0:00

Hey there friends and welcome to

0:02

welcome to of the Zoo Us. This

0:04

This week I'm joined

0:06

by an ecologist and wildlife

0:08

photographer with an eye

0:10

for a real small wonder, the

0:12

the dormouse. This This extra

0:14

cozy episode pairs really

0:16

well up in curling up

0:18

in a soft comfy

0:20

nest as we discuss

0:23

things like fluffy treetops snoozing,

0:25

treetop snoozing, charming little

0:27

forest bridges, exploding exploding nests

0:29

nests. The joy joy of finding beauty in your

0:31

own backyard and so much more. If If

0:33

you wanna play a fun game along with

0:35

this episode, try to count how many times

0:37

we say the words times or adorable. or I

0:40

don't know how many it is how I lost

0:42

count but I bet it's a lot. bet

0:44

it's a lot. Just of Us

0:46

presents presents Hazel Dormice Daniels.

1:20

Hello everybody. Ellen Weatherford with Zoo of Us,

1:22

your of us. review podcast for this

1:24

week. I'm very excited to be

1:26

talking about be talking about a stunningly

1:28

adorable little creature creature so excited to

1:31

learn more about. about. We have

1:33

a brand new friend this week.

1:35

This is week. This is Say hi, Holly.

1:37

Say hi, Hi. Hi. It's It's lovely to

1:39

be here. Holly, what are your

1:41

pronouns real quick? My pronouns My her.

1:43

Thank you so much. And before

1:45

we talk about our adorable little

1:47

critter this week, let's talk about

1:49

you. talk about what

1:52

has your path alongside

1:54

these amazing animals

1:56

been been What is

1:58

this journey into the

2:00

world of nature

2:02

been like for you?

2:04

you? It is being. super fun so

2:06

it actually started with the hazel dorm

2:08

ice which is very on brand so

2:10

I saw a picture of these guys

2:12

on Facebook for my local like country

2:14

estate and I was like I wonder

2:16

if they will let me come along

2:18

on a survey and see one because

2:20

I thought they were super cute and

2:22

I sent them an email and they

2:24

were like yeah sure come along and

2:26

so then I came on a survey

2:28

and then they were like do you

2:30

want to do a bat survey and

2:32

I was like yeah I'll do that

2:34

as well. And since then, I've just

2:36

been all into nature and wildlife, and

2:38

I do quite a lot of photography

2:40

now as well. I really think that

2:42

speaks to the power of just asking.

2:44

You know, we get so caught up

2:46

in our heads about, oh, I don't

2:48

know if I'm the right person for

2:51

this, I don't know if I should

2:53

ask, just ask. You never know. Sometimes

2:55

if you just ask, they can change

2:57

your whole world. Yeah, it really did.

2:59

I don't know what came over me.

3:01

I'm not normally that confident. I was

3:03

like, oh, yeah, I'll just send this

3:05

email. But yeah, it really did. The

3:07

blessing of Extroversion that every once in

3:09

a while, it visits you at its

3:11

own will, not at yours. You cannot

3:13

summon the spirit of Extroversion. It chooses

3:15

you. You do not choose it. But

3:17

sometimes, sometimes it grants you powers. I

3:19

want to talk a little bit more

3:21

about your photography because this is something

3:23

that you've posted a lot about online

3:25

and something before we hopped on this

3:27

recording I was looking at your website

3:29

at some of your just like breathtaking

3:31

photos. Could you talk to us a

3:33

little bit about how you got into

3:35

wildlife photography? Oh yeah of course yeah

3:37

thank you for stalking my Instagram and

3:39

my website. So I started photography in

3:41

the pandemic. I had a camera and

3:43

every so often I'd go out and

3:45

then during the pandemic obviously everyone had

3:47

loads of time and so I was

3:50

like maybe I should learn to use

3:52

the settings on this. So I watched

3:54

a few YouTube videos and then I

3:56

started pictures in our

3:58

garden, essentially, and

4:00

then it just and

4:02

And then I was

4:04

like, this is

4:06

amazing. I just get to

4:08

look at cute things and then

4:10

I get to take a picture

4:12

of them. And them and yeah it's then.

4:14

And I do mainly macro wildlife

4:16

photography, which just means close means close

4:18

Most people are with insects, but

4:20

I also like to do reptiles.

4:22

And of course and of course mammals like the

4:24

well and bats. as well a good

4:26

reminder that that... we think about nature

4:28

photography, I usually. about people

4:30

trekking off into a national

4:33

park, know, park, all over the

4:35

world to get these to

4:37

landscapes and stuff, but it's

4:39

a good reminder it's a good the

4:41

beauty of nature of right there. right

4:44

it's already in your yard in your yard, probably,

4:46

like you just got to get, close, real but it's

4:48

down there. It's down there. just You

4:50

zoom in. zoom in. you've just got

4:52

to got of pause and look around kind

4:54

what I kind of do. if I just

4:56

looking I just looking outside through my

4:58

window I'm like, oh, there's nothing

5:01

going on outside. if But if you

5:03

kind of go outside and look at

5:05

individual plants and stuff then you

5:07

start spotting things. And you're like, oh

5:09

my spotting wildlife everywhere. oh my God, there's

5:11

such wildlife that you might come

5:13

across if you're extremely lucky

5:15

and look real, real close real, real

5:17

our animal for this week

5:19

that I have to admit, to

5:21

I would venture to say I've

5:23

never heard of of because I feel

5:25

like door mouse is is like a

5:27

special term. heard I've heard of

5:29

like mice, I but I know if

5:31

I know you what a door you is. So

5:33

Holly, what is a hazel door what

5:35

is a door mice, they are very similar to

5:38

mice, they are very similar to

5:40

mice. a However, they're actually in

5:42

a different family, so they're

5:44

not related to mice, which is

5:46

really interesting. We the the call

5:48

them them hazel door mice, there is but

5:50

there is a few other types,

5:53

and they're basically native to Central Europe.

