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app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

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you get your podcasts. Welcome

2:31

to Itcadap Here, a podcast where

2:33

here is the rapidly encroaching rise

2:35

of fascism. My name is Mia

2:37

Wong, and one of the major

2:39

factors of fascism that we have

2:42

been covering on the show has

2:44

been the increase in just effectively

2:46

straight up black baggings by ICE

2:48

and Immigrations Enforcement in general. We

2:50

have spent a good amount of

2:52

time covering a bunch of different

2:54

angles of this, but there is

2:56

another incredibly distressing angle. that we

2:59

have not covered as much yet,

3:01

which is their targeting of labor

3:03

organizers. And with me to talk

3:05

about that is Mark Medina from

3:07

Portland Giles with Justice and the

3:09

Coalition of Independent Unions. And yeah,

3:11

Mark, welcome to the show. Hi,

3:13

thanks to having me. Yeah, I'm

3:16

glad to have you on. So

3:18

one of the most pressing sort

3:20

of black baggings that's happened fairly

3:22

recently, is ICE's kidnapping of Alfredo

3:24

Juarez, J Federino, otherwise known as

3:26

Lalo. Can you tell us about?

3:28

sort of his work and the

3:30

projects he's been doing and formulas

3:33

you need us for legislation? Yeah,

3:35

so it's been a very disheartening

3:37

and scary couple of weeks since

3:39

this happened because it opens up

3:41

a new path for the state

3:43

to go after organizers to go

3:45

after workers and the most underprivileged

3:47

in our society in a way

3:50

that I suppose we all expected,

3:52

but now that we see it,

3:54

now that we see it. happening

3:56

to people that we know in

3:58

our community, it's becoming apparent. There

4:00

is no turning back from the

4:02

idea that we have to be

4:04

able to take this on headfirst.

4:07

We as activists, as organizers, have

4:09

to look at this as an

4:11

actual thing in our day-to-day that

4:13

we have to combat and incorporate

4:15

into our organizing. So maybe it

4:17

might be a little helpful to

4:19

start off with a little bit

4:21

of a backstory on so I

4:24

mean this indeed by La Cicea.

4:26

So the union has its origins going

4:28

back to 2013. The area in which

4:30

they organize, the Bellingham, or the Washington,

4:33

walk in Skagit areas, has a very

4:35

particular type of immigrant community there. Lello

4:37

himself is of Mexico background. There's a

4:40

lot of indigenous Mexican populations in the

4:42

region. It's also one that has long

4:44

roots. A lot of these people go

4:46

back generations, have been here for quite

4:49

some time. This area also happens to

4:51

be, very particularly with the non-Hispanic population,

4:53

particularly the white... population, a very conservative,

4:56

particularly conservative, for the area. Yeah. It's

4:58

one of the very few areas since

5:00

the Northwest that Donald Trump came to

5:03

visit. It's an area that has had

5:05

repeated attacks on the Indian community. And

5:07

so it's in this context that workers

5:10

are organizing in 2013 for this first

5:12

independent union. And two, it's important to

5:14

mention the independent part of it. A

5:17

lot of the organizes from the start

5:19

of this of the union came from

5:21

a tradition. of the United Farm Workers

5:23

in California. Some of them worked with

5:26

Susa Chavez in the in the heyday

5:28

of the United Farm Workers. And in

5:30

the years and decades since then, since

5:33

the Delano void costs and other things,

5:35

there's been a growing rift of what

5:37

the next steps should be. And I

5:40

think that a lot of farm workers,

5:42

because they don't organize under the general

5:44

labor law that we have for most

5:47

workers, there is a sort of patchwork

5:49

system. for how foreign working organizing happens.

5:51

in the United States that's dependent upon

5:53

different states, the legislatures, and for the

5:56

most part, with the exception of only

5:58

two states, farm workers don't have the

6:00

same kind of protections that regular workers

6:03

generally in the society have for union

6:05

recognition for collective bargaining. Only Washington and

6:07

New York at the moment, I believe,

6:10

have laws that allow for elections for

6:12

farm worker unions. And there's a very

6:14

particular reason for that being the case.

