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Music.

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Welcome to Insights at Work. In this month's edition of the podcast,

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we sit down with Terry Boddison from Hub International.

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We dive into a new report released by Hub International that talks about benefits,

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productivity, and how employers can better shape programs for their employees.

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Terry, welcome to Insights at Work. It's a pleasure to have you.

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Thanks so much. Thanks for inviting me. We're going to dive right into the topic area at hand.

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We're going to have a great discussion and hopefully get some really amazing

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insights for the audience. But before we start, I just wanted to kind of ask a little bit about you.

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What is your role and your background? Absolutely.

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So I have responsibility for our Canadian employee benefits,

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group retirement and life insurance divisions. I have been with Hub for over 24 years now.

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The team reports to me and, you know, we're trying to build ways that we can

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be better consultants or advisors for those clients.

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Wonderful. And I know that Hub International has recently released a report,

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the North America Outlook, essentially, looking at all sorts of different findings

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when it comes to workers and productivity and all those great things.

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Would you mind giving us a bit of a high level overview around what the report

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took a look at? You know, we think that we're uniquely positioned as the fifth

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largest insurance broker in the world.

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Our goal is to be everywhere that risk exists.

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So we really get to see what's concerning our clients, like where do they feel optimistic?

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What's challenging for them? You know, what are the things that they think are

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going to help their growth, are going to hinder their growth?

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You know, we survey them once a year and bring all of those insights together

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into a fairly short and consumable report that just highlights,

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you know, the things that the business,

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our customers or our prospective customers should be thinking about and point

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them in the right direction for what's happening in the economy in the world.

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I know recently at ADP, we actually hosted an event for our accountant community.

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And part of that event included an economist from RBC who joined us.

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And we got some really great insights around what the outlook for 2025 is.

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And one of the things that they really noted was tied to Canada and productivity

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and how we seem to be struggling a little bit with productivity.

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Absolutely. I know the report that you published does actually look at that

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a little bit and dives into how employers are feeling about it.

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And in fact, I think it was 75%, I believe,

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of employers were saying that productivity was a priority for them.

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So how do you think that ties into Canada specifically in terms of overall the

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market is really feeling the crunch on trying to be more productive and clearly

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employers are feeling that as well. Are there any insights that we can take from the report to help?

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I think that, as you said, 75% of employers are trying to figure out how to

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improve or impact, even just impact productivity.

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And you look at its unprecedented times with the economy, the world we're living

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in, and certainly the impacts of the pandemic and remote work and typically...

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Managers and leaders maybe were fabulous in-person leaders, but are struggling

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to figure out how they lead in a remote environment or a hybrid environment.

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And we also have a time where there's five generations in the work.

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The report also dives into how employers may attack this, if you will.

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I think there was a few notes around tying compensation metrics to productivity,

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which obviously seems like a good starting point to make sure that it is a priority

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for the C-suite and leadership of organizations.

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But I'm wondering, do you think that that goes far enough?

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Do you think that actually can affect change in terms of productivity?

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Or is there something more grassroots at the employer-employee relationship

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level that needs to happen? Certainly, compensation is a big factor and something that is important to all

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employees, but that also includes employee benefits and financial wellness.

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And it's just a much bigger picture, I think, overall now that all has to be

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tied together in a total reward structure to make sure that you are able to

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attract and retain the best talent. And I think it's really important that employers are using data-driven analytics

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to understand what's important to their workforce. Definitely.

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And speaking of wellness...

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Did the report dive into anything specific around how employers are treating it?

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I know over the last several years, particularly coming out of the pandemic,

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there really seems to be a focus for many employers on wellness.

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Some, you know, focused more in on the holistic version of it,

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some mental health, some other opportunities. But I'm wondering,

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has this continued? Has this trend continued?

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Is it still a focus for employers or are we seeing a shift there?

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We're hearing that 42% of Canadian employees are looking for new jobs in the first half of 2024.

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And that includes, interestingly, 72% of HR employees.

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So, you know, it really, I think that's really a statement.

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And improving benefits programs, really with a specific focus on wellness,

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and I'm going to say, I'm going to drill down even further and say an emphasis

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on mental health offerings is so incredibly important.

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72% of the Canadian companies that we surveyed here, pardon me,

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Canadians, 72% of Canadians said to us that taking care of their mental health was important.

