0:00

Gold keeps going higher and higher.

0:02

What does this tell us about

0:04

gold? And more importantly, what does

0:06

it tell us about what's going

0:09

on with the dollar? Here to

0:11

talk about this and more is

0:13

Lawrence Leopard. He's a managing partner

0:15

over at EMA, but he's also

0:18

now a best-selling author. He is

0:20

out with his first book, The

0:22

Big Print. What happens to

0:24

America and how sound money

0:26

will fix it? I read it, it's

0:29

fantastic, it's on my coffee

0:31

table in New York City now, and

0:33

what a title, Larry. Sound money.

0:35

Yeah, nice to be with you again,

0:37

yeah, sound money, we need it. And

0:39

gold is the, gold is the alarm

0:41

bell, you know, or the canary,

0:44

right? I mean, it's just relentless

0:46

how it's trading up,

0:48

and it obviously is

0:50

signaling the serious monetary

0:52

dysfunction that the world is

0:54

experiencing. Ironically, a book talked

0:57

a lot about that. Fortunately, I got

0:59

the book out in time because I

1:01

think it's coming pretty soon, this big

1:03

print. I was going to say perfect

1:05

timing for the book. I was sad

1:07

to hear that this is a one-shot

1:09

deal for you because you're a great

1:12

writer. It's a fantastic book, easy read.

1:14

But I think I like how you said

1:16

you wrote this because, you know, if you're

1:18

in Bitcoin, you read the book, you get

1:20

it. But for folks. Not in, you

1:23

know, in these camps, they're not even

1:25

familiar with the notion of what is

1:27

sound money. And it really serves

1:29

as an educational tool, Larry. Thank

1:32

you. Yeah, that's, I'm glad you said,

1:34

that's really was a goal. I

1:36

want average people to understand why

1:38

they've been taking advantage of with

1:41

fiat money. And we all get it.

1:43

And I tested it with a lot of average

1:45

people. And I mean, I give you an

1:47

example. First person I gave it to came

1:49

back and said, what's the Federal Reserve? I

1:52

said, okay, I got to explain this, right?

1:54

And so I tried to write it so

1:56

you could hand it to any citizen, they could

1:58

read it, and they would go, oh my. goodness,

2:00

I now see why inflation is eating

2:02

us alive and I see what's broken.

2:04

And by the way, I think I know how

2:07

to fix it, which is gold and Bitcoin.

2:09

So, Larry, let's talk about the

2:11

underpinnings of this gold move, though,

2:13

because even some gold bugs are

2:15

nervous, you know, looking at this

2:18

run-up. I mean, is it sustainable?

2:20

It's a great question. I don't

2:22

know the answer. You know, certainly

2:24

when a market goes parabolic like

2:26

this, often, it will. and

2:28

correct significantly, but we

2:30

just don't know. I mean, you know, if

2:32

it is a case of people truly losing

2:34

faith in fiat currencies, it could

2:36

be very sustainable. It could go

2:38

much higher. You know, using a

2:40

lot of the traditional metrics, gold

2:43

is still quite undervalued

2:45

compared to all the money we

2:47

printed. But one just doesn't really know

2:49

what the path is. I think, you know,

2:51

would it surprise me at all to have

2:54

gold correct back down into the high 20,

2:56

you know, 28, 29, no, not at all?

2:58

But I don't think we're going back to

3:00

the 2070 that we broke out of last

3:02

March. I mean, the fact of the matter is

3:04

we are now in a gold bull market

3:06

very clearly. And I think over

3:08

the course of many years, it's going to

3:11

be much higher pricing because it still has

3:13

quite a ways to go to catch up

3:15

with all the money we printed. Let's talk

3:17

about the pressure on the dollar.