5:55

There's also one called, they've all

5:57

kind of got unfortunate names, names, there's

5:59

a fat door mouse. that's Lips in Central

6:01

Europe, which is essentially it's just

6:03

a bit bigger than a hazel

6:05

door mouse. Well come on, how

6:08

come the hazel door mice got

6:10

like the cutest most whimsical like

6:12

studio jibly Beatrix Potter name, and

6:14

then they're like the one that

6:16

is like slightly bigger, they're like

6:18

that's the fat one. I know,

6:20

it's just it's unfortunate, isn't it?

6:23

And then there's a there's one

6:25

as well called the edible door

6:27

mouse, which it's just really bad.

6:30

Because, and I was like, that's a

6:32

bit strange and I looked it up

6:34

and it's because the Romans used to

6:37

eat them and it's like, what were

6:39

they doing? That would also make me

6:41

wonder, why are these the edible ones

6:43

and like what makes them particularly edible

6:45

to earn the name? Like, is there

6:47

anything stopping you from eating the other

6:50

ones? I would think the fat dormice

6:52

would be a good contestant for being

6:54

eaten. I know, also I wouldn't think

6:56

there was much there to eat if

6:58

I'm honest. Not that big. That's true,

7:00

where's the protein on this thing? Yeah,

7:03

what are they doing? I don't know.

7:05

Very strange Romans, weren't they really? And

7:07

I would say that's one of the

7:09

least weird things they did, so honestly,

7:11

it's not that bad. Yeah, it's probably

7:13

not that bad, is it, really, in

7:16

the grand scheme of their lives. You

7:18

mentioned that there are quite a few

7:20

different species of door mice. Is the

7:22

little hazel door mouse? Is it particularly

7:24

different from the other ones or is

7:26

it kind of like a good representative

7:29

of the group? So the hazel door

7:31

mouse is actually the only door mouse

7:33

that we're meant to have in the

7:35

UK here. We do have a couple

7:37

of edible door mice in a small

7:39

part of the country that basically a

7:41

Victorian was like, these would be fun

7:44

if I put them in my garden

7:46

and he released those ones. But the

7:48

hazel door mouse is the only one

7:50

that's actually native to the UK and

7:52

in terms of these ones are... I

7:54

would argue they're the cutest ones. They're

7:57

a little golden brown and they're about

7:59

69 centimetres in length and they weigh

8:01

less than 40 grams. and they're just

8:03

really cute. Now I have Google the

8:05

picture of the edible dormouse. It's a

8:07

pretty cute little thing. They're pretty cute.

8:10

You know what they kind of look

8:12

like weirdly to me? They look like

8:14

a possum, but not the American o

8:16

possum. They look like the Australian possums,

8:18

but maybe like really tiny versions of

8:20

those. They kind of do, don't they?

8:23

They've got the same kind of faces,

8:25

the cute. ones you see in Australia.

8:27

Yeah, and now that's not to say

8:29

that our American opossums are not cute.

8:31

I think, well, there's flattering angles. There's

8:33

not so flattering angles. Like, let's not

8:35

kid ourselves. Maybe sometimes they look a

8:38

little bit better than other times, but

8:40

I am looking at these door mice

8:42

and I'm noticing that as opposed, because

8:44

you mentioned that they're not... closely related

8:46

to mice mice, mice, like the, what

8:48

do you call it? Moose, Muscalus, right?

8:51

Like the mouse mouse. And I'm noticing

8:53

right away a tail difference, because a

8:55

lot of people tell me, you know,

8:57

having worked in a pet store and

8:59

had pet rats and stuff, a very,

9:01

very common way that people would bulk

9:04

at like a mouse or rat would

9:06

be people would say, well, I don't

9:08

like the bald tails. I don't like

9:10

that the tails are bald. They don't

9:12

have any fur on them. The door

9:14

mouse is solving this solving this problem.

9:17

I feel like. It is, yeah, so

9:19

they say that this is the only

9:21

British mammal with a furry tail. I

9:23

would say that the squirrels have furry

9:25

tails, but apparently it's the hazel dormouse

9:27

that only have the furry tail. And

9:29

this is really how you can tell

9:32

if you see a hazel dormouse compared

9:34

to... every other type of mice that

9:36

we have. People phone up and they're

9:38

like, I've seen the hazel door mouse

9:40

and people are like, does it have

9:42

a furry tail? And they're like, well

9:45

you haven't seen one. But yeah, they

9:47

have a very fluffy tail that is

9:49

almost the same length as their body

9:51

and they kind of wrap it around

9:53

themselves when they sleep, which is adorable

9:55

completely. Google of hazel

9:58

dormice right now, and

10:00

there's not a

10:02

single bad pic- - - picture

10:04

of them. of every angle, every

10:06

possible photo. They're always cute, 24 24-7.

10:08

You You cannot catch them slipping. They're

10:10

like, like, I I don't know how

10:12

they do it. it. I I know,

10:14

I don't know would a bad angle would

10:17

look like for them because yeah you're Every

10:19

shot of them is just cute

10:21

and they have cute eyes eyes they

10:23

just sleep and it's very cute around.

