0:00

individualism is a term used

0:02

today to describe the intuitive

0:04

way that we think about

0:06

ourselves as human beings. We

0:12

think

0:15

about ourselves as free, autonomous,

0:17

self -determining, and

0:19

we place a great emphasis upon our

0:21

feelings as being decisive for who we

0:23

are. Now, from a Christian

0:25

perspective, feelings are part of what it is to

0:28

be human. But also we understand

0:30

as Christians that made in

0:32

the image of God we are

0:34

dependent creatures. We're obliged creatures. We

0:36

don't self -invent or self

0:38

-create ourselves. And what I

0:41

want to do in this talk is analyze

0:43

the problem and then suggest ways that

0:45

the church can combat this

0:47

within our congregations. You

0:49

can meet and hear Dr.

0:51

Carl Truman making the case

0:53

against expressive individualism at this

0:55

year's Making the Case Conference,

0:57

July 18th and 19th at

1:00

Concordia University, Chicago. Learn more

1:02

at issuesetc .org. A

1:11

lot of big predictions were

1:13

made when Dobbs overturned

1:15

Roe v. Wade. Those

1:18

who were in support of abortion said

1:20

that women's health care would suffer,

1:22

that OBGYNs would flee states where there

1:25

were restrictive laws on abortion, and

1:27

it would just be a disaster all

1:29

around. Has any of that proven

1:31

to be true? Welcome back

1:33

to Issues, et cetera. I'm Todd Wilkin,

1:35

joining us to talk about two

1:37

issues, a study debunking claims that OBGYNs

1:39

would leave pro -life states and new

1:41

abortion data from the Guttmacher Institute, Dr.

1:44

Michael New visiting assistant professor

1:46

of social research and political science

1:48

at the Catholic University of

1:50

America, senior associate scholar at the

1:52

Charlotte Lozier Institute, Page Comstock

1:54

Cunningham Fellow with Americans United for Life

1:56

and a Columnist for National Review Online. Dr.

1:59

New, welcome back. Thanks, Abby.

2:01

Much appreciated. What news is

2:03

there for pro -lifers about

2:05

a new Guttmacher Institute report?

2:07

regarding re -legalization of abortion in

2:09

the states of Wisconsin and

2:11

Rhode Island? Sure.

2:13

Gumbacher came out with some

2:15

new abortion numbers for the year

2:17

2024, and they should be

2:19

seen as preliminary, but there

2:21

is some information that's kind of

2:24

useful and interesting to pro -lifers. First

2:26

off, in 2023, you

2:28

saw a Wisconsin circuit court

2:30

judge effectively overturned a

2:32

ban on abortion that was

2:34

in Wisconsin, and

2:36

abortion became legal in 2023. And

2:39

we know when abortion is

2:41

legal, numbers go up. And between

2:43

2023 and 2024, the number

2:45

of abortions performed in Wisconsin more

2:47

than quadrupled. So re -legalizing

2:49

abortion had a big impact on abortion

2:52

numbers. Abortions went way up.

2:54

Rhode Island made a more modest policy

2:56

change. Starting in 2023,

2:58

they started covering elective abortions,

3:00

through the state Medicaid program. And

3:03

we have a lot of data which shows

3:05

when state Medicaid programs cover abortion, abortion

3:07

numbers go up. Rhode Island was no exception.

3:10

Between 2023 and 2024, number of abortions

3:12

to perform in Rhode Island went

3:14

up by about 20%, which is a

3:16

pretty big increase. So public policy

3:18

does make a difference. And when abortion

3:20

policies are more permissive, abortion

3:22

numbers go up. What

3:24

information is there about women crossing

3:26

state lines to have and abortion. How

3:28

is that related to the use

3:30

of chemical abortion? Sure.

3:33

One thing the report looks at is a

3:35

number of women who cross state lines to

3:37

obtain an abortion. And they

3:39

found a number of women

3:41

who obtained abortions in other

3:43

states fell by over 8

3:45

% by between 2023 and

3:47

2024. So that kind

3:49

of tells us is that a

3:51

lot of women who are obtaining

3:54

abortions are getting them through telehealth.

3:56

They're ordering these up chose

3:58

our mind and taking them without

4:00

in -person medical supervision. That's

4:02

concerning for public health aspect that

4:04

if a woman has a ectopic

4:06

pregnancy that contains chemical abortion, that

4:08

can be fatal. If she's

4:10

further along the gestation, she realizes that can

4:12

have some negative health consequences. So

4:15

it obviously it's fatal to unborn children. So

4:17

it really shows that we need to step

4:19

our efforts to really get healthy human services

4:21

and the Food and Drug Administration to put

4:23

some limits back on these chemical abortion drugs.

4:26

What did abortion supporters predict

4:28

would happen for women's

4:30

medical health after the overturning

4:32

of Roe v. Wade? Sure

4:35

People support legal abortion often argue

4:37

that if you put pro -life laws

4:40

in place it's going to hurt

4:42

public health outcomes and one thing

4:44

they've claimed is that if you

4:46

enact pro -life laws lots of OBGYNs

4:48

will simply leave states with pro

4:50

-life laws in effect they'll go

4:52

to other states and that women and

4:54

girls living in states with strong

4:56

pro -life laws won't get necessary.

