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products today. I'm getting smaller every

1:06

day. Well, that's silly, honey. People

1:08

just don't get small. There's no

1:10

medical precedent for what's happening to

1:13

you. I simply know that you're

1:15

getting smaller. I shrunk the kids.

1:17

What? And the Thompson kids too,

1:19

they're about this big, they're in

1:21

the backyard. What? Hello

1:29

and welcome to Journey Through Sci-Fi

1:31

where we journey through the many

1:33

sub-genres of science fiction on screen.

1:36

I'm Matt and I'm James and

1:38

in this series we're exploring the

1:40

sci-fi sub-genre of mad science and

1:42

in today's episode we'll be looking

1:44

at accidental shrinking and discussing two

1:46

films where the protagonists all get

1:48

shrunk down. Yeah, returning to the

1:51

concept of shrinking in mad science

1:53

after we looked at it in

1:55

downsizing and doctor cyclops. Or we

1:57

had some comments about downs. Matt.

1:59

What did we get? What did

2:01

people say? A few people were

2:04

just like, what a rubbish film.

2:06

I mean it wasn't great, was

2:08

it? I read it wasn't great.

2:10

I didn't hate it. Anyway, we're

2:12

not talking about downsizing. Downsizing's had

2:14

its time and its time has

2:16

reduced and shrunk down now because

2:19

we're focusing on two other shrinking

2:21

movies. And they are The Incredible

2:23

Shrinking Man from 1957, directed by

2:25

Jack Arnold. And honey, I shrunk

2:27

the kids from 1989, directed by

2:29

Joe Johnston. Yes, both utilizing the

2:32

word shrunk. and shrink. It's a

2:34

good word that isn't it? It's

2:36

a lovely word. It's got that

2:38

K sound. Love it. Yes, more

2:41

shrinking people with science in today's

2:43

episode. Plenty to talk about as

2:45

always. So shall we get into

2:48

our first film to discuss on

2:50

today's episode the incredible

2:52

shrinking man from 1957.

2:54

Yes, let's get stuck into

2:56

the Richard Matheson Jack Arnold

2:59

sci-fi horror story. Prinkingking!

3:02

Prinking! Man! Man! Man!

3:05

You are getting smaller.

3:07

There's no medical

3:10

precedent for what's

3:12

happening to you. I simply

3:15

know that you're getting

3:17

smaller. I want you

3:19

to start thinking about

3:21

us, our marriage. Some

3:23

awful things might happen.

3:26

As long as you've

3:28

got this wedding ring on.

3:30

You've got me. This is Orson,

3:32

well speaking. I have 45 seconds

3:34

to tell you about something. I

3:37

think you'll remember the longest day

3:39

you lived. It's about a man

3:41

named Scott Kerry. A few months

3:43

ago, he was six feet two

3:45

inches tall and weighed 190 pounds.

3:47

Today, he's two inches tall, and

3:49

you can hold him in the

3:51

palm of your hands. Now he

3:53

lives in a world where he

3:55

must fight for his life, a

3:57

world for a friendly house cat.

4:00

is a predatory

4:02

monster. Incredible because

4:05

it's almost beyond

4:07

imagining. Incredible because

4:10

every hour he

4:12

gets smaller and

4:15

smaller. Incredible because

4:17

every moment the

4:20

terror mounts! Okay,

4:30

so the incredible shrinking man, had

4:32

you ever watched this one before?

4:34

Had you heard about it? Did

4:36

you know much about this particular

4:38

one? No, I know it by

4:41

name and reputation, but I hadn't

4:43

seen it. I knew it was

4:45

a Richard Matheson one, but I

4:47

only know his more famous stuff.

4:49

I know I am legend. And

4:51

I think he wrote dual as

4:53

well, didn't he? Yeah, he wrote

4:55

that. He also wrote an amazing

4:58

episode of the Twilight zone. Which

5:00

one? that one. Oh I didn't

5:02

know that was Richard Matheson. I

5:04

haven't actually seen that but obviously

5:06

through my main cultural touchstone the

5:08

Simpsons I am familiar with it.

5:10

Always leads back to the Simpsons.

5:12

All roads lead to the Simpsons.

5:15

Yeah. But yeah it's directed by

5:17

Jack Arnold as well and Jack

5:19

Arnold who directed a number of

5:21

science fiction films in the 50s

5:23

including it came from out of

5:25

space, the Creature from the Black

5:27

Lagoon which is one of my

5:29

favorites. tarantula and of course this

5:32

one the incredible shrinking man. So

5:34

he's got an incredible filmography behind

5:36

him? The incredible filmography man. Yeah.

5:38

Jack Arnold. Yes and this is

5:40

a slightly different kind of shrinking

5:42

to what we looked at previously.

5:44

So in this it's not really

5:46

mad scientists because in doctor Cyclops

5:49

it was a mad scientist shrinking

5:51

people down. In this one and

5:53

in honey I shrunk the kids

5:55

it's all happening accidentally. There's not

5:57

a... There's not people like in

5:59

downsizing. purposefully going and being shrunk

6:01

down to size. This all happens

6:03

because of happenstance and they find

6:06

themselves in quite a predicament. Yeah

6:08

especially in the case of the

6:10

incredible shrinking man isn't it because

6:12

he is quite literally just the

6:14

victim of some unfortunate events and

6:16

it's not even one unfortunate event

6:18

like the film starts with him.

6:20

accidentally sailing into some radioactive mist

6:23

while on holiday with his wife

6:25

but he doesn't he doesn't even

6:27

know it's radioactive mist and she's

6:29

not affected and that even on

6:31

its own is not really a

6:33

problem for him it's just that

6:35

before that he also happened to

6:38

have been sprayed with insecticide while

6:40

he's just how and about and

6:42

the combination the concoction of insecticide

6:44

and radioactivity have caused him this affliction,

6:46

this shrinking affliction that his doctors

6:48

can't really get their heads around.

6:51

They say it's like anti-cancer don't

6:53

they, which seems a bit weird?

6:55

Yeah, I don't know, does cancer

6:57

make your cells grow too rapidly

6:59

out of control? Is that what

7:01

cancer does to you? I don't actually

7:03

know. That's what's implied in this film

7:06

because all of his cell, all of

7:08

his cell, when they say it's an

7:10

anti-cancer, he says that because all of

7:12

Scott cells are... shrinking at the same

7:15

time. So I assume that's what cancer

7:17

does to you, but I don't actually

7:19

know. Yes, an anti-cancer, which sounds... good

7:21

but it's obviously not a very

7:24

happy situation for Scott Kerry in

7:26

this film. No and poor old

7:28

Scott Kerry he's just had this

7:30

lovely boat holiday with his wife

7:32

the intro scene where he's just

7:34

getting a beer and he's having

7:36

a lovely time it's a little

7:38

it's very like 50's relationship isn't

7:40

it but his wife Louise gives

7:43

it back to him as much as she gets

7:45

from him. in terms of their sort of

7:47

like back, back and forth thing at the

7:49

beginning when he's like, can you get me

7:51

a beer? And she's like, I'm not getting

7:53

you a beer. And she does get him a

7:55

beer. But then this radioactive cloud

7:57

comes around and yeah, they're eating.

8:00

nothing of it at the time he just

8:02

goes a bit sparkly he gets a bit

8:04

of glitter on his body and luckily because

8:06

Louise is inside the boat she's fine getting

8:08

the beers so yeah it's and then just

8:10

the idea of it combining with the pesticide

8:13

to create this concoction of mad science is

8:15

quite an interesting one it's just like the

8:17

perfect storm of chemicals to make this shrinking

8:19

shrinking effect Yeah, and the kind of 1950s

8:21

radioactivity fear that you might just, you might

8:23

just bumble through a cloud of radioactive mist

8:26

that will make you incredibly unwell, and that

8:28

just the sort of random misfortune that might

8:30

befall you. And then from that point, you

8:32

know, we get that prologue on the boat

8:34

to introduce it all to give you your

8:36

kind of like McGuffin to get him shrinking.

8:38

I wasn't expecting it to have such a,

8:41

such a good and... creepy I guess not

8:43

or not creepy but unsettling first act first

8:45

20 minutes or so because it's a real

8:47

medical anxiety movie for the first 20 minutes

8:49

or so isn't it he's drinking he's noticed

8:51

he notices it pretty much straight away when

8:53

his clothes don't fit and then there's multiple

8:56

trips to the doctor and his wife is

8:58

supportive I agree, they're quite a nice on-screen

9:00

couple, they're a bit sick comedy and quite

9:02

believable and they've got good chemistry and she's

9:04

sort of supportive but also in that kind

9:06

of like, oh you're probably fine kind of

9:08

way. Like when you've got like an ache

9:11

or a pain and you're a bit like,

9:13

oh I think something's wrong. and your friends

9:15

or your partner might just be like, well,

9:17

you look all right, you know, you're fine.

9:19

And then a few days later, if it's

9:21

still there, they're like, well, go and see

9:23

a doctor then, you know, but that creeping

9:26

fear that you get when you're in that

9:28

position, I think this film captures it incredibly

9:30

well. I just felt really uncomfortable. I don't

9:32

know if it's just like my age as

9:34

I'm getting a little bit older and starting

9:36

to, yeah, the telltale signs that my body

9:38

is that my body is. aging

9:41

and failing me in

9:43

certain ways. I was

9:45

right there with Scott

9:47

on those trips to

9:49

the Doctor and stuff

9:51

and I found it

9:54

really unsettling and unpleasant.