6:17

Farm workers were excluded. from the Wagner

6:19

Act for having general labor rights. In

6:21

the 1930s, because precisely it was seen

6:23

as immigrant labor. And immigrants were not

6:26

seen as meriting the same rights as

6:28

white American, in the same way that

6:30

domestic workers were removed, because I was

6:33

seen at the time as black labor.

6:35

So it has its roots and racism.

6:37

And yeah, and that's something that, you

6:40

know, like you can tie that exclusion.

6:42

Like there's a straight line between that

6:44

and Japanese internments, which also to a

6:47

large extent is just is about. land

6:49

seizure and the sort of like fusion

6:51

of racism, specifically racism in the farming

6:53

sector with with tax and labor rights

6:56

and with this desire to just sort

6:58

of seize literally the land and labor

7:00

from non-white people. Yeah. Yeah, so that's

7:03

a long and bleak history. No, absolutely.

7:05

And I'm sure your audience is well

7:07

aware of a lot of these subject

7:10

matter. It is a bleak history. And

7:12

it wasn't until groups like the United

7:14

Farm Workers in the 60s and the

7:17

70s. I think... began to create the

7:19

possibility for something new for the Hispanic

7:21

community. It was the United Farm Workers

7:23

that built not just a lot of

7:26

solidarity with other immigrant groups in the

7:28

California area, but they also built a

7:30

sense of pride and identity and belonging

7:33

for a lot of communities. I grew

7:35

up in Boyle Heights, East Los Angeles.

7:37

Says that Chavez and the night farm

7:40

worker murals are everywhere. You know, me

7:42

and my friends would often joke that

7:44

such Chavez like the patient saints. if

7:47

he's Los Angeles, even though it's nowhere

7:49

near Delano. And there's a reason for

7:51

that. I think that a lot of

7:53

us... looked up to the United Farm

7:56

Workers, we looked up to the Farm

7:58

Workers Union movement and we saw in

8:00

them our heroes, our modern day heroes.

8:03

We saw them, we saw people who

8:05

said, be proud to be brown, you

8:07

know. There's a courage that comes from

8:10

that history. The Union movement that then

8:12

sprung up in 2013 in the Bellingham

8:14

Northern Washington area was coming out of

8:17

that milieu. They understood that background, they

8:19

understood that history, but they also understood

8:21

that there was very little organizing. in

8:23

the region. There was a lot of

8:26

fear in the region. It's very difficult

8:28

to organize farm workers. To have access

8:30

to a lot of these areas, you

8:33

have to cross just private property for

8:35

quite some time before you reach the

8:37

first farm workers. And it becomes very,

8:40

very difficult to have organizing happen. And

8:42

it's intentional that way. The rising farm

8:44

worker unions that happened in the 60s

8:47

and 70s had a massive plummet by

8:49

the time that we get into the

8:51

90s and 2000s. And so these workers

8:53

had heard these stories, had heard by

8:56

this legacy, but had been essentially dealing

8:58

with increasing frustration, racist behavior by bosses,

9:00

lower and lower pay, and the use

9:03

of certain types of immigrants to try

9:05

to scab their jobs. It'd be the

9:07

capitalist class using one type of worker

9:10

against another type of worker, picking them

9:12

against each other. It's in this context

9:14

in 2013 that this union starts to

9:17

form. They go public at that time

9:19

period. They call for recognition and they

9:21

start taking action directly. And they organize

9:23

this years and years long boycott campaign

9:26

to gain recognition to get the employer

9:28

to start bargaining. And after years and

9:30

years of this and court battles and

9:33

the employer is trying to lay everyone

9:35

off and hire certain types of newer

9:37

immigrants coming in to replace all of

9:40

them. putting one worker against another, all

9:42

these types of maneuvers. By 2017, these

9:44

workers win a contract. And the philosophy

9:47

of the union since then has been

9:49

not just to grow this union, but

9:51

also for them to be able to

9:53

stand on their own two feet. Their

9:56

idea is that they are very proud

9:58

of their independent nature of that union.