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And I think we've really seen that evolve over the years and probably has a

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different level of importance with different generations in the workforce.

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So again, there's not one size fits all in terms of what it means to take care

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of your mental health. For some,

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it might be programs that the employer is offering to help with that.

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Some might be actual financial benefits to pay for those mental health resources.

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In fact, that's probably... The number one reason why people don't seek counseling or therapy is because

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of the financial cost barriers to that.

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So Canadians are looking to their employers to solve those problems for them

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or to at least assist with the solution of those problems.

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And then financial well-being is a completely different topic that is also so important.

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And I know recently I attended an event with a number of HR leaders and the

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discussion was very interesting to listen to the talk around wellness and mental

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health and also seeing how some organizations, there was one in particular,

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had opted to shift their entire wellness program and benefit program away from,

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you know, having access to online counseling and things of that nature.

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And they opted to structure their program.

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So it was very much focused on some

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of the stuff that's a little bit more weighty and severe in terms of mental

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health to really fund it to make sure that people who were experiencing that

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had access to a full suite of benefits instead of trying to separate across

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the board and have diluted benefits, but broader base.

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So they really focused in on one particular area.

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Have you seen, given the industry, have you seen any trends in that way in terms

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of people kind of shifting what those programs look like?

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Absolutely. I would say that, you know, we're seeing a lot more attention on

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this and a lot more questions about how they should be structuring their plan

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to really meet the most important needs.

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You know, I think that we understand that there's rising costs.

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And it's especially in drug coverage.

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And so you've got to weigh all of the costs and all of the benefits and use,

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again, as I said, use that data to make sure that you're choosing drugs.

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Choosing the right way to serve your employee base, depending on what they're looking for.

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And I would say we're seeing a shift in the limits offered in specifically with

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mental health solutions or mental health counseling.

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And it's shifting, but maybe not quite enough to meet all the needs.

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It's still 37% of people are saying the most common reason that they don't seek

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that help is affordable.

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I do believe that if your employee base is well, they're clearly going to be

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more productive in my eyes. Again, no data there from my standpoint, but something that I strongly believe in.

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And I know that the survey also mentioned financial wellness,

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because as you alluded to, it's not just about physical, mental wellness.

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Financial wellness can be very impactful. We know as an organization who obviously

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is very attuned to folks' finances, given our background in payroll and connections

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to organizations like the National Payroll Institute.

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And we know that most Canadians are still really living paycheck to paycheck

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and we have lots of inflation happening. We have a struggle with housing. how can employers look to that type of area

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to help improve productivity wellness in that area?

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I know the survey explored financial wellness and gave some insights around that.

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A lot of the Canadian workforce are telling us that they're unprepared for retirement.

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I mean, it's just rising cost of living. They're putting off savings.

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They think they know the number that they need to retire, but they can't quite get there.

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And they are definitely looking to their employer for help and for guidance

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and focusing on their long-term needs and their ability to retire.

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And we think that, you know, to improve a retirement plan or really even in

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some cases, just to improve the participation in that plan,

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plan sponsors have to think about the design, and have to think about the education

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that they're providing to their employees in the workplace,

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but perhaps even outside of the workplace. Is there a component of individual planning that they can offer?

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Can they do something about training?

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And so many of the companies that we sponsor are aware that there's a gap there

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and that Canadians don't really have a solid understanding of how to plan for

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their future, or how to be prepared for retirement.

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So, you know, we think that it's not just our responsibility to help employers grow.

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Meet the capital accumulation guidelines or to help them with the plan design.

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We think it's also, you know, a really big part of our responsibility to help

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them with that education for their employees. How can we deliver that in an impactful way?

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How can we speak to them about the things that are on their minds?

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How can we be there at the right time? And, you know, I think it's more than just putting a retirement plan in place,

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asking your payroll provider to do the deductions and set it,

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forget it. That time has passed. I think that's a great point.

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I think there's definitely an opportunity for employers.

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And I think, as you mentioned, with the five generations in the workplace,

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there's also a younger generation who has very different expectations than perhaps

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those of older generations still in the workforce.

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When it comes to financial wellness, I thought it was really interesting that

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there was a note in the report around things like supplementing insurance that

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may normally be something that someone takes on personally, like automobile insurance.