9:56

And it's kind of

9:58

a interesting one for

10:00

us to be looking

10:02

at in Mad Science

10:04

because in the other

10:06

films it's about science

10:09

driving a scientist mad

10:11

about his or hers

10:13

pursuit of scientific advancement.

10:15

But in this, it's

10:17

the actual idea of

10:19

a science that you

10:21

don't understand having an

10:24

effect on you and

10:26

that driving you mad

10:28

like the thoughts about your

10:30

your health and how that's affecting you

10:32

and how is science going to find a

10:34

way like is medical science going to

10:36

find a way to cure you of your

10:38

ailments. How are they going to do

10:40

that when you have no understanding of it?

10:42

And like our protagonist is just caught

10:45

in the midst of all of this. And

10:47

like you say it's it's the horror

10:49

of this comes from not knowing what's going

10:51

to happen to him next. And it's

10:53

a gradual process this shrinking as well, which

10:55

I think really adds to it. It's

10:57

not like a shrink ray like we see

10:59

in Honey and Shrink the Kids. It's happening

11:01

over time and he has no control

11:04

over it. Can he find a way to

11:06

stop it? Is there a way to

11:08

stop it? Are the doctors going to help

11:10

him out? Or is it just going

11:12

to continue to happen? And it's that

11:14

kind of dread that you feel throughout the

11:16

film, which is really unnerving. I bet

11:18

the book captures that really well as well,

11:20

because obviously the thing with the film

11:22

is that it has to move scene by

11:24

scene and you come back to him

11:27

and he's a little bit smaller every time.

11:29

But yeah, that creeping inevitability of the

11:31

shrinking, I think there's some really good

11:33

room for horror there that Richard

11:35

Matheson is really good at as a

11:37

writer. So I would quite like

11:39

to read the book of this having

11:41

seen the film. Yeah, from what

11:43

I understand, the book does kind of

11:46

have that kind of existential dread

11:48

in droves when you're reading it. And

11:50

it's also told in flashbacks throughout

11:52

the first bit, like the initial structure

11:54

the book. So it's his life

11:56

as a small man and

11:58

then it's got sort of back to, oh,

12:00

actually, this is how this happened, this

12:02

is what caused all of this, and

12:05

then telling the story after that. But

12:07

of course, Universal Pictures wanted it to

12:09

be this linear narrative, and I think

12:11

it works much better in this kind

12:13

of linear narrative, because it's the unexpected

12:15

nature of it. Obviously, if you come

12:17

into a see a film called The

12:19

Incredible Shinking Man, it's going to shrink down.

12:21

Yeah, yeah, one thing is for saying. Yeah,

12:24

exactly. But it's that kind of when's it

12:26

going to happen. Is it going to happen?

12:28

like in the next scene or the scene

12:30

after that, but no it's a slow gradual

12:33

process and just even that that moment

12:35

when he's kind of doubting what's

12:37

going on he thinks he's losing his

12:39

mind a bit like oh my shirts

12:41

just come back and they've not properly

12:43

like they've not properly changed they're not

12:46

made the adjustments and I was used

12:48

to be a bit taller than you

12:50

what's going on and all of this

12:53

again the dread is so prominent

12:55

in this film. And you mentioned

12:57

that you referred to existential dread

12:59

in the book that Matheson is

13:01

so good at, but that does

13:03

come across in the film as

13:05

well as particularly the kind of

13:08

existential stuff. There lots of narration

13:10

about man's role in the universe,

13:12

man. conquering the landscape and how

13:14

I how can I conquer this

13:16

landscape that I'm given this reduced

13:18

landscape of my basement when he's

13:20

trapped down there. And then even

13:22

more so the kind of epiphanies

13:25

that he's having at the end

13:27

of the movie as he accepts

13:29

his fate, that Matheson has translated

13:31

the existential crisis of the book

13:33

and managed to put it on

13:35

screen. And I just think that's

13:37

really interesting, just... tonally this film

13:39

is not at all what I

13:41

was expecting because with a name

13:43

like the incredible shrinking man I

13:45

think you expect something a bit

13:47

more bombastic and they do that

13:49

with the with the production design

13:51

absolutely delivers on that but it's the

13:53

the dread and the horror that is

13:55

so well communicated that I just wasn't

13:58

really expecting in a film with that.

14:00

title? Yeah, it's all about fear,

14:02

isn't it? Because he's afraid of

14:04

everything, not just the fear that

14:06

he's going to get when he

14:08

shrinks down to a tiny man

14:10

and is attacked by a giant

14:13

spider. That's sort of the incredible

14:15

fear that he's going to feel

14:17

later. But there's also this kind

14:19

of 50s masculine fear and insecurity

14:21

that's coming through as well, because

14:23

he's very aware of the fact

14:26

that's coming through as well, because

14:28

he's very aware of the fact

14:30

that the fact that he is

14:32

getting smaller and that has a

14:34

direct impact on his relationship with

14:36

his wife so he doesn't feel

14:38

like he is the the man

14:41

of the house especially like a

14:43

film coming out in 1957 he

14:45

is not the the person in

14:47

charge he becomes the dependent he

14:49

becomes small child-like there's an amazing

14:51

scene when you see Louise talking

14:54

to him when he's in the

14:56

chair and just like, oh, how

14:58

small is he now? And then

15:00

it cuts to a shot of

15:02

him and he's like the chair

15:04

is dwarfing him. He looks very,

15:07

very tiny in this massive chair.

15:09

And again, it's just the way

15:11

he reacts to her as well.

15:13

He's like, he's grumpy all the

15:15

time because he feels like he's

15:17

lost his power as a man

15:20

and it's all of that kind

15:22

of theme and subject matter coming

15:24

into the film as well, which

15:26

I wasn't expecting expectinging. It's very,

15:28

it fits with what's happening, the

15:30

kind of the accidental shrinking and

15:32

what, how that would affect him

15:35

mentally as opposed to just physically,

15:37

because it's as much a mental

15:39

transformation for him as it is

15:41

a physical one as the film

15:43

goes on. Yeah, he's emasculated by

15:45

the process, isn't he? and made

15:48

a figure of ridicule as well.

15:50

He has no choice but to

15:52

sell his story to the press

15:54

because they're interested and he can't

15:56

work his job anymore because he's

15:58

too small. So he does that,

16:01

he sells his story, but then

16:03

he's just embarrassed by the

16:05

fame because people are, you know,

16:07

people are interested as they would

16:09

be, but then we're making jokes

16:11

and stuff and he's kind of

16:13

a figure of fun for at

16:15

least some people. And I think

16:17

the whole process is just really

16:19

emasculating for him. And there's other

16:22

like little bits of like...

16:24

emaculation stuff or like him just

16:26

putting so much value in his height

16:28

his specific height like you you already

16:31

mentioned his wife you know noticing that

16:33

his wife isn't isn't so much shorter

16:35

as him anymore but there's even a

16:37

that diversion where he goes off and

16:39

meets the the girl who works in

16:41

the circus and she's she's very very

16:43

small and she always has been I

16:45

mean he seems to be like firing

16:48

up an affair quite quickly you

16:50

know there's they're quite flirtatious and

16:52

he's kind of run away from

16:54

home to join the circus essentially,

16:56

but then he bottles that as well

16:58

because he realizes that she's about, she

17:01

becomes, you know, very slightly taller than

17:03

him after a couple of days because

17:05

he shrunk some more. So again, even

17:07

even meeting someone who can relate to

17:10

him and, you know, possibly provide him

17:12

with some more appropriate emotional support that

17:14

he might need, still, no, forget about

17:17

it, she's taller than me, like I

17:19

can't handle that, like it's too much.

17:21

he feels like there's someone who

17:24

understands his predicament when he meets

17:26

I think her name's Clarice the

17:28

sort of love interest yeah and

17:30

at that point she sort of

17:32

just comes out of nowhere he's

17:34

had a really bad day he's

17:36

like run around the whole of town

17:39

and see like then he's seeing the

17:41

circus performers then heard them talking about

17:43

like the tiny performers and that kind

17:46

of gets in his head in his

17:48

head in his head because the way

17:50

that they're referring to that. He realizes

17:53

he's part of the act as well

17:55

now. He could fit into that performance

17:57

quite easily given how like his sizes.

18:00

seeing Clarice and talking to the Clarice he

18:02

feels a bit more like oh I've kind

18:04

of got my power my strength back as

18:06

a man I am a little bit taller

18:08

than you like she says oh you're a

18:11

bit taller than me and he's suddenly like

18:13

oh great and he's got positivity back he

18:15

decides to write his book and his whole

18:18

outlook changes because he's he's not

18:20

he doesn't feel alone in the world

18:22

in that case anymore and he's got

18:24

someone who can identify of a situation

18:27

of a situation of a situation Yeah,

18:29

and then he's like, oh, I'm a bit

18:31

smaller now. Uh, no. But I suppose he's

18:34

also got the fear of how much smaller

18:36

am I going to get? And it's

18:38

that kind of dread again that

18:40

he's got in his head. But he

18:42

could have still been friends with

18:44

Clarice, but there's definitely something

18:46

going on there. It's very

18:49

flirtatious, like you say, it's...

