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Hi everyone, it's Allison here to

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announce that I have officially opened

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with our partners, all with the

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real mental health focused framing. So

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if you're interested in booking a

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session or learning more, please go

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to my website Allison raskin.com/coaching or

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email me. at raskin coaching@gmail.com.

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This podcast is sponsored

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by TalkSpace. You know when you're really

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TurboTax app. I'm also asking, I'm

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a writer, mental health advocate,

2:03

and it feels like dark

2:06

in here. Just between us.

2:08

Yeah. I'm also asking, I'm

2:10

a writer, mental health advocate,

2:12

and it feels like dark

2:15

in here. I feel like

2:17

I'm being slowly put to

2:19

sleep and that I should

2:21

be going to bed instead

2:23

of doing my job. Hi,

2:26

I'm Gabe Dunn. I'm a

2:28

writer, by-con, bisexual, icon, wink,

2:30

and I too felt like

2:32

a nap. It feels like

2:35

nap time. Boy I have

2:37

a little dog sleeping, who

2:39

was sleeping on my lap.

2:41

Well, that kind of makes

2:43

me be like, oh, should

2:46

we all sleep? Right? I haven't napped

2:48

in a while. Not like a crazy

2:50

amount of time. This is like, like,

2:52

a few weeks. It's the end of

2:54

the day. It's Friday, it's Friday. Big

2:56

night tonight. I have a ton of

2:58

shit to do. I cannot believe that

3:00

you have two different activities to do

3:03

after this. That seems awful. I have

3:05

to Google Q&A for a screening and

3:07

I have to go to a birthday

3:09

party. And it doesn't, neither even starts

3:11

until 8.30? No. And I had to

3:13

watch, I had to wake up at

3:15

8 o'clock this morning to finish watching

3:17

the movie for the thing tonight. And

3:19

I didn't get home from the airport

3:21

until 11 because of my own folly.

3:23

Oh yes, say what happened there. No,

3:26

it's so embarrassing. I drove to the

3:28

airport and I was only gone for

3:30

like two days so I parked my

3:32

car at the airport and then I

3:34

got off the plane at 730 and

3:36

was like feeling good about my time

3:38

frame for all my work that I

3:40

had to get done and I put

3:42

on my headphones, I get in the

3:44

Uber, I like literally took the shuttle

3:46

to the Uber place to the like

3:49

I did so many steps and then

3:51

I got home. The Uber parks in

3:53

front of my apartment and I go.

3:55

My car is at LAX. That's awful.

3:57

I know that there's like... a lot

3:59

of horrible experiences people can go through,

4:01

but there's something about that where it's

4:03

like, it's must have just been so

4:05

very upsetting. Yeah. Because you have to

4:07

understand, LAX is very far from where

4:09

Gable is. Yep, yep, yep. Oh, I

4:12

was, I was like, I kept repeating,

4:14

I'm the dumbest bitch who's ever lived.

4:16

Because you have no one to blame

4:18

but yourself. Yep. And then you had

4:20

all of this time to realize and

4:22

to then not realize until you were

4:24

already home. Yeah. And then to then

4:26

have to be actively punished right away

4:28

for that by having to go back

4:30

to LAX. Yep. Awful. I'm so sorry.

4:32

Yeah. And I was like, I literally

4:35

did it to save money and then

4:37

ended up losing three hours and more

4:39

money. Like I'm so mad at myself.

4:41

It's crazy. And then Alex was happened

4:43

to be at my house because he

4:45

had parked for Dodgeball so he pulled

4:47

up and he was like get in

4:49

you dumb bitch. And so I like

4:51

got in and he drove me back

4:53

to LAX so I could get my

4:55

car. And then he was like just

4:58

kind of saying like you know you

5:00

need to think of better ways to

5:02

like remember stuff and like it's not

5:04

a bad. It's like he's like you

5:06

have to stop beating yourself up. It's

5:08

not a bad thing. You just have

5:10

to read just how you remember how

5:12

you remember things to a way you

5:14

remember things. instead of being upset that

5:16

you don't have the same that everyone

5:18

else does or whatever. I like that

5:21

take. And I was like, okay, because

5:23

I could literally, this is what I

5:25

said to him, I was like, I'm

5:27

so upset because I always forget like

5:29

if I need to bring food home

5:31

from work or something, I'll like forget,

5:33

I'll like, if I need to bring

5:35

food home from work or something, I'll

5:37

like, forget, but I'll like, whatever. So

5:39

I get home and I get home

5:41

and I get home and I'm like.