10:25

around. a hundred % cute. feel like I feel

10:27

like their metabolism is just like

10:29

firing on all cylinders on cute

10:31

production. We've got crank out as much cute as we

10:33

can. as we can. If If this is anyone's

10:35

first time listening to this particular

10:38

podcast, what we do is we rate

10:40

animals out of out of 10 the categories

10:42

of effectiveness, ingenuity, and aesthetics. and So

10:44

the first category is effectiveness. is These

10:46

are physical adaptations, are things built into

10:48

the animal's body that let it

10:50

do a good job of the things

10:52

it trying to do. the Whether this

10:54

is do. Whether they can find and capture

10:56

their food or how they don't

10:58

become food themselves, things built into their

11:01

body. Holly, what do what do you give

11:03

Hazel dorm mice of 10 for for effectiveness. Oh,

11:05

for effectiveness. they spend a lot

11:07

of their lives asleep and you've

11:09

got to give it to

11:11

them. They're pretty good at it.

11:13

it to them. about pretty good of the

11:15

year spend about average. the year I

11:17

wish that were me. God, I wish that

11:19

were me. That's awesome. I would would

11:21

love to figure out how to

11:23

divert, like, way more of my

11:25

body functions to sleeping. I would

11:27

love to maybe... re some of my some

11:30

of my functions for sleep. So I said

11:32

that wrong, I think it's seven

11:34

months of the year, not of the year,

11:36

mean, that's still still a good chunk of

11:38

the year. mean, yeah, a A lot

11:40

of the year basically is spent The picture

11:42

that I saw on your website that

11:44

you had taken, they are not

11:46

just asleep. they are curled they are. a

11:48

perfect up into a perfect

11:50

little circle. a little like a little,

11:52

just a little It's really great.

11:54

a critter. It's really great.

11:56

I'm a big fan of

11:59

their sleeping. their sleeping. that is called tauper

12:01

so they hibernate over the winter and

12:03

they also every time that the weather

12:05

is bad or the temperature drops too

12:07

low they go into like a mini

12:10

hibernation called tauper which they're very effective

12:12

at so I would I'd say at

12:14

least a seven on effectiveness at sleeping

12:16

but yeah they they do that every

12:19

time the conditions aren't right so then

12:21

they can just rest essentially and then

12:23

they wake up again when it's warmer

12:25

and they go and find food so

12:27

they're very effective about And this also

12:30

seems really surprising to me for such

12:32

a small creature to do this because

12:34

when I think like small creatures with

12:36

these really high metabolisms like small mammals

12:39

I usually think of as being like

12:41

very fast metabolism very high energetic needs

12:43

and I guess it surprises me that

12:45

they are able to spend so much

12:47

of their time at rest. I mean

12:50

yeah they essentially I think they go

12:52

to sleep and then all the other

12:54

waking hours are spent looking for things

12:56

to eat so I don't know if

12:59

they have much time for anything else

13:01

but everything they do is very cute

13:03

you've got to give it to them

13:05

they eat mainly hazelnuts as the name

13:07

suggests oh okay that's a good name

13:10

for them then yeah That's so cute.

13:12

And I love hazelnuts too and hazelnuts

13:14

are like the cutest nut. So like

13:16

everything about it. It's just very cute.

13:19

They're so highly invested into being cute.

13:21

They're like, I'm even going to eat

13:23

the cutest thing I could possibly eat.

13:25

Yeah, the hazelnuts is mainly what they

13:27

eat. And you can actually tell if

13:30

a hazelnuts be eaten by a door

13:32

mouse because it leaves like a perfect

13:34

circle. and tiny little bite marks in

13:36

it, which is... God, of course it

13:39

does! Yeah, yeah, like, of course it

13:41

does! Of course it does! Of course

13:43

it leaves behind picturesque little, like, cartoon-like,

13:45

whole behind in the hazelnut. This is

13:48

a cartoon character. It looks like in

13:50

a lot of these pictures, it looks

13:52

like they're spending a lot of time

13:54

high up because you mentioned they eat

13:56

hazelnuts. Hazelnuts typically being found, you know,

13:59

high up in a tree. Is that

14:01

where they're spending most of their time?

14:03

So yeah, so hazel dormites are both

14:05

a boreal, which basically means they don't

14:08

come down to the ground and they're

14:10

also nocturnal, which means they're very tricky.

14:12

our nighttime. So it doesn't help them

14:14

be seen, but essentially they live in

14:16

hazel copis trees kind of where all

14:19

the roots and the or the bottom

14:21

of the tree is kind of condensed

14:23

and there's loads of leaves piled up

14:25

they'll build their nests in there in

14:28

natural habitats and then they don't ever

14:30

really touch the ground if they can

14:32

help it. There's a picture on the

14:34

Wikipedia article of one carrying a baby

14:36

around on the forest floor. And that's

14:39

pretty good. I'm pretty happy about that.

14:41

But another thing about like small critters

14:43

living high up in trees is that

14:45

a lot of times that like small

14:48

size can make them pretty good at

14:50

dealing with fall damage. Is that something

14:52

they have to worry about very often?