18:51

he's had a bit of an argument

18:53

with his wife at that point and

18:55

then they don't really go into detail

18:57

about the impact of that relationship or

19:00

whether Louise knows about it but it does

19:02

seem if it had been gone on for longer

19:04

and they've both been about the same

19:06

size that would have resulted in some

19:08

sort of an affair. Yeah, definitely. I

19:11

think that's the way it was going

19:13

is what it felt like anyway. And

19:15

I just thought it was a strange sequence

19:17

because it came out of it. The whole

19:19

kind of... I guess what was strange actually

19:21

was the way he just went back to

19:23

his wife afterwards. I thought he'd kind of

19:25

run away from home to join the circus

19:27

and then yeah he just goes straight back

19:29

to his wife. So he kind of got

19:31

the first half of the movie as him

19:33

becoming roughly child size and everything going along

19:35

with that. And then the second half of

19:37

the movie it very rapidly escalates. He actually

19:39

gets secure doesn't he? About halfway through when

19:41

he stops at about... I think I think

19:43

they say 36 inches but that cure obviously

19:45

doesn't take and then he continues

19:48

to drink in the second half

19:50

the movie is getting really really

19:52

small ultimately ultimately microscopic disappearing or

19:55

you know going going going into

19:57

antman quantum mania yeah that was

19:59

something wasn't quite expecting with this.

20:01

I thought there would be some sort

20:04

of miracle cure by the end of

20:06

this film, but it doesn't come to

20:08

pass. But that's sort of like very

20:11

much at the end of the film

20:13

and the end of the story. But

20:15

there's no sort of mad scientist character

20:18

in this either. Like there's no one

20:20

who's got this kind of shrinking ray.

20:22

It's all about... nature and technology was

20:25

not even technology it's like nature becomes

20:27

the antagonist a little bit and he

20:29

is just surviving in this world that

20:31

is suddenly much bigger much bigger and

20:34

much more dangerous for him so it's

20:36

all of that sort of latter half

20:38

of the film where it gets quite

20:41

interesting and the first half is very

20:43

interesting as well but it becomes more

20:45

action packed when he's down to sort

20:48

of dull house size and it's how

20:50

can he survive in a world which

20:52

basically out to get it. Yeah, I

20:55

thought the first half was the more

20:57

interesting half, but then the second half

20:59

delivers on all of the stuff that

21:02

I was expecting the film to be

21:04

and it becomes the film I was

21:06

expecting it to be with the incredible,

21:09

you know, production design, basically just making

21:11

giant versions of everything in the Kerry's

21:13

house or in the basement rather that

21:15

he can play with and then turning

21:18

it into a real adventure movie. Like

21:20

you say, it's man versus nature. is

21:22

I mean a lot of it is

21:25

not natural is it he's scaling walls

21:27

but it's not it's not a cliff

21:29

it's not nature it's like a work

21:32

bench or something the only nature is

21:34

the spider is there anything else I

21:36

don't think there's nothing alive in the

21:39

basement oh the cat as course is

21:41

what is what sends him down the

21:43

scene yes so the cat comes this

21:46

very dangerous figure in Scott's life whereas

21:48

before it was just his household pet

21:50

and then now it's this terrifying giant

21:53

feline that is gonna it's gonna eat

21:55

him basically like a mouse. Yeah and

21:57

the spider of course the spider that

21:59

has played by tarantula just to make

22:02

sure that you are absolutely terrified of

22:04

it. I mean, do you get wild

22:06

tarantulas just calling around the door? I

22:09

don't know. Probably not. Did you read

22:11

about some of the production stuff about

22:13

the tarantulas? No. Tarantulas are plural. So

22:16

initially, I think in the book it's

22:18

a black widow that they mention, but

22:20

they realize the black widow would not

22:23

look good on screen. It's too small.

22:25

No, so then they ended up using,

22:27

yeah, they had to use several tarantulas

22:30

and they ended up using, I think,

22:32

24, but that was sadly because they

22:34

turned up the overhead lamps too high.

22:37

Wow! Yes, so they got through quite

22:39

a few tarantulas in the making of

22:41

the film and they were directing them

22:43

with little puffs of air apparently. So

22:46

I think it's something that Arnold used

22:48

in tarantula as well when he put

22:50

that film. I wonder how many tarantula

22:53

is he murdered. But I was confused

22:55

by this as well because there's also

22:57

been stuff there's also stuff on the

23:00

internet which says that this tarantula is

23:02

the same tarantula that's used in his

23:04

film tarantula and it's like the same

23:07

famous spider in both of them. But

23:09

apparently that's not true, but I would

23:11

have loved it if that was the

23:14

case. I've read somewhere that the cat

23:16

is the same cat that's used in

23:18

Breakfast and Tiffany's, but again I don't

23:21

know if that's one of those wild

23:23

rumours that they're like, there's a cat

23:25

in this film, it's definitely the cat

23:27

from this other film. Oh wow, superstar

23:30

cat, okay, fair enough. Superstar cat, could

23:32

have been a superstar tarantula, but probably

23:34

not. I mean if they got through

23:37

24 tarantulas as well, is definitely the

23:39

one tarantula that made it through both

23:41

of both of those films. I mean

23:44

it's possible that one did I suppose

23:46

I don't know that's really horrible It's

23:48

very morbid. It's the last tarantula probably

23:51

the last tarantula that got used on

23:53

the movie tarantula is the first tarantula

23:55

to die in the production of the

23:58

incredible drinking man. I don't like spiders,

24:00

but I'm trying to be better about

24:02

it. I'm like, because I just hate

24:05

like flying bugs more than I hate

24:07

spiders. So I'm trying to like reorient

24:09

my view, my viewpoint of the spiders

24:12

in my house is like they're my

24:14

guys, they work for me, they're my

24:16

employees, you know, so we're all good.

24:18

So like I'm buddies with them now,

24:21

but I, you know, a torrentialer roaming

24:23

around in my house. That would be

24:25

a bigger problem for me. Yeah, that's

24:28

a bit too much. What scares you

24:30

about spiders in particular. I just, I

24:32

don't even know if it's necessarily fear,

24:35

but a visceral discuss all over my

24:37

body when I see a spider move

24:39

that I don't like. I think Mary

24:42

Wild on Mike's podcast once said... The

24:44

Evolution of Horror. Yeah, I hope I'm

24:46

quoting her correctly. I think she once

24:49

said that there's something about their movement

24:51

that is pneumatic. Whereas like our movement

24:53

is muscular, we move because our muscles

24:56

move our limbs and they move their

24:58

limbs using sort of a more numatic

25:00

system rather than muscles on a skeleton.

25:02

So it looks uncanny to us. And

25:05

when she said that, I was like,

25:07

oh my God, that's totally it. So

25:09

I don't know if that's true, but

25:12

that is what I've internalised as why

25:14

they grossed me out. But yeah, now

25:16

they're just they're just my guys. They

25:19

live in the conservatory and they catch

25:21

all the bugss. I love that sentiment.

25:23

They're just my guys. They're here to

25:26

help me out. That's what they're doing.

25:28

How would you feel about a tarantula

25:30

in your house? Not one that's six

25:33

times the size of you, let's say,

25:35

just one normal tarantula roaming around. I

25:37

mean, I wouldn't love it. I'd be

25:40

pretty freaked out. I think it depends

25:42

where it was and how quickly I

25:44

spotted it. Like if it was crawling

25:46

over me when I was asleep, then

25:49

I would properly freak out. in the

25:51

corner of a room and I had

25:53

enough time to think about how I'm

25:56

going to deal with it, that would

25:58

be a different story I think. Yeah,

26:00

I think that's very enough. Now what

26:03

about if you had to like... battle

26:05

a tarantula that was about six times

26:07

your size and you're trapped in your

26:10

own basement and you're armed only with

26:12

a pin. This is not practical. This

26:14

is not something I'm getting away from.

26:17

I have no experience with using sharp

26:19

objects to kill giant beasts so I

26:21

think I would and also that tarantula

26:24

is terrifying in that moment. It's little

26:26

like beady mouth and the little flappy...

26:28

Do you not think you get fired

26:30

up by thinking about the existential nature

26:33

of humankind's or specifically mankind's ability to

26:35

conquer the natural environment? Would that not

26:37

like give you the juice to be

26:40

like I'm gonna I'm gonna stab a

26:42

pin in this chest? I like to

26:44

think it would but also I think

26:47

that if I were to survive it

26:49

would be because I'm really really hungry.

26:51

He was? Well I mean Scott does

26:54

get very hungry. cutting it, I need

26:56

to get some more food and you're

26:58

in my way and I think that

27:01

might tip the scales for me. Yeah,

27:03

I can see, I can picture you

27:05

tackling a spider to get a big

27:08

piece of bread that you want. Yes,

27:10

anyone standing in between me and bread

27:12

is not a good look for them.

