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3:42

back to our super special series

3:44

about your mother co -hosted by

3:46

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3:48

is a series devoted to bringing

3:51

attention and raising money for

3:53

a nonprofit called Every Mother Counts.

3:55

They work in nine countries

3:57

around the globe trying to help

3:59

more women survive pregnancy,

4:02

labor and delivery, and postpartum. When

4:04

I was with Christy in Tanzania

4:06

on this learning tour, I felt

4:08

determined that maybe if I asked

4:10

all the Kelly Corrigan Wonders listeners

4:13

out there if you would help

4:15

me draw attention and devote resources

4:17

to every mother counts that maybe

4:19

we could make a real impact

4:21

together. So today's guest

4:23

is Cindy Crawford. She is one

4:25

of the supermodels that's featured in

4:27

the Apple Plus Dacu series that

4:29

I just finished watching. She's a

4:31

total delight. She's always on time.

4:34

She's an entrepreneur and a philanthropist

4:36

in her own right, as well

4:38

as the cover girl we all

4:40

remember from the 90s. So without

4:42

further ado, here is my conversation

4:44

with Christy Turlington Burns and Cindy

4:46

Crawford. So

4:53

Cindy, we want to talk about

4:55

Jennifer. Jenny. Jenny?

4:58

Yeah, basically. I think the only

5:00

one who calls my mother

5:02

Jennifer is her husband now. Yeah,

5:04

she's Jenny. Right on. You

5:07

had a chemical engineering

5:09

scholarship to Northwestern? Yes.

5:12

Is that what she wanted for you? You

5:14

know, it's interesting. My parents

5:16

were very different. And

5:18

I think, you know, my

5:20

father was the role of giving

5:22

me my drive and ambition,

5:24

which was great. but my

5:26

mother was more of the

5:28

unconditional love. So I'm not really

5:30

sure. I think her number

5:33

one ambition for us honestly was to get

5:35

out of high school without getting pregnant or

5:37

arrested. I was like, set

5:39

the bar low because she got

5:41

pregnant when she was 16. So

5:43

I think that for her, I

5:45

don't think she even cared about

5:47

college. She didn't even know to

5:50

dream that big. So

5:52

I wouldn't say that was her ambition

5:54

for me at all It was just

5:56

to pursue my dreams, but it was

5:58

small, you I grew up in the

6:00

Midwest We didn't have big dreams Which

6:02

was nice because it was easy to

6:04

be happy easier to be happy. Yeah,

6:06

that's interesting 16. She became a mom

6:08

I think she was 17 when she

6:10

had my older sister, but 16 when

6:12

she got pregnant. So I know that's

6:14

what she didn't want. She was more

6:16

just trying to protect us from what

6:18

not to do. Yeah. Did that

6:20

make her feel like a sister more than

6:22

a mom at times? No, and

6:24

she never wanted that role. I mean, one

6:27

of the things that she always said is

6:29

you will have friends in your life, but

6:31

I'm your only mom. And so she wasn't

6:33

one of those moms that was trying to

6:35

be our friend. Was she

6:37

straight? Yes. Yes,

6:39

I would say, I mean, she didn't

6:41

like rule with an iron fist or whatever.

6:43

We were way more afraid of getting

6:46

like in trouble with my dad, but she

6:48

was strict, especially like in high school. If

6:50

for every minute we were late,

6:53

like if you're curfew with 11, every

6:55

minute you were late, you got grounded

6:57

one week. Wow. And it wasn't

6:59

according to your watch. It was according to

7:01

the microwave in the kitchen. So there was

7:04

no, like there's no debating it. And so

7:06

we would always come home. This is probably

7:08

why I'm, I'm just putting this together. This

7:10

is probably why I'm always early because I

7:12

was like, what if my watch is different

7:14

than the microwave, right? I mean, now we

7:16

have iPhones, but yeah. And the thing about

7:18

my mother was she stuck to it. One

7:21

of the great And I don't know

7:23

how she knew how to do this because

7:25

she never read a parenting book in

7:27

her life. Like she totally parented from instinct

7:29

was if she did do a punishment,

7:31

she kept it. But she

7:33

often would wait to give you

7:35

the punishment. She didn't punish you in

7:37

the moment. Like she wouldn't, you

7:39

know, in a rage. Yeah, and you're

7:41

grounded for two months. And then

7:43

the next day realized maybe that was

7:45

a bit extreme. She would wait

7:47

till the next day. and I think

7:49

give a reasonable punishment, but that

7:51

was it. There was no negotiating. Yeah.