10:00

They're not part of, you know, the

10:03

AFLCIO, they're not part of the United

10:05

Farm Workers, they're not part of any

10:07

other organization. You know, when I spoke

10:10

to some of their leaders last year,

10:12

one of the things that came to

10:14

mind was they brought up a quote

10:17

from Eugene Defts and the notion of

10:19

like if we were to lead you

10:21

into the promise plan, We can't rely

10:23

on anyone else because if we, if

10:26

they promise us things today, tomorrow they'll

10:28

hold something over us. That's the notion

10:30

that farm workers leave this movement and

10:33

leave this union is an incredibly powerful

10:35

statement of what working class people can

10:37

do. The kinds of workers that everyone

10:40

else kind of looks at, they could

10:42

never do it. These, you know, these

10:44

workers could never handle this kind of

10:47

level of struggle and couldn't do this

10:49

kind of organization have built one of

10:51

the most powerful independent farm worker unions

10:54

in the West Coast. Lelo. Alfredo Lelowares

10:56

was a founding member of this union.

10:58

He was a farm worker starting at

11:00

the age of 12, and since then,

11:03

devoted his entire life to organizing, to

11:05

helping workers, to being the kind of

11:07

person who commits himself to the work

11:10

of making the world a better place

11:12

than he founded. You know, at 25,

11:14

he is significantly younger than me. And

11:17

when I think of people who I

11:19

look up, too, who I think of,

11:21

wow. Yeah, I have met a little

11:24

many a time over the years. He's

11:26

a very soft-spoken, very thoughtful type of

11:28

person. And yeah, I think that the

11:30

labor movement owes him a bit of

11:33

a debt now. It is time that

11:35

we as a whole stand up for

11:37

him. Yeah. Yeah, we are going to

11:40

go to ads regrettably, and then when

11:42

we come back, we are going to

11:44

start talking, I think, a bit more

11:47

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less painful. day,

16:00

which is to go after specific

16:03

union leaders in the labor

16:05

movement, to go after civil

16:07

rights leaders. You've seen this

16:09

happen also when it comes

16:11

to Palestinian rights activists

16:13

around the country. The idea

16:16

is pretty simple to silence

16:18

the loudest voices to cut the

16:20

leadership from the movement. On

16:22

March 25th, Alfredo Lelo Juarez

16:24

was dropping off his girlfriend

16:26

at a nearby farm for

16:29

work. and was accosted by ICE

16:31

agents as he was exercising

16:33

his rights or what he thought his

16:36

rights were at the time because of

16:38

the regime. Who knows what your

16:40

rights are? Yeah. They broke his

16:43

window. They dragged him out of

16:45

his car. You know, this was

16:47

obviously a very traumatic incident, but

16:49

also is a real shock

16:52

to the union to the

16:54

local Hispanic community in the

16:56

area within hours of that. workers,

16:59

organizers, community, went to move

17:01

to try to carry a

17:03

response, knowing that time was

17:05

of the essence. It was

17:07

then taken to a localized

17:09

facility. He's now since been

17:12

moved to a detention center

17:14

in Tacoma, Washington. A large

17:16

rally of hundreds took place

17:18

calling for his immediate release. What

17:20

we know now, seemingly, is

17:22

that at the very last minute...

17:25

Apologies, I forget the exact

17:27

day, but it was within a couple

17:29

of days of the kidnapping.

17:31

Lellow was pulled off. He has

17:33

an automatic stay of deportation

17:35

in place. At this point,

17:37

no longer has any legal

17:39

authority to remove Lellow. This

17:41

came at the last minute. He

17:43

was in line for deportation and

17:46

was removed to the very last

17:48

minute. However, while this is good

17:50

news, this is not good for

17:52

someone's... personal health and

17:55

well-being. These are massively

17:57

cramped facilities, underfunded facilities.

18:00

There is horror stories around the country

18:02

of the conditions in some of these

18:04

places. Every day that Lello is stuck

18:06

behind these prison walls is an injustice

18:08

to our movement. Yeah. Yeah. The thing

18:10

it immediately reminds me of is the

18:12

story of Thomas Payne, who was like

18:15

slated to be executed in the French

18:17

Revolution. And They didn't execute him because

18:19

his door was open so they didn't

18:21

see the slash line on the cell

18:23

that was supposed to execute him and

18:25

then like the next day the reign

18:28

of terror ended with the coup against

18:30

the Jacobins. It reminds me a lot

18:32

of that, but you know, but on

18:34

the other hand, here's the thing, we

18:36

have gotten the stay of the deportation

18:38

but we have not brought down the

18:40

rate of terror yet, so. Yeah, and

18:43

it would hope this would have to

18:45

wait four more years for that one.

