0:00

I'm in terms of life. It's the

0:02

Breakfast Club. The world's most dangerous

0:04

morning show. Hey! Angela E. is

0:06

kind of like the big sister that

0:08

always picks in the boy. That's not

0:11

how it goes. That's not how anything

0:13

goes. Yeah, me's really like a... The

0:15

best DJ ever, but leave that. Sean Lemon

0:17

is the wild card. And I'm about to

0:19

give somebody the credit they deserve for

0:21

being stupid. I know that's right. Listen

0:23

to the Breakfast Club weekday mornings from

0:25

6 to 10 on 106 7 the

0:28

B. Columbus is real hip-hoppping on MB.

0:29

6 to 10 on 106 7 to B. Columbus

0:32

is real hip-popping on Airbnb. This

0:35

is, it could happen here. I

0:38

am not going to El Salvador.

0:40

It's not gonna happen. No way.

0:42

No thank you, Mr. President. I'm

0:45

Garrison Davis. I'm joined by James

0:47

Stout. Hi, Garrison. We're here

0:49

to talk about possibly the most

0:51

upsetting thing I've seen

0:53

in American politics in like

0:55

the past six months to

0:58

maybe even, I don't know, this really

1:00

had hit me for like the past

1:02

few years, like, yes. What happened

1:04

on Monday in the Oval Office is

1:06

kind of the most black pill I've ever

1:08

been, which is not a great way to

1:11

start an episode. Yeah, it like, it made

1:13

me feel like I found 2023 very

1:15

hard, like going out and seeing people

1:17

freezing in the desert and then coming

1:19

home and seeing by the ice cream

1:21

on the timeline. But like this was

1:23

different. This was so like blatant.

1:25

There's like a level of like

1:27

intentional depravity that you're reminded

1:30

of more blatantly blatantly.

1:32

So. And like Buchale's trolling of

1:35

everyone. So we're going to

1:37

be talking about an oval

1:39

office meeting between President

1:41

Trump and El Salvador

1:43

President Buchale. I guess I

1:46

could learn his first name. Naib

1:48

Buchale. There you go. You

1:50

know he's Palestinian Salvadorian.

1:52

Are you fucking serious? No, his

1:55

dad's an e-mom. I don't even

1:57

have time for that. This is

1:59

just fucking. I'm sorry if anyone's

2:01

driving has had an accident

2:04

upon hearing that. So as

2:06

you probably know, recently the

2:08

United States government has

2:10

sent upwards of 300

2:12

people immigrants to the El

2:15

Salvador Terrorism Confignment

2:17

Center, this prison black

2:19

site that people never returned

2:22

from. I guess I could point to for

2:24

a pop culture reference, which feels

2:26

a little bit in bad taste. But

2:28

you can point to like the prison

2:31

in the TV show Andor as being

2:33

a very comparable facility, frankly. Except

2:35

they turn off the lights in

2:37

Andor. They do not turn off the lights

2:40

in Sea Cot. Lights are on all the time.

2:42

They put 10 to 20 people per cell.

2:44

It's pretty bad. Jameson has done

2:46

episodes on Sea Cot in the past.

2:48

We'll probably keep doing more. The lights

2:50

thing, by the way, was a specific

2:52

policy change by Bukalet. There

2:54

was a particularly violent weekend in

2:57

El Salvador. And as a result,

2:59

he stopped letting people who were

3:01

detained for gang crimes go outside

3:03

and stopped building windows into the

3:05

prison and just put the lights

3:07

on. Because a way of punishing, I guess

3:10

the gangs were punishing the people who

3:12

were detained there. Yeah, they can't go

3:14

outside. They stay in their cell for

3:16

almost 24 hours a day. They might

3:18

occasionally get 30 minutes outside, but that's

3:20

not even confirmed because no one's even

3:23

allowed inside to see what's going on in

3:25

there. And we've sent upwards of

3:27

300 immigrants there. the majority, vast

3:29

majority of which have no criminal

3:31

record, even if you do have

3:33

a criminal record, being renditioned to

3:36

a foreign prison camp is still

3:38

bad. But this is something that Trump

3:40

hopes to expand on greatly, and they

3:43

are currently defending their ability to do

3:45

so in the courts, since it

3:47

has been learned that a few people

3:49

sent there may have been partially sent

3:52

by accident, but the Trump administration

3:54

is refusing to return these

3:56

people, and is instead still

3:58

trying to convince the public that

4:01

these are dangerous terrorists that

4:03

deserve to be disappeared. So let's

4:05

kind of start with that main

4:07

case. The case that's receiving the

4:10

most public attention right now is

4:12

of a Maryland man named Kilmer,

4:14

Abrego Garcia, who's the subject of

4:16

a district court case that has been

4:18

sent up to the Supreme Court and

4:21

then sent back to the district court

4:23

on whether this man can be returned

4:25

home to his U.S. citizen wife and

4:27

child. And then on Monday, April 14th,

4:30

in the Oval Office meeting, President

4:32

Buchalay said that he will

4:34

not return this Maryland immigrant with

4:36

protected legal status back to the

4:39

United States, who ICE admits was sent

4:41

to CCOT based on a quote-unquote

4:43

administrative error. Buchalay said, quote,

4:45

how can I smuggle a terrorist into

4:48

the United States? Of course I'm not

4:50

going to do it. The question is

4:52

preposterous, unquote. The El Salvador president

4:54

also balked at the idea of

4:56

releasing Garcia from Sikkah since he

4:58

can't have a quote-unquote terrorist free

5:01

in his country and lying about Garcia

5:03

being a criminal. I am going to play

5:05

a few clips in this episode because

5:07

I think it is necessary to listen

5:09

to these people actually say the words that

5:12

they are saying in the tone that they're

5:14

saying them and the exact phrasing on

5:16

these I think is actually pretty

5:18

important right now. So unfortunately you

5:20

are going to have to hear the voices of

5:22

a few people who you might not rather hear

5:24

from, including the president of El Salvador. So I'll

5:26

play this first clip. Do you plan to

5:29

return him to the United States?