7:54

That would be good advice. Like think about it

7:56

and make sure it's something that you can stick

7:59

with because it's hard to stick with a punishment. Oh

8:01

my God. It's like the family fights where you're

8:03

about to leave for Disneyland. Everybody

8:06

wants to go. Yeah. He's like, if you

8:08

don't get in this car right now, we're not

8:10

going to Disneyland. And I'm looking at him

8:12

across the top of the like, what are you

8:14

talking about? Well, in half the time the

8:16

punishments you threaten or give, our punishments for you

8:18

and the other people in the family as

8:20

well. So I think that she was pretty good

8:22

at not doing that. I mean, we

8:25

also didn't go to Disneyland. Too

8:27

far. Yeah, exactly. We couldn't drive

8:29

there from DeKalb. I think also that

8:31

waiting for a punishment is its

8:33

own special kind of torture. Oh, for

8:35

sure. Like if you over punish

8:37

a kid, then all of a sudden

8:39

the dynamic flips. to like,

8:42

I can't believe you're still out of control,

8:44

mom. You're the strictest mom in Piedmont,

8:46

California. Whereas if I just let you sit

8:48

and stew in your mistake, that by

8:50

the time you come to me tomorrow, you're

8:52

like dying to be released from that

8:54

horrible emotion of regret. Yeah, and I know

8:57

this sounds very like child abuse, but,

8:59

you know, we definitely were Spangs as kids.

9:01

Yeah, same, totally. But my

9:03

mother... she would say, go to

9:05

your room, you're getting a spanking. And

9:07

that waiting period to your point

9:09

was just like the worst. And you

9:11

would be sitting on your bed

9:13

like waiting. And it was funny because

9:15

my sister, I have an older

9:18

sister. And she was the type

9:20

that was more like that kid in

9:22

Kramer versus Kramer where he's not gonna give

9:24

in on eating the ice cream. My

9:26

sister was like, she's not gonna break me.

9:28

I would start crying when she walked

9:30

in the room, so I barely got anything.

9:32

I was like, okay, I'm sorry. But

9:34

of course, kids have different personalities and my

9:37

other sister just wasn't. Both parents were

9:39

spankers, because my dad was the spanker, that

9:41

was his job. My dad

9:43

was like the big gun, but I

9:45

think that you know, it was

9:47

a little bit like when your dad

9:49

gets home from work kind of

9:51

thing. But, and Christy knows this,

9:54

I have a brother who died and

9:56

he had leukemia and before we knew

9:58

he had leukemia, one of the symptoms

10:00

of leukemia is you bruise super easily.

10:03

And my dad had like swatted him,

10:05

but it left like a handprint on

10:07

him. And my mom freaked out at

10:09

my dad, like what, like you

10:11

can't be kidding the kids that hard, you know,

10:13

that's not a spanking. And my dad was like, no,

10:15

I swear I barely touched him. And

10:17

then later that week, we found out that

10:19

he had leukemia. So I think that

10:21

that was it. My dad was never could

10:23

spank again, which that would do it.

10:25

Yeah. So and, um, and so I benefited

10:27

from that. You know, I didn't ever

10:30

get spanked by my dad. And I, so

10:32

I do also think that that's like

10:34

a different, your mom, as much as she's

10:36

your mom, she's not as scary, at

10:38

least in our household as the dad. Yeah.

10:40

Just even size alone, right? Your boys, right?

10:42

Yeah. Yeah. I think that.

