0:00

Expressive individualism is a term

0:02

used today to describe the

0:04

intuitive way that we think

0:06

about ourselves as human beings.

0:08

Dr. Carl Truman, talking about his

0:10

presentation at the 2025 Issues, etc.,

0:13

making the case conference. We

0:15

think about ourselves as free, autonomous,

0:17

self -determining, and

0:19

we place a great emphasis upon our

0:21

feelings as being decisive for who we

0:23

are. Now, from a

0:25

Christian perspective, feelings are part of what

0:28

it is to be human. But

0:30

also we understand as Christians that made

0:32

in the image of God we

0:34

are dependent creatures. We're obliged creatures. We

0:36

don't self -invent or self

0:38

-create ourselves. And what I

0:41

want to do in this talk is analyze

0:43

the problem and then suggest ways that

0:45

the church can combat this

0:47

within our congregations. You

0:49

can meet and hear Dr.

0:51

Carl Truman making the case

0:53

against expressive individualism at this

0:55

year's Making the Case Conference,

0:57

July 18th and 19th at

1:00

Concordia University, Chicago. Learn more

1:02

at issuesetc .org. There

1:14

is no doubt that there is

1:16

an educational crisis in the United States,

1:18

especially in our public schools. Our

1:21

test scores simply have been going

1:23

down and down and down for the

1:25

last 30 years. Is that a

1:27

coincidence that it coincides with

1:29

the establishment of the Department

1:31

of Education, U .S. Department

1:33

of Education? Welcome

1:36

back to Issues Etc. Joining us

1:38

to talk about a new report on

1:40

the state of America's public education system,

1:42

Tim Gageline, Vice President, of government and

1:44

external relations that focus on the family

1:46

in Washington, D .C. He formerly served

1:48

as deputy director of the White House

1:50

Office of Public Liaison for President

1:52

George W. Bush, and he's author of

1:55

several books, including Stumbling Toward Utopia, How

1:57

We Can Revive the American Dream, a

2:00

recent column for the Washington

2:02

Times titled America's Educational Freefall

2:04

continues. Tim, welcome back. It's

2:07

great to be with you, Todd. What

2:09

does a recent national assessment of

2:11

educational progress report tell us about

2:13

the state of America's public education

2:15

system? Well, I'll

2:17

tell you the bottom

2:19

line of the most

2:21

important assessment of American

2:23

public education is even

2:25

beyond a three alarm

2:27

fire Todd it is

2:29

deeply concerning you know

2:31

public and government schooling

2:33

has shown a downward

2:35

trend line in math,

2:37

in reading, in civics,

2:40

in basic what you and

2:42

I would call cultural

2:44

literacy for decades now. And

2:47

every report that comes back,

2:49

there seems to be an

2:51

excuse by the teachers' unions and

2:53

by the bloated bureaucracy that

2:55

tends to run government and

2:57

public schooling. And the

2:59

most recent excuses were COVID, that

3:02

that was the reason. But now

3:04

we are far beyond COVID and

3:06

we have the first major assessment

3:08

since. And it is

3:10

really a disaster. And

3:12

in fact, we have all

3:14

kinds of primary and

3:16

secondary schools and education systems

3:19

in our great country

3:21

where the average student is

3:23

not just sort of

3:25

at the average reading or

3:27

average basic math level

3:29

or basic history. but on

3:32

the downward escalator at

3:34

a rapid pace. And

3:36

the most recent empirical

3:38

data confirms this. It is

3:40

very, very alarming. When

3:43

you say that the American

3:45

public education system is broken, what

3:47

do you mean? What

3:50

I mean is that

3:52

the kindergarten through 12th

3:54

grade model, which has

3:56

in fact a wonderful

3:58

history, is beyond shattered.

4:00

We are in a

4:02

brand new era in

4:04

American education. We

4:07

have homeschooling. We

4:09

have non -sectarian schooling.