5:31

Do you plan on this? Do

5:33

you plan to return him? Well,

5:35

I guess, I'm supposed to suggest

5:37

that a smuggle a terrorist in

5:39

the United States, right? Tell me

5:41

how can I smuggle him. How

5:43

can I return him to the

5:45

United States? It's like, I mean,

5:47

the question is preposterous. How can

5:50

I, as a model a terrorist

5:52

of the United States? I don't

5:54

have the power to return him

5:56

to the United States. Yeah, but

5:58

I'm not really soon. I mean,

6:00

but not very fond of releasing

6:02

terrorists into our country. We just

6:04

turned the murder capital of the

6:06

world to the safest country of

6:08

the Western Hemisphere and you want

6:10

us to go back into the

6:12

releasing criminals so we can go

6:14

back to being the murder capital

6:16

of the world. That's not going

6:18

to happen. Well, they'd love to

6:20

have a criminal, you know, with

6:22

these people. It's just insane. Like,

6:24

the whole... pretense of any, any

6:26

like serious engagement with reality there.

6:28

It's just gone. Yeah, and they're

6:30

both like maiming that neither of

6:32

them have the ability to make

6:34

any kind of deal between each

6:37

other to, to send people back,

6:39

even though they have the ability

6:41

to make a deal to send

6:43

people there. Yeah, as they sit

6:45

in the same room. The whole

6:47

time, Michaeli is talking, back into

6:49

the United States. despite a Supreme

6:51

Court order to facilitate the return

6:53

of this immigrant back into the

6:55

country. The whole smuggling framing is

6:57

obviously absurd with him saying, like,

6:59

I don't have the power to

7:01

return him to the United States.

7:03

All he needs to do is

7:05

release him from CCOT and the

7:07

US can fly him back, right?

7:09

Just as we flew him to

7:11

El Salvador. Like the two heads

7:13

of state are sitting right next

7:15

to each other. They could agree

7:17

to do this at any time,

7:19

but now everyone's pretending that suddenly

7:21

they don't have the power to

7:23

undo. what they seemingly had the

7:25

power to do in the first

7:27

place. Like, Bukaley has ruled, and

7:29

we're going to do a whole

7:31

episode of Bukaley and like his

7:33

rise to power and then his

7:35

use of power, but like, he's

7:37

ruled under a state of exception

7:39

for years in El Salvador, which

7:41

allows them to detain people without

7:44

warrants, without trials, right? Like, like,

7:46

we just get to lock people

7:48

up, why would I not do

7:50

that? In effect, they are arguing

7:52

that every single human being that

7:54

is sent to CCOT by the

7:56

United States is unable to ever

7:58

leave the prison alive. That's basically

8:00

what they're saying. They're saying both

8:02

parties, both Trump and Bukalay are

8:04

unable to have someone who's been

8:06

sent there to return. So they're

8:08

saying like no one's able to

8:10

do anything. Like they're just stuck

8:12

there until they die. And like

8:14

this is part of the design

8:16

of CCOT. The person who runs...

8:18

Like the CCOT like security has

8:20

said that they do not intend

8:22

in any person ever being released

8:24

from CCOT. You are not designed

8:26

to get out. You are stuck

8:28

there forever. No one's ever left

8:30

there. Yeah. It's just where you

8:32

get disappeared. And that's all that

8:34

it is. And I think part

8:36

of why they're so unwilling to

8:38

send Garcia back is because then

8:40

you have someone like the first

8:42

person who's ever like gotten out

8:44

and can talk about what it's

8:46

actually like in there. at the

8:48

prison bars. Yeah, Buchelli is very

8:51

reticent to release anyone for that

8:53

reason and like there are plenty

8:55

of allegations and like I think

8:57

in the time magazine his publicist

8:59

is not usually controversial that he

9:01

he made deals with gangs in

9:03

the past in El Salvador right

9:05

to get them to reduce the

9:07

murder rate and like he certainly

9:09

wouldn't like to hear that testified

9:11

to certainly not in the United

9:13

States court right so like he

9:15

doesn't want people to be released

9:17

from there either. Like you say,

9:19

they don't want anyone to be

9:21

able to go to any international

9:23

human rights courts and testify as

9:25

to what happened to them there.

9:27

So it's kind of in his

9:29

interest to never have anyone be

9:31

released. It's not just also, I

9:33

guess, like in his interest, he's

9:35

also being paid, right, $20,000 per

9:37

detainee per year by the United

9:39

States right now. So he also

9:41

has a financial interest in keeping

9:43

people in there. Even this per

9:45

year deal makes... Now kind of

9:47

makes zero sense because both of

9:49

them are arguing that there's no

9:51

way to send anyone back. Right.

9:53

So like, it's not that it's

9:55

even like, oh, they're only going

9:58

to be there for one year.