18:47

Yeah, good Lord, good Lord. Yeah, yeah.

18:49

Yeah, so let's let's talk a bit

18:51

about. So I mean, obviously, you know,

18:53

what we're seeing here in this, this

18:56

is, you know, the connection that you

18:58

made is where we're seeing just on

19:00

a sort of broad scale, the use

19:02

of the state and of the sort

19:04

of black bagging and of these deportations

19:06

as a way to target organizers from

19:08

Palestine to label organizers. And I think

19:11

something critical about, you know, one of

19:13

the first things you were saying here

19:15

about the fact that they're targeting sort

19:17

of the loudest voices in the community.

19:19

And I think a big part of

19:21

this is that they know that their

19:24

position isn't as strong as they're making

19:26

it out to be, right? Like they

19:28

have just detonated a nuke across the

19:30

entire economy. They are systemically going through

19:32

and individually fucking over every single group

19:34

of people who's supposed to be their

19:36

base. And I think part of what

19:39

they're doing is they're trying to spread

19:41

sort of raw terror and spread fear

19:43

and you know and and attack the

19:45

critical infrastructure of organizing because they want

19:47

to make it look like resisting them

19:49

as impossible. And that's just not true.

19:52

They can be. Yeah, absolutely. I think

19:54

that oftentimes particularly... statistic power wants and

19:56

needs to present itself as inevitable as

19:58

overwhelming and impossible to defeat. In part

20:00

because it's meant to hide the ultimate

20:02

weakness of some of these powers. The

20:04

actual power that these farm workers showed

20:07

against the Sakuma farms when they went

20:09

on strike and boycotted for years and

20:11

years and years out in the fields

20:13

talking to workers for years and years

20:15

and years and years. It showed that

20:17

no matter how powerful some of these

20:20

companies are, some of these CEOs are.

20:22

that the power of workers overwhelms and

20:24

the power of solidarity overwhelms. And they

20:26

know that. Going after leadership, going after

20:28

some of the most, some of the

20:30

bravest people in our movement is a

20:33

way of trying to hit the movement

20:35

at the knees and trying to convince

20:37

folks that struggle is impossible. But I

20:39

think it is important to remember that

20:41

what we're doing, the struggle now, the

20:43

response. This is how we show the

20:45

population, the world, you know, our communities.

20:48

that they are not inevitable. It is

20:50

not insurmountable. And so in by taking

20:52

action, responding to the kinds of assisted

20:54

behaviors of the state, we show how

20:56

feeble the state can be at times,

20:58

even when it seems it's most treacherous

21:01

and awful. Yeah, and I think a

21:03

lot of times when we win fights,

21:05

it can be very, very hard to

21:07

actually see our victory because we don't

21:09

see the world that could have been

21:11

if we didn't fight. And that's the

21:13

thing I think about with the first

21:16

shop administration, where during the first shop

21:18

administration, they absolutely wanted to be doing

21:20

this kind of shit. And they were

21:22

able to do a lot of terrible

21:24

stuff, but they weren't able to sort

21:26

of go this far because of the

21:29

kind of mass mobilizations that shut down

21:31

a lot of the kinds of things

21:33

that they wanted to do. And I

21:35

think that's a kind of victory that

21:37

is hard to kind of like process,

21:39

because all we see is the suffering

21:41

that did happen, and we can never

21:44

see. an image of like all of

21:46

the people, you know, who got to

21:48

continue living their lives because we stop

21:50

them. And that I think is another

21:52

sort of powerful tool here. But also

21:54

we do have an opportunity to make

21:57

sure that we can beat them right

21:59

here and right now in a way

22:01

that's very very public and visible. And

22:03

that's a question mark about that in

22:05

my mind because you know my entire

22:07

adult life I've heard stories of the

22:09

state repression against union organizers in the

22:12

20s and the 30s in the 40s.

