people,

13:39

hey, I want to start deadlifting

13:41

200 pounds right away, but then

13:43

they sacrifice technique. And I always

13:45

say technique is technique over everything.

13:47

Like I don't care how much

13:49

you lift if your technique looks

13:51

like due to do. So. I

13:53

just always make sure, hey, like,

13:55

let's keep, let's stay out of

13:57

weight where your technique looks good.

13:59

And then as soon as, you

14:01

know, you feel like you can

14:03

go heavier, we'll go heavier if

14:05

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swimpriders.com. How much of the conditioning

14:25

part comes into this? You know,

14:27

we've always lobbed, well, put together

14:29

the strength and conditioning, that's what

14:31

we call it, right? So like

14:33

the strength side. the strength side

14:35

is what it is, and then

14:37

there's certain conditioning. What does conditioning

14:39

look like outside of the pool,

14:42

and how do you match that

14:44

up with what they're doing in

14:46

the pool? So we actually just

14:48

made a post a couple months

14:50

ago on this. It kind of

14:52

did well. I said aquatic athletes

14:54

don't need strength in conditioning training.

14:56

They need strength and mobility training.

14:58

So strength and conditioning is a

15:00

catch-all term that the industry uses

15:02

for, you know, football, basketball, baseball,

15:04

all those sports. Swimming and water

15:06

polo is special in that the

15:08

sport and conditioning happen at the

15:10

same time. When you're when you're

15:12

working technique, when you're doing drills,

15:14

your heart rates up there, so

15:16

technically, you know, you would consider

15:18

that zone two aerobicobic work. So

15:20

Conditioning work already is happening in

15:22

the pool. And my job is

15:24

to give athletes what they're not

15:26

getting in the pool, which is

15:28

strength and mobility training. So I'm

15:30

trying to get the industry to

15:32

catch on to a new term

15:34

instead of strength and conditioning. I

15:36

would like us to refer to

15:38

strength and mobility training because that's

15:40

basically what we do. We assess

15:42

every individual to find out where

15:44

their specific mobility weaknesses are. Let's

15:46

say a kid has hyper mobile

15:48

hips, but hypo mobile shoulders, then

15:50

we would program in a way

15:52

where we're really attacking shoulder mobility

15:54

over hip mobility. And then we're

15:56

doing strength work on top of

15:58

that. So. to keep it simple,

16:01

we're basically not doing any

16:03

conditioning work at our facility. Okay,

16:05

that makes sense. Yeah, I was going to

16:07

ask. Unless there's some special reason,

16:09

you know, they just got surgery

16:11

or something and they can't be

16:13

in the pool or they got

16:15

an ear infection or something and

16:17

they can't get in the pool.

16:19

Then I'll consider some conditioning work.

16:21

Right. Now the mobility issue is

16:23

kind of twofold too. It happens.

16:25

through a natural maturation, right? Like

16:27

you're going through your natural growth

16:30

cycles and things like that, and

16:32

as you mature, you're going to,

16:34

the mobility is going to change,

16:36

you know, from an 11-year-old to

16:38

a 15-year-old, and then as you

16:40

get stronger too, and as you're

16:42

working in the gym, that mobility

16:44

is going to need work in

16:46

on itself. So it's kind of,

16:48

you look at it from both

16:50

those angles in terms, in terms

16:52

you're making, right? Yeah, for sure. Like

16:54

especially like boys going through puberty, something

16:56

happens where like they, they, because they're

16:59

growing so fast, they like can't figure

17:01

out their body in space and you

17:03

do see a temporary decrease in mobility,

17:06

but I think if you just keep

17:08

it up, like it's one of those

17:10

user or lose it type things, like

17:13

you just gotta keep doing it every

17:15

day. And so every time an athlete

17:17

comes in where. if they're if they

17:19

need it, then we're doing some

17:21

sort of mobility work. Like some

17:23

kids, they're super hyper mobile. We

17:25

just posted a video of a

17:28

kid who can hold his hands

17:30

here and then he can go

17:32

all the way up around and

17:34

go to his back without letting

17:36

his hands go. Like that kid

17:38

obviously wouldn't need any shoulder mobility

17:40

work. Like that would probably be

17:42

more harmful than good for him. Yeah,

17:44

before it's too light too. Let's mention

17:47

that way. Yep, yep, yep, right and

17:49

any other places they can find some

17:51

of your stuff Just if you Google

17:53

Aquatic Sports performance, we should

17:55

come up Yeah, you got website

17:58

and all that sort of stuff too Yeah.

18:00

One of the things that I had

18:02

to do with as a kid was

18:04

the fact that I was a late

18:07

maturer, right? And it frustrated the hell

18:09

out of me, right? Like I just

18:11

wasn't growing, I couldn't put on weight,

18:13

like I struggle to keep weight on

18:16

my body, my metabolism was super fast,

18:18

I was really skinny, just wasn't strong,

18:20

probably wasn't very mobile at the time,

18:23

didn't know much about mobility anyway. But

18:25

just felt like I was lagging behind

18:27

everybody and it was super frustrating for

18:30

me. You know, like I would compete

18:32

against these kids that were more mature,

18:34

that bigger, that had more mobility, had

18:36

more strength and it frustrated me, frustrated

18:39

me, frustrated me, frustrated me, frustrated me.