5:44

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that you're

5:46

stupid. It means why do you keep

5:48

writing it on your arm? It's not

5:50

going to work. Do a different thing.

5:52

I find phone alarms to be very

5:54

helpful. Yes. But I have also set

5:56

a phone alarm that said meds in

5:58

all caps and then completely forgot. Like

6:00

I... I'm very concerned and then this

6:02

is also a series of things that

6:04

I've done that are very absent-minded and

6:07

Alex was gently last night like have

6:09

you have you thought about if you

6:11

have ADHD? Have you maybe thought just

6:13

maybe read some stuff about it and

6:15

I was like I'll think about it.

6:17

I also just think that that our

6:19

brains are scrambled now like I feel

6:21

less on top of things than I

6:23

used to be like I think a

6:25

lot and I don't know if it's

6:27

like just the exhaustion of being alive.

6:30

Yeah, like I was like, is it

6:32

possible to develop ADHD? Because I don't

6:34

think I was like this before. It's

6:36

like brain fog, right? Like I don't

6:38

think I've ever had COVID, but maybe

6:40

it's just grief. But like, yeah, like

6:42

I'm just like not on top of

6:44

stuff the way that like my brain

6:46

is just like. not functioning at the

6:48

level it has in the past and

6:50

I think that seems to be a

6:53

through line for a lot of people's

6:55

brains. And then I was so upset

6:57

while I was waiting for Alex to

6:59

come back to take me back to

7:01

LAX that I was taking my clothes

7:03

off to like change clothes and instead

7:05

of putting my clothes in the washer

7:07

I put them in the garbage. You

7:09

threw them out? No, but then I

7:11

had to dig them out of the

7:13

garbage to put them in the wash

7:16

because I needed those clothes. I didn't

7:18

mean to. Oh, you didn't mean to.

7:20

No. Oh, I thought you had done

7:22

it as like, and I shall get

7:24

rid of. No, I didn't mean to.

7:26

You were flustered. I, but that's, I

7:28

don't think I should be trusted with

7:30

anything. I've thrown out my car keys.

7:32

Oh my god. My mask chain, many

7:34

times, I've thrown out phantom's medication that

7:36

John had to dig through the trash

7:39

to look for. Because something that I

7:41

do is I wipe things down with

7:43

the Clorox wipe or wash it and

7:45

then wrap it in a paper towel

7:47

and then I go, what's this Clorox

7:49

wipe doing this? Oh yeah. Maybe it's

7:51

good. You know what it is? We're

7:53

talking about it. So we don't think

7:55

we're the only dumb bitches. Like you

7:57

have to feel like everyone else in

7:59

the world is also a dumb bitch.

8:01

And sometimes if I just feel like

8:04

I don't know how to recover from

8:06

the level of contamination of something, I'll

8:08

just throw it out. Yeah. Like that

8:10

time when I... I had a cockroach

8:12

in my bathroom and then I used

8:14

a small handheld backroom to get the

8:16

cockroach and then I was like, what

8:18

am I gonna do? There's no, there's

8:20

no way forward for me other than

8:22

throwing this whole thing out. I was

8:24

like, I'm gonna open this and let

8:27

the cockroach out? Like, no. I was

8:29

like, be kind to myself, Allison, and

8:31

then just. Oh my God. Well, this

8:33

is just between us. A variety show

8:35

filled with heartfelt advice. Ridiculous game. And

8:37

brutal honesty. Yeah. Yeah, really? I'm like

8:39

very concerned about, like, okay, so at

8:41

work, I have to go out to

8:43

the, I have to put the trash

8:45

in these dumpsters and I went out

8:47

and I was throwing stuff away and

8:50

I had the master lock, the padlock

8:52

to the dumpsters in my hand and

8:54

I realized I had accidentally thrown it

8:56

in the dumpster. And I was like,

8:58

oh, I'm not getting in the dumpster,

9:00

like, what am I going to do?

