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try at mintmobile.com, You are listening to

1:01

the Joe Rogan Experience Review podcast. We

1:04

find little nuggets, treasures, valuable pieces

1:06

of gold in the Joe Rogan Experience

1:08

podcast and pass them on to

1:10

you, perhaps expand a little bit. We

1:12

are not associated with Joe Rogan

1:14

in any way. Think of us as

1:16

the talking dead to Joe's walking

1:18

dead. You're listening to the Joe Rogan

1:21

Experience Review. What a bizarre thing

1:23

we've created. Now with your host,

1:25

Adam Thorn. Might either be the

1:27

worst podcast or the best

1:29

one of all time. One

1:31

go enjoy the show Hello ladies

1:34

and gentlemen and welcome

1:36

back to another episode of

1:38

the Joe Rogan experience

1:40

review today. I'm joined by

1:42

Peter What's cracking? Oh, not

1:45

too much. Good day to you Good

1:47

day to you, sir And we

1:49

are doing the Douglas

1:51

Murray and Dave Smith episode

1:54

Which I got a lot of emails

1:56

about a lot of texts about People

1:58

were excited for this.

2:01

I think maybe they were

2:03

surprised by this. Even

2:06

people that I know that

2:08

I had no idea was aware

2:10

of who Douglas Murray was.

2:12

I was kind of pressed. Well,

2:15

it really speaks to his

2:17

reach and authority in

2:19

this area of debate. Yeah,

2:22

he seems to be the

2:24

go -to guy for... He

2:26

seems to be the go -to

2:29

guy for people our age

2:31

and a little younger and

2:33

a little older Yeah, yeah,

2:35

and you know a disclaimer

2:37

from me I have a

2:39

lot of respect for Douglas

2:41

That I agree on many

2:44

of his points often even

2:46

when I am unsure or

2:48

possibly don't I always respect

2:50

how he breaks down the

2:52

argument you

2:55

know, and in terms

2:57

of debate, I love how

2:59

he can hold court. He

3:02

can get his point across,

3:04

but he often will take

3:06

a step back, kind of

3:08

lower his cadence and bring

3:10

the energy to a different

3:12

place. So it's like almost

3:14

less likely to stay as

3:16

elevated and argumentative. He does

3:18

a really good job of that. And

3:20

in addition, I've

3:23

got a lot of Respect

3:25

for Dave Smith and I

3:27

You know the one thing

3:29

that Douglas was saying through

3:31

this podcast that I

3:33

honestly Don't fully agree with

3:35

though. I see where he's

3:38

coming from is that Podcasters

3:40

or just people that are

3:42

like quote -unquote doing their own

3:44

research have a valid voice

3:47

It's like yeah, I

3:49

get it generally and through

3:51

time we have taking

3:53

a step back to the

3:55

expert class, the professional

3:57

class, those with the,

3:59

you know, the scholarly

4:02

reviews and so forth

4:04

when it comes to being

4:06

historians or scientists or

4:08

whatever, right? It's like, there's

4:10

a reason the experts, well, there's

4:12

a reason the experts exist

4:14

and they're respected and listened

4:17

to because they've put the

4:19

work in. But

4:21

I think other people have a voice.

4:24

And I think where Douglas is coming

4:26

from is he's like, it's dangerous

4:28

because it can confuse people. And

4:30

just because you're popular and

4:32

you have an opinion, um,

4:37

you know, doesn't mean you should be

4:39

listened to because you might drive

4:41

people in a direction that's been debunked.

4:43

Whereas I think where Dave Smith

4:45

and Rogan are coming from. is it's

4:47

like, hey, it's up to the

4:50

individual to kind of work through this.

4:53

And that could be mistakes. Dave

4:56

says a lot of stuff like, who

4:58

are you going to believe? The

5:00

experts or your lying eyes? We

5:04

can see this sort of stuff. We

5:06

can definitely form an opinion

5:08

about the information that's out

5:10

there. The information is out

5:12

there. the

5:14

atrocities occur, Dave doesn't like that

5:16

going down, and he says as

5:19

much. And I think

5:21

it leans into that whole idea

5:23

that, you know, people can't

5:25

be trusted to make good decisions.

5:27

So they just have to

5:29

wait for the smartest people

5:32

to tell them. And

5:34

that takes a lot of

5:36

power and ownership away from

5:38

regular folks. It's

5:40

like they can make their own decisions

5:42

too. And guess

5:44

what? We've been lied to by the

5:46

experts before. They're not

5:48

always right. Well, Dave brought that up.