4:11

We have faith -based schooling. We

4:14

have every kind of possible

4:16

model, and many of those

4:18

models work brilliantly. And

4:21

yet, as we have this

4:23

wonderful conversation today, the

4:25

American people are pouring

4:27

hard -earned tax dollars

4:29

into their public and

4:31

government school systems in

4:33

major urban areas in

4:35

suburbs in excerpts in

4:37

rural america and in

4:39

almost every demographic and

4:41

in almost every part

4:43

of our beloved country

4:45

those numbers are not

4:47

even at basic proficiency

4:49

so i think it

4:51

is time to utterly

4:53

reimagine the idea of

4:55

American education with a

4:57

very heavy emphasis on

4:59

the kind of models

5:01

that are working best. And

5:04

those kind of models that

5:06

are working best are some of

5:08

the ones that really deserve

5:10

far more national attention. Even

5:13

the scores for higher performing students

5:15

have been dropping. What does that

5:17

tell you? Well,

5:19

you know, I'll tell you,

5:21

in looking at the empirical data

5:23

Todd on the most recent

5:25

numbers that we're discussing, the

5:27

thing that was most disheartening,

5:29

even to an inveterate optimist

5:32

like me, is that

5:34

in those parts of

5:36

our country where we have

5:38

traditionally seen much higher

5:40

performing students in math, in

5:42

science, in reading, in

5:45

history and civics, Even

5:47

in those areas, we

5:49

are now in a

5:51

measurable decline. And

5:53

I think that for the first

5:55

time here in Washington where

5:57

I live, even though the answers

5:59

to American education certainly will

6:02

never come from Washington, D .C.,

6:04

at least for the first time,

6:06

we have come to a

6:09

new set of policy agreements

6:11

that the federal government needs

6:13

to step outside of education.

6:15

because clearly, and this is

6:17

the most important thing to

6:20

say, we do not have

6:22

a funding problem. If

6:24

we had a funding problem,

6:26

it would be really hard

6:28

to understand these low and

6:30

declining scores. But what

6:32

we have currently taught

6:34

overwhelmingly in our country

6:37

is school systems that

6:39

receive comparatively by any

6:41

international standard enormous amounts

6:43

of cash And yet,

6:45

despite the money, despite

6:47

the gravy train going

6:49

into government and public

6:51

schools, it's a drip,

6:53

drip, drip of decline. So

6:56

it's not a funding problem.

6:58

It's a culture problem within

7:00

American education. And I might

7:02

say within America more broadly. How

7:05

has the educational focus in

7:07

the classroom shifted away from

7:09

education itself? Well,

7:11

I think that that

7:14

is the most important

7:16

question to ask, and

7:18

I think the answer

7:20

is the following, that

7:22

we have very rapidly

7:24

moved away from power

7:26

to parents, power to

7:28

local school systems, and

7:30

increasingly, that power has

7:32

been definitively, definitively shifted

7:34

to that group of

7:36

people that I call

7:38

the edukrats. These are

7:40

a combination of education

7:43

elites and bureaucrats who

7:45

have enormous access to

7:47

funding. And yet,

7:49

the more that they

7:51

try to employ their

7:53

progressive models and ideas

7:55

for improved education, overwhelmingly

7:58

we see only failure

8:00

and decline. And

8:02

I think we can

8:04

categorically conclude now that

8:06

progressive education elites not

8:08

only have ruined our

8:10

government and public schooling

8:12

systems, but they are

8:14

personally responsible for the

8:16

kind of cultural, civic

8:18

illiteracy that we have

8:20

seen. They are personally

8:22

responsible for the reading,

8:24

math, and science declines.