9:02

And I realized, I was like, okay,

9:04

let's think. And I realized that the

9:06

grabby hand that we use to get

9:08

things down from the high shelves, I

9:10

could use it to reach into the

9:13

dumpster. And so instead of just being

9:15

like, well, now I have to climb

9:17

into this dumpster. I was like, no,

9:19

give it five minutes, think of solutions.

9:21

And I could just grab it with

9:23

the grab it. We

9:26

have got a really fun episode

9:28

for everyone today. Oh yeah, we're

9:30

gonna be talking to you as

9:33

you and Julie Kraftich all about

9:35

dating. Modern dating. They're the co-hosts

9:37

of the dateable podcast. You know,

9:39

look, we have just a couple

9:42

of experts really getting into our

9:44

craft. Yeah, and me sort of

9:46

being like, what's wrong with me?

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back to Just Between Us. It's

16:07

time for the juiciest, most scandalous,

16:09

most controversial segment known to all

16:11

of podcasting. Tough questions! This week

16:13

on the show we have Julie

16:15

Kraftchick and Uwa Shoe who are

16:17

active dators turned dating insiders and

16:19

top influential voices of modern dating

16:21

relationships and connection in the digital

16:23

world. They're the co-host of the

16:25

hit podcast, Datable, and now co-authors

16:27

of the book, How To Be

16:29

Datable, the essential guide to finding

16:31

your person and falling in love.

16:33

While Allison, you have nothing in

16:35

common with these people. These are

16:37

my rivals, and we shall spike.

16:39

of the how-to-be dateable podcast. And

16:41

so yeah, we're having a little

16:43

cross promo, I love it. Yeah,

16:45

you like, once they actually meet

16:47

people, we kick them over to

16:49

you, Allison. There you go. It's

16:51

kickback. So I think that there's

16:53

a lot of frustration with modern

16:55

dating, and it's tough out there.

16:57

And so I'm curious, like, what

17:00

your theories are on why it

17:02

is now, like, so difficult to

17:04

find a... long-term relationship, even though

17:06

we have more choices and outlets

17:08

than ever before. And if that

17:10

is the issue. Yeah, we often

17:12

talk about how we are the

17:14

most disconnected we've ever been as

17:16

humanity, right? We feel like we're

17:18

so connected through technology and all

17:20

the tools that we have, yet

17:22

we feel extremely disconnected within our

17:24

hearts from each other. And I

17:26

think that's very much shown in

17:28

modern dating that People will go

17:30

on these dates but they don't

17:32

feel connected to the people they're

17:34

meeting. And that's the difficult part.

17:36

I think we're just having a

17:38

really hard time getting to a

17:40

deeper connection. I was going to

17:42

say when Allison what you said

17:44

about you know more choices than

17:46

ever before and that is the

17:48

case and you would think that

17:50

would mean it was easier, right?

17:52

But we're finding it's actually quite

17:54

the opposite because it's almost like

17:56

people feel like they can go

17:58

shopping for their perfect partner on

18:00

Amazon because there's so many choices

18:02

and I have this like laundry

18:04

list of what I think is

18:06

will make the perfect partner and

18:08

that just becomes like a never

18:10

ending cycle. where people are always

18:12

feeling like they need to move

18:14

on to the next, and we

18:16

feel like people just don't get

18:19

enough time anymore, and we're settling

18:21

for the wrong things. Yeah, I

18:23

saw a thing about a person

18:25

from Gen Z on Reddit being

18:27

like, why is dating so hard?