10:45

That's not as threatening. But

10:47

when your brother got

10:49

sick, it was

10:51

probably for each of you such a

10:53

hard thing to confront and to deal

10:55

with. But what do you remember about

10:57

your mom in those years and how

10:59

she carried herself or how she held

11:01

herself or how she handled the stress

11:03

and the sadness and the fear? Yeah,

11:06

I mean, so I was eight. My

11:08

older sister would have been 10. my

11:10

younger sister would have been four and

11:12

Jeff was like two turning three

11:14

when he got diagnosed and then he

11:16

was sick for two years and

11:18

I think during that time my mother

11:20

for sure they didn't want him

11:22

to stay in the hospital so she

11:24

would drive two hours to Madison

11:26

which is where he was treated every

11:28

day and then drive back and

11:30

so I just remember her I mean

11:32

we kind of had to get

11:34

pond off on aunts and uncles and

11:36

grandmas. Unfortunately, we had an extended

11:38

family in our town. And

11:40

she just was taking care of

11:43

Jeff. My dad was working to

11:45

pay for everything. And I think

11:47

that, you know, that definitely was a hardship

11:49

on the family, although we had enough

11:51

extended family around us that I didn't really

11:53

feel it as a kid. And I

11:55

didn't know. And we knew he was sick,

11:57

but we didn't really know what was

11:59

going on. I think when

12:01

he died, obviously, that

12:03

was devastating for the whole

12:05

family. I think

12:07

for my mother, she was able

12:09

and chose to really grieve

12:12

properly. She went to deaf and

12:14

dying courses. She has a

12:16

very strong faith. So

12:18

she was able to move through grief.

12:20

I think for my father, he had

12:22

to go to work three days later.

12:25

And so they just handled it

12:27

very differently. And I think

12:29

the way that I think

12:31

because my mom was home and

12:33

wasn't working at the time, she was

12:35

able to help us deal with

12:37

it. I remember when I had my

12:39

first kid and I was like, then I called

12:41

my mom and I was like, okay, how did

12:43

you survive? Because you

12:46

imagine losing a child until you have a child. And

12:49

even then, you don't want

12:51

to imagine it. But I remember

12:53

her saying, well, I had

12:55

three other kids looking at me

12:57

to lead them through this. I

13:01

think that because of us, she kind of

13:03

got out of bed and had to do,

13:05

just did what she had to do. Yeah,

13:07

like she was saved by daily

13:10

requirements. My cousin,

13:12

Kathy, lost her son and she said,

13:14

there was a day when I realized

13:16

like I'm still Lena's mom and I'm

13:18

still Maggie's mom. And somebody still has

13:20

to take satchel the dog for a

13:22

walk. And it was

13:24

like chopwood carry water, like the old

13:26

Buddhist saying. like that sometimes it's

13:28

all work. It's all you've got in

13:30

you is just chop wood, carry

13:32

water. So your mom

13:35

sounds kind of advanced for the

13:37

time, like going to counseling and

13:39

learning about grief and processing it

13:41

in a healthy way. Would you

13:43

say that? I think it was

13:45

more faith -based. So I

13:47

wouldn't know because I remember being 16.

13:49

I just thought the ultimate luxury was to

13:51

have like a therapist. I don't know

13:54

where I got this idea. And

13:56

I like begged for it. And my mother was just

13:58

like, are you out of your mind? Like we

14:00

can't afford that, you know, it was kind of thing.

14:02

But I just thought, wow, the luxury

14:04

of having someone to go talk to, you

14:06

know, about your problems. And that just

14:08

wasn't in our lexicon as a family or

14:10

in our budget. So you were that

14:12

person in the family to break the mold,

14:14

I think. Yeah. Yeah, definitely in that

14:16

way. Although my sister is like, you know,

14:18

as I'm sure yours too, like just

14:20

life and the world has evolved so much,

14:23

like it isn't such. or

14:25

whatever it was then, like no one was

14:27

doing that then. Right. So

14:29

it would be the biggest secret in town. Yeah.

14:31

Like people would whisper it, but you know, like

14:33

having breast cancer used to be a secret. Right.