27:14

Including giant tarantulas. But it's not just

27:17

a tarantula that's out to get Scott

27:19

though, is it? It's everything in this

27:21

world suddenly becomes a threat. And he's

27:24

kind of using his ingenuity to sort

27:26

of figure stuff out and figure out

27:28

ways to survive. So the boiler starts

27:31

leaking and he starts drowning at one

27:33

point. And then he's got to scale

27:35

this massive crate as well. So he

27:38

has to create. a climbing hook and

27:40

then hoist his way up and all

27:42

of these things are just, he's constantly

27:45

battling the environment around him. So it's

27:47

not just these predators which are out

27:49

to get him. it's everything and even

27:52

when he's trying to get the cheese

27:54

he's got to try and figure out

27:56

how to get the cheese without setting

27:58

out setting off the mouse trap. Yeah

28:01

that was a good scene and incredible

28:03

attention in that scene. Really like really

28:05

thought there was moments where I was

28:08

almost convinced he was gonna splatter himself

28:10

even though I know he's the protagonist

28:12

movie would have to stop but like

28:15

he's looking at it he understands it's

28:17

a mouse trap. and he understands what's

28:19

triggering the most trap and he's still

28:22

like yeah but I want to get

28:24

it. He's like I can totally see

28:26

how mice are feeling it he knows

28:29

exactly yeah crazy stuff and you know

28:31

when they're doing the drowning bit as

28:33

well that was quite an interesting one

28:36

because apparently the way that they did

28:38

the giant drops of water landing they

28:40

were getting I think they had condoms

28:43

filled with water on a treadmill so

28:45

they could drop in sequence I've read

28:47

here. Hang on, so how are the,

28:49

how, oh I see, right, so they're

28:52

just like lining them up on the

28:54

treadmill and they fall off the back

28:56

of the treadmill and go plop? I

28:59

think so, yeah. In front of the

29:01

camera. So it's just timing that exactly

29:03

to the moments and things like that,

29:06

but then obviously you've got all of

29:08

the moments with Scott which are just

29:10

over like put over the film so

29:13

you can see him running around and

29:15

all of that stuff, but still the

29:17

timing on it. For a film in

29:20

the 50s, this is all, again, the

29:22

mad science of filmmaking, all of that

29:24

stuff that's being used. Yeah, the water

29:27

drops are very good, actually, just for

29:29

the sort of various millitude of it,

29:31

because they look like drops. It's a

29:33

kind of an underrated thing, I guess,

29:36

because you don't necessarily think about it,

29:38

because it looks quite natural, but to

29:40

achieve the look of a drop. when

29:43

it's the volume of a bucket, a

29:45

large bucket of water without it looking

29:47

like a bucket has been dumped and

29:50

keeping that smooth roundness, that's really cleverly

29:52

done. And it's all really important for

29:54

making you feel that you're in this

29:57

miniature world with Scott. any other bits

29:59

obviously the tarantula was a stressful scene

30:01

were there any other moments in that

30:04

sort of last half of the film

30:06

when you were really stressed out for

30:08

Scott? Yeah the the drowned you just

30:11

mentioned the drowning scene I mean that

30:13

was that was really good that was

30:15

really well shot and we hadn't seen

30:17

Scott alongside a full-size human for a

30:20

really long time so you know there's

30:22

other ways to... to judge scale that

30:24

he could fit inside a little matchbox

30:27

but nothing quite compares to seeing him

30:29

on screen with a human character. So

30:31

seeing him... you know fighting for his

30:34

life against drowning and pulling himself out

30:36

of the water and then crying out

30:38

for help and then just having his

30:41

voice so so down low in the

30:43

mix like and next to his brother's

30:45

foot so he's just like oh no

30:48

this is this is this is terrible

30:50

like he's so close to being saved

30:52

but they can't hear him yeah it's

30:55

always when you've got the and also

30:57

just how loud everything else is as

30:59

well you talked about his tiny little

31:01

voice but then the booming footsteps and

31:04

just the the frustration seeing his brother

31:06

come down the steps and also like

31:08

Louise is saying oh I think he's

31:11

he's still out there somewhere she kind

31:13

of knows he's not gone but it's

31:15

just this No one seeing him, he's

31:18

too small and that's the thing with

31:20

these shrinking films. You've got someone so

31:22

tiny, really sort of desperately screaming, trying

31:25

to be heard, but you know it's

31:27

never going to happen because it's just

31:29

not going to work, it's going to

31:32

get stepped on, it's voice is never

31:34

going to carry. Got the little squeaky

31:36

voice. The little chipmunk, tiny voice. Can

31:48

you fix it? There. I'll get

31:50

a pumper down here tomorrow. Where's

32:02

your drink? It's right about there,

32:04

it must be closed. But yeah,

32:06

this whole final thing was just

32:09

like so action-packed, so dramatic, when

32:11

he's trying to dive over the

32:13

cavern, the cavernous bit as well,

32:15

he's on the paint stick, and

32:17

when he sees the outside of

32:19

the garden as well, and he

32:22

sees that bird, and the kind

32:24

of... the moment when he realizes

32:26

that... that little piece of cake

32:28

that he has isn't big enough

32:30

for a bird to even want.

32:32

So he's kind of like, oh

32:34

well, just drops it. So all

32:37

those moments are just so, you

32:39

can just see his desperation in

32:41

everything that's happening. And you just,

32:43

because again, like I said earlier,

32:45

I was like, well, he's gonna

32:47

have to be shrunk, he's gonna

32:50

have to be turned back to

32:52

normal size at the ends. That's

32:54

what should happen. But we don't

32:56

get that kind of resolution. It's

32:58

this. bleak look at where he

33:00

kind of switches the bleakness a

33:03

little bit in his perspective on

33:05

his predicament. But outside looking in,

33:07

it's just this terror that this

33:09

shrinking is going to keep happening.

33:11

How is he going to survive

33:13

in this world? Yeah, but he

33:16

finds a sort of philosophical piece

33:18

with it, which was an odd

33:20

one, a very spiritual piece he

33:22

finds, isn't it? He just decides

33:24

that... you know there's a whole

33:26

universe out there and you know

33:29

man is small anyway and God

33:31

still knows he exists and he

33:33

does still exist so he's gonna

33:35

face this inevitable microscopic shrinking and

33:37

see what happens. So yeah it

33:39

leaves it open to this kind

33:41

of sense of wonder of where

33:44

Scott's going to end up and

33:46

how small he's going to be.

33:48

How did you feel about that

33:50

ending then? Did you sort of

33:52

feel like it was a good

33:54

ending for the film? Yeah, I

33:57

thought it was a great ending.

33:59

I mean I wasn't really expecting

34:01

him to get back to full-size.

34:03

Like things were just getting increasingly

34:05

more disastrous for him. And it

34:07

was clear in the sort of

34:10

latter scenes of the film that

34:12

the victories for him were becoming

34:14

smaller and smaller as he became smaller

34:16

and smaller. So there was no big

34:19

win on the way off the scale

34:21

of becoming full-size again. You know, for

34:23

him it was... just defeating that spider.

34:25

And you know even when he defeats

34:28

the spider I was thinking like well

34:30

there's going to be more spiders like

34:32

you have to constantly be fighting spiders

34:34

or ants or whatever it is like

34:36

you know but it's a big win

34:39

for him and yeah so I didn't

34:41

really expect there to be a happy

34:43

ending for him and then I thought it

34:45

was a very powerful kind of epiphany

34:47

that he has it really you know,

34:50

not to compare it to the

34:52

only other Richard Matheson work that

34:54

I'm familiar with, but it is

34:56

very similar to I am legend,

34:58

that kind of epiphany that he

35:00

has in the face of a sort

35:02

of, I guess, tragic ending. Yeah, I

35:05

really like the ending as well. I

35:07

think it was just that kind of

35:09

acceptance of his fate. I think just

35:11

him kind of coming to peace

35:13

with what was happening and

35:16

just... just accepting it all. I think

35:18

it was just the perfect way to

35:20

end this. And like you say, I think

35:22

the way you worded it a minute

35:24

ago, the small, like his winds become

35:26

smaller and smaller, he's not after this

35:28

big win, it's just all the little things

35:31

that are contributing to him,

35:33

feeling that little bit better about

35:35

his predicament and what he's

35:37

doing and the next thing. Yeah,

35:39

it's just, I was very very...

35:41

impressed with this film and I

35:43

was totally in it for the

35:45

entirety of it. It's exactly the

35:47

kind of 50 sci-fi I love.

35:49

It's like a very sort of

35:52

concise compact story but such

35:54

an interesting way of making

35:57

comments about like your place in

35:59

the world. how you look at

36:01

your environment and just the way

36:03

that it's not just about like

36:05

a fear of science per se.

36:08

It's a kind of, it gets

36:10

a bit more introspective than just

36:12

the kind of, the usual mad

36:14

science kind of thing where we're

36:16

looking at where it's the hubris

36:18

of man and just seeking that

36:21

extra technology and that advancement constantly.

36:23

This is again, kind of like

36:25

the hubris of man, this guy

36:27

who doesn't... fully understand how good

36:29

he's got it until it's all

36:31

gone, but then accepting his fate.

36:34

I think there's something quite beautiful

36:36

about all of that. Yeah, it's

36:38

more introspective than we've been seeing

36:40

recently on the show. Yeah, yeah,

36:42

I loved it. So, speaking of

36:44

other small films, other shrinking films,

36:47

shall we move on to our

36:49

second film of today's podcast, honey,

36:51

I shrunk the kids. Listeners,

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39:32

forward/journey through sci-fi. It was a quiet Saturday

39:34

morning. Salinsky! Give it a rest. It's Saturday!

39:37

Professor Wayne Zalinsky was hard at work on

39:39

his new invention. This thing works. He'll put

39:41

us right up there with the invention of

39:43

electricity. That didn't quite work. Did you get

39:45

the machine to work? A few more bucks

39:47

to get out. Then something quite unexpected happened.

39:50

We're the kids. I haven't seen them since...