18:41

And then eventually I hit this growth

18:43

spirit and I thought to myself, oh

18:46

wow, that's what it feels like. It's

18:48

going to even out like now I'm

18:50

going to catch people. What I noticed

18:52

that first is my, the way that

18:55

I felt about myself. then they started

18:57

to feel like that about themselves because

18:59

they saw me going through this growth

19:02

spirit me getting faster they were kind

19:04

of plateauing out so it it kind

19:06

of evened itself out after a while

19:09

and almost had like a psychological advantage

19:11

over some people because they had matured

19:13

a little bit early so I'm sure

19:15

you deal with this all the time

19:18

right? Yeah I always tell the kids

19:20

who are always telling you know comparing

19:22

themselves to the other athletes as comparisons

19:25

a thief of joy you know and

19:27

I I also think it's a little

19:29

bit of a tragedy that a lot

19:31

of athletes, they don't really reach their

19:34

potential because you have to make a

19:36

decision, at least in the US, when

19:38

you're 1718, you either go on to

19:41

compete in college or you quit because

19:43

you're not good enough. But I think

19:45

we're missing a lot of talent of

19:48

kids who are going to do well

19:50

when they're 2324. But they're just like

19:52

you, like they weren't there yet at

19:54

1718. Yeah, and so our slogan is

19:57

pursue potential and that's something I believe

19:59

like deep in my bones because like

20:01

I'm I'm doing it too, like I'm

20:04

30 years old now, like I'm still

20:06

training pretty hard. I wanna see, like

20:08

I don't wanna get to 85 years

20:10

old and wonder like, could I have

20:13

gone 19 in the 50 free? I'm

20:15

20.2 right now, I wanna go 19.

20:17

But like I don't wanna be 85

20:20

and be like, huh, like could I

20:22

have done it? I don't know. So

20:24

like, I believe, you know, not everyone

20:26

is going to go compete at the

20:29

Olympics. Not everyone's going to go to

20:31

world championships. But I think everyone has

20:33

the right to pursue their potential. And

20:36

that's why we made that our slogan.

20:38

And yeah, I feel like even, you

20:40

know, even if you don't serve in

20:43

college, I think if you, if you

20:45

really enjoy the sport. You can you

20:47

can still there's a lot of schools

20:49

where you can go on to do

20:52

club swimming or they have college club

20:54

teams like there's there are still a

20:56

lot of options where you can compete

20:59

Even your high after your high school

21:01

years. So I would encourage a lot

21:03

of athletes like if you weren't fast

21:05

enough your senior year of high school

21:08

and you were kind of forced to

21:10

quit swimming, like find a way to

21:12

continue swimming, like I'm sure you can

21:15

find a local master's team, you can,

21:17

you know, find a local club team,

21:19

they'll probably take you in, because, like,

21:22

especially for boys, you know, like, we

21:24

don't really reach our peak until we're,

21:26

I don't know, 25, 27, 27, We

21:28

just filmed a blog with a master's

21:31

athlete and Mario Marshall and he was

21:33

telling us he went all his best

21:35

times when he was 35. I was

21:38

like, whoa, you know, that really pushes

21:40

the envelope on what we thought was

21:42

possible and obviously Anthony Urban winning that

21:44

gold medal when he was 35. the

21:47

Brazilian butterflyer, he's sent in world records

21:49

at 41 or whatever, right? So I

21:51

think we really got to, there's still

21:54

a lot of untapped potential, you know,

21:56

left to pursue for all these high

21:58

school athletes. Yeah, well, what about you

22:01

then? You know, you talk about 20.2

22:03

and wanting to go 19. Tell us

22:05

what you're doing for yourself and how

22:07

you're trying to get there. I mean,

22:10

you're talking two tenths. It seems easy,

22:12

right? But it's a long way and

22:14

it's a lot. So what are some

22:17

of the things you're doing for yourself?

22:19

Well, I'm coming to train with you.

22:21

Not enough. We need you there more

22:23

often. Yeah, yeah. No, I need to

22:26

come out more. The only thing is

22:28

it takes me like an hour to

22:30

get to you. So that's the hard

22:33

part. And I got to get babysitters

22:35

and stuff. I'm just making excuses. But

22:37

no, no, shout out, shout out to

22:40

you and the Sprint Revolution. Like if

22:42

you're serious about competing in 2028, like

22:44

definitely come check out Brett and Lake

22:46

Forest. We did a great work out

22:49

this morning. You would have loved it.