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I noted there was a little section around how some employers are starting to

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offer plans of that nature for their employee base. Is that something that's

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been around for a while or is that something new that's kind of trending upward?

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Yeah, I'd say that's something that's new that's trending upward and very,

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very new. And it's not just supplementing auto insurance.

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Again, it goes back to that using a data-driven approach to really understand

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what's important to your workforce. And, you know, we've got so many client examples of times where,

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you know, the people in the boardroom designing the plan were thinking that.

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Oh, we'll increase the match in our normal product that everybody puts their

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money into, and that's going to make everybody happy when, you know,

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their workforce was younger. Was living paycheck to paycheck and saying to them,

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okay, we're going to take an extra 1% off your pay and match that was not something

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that was going to make them happy, but subsidizing their auto insurance or

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giving them the ability to maybe invest in a different vehicle as as opposed

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to the regular investments that go into a retirement plan or subsidize something

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else for them that was really causing financial stress in their lives today.

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Again, goes back to that ability to,

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for your employees to be holistically well and more present at work. Absolutely.

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And I think something that resonates a little bit when we look back to the last

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five years or so, there's been a lot of talk around wellness,

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but there's also been a lot of talk around building resiliency.

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And there has been a bit of a trend upwards in terms of folks taking that on

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from an employer standpoint and really making sure that they have these emergency plans in place.

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I know in my previous life, I was in the technology industry from a data center

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and networks perspective, where emergency resiliency planning is very top of

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mind because networks need to stay running.

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But I know in some other industries, it perhaps isn't as much of a priority.

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And I believe the report said that that's starting to shift a little bit.

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But there's more and more focus being placed on preparing for the future,

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if you will, even if you don't know what the future is. Yeah, and I think that that speaks to the desire for a lot of employers to have

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a bit of a flexible benefit plan.

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You know, there are so many things that you could include into a benefits plan.

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I mean, we have obviously the normal health and dental and the things that people

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come to expect from their employer in terms of the benefits plan.

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But we have clients that include pet insurance.

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We have clients that include surrogacy coverage or a paid sabbatical.

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Like there's a lot of different things that are making up benefits in the minds of the employee.

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So, you know, when you think about what's going to be important,

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well, if I'm a 62-year-old male, is surrogacy coverage something important in my benefits plan?

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So it's really, you know, HR teams are really looking at things differently

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and they recognize the importance of the flexibility and benefits.

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And, you know, I think it's probably pretty important at this point to point

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out that this isn't just a big company thing. Like it doesn't have to be.

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You don't have to have flexibility in your benefits plan if you're a thousand,

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you know, if you have a thousand employees or two thousand employees.

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We're really finding that smaller employees can offer personalization of benefits, too.

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And, you know, it takes a more pointed approach. It takes some back to data

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analytics to really figure out what the best combination of benefits are.

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But this is something that's available to every size of employer.

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That's a really great point. Often we even see at ADP that things sometimes

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feel like they're centered around large organizations.

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But the reality is we also know from our small business clients that they need

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to differentiate themselves in the market, too, because they're competing for

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that same talent that a large organization is.

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So that's a great point to bring forward.

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So you mentioned that flexibility and creativity almost with some of these benefit

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programs is something that you see.

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Putting you on the spot a little bit, but is there anything that you can think

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of that was really unique from one of the partners perhaps that you worked with

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that you hadn't seen before in terms of what they included inside of their benefit plan?

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There's one example that, you know, internally we've used a couple of times

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to really highlight the benefits of flexibility and how that resonates with

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the employees inside a company. So it was a retirement plan meeting that we were having, and it was with an

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oil company in Northern Alberta,

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and the executives in that company had a group of employees that were,

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they had turnover much higher than in their other groups, and they wanted to

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increase the company match. I mean, exactly the example that I used earlier, and we went in and really talked

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to them about, well, what problem are you trying to solve?

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What's the demographic of the group that you're trying to solve this problem

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for? Like, what are we trying to get at?

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And again, it went back to this group of employees that was working and living paycheck to paycheck,

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didn't want more in their retirement plan, didn't want the extra one or two

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or three percent coming out of their paycheck every week or two weeks.

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And we worked through a plan for them to subsidize workbooks.