39:52

I left this morning

39:54

it shrunk the kids

39:56

Nick what happened it

39:58

works Diane I got

40:01

something real important to

40:03

tell you are you

40:05

trying to tell me

40:07

the machine works do the

40:09

kids know well yeah the

40:11

kids know that's great it's not

40:13

that great why I shrunk the

40:15

kids and the Thompson kids too they're

40:18

about this big threw them out

40:20

with the trash what they're in the

40:22

backyard Walt Disney Pictures presents the

40:24

last frontier Jack and fix

40:26

us right

40:28

Nick I'll tell

40:30

you their

40:33

size a

40:35

jungle out

40:38

there now

40:40

while the professor is

40:43

looking for the kids just got

40:45

to keep our eyes open they're

40:47

taking matters into their own hands

40:49

they better

40:51

behave so this is

40:53

a very similar movie

40:55

in a lot of ways to

40:57

the incredible shrinking man and it kind

41:00

of does all the exact same

41:02

things in the way that it delivers

41:04

on its shrinking premise and the

41:06

production design but I guess tonally it

41:08

couldn't be more different I suppose I think

41:10

I think this is a film that

41:12

you go into knowing full well those kids

41:14

are going to return to full size

41:16

by the end of the movie regardless of

41:18

what else you might know about the

41:20

film they better do they better do or

41:22

else is going to be lots of

41:25

terrified kids growing up yeah were you a

41:27

terrified kid when you watch this for

41:29

the first time no no I love this

41:31

I probably I think I was watching

41:33

this from you know from an age where

41:35

I was too young to even like

41:37

realize why it might be a scary concept

41:39

for a kid and just sort of enjoying

41:41

the adventure side of it this is

41:43

a weird one because this is a film

41:45

I reckon I've seen it you know

41:47

seen it in double figures in terms of

41:49

number times I've seen it but not seen

41:51

it in well over 20 years like you

41:53

know under the age of 10 I think

41:55

I would have been last summer watching I

41:57

had a real 90s flashback of this I

42:00

was watching it. Oh yeah. And I

42:02

realized I don't think I've ever seen

42:04

the beginning of this film? Okay. Why

42:06

not? Well the reason is I think

42:08

we must have taped it off the

42:10

TV. Oh sure. Yeah and missed the

42:12

first 10-15 minutes. So I had no

42:14

idea about all of the sort of

42:16

like the setup stuff beforehand. So, watching

42:19

it this time, I was like,

42:21

okay, this makes some sense now.

42:23

Why don't you give us a

42:25

little summary of the movie and

42:28

start with the bits that you

42:30

had never seen before? Well, in

42:32

terms of the film, you've got

42:35

Wayne Zalinsky, who is this scientist,

42:37

this quirky bumbling scientist who is

42:39

working on this shrinking ray. Because

42:42

he's putting so much work to

42:44

the shrinking ray, he's kind of

42:46

neglecting his family, his relationship with

42:48

his wife, and all of these things are contributing

42:51

to what will happen later on in the

42:53

film. So he has to go off to

42:55

a conference, his kids are there looking after

42:57

the house, they're supposed to get things

43:00

tidy because his wife is finally

43:02

returning to the home after they've

43:04

had an argument. I'd missed all

43:06

of that bit when I first

43:08

watched it. I had no idea

43:10

about this argument stuff. Then what

43:12

happens is the neighbours next door.

43:14

They've also got some interesting family

43:16

dynamics going on. They're supposed to go

43:18

on a big trip. But what ends

43:21

up happening is the neighbours, one of

43:23

the neighbours accidentally throws a baseball

43:25

into the top window of the

43:27

Salinsky's house. That sets off the

43:29

shrinking ray. All of the kids become

43:31

tiny and then the parents don't

43:34

know what's happened to them and

43:36

it's about the parents realising. that

43:38

the shrinking ray has worked trying

43:40

to find their kids and the

43:42

kids trying to find their parents

43:44

so they can be turned back

43:46

to normal size. Yeah, this is

43:48

another accidental shrinking story because it

43:50

was never Wayne's intention that the

43:52

kids got shrunk, but he is

43:54

a deliberate intentional scientist and inventor.

43:56

He's a type of mad scientist

43:59

that we haven't. seen much of,

44:01

and I wonder if we've seen any

44:03

films so far, that kind of fall

44:05

into this category. He's a tinkerer, isn't

44:07

he? He's a... He's kind of more

44:10

like a hobbyist, but he is doing

44:12

this professionally because there's this detour where

44:14

he's going to NASA, I think, to

44:17

try and sell them on his shrinking

44:19

way, as a means of... taking stuff

44:21

into space, you know, in a more

44:23

cost-effective way, and he's quit his job

44:26

to do that. So it is kind

44:28

of his profession, but he's there, but

44:30

there's an element of amateur mad scientist

44:33

about him as well. He does it

44:35

all from home. He doesn't have a

44:37

lab, you know, like, he's not like,

44:39

you know, dark man, about him and

44:42

he's, and... to kind of add to

44:44

that, because it's a family movie, you've

44:46

also got his youngest kid who is

44:49

like a miniature version of him who

44:51

is also a tinker and makes a

44:53

miniature shrinker and you know has his

44:56

own sort of stuff. So he's a

44:58

bit more in the kind of Doc

45:00

Brown Wallace from Wallace and Gromit mold

45:02

of a tinker type of mad scientist

45:05

that we haven't seen so much of.

45:07

That's a really great comparison to sort

45:09

of Wallace and Gromit of it because...

45:12

he's got lots of little inventions around

45:14

the house as well hasn't he's done

45:16

something to his clock which has like

45:18

a Felix the cat clock and he's

45:21

done something to that he's created something

45:23

so that the dog can get its

45:25

treats quite easily yeah like a conveyor

45:28

belt sort of thing yeah there's lots

45:30

of things around the house which is

45:32

supposed to make things more efficient and

45:34

helpful but at the same time the

45:37

house is an absolute bombsite it's just

45:39

an absolute mess and you see that

45:41

very quickly Yes, it's all very haphazard.

45:44

There's no, there, like I said, he

45:46

doesn't have that clean laboratory and that

45:48

is part of the reason why things

45:50

go wrong. I mean, it's not all,

45:53

it's not his fault, you know, we

45:55

get this. baseball thrown in and he

45:57

got some nosy kids who shouldn't really

46:00

be up in the attic I suppose

46:02

but you know the premise of the

46:04

movie wouldn't happen if Wayne was a

46:07

more professional scientist basically right I mean

46:09

that you know to be fair that's

46:11

true of all the mad scientists that

46:13

we look at this series I would

46:16

say but he's he's trying to be

46:18

a professional but he's not sinister as

46:20

well like the other mad scientist we've

46:23

seen yeah he's like I said earlier

46:25

he's bumbling he's making mistakes he's not

46:27

he's not professional as you said and

46:29

all of these kind of factors make

46:32

him more endearing as a character so

46:34

you can get on his side and

46:36

that helps this become a family-friendly film

46:39

because he's not this maniacal scientist tinkering

46:41

away trying to plot different ways to

46:43

turn his children into tiny ant-sized creatures

46:45

he is just someone who is trying

46:48

to do his best but he doesn't

46:50

have all of the tools to help

46:52

him like all the time so he's

46:55

he's doing his best where he can

46:57

but he keeps messing up yeah and

46:59

who better for the bumbling fool mad

47:02

scientists than Rick Moranis what did you

47:04

think of Rick Moranis when you're a

47:06

good? Oh he was great but this

47:08

this is the film that I remember

47:11

him remember him the most from more

47:13

than ghostbusters because I think we ghostbusters

47:15

Again, depending on what I taped off

47:18

the TV, I think I was more

47:20

familiar with the second Ghostbusters. So, not

47:22

as much Rick Moranis in that. I

47:24

think he's in it a little bit,

47:27

is he in Ghostbusters too? And he's

47:29

not, and he's not the same show,

47:31

any of the Ghostbusters, I suppose, as

47:34

I'll say, exactly. And he did this,

47:36

I think, off the back of doing

47:38

space balls, so his star was really

47:40

rising at the time. Yeah, I mean,

47:43

he had a pretty incredible incredible run,

47:45

in the 80s. Was he was he

47:47

S&L as well? I think he was,

47:50

yeah, he seems like he'd be part

47:52

of that batch, doesn't he? I know

47:54

he's Canadian, I think, have we talked

47:57

about the kind of like dominance of...

47:59

in American comedy in the kind of

48:01

70s and 80s. He's part of that

48:03

wave of people along with like I

48:06

think John Candy is Canadian as well.

48:08

Candy I think was also considered for

48:10

this role I think at one point. Yeah

48:12

I think it was initially written with Chevy

48:15

Chase in mind. As the as

48:17

the Wayne Salinsky. Yeah so I

48:19

think it was going to be

48:21

a vehicle for him at one

48:23

point. but also interestingly it was

48:25

the story was written by Stuart

48:27

Gordon and Brian Yasuna and I

48:29

think Ed Naha was in there

48:31

somewhere but Stuart Gordon his last

48:34

film before this was Reanimator. Yeah,

48:36

Brian Usner I think worked on

48:38

reanimates, but I know his name

48:40

from that and from beyond as

48:42

well. So this was supposed to

48:44

be a Stuart Gordon directed

48:46

film, which might have given it a

48:48

completely different kind of tone, potentially, but

48:51

Stuart Gordon fell sick just before this,

48:53

so hence why they got Joe Johnston

48:55

involved in the end. Joe Johnston who

48:57

would go on to do like the

49:00

Rocketeer, gumani, which this feels a lot

49:02

like it's the early sort of gumangee

49:04

kind of stuff, drastic pop-free. Captain America

49:06

all these kind of films that Joe

49:09

Johnson's gone on to do but I

49:11

just there's something about the fact it

49:13

was Stuart Gordon who has like a

49:15

mad science film in the form of

49:17

reanimator penning the idea for this

49:20

one. Yeah yeah that's interesting yeah but

49:22

I mean he was always writing it

49:24

for Disney I suppose so it was

49:26

I would imagine it was never going

49:28

to quite go down the the reanimator

49:31

route. Well it's got some terrifying bits.

49:33

Yeah, for sure, yeah, let's talk about

49:35

them. Which bits, which bits stick out

49:37

for you? Because like I said, I,

49:39

you know, I remember this being a

49:41

fun adventure movie. Was there stuff in

49:44

this that scared you as a kid?