22:51

It was 825s from the blocks on

22:53

on around seven or eight minutes. The

22:56

sun was out because it's daylight saving

22:58

beautiful sunshine, you know, 8 o'clock in

23:00

the morning and just doing 25s, but

23:02

being consistent, it was a consistent kick

23:05

count, breakout, you know, stroke count, you

23:07

know, doing everything consistently well, but just

23:09

trying to find that 100th. and repeating

23:12

it eight times and being as consistent

23:14

as possible and we had a we

23:16

had a point two threshold so you

23:19

know from the first one whatever you

23:21

recorded on the first one let's say

23:23

it was 9.2 you weren't allowed to

23:25

go over 9.4 otherwise the workout was

23:28

done so you had to stay within

23:30

that point two threshold and and they

23:32

did it was great great workout but

23:35

just seeing them trying to find that

23:37

space of like, okay, how can I

23:39

get a couple of hundreds here, you

23:41

know, and that's where you're at. You're

23:44

looking for those two tents. And that's

23:46

what it is. It's just repetitive discipline,

23:48

you know, consistent, repetitive discipline, and then

23:51

finding those little nuances that are going

23:53

to make the difference, you know, so

23:55

yeah, you would have loved that workout.

23:58

Yeah, that's a great auto regulation workout.

24:00

And people think like sprint train, oh,

24:02

it's way easier than distance training, but

24:04

like, like that nine point, you know,

24:07

that threshold of point two, like that

24:09

stuff, I bet by the sixth or

24:11

seventh, 25, like you can be hurting,

24:14

you know. The only issue with, sorry,

24:16

you're good? No, I was going to

24:18

say for sure. Yeah, we talk about

24:20

we talk about distance from is holding

24:23

pace and that's what sprinters do is

24:25

just holding pace. It's just you're holding

24:27

you're holding a top speed, you know,

24:30

that's all. Right, right. Yeah, you need

24:32

a lot of rest to do. The

24:34

only issue I see with that kind

24:37

of training is you have to be

24:39

able to truly recruit your nervous system

24:41

to make it effective, you know, right.

24:43

Like I think 12 year old athletes

24:46

like they could benefit from that and

24:48

they could learn how to maximally recruit

24:50

their nervous system but I don't think

24:53

it'll be as potent for them as

24:55

it is for you know a 25

24:57

or 30 year old male like yeah

24:59

like I can make myself throw up

25:02

after 250s right you know because I

25:04

just know how to maximally recruit my

25:06

nervous system but we came close to

25:09

that on the audio when we did

25:11

that 50 I came pretty close I

25:13

was just telling you before the podcast

25:16

we did a 50 kick for time

25:18

and I kicked yesterday and my leg

25:20

trip still still shot a little bit.

25:22

But I think that's because yeah just

25:25

you can if you can maximally recruit

25:27

you know you need a little bit

25:29

more recovery time too. I think Charlie

25:32

Francis Ben Johnson's coach. and track and

25:34

field. I think he said like they

25:36

only do one like really hard spring

25:38

workout like every like seven to ten

25:41

days or something because then Ben needed

25:43

that much recovery time between each maximal

25:45

effort and all and in between they

25:48

just did drills and you know lighter

25:50

aerobic stuff and that kind of thing.

25:52

Right yeah which is which is what

25:55

we do too and I think that

25:57

gets overlooked sometimes a lot of people

25:59

think it's just about speed work that

26:01

we don't. The speed work truly is

26:04

about 30% of what we do. You

26:06

know, a lot of it is light

26:08

recovery swimming, it is drilling, it

26:10

is skill work, we do a

26:12

lot of skill work, and then,

26:14

you know, we do a lot of

26:17

resisted speed too, so it's not

26:19

at full pace all the time,

26:21

you know, some of the resisted

26:23

speed. is that different percentages. You

26:25

know, we might be doing something

26:28

at 60%, 80%, 90%, 90% 95,

26:30

and then 100 max speed. So

26:32

there are different paces that

26:34

go with that as well. But what

26:36

we do cut out with pure sprinters,

26:39

and I think that's changing

26:41

in swimming as well now. You've

26:43

got guys like you who are

26:45

just trying to get faster at

26:47

the 50 and trying to get a

26:49

certain time in one event, and

26:52

then there's the... you know the NCAA

26:54

athletes who are going to swim you

26:56

know 12 events and premiums finals in

26:58

in three days and they're going to

27:00

sprint you know over a three day

27:02

period and they're going to swim multiple

27:04

strokes multiple events and and they and they

27:06

need that so there's different ways to

27:08

look at sprinting and what you're actually

27:11

trying to get out of it as well so

27:13

there's different ways to come at it you

27:15

know there's that pure just trying to find

27:17

Max speed and then there's that

27:19

endurance speed that you want to be

27:22

able to sustain and recover from so

27:24

yeah There's there's many different ways to

27:26

look at speed training and I'm really

27:29

fascinated with it right now I'm actually

27:31

headed out today after we finish this

27:33

podcast here I'm headed out to

27:35

Finland to talk to 40 of the top

27:37

coaches in Finland and do a presentation on

27:39

speed and what I love about Where we're

27:42

at now in the world of swimming

27:44

is that people are really trying to

27:46

study speed It's not just a matter

27:48

of I'm going to throw some fast

27:50

swims at the end of you know

27:52

a practice and that's my speed training

27:54

People are really trying to study it

27:56

harder now and understand it and

27:58

And I and I like that they're valuing

28:00

it. That's the word I was looking

28:03

for like they're valuing speed now as

28:05

as much as they would, you know,

28:07

endurance training in the past. So, so

28:09

I love that aspect of it. Yeah,

28:11

the gold medal weighs the same regardless

28:13

of event. Yeah, still gold. I've always

28:16

thought that, you know, yeah. But yeah,

28:18

I want to, the technique element is

28:20

I think super important. I just want

28:22

to touch on really quick because I

28:24

did that one practice with you and

28:26

we were working on that 50 stroke

28:29

where I think my my fault is

28:31

when I do the 50 stroke and

28:33

when I'm practicing it slowly I spend

28:35

a little bit too much time with

28:37

my hand up here and then you

28:39

told me to just kind of like

28:42

just cycle your arms through faster where

28:44

you're not spending too much time here.