18:29

Like, how was it for millennials

18:31

and Gen X? And the people

18:33

were saying... Well I met people

18:35

like all the time because I

18:37

would go to like I would

18:39

go places like there were more

18:41

like social type of things to

18:43

attend or there wasn't another option

18:45

for how to meet people because

18:47

there wasn't the internet so you

18:49

met them at work or at

18:51

in like a sports league this

18:53

one guy was saying or a

18:55

friend of a friend or people

18:57

were more willing to set people

18:59

up. Or they were saying, even

19:01

when you're talking about deeper connections,

19:03

they were saying that they were

19:05

getting to know people more because

19:07

they knew them as a friend

19:09

first through whatever means to which

19:11

they knew them, or a co-worker

19:13

first, or whatever, rather than just

19:15

like meeting someone off a dating

19:17

app. Because I'm single, and meeting

19:19

people off a dating app, I'm

19:21

like, when I see my friends,

19:23

or you guys know about that,

19:25

when I see a friend of

19:27

mine on a dating app, and

19:29

I'm like... I want to shake

19:31

them and be like, why did

19:33

you choose these pictures? Why did

19:35

you choose these words? It is

19:38

never reflective of how great they

19:40

are in person. It doesn't look

19:42

like them. It's never like they

19:44

always somehow look so much uglier

19:46

in in their pictures that they

19:48

chose like, that's what you think

19:50

you look best as. Like, it

19:52

doesn't make any sense. I had

19:54

one friend where I thought his

19:56

profile was perfect. And I was

19:58

like, actually. this is great in

20:00

a really good depiction of you.

20:02

But generally, I will see friends

20:04

of mine and I'll go, no,

20:06

I would redo this profile for

20:08

you entirely. What is wrong with

20:10

you? So I don't, then it

20:12

makes me look at the people

20:14

I match with and go, I'm

20:16

not getting an accurate representation of

20:18

you at all. Yeah, I love

20:20

all of that. That's exactly it.

20:22

I mean, Gen Z is feeling

20:24

it the most because they are

20:26

the generation that has the most

20:28

information, the most through technology, yet

20:30

they spread themselves thin and they

20:32

don't go deep. And I actually

20:34

just had this conversation with my

20:36

parents. They met in college and

20:38

within their graduating class, 11 couples

20:40

are successfully married and still married

20:42

11 couples. But now I think

20:44

we always go out externally, like

20:46

we don't think internally to our

20:48

networks because we have all these

20:50

resources to spread wider. And therefore

20:52

we don't get to know the

20:54

people. who are actually in our

20:57

universe. Yeah, I agree with you.

20:59

I think that's interesting because I

21:01

think there's a lot of friendships

21:03

where you don't, you're like, this

21:05

is resonating with me because you're

21:07

going around searching for new people,

21:09

but a lot of times the

21:11

people that I've fallen in love

21:13

with or whatever dated are people

21:15

that I already knew, but I

21:17

saw them in a different light

21:19

or I like got more interested

21:21

in them. And I think. There

21:23

is something to maybe just asking

21:25

your friends more in-depth question. But

21:27

I still think one of the

21:29

things we always see is people

21:31

show up on that date and

21:33

they're like, is this going to

21:35

be my like forever person? And

21:37

it's like there's no way that

21:39

you can tell by going out

21:41

with someone one time. It's just

21:43

so much pressure too. And like

21:45

what you were saying gave, it's

21:47

like over time before. That's how

21:49

you met people. That's how you

21:51

got to know them. And we

21:53

call it actually in our book

21:55

the expectation of love on demand,

21:57

where it's just near impossible. Yeah,

21:59

that's the expectation we all hold.

22:01

So if that spark isn't there,

22:03

we move on and probably pass

22:05

someone that could be a really

22:07

good partner. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because there's

22:10

this whole thing of like settling.

22:12

Mm-hmm. And I think there's also

22:14

this thing where we see these

22:16

videos and tick talks and tweets

22:18

about one person making one mistake,

22:20

saying one awkward thing on a

22:22

date and then like this pile

22:24

on of like, what a loop.

22:27

Like, thank God you got out

22:29

of that. And it's like, everyone

22:31

says awkward things sometimes. Or, you

22:33

know, and so then, like, I

22:35

think when people are dating, it's

22:37

like, oh, well, that could have

22:39

been a viral tweet. I better

22:42

get out of here and they

22:44

don't see, like, the full person.

22:47

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly

22:49

it. Julie and I was talking

22:51

about this, like, it, red flag

22:54

here. But what you're describing

22:56

there is basically like what we're

22:58

also talking about. It's like

23:00

we experience these things in dating

23:02

and then we tell our friends and

23:04

it becomes a story and it becomes

23:07

a viral story that goes on

23:09

TikTok. Yet we don't explore it

23:11

further with the person that we're

23:13

actually talking about. So everything we

23:15

do now is just so outward.