3:20

Does President Trump want a lower

3:22

dollar and why? Yeah, I think he does very

3:24

badly. I think Bessent does too and Bessent

3:26

is even they've even said kind of in

3:28

code that they want to remain the reserve

3:31

currency, but they want the dollar price lower

3:33

and really you have to get the dollar

3:35

price lower if you want to you know

3:37

balance trade and so I think that is

3:39

part of their policy objective what is

3:42

being called maybe a Maralago accord which would

3:44

be to push the dollar lower course. China

3:46

wants to keep their currency weak as well

3:48

so they can continue to export to us.

3:50

So we've got a little bit of a

3:52

currency in trade. Not a little bit. We've

3:54

got a big currency in trade war going on.

3:56

There was a guy on Twitter who had a

3:58

really great comment. He said you know, China

4:00

and America are getting divorced and

4:02

trade are the kids. It's really,

4:04

it's kind of a mess. That

4:06

brings up a solid point, O

4:08

Larry. You can have a lower dollar

4:11

but still remain the reserve currency? I

4:13

think you can to a degree. I

4:15

mean, the reserve currency is a function

4:17

of who's transacting and what. I

4:19

mean, first of all, we are

4:21

slipping in terms of reserve currency status.

4:24

We used to be 95 percent of

4:26

all oil trades. Now we're 65 percent.

4:28

and countries are trading in their own

4:30

currencies. But let's face it, the dollar

4:33

still is the most liquid widely used

4:35

currency for most trades. So, and that's

4:37

not going to disappear overnight. But we

4:39

could have it be weaker against all the

4:41

other currencies. I mean, to me, you know,

4:44

it's Brent is a friend of mine, and

4:46

I really respect him in his dollar milkshake

4:48

theory. But, you know, these are all fiat

4:50

currency pieces of paper. And so where the

4:53

dollar is against the other ones, I mean

4:55

that's going to move around all the time.

4:57

The crosses that matter to me are the

4:59

dollar against gold, the dollar against silver, the

5:02

dollar against Bitcoin, because those are the things

5:04

that can't be printed. And it's funny

5:06

the way all these countries take turns

5:08

printing. Like right now, China's printing

5:10

like crazy, we're not. But I think

5:13

that'll change. You think we will ramp

5:15

up those printing presses. I absolutely do.

5:17

And that's really the thesis of the

5:19

book. You know, the book's title, as

5:21

you know, is the big print. And really

5:23

we've had two big prints already. And I

5:25

think another one's coming, and as the book

5:28

lays out, this is just because of what

5:30

I call Stein's law, that if something can't

5:32

go on forever, it will end. We cannot

5:34

grow debt faster than GDP forever

5:36

without there eventually being either collapse

5:39

of the system or demand for massive

5:41

growth in the money supply, which really

5:43

is inflation. And the Federal Reserve's third

5:45

mandate, the unwritten one, is

5:47

financial stability. And when financial

5:50

stability gets threatened, they run to the printer,

5:52

and they will this time as well. And

5:54

it's interesting, they kind of in a way

5:56

that the administration kind of ran to the

5:58

printer or financial studio. got threatened and

6:00

they changed. I mean, remember on, you

6:02

know, the big dip on April 7th,

6:05

when the stock market got absolutely crushed,

6:07

you know, the bond went from, went

6:09

up 80, the 10-year bond, which is

6:11

the basis of the financial system, you

6:13

know, the core layer of the financial

6:15

system, went up, you know, 70 basis

6:17

points very, very quickly to the mid-4s.

6:19

And, you know, I think Bessent went

6:21

to Trump and said, hey, you know,

6:23

you know, you kind of reverse these

6:25

tariffs, these tariffs, you know, hold on

6:27

these tariffs or else we're going to

6:30

lose the bond market. So it's, you know,

6:32

you can see the threats are growing to

6:34

the bond market to the stock market and

6:36

then by, you know, by extension to the

6:38

currencies, right? The dollar is through 100. It

6:41

was dollar start of the year at 109.

6:43

It's not 11% in a quarter. That's a

6:45

big move. So. Well, you're bringing up an

6:48

important point that there are rumblings that the

6:50

Fed already has a bailout prepared To

6:52

the tune of you know the two

6:54

trillion. I mean any insights there is the

6:56

bailout ready to go? Yeah, I think so.