8:26

And I might say

8:29

it's very important in

8:31

the realm of a

8:33

national conversation that we

8:35

ultimately conclude that progressive

8:37

educats no longer deserve

8:39

to have the primary

8:42

seat at the table

8:44

when it comes to

8:46

discussing what is to

8:48

be done is our

8:50

educational crisis related to

8:52

the disintegration of the

8:54

natural family and if

8:57

so how absolutely and

8:59

overwhelmingly and i think

9:01

frankly that while all

9:03

conversations dialogue and debate

9:05

in education must continue

9:07

i think that any

9:09

dialogue any conversation any

9:12

debate about american primary

9:14

and secondary education that

9:16

does not also take

9:18

into account the decline

9:20

of the natural nuclear

9:22

family and it's direct

9:25

relationship to american education

9:27

Frankly, is not a

9:29

conversation worth having because

9:31

the best predictability of

9:33

student success has little

9:35

to do with the

9:37

funding mechanism within the

9:40

public or government school

9:42

system where that student

9:44

attends. The number

9:46

one predictor of student

9:48

attainment in science, in

9:50

math, in reading, in

9:53

history, in civics, et

9:55

cetera, is the state of

9:57

their family. Does

9:59

this young person come from

10:01

a stable home with a

10:04

married mother and father? And

10:06

I want to go back to empirical data

10:08

for just a moment. Here in

10:10

Washington, we had a very famous

10:12

U .S. Senator who said, Todd,

10:14

that everyone was entitled to

10:16

his own opinion, but not everyone

10:19

was entitled to his own

10:21

facts. And in this debate, it's

10:23

very important that we look

10:25

at the facts and not the

10:27

opinions. And when you wade

10:29

through the opinions and you get to

10:31

the facts, the facts,

10:33

the empirical data show that

10:36

if we want to

10:38

see substantial increases in the

10:40

attainment of our young

10:42

people, the rising generation, in

10:44

basic education, then we

10:47

have to work overtime to

10:49

shore up the natural nuclear

10:51

family in other words when we

10:53

are having a conversation about

10:56

what works in education we have

10:58

to have a similar discussion

11:00

about what is working at home

11:02

and those homes with married

11:04

moms and dad where moms and

11:06

dad are actively involved in

11:09

the curriculum, in the school board

11:11

decisions, with great knowledge

11:13

of what's going on in the

11:15

classrooms of their daughters and

11:17

sons, it is that kind of

11:19

model ultimately that will give

11:21

us a substantial uptick in the

11:23

attainment levels that we want

11:25

to measure. So goes the country,

11:27

so goes the idea of

11:29

the repaired and restored American family.

11:31

And I think we have

11:34

to devote a lot more attention

11:36

at every level in our

11:38

country to the idea of healthy

11:40

family structures. Tim Gageline is

11:42

our guest. We're discussing a new

11:44

report on the state of

11:46

America's public education system. We'll discuss

11:48

the U .S. Department of Education

11:50

and its reform next. Throughout

12:08

the 50 days of Easter, sacred

12:10

music for the world. LutheranPublicRadio

12:13

.org. Listen

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24 -7 to

12:19

sacred music for

12:21

the Easter season.

12:23

LPR, LutheranPublicRadio .org. For

12:34

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has taught the faith, defended it

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against error, and shown forth the

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great treasures of the Lutheran Church

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and biblical doctrine. We're

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continuing this legacy by publishing issues and

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12:49

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teach biblical doctrine and show forth

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the treasures of God's Word. Visit our

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website to learn more and how

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to subscribe, witness .lsms .org. the

12:59

Lutheran witness helping you interpret

13:01

the world from a Lutheran

13:03

perspective. I'm Dr. Russell

13:06

Dawn, president of Concordia University,

13:08

Chicago. I'm thrilled to announce

13:10

the Prepared to Serve Church Professional

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Guarantee. Any new student

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Concordia University chicago with Christ

13:35

at the center. We stand

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tall for the church Lutheranism

13:39

in the public square. You're

13:41

listening to issues, etc This

13:43

is Pastor Matthew Harrison president

13:45

of the Lutheran Church, Missouri

13:47

Synod the LCMS operates the

13:49

second largest procule school system

13:51

in the United States What

13:53

can you expect from a

13:56

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod School? There's

13:58

one race, the human race. And

14:00

Jesus died for the sins of

14:02

every man, woman and child from

14:05

every land and every nation. Life

14:07

begins a conception. All life

14:09

is precious from womb to tomb. And

14:12

every student, parent and teacher is

14:14

created in the very image of

14:16

God. There's right and wrong. And

14:18

we know which is which from

14:20

the Ten Commandments. There are only

14:23

two sexes. male and female he

14:25

created them. Marriage is

14:27

the lifelong union of one man and

14:29

one woman. There's such a thing

14:31

as objective, absolute truth, and it's

14:33

found in the person and work

14:35

of Jesus Christ and His Word.