22:14

You hear the stories if you're an

22:16

organizer about the violidareas. and how hard

22:18

it was in the past. And we

22:20

forget that a lot of that does

22:22

continue on. It's just not where you

22:25

would imagine it, where a lot of

22:27

American workers imagine it. And so they

22:29

don't see it in their shops and

22:31

their factories and their unions. But this

22:33

right here is an attack on the

22:35

labor movement. Had this been the head

22:37

of the electricians union, the head of

22:40

the SCIIU? Had this been an attack

22:42

on what a lot of Americans would

22:44

view as the mainstream labor movement, this

22:46

would be headlines. The fact that it

22:48

isn't shows and that it has been

22:50

so much work to try to get

22:53

attention to a union leader being picked

22:55

up and kidnapped by the state should

22:57

be a blaring red light on the

22:59

labor movement to take action immediately. I

23:01

hope that what we're doing is the

23:03

first steps of that because You know,

23:05

this is one of those moments, you

23:08

know, they went after the trade unionists

23:10

and I was not a trade unionist.

23:12

Well, they're going after the farm workers.

23:14

I am not a farm worker. It

23:16

isn't incumbent upon us morally to stand

23:18

up one another at this point in

23:21

time. Yeah, and I think there's been

23:23

a real kind of real cowardice and

23:25

a real sort of appeasement of power

23:27

and a real sort of demonstration of

23:29

where a lot of these unions politics

23:31

are. I mean, we saw, we saw

23:34

the way that the way that the

23:36

way that the teamsters, the teamsters, like

23:38

leadership, like leadership, like leadership, like leadership,

23:40

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

23:42

like, just, I mean, just, you know,

23:44

openly went to speak at the RNC,

23:46

right? We've been seeing the UAW, which

23:49

traditionally has had better, like, immigration politics

23:51

in the last few years than a

23:53

lot of these other sort of mainstream

23:55

unions. but has also been sort of

23:57

going to bat for Trump's tariff. Like,

23:59

I've been calling you the turf tariffs,

24:02

tariffs because of the wages of transphobia,

24:04

but you know, they've been going to

24:06

bat for like the turf tariffs, right?

24:08

And that I think is like part

24:10

of why they've been sort of unable

24:12

to like respond to this moment and

24:14

why they've been unable to respond to

24:17

the past fucking 50 years of moments,

24:19

which is that like if you're sort

24:21

of like labor politics is rooted in

24:23

this sort of like American nationalist like

24:25

American jobs for American workers' right and

24:27

it's not actually based in the power

24:30

of workers and the power of workers

24:32

everywhere then you're going to lose it's

24:34

not it's not just sort of reactionary

24:36

politics also it is it's also bad

24:38

politics and we're seeing it right now

24:40

yeah and I think that the history

24:42

of the labor movement has been an

24:45

interesting one in my adult life because

24:47

you know I'm as pro-laborous they come

24:49

however the history of labor movement in

24:51

the modern day has been a fascinating

24:53

one it is one that when it

24:55

came to large strikes was that it's

24:58

nadier at the mid and late 2000s.

25:00

I think at one point it was

25:02

just over a dozen strikes over 2000

25:04

workers and you compare that to the

25:06

hide the labor movement in the 40s

25:08

and the 50s when it was in

25:10

the hundreds and you had strike actions

25:13

all the time and that is what

25:15

was in the hundreds and you had

25:17

strike actions all the time and that

25:19

is what built so much of what

25:21

we called middle class for some and

25:23

it was this really historic moment at

25:26

the rank and file have been trying

25:28

to kind of reshaped the labor movement

25:30

and the thoughts and the ideas of

25:32

the new. But it comes with its

25:34

own regressive setbacks and it comes with

25:36

its own shortcomings of leadership. You know,

25:38

the teamster is making statements around immigration

25:41

rights was a very unfortunate thing to

25:43

be said in the modern day, the

25:45

modern context. I think that, you know,

25:47

other unions seemingly looking to you know,

25:49

circle the wagons rather than take the

25:51

risks that need that need to happen

25:54

in this current time has really shown

25:56

a lack of a imagination from some

25:58

of the mainstream unions. And the thing

26:00

is, I hope for the best for

26:02

them. I want them to succeed and

26:04

I want them to get better because

26:07

the world is a better place for

26:09

having these larger unions. However, it's the

26:11

independent movements, the independent unions, like Familius

26:13

Unidisia, like these other unions in the

26:15

region, that can be the kind of

26:17

canary in the coal mine, the kind

26:19

of labs of experimentation that can be

26:22

the first people out to do some

26:24

of the most. radical and interesting and

26:26

worker-centric type of movement building and messaging.