14:54

It's funny you should mention that because

14:56

on the last doormouse survey that I

14:59

attended, one did escape and we watched

15:01

it climb this tree and then it

15:03

kind of fell out the tree essentially

15:05

and we were all kind of shocked

15:08

for a second we were like oh

15:10

my god it's you know it's the

15:12

end oh my goodness and then it

15:14

just kind of got up and ran

15:16

back up the tree again and we

15:19

were like oh so yeah they must

15:21

be I mean I don't think they

15:23

fall out very often you'd hope they

15:25

wouldn't fall out very often but I

15:28

have but we did see one drop

15:30

quite a few meters and it seemed

15:32

fine so yeah I feel like that's

15:34

a good point for their physical effectiveness

15:37

right because like if they do fall

15:39

out of the tree they're fine It's

15:41

not that big of

15:43

I mean, it's an

15:45

inconvenience. I'm sure

15:48

it's annoying and quite

15:50

frustrating to the quite

15:52

mouse Because can

15:54

you imagine mouse because driving

15:57

to work like then

15:59

all of a

16:01

sudden and when you

16:03

get like right when you of

16:05

a sudden your

16:08

car a like falls

16:10

back to your house

16:12

and you have

16:14

to start your your

16:17

over again have to start your

16:19

whole commute over be useful, can it? it

16:21

can't wondering if kind of of what

16:23

we're finding so adorable about them

16:25

is those big giant eyes, because eyes

16:27

because I think nocturnal animal, nocturnal

16:30

mammal at least, at know, you I

16:32

think big eyes and eyes. to be And

16:34

that seems to be kind of

16:36

what they're working with here. Yeah, definitely,

16:38

in in proportion to the rest

16:40

of their head, head, they're definitely bigger

16:43

than, than, well, I wouldn't say what

16:45

is necessary necessary need them. But in

16:47

terms of in terms of their face, they're massive,

16:49

of of Disney-like. Maybe almost more than

16:51

is necessary because maybe they were

16:53

just like, we want to be a

16:56

little cuter. We really want to

16:58

test well with with the kid demographic.

17:00

We want to really up the

17:02

of of factor. factor. Yeah, they've definitely

17:04

got it nailed, would I would

17:06

say. You also mentioned that they're

17:09

nocturnal and they spend a lot

17:11

of time a up in trees, making

17:13

them difficult to find and to

17:15

see. Was that something that was

17:17

an obstacle? to photographing

17:19

them? them? Oh, so so. is cheating,

17:21

is well it's not not cheating, all

17:24

all of my pictures were

17:26

taken on door mouse surveys. surveys,

17:28

so actually quite endangered here

17:30

in the UK. in the And so

17:32

what big country estates and forest

17:34

management people do is they put

17:36

up up... looks like a backwards bird

17:39

box. So the So the hole is

17:41

at the back then they put

17:43

them on trees then then the

17:45

door mice climb up and they

17:47

build nests in there. And so

17:49

every month the the warmer seasons, and we

17:51

check the and we check the boxes to

17:53

see if there's dormice in there so all of my

17:55

all of my pictures were taken that way so

17:57

it's so it's essentially we we can monitor different

18:00

populations of them. Well that sounds like a

18:02

really fun job to have doesn't it you

18:04

get to just go peek on the little

18:06

guys as they're snoozing. It is a very

18:08

very cute day of the month I must

18:10

admit I'm just like oh yes hazel dormile's

18:12

date is upon us. You mentioned that they

18:14

are of conservation concern what's going on here

18:16

are there some threats that the hazel dormites

18:18

are facing? Yeah so... They are a very

18:20

protected species here in the UK so you

18:22

need a license actually to go about these

18:24

surveys and you have to complete a lot

18:26

of training to get it which it took

18:28

me three years to complete all the training

18:30

for it. So I am now licensed in

18:32

Dormice which is... It's a bit like a

18:34

James Bondi, I'm like, yeah, I've got a

18:36

license in Dormai's. Come on now. Do you

18:38

get to like carry a little badge around

18:40

that like when you're doing Dormai surveys, you

18:42

get to like get the little badge out?

18:44

Like, oh no, it's me, Holly Daniels, Dormouse

18:46

agent. I feel like I should have like

18:48

a card or something that says it. Dormouse

18:50

Inspector perhaps. But yeah, their population is... not

18:52

doing well because they live in the trees

18:54

and they're arboreal and they don't really touch

18:56

the ground it means that any habitat loss

18:58

where areas get cut off from other areas

19:00

means that the populations become isolated and then

19:02

they can't really the gene pool kind of

19:04

gets smaller because they can't they can't travel

19:06

anywhere so then they kind of get stuck

19:08

and their populations go down. There's a lot

19:10

of work to fix this in that people

19:12

are planting new woodlands all the time. But

19:14

this next bit, and I think you're going

19:16

to find this very very cute, because it's

19:18

so on brand for them, but in certain areas

19:20

of the UK, they've started building dormice bridges,

19:22

which connect habitats across motorways and things, which

19:24

is adorable. That is great, extremely whimsical, extremely

19:26

like fairy tale. Like, oh, this is our

19:28

mouse bridge. This is a little... bridge

19:30

that we built for

19:32

our mice. And also

19:34

reminds me of something

19:37

that has been going

19:39

on a lot. In

19:41

my home state of

19:43

Florida, they've been building

19:45

wildlife corridors for very

19:47

similar, probably elsewhere too.

19:49

That's just where I'm

19:51

most familiar with it happening.

19:53

Like, it for the

19:55

same reason, right? Like

19:57

bridging the gaps between

19:59

habitats that have been

20:01

fragmented. Yeah, they're basically

20:03

wildlife bridges or corridors.

20:05

That's what they're building.

20:07

But they're specific ones for

20:09

door mice, which is

20:11

adorable. I'm just I

20:13

can't help but imagine

20:15

the little guy with

20:17

like the like little

20:19

red writing hood sort

20:21

of cape and like

20:24

a picnic basket for

20:26

their grandmother. And they're

20:28

just like skipping across

20:30

this little cobblestone bridge.

20:32

And they're like, Oh,

20:34

I'm off to I'm

20:36

off on a journey

20:38

to go to these far

20:40

off lands. Like, you

20:42

can't help but just

20:44

assume the most whimsical.

20:46

Yeah, they're they're often

20:48

their little adventures all

20:50

the time. And it's

20:52

adorable. It's so shy.