14:38

To find a Lutheran Church Missouri

14:40

Synod School near you, visit

14:42

LCMS .org slash schools. Welcome

14:55

back to Issues Cetera. I'm Todd

14:57

Wilkin. We're talking with Tim Gagelin to

14:59

focus on the family about a

15:01

new report on the state of America's

15:03

public education system. From

15:05

the Issues Cetera book of the

15:07

month for April, the Magdeburg

15:09

Confession, we do not intend to

15:11

allow our spirits to be

15:13

broken and to descend so quickly

15:16

to the point of total

15:18

despair, not for these comparatively insignificant

15:20

calamities, For what particularly marks

15:22

true courage, the kind Christians ought

15:24

to especially possess, is not

15:26

to despair of God's salvation, even

15:29

in the greatest misfortunes. Find

15:31

out more about the Magneburg

15:33

Confession at our website, issueztc

15:35

.org, or call

15:37

Concordia Publishing House,

15:40

1 -800 -325 -3040, 1

15:42

-800 -325 -3040. Tim,

15:45

is the elimination, or at the

15:47

very least the drastic reform, of

15:49

the U .S. Department of Education

15:51

necessary? I think

15:53

it is not only necessary,

15:55

but it may be 30

15:57

years past due. It's

16:00

very interesting. As a conservative

16:02

living and working in

16:04

Washington for almost four decades,

16:06

I have been to

16:09

limitless numbers of

16:11

debates, panels, discussions, conversations

16:13

about eliminating the

16:15

federal Department of Education, which

16:17

was created as a political

16:20

favor by former President Jimmy

16:22

Carter to the teachers unions

16:24

who had supported him in

16:26

his run for the presidency

16:28

in 1976. In other

16:31

words, as a way to say thank

16:33

you to the education bureaucracy, he

16:35

created a brand new federal

16:37

Department of Education. But

16:39

everybody knows, left and right,

16:41

that in the long history

16:43

of the American experience, the

16:45

federal government has never and

16:47

should never be in the

16:50

driver's seat of American education. Education

16:52

is primarily an issue

16:54

that begins first and foremost

16:56

with mothers and fathers. Then

16:59

it proceeds to local school

17:01

boards, local school systems and

17:03

then to the degree that

17:05

it's important to regional and

17:07

state discussions of education. So

17:10

eliminating the federal department of

17:12

education, I believe, is one of

17:14

the most effective tools that

17:17

the new administration could employ. And

17:19

I think to the degree

17:21

that there are viral roles for

17:23

other mechanisms within education as

17:25

it relates to colleges, universities, public

17:27

school systems, to the degree

17:29

that we have a national consensus

17:32

on that kind of funding

17:34

or relationship certainly those duties can

17:36

be moved to other departments

17:38

that already exist within the federal

17:40

government but eliminating the federal

17:42

department of education per se i

17:45

think is a very wide

17:47

and strategic and may i say

17:49

efficient use of taxpayer dollars

17:51

you say that we need to

17:53

go back to basics in

17:55

education what do you mean by

17:57

that You know,

18:00

I love this debate that

18:02

comes up, Todd, overwhelmingly, which

18:04

is that most Americans don't like

18:06

to be put in the camp

18:09

of you're always conservative or you're

18:11

always progressive or that kind of

18:13

misnomer of the word always. But

18:15

I think overwhelmingly, Americans

18:17

of goodwill don't mind being

18:19

called commonsensical. And it's

18:21

just commonsensical, isn't it? That

18:23

if we want to

18:25

improve American education, if we

18:27

are really dedicated as

18:29

a nation to the ecology

18:31

of the rising generation,

18:33

because after all, that's the

18:35

primary duty of adults

18:37

in our time. It is

18:39

the preparation of the

18:41

rising generation of young Americans.

18:43

who are educated first

18:45

and foremost for moral goodness

18:47

and virtue to be

18:49

made into good citizens. That's

18:51

the primary role of

18:54

education. It's not that

18:56

we, in any way, despise or

18:58

look down upon intellectual attainment.

19:00

Of course, we hold that up.