6:58

And we don't know and we don't know

7:01

what they'll call it and they've got a

7:03

lot of sneaky ways of doing it You

7:05

know, they've been they talked about the Brooks

7:07

Brookings Institute had a paper where they said

7:10

they're going to maybe Issue swap lines to

7:12

the hedge funds that are involved in the

7:14

basis What it basically means is that the

7:16

hedge funds are buying Treasury notes, and we've

7:19

got to roll over $7 trillion of Treasury

7:21

notes this year. Hedge funds are buying them,

7:23

and the Fed is more or less saying,

7:25

look, if you get underwater in that trade,

7:28

we'll send money to you, which is a

7:30

printer. You know, they're talking about taking

7:32

away the supplementary leverage ratio for the

7:34

banks, which some people have called QE

7:36

infinity for the banks, and that's just

7:38

an accounting rule that would allow the

7:40

banks to buy bonds to buy bonds.

7:43

is we're just in so much debt

7:45

and we've got to roll all that debt

7:47

over and you know the buyers are getting

7:49

scarce and so you know we're starting

7:51

to look like an emerging economy I mean

7:53

you know when you have I mean

7:55

things are happening that should not happen

7:57

to the world reserve currency what are

8:00

the stock market's going down, the

8:02

bond market's going down, and our

8:04

currency's going down all at once.

8:06

And that hasn't happened in a

8:08

long, long time, if ever, in

8:10

recent memory. And the countries that

8:12

have that happening, they're generally emerging

8:14

market countries with currency problem, with

8:16

a debt problem and a currency

8:18

problem. And so it's now happening

8:20

to the world's reserve currency. And

8:22

everyone thought it couldn't because we

8:25

are the dollar milkshake and the

8:27

cleanest dirty shirt. But guess what?

8:29

currency, you know, policies, you get

8:31

third world policy, you know, currency

8:33

results, right? And that's what's happening.

8:35

Yeah, well, that's what terrifies me, Larry,

8:37

and it kind of has me screaming

8:39

saying, when are we really going to

8:41

take the debt? I know we take

8:43

the debt seriously, but I mean, the

8:45

powers that be, and maybe they do

8:48

and they don't want to show it.

8:50

But what are they going to do

8:52

about this debt problem? It's not

8:54

even a problem. Yeah, Daniel, it's the

8:56

elephant in the room. It amazed me we

8:58

had a presidential election last year never even

9:00

got discussed I mean, I don't think they're

9:02

going to deal with it until a crisis

9:04

occurs and that crisis is likely to be

9:06

a combination of Very very high inflation or

9:08

collapsing, you know stock and bond markets And

9:10

you know, I'm not sure how that'll unfold,

9:12

but you know as I said to you

9:14

before we started recording I'm very glad I

9:17

got the book out when I did because

9:19

it feels like it's coming right now I

9:21

mean things are really happening. These moves in

9:23

gold and you know the bonds and stocks,

9:25

these are not insignificant

9:27

moves. Two points. It does feel like

9:29

it's really happening. I feel we're having

9:31

a hard time labeling what it is,

9:33

but everyone I speak to it by

9:35

circle, Larry. Experts like you all, you

9:37

know, are using the word sub- sort

9:39

of reset. It feels like sub- sort

9:41

of reset is coming. Does it feel

9:44

like that to you? It really does. And

9:46

that's what needs to happen. And I

9:48

think it probably will happen, but typically

9:50

in the government, you have to have

9:52

a real crisis before a reset happens.