5:50

He brought that up as an example about

5:52

COVID. And I think,

5:54

I think that that was

5:56

a tough one for Douglas

5:59

to defend because he also

6:01

was kind of on the

6:03

side of speaking out about

6:05

it and also not an

6:07

expert in that area. Yet

6:09

they were, they were pretty

6:11

correct on their assertions. I

6:13

mean, it came from a

6:15

lab, folks. Ah,

6:17

racist. Bigot. Right. How

6:20

dare I? How

6:23

dare I? It's like if there

6:25

was a marshmallow factory, and

6:27

then all of a

6:29

sudden there's just this weird

6:31

marshmallow monster attack, and they're

6:33

like, it came from the

6:35

fairground across the river. You'd

6:38

be like, well. The Boy

6:40

Scouts let their s'mores get out of hand,

6:42

we think. Or

6:44

was it the weapons grade

6:47

marshmallow, man? There we

6:49

go. That might be the

6:51

most ridiculous example I've ever come up

6:53

with, but I like it. You

6:55

know, Douglas did come out

6:57

on the defensive early on.

6:59

I think he knew that they

7:02

were going to be kind of

7:04

teaming up Dave and Joe. It's

7:08

kind of hard to sit

7:10

neutral in a debate when

7:12

you know there's like a

7:14

type of 2v1. But

7:17

even before we get into like

7:19

breaking down their points and moving

7:21

through, I would say

7:23

as debates go, even

7:25

potentially contentious ones where

7:27

people have strong opinions, this

7:30

is a much better example of

7:32

how a debate should be. So I

7:34

do give credit to both of

7:36

them for that. And,

7:39

you know, I don't think they cut each other off.

7:41

Yeah, I don't think they left hating each other. You

7:44

know? Maybe

7:47

there's an arm wrestle in

7:49

that future, but... Yeah, they

7:51

might do headbutt contest or

7:53

something. Mm -hmm. Those guys

7:55

are not the kind to get

7:57

into it physically. No, of

7:59

course not. Too big of a brain. That's

8:01

it. Yeah,

8:05

he did kind of come in,

8:08

Douglass did, trying to minimize

8:10

the credibility of some

8:12

of the opponents of the

8:14

opinions that he has,

8:16

which I don't know is

8:18

probably a good tactic

8:20

for debate, but it's,

8:22

I guess if you

8:24

want to make a debate

8:26

really short, that's a

8:28

good way of doing it.

8:31

Right. But, you know... He

8:33

nitpicked Joe's guests right

8:35

off the bat. Right off

8:37

the bat, he was

8:39

saying, maybe you should have

8:41

some more on this

8:43

side, less on this side,

8:45

but it's his show,

8:47

so I mean, that's a

8:50

moot point. But

8:52

also, Joe's show is

8:54

very popular, and Douglas is saying,

8:57

yeah, but now you have people

8:59

that are less informed following this.

9:01

because so many people listened. And

9:04

I think Joe is always trying to

9:06

point to the fact that, hey, well, they

9:08

get to make their minds up. And,

9:11

you know, is the

9:13

end result this, you

9:15

know, ignorant, racist,

9:17

something, something that comes out of

9:19

it that otherwise wouldn't have been.

9:21

No, I don't think so either

9:23

because there's other elements to that.

9:25

Like it's one thing to be

9:28

a conspiracy theorist. but to be

9:30

pulled down a road of hate

9:32

requires your own hatred, which you

9:34

had before you listened to any

9:36

fucking podcast. Yeah, the

9:38

bias was existing already. And

9:41

if you just read any of

9:43

Douglas's works, he examines

9:45

everything he can get his

9:47

hands on. I'm

9:49

inclined to defer to

9:51

his wisdom and his authority

9:53

as a, quote, expert,

9:56

if he even is one. His

9:59

books speak to me Also,

10:01

I can disagree with a

10:03

few of his bigger points

10:05

that he he brings to

10:07

this discussion. Yeah, well, and

10:09

that's a big that's an

10:12

important point In general is

10:14

you don't you probably shouldn't

10:16

agree with every point that

10:18

anyone is making like you

10:20

and I very good friends

10:22

and I Would say I

10:25

would say our friendship gets

10:27

stronger as we age,

10:29

and the requirement at no

10:31

point is to agree with

10:33

everything that you're saying. It's

10:36

like, it's fine. People say

10:38

it to me all the time because I review Rogan.

10:41

So if they don't like Rogan,

10:43

they have their two or

10:45

three points that they probably didn't

10:47

even listen to him say

10:49

on the podcast, but heard about

10:51

him saying on the view

10:53

or read some article about it.

10:55

And they're like, yeah, but

10:57

you can't agree with that. And

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Standard. But that

12:34

doesn't make me disagree. on

12:36

all the other many insightful

12:38

and interesting things that he has

12:40

done and said, and that's

12:42

not a requirement for me. Right.

12:45

You know, I always like to throw

12:47

back, well, who do you agree with

12:49

100 % all the time? And

12:52

almost no one has an answer. Sometimes

12:55

some people throw some stuff out.

12:57

Somebody recently was like, well, I really

12:59

think Kamala was just an inspiration. I

13:03

didn't know what else to say back.