20:54

They're they're so shy

20:56

or coded. You it's know

20:58

what I mean? Like,

21:00

they're hobbit adjacent. They're

21:02

giving hobbit, I feel

21:04

like. Yeah, they definitely

21:06

belong in that type

21:08

of Hobbit Narnia land,

21:10

don't they? Hi

21:14

there, we are going to take a quick

21:16

break to hear from a couple of our friends

21:18

on the Maximum Fun Network. When we get

21:20

back, we are rating ingenuity and aesthetics for Hazel

21:22

Dormais. So stick around. Have

21:26

you been looking for a new

21:29

podcast all about nerdy pop culture? Well,

21:31

I have just the thing for

21:33

you. Secret mysteries of nerd mysteries. Secret

21:35

histories of nerd mysteries is a

21:37

weekly pop culture history podcast hosted by

21:39

me host Austin and me host

21:42

Brenda. We've already tackled mystery such as

21:44

what happened to the puppets from

21:46

Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer. Is Snoopy

21:48

Mexican? And why do people hate

21:50

Barney so much? From theme parks to

21:52

cartoons to 80s 90s and 2000s

21:54

nostalgia, we tackle it all. Check us

21:57

out every Tuesday on MaximumFun .org and

21:59

wherever you podcasts. One

22:01

thing we all have in common, we

22:03

all have a mind. It makes

22:05

me so scared One thing

22:07

we all have in common, is we

22:10

all have a mind. to It makes

22:12

me so minds can be is the bad

22:14

thing going to happen? And minds can

22:16

be kind of unpredictable and eccentric. Everybody

22:18

wants to hear that they're not alone.

22:21

Everybody wants to hear that someone

22:23

else has those same thoughts. same thoughts.

22:25

with mode with is about how interesting

22:27

minds intersect with the lives and

22:29

work of the people who have

22:31

them. who Comedians, authors, experts, all sorts

22:33

of folks all to make sense

22:35

of their world. make not admitting

22:38

something bad if you say bad

22:40

if is scary. is scary. with

22:42

mode with John Monday Monday at

22:44

.org or wherever you

22:46

get you get podcasts. So

22:52

the the next category that we

22:54

rate animals on is ingenuity, which

22:56

are behaviors, things that they're

22:58

doing, maybe ways that they get

23:00

around their world, navigate, solve

23:02

problems that they face, things like

23:04

that. that what do

23:06

you give like that. for ingenuity?

23:08

you give I mean I

23:11

don't know how ingenious they actually are

23:13

know I feel like they take. are

23:15

because I They sleep they they

23:17

eat and they look

23:19

cute. and they eat and they look cute. So

23:21

not entirely convinced there's

23:23

much going on behind much going

23:26

on behind their cuteness.

23:28

You know, lots of sort

23:30

of cranial real estate being

23:32

dedicated to those big giant

23:35

cartoon character eyes, not a

23:37

lot of room left over

23:39

for a lot So left over for brain.

23:41

guess that's maybe a trade maybe

23:43

a Yeah, I think I definitely

23:46

traded something there. traded something there. So

23:48

maybe a five. I think that

23:50

might be a bit harsh. a

23:52

bit could generously leave room for

23:54

the possibility that what if

23:57

they're just. like playing

23:59

chess. chess? and doing like galaxy brain

24:01

calculus in their dreams. Like that's a

24:03

lot of time in REM sleep. Maybe

24:05

they've got some something sophisticated going on

24:07

in there. Yeah, they're they're secretly planning

24:09

something and it's just coming together so

24:11

slowly that we don't realize. They're biding

24:14

their time. They're like, just you wait.

24:16

Also, I would give them credit for...

24:18

spending all of their time doing my

24:20

two favorite things which are sleeping and

24:22

eating. Like I feel like if you've

24:24

really narrowed down your lifestyle into like

24:26

the two greatest joys in life and

24:28

just that's efficiency I feel like you've

24:30

really trimmed the fat from life. Yeah

24:32

I mean I would be rather doing

24:34

that than going to work so you

24:36

gotta give it to them for that

24:39

one haven't you really? They don't pay

24:41

rent. You think they you... I was

24:43

about to say do you think the

24:45

bills keep them up at night? I

24:47

mean, and they managed to, even though

24:49

their population's declining, they managed to get

24:51

it so that people are building them

24:53

houses to live in as well. We

24:55

think we're surveying them and it's like

24:57

a task for them, but actually they

24:59

come across these little boxes that they

25:02

can live in for free and they're

25:04

like, oh my god, this is perfect.

25:06

I didn't have to do anything. They

25:08

did all this for me. Oh no,

25:10

have we been domesticated? See, they've figured

25:12

out the true evolutionary pro strategy, which

25:14

is if you can be really, really

25:16

cute, humans will do anything for you.

25:18

They will bend over backwards. Humans will

25:20

do so much of the heavy lifting

25:22

for you. But yeah, they've got it

25:24

nailed. They've kind of min-maxed their effort

25:27

to enjoyment sort of lifestyle. They're like,

25:29

I will get maximum yield for minimum

25:31

input. I'm only doing the fun stuff.