49:46

I don't think it really, I think

49:48

watching it this time round, there were

49:50

more things when I was like, wow,

49:52

why didn't that freak me out as

49:55

a kid? Like the giant aunt

49:57

is pretty terrifying. It's pretty terrifying.

50:00

grotesque about a giant ant though

50:02

at the same time. Yes, of

50:04

course, yeah, similar to the giant.

50:06

It's the mandibles. Yeah. But then

50:08

they have a giant scorpion in

50:10

there as well, which is terrifying.

50:12

But I was like, did they

50:14

have scorpion? We talked about tarantulas

50:17

being in American basements. scorpions. Are

50:19

they in sort of like most

50:21

backyards? I don't know. I mean,

50:23

America's massive, isn't it? And the

50:25

wildlife of America is incredibly diverse.

50:27

So, I mean, why not? You

50:29

certainly get scorpions in the more

50:31

western, the desity bits of America.

50:34

This doesn't feel like it's set

50:36

in that sort of place? I

50:38

don't know. But yeah, I mean,

50:40

you get some scorpions out there.

50:42

So like the size difference between

50:44

a scorpion and an ant. I

50:46

don't know if that's quite right.

50:48

sizes, you can get absolutely tiny

50:51

little scorpions. I'm going to have

50:53

nightmares. Yeah. I don't think we've

50:55

got any. I love it. I'm

50:57

not afraid of tarantulas apparently, but

50:59

tiny little scorpions. I'm terrified. Yeah,

51:01

scorpions are kind of bastards though,

51:03

aren't they? They've got like a

51:05

poisonous stinger and stuff. Like a

51:08

tarantula essentially just wants to eat

51:10

insects, I suppose. And it might

51:12

bite you. Actually. if I can,

51:14

especially if they're poisonous. But they've

51:16

got wasps. They've got bees, not

51:18

wasps. There's like a giant bee

51:20

as well. And that bit, I

51:22

think is terrifying because if you're

51:25

trying to hold on for dear

51:27

life, holding a massive bee, and

51:29

knowing that the only other two

51:31

people who know that you're that

51:33

size that you can contact with,

51:35

could be like miles away from

51:37

you because you're gripping a bee.

51:39

when I was watching it I

51:42

was so shocked that they managed

51:44

to find each other again because

51:46

I was like how would that

51:48

work and how would they survive

51:50

that kind of fall from a

51:52

bee it was just yeah it

51:54

was a lot yeah it's good

51:57

tension I thought that as well

51:59

as soon as they got on

52:01

the B. I was like, well,

52:03

these kids are going to end

52:05

up. They could be in some

52:07

trouble here, back in the hive

52:09

with, you know, a million other

52:11

bees. That's it. And they've got

52:14

a scene, so the youngest of

52:16

Rick Moranis' kids in this falls

52:18

into a bunch of pollen. and

52:20

that would be my worst nightmare

52:22

because I've got allergies like that

52:24

kid. Yeah, but he's fine, so

52:26

you'd be fine. Yeah, he says

52:28

he's fine. He still sneezes though.

52:31

And he's like, oh, he does

52:33

sneeze. He's too big for me

52:35

to, and then he takes a

52:37

big whiff of it. I'm like,

52:39

what are you doing? He's an

52:41

unreliable narrator, isn't he? He's very

52:43

savvy though, getting the neighbour to

52:45

almost pay him to do his

52:48

lawn. like used the normal, brilliant.

52:50

This guy's, he knows what he's

52:52

doing. Yeah, yeah, he's a bright

52:54

little kid. He's got those Salinsky's

52:56

jeans, you know, it's a smart

52:58

family. But there's something about the

53:00

fact that the shrinking machine just

53:02

goes off on its own, basically.

53:05

Well, I mean, it gets hit

53:07

by a baseball, but that kind

53:09

of technology being that. unpredictable that

53:11

they could just shrink a bunch

53:13

of kids. I think that's that's

53:15

quite a terrifying prospect. And especially

53:17

if you've got a character like

53:19

Wayne Zalinsky just tinkering in his

53:22

attic, creating this crazy technology and

53:24

then seeing what happens afterwards. It

53:26

does make you think like what

53:28

other tinkering scientists are making in

53:30

random buildings around the world. illegal

53:32

improvised firearms I imagine but yeah

53:34

it's a what could they what

53:37

could they have in there like

53:39

it's like primer as well than

53:41

they're built in a shed and

53:43

stuff but yeah the baseball breaks

53:45

the shrink rate doesn't it because

53:47

the shrink rate doesn't work the

53:49

shrink rate is faulty or poorly

53:51

designed by Wayne and it actually

53:54

just makes everything explode when he

53:56

turns on it. So he's essentially,

53:58

he's actually built a death ray

54:00

at home. But it's not what

54:02

he's trying to build, but he's

54:04

built an incredibly effective death ray

54:06

that just explodes anything it targets.

54:08

And there's some sort of laser

54:11

in the mechanism that when blocked

54:13

unintentionally by the baseball, it actually

54:15

makes it into a functioning shrink

54:17

rate, a functioning shrink rate that

54:19

as you say just starts firing

54:21

off at anything and everything in

54:23

the way. But it's that accidental

54:25

discovery as well, which is just

54:28

how a lot of... big discoveries

54:30

have made those. There's something you don't

54:32

quite think about and then, again,

54:34

happenstance comes into play and suddenly

54:36

you've created a shrinking ray out

54:38

of nowhere. Yeah, nobody ever accounts for

54:40

the neighbor boy with the baseball. You've

54:43

got to watch out for those neighbors.

54:45

So how else does the shrinking work

54:47

then? So it shoots them and then,

54:49

and then what is the process of

54:52

shrinking, I guess, in Honey I shrunk

54:54

the kids and the result? Well they

54:56

just get zapped instantly to miniature proportions.

54:58

It's not like the incredible shrinking man

55:00

where it happens over time. It's an

55:03

instantaneous ray where they suddenly become

55:05

smaller than an ant and then you

55:07

just have to try and track whatever

55:09

you've just shrunk back down. And that

55:11

first scene is amazing isn't it where

55:13

they are in the attic so there's

55:15

a chair and the thinking couch have

55:17

also been shrunk. I think with some

55:19

other bits and bobs, but straight away

55:21

we get this, we're brought into this

55:23

amazing production design of the film, which

55:25

is basically everything in the Salinsky house

55:27

and back garden recreated in giant's eyes so that

55:29

the kid actors can interact with it and appear

55:31

to be tiny. And there's also some good camera

55:33

work complementing that as well. Lots of, you know,

55:35

just shots taken from the floor or probably, you

55:37

know, probably, you know, probably, you know, probably, you

55:40

know, probably, you know, you know, probably, you know,

55:42

you know, you know, you know, you know, you

55:44

know, probably, you know, you know, you know, you

55:46

know, probably, you know, probably, you know, you know, a

55:48

floor cut out so the camera

55:50

can be right at ground level

55:53

when they're looking up at the

55:55

dog or Wayne when he shows

55:57

up. That complementing the giant production...

56:00

design stuff as well to give

56:02

that, you know, to create that

56:04

sense of this tiny, giant world

56:06

that the tiny kids are inhabiting.

56:08

It's great, it looks brilliant. All

56:10

of that, yeah, because it's not

56:12

just, it's clever camera angles, it's

56:14

giant sets, but it's also puppetry

56:16

and stop animation and this insane

56:18

combination of different techniques to create

56:21

this quite, I mean, at the

56:23

time, very, very, and I mean,

56:25

it still holds up, I think,

56:27

you do know that it's like,

56:29

like, like, it's all artifice, artifice.

56:31

but it still looks great. Yeah,

56:33

like the Ant puppet apparently had

56:35

16 operators and they were they

56:37

were also worried about the Ant

56:39

puppet looking too scary. I mean,

56:41

like I said, it's too scary

56:44

for me. And there was talk

56:46

about Stuart Gordon trying to make

56:48

it look more like ET, apparently.

56:50

I don't know how you would

56:52

go about making an ant look

56:54

more like ET. but they were

56:56

worried about it scaring kids. The

56:58

temptation to anthropomorphize the insects and

57:00

stuff in these films. It's not

57:02

the right instinct, is it? The

57:04

film works because of how realistic

57:07

the designs are, even down to

57:09

like... the fibers of the blades

57:11

of grass is it feels really

57:13

realistic you know there's some plants

57:15

they can slide down or the

57:17

texture of the pollen and stuff

57:19

like that is so important for

57:21

making you feel that you're in

57:23

this world, that you're in the

57:25

same world, in the same world

57:27

we always were, but you know,

57:30

seeing the detail of it, it's

57:32

so vivid and vibrant, the world

57:34

that they create in this film,

57:36

that I think it would definitely

57:38

be detrimental to have like a

57:40

friendly ET face or whatever on

57:42

the ant. But it's all about

57:44

that kind of, it still creates

57:46

that kind of family friendly nature

57:48

to it, doesn't it? Because... It's

57:50

not treated in this, obviously they're

57:53

trying to survive this garden in

57:55

their current size, but not... this

57:57

fear that you get an incredible

57:59

shrinking man that kind of existential

58:01

dread that's happening throughout this it

58:03

kind of seems the kids are

58:05

in a big when you're watching

58:07

it as a kid it's like

58:09

a giant playground isn't it to

58:11

the extent that they've got kids

58:13

toys which are giant size and

58:16

the cookie scene as well. Brilliant,

58:18

you know. So like every kid's

58:20

dream, I mean that's still my

58:22

dream to be fair to eat

58:24

a giant-sized Oreo, that'd be delicious.