9:54

One positive thing. I mean, Secretary Bissent

9:57

last summer gave a speech where he

9:59

said he understood. stood the problems with

10:01

the world monetary system and he

10:03

felt like something akin to Breton Woods the

10:05

last big monetary conference was called for and

10:07

if it happened he wanted to have a

10:09

seat at the table so I think he's

10:12

very aware of the underlying issue and I

10:14

think he's prepared you know and thinking about how

10:16

to solve it and there's some who would

10:18

even argue that maybe they're thinking about a

10:21

reset to gold I mean I thought it

10:23

was interesting over the weekend that Trump tweeted

10:25

that he who has the gold makes the

10:27

rules. And then in turn, I've also noticed

10:29

a lot of gold flowing from overseas back

10:32

in the United States, which, you know, one

10:34

could argue maybe they're trying to refill Fort

10:36

Knox. I'm of the opinion that Fort Knox

10:38

was raided by Johnson to support the

10:41

London Goldpool in the 60s. I mean, if

10:43

there's gold in Fort Knox, don't get me

10:45

wrong. I'm just not sure all of it's

10:47

there that I think it was raided at

10:49

some point. So yeah, it's possible that Trump

10:52

and Bessenthe are thinking gold reset or thinking

10:54

gold reset. I mean that, you know, the

10:56

solution of the problem, the book describes

10:58

this as a chapter 22 is policy

11:00

response and talks about what we should

11:03

do. I mean, there's a way out of this

11:05

problem. You know, currency crises are

11:07

not rare. They've happened all over

11:10

the world for 100 years. And the

11:12

positive thing, you know, is that when

11:14

you solve them, things get better. Did a

11:16

pod with a guy who grew up in

11:18

Argentina in 1991? His parents were buying food

11:20

every... time they got paid as quickly as

11:22

they could because price were going up so

11:24

fast and of course currency failed and they

11:27

reset to the dollar he said a year

11:29

later everything was fine you know so if we

11:31

go back to sound money and that's what the book

11:33

talks about we can repair this this is not

11:35

if we don't get into a shooting war

11:37

and we don't totally crater the economy this

11:39

is not doom and gloom there's a solution

11:41

here but but it's not you know we're

11:43

not going to solve it by printing more

11:45

money We've got to solve it. I mean

11:48

and by the way going back to sound

11:50

money. It'll be a one-time painful event for

11:52

some You mentioned inflation before that was

11:54

the other point. I want to bring

11:56

up your book spends up a big

11:58

portion dedicated to it what? happens to

12:01

prices in the scenario you're

12:03

describing, Larry, are we going to

12:05

get lower prices? Well, yes, no,

12:07

not in the short term. I

12:09

mean, really, there's no, mathematically, there's

12:11

no way to not have a

12:13

serious inflation, which is why I

12:15

think betting on, you know, sound

12:18

money assets right now is kind

12:20

of a no-brainer bet. And that

12:22

is, why is that true? It's

12:24

true because there's just too much

12:26

debt and the debt needs to

12:28

be effectively inflated. So, if we do

12:30

this reset, we're going to have

12:32

a very painful one-time high rate

12:34

of inflation. Having said that, we

12:37

would then, I think people would

12:39

be able to tolerate it if

12:41

they knew that on a go-forward

12:43

basis after the reset, there would

12:45

be zero inflation, because we would be

12:47

on a sound money standard. And so,

12:50

what I'm advocating for is a one-time

12:52

reset, as opposed to another 10 or

12:54

15 years of pain, you know, And,

12:56

you know, this reset would not be

12:58

simple. I mean, it would be hard.