25:33

Have you ever encountered like on any

25:35

surveys or anything like that? I know

25:37

you're you're not exactly catching them at

25:39

their best hour, right? I feel like

25:41

if someone Suddenly peered into my bedroom

25:43

in the middle of the night they

25:45

would be getting my best but I'm

25:47

wondering if either you've ever seen or

25:50

you've ever heard of a door mouse

25:52

doing something that like really surprised you

25:54

or really caught you off guard made

25:56

you go like huh that's interesting yes

25:58

so I'm not sure if it was

26:00

this spring or the spring before that

26:02

but we did usually what they're meant

26:04

to do is they go in these

26:06

boxes and they build themselves very cute

26:08

straw nests that about the same size

26:10

as a tennis ball. One year we

26:12

did, I opened a box and we

26:15

all kind of stopped and we were

26:17

like, oh no, there's a dead one

26:19

in here because it was, you know

26:21

when dogs kind of get so relaxed

26:23

that they kind of roll over on

26:25

their back and they've got their legs

26:27

in the air. That's what it looked

26:29

like and we were like, oh no,

26:31

this is so sad. And then we

26:33

were like, wait a minute, it's just

26:35

sleeping. It was just this really fat-looking

26:38

door mouse that clearly had a very

26:40

good night and had just had not

26:42

bothered building a nest. And so it

26:44

had just gone into this box and

26:46

like laid down on its back and

26:48

fallen asleep. But that was definitely an

26:50

unusual sight. I know that door mouse

26:52

was blist out. Listen, we just had

26:54

Thanksgiving here, stateside, and I think a

26:56

lot of people are extremely familiar with

26:58

the foodcoma app. Yeah, it had definitely,

27:00

it had an amazing night and just

27:03

gone the next day. Now, let's talk

27:05

babies, I mean, are they good parents?

27:07

Do they like take care of their

27:09

babies or the babies just kind of

27:11

on their own? Their babies are born

27:13

completely like hairless and blind and they

27:15

live in a little nest with the

27:17

mums. They get fur on like the

27:19

12 day. Oh, so they really have

27:21

to grow into it then. They're not

27:23

born cute. Yeah, no, they're not born

27:26

cute. They're not born with it. They

27:28

kind of look like jelly babies when

27:30

they're born and this is like and

27:32

they grow into the cuteness after about

27:34

six to eight

27:36

weeks. Oh, it's a

27:38

glow -up. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

27:40

it's a process. Are the Are

27:42

the parents, are

27:44

the good parents? Yeah, they

27:46

Yeah, they are, they

27:48

are. They look after

27:51

their little babies I

27:53

well as I

27:55

guess you could do

27:57

in you live in

27:59

the forest. They

28:01

usually have a a

28:03

single litter of like to

28:05

five and... I've never come

28:07

across one where

28:09

any of them have

28:11

like died so they're usually

28:14

all alive when

28:16

you find them. find them.

28:18

actually call it

28:20

like an exploding nest

28:22

because the little

28:24

babies kind of shoot

28:26

everywhere babies kind kind

28:28

of like, everywhere like because

28:30

they're goodness. of like oh my Yeah,

28:32

it's quite fun. Yeah But yeah,

28:34

the mum is always trying to

28:36

protect them. to protect them. Oh for

28:38

her. I mean, she's so little

28:41

she ain't got room for

28:43

that many. that Yeah, it's quite

28:45

impressive, really isn't it? Are they

28:47

up against very much? I feel

28:49

like maybe they've got some

28:51

predators to watch out for. predators to

28:53

watch out kind of so prey kind

28:55

here I take one if they

28:57

had the opportunity. the Oh, and

28:59

if you're nocturnal you're nocturnal and you're arboreal,

29:01

you're fully in owl in their

29:03

zone. you're like essentially, Yeah,

29:05

Stay away from owls

29:07

is from owls is the though,

29:10

isn't it? really there, isn't it?