28:46

And I think I had that habit

28:48

from just swimming 10 grand like all

28:50

the time. I came from a high

28:52

volume background. So I had to conserve

28:55

energy by just, you know, hanging out

28:57

here for a little bit longer. And

28:59

you told me to, as soon as

29:01

my hand hit, like, just go right

29:03

into your stroke. And that initially felt

29:05

like so awkward to me. But I,

29:08

you know, I kept thinking about it,

29:10

thinking about it, even when I wasn't

29:12

in the water thinking about it, thinking

29:14

about it, thinking about it. And then

29:16

I kept playing with it, playing with

29:18

it, playing with it. And then one

29:21

day, it kind of like finally clicked.

29:23

And I was like, oh, this is

29:25

what Brett was talking about. That's the

29:27

day when I posted it. But yeah,

29:29

in my 20, it's so interesting. I've

29:31

been swimming for 25 years. I've been

29:34

coaching for 25 years. I've been coaching

29:36

for 25 years. I've been coaching for

29:38

25 years. I've been coaching for 25

29:40

years. I've been coaching for 25 years.

29:42

I've been coaching for 25 years. I've

29:44

been coaching for 25 years. I've been

29:47

coaching for 25 years. I've been coaching

29:49

for 25 years. I've been coaching for

29:51

25 years. I've been coaching for 25

29:53

years. Yeah, and I think that's, you

29:55

know, credit to your eye, like, I

29:57

never even thought of that. I've had

30:00

no coach tell me about it, but

30:02

credit to you, like, I think you

30:04

were able to, your eye is better

30:06

trained than mine. I think coaches, you

30:08

have to train your eye to see

30:10

what looks weird or what, you know,

30:13

what looks off. And thanks to your

30:15

eye, you're able to, you know, give

30:17

me that little pointer and now. I

30:19

think there's something there to my stroke

30:21

now that I didn't have before. So

30:23

I'm very excited about that. It's interesting,

30:26

yeah, you say that, because I do

30:28

take it for granted sometimes. I do

30:30

understand how I've trained my eye and

30:32

when I think back to my history

30:34

of coaching and the people that were

30:36

mentoring me and the athletes I got

30:39

to work with, I understand, I remember

30:41

how I felt back then, I couldn't

30:43

see things. as clearly as I see

30:45

them now. And sometimes I look at

30:47

other people, I'm like, you can't see

30:50

that, you know, and I'm thinking to

30:52

myself, well, then I remember I've trained

30:54

myself to think, to see these things.

30:56

But they're very, very clear to me

30:58

now, like I can see little nuances

31:00

that other people can't see, and I

31:03

can help people try and get that

31:05

understanding, but it does take time to,

31:07

even with the adjustment of me telling

31:09

you how to do it and what

31:11

I'm looking for, that moment where it

31:13

clicks for you, you're like, oh, that's

31:16

what he's talking about, right? And so

31:18

there is that, but it is, you

31:20

know, I was, I was look at

31:22

freestyle swimming now and speed swimming as

31:24

you're coming from, it's almost like a

31:26

triathlon, right? Like you're coming from the

31:29

swim. to the run and there's a

31:31

transition in there and I call that

31:33

the rest stop right like from the

31:35

swim to run you're still doing a

31:37

triathlon but there's a moment in there

31:39

there's a little rest stop because you're

31:42

transitioning out of your wet suit into

31:44

your running shoes and that's what I

31:46

that's what I call the the rest

31:48

spot in freestyle it's like people people

31:50

looking for that length and they get

31:52

that length out in front and then

31:55

the hand just pauses and then the

31:57

hand just pauses and they wait to

31:59

catch up they wait to catch up

32:01

and they come over the top and

32:03

then it's like this transition period and

32:05

then they go again. and that's what

32:08

I see is like this this rest

32:10

stop in freestyle and what you can't

32:12

have in in full blown speed swimming

32:14

is is any rest points you know

32:16

like it's got to be it's got

32:18

to be connection to connection to connection

32:21

like you're always holding and moving and

32:23

pulling water and shifting it and just

32:25

it is a little less efficient right

32:27

than like gliding and and running that

32:29

line but yeah that's the biggest challenge.

32:31

At the beginning I was like, whoa,

32:34

this is really awkward. Like I don't

32:36

feel stable, like I don't have my

32:38

anchor point. Like I just feel like

32:40

I'm like falling almost. But I think

32:42

it just takes repetition to get used

32:44

to. And it's funny, like after we

32:47

talked about that and I watched swimming

32:49

videos, like you posted that video Fred

32:51

this morning, every time I watch an

32:53

elite printer, like I see that now.

32:55

I never saw it in my life.