23:17

Like there's just no internal exploration,

23:19

which is probably part of

23:21

what we're calling. the love prices,

23:24

like why a lot of people are

23:26

finding dating harder and harder and giving

23:28

up on love, is that they don't,

23:31

they haven't gone deeper, you know, like

23:33

inside. Do you think there's something

23:35

too? I feel exhausted. I feel

23:37

like I was engaged, we broke up, like,

23:39

I feel like I've sort of like done

23:42

a lot of it, and now I'm like

23:44

very tired, and the idea of like

23:46

someone coming into my home

23:48

seems exhausting. Like sometimes I will

23:50

like be doing whatever I want to

23:52

do at like one in the morning

23:54

and I'm like imagine if someone

23:56

else was here that suck. But like then

23:59

other times I like Melissa's nodding she's like

24:01

yeah right but then other times I'm

24:03

like ah you really you should really

24:05

find someone I think that's such a typical

24:07

response that we hear all the time and

24:09

I think it's exhausting because of the volume

24:11

too yeah you think about it like back

24:14

in the day you were like going on

24:16

it way fewer dates so it didn't feel

24:18

as exhausting and like you get ghosted once

24:20

like who cares but if it happens like

24:22

eight times in one week you're just

24:25

like oh my god So draining,

24:27

but also it's like this individualistic

24:29

culture too that we're taught to like

24:31

make ourselves kind of like the best

24:33

and that's great in so many ways,

24:36

but it also kind of doesn't

24:38

make room for relationships all the

24:40

time. Yeah. And I think the culture

24:42

of how people treat each other on

24:44

dating apps is so toxic. Like it's

24:46

really people don't. recognize that it's a

24:49

real person and so like the like

24:51

the culture of ghosting of not responding

24:53

of taking days to get back to

24:55

someone of like it just makes it where

24:57

you're setting it up to not take it

24:59

seriously and then to like not engage

25:01

fully with like the full person or to

25:04

like invest your time in someone that

25:06

like Like then it's almost like they're

25:08

getting back to me right away. What's

25:10

wrong with them? Yeah. No, we hear

25:12

that all the time. They're doing the

25:14

thing. They're they're trying to do the

25:16

thing that you're here to do. Well,

25:18

think about we also sensationalize bad dating

25:20

behavior. Like this is all we talk

25:22

about. We talk about like ghosting and

25:25

all these new terms come out like

25:27

bread crumming and I. I'm getting like, what

25:29

was cockroached? Whatever, roaching. There's a

25:31

new term that comes out every

25:33

quarter, but we don't praise people

25:35

for good dating behavior. So of

25:37

course, all we're going to talk

25:39

about is the bad dating behavior,

25:42

which shows to us that this

25:44

is what people are engaging in,

25:46

right? If it's bad dating behavior,

25:48

nobody's like telling their friends,

25:50

this is what's happening. All

25:52

we do is adding fuel to the

25:54

fire by giving attention to bad dating

25:57

behavior. We're going to take a quick break,

25:59

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27:31

traps that people fall

27:33

into with modern dating.

27:35

The settling paradox is

27:38

a big one. We

27:40

kind of touched on

27:42

that, but everyone's so

27:44

afraid to settle and

27:46

you think you kind

27:49

of like have this,

27:51

it's almost like you

27:53

deserve the best because

27:55

I would waiting so

27:57

long for my. but

28:00

then we are misinterpreting

28:02

what the best means and we're

28:04

using a lot of like superficial

28:06

qualities or aspirational ones like we've

28:08

heard people be like I need

28:10

someone that runs half marathons and

28:12

it's like when's the last time

28:14

you went running like why why

28:16

is that it's like you did

28:18

it once 10 years ago like

28:20

is this really something you need and

28:22

We don't want to settle so

28:24

bad, but then we see

28:27

people settling for like situationships

28:29

or relationships that aren't fulfilling

28:31

and it's such a mystery

28:33

of like why that contradiction

28:35

exists. Right, you are settling

28:37

by. Yeah. Not, yeah, that's true. You're

28:39

settling about the terms of the

28:41

relationship rather than maybe the person

28:43

not being the perfect person that

28:46

you yeah, that you fantasized about.

28:48

Yeah. How did you... Julie, you said you

28:50

met your partner on hinge. How did you

28:52

know, let's say like you're giving advice

28:54

or something, like how did you know

28:57

like, oh, this is someone that it

28:59

sticks out on a dating app and this

29:01

is someone that like, oh, could be a

29:03

real person. So even before that, I

29:05

think what I've learned, what we've learned

29:07

from dateable in doing this and looking

29:09

at like researching this for years is

29:12

basically like you don't need to be

29:14

good at dating the way it is

29:16

now. And it's almost like you should throw

29:18

out all the preconceived notions you have.