13:05

What can you say to that? What

13:07

can you say? What can you

13:09

say? Yeah. What has

13:11

been before will be

13:13

again. But only if

13:15

you're unburdened by what has been.

13:17

The passage of time and also yellow

13:19

school buses. Those

13:22

VIN diagrams really got her going.

13:24

I get that. Yeah. So

13:26

I just feel like it's

13:28

such a bad example of

13:30

You know why anyone should

13:32

listen to anybody else When

13:34

you get when you agree

13:36

100 % you're gonna get

13:39

caught up in something that

13:41

you you did. You're not

13:43

signing up for mm -hmm You

13:45

get along I mean they

13:47

bring up Winston Churchill and

13:49

people kind of speaking out

13:51

against him or just having

13:53

different opinions I don't know

13:55

if this is like British

13:57

bias, but if you're the

13:59

prime minister in a war

14:01

like Even

14:04

if you like you're gonna

14:06

make some mistakes even if

14:08

you win the war and

14:10

Pull off a miracle victory,

14:12

which he kind of did

14:14

There's gonna be mistakes in

14:16

there and I don't know

14:18

if it's even worth judging

14:20

anyone just on that mistake

14:22

When in war there's it's

14:24

the perfect example of making

14:27

omelets where you have to

14:29

crack eggs The

14:31

only way to win war is to

14:33

be real politic. I'm

14:35

not sure when that term was invented, but

14:37

I think it was right around then, where

14:40

you have to

14:42

be real. Well,

14:45

maybe we'll look that

14:47

one up, but it's when

14:49

you can't adhere to

14:52

your social values at all

14:54

times in that instance,

14:56

you're gonna have to bomb

14:58

Dresden. You know

15:00

people it's messy Right

15:03

Yeah, I mean you

15:05

know and it's not

15:07

to defend or justify

15:09

Any countries that ever

15:12

have killed innocent people

15:14

and especially you know

15:16

little kids But if

15:19

you all put in

15:21

the position of having

15:23

to make the decision

15:25

of when to attack

15:28

at what time to

15:30

save your whole country. That

15:34

doesn't really mean it's your value,

15:36

right? I guess your value is

15:38

to save your people. But

15:41

it wouldn't be unreasonable to think

15:43

that somebody that could be like,

15:45

okay, yeah, we do need to

15:47

bomb that building also has his

15:49

own or her own values that

15:51

say, I don't want anyone to

15:54

die or any kids to die.

15:57

There might be a way about

15:59

going about that a little

16:01

bit better. I think that's what

16:04

Dave's point is often that

16:06

Come on. We're the most advanced

16:08

country or We are all

16:10

the most advanced militaries that we

16:12

have ever had Maybe we

16:15

could do this a little bit

16:17

better and oh then like

16:19

blanket bombing an entire city carpet

16:21

bombing an apartment complex to

16:23

To get one guy and maybe

16:25

killed 25 people or families.

16:28

That's that recently just happened. Yeah.

16:33

Yeah, that's kind of a good point. It's

16:36

like, I think, you know, the

16:39

Israelis like lay out

16:41

on paper your total

16:44

capabilities. And let's see if

16:46

they match up to like how you went

16:48

about this. Because,

16:51

um, Think

16:53

that his big problem was the

16:55

response from like Tulsi and and all

16:57

the people we really pulled for

16:59

me, but you know, I really pulled

17:01

for Finding out that while these

17:03

people are ready to be complicit in

17:05

this type of terrible activity Not

17:08

to say that it wouldn't I mean

17:10

what would I do? I don't

17:12

know but it's just I get it.

17:14

What did Tulsi say? Oh

17:17

after the

17:19

After they Was

17:22

it is a bomb or maybe

17:24

we did it. We bombed some

17:26

bomb maker at his girlfriend's apartment

17:28

complex and Tulsi was you know,

17:30

there's there was some ash casualties

17:32

and she was just like thumbs

17:34

up good job America You know

17:36

it's kind of a bad optic

17:38

it was in that signal gate

17:40

stuff when oh when they accidentally

17:42

signed on to the That one

17:44

the journalist on the wrong on

17:46

the wrong teams meeting. Yeah. Yeah,

17:48

that was sloppy guys Anyway,

17:51

it's that's real

17:53

politics for you, but

17:56

it's not cool

17:58

What do you think

18:00

it's just like

18:02

almost the same as

18:04

kind of what

18:06

Douglas was defending they

18:08

they noticed just

18:10

like politicians that if

18:13

you Don't only

18:15

what but if you

18:18

If you don't not only defend

18:20

your position, but almost encourage

18:22

things that that could

18:24

require an apology, you're just

18:26

like, no, that was

18:28

the best. That's how we

18:30

need to do it. That

18:34

just the pushback

18:36

is so hard. Everyone's

18:39

coming at you. Everyone's

18:42

like, see, they acknowledged

18:44

that it was bad and they still did

18:46

it. And it's

18:48

just like an extra excuse to

18:50

not be, I don't

18:52

know what the word is, patriotic or

18:54

supportive of whatever the action is, that

18:56

type of thing. And

18:59

everybody has access all

19:01

the time to the information

19:03

that everyone else does,

19:05

so there's no getting around

19:07

it or sneaking around. It's

19:11

all about optic. It

19:13

could all be pushed towards a negative. Yeah.