4:58

Healthcare, they deserve, won't get appropriate

5:00

medical attention, and that will hurt public

5:02

health outcomes. How

5:05

does a new report from

5:07

the Journal of the American Medical

5:09

Association debunk those predictions? Well,

5:11

it's interesting. This week, a new study

5:13

came out published by the Journal of

5:16

the American Medical Association, a very respected

5:18

medical journal, and it found that there's

5:20

been an increase in the number of

5:22

OBGYNs. since the Dom's decision. And what's

5:24

interesting is there's actually a bigger increase

5:26

in the states with pro -life laws

5:28

than the states where abortion is legal.

5:30

So this narrative is clearly not true.

5:32

You see, bigger increases are never practicing

5:34

OBGYNs and pro -life states than the states

5:36

where abortion is legal. And it's a

5:38

very well done study. I mean, they

5:40

got this data from a comprehensive registry

5:43

of health professionals. So it seems like

5:45

very good data in early debunks that

5:47

quote unquote pro -abortion narrative. How

5:49

do you explain the increase? in

5:51

practicing OBGYNs in states with pro

5:53

-life laws? Well, I

5:55

think you just see a general upward

5:57

trend, which is a good thing that the

5:59

more people can perform. Healthcare is certainly

6:01

a positive for public health. One

6:03

thing I always remind people

6:06

is that a relatively small percentage

6:08

of OBGYNs perform abortions. So

6:10

the legal status of abortion the given

6:12

state is not going to have much

6:14

difference, make much difference to the location

6:16

decisions of an OBGYN. If an OBGYN

6:18

does not perform abortions, they're not really

6:21

going to care whether abortion is legal

6:23

or not for the most part. In

6:25

some respects, you know, being in a

6:27

pro -life state might be attractive to

6:29

a lot of pro -life OBGYNs. So, again,

6:31

a few OBGYNs, two abortions, the legal

6:33

staffs of abortion just won't make much

6:35

difference as to where they move or

6:37

where they set up their practice. What

6:40

lessons should pro -lifers take away from

6:42

these two reports that we've discussed? Well,

6:45

first, I think from the group marker data,

6:47

we need to remember that public policy makes

6:50

a difference. That in places

6:52

like Rhode Island, Wisconsin, abortion

6:54

policy became a lot more permissive.

6:56

But there's some good news as

6:58

well that Florida started enforcing a

7:01

heartbeat act in 2024. And

7:03

their abortion numbers fell by about

7:05

12 ,000. So we know that pro -life

7:07

laws could save lives. And we

7:09

know that when abortion policy becomes more

7:11

permissive, more abortions happen. With

7:13

regard to the recent study in the

7:15

Journal of the American Medical Association, we

7:18

just know that a lot of pro

7:20

-abortion narratives about the negative public health

7:22

impacts of pro -life laws are untrue. Many

7:24

people claim that OBGYNs would flee states

7:26

with pro -life laws. That's not the

7:28

case. There have been increases, and actually

7:31

bigger increases in pro -life states than states

7:33

with abortion's legal, least in percentage terms.

7:35

So this narrative is incorrect. You can

7:37

certainly have good public health outcomes with

7:39

pro -life laws in effect. Dr.

7:42

Michael Lew is visiting assistant professor

7:44

of social research and political science

7:46

at the Catholic University of America.

7:48

He is Senior Associate Scholar at

7:50

the Charlotte Lozier Institute, Page Comstock

7:52

Cunningham Fellow with Americans United for

7:54

Life and a Columnist for National

7:56

Review Online. You can read

7:58

his columns on the podcast page

8:00

for this episode at issuesetc .org. Dr.

8:03

New, thanks. Thanks for having

8:05

me. Much appreciated. After Ted

8:07

Geese joins us on the other side,

8:09

we will review the TV series Adolescents.

8:11

Stay tuned. Well,

8:33

first of all my role is

8:35

to call balls and strikes and to

8:37

give a voice to half or

8:39

more than half or even sometimes like

8:41

80 % of the country on the

8:43

issues of the day. CNN political

8:45

commentator Scott Jennings talking about his presentation

8:48

at the 2025 Issues etc making

8:50

the case conference. I think what CNN

8:52

is doing in particular with the

8:54

10 o 'clock show It's a real

8:56

debating show and you're putting people at

8:58

the table who have diverse viewpoints

9:00

including conservative viewpoints I think our commitment

9:02

to that honestly is good for

9:04

American political discourse and my job is

9:06

to robustly participate in that and

9:08

give a whole bunch of people out

9:10

there who thought maybe the mainstream

9:12

media was ignoring them or didn't care

9:14

what they thought. Somebody to

9:16

represent, authentically represent their values. You

9:18

can meet and hear Scott Jennings

9:20

making the case for an alternative

9:22

voice in the mainstream media at

9:24

this year's Making the Case Conference,

9:27

July 18th and 19th at Concordia

9:29

University, Chicago. Learn more

9:31

at issuesetc .org. Throughout

9:42

the 50 days of

9:44

Easter, sacred music for

9:47

the world, LutheranPublicRadio .org. Listen

9:52

24 -7 to

9:54

sacred music

9:56

for the Easter

9:58

season. LPR,

10:00

LutheranPublicRadio .org. Life,

10:03

Redeemer, lives

10:08

At the heart of Lutherans Life

10:10

is good news. Good news that

10:12

brings hope to a culture so

10:14

focused on death. Lutherans for Life

10:16

equips Lutherans and their neighbors to

10:18

be gospel voices for life.

10:20

Lutherans for Life believes that gives

10:22

the gift of life to all

10:24

people from the moment of conception

10:26

natural death. Learn more about how

10:28

you and your congregation can help

10:30

bring hope and healing to all

10:32

the life issues through a wide

10:34

variety of resources and caring activities

10:36

at .org.