32:57

Yeah, it's interesting when you catch on

33:00

to it. You're like, oh, that's it,

33:02

right? Yeah, it makes a lot of

33:04

sense. Welcome to the Sprint Revolution School.

33:06

This is the culmination of my life's

33:08

work. Everything I've learned coaching some of

33:10

the world's elite athletes, including Caesar Ciello,

33:13

Fred Busquet, Bruno Frattis, and leading my

33:15

Auburn team to the NCAA championship in

33:17

2009 alongside the legend Richard Quick. Now

33:19

all of that knowledge is available to

33:21

you. Our program is structured into easy

33:23

to follow interactive modules designed to take

33:26

you from where you are today to

33:28

becoming the fastest swimmer you've ever been.

33:30

Check out the link in the description

33:32

or simply search the Sprint Revolution on

33:34

school.com to get started. Yeah, so that's

33:36

cool. In terms of the business right

33:39

now, you're in a position where you're

33:41

renting some space to you. ultimately want

33:43

to have your own gym, you think?

33:45

Yeah, that's the goal. We had that

33:47

goal last year. I talked to 85

33:49

different commercial buildings, all warehouse-style buildings, and

33:52

they all told me no. We got

33:54

a couple yeses from retail spaces, but

33:56

it's anywhere from like three to six

33:58

dollars per square feet. and that would

34:00

just kill our margin. So we kind

34:02

of put it on the back burner

34:05

for now, but it's still definitely

34:07

a goal for us in the

34:09

future. So if there are any

34:11

commercial real estate brokers out there

34:13

listening to this and they want

34:15

to help us out find the

34:18

property, I would greatly appreciate it.

34:20

In the Irvine area, yeah, Irvine,

34:22

Tustin, you know, basically Orange

34:24

County. We're currently in Braya

34:26

right now and we rent

34:28

another spot in Irvine. But

34:30

yeah, we're definitely, I'm trying

34:32

to move further south. What

34:34

are the differences between

34:36

a swimmer and a water

34:38

polo plan in terms of

34:41

strength training? So I think

34:43

the contribution of the lower

34:45

body is huge in water

34:48

polo because you're constantly egg-bittering.

34:50

So I actually train. breaststrokers

34:52

and water polo athletes pretty

34:54

similarly in terms of the

34:57

lower body. There are slight

34:59

differences between breast stroke and

35:01

water polo. In water polo

35:03

you have to actually have

35:06

your legs out super wide.

35:08

Your hips abducted super wide

35:10

in order to have a good egg

35:12

eater because your legs have to be

35:15

out here. You can't be in here.

35:17

In breast stroke you want your knees

35:19

close together. ankles out. So in a

35:21

good hip internal rotation, so you don't

35:23

need as much hip abduction in breaststroke.

35:26

So that's one of the main

35:28

differences. The other main difference in

35:30

waterpole is you're throwing with your

35:32

with your dominant arm. So I

35:34

kind of trained, when I was

35:36

coming up as a strength coach,

35:38

I studied a lot of baseball

35:40

strength and conditioning. So that came

35:43

in. handy when I started training

35:45

water pole athletes because I kind

35:47

of understood the mechanics of the

35:49

shoulder, what goes on, you know,

35:51

throwers develop humoral retroversion, which means

35:53

you just develop more external rotation

35:55

in your throwing arm because you're

35:57

constantly whipping your arm back and then throw

36:00

and then you actually develop a little

36:02

bit of internal rotation deficit where you

36:04

don't have as much internal rotation on

36:06

your throwing arm. So just things like

36:09

that I picked up from studying baseball,

36:11

physical preparation that I add to water

36:13

polo. But besides that, really there's not

36:15

a whole lot of difference between swimming

36:18

and water polo. The main thing that

36:20

we try to do with all of

36:22

our athletes is just make them a

36:25

better athlete first, which in turn. increases

36:27

the probability that they will improve in

36:29

their sport. Like I can't, I think

36:31

it's kind of a hoax when strength

36:34

coaches like, I can guarantee you a

36:36

best time, you know, like we can't

36:38

guarantee that all we do is like

36:40

we just improve the probability that you'll

36:43

go a best time. I can't, I

36:45

can't guarantee you will go a best

36:47

time, you know. Yeah. I mean, yeah,

36:50

there's a physical and then there's the

36:52

mental aspect of it too, you know.