19:19

Douglas's description of what a

19:21

libertarian was was fantastic

19:24

calling them basically bisexuals because

19:26

they They go both

19:28

ways like it was clever.

19:30

It was funny. It

19:32

was at least the first

19:34

funny thing that was

19:36

said which is Interesting it

19:38

came from him since

19:40

two comedians were on the

19:42

show And it's kind

19:44

of undeniable a little bit

19:47

It's like, it's such

19:49

a clever little line that

19:51

it's like, oh, damn

19:53

it. You got me, bitch.

19:56

It's kind of like always wanting your cake

19:58

and eating it too sort of thing. Rather.

20:02

Yeah. Best of both

20:04

worlds. But there's no

20:06

way you can have the best of

20:08

both worlds ever. Yeah. I

20:11

thought it was going to throw Dave

20:13

off a little harder than it did.

20:16

He was going to have to take a

20:19

second to regroup and be like, uh, I'm

20:21

a happily married man, but

20:23

no homo.

20:25

Just throws

20:27

it. All right,

20:29

Dave. But yeah, it was also a,

20:31

it was a clever point of argument

20:33

too. Like Doug listened to me. He

20:35

was in there a while. It's good

20:37

to get a break. It's good to

20:39

reset. It's good to

20:41

have a laugh. And,

20:44

you know, even at a

20:46

time when you can't

20:48

find necessarily things you agree

20:50

on. And

20:52

it did. It

20:55

did kind of give them a little reset. And

20:57

there were moments where they agreed

20:59

on things. But

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podcast. They probably agree on

21:33

a lot of things. They just weren't

21:35

in this conversation. This

21:37

conversation was designed for two

21:39

people that have opposing opinions and

21:41

a lot of knowledge. So

21:43

through that whole action, it was going

21:45

to be hard for them to

21:47

have many things to agree on. It

21:50

wasn't about agreeing. This one was about a

21:52

certain, this one was about their disagreement. Right.

21:55

Who do you think ultimately, and

21:57

this isn't like the conclusion to

22:00

this, but just to kind of

22:02

frame it before we continue, who

22:04

do you think came out of

22:06

this looking the best? or

22:08

was there even a person? I

22:11

think that

22:13

Dave Smith really

22:15

defended his side

22:17

well. He

22:19

had great points. He had great

22:22

references. I

22:24

really liked when Douglas was

22:26

talking about the living in the

22:28

West. We see the world

22:30

through the West's lens where All

22:32

the atrocities and the bad

22:34

stuff happens to the western countries

22:36

because those governments are gonna

22:38

Allow it to be seen versus

22:40

hide it like North Korea

22:42

or Russia Does its best to

22:44

hide its flaws we we

22:46

hit we wear our flaws on

22:48

our sleeve and I would

22:50

agree with Douglas on that one.