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They wanted something that was going to impact their pocketbook immediately,

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not something that was a longer term. And it had a big impact on the turnover in that group.

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So that's something that is really outside of the box thinking,

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in my opinion, and worked well for that employer. That's super interesting and

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really gives a nod to knowing your audience when you're trying to formulate some of these plans.

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And perhaps what may work around the boardroom table might not work in the oil

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field and may not resonate as well with those employees.

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So I think that's really interesting and something that makes a ton of sense

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to try and look at the individual needs of the employees when formulating these types of plans.

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Now, we've talked a lot about productivity and wellness and how perhaps employers

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can improve those things inside the organization.

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I know analytics are a large part of what we do at ADP Canada.

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I'm sure what you do at Hub International as well and understanding the needs

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of different employers and employees.

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Is there any, can technology help us with this?

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How can we understand perhaps some of those nuances? Is there a space for technology

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to help guide some of these discussions?

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I think that this is probably the biggest advancement.

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You know, I don't think 10 years ago we would have been talking about personalization

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of employee benefits because it just felt like it was, in this instance,

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I would say for larger employers, it probably felt like a big mat to crack.

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Because, well, how am I going to get to know what's important to everybody?

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How am I going to understand what the demographics of my workforce is at any given time?

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And, you know, we have something that we call persona analysis that we utilize

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with all different sizes of clients. And it really helps them understand the

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different demographics of people in their employee population.

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How long have they been with the company? How old are they?

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Male, female, married, like just things like that.

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And we can even overlay some postal code information to help understand whether

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the employees are financially fragile, and then look at the benefits plan they

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have in place, and really just quite simply using technology,

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show them where there may be gaps or where there may be parts of their plan

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that aren't hitting the mark or parts of their plan that are incredibly important

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to maintain, because those are the things that are most important to their employees. So.

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I was really interested to see in the report that, particularly since we've

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heard a lot about AI over the last 18 to 24 months, it's been very much top

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of mind. Everyone wants to talk about it. I did think it was really interesting that while it was included as a priority

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for organizations and firms, it wasn't at the top of the list.

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So I thought that was that was really interesting to see that,

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you know, productivity, benefits, cost of prescriptions, those types of things

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were more at the top of the list than looking to developing that that AI functionality.

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So I thought that was interesting. It's almost like we saw the initial amazing interest.

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We figured out a little bit, OK, this is what we can do. And now let's get back

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to reality, maybe, and figure out what we need to do overall and not get distracted

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by the shiny thing, I guess, is maybe the way to look at it.

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I think that's an excellent way to describe it.

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You know, I think that we're all learning. In terms of the overall key findings,

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I know that the report stretched North American wide.

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I know you are more focused on the Canadian market, but were there any key differences

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between Canada and the U.S.

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That jumped out at you or that you think are worth kind of sharing with the audience too?

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I know we often like to compare ourselves to the U.S.

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Was there anything there that jumped out? So, you know, I mean,

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specifically with employee benefits, there's obviously a big difference in the marketplace.

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And, you know, there would be some nuance in some of the statistics or some

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of the things that were important. But, you know, I think overall, we're looking at people and employers across

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North America are having are challenged in.

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Attracting employees, retaining employees, and how to really help those employees

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have more meaningful experiences at work, support them in their well-being.

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And as a general overall theme, those things are true both sides of the board.

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A number of research reports that ADP or the ADP Research Institute looks at

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often echo that same sentiment where there are similar sentiments for sure.

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In some areas, a little bit different, but for the most part,

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very similar responses and areas of focus.

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Is there anything else that you would say that as perhaps shifting to an HR leader specifically,

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maybe that they can do to kind of bring some of these points forward to their

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senior team to help sell,

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if you will, the overall concept of building perhaps productivity through wellness

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or benefits programs versus the traditional metrics that we may look at from

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a productivity standpoint. I think that sometimes this is where the battle is, right?

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Between the benefit of the benefits and the cost of the benefits and really

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structuring your plan to make sure you're reaching your workforce,

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you are meeting their needs through that personalization and that flexibility of benefits,

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but also have a focus on the cost of the plan and know that you are spending

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your dollars in the best way possible.

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I sound a bit like a broken record, but using the data of your employee population

24:40

to understand how you can really get the biggest impact for a reasonable cost. And I.