10:00

It's like, they're just, they're just

10:02

there. And like, who? knows if

10:04

they're going to still be alive

10:06

by the time that some of

10:08

these people would be able to

10:10

get out, whether that's through the

10:12

miraculous Donald Trump impeachment of 2026,

10:14

which will never happen, or however,

10:16

like these people are, they are

10:18

just stuck there because he's not

10:20

going to release them into his

10:22

country. We are seemingly unable to

10:24

take anyone back from there. I

10:26

mean unwilling, right, like the US

10:28

is theoretically able. It's argued that

10:30

we're unable as people get into

10:32

more after this ad break. We

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also talked to some of the

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hottest country stars of today, and

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right now, and don't forget you

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can listen to us online on

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the IHAR radio app. Okay. We

10:56

are back. One thing that we've

10:58

seen across the Trump administration, the

11:00

past 80 days or so. Something

11:03

that we saw very evident in

11:05

this meeting is that whenever a

11:07

single person is asked a question

11:09

about the outrageous, possibly illegal, possibly

11:11

not but just immoral or evil

11:13

things that are being done, the

11:15

first instinct is always to pass

11:17

the buck onto someone else. We

11:19

saw this a lot with signal

11:21

gate, how it was always someone

11:23

else's faults. No single person could

11:25

get like hammered down of being

11:27

like, okay, you are the person

11:29

that's going to be accountable for

11:31

this. And throughout this oval office

11:33

meeting, eventually they started taking questions

11:35

from from journalists and reporters and

11:37

propagandists who are in the room.

11:39

And you saw this trend of,

11:41

you know, if someone asks Trump

11:43

about what's going on, he passes

11:45

the buck to Stephen Miller, who

11:47

passes the buck to Bukhale, who

11:49

then passes the buck to Mark

11:51

Rubio. And it's like this big

11:53

circle. of like everyone's just talking

11:55

around each other because no one

11:57

really has the authority to to

11:59

speak on what's going on or

12:01

how to fix this problem because

12:03

they don't see it as a

12:05

problem. So instead they just talk

12:07

in a circle and I think

12:10

Miller was one of the most

12:12

effective at this and unfortunately we're

12:14

gonna play the longest clip in

12:16

this episode just just under two

12:18

minutes from Stephen Miller where he

12:20

lays out the Trump admin thought

12:22

process and strategy behind what they

12:24

are doing. And I apologize for

12:26

this but it is. useful to

12:28

hear from Himmler too. So here

12:30

we go. With respect to you,

12:32

he's a citizen of El Salvador.

12:34

So it's very arrogant even for

12:36

American media to suggest that we

12:38

would even tell El Salvador how

12:40

to handle their own citizens as

12:42

a starting point. As two immigration

12:44

courts found that he was a

12:46

member of MS-13. When President Trump

12:48

declared MS-13 to be a foreign

12:50

terrorist organization. That meant that he

12:52

was no longer eligible under federal

12:54

law, which I'm sure you know

12:56

you're very familiar with the INA,

12:58

that he was no longer eligible

13:00

for any form of immigration relief

13:02

in the United States. So we

13:04

had a deportation order that was

13:06

valid, which meant that under our

13:08

law he's not even allowed to

13:10

be present in the United States

13:12

and had to be returned because

13:14

of the foreign terrorist designation. This

13:17

issue was then by a district

13:19

court judge. completely inverted and a

13:21

district court judge tried to tell

13:23

the administration that they had to

13:25

kidnap a citizen of El Salvador

13:27

and flying back here. That issue

13:29

was raised to the Supreme Court

13:31

and the Supreme Court said the

13:33

district court order was unlawful and

13:35

its main components were reversed 90

13:37

unanimously stating clearly that neither Secretary

13:39

of State, nor the President could

13:41

be compelled by anybody to forcibly

13:43

retrieve a citizen of El Salvador

13:45

from El Salvador, who again is

13:47

a member of MS-13, which is

13:49

I'm sure you understand, rapes little

13:51

girls, murders women, murders children, is

13:53

engaged in the most barbaric activities.

13:55

the world and I can promise

13:57

you if he was your neighbor

13:59

you wouldn't move right away. So

14:01

you don't plan to ask for

14:03

him? And what was the ruling

14:05

in the Supreme Court save? Was

14:07

it nine to nothing? Yes, it

14:09

was a nine zero in our

14:11

favor. In our favor, against the

14:13

district court rule, saying that no

14:15

district court has the power to

14:17

compel a foreign policy function of

14:19

the United States. As Pam said,

14:21

the ruling solely stated that if

14:24

this individual at El Salvador sole

14:26

discretion was set back to our

14:28

country. that we could deport him

14:30

a second time. No version of this

14:32

legally ends up with an ever-living here

14:34

because he is a citizen of

14:36

El Salvador. That is the president

14:38

of El Salvador. Your question is

14:41

about for the court can only

14:43

be directed to him. So there's a

14:45

lot there. I think I'm going to

14:47

start with, I can promise you if he

14:49

was your neighbor, you would move right away.