22:52

It's like we have the

22:55

freedom here to show the world

22:57

our mistakes versus the Versus

22:59

the dictators and stuff they hide

23:01

all that stuff. So I

23:03

liked a lot of points from both of them. I had

23:05

said, that's a hard question. I

23:07

can't answer it. Yeah. No, I'm

23:09

kind of with you. I think it's, I

23:12

like them

23:14

equally. And even on

23:16

areas that I lean into

23:18

what Dave's saying, or even

23:20

like understanding of where Douglas

23:22

is coming from, you

23:26

know, I think both of them

23:28

seem valid. Like nobody got checkmated. I

23:30

don't think anyone looks stupid. I

23:32

think you've got to give some credit

23:35

to Douglas because he was kind

23:37

of on the back foot. It's a

23:39

little rough when you got two

23:41

people in there that are potentially coming

23:43

out. Yeah. But he handles that

23:45

shit so well. He's so

23:47

composed. He's brave. He

23:50

knows how to just stare right

23:52

in the fit. Like he could be,

23:54

he's the kind of guy that

23:56

could be on a debate panel with

23:58

nine other people that disagree with

24:00

him. And he'd fucking hold his own

24:02

as like the one, the

24:04

- Yeah, he would just sashay

24:06

around, flounce around

24:09

and end up making

24:11

himself look, and his topic

24:13

would look good. Yeah, yeah,

24:16

his posture wouldn't change. He

24:18

would still have a great shirt

24:20

on, probably get a

24:23

little bit extra English

24:25

and just clean up. That

24:28

must be weird, like powerful. I

24:31

wonder if he when he gets into

24:33

debates with like way dumber people I

24:35

wonder if he it's like when you

24:37

play chess with a kid You'll like

24:39

go a bit easier on him. You're

24:41

like, oh, that's a good You know,

24:43

you're not like going in there like

24:45

Magnus Coulson just to check made him

24:47

and fall like you give him a

24:49

chance I wonder if he tones down

24:51

when he's like debating Lesser debaters. He's

24:53

like, yeah, I just see where this

24:55

goes I think I've seen that happen

24:57

and he does he does broader strokes

25:00

You you paint more of a

25:02

broad picture there and maybe you

25:04

don't bring as much data analysis

25:06

or this little fine point or

25:08

that nuance you just You have

25:11

a broader stroke with right. I've

25:13

seen him. I've seen him I've

25:15

seen almost everything I can find

25:17

on on a YouTube with him.

25:19

Yeah, he's fascinating man. He's fascinating.

25:21

I'm glad he came on. I

25:24

mean To hear these two kind

25:26

of discuss these points is important

25:28

and you know, it's better for

25:30

me then trying to make sense

25:32

of it, watching fucking CNN or

25:34

Fox News or a 60 minutes

25:37

or some documentary. It's

25:39

like, this is a great way

25:41

to just kind of break down

25:43

because, you know, a lot of

25:45

what they're both doing is summarizing

25:47

feelings that many people have on

25:49

each side and just kind of

25:52

like making the big topic like,

25:54

hey, there's people that look at

25:56

it this way. And then the

25:58

other guy's like, well, yeah, but

26:00

there's also, this is how people

26:02

are seeing it. And you

26:05

get to decide as an individual, like,

26:07

hey, am I gonna listen to

26:09

a comedian that obviously has a lot

26:11

of knowledge and has a different

26:13

angle of looking at it? Or this

26:15

guy that's been in the news

26:17

and a reporter for many years and

26:20

also has like boots on the

26:22

ground in those areas. I

26:26

wonder how Dave would do

26:28

over there. He's, I'm not

26:30

sure that the Israelis would

26:32

show him the same all

26:34

access pass that Douglas has

26:37

got. No,

26:39

well, probably not. He doesn't

26:41

have the like journalistic credentials. He

26:44

is Jewish though. So

26:46

he probably has at

26:48

least some VIP club

26:50

passes. Throw him out,

26:52

some bottle service. Some dancing.

26:55

Tel Aviv dances to be

26:57

fair though If he went

26:59

to Gaza might be a

27:01

little rough for him No

27:03

one's up. No one's welcome

27:05

over there. Yeah, not anymore.

27:07

I mean before they were

27:10

like blowing up everything Yeah,

27:12

people could go there Man,

27:14

it's devastated over there. nothing

27:17

left They bet you know,

27:19

they barely show it a

27:21

lot of times because the

27:23

destruction is so flatlined I

27:26

mean, they've completely flatlined that

27:28

place. Was Dave saying that?

27:30

He was like, were they in every building then?

27:32

Is that the deal? Every building,

27:34

I guess. I guess

27:36

so. It's hard to maintain

27:38

a side on this one when

27:40

you see what's been going on.

27:44

Yeah, but also it's a bit of a luxury of being

27:46

over here is we don't have to pick a side. You

27:49

know, just the hope is

27:51

that we're conscientious about the

27:54

events. and reflect on it.

27:56

And I would like to think

27:58

that everyone agrees that any

28:01

type of war, any

28:03

type of death like this is

28:05

just unfortunate and it sucks

28:07

for whatever reason. And

28:10

yeah,

28:13

and then hopefully we stay out of

28:15

similar things. You'd

28:17

hope so. It seems like

28:19

we're fast -tracked for the... World

28:22

stage here in little few

28:24

years. It seems like there's

28:26

gonna be a Quite a

28:28

conflict of ruin. Hmm. I

28:31

Mean Douglas Porter brought up

28:33

a really interesting point, which

28:35

is something that's been mentioned

28:37

a lot like there's been

28:39

a lot of aid going

28:41

into Gaza for the last

28:43

18 plus years from a

28:45

lot of different countries billions

28:47

and billions of dollars and

28:49

You know they elected Hamas

28:51

and Seems like

28:53

Hamas siphoned a lot of

28:55

the money away and the

28:58

top people in that organization

29:00

just enrich their own families

29:02

to billions of dollars and

29:04

Billions and didn't improve the

29:06

life of the regular Palestinian

29:08

people there And it could

29:11

have been enough money to

29:13

really turn that place into

29:15

something liveable Really nice hurts

29:17

their credibility doesn't it? Hurts

29:19

the credibility of that whole

29:22

thing Yeah, it makes you

29:24

think a little bit about

29:26

Sending aid because it's like

29:28

obviously you want to help

29:30

people that need aid, but

29:33

if they're only getting one

29:35

cent for every dollar then

29:37

You know, I guess you

29:39

can still justify it well

29:41

at least that one cent

29:44

got to the people and

29:46

gave them food which they

29:48

didn't have but You know

29:50

when 60 cents went to

29:52

buying munitions to eventually use

29:55

against other people a

29:57

difficult sell. It's mostly

29:59

going to penthouse luxury

30:01

suites in Qatar for

30:03

the family of the

30:05

people who run that

30:07

organization from what we're

30:10

learning about it. And

30:13

it's bad

30:15

news. Yeah. Yeah.