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Believe that the younger generation, this is just my opinion,

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really, but I believe that the younger generation is more open,

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I think, in sharing some of those unique needs that they may have in terms of

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what a benefit program could look like. I personally have some folks on my team who are not of the same generation as

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me. We'll leave it at that. And they're definitely a lot more open in terms of communicating even with each

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other when it comes to things like salary.

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And I think this would be beneficial. There's a certain level of confidence

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there that I don't think we always give them credit for.

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They're a bit more attuned to openly communicating perhaps their feelings and

25:37

what they're looking for from an employer. Have you noticed with any organizations who worker or their workforce skews

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to a younger generation or if there's an industry perhaps that does,

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if there's a difference in the types of plans that they offer to their employees?

25:57

Or is that something that's a little bit too nuanced? No, you know,

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I think that that's a fair and valid statement that, you know,

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in the industries or in the businesses where we see a younger demographic,

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I think that they probably look at their benefits program completely differently.

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And, you know, I want to just make one other comment based on the younger generation's

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willingness to speak up. You know, I think when we were just designing benefits plans in a traditional manner.

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You sometimes were getting a plan that was designed for the loudest voice,

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not necessarily the strongest voice or the most important, you know,

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the most important thing. So a benefit strategy that really focuses on...

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All of your employees and their well-being and asking and, you know,

26:48

being really proactive in asking the questions and understanding what's important

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to all of them, not just the youngest ones or the loudest ones or the ones willing to share,

26:58

like seeking those opinions and looking at employee well-being holistically.

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I think you've got the ability to really energize your workforce,

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not just simply offer a benefits plan that ticks a box. You know,

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it really does have the ability to be a very positive influence in your organization.

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And I think that it can impact culture and it can really strengthen what the

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company believes in and really make a statement about that.

27:33

And probably the only thing that we haven't talked about that I think is really

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important is how you communicate that benefits plan.

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So it's not just necessarily send out the booklet.

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I mean, this is my livelihood and I haven't read the booklet for our own benefits plan.

27:50

I don't think people generally grab that and go through it until they have a

27:54

need for one of the benefits. But there's a lot of ways you can communicate now and make it easily understandable.

28:00

Make sure that the right message is getting to the right group of people and

28:03

make sure that people are aware of what's available to them and how that can

28:07

help. That's a great point. I personally, when you're looking through benefits, they can be a little bit complex, right?

28:14

You're trying to figure out, oh, do I have this? Do I not have this? What does this mean?

28:20

I know we're speaking in the Canadian context today, but in the US,

28:23

that becomes even more complex with the health plans and things that are included into that mix.

28:29

So that's a great point. And as a marketing person, I like to hear that we want

28:33

to communicate things well. So that's super helpful.

28:37

So in terms of the report, I know there were a bunch of key takeaways.

28:40

I think we've covered most of them in terms of how employers can take a bit

28:45

of a different look at their programs. The focus areas for many workplaces moving forward.

28:52

But is there anything else, Terry, that you think would be a benefit for the

28:59

audience to take away from today's discussion?

29:02

I just think that you're going to see this elevate increasingly over time.

29:07

You know, we're seeing that in our Outlook reports, all of these things that

29:11

we've talked about that we're saying are important to employers and,

29:14

you know, the personalization, the communication, the use of data,

29:18

it's going to be a benefit. getting more and more important every year.

29:21

So they're really seeing that in job offers they're making and employees asking

29:28

more questions about the benefits that are included or how that works.

29:32

And so I think that really just a general elevation of the benefits discussion

29:37

is going to continue to trend.

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And, you know, the outcome being that it can have an impact on your organization

29:46

in so many different ways. That's a great point to end on, I think, and let folks know that really the

29:53

world is their oyster, as they say,

29:55

in terms of creating a plan that's going to resonate with their particular employee

30:00

base and hopefully help them to boost some of these metrics that they want to

30:05

over the coming year, like productivity. So Terry, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate you taking the time.

30:12

And for anyone who wants to take a deeper dive into the report.

30:15

I am certain that it is available. And it's the 2025 North American Outlook report from Hub International.

30:22

So check that out if you want to take a deeper dive into the data we talked about today.

30:27

Thank you, Terri. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Shauna. I appreciate being invited.

30:31

Music.