58:26

That's my gut instincts as well,

58:28

but I was like, how long

58:30

has it been there? That was

58:32

my reaction. Yeah, that's the other

58:34

thing. I thought this about the

58:36

cake and the incredible drinking man.

58:39

I mean the cakes buy a

58:41

spider web in the incredible drinking

58:43

man, so yeah, how good is

58:45

it? But then if it's... that's

58:47

only a tiny little bit maybe

58:49

it's not got any mold on

58:51

yeah yeah yeah if you're small

58:53

enough maybe you can separate the

58:55

mold and yeah I don't know

58:57

about that side of things but

58:59

the film actually got me thinking

59:02

about sci facts right so could

59:04

this be real could we make

59:06

a shrinking ray and shrink people

59:08

down can we do you think

59:10

we could or do you think

59:12

it's Not going to happen any

59:14

time soon. I've got to assume

59:16

it's a no. Why? What have

59:18

you got? It's a no. I

59:20

tried to rack the internet and

59:22

tried to find out anyone who's

59:25

created a successful shrinking ray. Sadly,

59:27

it's not happened as of yet.

59:29

But Isaac Asimov was one of

59:31

the first people to be like,

59:33

no, never going to happen because

59:35

if you're writing science, he could

59:37

like, obviously, famous science fiction writer.

59:39

to do that he said it

59:41

would require shrinking the very atoms

59:43

to constitute matter which is not

59:45

feasible with our current understanding of

59:48

physics. Well dare I say that's

59:50

the lack of imagination on the

59:52

great Isaac Asimov's part because doesn't

59:54

Wayne Zilinsky directly sort of address

59:56

that when he's talking to NASA

59:58

because he doesn't shrink the atoms,

1:00:00

he's looking at the empty space

1:00:02

between atoms. and reducing the amount

1:00:04

of empty space between the atoms.

1:00:06

So as I understand it in

1:00:08

this movie, he got the same

1:00:11

number of atoms and those atoms

1:00:13

of the same size in the

1:00:15

kids. He has just reduced the

1:00:17

empty space between atoms to make

1:00:19

small children. Well, I mean, if

1:00:21

it worked for Zilinsky, then sure,

1:00:23

it's as good as a science

1:00:25

fiction explanation as any. And I

1:00:27

think the science fiction... Just make

1:00:29

it, it's fine, we don't care.

1:00:31

Especially Disney sci-fi. Yeah, especially Disney

1:00:34

sci-fi. We can give them the

1:00:36

benefit of the doubt. But there's

1:00:38

stuff like nanotechnology, that's probably the

1:00:40

closest to shrinking things down. But

1:00:42

it's more making miniaturized versions of

1:00:44

stuff, I think, with the idea

1:00:46

of getting things down to that

1:00:48

size. So you could make a

1:00:50

miniaturized, I don't know, nano structure,

1:00:52

which would be tiny. And again.

1:00:54

nano technology coming back in we

1:00:57

talked about it last time on

1:00:59

the show we were talking about

1:01:01

the man in the white suits

1:01:03

it seems like it's the future

1:01:05

nano technology the only shrinking ray

1:01:07

that I found online was a

1:01:09

shrinking ray which was made by

1:01:11

some scientists at the University of

1:01:13

Texas in Austin and they made

1:01:15

shrink instead of shrinking objects as

1:01:17

a whole, it altered the size

1:01:20

and shape of gel-like materials used

1:01:22

for growing cells in a lab.

1:01:24

Cool. So I don't know exactly

1:01:26

what that means, but it said

1:01:28

the innovation doesn't actually shrink things

1:01:30

in a sci-fi sense, but it

1:01:32

does offer a way to shape

1:01:34

materials for cell growth and research.

1:01:36

So again, it's looking at things

1:01:38

at a macro level. creating like

1:01:40

different ways to that could lead

1:01:43

better medical treatments and implants you

1:01:45

could it could help with like

1:01:47

organ regrowth and cloning and infections

1:01:49

and things like that infection prevention

1:01:51

all of that so that's as

1:01:53

close as we've got there's no

1:01:55

actual shrinking rays except for this

1:01:57

one which kind of does something

1:01:59

along those lines. It just kind

1:02:01

of changes the shape of some

1:02:03

useful goop it sounds like. Yeah

1:02:06

I think that's the best way

1:02:08

to explain that. Still pretty amazing.

1:02:10

Thank you for that side fact

1:02:12

James. If you want to shrink

1:02:14

some useful goop go along to

1:02:16

the University of Texas and see them

1:02:18

about their shrinking rain. I will stop

1:02:20

by. I'll bring my own goop. I'm

1:02:22

sure they'll be pleased with that. They

1:02:25

run it, they always have to give

1:02:27

people the goop as part of the

1:02:29

tourist experience. So you said that you

1:02:31

hadn't seen the start of this movie

1:02:33

before, so you kind of missed some

1:02:35

of the emotional landscape I guess of

1:02:37

the Salinsky family and the Thompson as

1:02:39

well on the other side of the

1:02:42

fence. There's some stuff going on there.

1:02:44

Do you think that... Did that add

1:02:46

anything to the experience of seeing

1:02:48

the movie now? Was there anything

1:02:50

in the shrunken world that had

1:02:52

more resonance for you? Now you

1:02:55

actually know the kind of the

1:02:57

backstory I guess of the characters

1:02:59

before everyone gets shrunk. I think

1:03:01

with the family dynamics the stuff

1:03:03

that stuck out for me this

1:03:06

time was the very blatant stuff

1:03:08

that was happening with the Thompson's.

1:03:10

So the oldest Thompson son Russ

1:03:12

and then there's big Russ. So

1:03:14

his dad is constantly saying, oh, you

1:03:16

need to act big, you need to be

1:03:19

a big man, you need to be not

1:03:21

little. So it's making very blatant

1:03:23

things about like, you need to grow

1:03:25

up and beat this bigger person, and

1:03:27

you need to be like a football

1:03:30

star, and you to work out and

1:03:32

become big and strong. And it's all

1:03:34

about being bigger and powerful. And then

1:03:37

they keep making references to him being

1:03:39

like on the smaller side, which I

1:03:41

didn't really notice. when compared to the

1:03:44

other kids. Yeah, it doesn't,

1:03:46

that part doesn't quite work

1:03:48

when the character is the

1:03:50

older brother, because he's the

1:03:52

biggest kid. And seeing as most

1:03:55

of the film is just kids,

1:03:57

he's kind of the biggest person.

1:03:59

So it doesn't quite make sense.

1:04:02

And it's a very just straightforward

1:04:04

kind of metaphor, isn't it, that

1:04:06

the dad is telling him he's got to

1:04:09

get bigger, he's got to be a big

1:04:11

guy, physically a big guy, and then

1:04:13

he gets shrunk. Yeah. So what kind

1:04:15

of lesson, I guess, does little rust

1:04:17

learn? Little, it's entirely rust. He learns

1:04:20

that size doesn't always matter, especially if

1:04:22

you've been turned tiny and... your world

1:04:24

is much bigger now. So he learns

1:04:26

his lesson about all of that. And

1:04:28

I think his parents, his dad kind

1:04:30

of learns that it's not all about

1:04:33

that over at the end of it.

1:04:35

And all of that kind of stuff

1:04:37

comes to play. But then there's also

1:04:39

Nick Zalinsky, Wayne's son, who you said

1:04:41

he's like a mini me, but he's constantly

1:04:44

trying to prove to his dad that he's

1:04:46

got the potential to do what

1:04:48

he does and trying to get the

1:04:50

attention of his. of his dad, so

1:04:52

he wants the attention of his parents

1:04:55

and they're not giving it to

1:04:57

him until he completely disappears

1:04:59

and becomes tiny. And then

1:05:01

they are, the attention is all on him

1:05:03

trying to find him and then he's

1:05:05

the one who suggests, who says like

1:05:07

look dad it was the baseball, this

1:05:10

is the reason why it's, so he

1:05:12

sort of solves it at the end.

1:05:14

So there's that. You've got other

1:05:16

stuff like, so Ron, the youngest

1:05:18

Thompson. he's kind of like acting

1:05:20

out a bit isn't he but he's

1:05:22

the one who's coming out of

1:05:24

all these inventions so like in

1:05:26

the same way incredible shrinking man

1:05:28

has the the ingenuity aspect Ron is

1:05:31

quite good at like making traps and

1:05:33

survival and camping and that kind of

1:05:35

thing so you're getting this kind of

1:05:37

motley crew of different that can all

1:05:40

offer something different are all gonna have

1:05:42

some sort of lesson learned by the

1:05:44

end of it like Nick is going

1:05:46

to have his resolution with his parents

1:05:49

and they're finally going to notice him

1:05:51

and pay attention to him. Amy is

1:05:53

kind of love sick and she's like

1:05:55

she wants to go on a date with this

1:05:58

guy in the mall and then she knows notices

1:06:00

the guy next door strikes up

1:06:02

a love affair. So she has that kind

1:06:04

of change in her character. Ron kind

1:06:06

of learns to become less of a

1:06:09

little shit, but maybe not entirely. I'm

1:06:11

not convinced, but it's like it

1:06:13

feels like maybe that should have been

1:06:15

his sort of character arc with it.

1:06:17

But it's again, it's all of them

1:06:19

being in that sort of combined space

1:06:22

and having to work together, even though

1:06:24

their neighbors that don't really talk and.