30:18

But then, you know, this whole

30:20

motivation thing. I mean, those two got

30:22

into it about Putin and Ukraine, you

30:25

know, Putin warning that

30:27

if Ukraine joins NATO,

30:29

that's like the firm line

30:31

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k -12.com slash podcast. And

31:03

Douglas was saying, well, no, that's just

31:05

always been the excuse. He's always wanted to

31:07

go in there. Redo

31:12

the Soviet Union. Yeah,

31:14

which I don't think is

31:16

probably not true, you know, I'm

31:18

sure he has but like

31:21

isn't everything timing So regardless of

31:23

the motivation, it's like well,

31:25

I need a good excuse this

31:27

seems like One of them

31:29

pushing in that direction. They're putting

31:32

NATO troops here. They're pushing

31:34

me to do this I told

31:36

him I would and listen

31:38

guys. I'm still like completely pro

31:40

America and You know,

31:42

I would say pro

31:44

Europe over Russia, but to

31:47

be fair, I've never

31:49

been to Russia. I'm not

31:51

Russian. I am I

31:53

was born in Europe and

31:55

came to America. So

31:57

I have my biases and

31:59

reasons to protect those

32:01

places but also I think

32:03

there's space to reconsider

32:05

and question things and Just

32:08

be like well, maybe

32:10

maybe what we're being told

32:12

is not the whole

32:14

story here and He did

32:16

Dave did lay down

32:18

some pretty pretty interesting facts

32:20

about former CIA directors

32:22

Trying to come to the

32:24

tape or warning this

32:26

the State Department about the

32:28

the red lines that

32:30

Putin has set down and

32:32

then there was the

32:34

whole like truce available available

32:37

maybe it was seven years ago, or

32:40

just before, when Biden took

32:42

office, I think, that

32:44

he said, I will assure you

32:46

I'm not gonna go anywhere. I'm

32:48

not gonna extend my borders. If

32:50

you assure me that Ukraine is

32:52

not gonna be entered into NATO,

32:55

that never happened. And like

32:57

you said, maybe we don't know

32:59

what he's thinking, but that's an

33:01

excuse that he can use to

33:04

invade. Yeah, and

33:06

you've got to be careful about

33:08

giving people excuses. I mean, you

33:10

know, isn't it fair to say

33:12

that 9 -11 ended up being

33:14

the excuse to invade Iraq that

33:16

had very little to do with

33:18

it? It's like you

33:21

can build momentum with

33:23

excuses that allow you

33:25

to get away with

33:27

things that ordinarily you

33:29

wouldn't be able to

33:31

Yes Dicey

33:35

world we're living in mm -hmm.

33:38

What did you think about? Douglas's

33:40

point when He and

33:42

he really held on to

33:44

this point for a

33:46

while about have you been

33:48

there and he does

33:50

this I've seen him do

33:53

it on Pierce. I've

33:55

seen him do it on

33:57

a bunch of different

33:59

shows when he's kind of

34:01

Basically, I guess what

34:03

he's doing that is expanding

34:05

upon or no, justifying

34:07

his expertise. He's

34:09

saying, hey, I have these

34:11

opinions, but also I've walked

34:13

to those streets. Now,

34:15

is that just a really good

34:17

play when he knows that he's

34:20

debating anyone that hasn't been there?

34:22

And maybe he only throws that

34:24

out when he's like losing. an

34:27

argument or not gaining as much

34:29

headway with someone who he knows has

34:31

not been to these places. Do

34:34

you think it's valid? It's

34:37

a little less than

34:39

valid and it's

34:41

kind of tacky, a

34:43

little cheap. I feel it's a little cheap. That's

34:45

what I'm wondering. Also, it's

34:48

true. There is credibility from getting

34:50

there and looking people in the eyes,

34:53

looking at what they're up to. But

34:56

if Dave goes there, I'm sure

34:58

he's gonna be convinced to the opposite.

35:01

He's gonna be like, wow, I

35:03

was right, look at this stuff.

35:05

And you know, Graham Hancock does

35:07

that often when he's talking about

35:09

ancient sites. Have you been there?