14:51

And I think that is really the

14:53

heart of what this Trump administration

14:56

is. is doing, like it's appealing

14:58

to this most basic like suburban

15:00

crime panic fear racism

15:02

of, well if he was your neighbor

15:04

you wouldn't want him living next

15:06

to you. Yeah, like if that

15:09

goes the neighborhood kind of. Well,

15:11

just completely lying about like the the

15:13

context of this case yeah with you

15:15

know Miller saying it's arrogant suggests that

15:17

we the most powerful country in the

15:19

world or it used to be before

15:22

the tariffs can tell El Salvador how

15:24

to handle its citizens Falsely claiming that

15:26

immigration courts deemed a member of MS-13

15:28

which just just is not true Yeah

15:30

talking about kidnapping him from secot to

15:33

return him to the United States as

15:35

if Iceland just kidnapped hundreds of people

15:37

with no criminal records and send them

15:39

to a foreign gulog And then also

15:41

lied about the Supreme Court ruling,

15:43

saying they found the district court

15:46

order to return Garcia unlawful and

15:48

grossly mischaracterizing the scope of what

15:50

the Supreme Court ruling was and how

15:52

it was sent back to the district

15:54

court to work with the details on

15:56

what facilitate the return actually

15:59

means. And again. And I think like

16:01

the one of the most telling parts

16:03

is how he ends by saying, quote,

16:05

no version of this ever ends up

16:07

with him living here. And yeah, like

16:10

they're gonna look for any way to

16:12

like make this test case to work,

16:14

right? And if they can do this

16:16

to someone with protected legal status, who

16:18

is not a terrorist, who is not

16:21

an actual MS-13 gang member, right? This

16:23

is kind of ideal for them, because

16:25

that means they can pay anybody as

16:27

a foreign policy threat enough. to be

16:29

sent to a foreign gulag. Then at

16:32

the very end of the clip, he

16:34

passes the buck off to Bukalai to

16:36

have him answer this question, again, perfectly

16:38

laying out their strategy. There's a lot

16:40

to break down in what military. It's

16:43

also just kind of interesting, Campbell, is

16:45

like amongst the press. He's not one

16:47

of the people like sat on the

16:49

couches supposed to be giving the press

16:51

conference, right? He just kind of wades

16:54

into... I guess, like, like, offer this

16:56

opinion and kind of, like, be the

16:58

kind of embassy of this, of their

17:00

response, I guess, in a sense. Yeah.

17:02

I think, crucially, like, Abrigo Garcia's protection

17:05

was from being returned to El Salvador,

17:07

right, because he had been harassed by

17:09

gang members when leaving El Salvador and

17:11

when living in El Salvador. He's lived

17:13

in the States since 2011, and he's

17:16

lived in the States since 2011. from

17:18

gang members. Yeah, the gangs that he's

17:20

been accused of being a part of,

17:22

but like it then follows that like

17:24

it would be legal for them to

17:27

deport him to a third country, right?

17:29

And that is the path that they've

17:31

followed with all the Venezuelan migrants, right?

17:33

They've accused him of being members of

17:35

trenderagua. I have not seen a compelling

17:38

case made that any of them are

17:40

yet. I'm sure people from Trinidad Agua

17:42

have come to this country, but they

17:44

have not provided any evidence that the

17:46

people they have sent to say, God,

17:49

are those people? No, like we've had

17:51

like 14 people are like accused of

17:53

some kind of like violent crime, like

17:55

murder or rape. And in the other

17:57

like 275, do not have a criminal

18:00

record whatsoever. Yeah, and the bulk of

18:02

this is relying on and some kind

18:04

of idea that they have entirely created

18:06

from fiction that they're a tattooing practices

18:08

when one enters Trinidad. And for them,

18:11

right, even if they can't be returned

18:13

to Venezuela, they feel like they have

18:15

this endram, which is okay, we'll send

18:17

them to El Salvador. But for the

18:20

Salvadorians, that's a different question, right? And

18:22

that is what they're trying to find

18:24

here. And that is worrying because the

18:26

case here that is getting the most

18:28

publicity court has taken up. It's about

18:31

the Salvadorian man. And I hope that

18:33

doesn't mean that the ship has sailed

18:35

for the Venezuelans, right? That essentially, like,

18:37

they don't have a case. Because that

18:39

was the vast bulk of them. I

18:42

think there was nothing like 60 salvage-arranged

18:44

citizens and the rest of Venezuelans. No,

18:46

hundreds of people have been like forgotten

18:48

in this. After Miller's rant there, Mark

18:50

Rubio jumped in to state that, quote,

18:53

no court in the United States has

18:55

the right to conduct the foreign policy

18:57

of the United States, unquote. And Stephen

18:59

Miller hopped back in to talk about

19:01

this Supreme Court case that they're falsely

19:04

saying they won nine to zero, which

19:06

is not how that case went. And

19:08

they start talking more broadly about what

19:10

can be allowed if it has to

19:12

do with the foreign policy of the

19:15

United States and how the courts don't

19:17

have the ability to intervene in that

19:19

process. No, the foreign policy of the

19:21

United States is conducted by the President

19:23

of the United States, not by a

19:26

court. And no court in the United

19:28

States has a right to conduct the

19:30

foreign policy of the United States. It's

19:32

that simple. And the story. And that's

19:34

what the Supreme Court held, by the

19:37

way. Markle's point. The Supreme Court said

19:39

exactly what Mark was at. The no

19:41

court has the authority to compel the

19:43

foreign policy function United States. We want

19:45

a case 9-0, and people like CNN

19:48

are portraying it as a loss, as

19:50

usual, because they want foreign terrorists in

19:52

the country who kidnap women and children.

19:54

Part of what I find so disturbing

19:56

about this idea of, of, you know,

19:59

no habeas corpus, no due process. if

20:01

you aren't on foreign soil, is that

20:03

like this idea of the courts having

20:05

no no jurisdiction. foreign policy decisions means

20:07

that as long as you, whether you're

20:10

a citizen, whether you're a permanent resident,

20:12

document, or undocumented immigrant, as long as

20:14

you are forcefully removed from the United

20:16

States soil, your rights and your due

20:18

process has been forfeit and the US

20:21

has neither the obligation nor sometimes the

20:23

ability to return you to US soil

20:25

if that is their foreign policy interest.