29:21

So I feel like in terms of

29:23

dating apps, I use them very differently

29:25

than a lot of people that we

29:27

were talking to. I made a point

29:29

to not look at people's profiles for

29:31

more than 30 seconds when I was

29:33

initially swiping because the reality is like

29:35

you don't know if this person is one

29:38

going to match back with you. They're

29:40

even active on the app, anything. And

29:42

we just see people like... have this

29:44

whole fantasy of this person that they

29:46

haven't even met in person yet. And

29:48

it's like that's the problem is that

29:50

we're of course burnt out on data

29:52

gaps if we're not even talking to

29:54

people. It's like all about like analyzing

29:56

profiles and like lines to send. So

29:58

I was I was just send the message

30:01

to say hey like who cares you know everyone

30:03

says like oh you cannot say hey on

30:05

a day to gap it's like the cardinal

30:07

sin but if you like if I guess

30:10

someone attractive came up to you at a

30:12

bar and they said hey would you really

30:14

walk away because they said hello right Don't

30:16

you have a better line? We disagree on

30:19

this, but do you continue your again? We

30:21

can go. We can do a debate. I

30:23

love it. I love it. I love it.

30:26

Let's debate it. So anyways, I tried to

30:28

go against the grain on a lot

30:30

of the stuff that's typical advice

30:32

that you hear on dating apps.

30:34

And then what made me think my

30:36

partner was someone that's

30:39

worth investing in, the fact

30:41

that they were responsive. We were

30:43

having good conversation. They were willing

30:45

to take the conversation to text

30:47

immediately. I wasn't in this like

30:49

forever pen pal state with someone.

30:51

Like if someone's not willing to

30:53

go to the next stage, to

30:56

me that's like, it's a no. Because

30:58

like, the goal for me isn't to be

31:00

on an app forever. It's to meet someone

31:02

in person. So they were willing to talk

31:04

to me, it felt effortless talking to

31:07

them. I felt excited to meet up

31:09

with him, which was something that

31:11

I hadn't always felt in the past.

31:13

And then when I actually

31:15

did, the conversation was pretty

31:17

effortless. In the sense of like immediate

31:20

fireworks, it wasn't there. Part of

31:22

it was that it was COVID, and

31:24

it was awkward when we met. And

31:26

he was like in a mask. The

31:28

other thing that maybe this is a

31:30

trick that people could use. I was

31:32

waiting for him about a street quarter

31:35

because the bar he had shows it

31:37

was closed down during COVID. It like

31:39

closed at 6 p.m. So this guy

31:41

was like kind of hovering around and

31:43

he looked like probably like 30

31:45

years older than my partner and I

31:47

was like, oh my God, please don't

31:49

be at him. Please don't be at

31:51

him. So then when my partner came

31:53

I was like, oh, okay. Good. You

31:56

just need to like have someone come

31:58

in there first. Plant a grandpa. So

32:00

the meeting, the moving to text

32:02

and like meeting up right away is

32:04

more of like a way of the way to

32:06

do it, you think? Absolutely.

32:08

I know a lot of people I talked

32:10

to, they were, and I think, okay,

32:12

this is coming from someone too, that

32:15

for years, I was like, oh,

32:17

I can't be the one to

32:19

text first. I can't do all

32:21

this stuff, especially as like a

32:23

header or a woman. You're told

32:25

that that's so unattractive. you know, people

32:27

aren't going to take you like to be

32:29

like high value and all that other bullshit.

32:31

But eventually I got over it because I

32:33

was like, look, I want to be with

32:36

someone I can text any time. Why am

32:38

I holding back that behavior and dating?