13:01

But, but again, you know, I think

13:03

people can take pain if they feel

13:05

like the future will be better. And

13:07

a sound money future would clearly be

13:09

better, in my opinion. Let's play out

13:11

the scenario that a reset tied to gold

13:14

back by gold is being planned. What does

13:16

that do to gold prices? Oh gosh, it

13:18

takes up to much, much higher levels. I

13:20

mean... You know, there have been many gold

13:23

standards run over the years and some, you

13:25

know, you don't have to have 100% backing

13:27

of the currency by gold, but typically you

13:29

have to have at least 40% backing. And

13:31

that would imply a gold price of kind

13:33

of 15, 20, 25, you know, some dollars

13:36

and ounce. I mean, numbers significantly higher than

13:38

we are today. So, you know, and it could

13:40

go higher. You know, it depends. I mean,

13:42

probably before we do the reset, there will

13:44

be some more money printing. So all that

13:46

new money printed will only make that

13:49

number a higher number. So, you know,

13:51

my personal target for gold, Daniel, is

13:53

I think we easily hit 5,000, you

13:55

know, maybe, you know, this year, but

13:57

certainly in the next several years. And

14:00

then after that, I think after that,

14:02

we hit 10. Beyond that, it gets

14:04

very fuzzy. I mean, we really don't

14:06

know what the policies they're going to

14:08

pursue are. You know, I mean, it,

14:10

I mean, you know, if we get,

14:13

if we get a, Stephanie Kelton is

14:15

our Treasury Secretary, she's the MMT woman,

14:17

gold's going to infinity. Definitely. Well, no,

14:19

I just. You know, having covered this

14:21

market for so long, you know, talk

14:23

of $5,000 gold just seemed insane, right?

14:26

And now here we are. I mean,

14:28

you know, at this pace, it could

14:30

happen very easily. It'll be there

14:32

by your end at this pace. I

14:34

don't think we're going to get through

14:36

this year. But, you know, none of

14:38

us really know. And, you know, it's a

14:41

very chaotic situation. And the problem most

14:43

investors have is that they're looking at

14:45

the last 40 years, and they didn't

14:47

see any kind of chaos like this.

14:49

I mean, everyone bought the dip in

14:51

the stock market, and everything was

14:53

deflationary. And you and I and all

14:55

the gold people, we've known for a

14:57

long, long time these pressures have been

14:59

building. I kind of compare it to

15:01

like an avalanche. I mean, the snow just

15:03

keeps on falling, and the thing looks stable,

15:06

right. You know, snow keeps falling and the

15:08

cornice gets bigger and bigger and then eventually,

15:10

you know, you get enough, you know, another

15:12

flake falls and that's it and it triggers

15:14

it and boom. The whole thing resets and that's kind

15:16

of, it feels to me that that's kind of

15:18

where we are. What role does Bitcoin play for you

15:20

in this equation? Yeah, so as you guys all know,

15:22

I'm a lover of Bitcoin as well as gold. I

15:24

love them both. I hate it when

15:27

people in both camps argue with each

15:29

other because they're both camps argue with

15:31

each other because they're both right. for

15:33

different reasons. Gold is right because it's

15:35

5,000 year old money, it's analog, it

15:37

can't be debated, can't be debased other

15:39

than just what comes out of the

15:41

ground, etc. And so it's fantastic. And

15:43

I own a lot of gold in

15:45

all my older clients' own gold because

15:47

it's less volatile and it's the thing

15:49

that protects them. Bitcoin is a emerging

15:51

form of sound money. It's a emerging

15:53

monetary technology. They develop something called digital

15:55

scarcity, which no one thought they could

15:57

do. And I believe it's sound enough.