14:36

You know, it'd be like cancer. Right. Yeah. is

14:38

so odd to me that people weren't,

14:40

I don't know, asking for what they

14:42

needed and openly taking care of each

14:44

other and themselves. I mean, that's what

14:47

birth is too, by the way. Nobody

14:49

would talk about their like difficulties or

14:51

challenges in pregnancy, which is part of

14:53

the problem as well. I

14:55

was gonna say before that when you're eight

14:57

years old and you have a two -year -old brother,

14:59

likely you and your sister's thought like, that's

15:01

our baby, right? Because you become, I mean, when

15:04

you have a younger sibling that has that

15:06

much of an age difference, I'm sure

15:08

you remember your mom pregnant. Yeah, oh,

15:10

for sure, yeah. I'm sure you

15:12

remember him coming home and him being

15:14

the one boy. I'm sure you

15:16

were all like little mommies. Yeah, I

15:18

guess I definitely, we felt, We

15:21

knew my parents like I'm not sure

15:23

they definitely wanted four kids, but they

15:25

wanted a boy my dad wanted a

15:27

boy so That you know the fourth

15:29

was the boy and I think that

15:31

there was a lot of guilt I

15:34

was talking about this with someone yesterday

15:36

who's who lost a sister that there's

15:38

like that survivor guilt of the other

15:40

kids and especially because we knew that

15:43

My dad really wanted a boy and we

15:45

felt like well it should have been

15:47

one of us and it was so weird

15:49

like for years my sisters and I

15:51

would all have like these same nightmares about

15:53

like They're too long and boring to

15:55

get into but that it should have been

15:57

one of us and just recently I

15:59

was doing some coaching through COVID I actually

16:01

had time to like do real work

16:04

and I realized that One of the questions

16:06

the coach asked me was something like

16:08

what did you need to hear at that

16:10

time that you didn't hear? and

16:12

I realized, and my mom wouldn't have known to

16:14

say this, she was 26 years old and had

16:16

just lost a child and whatever, but

16:18

I needed to hear, yes,

16:20

we're so sad that Jeff died,

16:23

but we're so happy you're here. And of

16:25

course my mom didn't know how to say

16:27

that, but then through doing the work on

16:29

myself, I was able to ask my mom

16:31

to say that now as an adult, you

16:34

know, just to kind of close

16:36

the loop on that feeling. How

16:39

was it? It was great. And

16:41

I was there with my sisters. And

16:43

it was, you know, of course, like

16:45

it wasn't like the staring in

16:47

the eyes, like serious moment, but it's

16:49

still, the words still resonated in

16:51

a way because it was just like

16:53

realizing, I think that's, you know,

16:55

talk about what we don't talk about.

16:57

We don't talk about death in

16:59

our culture and we don't talk about

17:01

it. What do you say to

17:03

someone when they lose someone? Like my

17:05

friends, my kids have both lost

17:07

friends, sadly through car accidents and, you

17:09

know, fentanyl and, you

17:11

know, all the crazy stuff that

17:13

these young kids are experiencing now. And

17:16

they're always like, what do we say, you

17:19

know? And, you know,

17:21

I try to give them words

17:23

because but... when I went back to

17:25

school after my brother died and

17:27

that one person said one thing to

17:29

me. No kidding. Except for one

17:31

kid was like, I saw

17:33

in the paper your brother's dad,

17:35

is that true? And I was like,

17:37

whoa, it was like so in

17:39

your face, but he didn't know what

17:41

to say. We were in third

17:43

grade. So modeling for our children those

17:46

skills of not being afraid, kind

17:48

of like, I haven't found anything better than this,

17:50

but what I always say, is I

17:52

can't imagine what you're going through. Because even

17:54

if someone's dad died and your dad died,

17:56

it's different for them. So I can't imagine

17:58

what you're going through. And if there's anything

18:01

I can do to help or if you

18:03

wanna talk, I'm here. That's it. Sometimes they

18:05

don't, but sometimes that opens the door. But

18:07

a lot of people just kind of ignore

18:09

it or they don't wanna bring it up,

18:11

they don't wanna upset the person. And

18:14

I, for me anyway,

18:16

I don't feel like

18:18

that's inviting an opportunity

18:20

to, Cry, laugh, share,

18:22

whatever. Yeah, I feel like the

18:24

one thing I learned from Kathy

18:26

is she loves hearing Aaron's name.

18:29

Yeah, but some people don't.