20:27

And this is such a troubling broad

20:29

concept that the portions of the courts

20:32

are kind of... allowing them to claim

20:34

right now and the complete removal of

20:36

due process is like slowly getting encroached

20:38

upon at first with undocumented immigrants and

20:40

green card holders. But as we will

20:43

see in the next section, they are

20:45

also absolutely going to be targeting US

20:47

citizens. Yeah, I think like we should

20:49

just point out, obviously the court is

20:52

not conducting the foreign policy of the

20:54

United States. It's ruling on the legality

20:56

of the action taken by the president,

20:58

which is exactly what it's supposed to

21:00

do. Yeah, and as it relates to

21:03

your rights for due process, if you

21:05

are in the United States. Yeah, yeah,

21:07

like every single U.S. person, right, U.S.

21:09

person would be anybody who resides in

21:11

the U.S. be they documented or done

21:14

documented migrant citizen, what have you, like

21:16

has a stake in this. We're going

21:18

to go on break and then come

21:20

back to discuss the expansion of the

21:22

CCOT detention program and the possible targeting

21:25

of U.S. Okay,

21:35

we're back. So on April 7th,

21:37

a few weeks ago, while on

21:39

Air Force One, President Trump told

21:42

reporters that he would be, quote

21:44

unquote, honored for the president of

21:46

El Salvador to take US citizens,

21:48

quote unquote, American grown and born

21:50

criminals, and put them in secot,

21:52

the terrorism confinement center prison black

21:54

site, saying, quote, why should it

21:56

stop just at people that cross

21:58

the border elite? A few days

22:00

later, the White House Press Secretary

22:03

reiterated that this is something that

22:05

Trump is discussing both publicly and

22:07

privately. And later, during the April

22:09

14th Oval Office meeting, Trump said

22:11

that if Salvador was to build

22:13

more of these torture mega prisons,

22:15

the United States would quote unquote

22:17

help them out if the Trump

22:19

administration could disappear more American immigrants

22:21

and U.S. citizens. to these prison

22:24

black sites. We always have to

22:26

obey the laws, but we also

22:28

have to be built. I do

22:30

something we'd help them. We have

22:32

them. They're great facilities, very strong

22:34

facilities, and they don't play games.

22:36

I'd like to go a step

22:38

further. I mean, I said it

22:40

to Pam. I don't know what

22:43

the laws are. We always have

22:45

to obey the laws, but we

22:47

also have homegrown criminals that push

22:49

people into subways that. hit elderly

22:51

ladies on the back of the

22:53

head with a baseball bat when

22:55

they're not looking that are absolute

22:57

monsters. I'd like to include them

22:59

in the group of people to

23:01

get them out of the country,

23:04

but you'll have to be looking

23:06

at the laws on that, Steve,

23:08

okay? So this is just the

23:10

start of a long process that

23:12

is going to be deeply troublesome

23:14

and worrying. And again, like, this

23:16

is something that... They keep talking

23:18

about, and I think they're still

23:20

looking for some kind of legal

23:22

justification or they're looking for something

23:25

that maybe, if not allows for

23:27

this, explicitly prohibits this in a

23:29

way that they can't get around.

23:31

Yeah, did you notice he called

23:33

out Miller? He said you'll have

23:35

to look at the laws on

23:37

that Steve. Obviously, Miller is not

23:39

the attorney general. He also did

23:41

mention attorney general Pambondi. Pambondi. Yeah.

23:44

Who's also looking into this option

23:46

right now. Right, but Miller is

23:48

often credited with being the kind

23:50

of mastermind between behind Title 42,

23:52

right, which was an extremely obscure

23:54

piece of public health law that

23:56

was immobilized by the first Trump

23:58

administration to immediately return migrants to

24:00

Mexico. without giving them their right

24:02

to an asylum hearing, right? And

24:05

like, that's what I'm wondering if

24:07

they're going for again. Like, like,

24:09

Steve Miller has been very good

24:11

at this, at finding obscure justifications

24:13

in United States federal law for

24:15

shit that they want to do.

24:17

I think this is why they're

24:19

definitely trying to stretch this foreign

24:21

policy claim as far as they

24:23

can, that if it's outside US

24:26

soil, there's a limited way US

24:28

courts can actually interfere or undo

24:30

things that have already been done.