16:00

to eventually qualify as being a form

16:02

of digital gold. And because it's being

16:04

adopted, they both enjoy the fact that

16:06

governments are printing money and so therefore

16:08

they're getting more valuable. In the case

16:11

of Bitcoin, it also enjoys the fact

16:13

that we live in a digital world

16:15

and adoption is growing. So right now, very

16:17

few people own Bitcoin, but I think as

16:20

time goes by, you know, just as in

16:22

the beginning, very few people use the internet,

16:24

and then we all use the internet. It's

16:26

a very similar model in my view. And so

16:28

I think more and more people are

16:30

going to adopt Bitcoin because it's easy

16:32

to move around, it's easy to store,

16:35

it's easy to verify, etc. And so

16:37

to me, it is emerging as a

16:39

digital form of gold. And if you

16:41

look at its performance over 16 years,

16:43

it's really crushed gold, and I think

16:45

it will continue to outperform gold. But

16:47

the price you pay for that outperformance

16:49

is extremely volatile. And people who go to

16:51

buy it, you know, have to be prepared

16:53

to see it, go down 50 or 60

16:56

or 60 percent. You know I always recommend

16:58

to my clients that you be nuts not

17:00

to have some of it because it's got

17:02

so much asymmetry and upside but you buy

17:04

you know buy the level by 5% 10%

17:06

you pick your number but buy the level

17:08

which you know that if it goes down

17:10

50% you're not going to freak out and

17:12

sell it. You're just going to in fact

17:14

you might buy some more or you're going

17:16

to wait four years because every four years

17:18

it'll be at a new high. Historically that's

17:20

what's what's what's happened. So I think it's

17:22

very important. But a lot of people have

17:24

closed their minds to it and people I

17:26

respect, people who are good economists like Peter

17:28

Schiff, they just don't seem to get it. And

17:31

I've tried multiple times to convince him and others

17:33

of it, but Frank and Juister, who I have

17:35

a lot of respect for, and they're just

17:37

not there yet. And I think I would

17:39

suggest to them read my book and understand

17:42

the arguments behind it. I mean, to me,

17:44

there is a risk. The biggest risk of

17:46

Bitcoin is technology. And it's the reason why

17:48

I was always skeptical of it. I thought

17:50

this is a computer and computers blow up.

17:52

And so, you know, we all know computers

17:54

are unstable to some degree. How can you

17:56

have money based on computers? Well, as it

17:58

turns out, because it's distributed... because there's a

18:01

lot of nodes, a lot of miners,

18:03

etc. I think they've solved that problem.

18:05

And so I no longer worry about

18:07

it technically blowing up. But if you

18:09

want to have a, if you want

18:12

to complain against Bitcoin, you complain that

18:14

the technology might blow up. The other

18:16

thing that could happen is if people

18:18

lost interest in it. But there's no

18:21

evidence of that happening every year more

18:23

and more people are buying it. So

18:25

to me, it's something that every investor

18:27

who's looking aggressively to grow their wealth

18:30

should have. By the way in my

18:32

most recent quarterly report I talked about

18:34

the fact that you know I want

18:36

people people ask me why are gold

18:38

stocks performing so poorly junior gold stocks

18:41

and I said you know one of

18:43

the possible these theories for that is

18:45

that in the past if you wanted

18:47

to have alpha on top of gold

18:50

you bought gold stocks because they they

18:52

outperformed gold but you know 20 and

18:54

30 year olds aren't buying gold stocks

18:56

anymore if they want alpha if they

18:59

want monetary debasement alpha They're buying Bitcoin.

19:01

Interesting. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, that

19:03

makes sense. That does make a lot

19:05

of sense. And yeah, I think, yeah,

19:07

I think Goldstocks are still great. I

19:10

own a ton of them. They're going

19:12

to do really, really well. I'm just

19:14

suggesting that it's that some of the

19:16

demand has gotten sucked away by Bitcoin.

19:19

Interesting. Yeah. Larry, last point I want

19:21

to end on, but it's a big

19:23

one, is Trump versus Powell. How does

19:25

it go down and more importantly do

19:28

you think the Fed's independence is at

19:30

risk? Yeah, so I really don't know

19:32

the answer to that. I don't know

19:34

what the Supreme Court's going to say.

19:36

They've asked for a ruling on it.

19:39

My sense is Powell is a tough

19:41

guy and he's going to stand tough

19:43

and he's not going to cave into

19:45

Trump. I actually think it's a little

19:48

bit of a moot point because what

19:50

I think is going on is Bessent

19:52

is going to force Powell's hand. If

19:54

the financial system gets unstable and starts

19:56

to conclude, right? Powell is going to

19:59

say, forget the inflation mandate. I've got

20:01

to keep the ATMs running. It's an

20:03

emergency. I have to do it. That's,

20:05

so Powell really needs the political cover

20:08

to do what we all need to

20:10

be, no needs to be done. And

20:12

I think Bissette lit the fuse to

20:14

create, you know, the explosion that's going

20:17

to have to cause Powell to do

20:19

the big print. So that's, that's kind

20:21

of how I see it going down

20:23

on all the other stuff is just

20:25

kind of political posturing back and forth.