36:54

I can't guarantee that you're going to

36:56

go a best time and I'm going

36:59

to spend more time with you in

37:01

the water than you're certainly going to

37:03

spend with them and I still can't

37:06

guarantee that because you see multiple people

37:08

who are great in practice and then

37:10

they get to meet day and they

37:12

get all up inside their head and

37:15

everything just falls apart. So there's a

37:17

whole another level to it that you

37:19

can't control either. Are you in the

37:22

camp of strength trainers who believe in

37:24

specific movements outside of the pool that

37:26

are going to mimic movements in the

37:28

pool or are you on the opposite

37:31

side of that? I don't like to

37:33

be in camps. I kind of like

37:35

to be in the middle. So I

37:37

think I think there are specific situations

37:40

in where, you know, quote unquote, sports

37:42

specific movements, movements that visually replicate the

37:44

sport. can be useful. There are a

37:47

couple principles to follow though. I think

37:49

number one, first and foremost, when you

37:51

visually replicate the sport, you have to

37:53

make sure you're mimicking the angles of

37:56

pull. So the whatever movement you're mimicking,

37:58

like it has to to be in

38:00

the same line of pull. Because sometimes,

38:03

you know, I see people posting like,

38:05

they're holding like a five pound plate

38:07

and then they're like mimicking the butterfly

38:09

stroke. But gravity acts down and you're

38:12

having your arm go this way. In

38:14

the water, you're trying to pull water

38:16

back. So the line of pull is

38:19

not the same. The other thing is

38:21

as strength coaches, one of our primary

38:23

job is to reduce the risk of

38:25

injury. And we talk about overuse injury

38:28

all the time. If you're trying to

38:30

visually replicate the sport outside of water,

38:32

then we're only making that overuse injury

38:34

worse. So I actually try to do

38:37

a lot of the opposite movement. For

38:39

example, swimming is an internal rotation sport

38:41

where propulsion comes from internally rotating the

38:44

humorous. And so when we train on

38:46

land, I try to do a lot

38:48

of external rotation, which is the opposite

38:50

movement, because we don't get to train.

38:53

external rotation too much in the water.

38:55

And you actually see like kids who

38:57

who have been swimming all their life,

39:00

they'll be missing extra rotations. So earlier

39:02

we're talking about baseball players that have

39:04

extreme external rotation in their throwing arms.

39:06

So they'll have like 140 degrees of

39:09

extra rotation. Kids who have been swimming

39:11

all their life like. I've seen like

39:13

90 to 100 degrees of extra rotation

39:16

and I think that can be an

39:18

issue especially in terms of mobility like

39:20

trying to get into a streamlined position

39:22

which is shoulder flexion and you're missing

39:25

humor external rotation it's good it's a

39:27

little bit harder to get in good

39:29

positions if you're missing that that range.

39:31

Okay interesting yeah there's so much that

39:34

goes into it so much detail and

39:36

that's why I love working with specialists

39:38

like you who understands it. Look, I've

39:41

been doing strength and conditioning, let's just

39:43

say strength for years and years. Did

39:45

it myself? Did it at all? And

39:47

had some of the best strength coaches.

39:50

Understand it, but I don't know it

39:52

like you and I love to put

39:54

my trust in people who really study

39:57

it and understand it and get it.

39:59

and just a good at it too,

40:01

frankly. And you're one of those guys

40:03

that I completely trust. So I prefer

40:06

to work with a specialist. So I

40:08

don't like running my own dryland program.

40:10

I keep it very, very basic in

40:13

terms of just like I'll have a

40:15

pull-up Byron or Sarah. Let's do 10

40:17

pull-ups, you know, type thing just for

40:19

general strength. So that's how I am.

40:22

But in terms of. Some of the

40:24

top swarming exercises that you know that

40:26

you feel like are just staples like

40:28

what what are the couple that you

40:31

really love? Probably chin-ups pull-ups. Yeah, any

40:33

kind of vertical pulling vertical pulling which

40:35

is you know bringing the arm from

40:38

a extended position overhead to the midline

40:40

that'd be categorized or defined as vertical

40:42

pulling. Is there a particular technique with

40:44

a with a pull-up that like when

40:47

you're talking technique what are you looking

40:49

for with a pull-up? What are you

40:51

looking for with a pull-up? So

40:54

we test pull-ups, but we train

40:56

chin-ups. And so chin-ups are basically

40:58

where you're at. So pull-up, your

41:00

hand is pronated this way, and

41:02

then chin-ups, your hand is supernated

41:05

this way. And the reason we

41:07

train, I like to train chin-ups

41:09

is because the lats are an

41:11

internal rotator, so meaning the lats

41:13

help you do this. bring your

41:15

arm this way. And so to

41:17

maximally stretch the lat you want

41:19

to externally rotate your hand. And

41:21

also when you externally rotate your

41:24

hand overhead, you clear a little

41:26

bit of subochromial space. So like

41:28

when you're internally rotated overhead, you

41:30

actually close your subochromial space and

41:32

that's where you get into impingement

41:34

issues and stuff. So I like

41:36

to externally rotate. One, to make

41:38

it less swimming specific. Two, to

41:40

open up the subochromial space a

41:42

little bit more. And then three,

41:45

to maximally stretch the lap. In

41:47

terms of technique, one of the

41:49

important things is trying to maximally

41:51

engage the lat. A lot of

41:53

people when they do it... I

41:55

don't know if you can see,

41:57

but they'll come up and then

41:59

they'll do this where their where

42:01

their scapula goes into anterior till

42:04

and they're just cranking on the

42:06

bicep and the biceps tendin a

42:08

bunch and that you start loading

42:10

the bicep a little bit more

42:12

not not the back as much

42:14

so when we do we try

42:16

to kind of coach it where

42:18

we're opening up the chest a

42:20

little bit more when they come

42:23

to the top so that we're

42:25

really hitting their lats. It's a

42:27

little bit hard to coach it,

42:29

but once you get it down,

42:31

you know, you can really, you

42:33

can feel the difference when you

42:35

do it where you're engaging a

42:37

lot and you're not. Yeah, I

42:39

love that exercise. What's another one?