24:32

And again, like the idea that

24:34

we're going to like fund the

24:36

construction of even more of these

24:38

El Salvador mega prisons, just to

24:40

house American grown and born criminals

24:42

as well as immigrants, like you,

24:45

we're, we're just funding like goog

24:47

camps on foreign soil to send

24:49

the undesirables to, and no matter

24:51

how much Trump talks about how

24:53

we're only going to send quote

24:55

unquote like American criminals there, as

24:57

we've seen with with CCOT so

24:59

far, like no, like. They, the

25:01

majority of people they are sending

25:03

do not have criminal histories. I

25:06

don't think anyone can trust the

25:08

Trump administration's definition of what is

25:10

and isn't criminal to this extent

25:12

anymore. Later in this same meeting,

25:14

Trump reiterated the same idea about

25:16

sending you a citizens who his

25:18

administration deems criminals to this foreign

25:20

black side. Here's another clip. I

25:22

think just a follow question on

25:24

a clarification. You mentioned that you're

25:27

open to deporting individuals that aren't

25:29

foreign aliens, but are criminals to

25:31

El Salvador. Does that include potentially

25:33

US citizens, fully naturalizing? If they're

25:35

criminals and if they hit people

25:37

with baseball backs over their head,

25:39

that happen to be 90 years

25:41

old. And if they rape 87-year-old

25:43

women in Coney Island, Brooklyn. Yeah,

25:45

yeah, that includes them. What do

25:48

you think there's special category of

25:50

person? They're as bad as anybody

25:52

that comes in. We have bad

25:54

ones too. And I'm all for

25:56

it. We have others that we're

25:58

negotiating with. to but no if

26:00

it's if it's up if it's

26:02

a home-grown criminal I have no

26:04

problem he's really obsessed with the

26:07

baseball bats thing I don't quite know

26:09

what that's about it seems like a

26:11

specific case that he's referring to maybe

26:13

it's something he remembers like 30

26:15

years ago that get really got

26:17

stuck in his head right but also

26:20

later he says that they're negotiating

26:22

with other countries to send

26:24

US citizens to not just

26:26

El Salvador yeah I mean they've

26:28

sent migrants, third country migrants

26:30

to Panama before, right, and

26:32

detained them there. Honduras, I

26:35

believe, is building like a

26:37

prison that's not dissimilar to

26:39

secote, like, I'd be guessing this

26:41

will be their sort of way

26:43

of courting allies in the hemisphere,

26:45

like, they'll sort of pay them a

26:47

relatively large amount in order to

26:49

attempt to offshore people they don't

26:52

like. Yeah, and again, like, as

26:54

we've seen the past few years,

26:56

and increasingly so now... The effort to

26:58

label activists or people who are

27:00

vocally opposed to the United States'

27:03

foreign policy, the United States

27:05

and the state of Israel,

27:07

deeming them terrorists, and then by

27:09

extension, if you charge them with a

27:11

crime, then criminals, the idea that

27:13

they can be housed in a place like

27:15

CCOT now, with very limited to no

27:18

due process, the whole due process

27:20

question is still very up in the

27:22

air for how they're going to handle

27:24

that aspect. But you can't just take

27:27

this as like, oh, you know, that's

27:29

just Trump talking. Like, no, this is

27:31

something they really want to do. And it's,

27:33

like, one of the freakiest things

27:35

that I've seen in, like, domestic US

27:38

politics in a long time. Earlier,

27:40

Trump was recorded half a

27:42

whispering to Bekelle, telling him

27:44

that El Salvador needs to

27:47

build five more secot-style torture

27:49

prisons to house US citizens,

27:51

as Trump says, homegrown criminals.

27:53

Bekelle replies that they... We'll

27:55

have enough room, and then

27:57

the entire Oval Office laughs.

28:00

It's the bleakest clip I've ever seen.

28:02

It's the bleakest clip I've ever seen

28:04

before. Yeah. That's great. All right. It's

28:07

not big enough. It's the bleakest clip

28:09

I've ever seen before. Yeah. Talking about

28:11

home groans are next. Got to build

28:14

five more places. Oh, we have enough

28:16

space. Everyone laughs. And then Trump shows

28:18

off the new gold frames for the

28:21

portraits for the portraits in the Oval

28:23

Office. Yeah. It's like a dinner party

28:25

joke for them. It might just be

28:28

worth noting that like every totalitarian regime

28:30

has housed its dissidents outside of the

28:32

Imperial Corps, right? Like Germany did this

28:35

in the East, right? Russia sent people

28:37

to Siberia for a Russia, so Soviet

28:39

Union. Creating these like stateless zones where

28:41

like the regular laws of your like

28:44

fatherland state do not apply. Right, and

28:46

where the horrors are so far from

28:48

the populace that the populace can't really

28:51

grasp them. Yeah, no, this is like

28:53

elementary school stuff. It says like like

28:55

the first thing you learn about is

28:58

concentration camps and goologues and how that's

29:00

like this symbol of evil. And now

29:02

it's something you laugh about in the

29:05

Oval Office to send home groans to

29:07

five disappearing torture camps. Yeah, and like

29:09

just to be like even clear, I

29:12

guess what what distinguishes a concentration camp

29:14

from a prison is that there is

29:16

no due process right people are sent

29:19

there because of who they are not

29:21

because of what they did like if

29:23

you're a Venezuelan man who may or

29:26

may not have a tattoo yeah like

29:28

the way I don't know what it

29:30

will take for some people to realize

29:33

what's happening here and like the president

29:35

of El Salvador is so on board

29:37

for this yeah I mean he doesn't

29:40

hide from that reputation right he embraces

29:42

it his Twitter for a while had

29:44

world's coolest dictator in the bio I

29:46

don't know if it still does like

29:49

like both him and Trump have an

29:51

openly align themselves with quote-unquote nationalism and

29:53

nationalist. They're openly saying this. Trump said

29:56

dictator on day one. That wasn't just

29:58

a rhetorical device. That was literal. This

30:00

is what he's doing. The else have

30:03

it our president told Trump You have

30:05

350 million people to liberate but to

30:07

liberate 350 million people you have to

30:10

imprison some and He followed that up

30:12

by saying that he is eager to

30:14

help with that In

30:17

fact, Mr. President, you have 350 million

30:19

people to liberate. But to liberate 350

30:21

million people, you have to imprison some.