20:28

I don't think Powell's going to give

20:30

it. I don't think Trump's going to

20:32

give it, right? You summed that up

20:34

so brilliantly. It's like the power play

20:37

of two brains, right? And I think

20:39

you're right. I think that Powell at

20:41

one point is going to have to

20:43

put a floor in and you're going

20:46

to get the lower rates. Oh, there's

20:48

no doubt. I mean, look, when the

20:50

long bond goes through 5% and the

20:52

dollar, you know, is falling into the

20:54

80s. And, you know, the stock market

20:57

is down 30 or 40%. I mean,

20:59

in the COVID example, the stock market

21:01

was down 32% and Powell panicked and

21:03

printed like crazy. Stock market right now

21:06

is down round numbers, just around 20%.

21:08

I mean, another 20% down with an

21:10

economy falling apart, no shipments from China,

21:12

you know, unemployment rising, etc. Well, they're

21:15

going to change the tune. The mandate

21:17

is going to become we've got to

21:19

support the economy. And we've got to

21:21

worry about our unemployment mandate. And yes,

21:23

there's an inflation risk, but we'll have

21:26

to deal with that. I can hear

21:28

him saying it. He'll pivot just like

21:30

he did before. So that's coming, but

21:32

it's going to take a little bit

21:35

more pain. And Bessent is out there

21:37

making sure that we administer the pain.

21:39

Yeah, it almost sounds like more printing

21:41

than helicopter Ben Bernanke. Oh, oh, it'll

21:44

have to be. So each time it

21:46

gets bigger. Right, we know that. I

21:48

mean, Bernanke printed two, three trillion, it

21:50

took him three, four years. Paul printed

21:52

five trillion in 18 months. And, you

21:55

know, this one, I think this will

21:57

be between seven and 10. You know,

21:59

I mean, they'll have to do yield

22:01

curve control. I mean, if they did

22:04

that entire U.S. bottom mark. is $37

22:06

trillion. If they bought their balance sheet

22:08

6.75, they bought the entire bond market

22:10

that balance sheet would go up 4X.

22:12

I mean, the thing, the point I'm

22:15

trying to make, Danielle, that's most important

22:17

is all of these things are inflationary.

22:19

How inflationary? We don't know. But if

22:21

you live in an inflationary world, you

22:24

know, the mistake the average investor is

22:26

making is thinking the last 40 years

22:28

is going to continue. And it's not.

22:30

We now live in an inflationary world.