18:32

Like for some people, it's really hard, you

18:34

know? Yeah, yeah. And I

18:37

do think a lot of that

18:39

is how well you've done your

18:41

grieving work, because you really do

18:43

have to go through it. Yep,

18:45

yep. When you hear your

18:47

mother's voice in your head, what's

18:49

she saying? Like, what was her

18:51

classic refrain? Cynthia Ann? No,

18:53

just kidding. My

18:56

mom has so many. Her greatest

18:58

quote that I quote all the time

19:00

now is, she talks about when

19:02

you're showing up for your kids. It

19:05

would be more, I guess, if you

19:07

were to be the perfect... mother -in -law at

19:09

a wedding, right? She's like, show up,

19:11

shut up, and wear beige. That's

19:14

a t -shirt. Yeah, I know. Because she's

19:16

just like, it's not about you. You

19:19

just don't want to stand

19:21

out. And the other great, the

19:23

best advice my mom ever

19:25

gave me was don't give advice

19:27

unless asked for. So

19:29

like with my kids, they

19:31

know if they ask me, they're going

19:33

to get my real opinion. But

19:36

if they don't ask me, I

19:39

really try hard and I'm probably about

19:41

70 % good at this. I

19:43

try not to offer unsolicited

19:45

advice. Yeah, I once was

19:47

talking to Annie Lamont, the

19:50

writer, and she has

19:52

this thing that she says to herself

19:54

about her grandkids, which is weight, W -A

19:56

-I -T, which in her mind stands

19:58

for why am I talking? It's

20:02

just not interested in

20:04

your take unless they specifically

20:06

ask. That's a good

20:08

acronym for any time. When

20:10

you first meet somebody that like

20:12

nervous over talking. Or most dinner

20:15

parties like when you just find your

20:17

filling in the spaces or whatever. But

20:19

your mom sounds super pragmatic and practical

20:21

and like sensible and you have a

20:23

lot of that about you. I

20:25

mean I can't see you saying like

20:27

shut up and whatever. But I can

20:29

see you being just, you're very practical

20:31

and you always have been. Yeah, I

20:33

definitely feel that was the environment that

20:35

I was raised in. And I mean,

20:37

I think of my mother's that way

20:39

because her mother was that way. You

20:42

know, just kind of no nonsense. So

20:44

I guess so. I am that way. What

20:47

did your mother think of your career? Let's

20:51

see. I'm trying to think. Because

20:53

my mother didn't care about

20:55

school, really. I mean, like, back

20:58

to that point was her dream for me

21:00

to be in chemical engineering. I don't think she,

21:02

she didn't even take me to college. It's

21:04

not like today when we, like, fill out forms

21:06

for our kids. Take a vacation week. She

21:09

was like... Hindergarten graduation. I

21:11

drove myself and set up my dorm

21:13

room. Like, she never, I wasn't there

21:15

very long. I dropped out, but she

21:17

never even came to Northwestern. Like, she

21:19

never even saw me because It was

21:21

kind of like year 18. She's like,

21:24

I was a mother by 18 living

21:26

my own life. Like you don't, you

21:28

know, I don't need to baby you.

21:30

And I had already started modeling. So

21:32

I was probably more independent than average

21:34

18 year old. But so she didn't

21:36

really care about school. So

21:38

she, I don't

21:41

think she really understood it. You know,

21:43

she was a little scared. I

21:45

think when I started traveling, like, you

21:47

know, just that I would be

21:49

safe. But she did give

21:51

me, I remember, so I

21:53

started modeling in Chicago. And

21:56

in Chicago, it's like, it's a small

21:58

pond. So I was the big fish

22:00

pretty quickly there. And I was making

22:02

more money than my parents made and

22:04

like more money than they could ever

22:06

have been dreamed of. Instantly. Yeah, well,

22:08

you know, but quickly within a year.

22:11

Yeah, at 18. Yeah, and. That's weird.

22:13

Yeah. That's a weird situation, Evanne.

22:15

Yeah. And then I had, you know,

22:17

my own apartment. And I

22:19

was working with the big photographer there every

22:21

day. And then New

22:23

York started, the allure

22:25

of New York started pulling me. But

22:27

I definitely was afraid leave. And all the

22:29

therapists in New York. Yeah, I didn't

22:32

even consider that. Actually, funnily enough, I never

22:34

even got one in New York. But

22:36

this idea, I was afraid to go

22:38

to New York. And again, my mother

22:41

was like, well, what's the worst thing

22:43

that can happen? You just come back.