19:02

But it's always character over

19:04

intellect in the American experience. So

19:06

I think it is very important,

19:08

and I think we're already seeing

19:11

signs of this kind of revitalized

19:13

debate all around our country, that

19:15

we have to ask ourselves, what

19:17

is the purpose of education? How

19:19

are we actually applying that

19:21

to the rising generation of young

19:24

Americans? And then, having

19:26

applied both of those precepts,

19:28

we can measure. And I

19:30

think that if we pay

19:32

particular attention to the kinds

19:34

of family structures, community structures,

19:37

social structures that give us

19:39

a healthy national family environment,

19:41

I think we're going to

19:43

end up being very, very

19:45

pleased. And I think

19:47

there are already signs of that.

19:50

I remember having a debate

19:52

very early in the 1990s when

19:54

there were less than 80 ,000

19:56

homeschooled students. Here we

19:58

are in 2025, and

20:00

there are almost four million. We

20:02

have very healthy parochial and

20:04

private and religious school systems. In

20:06

other words, we have charters,

20:08

we have vouchers. There are all

20:10

kinds of things that are

20:12

happening that will give to us

20:15

the American revitalization we seek

20:17

in education, not apart from family,

20:19

but attendant to family, with plenty

20:21

of attention on the role

20:24

of faith and religion in the

20:26

public square and in our

20:28

public and government schools. There's nothing

20:30

unconstitutional about that. So I

20:32

think it is this kind of

20:34

matrix that will eventually leave

20:36

these very sobering statistics in the

20:38

dust. I really do believe

20:41

that better days are ahead in

20:43

American education. Tim,

20:45

you and I are both members

20:47

of the Lutheran Church of Missouri Synod.

20:50

LCMS congregations operate the second largest

20:52

parochial school system in the U .S.

20:54

Do you think that is now is

20:56

an opportune time for Lutheran schools? I

21:00

believe it's beyond an opportune

21:02

time, and I love the

21:04

observation of the late great

21:06

George Orwell, who said, Todd,

21:08

that the first duty of

21:10

an intelligent person is to

21:12

restate the obvious. And

21:14

I think we have arrived at

21:16

a moment where we as the Missouri

21:18

Senate Lutheran should restate the obvious. We

21:21

educate kids. That's what we

21:23

do. We have a wonderful

21:25

legacy of churning out great

21:27

citizens. and we pay attention

21:30

within our Lutheran schools to

21:32

all the things that we've

21:34

been talking about in this

21:36

wonderful conversation today. We

21:38

care deeply about mothers

21:40

and fathers, grandparents, aunts,

21:43

uncles. We want them to

21:45

be a part of the education

21:47

process, not apart from We're not

21:49

shy about saying that if you

21:51

want a wonderful group of educated

21:53

young people, pay attention to faith,

21:55

pay attention to religion. It matters.

21:58

You have to know things. And

22:00

I think that this goes together

22:02

in a Lutheran subculture that gives

22:04

us a thriving parochial school system

22:06

that we can be proud of.

22:08

And in fact, I would even

22:10

say that the Lutheran Church Missouri

22:12

Senate school system really deserves to

22:14

be a model for the country.

22:17

It's important to say what is it

22:19

about our schools that work so well. I

22:22

think we have a lot to share with

22:24

our country and they have a lot to learn

22:26

from us and I say that with humility

22:28

but it's such a wonderful model and such an

22:30

effective model that we need to go tell

22:32

a new generation. Tim

22:35

Gage -Line is vice president of government

22:37

and external relations at Focus on

22:39

the Family in Washington, D .C. He

22:41

formerly served as deputy director of

22:43

the White House Office of Public Liaison

22:46

for President George W. Bush. He's

22:48

author of several books, including Stumbling Toward

22:50

Utopia and How We Can Revive

22:52

the American Dream, and a recent column

22:54

for The Washington Times titled America's

22:56

Educational Freefall Continues. We'll post a link

22:58

to this column and to Tim's

23:00

books. on the podcast page

23:02

for this episode at issuesetc .org.

23:05

Tim, thanks. Thanks so

23:07

much, Todd. When

23:09

we return in hour two of

23:11

Issues, etc., live this Wednesday to

23:13

April the 23rd, your answer to

23:15

the question, what's your favorite Easter

23:17

hymn and why? 1 -877 -623 -6943. 877

23:20

-623, my IE.

23:25

Listen weekday afternoons to Pastor Todd

23:28

Wilkin and guests on Issues, etc. Issues,

23:30

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