30:23

You know, that's the way it works,

30:26

right? You cannot just, you know, free

30:28

the criminals and think crimes are going

30:30

to go down magically. You have to

30:33

imprison them so you can liberate 350

30:35

million Americans that are asking for the

30:37

end of crime and the end of

30:40

terrorists. Many can be done. I mean,

30:42

you're doing it already. So I'm really

30:44

happy to be here honor and eager

30:46

to help. This whole like liberation through

30:49

imprisonment thing is elementary school stuff here.

30:51

You don't have to have a PhD

30:53

in the history of the 1930s to

30:56

have someone tell you that like liberation

30:58

of the chosen nation by purging of

31:00

the undesirables is fascist shit, but like

31:03

I'm here with one to tell you

31:05

if that's what you need, you know?

31:07

Like this is textbook stuff like Garrison

31:09

saying, like this is not debatable, like.

31:12

I know we spent the last four

31:14

years debating is Trump a fascist or

31:16

not. I don't think that matters hugely,

31:19

right? This is a fascist thing. It's

31:21

so much more disturbing that now, according

31:23

to like polls, like half, around half

31:26

the population, maybe a little bit less,

31:28

just agree with the current way that

31:30

deportations are happening and Trump's immigration policy,

31:33

like on a completely like flat basis.

31:35

And if you spend any time on

31:37

on X, the everything app, watching videos

31:39

of the all these press conferences, it's

31:42

like. cheering this on completely like completely

31:44

blankly I think that's a very skewed

31:46

sample of people totally paid for Elon

31:49

Musk's of course of course but like

31:51

the number of people yeah it's real

31:53

humans say like these are real people

31:56

who just just completely completely blankly think

31:58

this is a this is this is

32:00

a net good and like this is

32:02

this people are unreachable you cannot come

32:05

back from that like you is there

32:07

is no coming back from that if

32:09

you believe that the way depretations are

32:12

currently happening is fair just and right

32:14

like I cannot understand you as a

32:16

human anymore that is so like divorced

32:19

and like alien yeah you've gone past

32:21

the point of no return right like

32:23

liberals who like shield their eyes from

32:25

like the horrors at the border like

32:28

I don't agree with that but in

32:30

some ways I can like understand it

32:32

The open, like, cheering on of this

32:35

is, like, a whole, it's a whole

32:37

other level. Yeah, it's not like I

32:39

can't bear to see it, I'm going

32:42

to ignore it, because it'll cause me

32:44

to confront the, the contradictions. It's, I'm

32:46

seeing it, I'm watching it, I'm watching

32:48

it, and I think it's fucking great.

32:51

The last thing I'm going to, I'm

32:53

going to, I'm going to play here,

32:55

a CNN reporter, and complained about how

32:58

she wasn't praising him for deportinging criminals.

33:00

Mr. President, you said that if the

33:02

Supreme Court said someone needed to be

33:05

returned, that you would abide by that.

33:07

You said that on Air Force One

33:09

just a few days ago. And they

33:11

said that it must be facilitated. Why

33:14

don't you just say, isn't it wonderful

33:16

that we're keeping criminals out of our

33:18

country? Why can't you just say that?

33:21

Why do you go over and over?

33:23

And that's why nobody watches you anymore.

33:25

You know, you have no credibility. Please

33:28

go ahead. Very textbook authoritarian like blanket

33:30

stuff like there's nothing to like commentate

33:32

about that It just is what it

33:34

is I guess we do have some

33:37

breaking news because we're recording this on

33:39

Tuesday James wanted to in possibly five

33:41

minutes or less Fill us in about

33:44

the the update from the district court

33:46

on Garcia's case since it was sent

33:48

back to the district court from the

33:51

Supreme Court last week regarding his possible

33:53

facilitated return to the United States Right,

33:55

so much of this has hinged over

33:57

what facilitate means, right? Like they found

34:00

a legal concept that they can argue

34:02

at North Zealand. and in this case

34:04

it's the word facilitate. The DOJ didn't

34:07

present a new information today, but we

34:09

see that there's some hopeful things from

34:11

a district court judge and then it

34:14

kind of all goes up in flames.

34:16

But I think Genes is XI-N-I-S is

34:18

how the name is spelled. I believe

34:21

it's Genes. I said that every day

34:23

that he's there is a day of

34:25

further irreparable harm. And then she talks

34:27

about the process being at the roots

34:30

of the Constitution. She's ordered for like

34:32

two weeks more of discovery, which is

34:34

going to mean that both sides have

34:37

more time to repair their cases. She

34:39

wants people to testify in front of

34:41

the court. So the administration has argued

34:44

that facilitating his return would consist of

34:46

them allowing him to enter the United

34:48

States if Bouquetle released him and possibly

34:50

providing a flight for that to happen,

34:53

but not crucially ensuring his release from

34:55

Secord. and so anything else subsequent to

34:57

that doesn't matter. Chinese said that like

35:00

their interpretation of the word flies in

35:02

the face of the plain meaning of

35:04

the word quote when a wrongfully removed

35:07

individual is and then I'm adding to

35:09

the quote here I guess or context

35:11

she means when a wrongfully removed individual

35:13

is taken outside the US it's not

35:16

so cut and dried that all you

35:18

have to do is remove obstacles domestically.

35:20

She also said, quote, to the Department

35:23

of Justice here, you made your jurisdictional

35:25

arguments, you made your venue arguments, you

35:27

made your arguments on the merits, you

35:30

lost. This is now about the scope

35:32

of the remedy, right? This is the

35:34

case that Miller is claiming they won.