35:12

Because it's, well, when

35:14

he's talking to, you know,

35:16

many archaeologists or like trying

35:18

to debate them, he's talking

35:20

about sites that are not

35:22

well... respected by traditional archaeologists,

35:24

so they're not really checking

35:27

it out all that much. So

35:29

he can always throw out there

35:31

like, hey, I went there, I saw

35:34

it. You go there,

35:36

you tell me what you think. And

35:38

at least in terms of archaeology, that's

35:40

kind of something true that's missing. Like

35:43

they are not sending

35:45

these people to examine

35:47

sites that are seen

35:49

as like so old

35:51

and ancient and impossible.

35:55

And like imposing. So

35:57

the thing about archaeology

35:59

is the thing itself in

36:01

situ is the only

36:04

story there is. If

36:06

you don't go see it, look at it, see

36:08

the situation, you don't know

36:10

the story. Right. So maybe

36:12

that could be translated to this situation

36:14

as well. So maybe there is some

36:16

validity there. Yeah, I

36:18

think there is, but it doesn't take

36:20

away from When and how

36:22

he does it within a

36:25

debate, right? So

36:27

when you're saying it could

36:29

be tacky the way Douglas does

36:31

it. It's like you gotta

36:33

You gotta look at more of

36:35

his debates and see when

36:37

he uses that it's like if

36:39

he's already winning it and

36:41

crushing and never brings it up

36:43

Okay, but then if he's

36:45

struggling to make his point and

36:48

just happens to know this person

36:50

hasn't been there, does

36:53

it really add much validity

36:55

to his thing? Because

36:57

that's why many people don't

36:59

like to debate, because

37:01

you've got two things going on.

37:04

You've got someone with a lot of

37:06

knowledge that understands the situation, and

37:08

then also someone that's very good at

37:10

debating. And Trump

37:12

is a prime example of

37:14

this, because he has, whether

37:16

you like him or not,

37:18

some of the most legendary

37:20

moments in presidential debating history

37:22

where he completely derailed the

37:24

other individual the crowd went

37:26

wild and when you look

37:28

at the context and quality

37:30

of the point that he

37:32

made it was mostly like

37:34

it was close to just

37:36

being like you're a nerd

37:38

yeah everyone knows you're a

37:40

nerd it's like that look

37:42

look at his wife he's

37:44

a dog yeah So that's

37:47

like a prime example of

37:49

like if you maximize your

37:51

ability to be a good

37:53

debater, and you're coming in

37:55

with like really no substance

37:57

at all, then yeah, it

37:59

can look like you just win all

38:01

the time. And I guess

38:03

that is a win, regardless

38:05

of if it looks

38:07

good on paper is

38:09

maybe less important than

38:12

a W in general. Yeah,

38:15

I mean you got to

38:17

take a real step back probably

38:19

run the transcripts through chat

38:21

GPT and then say take all

38:23

the insults out and Tell

38:25

me who gave us the most

38:27

facts But people aren't hearing

38:29

it like that You're not you're

38:31

hearing something happen in the

38:33

moment and there is a lot

38:35

of credit given to somebody

38:37

that just goes well in your

38:39

face fatty and you're just

38:41

like I

38:44

got wrecked. Well, on

38:47

the note about Douglas

38:49

Murray being there and using

38:51

that in in his

38:53

in these debates, it's

38:55

also it's all we

38:58

are people in time and

39:00

place and the time

39:02

and the location defines us.

39:04

The socioeconomic status defines

39:06

us. So if you don't

39:08

go there and see

39:10

the people in their places,

39:13

Then you don't really know about

39:15

it You can read all

39:17

you want you can dissect the

39:19

the politics and the military

39:22

action But if you don't see

39:24

the hate and the fear

39:26

and the love people's eyes, then

39:28

you're not getting what You're

39:30

not gonna feel the whole zeitgeist

39:33

of a people time and

39:35

place Yeah, I don't really know

39:37

what my takeaways are from

39:39

this, you know, I feel like

39:44

Those that agree with Douglas

39:46

Cross the board like let's

39:48

just say you agree where

39:50

he is with his understanding

39:52

of October 7th the Israel

39:55

situation where Palestine's been the

39:57

Gaza and Hamas and You

39:59

know saying hey, we needed

40:01

to do what we currently

40:04

have and it's not great

40:06

And I wish it didn't

40:08

have to happen, but it

40:10

needs to happen well What

40:12

does that mean next if

40:15

Iran tries to fire those

40:17

missiles again at Israel, which

40:19

they did? Is there

40:21

then justification to flatline that

40:23

whole country? And then where does

40:25

it stop if people are

40:27

constantly doing that? Now I

40:30

get it, defend yourself. I

40:32

support defending yourself, believe

40:34

me. However,

40:36

we never seem to get the

40:38

whole truth. From the

40:40

news or from the government or

40:43

any governments so we don't

40:45

know the whole story of why

40:47

anyone's shooting anyone at any

40:49

time and if we're just watching

40:51

Country after country get flatlined

40:53

to the ground and a lot

40:55

of innocent civilians die I'm

40:58

glad that the Dave Smiths of

41:00

the world exist to ask

41:02

a lot of those questions and

41:04

be like hey, can we

41:06

fucking re -examine this like There

41:08

are kids in that rubble, folks.