1:06:26

two of them Nick and Ron hate

1:06:28

each other but they're sort of

1:06:30

combining forces to conquer this

1:06:32

fast garden and get back safely

1:06:35

and be turned back to normal

1:06:37

size. Yeah and they are turned

1:06:39

back to normal size relatively quickly

1:06:41

aren't they like this is a

1:06:43

this is a mad science movie

1:06:45

with a mad scientist unlike the

1:06:48

incredible shrinking man but ultimately like

1:06:50

structurally it's still It's a man

1:06:52

versus nature story, isn't it? The

1:06:54

whole plot is made up of

1:06:56

the kids getting safely back to

1:06:58

the house. Because actually once Wayne

1:07:01

is able to find them, restoring

1:07:03

them to full size is relatively simple.

1:07:05

There's a little bit of a diversion

1:07:07

with testing it out on the neighbor

1:07:09

just to make sure it's safe. But

1:07:12

actually he just got to tinker with

1:07:14

it a little bit and then zap

1:07:16

him again, it's fine. So it kind

1:07:19

of feels... Like it has that same structure

1:07:21

as the incredible drinking man. It's really

1:07:23

more about that, that battle with nature

1:07:25

when you're absolutely tiny and losing your

1:07:27

kind of like top of the food

1:07:30

chain status, which I think Nikki references

1:07:32

when they first get shrunk. Yeah, he

1:07:34

says that straight away, doesn't he? The

1:07:36

ingenuity of all of them in sort

1:07:38

of overcoming all of these... trials and

1:07:41

tribulations like both in the garden and

1:07:43

also for Wayne in trying to find

1:07:45

the kids even though it doesn't really

1:07:47

work out for him the kids find

1:07:49

him and then you've got that

1:07:51

amazing serial scene which is exactly

1:07:54

what happens in the incredible games

1:07:56

that TV show which we've referenced

1:07:58

before where they swim around the

1:08:00

giant sort of alphabet soup. So you

1:08:02

see that in this, when the kids

1:08:04

finally reach the house and they're trying to

1:08:07

get the attention of their parents. Yeah,

1:08:09

good, incredible games, reference on the pod,

1:08:11

always good to name check incredible games.

1:08:13

Yeah, great TV show that was. That's

1:08:15

a little bit after this, isn't it?

1:08:18

I think maybe they took that from

1:08:20

the likes of this. But speaking of

1:08:22

stuff like game after, I mean, this

1:08:24

had this had a whole legacy of

1:08:26

its own, didn't it. There's two more

1:08:29

films and... and a TV series. I've

1:08:31

definitely never seen the TV series, but

1:08:33

I've definitely seen the sequel, and I've

1:08:35

probably seen the third one as well, but

1:08:37

I can't really remember it. Do you remember

1:08:40

the rest of the franchise? I remember the

1:08:42

sequel, again, I don't think we had the

1:08:44

beginning of that film on tape either. For

1:08:46

whatever reason, we always missed the beginning of

1:08:49

the films. It's on, but the daybin. That's

1:08:51

what's what's going on. Yeah, exactly that.

1:08:53

But Honey I blew up the kid

1:08:55

as well was apparently was supposed to

1:08:57

be a different, well it was a

1:08:59

different film that they kind of retrofitted

1:09:01

for Honey I rent the kids afterwards.

1:09:04

It was called The Big Baby, ingenious. I

1:09:06

mean this had some funny titles as

1:09:08

well. It was initially titled Teeny Weenies,

1:09:10

which would have been a bit much,

1:09:12

and then it got changed to Grounded.

1:09:14

That's a good name, but too, too

1:09:16

vague I suppose. And then also the

1:09:18

big backyard. and then Honey I Shrek

1:09:20

and the Kids which I think is

1:09:22

the perfect title. Honey I Shrek the Kids

1:09:25

is kind of a do or die

1:09:27

title isn't it because it's pretty stupid

1:09:29

title but if you can make a

1:09:31

fun enough movie you can get away

1:09:33

with a title like that and then

1:09:35

it becomes kind of iconic like having

1:09:37

a line of dialogue as your title

1:09:39

is a risky. It's got to be

1:09:41

a bit of dialogue for it to

1:09:43

work. Do they definitely say Honey I

1:09:45

Shrek the Kids? Yeah, he does not

1:09:47

preface it with honey in the film.

1:09:49

I did watch that. I was like...

1:09:51

It is a little disappointing in there. I

1:09:53

wonder if he says, honey I blew

1:09:55

up the kid in the second one.

1:09:58

I guarantee you, who will do that? And

1:10:00

I think there was talk of

1:10:02

bringing Moranis back as well for

1:10:04

a Disney Plus movie, which I

1:10:07

don't think has happened and I

1:10:09

don't know what's going on with

1:10:11

it, because he's been in retirement

1:10:13

for years, because his wife

1:10:15

passed away sadly. So he kind

1:10:18

of like disappeared off the Hollywood

1:10:20

stage, but... Yeah, there was talk like

1:10:22

two years ago, I think, of bringing

1:10:24

him back and doing like a reboot

1:10:26

of it, which would be interesting. I

1:10:28

don't know if that'd be very good,

1:10:30

but I'd be really happy to see

1:10:32

Rick Moranis back on screens. Yeah, because

1:10:35

the last one that he did was

1:10:37

the director video one, Honey, we shrunk

1:10:39

ourselves, which was out in I-7. So

1:10:41

yeah, it would be good to sort

1:10:43

of see him reprise the row in

1:10:45

a bigger budget version, but I think

1:10:47

that I read there was like an

1:10:49

outline for like an outline for a

1:10:51

potential new version of the film that

1:10:53

they would do to kind of reboot

1:10:55

it and it would be Nick shrinking

1:10:57

his daughters and then he has to

1:11:00

get his dad Rick Moranis back to

1:11:02

help desrink them so there could have

1:11:04

been lots of hilarity with that. I

1:11:06

mean going back to Honey I blew

1:11:09

up the kid though that was like

1:11:11

it felt I think like they missed

1:11:13

the trick by not going back to

1:11:15

shrinking. I think turning the baby massive.

1:11:18

It worked in bits of it, but

1:11:20

I remember just feeling really sad

1:11:22

for the baby as well. It's a

1:11:24

bit where the baby's massive and he's

1:11:27

just crying because he's hit and he's

1:11:29

like electrocuted himself and he wants his

1:11:31

mum and then yeah, lots of other

1:11:34

stuff happens in that film. But the

1:11:36

TV series, I don't remember at all.

1:11:38

I didn't know that existed. I didn't

1:11:41

know they made it. How much mileage

1:11:43

can you get out of shrinking the

1:11:45

same characters every week? 66 episodes apparently.

1:11:47

66 Jesus. Yeah, well they did free

1:11:49

series of it and we have no

1:11:51

idea what it is. Like that's crazy.

1:11:54

But hey, Honey I Shrent the Kids has

1:11:56

a great legacy to it and I like

1:11:58

how it's kind of homages. the incredible

1:12:00

shrinking man in the title as

1:12:02

well a little bit with the

1:12:04

shrinking shrunk. I assume that's on

1:12:06

purpose. I think that the the

1:12:08

it borrows enormously from the incredible

1:12:10

shrinking man doesn't it and then

1:12:12

turn essentially kind of turns it

1:12:14

into a family friendly adventure movie

1:12:16

instead of an existential horror story.

1:12:18

What a switch up. Yeah so

1:12:21

two very similar movies but what

1:12:23

an incredible diversity of tone between

1:12:25

the two of them. Yeah, two

1:12:27

very different films tonally, but both

1:12:29

featuring the same sci-fi tropes and

1:12:31

using them to different effects. I

1:12:33

mean, in both of them, it's

1:12:35

that fear of your surroundings becoming

1:12:37

more dangerous, more unknown, and then

1:12:39

trying to get back to normal

1:12:41

size and then whether you accept

1:12:43

the normal size is never going

1:12:45

to happen or whether you can

1:12:47

get your crazy bumbling scientist dad.

1:12:49

to make you become normal size

1:12:51

again. It's between those two, isn't

1:12:53

it? Yeah. Yeah, wow. Well, I

1:12:55

think that about wraps up our

1:12:57

episode today on Accidental Shrinking with

1:12:59

the incredible Shinking Man and Honey,

1:13:02

I shrunk the kids. I don't

1:13:04

think I've ever said the word

1:13:06

shrinking so much as I have

1:13:08

in this episode. But thank you

1:13:10

all for joining us for today's

1:13:12

episode of Journey Through Sci-Fi. If

1:13:14

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1:14:09

are waiting for the next mad

1:14:11

science episode and can't wait to

1:14:13

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1:14:15

we don't have to wait any

1:14:17

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1:14:19

what the next episode is gonna

1:14:22

be very shortly what's gonna be

1:14:24

Matt next time we're talking about

1:14:26

something I hate that I mentioned

1:14:28

that I mentioned earlier we're talking

1:14:30

all about fliesies I annoying little

1:14:32

insects that bother us in our

1:14:34

homes. Yes. And we're looking at

1:14:36

some mad scientists that are dealing

1:14:38

with them. And I think we

1:14:40

can all guess what films we're

1:14:42

looking at when we're talking about

1:14:44

mad science involving flies. But James,

1:14:46

what are the two films that

1:14:48

we've got next time? The fly

1:14:50

and the fly. Love it. So

1:14:52

the 1958 version and the one

1:14:54

from 1986 by David Cronenberg. So

1:14:56

that's going to be... Two new

1:14:58

sci-fi films to delve into next

1:15:00

time on the show. Yeah, one

1:15:03

of these is one of my

1:15:05

all-time favorites and the other one

1:15:07

I've never seen. I wonder which

1:15:09

way it's going to be. Well,

1:15:11

we will be back with that

1:15:13

very soon. We'll talk to you

1:15:15

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