26:28

Like, I think there is a reason

26:30

why it was the coalition of independent

26:32

unions here in the Pacific Northwest that

26:35

came up with the notion of having

26:37

trans day of solidarity, this idea of

26:39

patterning contracts together to have inclusive and

26:41

protections for trans workers, and having that

26:43

be a thing that unions take up

26:45

together. I think that it's... incredibly notable

26:47

that it's groups like females who need

26:50

this, well as thisia, that carry out

26:52

this long years-long boycott and created a

26:54

model by which other workers in the

26:56

region can not just organize themselves, but

26:58

organize themselves on a low-cost member-led democratic

27:00

model. I think it's important to see

27:03

that sometimes the large unions have to

27:05

start looking at some of the radical

27:07

pragmatism that comes from the necessities of

27:09

these smaller independent campaigns. Yeah, and I

27:11

mean before we go to ads I

27:13

think the last thing I want to

27:15

say there is like you know the

27:18

other option They have is to do

27:20

the option of what the unions didn't

27:22

during the rise of the Nazis The

27:24

unions fell online, right? They fell in

27:26

line because they were scared and they

27:28

thought that they could fucking win benefits

27:31

from it and You know it saved

27:33

some of them like there were a

27:35

few of those people like just became

27:37

Nazis But the rest of them got

27:39

fucking liquidated anyways So those are your

27:41

options, right? You either stand and fight

27:43

now with the independent unions, or you

27:46

become part of the regime and eventually

27:48

get liquidated when, you know, Trump in

27:50

like, fucking two and a half years

27:52

science executive order that says unions are

27:54

illegal. whatever. Yeah. And what does that

27:56

do at the end of the day?

27:59

Even if it stays, even if you're

28:01

the head of some of these large

28:03

unions, and by working with the administrative,

28:05

the administration today, by selling your soul,

28:07

by selling the movement out, you give

28:09

up the moral high ground of our

28:11

movement, of our working class democratic movement,

28:14

you give it up for another generation.

28:16

Then when workers, when people like myself

28:18

growing up, looking at images of the

28:20

United Farm workers, There are similar, I

28:22

presume, there are similar people in the

28:24

United States growing up who look that

28:27

way up to the United Auto Workers,

28:29

who look that way up to the

28:31

teachers union. What happens to those children,

28:33

to those kids, those young people who

28:35

want to be the next, the next

28:37

leadership, the next era of the labor

28:40

movement, they will not look at us

28:42

as having the moral high ground. We

28:44

give that up. We give our role

28:46

in history, our moral role in history

28:48

to fight for the working class when

28:50

we do things like this. Yeah, and

28:52

what you've become instead is just another

28:55

extension of the state. You've become like

28:57

one of the like the national syndicates

28:59

in like Franco is Spain. And what

29:01

that does to you is people, people

29:03

don't look at you in a generation

29:05

as a labor movement. They look at

29:08

you as just another arm of a

29:10

fascist regime. And it doesn't have to

29:12

be like that. It really doesn't. But

29:14

yeah, I take no pleasure in saying

29:16

this. But it's an unfortunate reality and

29:18

hopefully the turn around can come from

29:20

anywhere. It can come from unexpected places,

29:23

and I hope that there is one.

29:25

And things like solidarity for Lelow, I

29:27

hope it be a small link in

29:29

the chain that moves the pendulum right

29:31

back into the direction of unethical and

29:33

moral superiority that comes with fighting for

29:36

working class folks. Yeah. We're going to

29:38

take an ad break, and when we

29:40

come back, we're going to talk about

29:42

what we can do for Lelow right

29:44

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