29:12

of people have pet cats cats

29:14

cats if they came came

29:16

one would take one as

29:18

well one well. Listen, Dormice. I know

29:20

you're listening you're listening. out at

29:22

night. It's dangerous out there. 'all out there

29:24

y'all. out in the daytime so that

29:26

we can see you and take

29:28

cute pictures of you. see you your whole

29:30

cute pictures of you. into our time. Change

29:32

everything and you'll be time. Change Have you

29:34

tried daytime? be We love it up

29:36

here. You'd love it. it Y 'all

29:38

should try it. It's nice. It's nice. Now, okay,

29:41

so we have probably have probably shown

29:43

our hand a little bit with

29:45

the last category that we

29:47

rate animals on, but I really

29:49

feel like this is where

29:51

the where shines. This is where

29:53

they're bringing it home. is This

29:55

is aesthetics. It's just how nice

29:57

the animal is to look

29:59

at. at. whether that's cute cool beautiful whatever

30:01

you think of this animal holly what

30:04

do you give hazel dormice out of

30:06

ten for aesthetics i mean it's it's

30:08

got to be at least ten hasn't

30:10

it like if i left i can't

30:12

think of an improvement that could possibly

30:14

be made you just see them and

30:17

you're just like that is the cutest

30:19

thing that's ever been yeah i can't

30:21

i'm looking at this thing and i

30:23

can't think of a single change I

30:25

would make cuteness wise everything is like

30:27

perfectly proportioned everything is just exactly what

30:30

you want it to be even like

30:32

I mentioned earlier a lot of people

30:34

are not super into you know the

30:36

bald tail of a mouse or a

30:38

rat and this is really really has

30:41

that base covered because it's got the

30:43

furry tail too so like it really

30:45

has it all yeah they're they're really

30:47

covering every base there on though they've

30:49

just like max out on cuteness all

30:51

angles all angles Even like the color

30:54

of their fur, it's such like a

30:56

warm and cozy, like fall-toned, like it's

30:58

not just brown, like how like a

31:00

mouse would be like brown, it's like

31:02

a chestnut, warm, cute brown. Yeah, like

31:04

a cute sandy, goldeny color. I don't

31:07

know how they do it, and I

31:09

don't know what it is about the

31:11

human brain that sees this creature, and

31:13

is like, well, I love that. It's

31:15

something isn't it? It's like, oh I

31:17

just can't, every single picture you're just

31:20

like, it's... the cutest thing that I've

31:22

ever seen. You know, I've heard that

31:24

like the human reaction to finding things

31:26

cute is it's because of our instinct

31:28

to find human babies cute because like

31:31

we need to find human babies cute

31:33

in order to like have an instinct

31:35

to like protect them and take care

31:37

of them. So when we see an

31:39

animal that just happens to have features

31:41

like large eyes and a large forehead

31:44

and a small nose and mouth. like

31:46

there are certain visual. that tell our

31:48

brain, like, this has the proportions of

31:50

a human baby. Therefore, we need to

31:52

love this. We should want to protect

31:54

and, like, take care of this. I

31:57

feel like a lot of animals have

31:59

just really leaned into that. I mean,

32:01

obviously, not, like, intentionally, because they were

32:03

certainly like this long before humans were

32:05

around. But, like, I think it works

32:07

out in the animal's favor, because, like

32:10

you mentioned, humans have started building little

32:12

bridges and houses for them. So it

32:14

really works out in their favor. Yeah,

32:16

it has really helped them out, hasn't

32:18

it? I do wonder, are there like

32:21

animals in their habitats, like animals that

32:23

you've come across on your surveys, animals

32:25

in the UK? that maybe aren't benefiting

32:27

from the cuteness factor, because you could

32:29

use the hazel door mouse as kind

32:31

of like, you know, the flagship, like

32:34

the face of the operation, but I'm

32:36

wondering if maybe there's some other knot

32:38

as cute critters around that could use

32:40

the spotlight too. Yeah, that's what I

32:42

sneakily do, that with a lot of

32:44

my photography. People are like, oh, you're

32:47

a wildlife photographer. And I'm like, yeah,

32:49

look at this cute picture of a

32:51

hazel door mouse. And they're like, oh,

32:53

that's so cute. Do you have any

32:55

more pictures? And I'm like, yeah, look

32:57

at this picture of a snake. Oh,

33:00

you got Trojan horse. Yeah. I'm like,

33:02

look at this picture of a bat

33:04

next. Yeah. I'm really selling it to

33:06

these people. Look at this inside. Like

33:08

I promise they're cute too, but like,

33:11

you know, like you said, things like

33:13

wildlife corridors, right? Like bridging the gaps

33:15

between the habitats. I mean, yes, maybe

33:17

it's like motivated because people want to

33:19

take care and protect like these adorable

33:21

cute little furry things, but you know,

33:24

a rising tide lifts all ships. I'm

33:26

sure it's not just helping them. Yeah,

33:28

I mean everything can use, I mean,

33:30

it's not like they have a little

33:32

border each side of the corridor where

33:34

they're like, no, you're not a doormout,

33:37

you can't come through, so I mean,

33:39

they must help everything that kind of

33:41

comes. that way. Can you

33:43

imagine a little bouncer

33:45

at the bridge that's

33:47

like got a little a

33:50

little these of these

33:52

little Wikipedia photos of

33:54

a door mouse and everything

33:56

that tries to

33:58

cross over it just

34:00

holds the picture

34:03

up it's like holds the

34:05

know up it's gotta

34:07

have a little know you

34:09

gotta have a look a

34:11

bit suspicious a not

34:14

I'm not convinced not

34:16

I'm not convinced have the

34:18

a tail do you do

34:20

I see that the furry

34:22

tail? Can need to see some that?

34:24

I'm gonna need to see some tails sir. That

34:27

would be an unfortunate line to

34:29

take out of context. to take out a

34:31

context. Well, you you know a a

34:33

photographer and someone who really gets

34:35

up close and personal with these,

34:38

not just these creatures but like

34:40

also also local wildlife, what have

34:42

been your favorite moments of

34:44

finding beauty in your local UK

34:46

wildlife? I just love every

34:48

minute really. I just love being

34:50

outside outside it's just really lovely

34:52

because a lot of people think

34:55

that British wildlife is wildlife is

34:57

boring and not much here much here

34:59

have we don't we don't have... elephants

35:01

we don't have anything massive like

35:03

that we don't really we don't think

35:05

I also there's also nice in that

35:07

in that and can just go into

35:10

the forest go there's nothing that will

35:12

kill us nothing that will even could

35:14

hurt us could hurt get trampled by

35:16

a get mouse anytime soon hazel door mouse anytime

35:18

think it's really lovely that we

35:21

can that we out go out and

35:23

we can all the wildlife that we

35:25

have here. we have here because... so

35:27

much much that you, small

35:29

and yet it not be

35:31

as impressive traditionally

35:34

as other countries, there's There's

35:36

something really cute and lovable

35:38

about that. I I will say,

35:40

I I just had this conversation

35:42

with McLeod, who who is from

35:44

the podcast, Comfort Creatures. And

35:47

we were talking about like appreciating

35:49

our own local urban wildlife.

35:51

own And Ella is from the

35:53

from the And Ella mentioned something

35:55

that really occurred to me to

35:57

an animal that maybe, maybe y'all 'all

35:59

take. for granted and that is foxes. Foxes are

36:02

not like an everyday thing here. I would

36:04

lose my mind if I saw a fox.

36:06

I would be so excited and Ella was

36:08

like yeah we see them all the time.

36:10

Yeah they just walk around the any city

36:12

to be honest it's actually quite strange because

36:14

you go in the countryside and you don't

36:16

really see them but anytime you go into

36:18

a big city and they're just like walking

36:20

around during the day and you're just like

36:22

oh that's a fox going past there. I

36:24

would lose it. I would fully lose it.