32:40

So I got to this place of like, I didn't

32:42

give a fuck and I was just

32:44

going to send out messages to anyone

32:46

that I thought was attractive. And that's

32:48

what I did. And you know, I

32:50

talked to people and they were like,

32:52

I have all these conversations that go

32:55

nowhere. because no one's moving it along

32:57

and I just wasn't afraid to

32:59

move it along. Yeah, I think that

33:01

that's a huge part of

33:03

it. Having gotten engaged twice

33:05

off of Hinge. You win

33:07

story. You know, with my

33:09

ex, it was like a

33:11

rather brief conversation before we

33:13

made up of time to

33:16

meet in public. And then

33:18

with my husband, it was a

33:20

very like long conversation that night

33:22

that like we were texting back

33:24

and forth like in a full

33:27

conversation for like probably an hour

33:29

and then we immediately made a

33:31

time for a face time date because I

33:33

was in New York and he was in

33:35

LA. And so yeah, I think that people

33:38

get like these people that are like, yeah,

33:40

we've been talking for a few

33:42

weeks on there. I'm like, I think

33:44

sometimes. going out on actual dates can

33:46

be tough if like within three seconds

33:49

you're like this person is not it. So

33:51

having like a phone call or a face time

33:53

is like a good way to like lower your

33:55

bad dates but still like move it along. But

33:57

what I will push back on is the hay.

34:00

Let's do it. And I'll tell you

34:02

why. I think that that also, I

34:04

think that the way to date

34:06

productively on a dating app is

34:08

to engage fully and to. really

34:11

come in with something that is

34:13

like unique to their profile and

34:15

a conversation starter because I think

34:17

it's really difficult for people to

34:19

for certain people to like converse

34:21

over text with a stranger and

34:23

so giving a hey can be

34:25

just like where do we go from here

34:28

where it's something like you know what

34:30

I really liked about hinge was that

34:32

it allowed you to to have more to

34:34

comment on because of the prompts so

34:36

you know opening with something directly

34:38

related to their profile is something

34:40

I would always encourage people to

34:43

do. But hey, you know, you're

34:45

with somebody, I'm married, there's

34:47

many ways to make it work out.

34:49

So I just feel the record, I

34:51

didn't give him a hey, just for

34:54

the record. See, okay, good, now we're

34:56

going to clarify, because I do realize

34:58

now when I was saying I can

35:00

see why you're saying that. Okay, my

35:03

take is how, how, how is your

35:05

weekend? I don't think there's anything wrong

35:07

with that. Something that can elicit conversation.

35:09

I agree, like just leaving the hey

35:12

that's awkward, but it doesn't need to

35:14

be this like well thought out opening

35:16

line. I think the reason why I say

35:19

that is because it just burns people

35:21

out just spending all this time thinking

35:23

about what should I say and diving

35:25

into this profile of this person that

35:27

may never respond back. So if you

35:29

give them an inch and then if

35:31

the conversation picks up, go back to their

35:33

profile, get more creative. I don't think

35:36

it should be like, you know, you're

35:38

just giving generic questions and answers.

35:40

I'm not saying that. It's more

35:42

of just like time per survey,

35:44

like preserving your time. I will say though

35:46

for my partner he had a great in for

35:48

me that was very limited time and I was

35:50

able to move on it. He had photos

35:53

of him and his friends and they

35:55

had emojies over their face because he

35:57

wanted to like preserve their privacy.

35:59

Okay. So I. I just like left a comment,

36:01

like, looks like your friends are super

36:03

happy to be with you. And then

36:05

I was done. And he responded.

36:07

It's super. I mean, it's like so

36:09

simple. And I think you too are

36:12

saying the same thing, which is like,

36:14

find ways to move the conversation along.

36:16

But where this discussion gets a little

36:18

dangerous, it's like, why are we, why

36:20

do we care about the opening

36:22

line so much? You know, when like before

36:24

Bumble came on the market, everybody, all

36:26

the women were like, all guys do

36:28

is just say, And then when Bumble opened,

36:31

the men are like, all women do is

36:33

just say, hey, on Bumble. Oh my God.

36:35

We're like, who cares? Like, who cares? I

36:37

think it matters. I do think it matters.

36:39

I think it matters because like what you

36:41

just said, Julie, you showed that you have

36:43

a sense of humor. It's a way for

36:46

you to kind of quickly establish like your

36:48

vibe a little bit. And so I do

36:50

think that like it actually like being. thoughtful

36:53

about that first comment, especially if it's like

36:55

a fun joke or an observation or something

36:57

you have in common, it is a way

36:59

to like stand out from a sea of

37:01

people that are just saying, hey, how is

37:03

your weekend? So look, as I

37:06

said, we're fighting to the death

37:08

over this, so. No, not even.