35:36

That's pretty unequivocal for her justice. However,

35:39

she does not seem to think that

35:41

it is within her power to request

35:43

his return from El Salvador. So she's

35:46

calling for things to move quickly, right?

35:48

They want to conduct their positions by

35:50

23rd of April. She said, quote, council

35:53

vacations, council other appointments. I'm usually pretty

35:55

good about it, not this time. I'm

35:57

going to be available if you need

35:59

to do it odd hours or weekends.

36:02

That's what I'm talking about. Like anything

36:04

short of a judge saying you have

36:06

to go to secote, remove him from

36:09

the cell, put him on the plane

36:11

and bring him back to America is

36:13

going to be interpreted by the Trump

36:16

administration to mean that they don't have

36:18

to do that? Yeah, they're going to

36:20

weasel their way around it the same

36:22

way you heard Stephen Miller weasel his

36:25

way around every question and... with truth

36:27

being used as a flexible medium to

36:29

shape a sculpture of their choosing. And

36:32

like, they've done that right, the word

36:34

facilitate, I think most people who are

36:36

first language English speakers have a fairly

36:39

good grasp of what that means, and

36:41

it doesn't mean like remove barriers domestically.

36:43

That's what they've gone for. The only

36:46

way that he is getting out, it's

36:48

a majority Supreme Court decision that is

36:50

extremely explicit that directs... the Trump administration

36:52

to go to El Salvador and remove

36:55

him from that prison. I haven't seen

36:57

anything to indicate that we're getting that

36:59

any time soon. And as the judge

37:02

said, right, every day he's there, a

37:04

reparable harm is done to him. And

37:06

that's where we're at right now, right?

37:09

With people arguing over the definition of

37:11

a word, as hundreds of people are

37:13

locked up having done nothing wrong in

37:15

a giant torture prison. And this is

37:18

not the only person who... We believe

37:20

it was quote unquote mistakenly sent. Others

37:22

reporting today coming out of documented New

37:25

York. Yeah, good outlet by the way.

37:27

A father of a 19 year old

37:29

legal immigrant from Brooklyn. This 19 year

37:32

old with no tattoos was kidnapped off

37:34

the streets of New York. The quote

37:36

from his father reads quote, the officers

37:38

grabbed him and two other boys right

37:41

at the entrance to our building. One

37:43

said no. He's not the one like

37:45

they were looking for someone else. One

37:48

officer to be clear. Correct. Yeah. But

37:50

the other officer said, take him anyway,

37:52

unquote. And now this father, exactly a

37:55

month later, is still looking for his

37:57

missing son who is disappeared into a

37:59

now salvage. or torture prison? Yeah, Jesus.

38:01

Like I've said before on this show,

38:04

like one of the things that I learned

38:06

in the Darian Gap was how much people

38:08

can care about their kids. And like

38:10

this shit that I saw people do

38:12

to ensure that kids have a better

38:14

life, like broke my heart in a way that

38:17

war hasn't, that like anything else

38:19

I've seen in my life hasn't.

38:21

And it's like, honestly, really hard

38:23

for me to hear stuff like that

38:25

and like not react, just being

38:27

really sad or really sad or really

38:29

angry. It's fucking brutal. Things

38:31

are looking a lot more grim in

38:33

my mind than they were when we

38:36

recorded that, should you leave the United

38:38

States episode? I still think the things

38:40

I said there, I stand by, and

38:42

I stand by the only recommendation

38:45

I have is to create options

38:47

for yourself, and I think those

38:49

options should be created as soon

38:51

as possible, especially if your citizenship

38:54

is a topic of debate according

38:56

to the United States government.

38:59

But even that will not keep

39:01

you safe as we've talked about

39:03

today. Your options include creating networks

39:05

to take care of one another,

39:08

right? Like the things that will probably

39:10

affect more of you than direct

39:12

state violence are economic downturns, recessions,

39:15

right? Things like this, like those

39:17

are things that you can take

39:19

care of one another through. And

39:21

like, you should plan to do that too.

39:24

You should, you should think about. how you're

39:26

going to pay your bills, how you're going

39:28

to feed each other, how you're going to

39:30

take care of your medical needs. Because

39:32

I don't think that the world is

39:35

going to want to keep doing business

39:37

with a country that acts like this,

39:39

and both economically and in terms

39:41

of its conduct towards migrants.

39:43

So like your plans don't have to

39:45

be to leave, like your plans should also

39:47

include what to do if things get really

39:50

bad, like in an economic sense. I'm not

39:52

going to tell you what that that means,

39:54

but It's all the stuff we've already

39:56

talked about, right? It's mutual aid.

39:59

It's all the base. preparedness stuff

40:01

that is not as big and scary

40:04

as leaving the country, but

40:06

is nonetheless vital. We

40:08

will continue to report on

40:10

the Garcia case, other court

40:13

cases regarding these 300 people,

40:15

rendition to El Salvador, and

40:17

CCOT in the next few weeks.

40:20

Yeah. Just to finish up, as

40:22

things continue to get worse,

40:24

people keep reaching out to us,

40:26

which we appreciate if you would

40:28

like to... You can email us

40:30

Cool Zone tips at proton.me. We

40:32

will read it. We might not

40:34

get back to you. Your email

40:36

is not end-to-end encrypted unless the

40:38

email that you're sending from is

40:40

also encrypted. But you can reach

40:42

out to us there. See you

40:44

on the other side. It could

40:46

happen here is a production of

40:48

Cool Zone Media. For more podcast

40:50

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40:54

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40:58

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