42:42

I would say, so I love

42:44

all kinds of upper body vertical

42:46

pulling, horizontal pulling, but vertical pulling,

42:48

generally speaking, there's a little bit

42:50

higher risk for injury. and then

42:52

there's because of the overhead position,

42:54

and it takes a little bit

42:56

longer to recover from than horizontal

42:58

pulling variations. And so in terms

43:00

of volume, I try to program

43:03

a little bit more horizontal pulling

43:05

variations than vertical pulling, just because

43:07

I want the athletes to be

43:09

one like when they go to

43:11

practice, when they go to practice,

43:13

when they go see you. I

43:15

don't, I, you know, I don't,

43:17

I can't have them so sore

43:19

in their upper body that they

43:22

can't swim the workout because the

43:24

most important thing is that they're

43:26

able to swim the workout. So

43:28

it's not that we don't do

43:30

vertical pulling variations. I just use

43:32

it carefully. and I try to

43:34

use more horizontal pulling variation. So

43:36

another variation would be all kinds

43:38

of horizontal pulling variations. I love

43:41

a TRX inverted row, whether with

43:43

a what bent knee or feet

43:45

elevated. I love that variation. I

43:47

love seal rows. So seal rows

43:49

are where you lay flat on

43:51

a bench with your chest on

43:53

the bench and you're facing down

43:55

and then you pick up a

43:57

basically a barbell off the floor.

44:00

I know Manadou, he's posted a

44:02

bunch about that, that movement. I

44:05

love that movement because you can

44:07

make it where you completely remove

44:09

the eccentric phase, meaning you can

44:11

pull it, which is the concentric

44:13

phase, which is the up phase,

44:15

and then you can just drop the

44:18

weight on the way down. And

44:20

in terms of exercise selection, the

44:22

eccentric phase is more damaging

44:24

than the concentric phase. the

44:27

eccentric phase basically the down phase

44:29

of any exercise the lengthening of muscle

44:31

actually makes you more sore and damages

44:33

the muscle greater than the concentric phase

44:36

so it's just the tool in the

44:38

toolbox but you know the seal row

44:40

you can get a high stimulus

44:43

from pulling up heavy weight

44:45

concentrically without all the damage.

44:47

Obviously there's a time and

44:49

place for eccentric training like I like

44:52

to do it in August when

44:54

kids finish up their championship meets and

44:56

we have, you know, they're kind of

44:58

in the off season. I'll throw in

45:00

a bunch of eccentric training there, but

45:02

like right now in November, we got,

45:04

you know, we got Kevin Perry coming

45:07

up next, or this week, and then

45:09

we got our championship meets in December.

45:11

So I kind of try to stay

45:13

away from the eccentric heavy stuff, but

45:15

yeah, it's just a tool in the

45:17

toolbox where you can figure out, you

45:19

can basically change up your exercise selection

45:21

based on what you need. Yeah, I

45:23

will say in regards to that though,

45:26

I do love the fact that you

45:28

can drop that way. What I don't

45:30

love is like they're doing a tune-up

45:32

or a pull-up, let's say, and they'll

45:34

drop their body and just yank their

45:37

shoulders. I don't like them dropping anything.

45:39

So like, even sometimes I'll get them

45:41

to do like a banded pull-through, you

45:43

know, like those banded pulls, and they'll

45:46

let go. of the of the top

45:48

end of it I'll pull pull through

45:50

really well and then I'll let go

45:52

and I'll just see their shoulders like

45:55

just pull out a socket I'm like

45:57

no don't yeah there's no control there

45:59

yeah Yeah, I try to be careful,

46:01

especially with the kids when they're doing

46:04

pull-ups. If they can't control it, I'll

46:06

try to give them another variation, you

46:08

know. Yeah, control is important. Remember, what

46:11

about leg strengthening? Because that's biggest muscle

46:13

group in our body. So what's the

46:15

best forms of leg strengthening? So I

46:18

train my breaststrokers different from butterfly backstroke

46:20

and freestilers. I should also preface by

46:22

saying... It depends on how old you

46:25

are, so like, this is kind of

46:27

a interesting topic. So I don't love

46:29

squatting my butterfly backstroke and freestyleers because

46:32

one, there's something called, you know, stimulus

46:34

to fatigue ratio. I think the stimulus

46:36

to fatigue ratio, once you reach a

46:39

certain level of strength, that doesn't make

46:41

the back squat worth. the juice is

46:43

not worth the squeeze, in my opinion.

46:46

Because when you're flutter kicking, your knees

46:48

don't bend to 90 degrees, unless you're

46:50

doing breaststroke. That's why I say I

46:53

train my breaststroke is a little bit

46:55

differently. Your knees are pretty much straight

46:57

like this when you're flutter kicking. And

47:00

so, yes, we'll train lower body, especially

47:02

if you're like, you know, you're 14

47:04

and you can't even squat your body

47:07

weight then the juice is probably worth

47:09

the squeeze but I'm not sure when

47:11

it is but there's probably a certain

47:14

point where squatting as to grass you

47:16

know once you're 18 or 19 or

47:18

whatever and you swim freestyle I don't

47:21

think the juice is worth the squeeze

47:23

there so like myself personally I don't

47:25

really squat too much I do a

47:28

lot of deadlifts because the knee angle

47:30

is a little bit different but I

47:32

don't love squatting that much because it

47:35

is it is a very fatiguing movement

47:37

in terms of the central nervous system.