41:11

Oh yeah. And

41:13

like we were talking

41:15

about excuses and reasons, if

41:18

Iran keeps giving them

41:20

excuses, then

41:22

if Iran keeps giving

41:25

them excuses, then there's

41:27

going to be bombs. It's

41:31

sickening whatever's happening over there.

41:33

At all times, it just

41:35

happens to be. War.

41:38

Yeah. It

41:40

just doesn't look good for humanity. Right?

41:42

We send all those ladies to space.

41:46

We can land rockets. The

41:51

dick, the dick shuttle.

41:53

Yeah. We can land

41:55

all these rockets. Got all this

41:57

tech. We've got,

41:59

you know, 5G

42:01

gigabytes of download

42:03

speeds. Supercomputers,

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quantum computers, yet what,

42:08

more people die a

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43:30

to think we're good

43:32

at making technology improve,

43:35

and then we're

43:37

not getting much

43:40

further on morality, love

43:43

for one another, ethics.

43:46

Only metric that should count, right?

43:50

Well, I think if it's

43:52

one we took really seriously, if

43:55

like the new iPhone coming out,

43:57

was equally as important as the

43:59

new philosophy for humanity and loving

44:01

each other, not to sound like

44:03

a huge hippie, but like if

44:06

we did put some weight on

44:08

that. Yeah,

44:11

I think we'd take a

44:13

real closer look at our

44:15

decision -making that leads to

44:17

people dying. You

44:20

know, I think, is it Tibet? In

44:23

the United States and many countries, we have

44:25

something called the GDP

44:28

right the gross national profit.

44:30

I believe yeah in Tibet.

44:32

I think it's the only

44:34

country that has GDH gross

44:36

domestic happiness Really and I

44:38

think that'd be pretty neat

44:40

if we could get that

44:43

going on everywhere. How do

44:45

they measure it? This you

44:47

know, I'm not a metrics.

44:49

I don't know their metrics,

44:51

but it's It's they're concerned

44:53

about it We're

44:55

not concerned about it

44:58

Yeah, I guess we got

45:00

to leave it of

45:02

that. I mean I didn't

45:04

I didn't Dislike either

45:06

of these guys more after

45:09

this debate I have

45:11

the same respect for them

45:13

I had before and

45:15

I'm I'm not exactly with

45:17

either of them. I

45:20

would say I'm a little

45:22

bit more on Dave's

45:24

side only because of the

45:26

innocent civilians getting killed

45:28

now remember I'm a Stupid

45:30

podcaster. I don't have

45:33

to make those types of

45:35

decisions. Thank goodness. Thank

45:37

God. I would never want

45:39

to do that but

45:41

I you know I get

45:44

their points and It's

45:46

just it's a tricky slippery

45:48

situation and worth a

45:50

listen Think this was an

45:52

important and powerful podcast. That's

45:55

the PPP's Yes

45:57

stamp of approval. It

46:00

was heavy. It was

46:02

heavy, man. I'm

46:04

less inclined to jump

46:06

on either side

46:08

You're more central. He

46:10

had now that I've listened

46:12

to both these reasonable people. Mmm.

46:14

Once again, so you're being

46:16

a bisexual I'm

46:18

a little bisexual today. There we go.

46:21

curious. It's...

46:24

Yeah, I don't know. I would

46:26

be interested here from anybody that was

46:28

listening, like, email over, like, did

46:31

it change your perspective on it? Did

46:33

it change your idea of it? Did

46:35

it have you doubled down? Like,

46:38

where did you end after this

46:40

little debate? And are these

46:42

debates useful? It seems like debate

46:44

should be useful. But

46:46

I don't... know if

46:48

they are, because I've

46:50

got a feeling that

46:52

the best debater just

46:54

wins every time. Just

46:57

takes the credit and moves

46:59

away, assuming there is one.

47:02

And it doesn't mean that that's

47:04

where all the facts are. It's

47:06

just the most compelling argument. The

47:09

listener generally comes to the debate stage

47:11

already made their mind up. That's a good

47:13

point. That's

47:16

a good point. Well, check it out,

47:18

folks. We appreciate you listening. And Pete,

47:20

as always, pleasure, my friend. Thanks for

47:22

tackling this one with me. And

47:24

we will talk to everybody

47:26

next week later. Marketing

47:35

is hard. But

47:37

I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be.

47:39

Let me point something out. You're listening to

47:41

a podcast right now and it's great. You love the

47:43

host, you seek it out and download it, you

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47:47

to the bathroom. Podcasts are

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a pretty close companion. And

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