22:33

And so that was the point of

22:35

the book. I'm trying to tell the

22:37

average citizen, get yourself ready for serious

22:39

inflation because it's coming. Okay, let's, you

22:41

just raised a great point. The biggest

22:44

mistake is we're assuming the next 40

22:46

years will continue. Getting yourself ready. So

22:48

for you, it obviously involves own gold,

22:50

own Bitcoin. Physical gold physical silver Bitcoin

22:53

in my case. I've got gold mining

22:55

stocks silver mining stocks I run a

22:57

fund that does those things real estate

22:59

actually kind of works I mean the

23:02

government can't print it, but they do

23:04

tax it heavily You know property tax

23:06

Yeah, I mean I just I know

23:08

a lot of people my age and

23:10

I'm 67 who are You know all

23:13

in on stocks and because it's it's

23:15

the thing to do. It's it's work

23:17

since oh eight. It's work and it's

23:19

work and I think that the conditions

23:22

have changed and people need to really

23:24

think rethink that allocation. And if I

23:26

could just add one thing, you know,

23:28

I was speaking with people who wanted

23:31

to get in a $3,000 goal, but

23:33

they thought I can't do $3,000 an

23:35

ounce and it's hard to, you know,

23:37

inform folks, well, you know, that $3,000

23:39

is going to be in the rear-view

23:42

mirror soon. I've got a great analogy

23:44

on this. I've used this on other

23:46

points. I really, I like this analogy

23:48

if you if you indulge me if

23:51

you indulge me. So, so, so, so,

23:53

please. Gold, so the financial system, the

23:55

monetary system is currently constructed as the

23:57

Titanic, okay? I mean, it's, you can't

24:00

print forever, they're going to have to

24:02

inflate, it's going down, eventually it might

24:04

even fail. Okay, gold is a seat

24:06

in a lifeboat, and Bitcoin is a

24:08

seat in a lifeboat. So I bought

24:11

gold at $1,000 an ounce, I bought

24:13

it lower than that, and 300 an

24:15

ounce, we're back in 2000, but I

24:17

bought some of the 1,000 an ounce,

24:20

and now it's 3,000. And as I

24:22

say, I have friends, I can't pay

24:24

three, you paid one. Okay, fine. So

24:26

I got my seat for 1,000 or

24:28

1,000, or 1,000. It's, you know, it's

24:31

3,000 a seat or 85,000 a seat

24:33

bid to you. What do you want?

24:35

You want to stay on the Titanic?

24:37

You want to get in a lifeboat?

24:40

Because, I mean, I think the mon-

24:42

I mean, and that's perhaps a bit

24:44

extreme. I mean, I'm not sure the

24:46

monetary system is going to completely fail

24:49

and we're going to go to hyperinflation.

24:51

But I do know with high level

24:53

of confidence that we are going to

24:55

have more inflation. And so if you

24:57

believe we're going to have more inflation.

25:00

in both of those moves. I can

25:02

see much higher numbers for both of

25:04

those assets. What's their counter argument to

25:06

folks who say, well the tariffs will

25:09

actually lead to deflationary environment? Yeah, so

25:11

I don't see how tariffs can lead

25:13

to a deflationary environment. I mean, eventually,

25:15

you know, they could help the government

25:18

balance its budget, but they really slow

25:20

everything down. You know, yes, I mean,

25:22

they are deflationary in the sense that

25:24

the smooth holly tariffs in the 30s

25:26

were deflationary and they really crushed the

25:29

economy. I guess the bet I'm making,

25:31

Daniela, is that if we get into

25:33

that kind of crushed economy, the way

25:35

the Fed will deal with it will

25:38

be to print money. So, so yes,

25:40

there's a way out of this without

25:42

inflation, and that is let the economy

25:44

just collapse and have widespread bank trumps,

25:47

widespread failures, you know, etc. But that

25:49

doesn't really lead to balancing the balancing

25:51

the balancing the budget, you know, because...

25:53

in these downturns, you know, social payments

25:55

go up, tax receipts go down. I

25:58

mean I just don't see, you know,

26:00

I'm kind of at a loss for

26:02

how to think of a scenario where

26:04

the government doesn't print a lot of

26:07

money. I just don't see it. Well

26:09

said, Larry, like I said, get his

26:11

book. I actually think this book should

26:13

be in all high schools, Larry. I

26:16

also think it's a great gift to

26:18

give your friends and family who want

26:20

to learn because it's written, like I

26:22

said, in a very easy to read.

26:24

I love how you said you made

26:27

your wife read it first, right? Yeah,

26:29

she was my test case. She doesn't

26:31

know anything about this stuff. She's a,

26:33

she's a writer and, you know, an

26:36

ad exact, and, and so monetary stuff.

26:38

She's like, that's your department. I said,

26:40

great, you're going to read this. So

26:42

just appeals, it appeals to all levels.

26:44

The big print, what happens to America

26:47

and how sound money will fix it,

26:49

get that copy. And we spoke so

26:51

much about gold buying as always, I

26:53

invite you to reach out to my

26:56

colleagues at ITM Trading, reach out to

26:58

us. gold and silver and tell them

27:00

Daniela sent you and they'll take extra

27:02

great care of you. Larry, thank you

27:05

for your time. Oh thank you Daniel.

27:07

I always enjoy our conversations. I do

27:09

as well. And I'd like to see

27:11

great guys like you succeed. So like

27:13

I said, get that book folks and

27:16

we'll see you soon.