47:39

And I do. I think there's some

47:42

benefit there in terms of increasing your

47:44

vertical jump and stuff, but there are

47:46

other methods that I think you can

47:49

use to do that without fatiguing the

47:51

system. So for those athletes, I actually

47:53

really love training the hip flexors. So

47:56

that's still a lower body and it's

47:58

kind of the core too. Training the

48:00

hip flexors where the knees are fully

48:03

extended. So I'll sit variations on parallates

48:05

or yesterday I posted a stability single

48:07

leg body saw. That's where you're in

48:10

a plank position, where your feet are

48:12

on a stability ball, one of those

48:14

big yoga balls. You know, you just

48:17

put one leg on the ball and

48:19

then you rock back and forth on

48:21

it with one leg on the ball

48:24

kind of like this if the ball

48:26

is here, you just kind of go

48:28

like that. And it's a core exercise,

48:31

but it's also a huge quad and

48:33

hip flexor stimulus. And that, I guess

48:35

you could say a sport specific because

48:38

you're visually replicating the sport, but you're

48:40

doing it in a safe manner where

48:42

you're not loading the joints in an

48:45

awkward position. Yeah. Man, we could go

48:47

on for hours in terms of different

48:49

exercises and things like that, but I

48:52

love the way you think about it.

48:54

And is there something that you're looking

48:56

at that you feel like is different

48:59

than what people were doing 10 years

49:01

ago? And like, where is the, where

49:03

is strength and conditioning headed for swimming

49:06

right now? Because it seems like there's

49:08

more and more. either clubs embracing it

49:10

or certainly kids embracing it at a

49:13

younger age. So like where do you

49:15

think it's going over the next 10

49:17

years for swimming? I think it's going

49:20

to a place where it's going to

49:22

be way more hyper specialized and hyper

49:24

individualized. I think where it used to

49:27

be is we used to use it

49:29

as a mental strength building tool. But

49:31

I think we're starting to learn that

49:34

that's not the most effective thing for

49:36

building fast. all we're doing is causing

49:38

fatigue and damage and injuries. We did

49:41

a lot of that in college and

49:43

we were swimming crazy slow. Herbie Bame,

49:45

who's the head coach at Arizona State

49:48

right now, we were teammates my freshman

49:50

year and we were swimming, you know,

49:52

like 50 point at dual meets and

49:55

we're like, what the heck is going

49:57

on? But we were doing some crazy

49:59

dry land in the sake of, you

50:02

know, building mental toughness. And I think

50:04

if anything, it ruined our mental toughness

50:06

because we're swimming so slow. But yeah,

50:09

in terms of where the industry is

50:11

going, I think we're going to start

50:13

seeing a little bit more hyper individualization

50:16

for I hope for each athlete. So

50:18

I don't like to think of it

50:20

as like sports specific training. I like

50:23

to think of it as athlete specific

50:25

training because I think that's where you

50:27

get the highest ROI in terms of

50:30

your training effort and time. Yeah, I

50:32

agree with that completely. And when I

50:34

became more specialized, I got faster, I

50:37

got faster, you know, you know, and

50:39

So it just makes a lot of

50:41

sense that why would why would you

50:44

wait to a point where you're almost

50:46

at retirement to figure out specializing, you

50:48

know, like figure it out early. The

50:51

only hard part from a logistical standpoint

50:53

is how do you do that in

50:55

a club setting with when you got

50:58

50 athletes? Like I totally understand that

51:00

part. That's why I think you might

51:02

need different business models that allow you

51:05

to do, you know, allow you to

51:07

be individualized. And that's kind of where

51:09

our business model. came into play was

51:12

like there was no one doing you

51:14

know hyper individualized training and so that's

51:16

where we came in to try to

51:19

provide value to the aquatic world. Yeah

51:21

good stuff man well I appreciate your

51:23

time today I know you're busy you

51:26

gotta get on but people listen Sean's

51:28

doing awesome work aquatic sports performance a

51:30

lot of really good information coming out

51:33

that you guys post so I love

51:35

it so definitely give him a follow

51:37

and then yeah if there's anyone that

51:40

wants to invest in helping him set

51:42

up a permanent structure. definitely reach out

51:44

but We're going to we're

51:47

going to you at the pool

51:49

If you want

51:51

to get 19, let's

51:54

get at the

51:56

pool 19, all right?

51:58

Come over more at the

52:01

pool more. All right, come if

52:03

there are any

52:05

pros or if out

52:08

there serious about or post

52:10

grads definitely check out

52:12

Brett about swimming in LA 2028,

52:15

School in check out Brett in El doing good

52:17

stuff. School in Lake it's been a

52:19

lot of fun growing it, so good

52:22

better. And yeah, I appreciate your time,

52:24

a man. All right. Take care. growing

52:26

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52:28

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