36:26

I would be like, dear, are you guys

36:28

seeing this? Am I hallucinating? And I think

36:30

that's something that maybe, maybe if you see

36:32

it a lot, maybe it's something that doesn't

36:34

really catch your attention, but I think it's

36:36

something to be proud of. Also, also, you

36:38

guys have the cuter badger between the two

36:40

of us. Our badgers, ours are a little

36:42

scrungly. I'm going to have to Google on

36:44

American Badger look like... Look up American Badger

36:46

real quick. I saw a badger the other

36:48

week. Oh yeah, okay, I see it now.

36:50

Ours are a little scrungly. They kind of

36:52

look chunky, like they... I'd be scared that

36:54

it was going to run at me if

36:56

I saw one of those. Well they will.

36:58

They absolutely will. They're very mean. Yeah, so

37:00

I saw one of our badges, it was

37:02

on a university campus and it was just

37:04

eating an apple under a tree and it

37:06

just, it was a cute scene. Of course

37:08

it was. What is this whimsical fairy tale

37:10

island you live on? Do you like, do

37:12

you like, live in like a jibly movie

37:14

or something? This is crazy. It's just getting

37:16

cuter by the second, isn't it? Yeah. You've

37:18

got a badger eating an apple under a

37:20

tree up ahead. There's probably a little dormouse

37:22

with a hazel nut chewing a little circle

37:24

in it. Are y'all's badgers mean? I didn't

37:26

think they're me. I've never come across a

37:28

mean one. Ours are like notoriously white-faced. Like,

37:30

you want to give them a wide berth.

37:32

Ours are a little gnarly. I mean, I

37:34

don't think I'd approach, I'd try not to,

37:36

like, go towards one of us, but it's

37:38

not going to come towards us. They usually

37:40

run away from you. Yeah, I think that's

37:42

usually the protocol. I will. you know, go

37:44

on and on about, oh yeah, badgers are,

37:46

you know, they're gnarly and stuff like that,

37:48

but not too long ago, I was at

37:50

a zoo that had an American badger in

37:52

it, and this badger was really chill and

37:54

seemed really interested in all the people walking

37:56

by, and I'll be honest, that was the

37:58

cutest thing I saw all day. I think

38:00

maybe it's a photogenic problem. Maybe they don't

38:02

look very flattering in photos, but this thing

38:04

was pretty stinking cute. They're not like the

38:06

door mouths, they don't have, they can't be

38:08

here at all angles by camera, there's just

38:10

one angle that will work for them. And

38:12

it's just an unfortunate publishing thing that they...

38:14

It's a marketing issue really. They need to

38:16

try curling up in a little ball with

38:18

their little tail tucked in, that's what they

38:20

need to try. Everyone should learn that move,

38:23

that's a good one. Yeah, they need to

38:25

practice their poses. Yeah, they need to get

38:27

a modeling coach out there that's like, no,

38:29

okay, what you really want to do is

38:31

you want to, you know, hold your arm

38:33

like this and get your little tail tucked

38:35

in and they need someone out there teaching

38:37

them how to look good for the shot.

38:39

Yeah, definitely. Well Holly this has been so

38:41

much fun thank you so much for teaching

38:43

us about a hazel dormice in your local

38:45

wildlife for people who want to go see

38:47

the amazing pictures that we talked about today

38:49

and see more of your work where can

38:51

people go next? Basically everyone. So if you

38:53

just, my name on nearly everything is Nature

38:55

with Holly, so mainly on Instagram, but I

38:57

also have a little YouTube channel where you

38:59

can watch some of my adventures in wildlife

39:01

photography as well. Awesome, and I will have

39:03

links to everything in the episode description, so

39:05

anybody listening can just scroll down and click

39:07

through and see all of your work. Holly,

39:09

thank you so much for joining us. It

39:11

has been a delight.

39:13

It has been so lovely

39:15

to be here so

39:17

so thankful that you

39:19

gave me this opportunity

39:21

to talk about talk about the

39:23

they're just so cute

39:25

and I love doing

39:27

it. cute and I love thank

39:29

you so much. We

39:31

will talk to you

39:33

later. We Bye. talk to you

39:35

later. Bye. Bye. Thank you

39:37

all so much for

39:39

listening. I hope that

39:41

a charming little has mouse

39:43

has nice little in for

39:45

a nice little nap

39:47

in your heart. I

39:49

If you liked what

39:51

you heard today, I

39:53

hope you'll leave behind

39:55

some kind words for

39:57

us and a review

39:59

on your podcast you of

40:01

choice. out If you

40:03

want to hang out

40:05

with us online, we're

40:07

on Facebook, and Instagram to everything

40:09

Links to everything will

40:11

be in the episode

40:13

description. You can also

40:15

send me an email

40:17

at Just the Zoo of us.com. If you'd

40:19

like to.com. If you have

40:21

a cool animal you'd

40:23

like to hear us

40:25

talk about on their

40:27

show. We would like

40:29

to thank Maximum for

40:31

having us on their

40:33

network their their other amazing

40:35

shows like the ones

40:37

that you heard the

40:39

for here today. You

40:41

can go check those

40:43

out, learn more about

40:45

the network and how

40:47

you can be a

40:49

part of supporting our

40:51

show and get access

40:54

to our get access to only

40:56

bonus content bonus content over .org.

40:58

Finally, we would like

41:00

to thank thank for

41:02

our theme music. That's

41:04

all for today. We'll

41:06

see you next week. see

41:08

you next week. Thanks. Bye. Maximum

41:42

Fun. A A worker -owned

41:44

network of of -owned

41:46

shows shows. directly by By

41:48

you.