37:10

No, I don't think there's fight

37:12

at all. I think we both

37:15

agree with you. I also, I

37:17

want to speak for the people

37:19

who are not funny or witty

37:21

or cannot think of something interesting

37:23

to write. And they're like, and

37:26

then they end up not making

37:28

a first move at all because

37:30

they're like, oh, I'm just not

37:32

funny enough. He looks like someone

37:35

I would vibe with, someone interesting.

37:37

Would you not respond because he

37:39

wrote that? I don't initially be

37:41

much less interested in him than

37:43

someone that that showed more personality. Yeah,

37:45

I was about to say Allison

37:48

wouldn't reply. I would. I would.

37:50

The person needs to have jokes. But

37:52

that's also something I prioritize and I

37:54

look for. But you know, I, to me,

37:56

taking a second to make your first

37:59

response be something. you could only say

38:01

to this profile I think shows

38:03

a level of care and

38:05

intention that that signals okay if

38:07

I if I write back this

38:10

person is more likely to reply

38:12

again rather than that they've sent

38:14

out 75 how is your

38:16

weekends yeah yeah fair I think the

38:18

only balance we're trying to make though is

38:21

like you get burnt out if you're constantly

38:23

doing that and then the people aren't responding

38:25

so you just have to find that balance

38:27

or yeah and not overthink the reaction right

38:30

it's like oh you you list this movie

38:32

it's like I love that movie right like

38:34

I haven't seen this like you know not

38:36

putting your pressure on that it has

38:38

to be something that is so mind-blowingly

38:40

hilarious or witty but that there's a

38:42

level of of personalization that I did

38:45

look at your profile. Like

38:47

I am engaging with you as

38:49

you rather than just like another

38:51

page. Sure. Yeah. I'll agree with that. I

38:53

like to say the most unhinged thing

38:56

possible. Well, and that's good. Such

38:58

as. Because you say wild stuff

39:00

in real life. Yeah. Yeah. My

39:02

absolute favorite one that I've said

39:04

before is that I matched with a

39:07

someone who all of his photos is

39:09

clear he was a basketball

39:11

player. And I just, my opening line

39:13

was what do you do for work? That's

39:15

hilarious. And they didn't write back

39:17

because that person doesn't like game sense

39:20

of humor. Right, exactly. That's an important

39:22

thing to know. Yeah. Or they were

39:24

like, game did not look at my

39:27

profile at all. Yeah. But the, I

39:29

mean. But that's a way to weed

39:31

people out. Like, that's always encouraged. Chevron,

39:33

like, make the joke. like say the

39:35

thing because if you're presenting yourself as

39:38

someone that you're not then like what

39:40

are we doing here you get to

39:42

date to in the moment you have

39:44

your real personality they don't find you

39:46

funny or interesting I was literally like

39:48

and then I wasn't even upset because

39:51

I was like no objectively that

39:53

was hilarious no I'm very funny I

39:55

get well I also like there's people

39:57

that will do like do you ever get like

39:59

lying Like, there was someone, what was

40:01

the one someone just did to me?

40:04

Do you have asthma? And then I thought

40:06

it was gonna be because you took my

40:08

breath away, but he said something like,

40:10

because of that asthma, like something like

40:12

ass and ass. It was like, no,

40:14

I just tried to find it, but

40:16

I can't find it, but it was,

40:18

he might have deleted it in shame.

40:20

But it was something where the, it was

40:23

like about my ass and not about, but

40:25

I said. Oh, because you took my, I

40:27

took your breath away. But then I was

40:29

like, then I wrote and I was like,

40:31

wait a minute. No, that would be. You

40:33

would not have asthma. Yeah. Why would I

40:35

have asthma? And then it just like went

40:37

off the rail. Too much thinking with that

40:40

one. I got one once. I forget what

40:42

it was exactly, but it's something about like

40:44

my ass. And it was like, I woke

40:46

up at like seven in the morning

40:48

because you also never know when

40:50

someone's going to read it. and I

40:52

woke up like half half asleep and like

40:54

saw this it just felt so disgusted by

40:56

it that like through the phone that was

40:58

like my reaction to it so I just

41:00

don't know sometimes how your stuff is gonna

41:03

land that's the one caveat there yeah they're

41:05

sending you that they're sending you that

41:07

message at 2 a.m and you're getting