22:45

And I think that was very... freeing

22:47

for me because I was like, yeah,

22:49

you're right. I mean, yeah, okay, I

22:51

might have to come back with my

22:53

tail between my legs for a minute,

22:56

but I'll still have done it. And

22:58

so that enabled me to feel like

23:00

I wasn't, okay, I'm going to New

23:02

York and I can never look back.

23:04

It was like, let me give it

23:06

a try. Yeah, I'll dip my toe

23:08

in. Yeah. And obviously it worked out.

23:12

For either of you,

23:14

did having Al this

23:16

income at a young age that

23:18

was potentially like dwarfing your parents

23:20

income create distance or weirdness or

23:22

Awkwardness or it seems like a

23:24

complicated thing to actually think about

23:26

this morning I was like I've

23:29

never talked to you about this

23:31

because we both have sisters We're

23:33

both middle sisters of the three

23:35

It definitely creates a lot of

23:37

weirdness I would say but at

23:39

the beginning I felt like I

23:41

was suddenly like an equal with my dad.

23:43

And it made me feel very much like

23:45

the boss. And eventually when

23:48

my dad wasn't well, I kind

23:50

of navigated his health care. I was

23:52

the person that was like, I'll

23:54

have the answers, I'll get the right

23:56

person. And so that felt good

23:58

and it felt empowering. But ultimately for

24:00

the rest of the family, it's

24:02

very disorienting and it's caused lots of

24:05

tension in my relationships with them

24:07

because there's expectations of me like

24:09

a father and I'm just a sister, just

24:11

another girl in the family. There's

24:13

nothing special. I don't know if

24:15

you've had that with your sisters.

24:17

Yeah, I think mine was different.

24:19

My parents were divorced. So

24:22

I'm trying to think when

24:24

I first started making like

24:26

real money, I think my

24:28

dad was like, because

24:30

I had that I did kind of feel

24:33

like then I was the son. In

24:35

a weird way because he was

24:37

like like when I got married and

24:39

I didn't change my name. He's

24:41

like, yeah, you know, like Crawford name

24:43

will go on I Was able

24:45

to help where I could I don't

24:48

I don't feel like I became

24:50

like the dad and I don't know

24:52

how my sisters like do not

24:54

have expectations. I mean, obviously I've been

24:56

able to take them on nice

24:58

vacations. And if they needed a down

25:01

payment for a house, I can

25:03

loan, you know, you can, you can

25:05

do stuff to help. But I

25:07

think again, I think it was my

25:09

mom, it was like, don't ever

25:11

change their lifestyle because then you are

25:13

signing up for it for the

25:16

rest of - Guilty, I did that.

25:18

Okay, so I didn't. And there's maintenance.

25:20

Well, in a weird way, it

25:22

can emasculate their husbands. If

25:24

I'm giving my sister a nicer

25:26

ring than their husband gives them

25:28

or something like that, it just

25:30

becomes this weird thing. So I

25:32

was more about giving experiences and

25:34

then helping them for a down

25:36

payment on a house or something

25:38

like that. And then my sisters

25:40

have been awesome because they've always

25:42

paid it back. But that navigating being

25:45

kind of like in that financial

25:47

position where you could do a

25:49

lot is tricky. Yeah.

25:53

Yeah. What's something really

25:55

beautiful about your mom? She

25:57

has a lot of reasons that she

25:59

could be bitter, you

26:02

know, from losing my brother,

26:04

messy divorce. And she's

26:06

just not, she's a glass half

26:08

full person. I used

26:10

to call her Pollyanna, and

26:12

I really meant it as an insult. And

26:14

my mom's not a big reader or big

26:16

vocabulary person, so she probably didn't even know

26:18

that I was saying it in a mean

26:20

way. But as I

26:22

got older, I realized that it's

26:25

a compliment that she really chooses to

26:27

see the best in people and

26:29

the best in every situation. And

26:32

she's a great grandmother to

26:34

all her grandkids, and

26:36

she has a really Dirty sense

26:38

of humor, which I She does?

26:41

Pollyanna does? That's a

26:43

good detail there. And even like, so

26:45

of course, whenever I say anything like

26:47

that, my kids tease me. They're like,

26:49

oh my god, you're turning into grandma

26:51

Jenny. But now my kids have

26:53

it as well. So it's just funny. It's

26:56

just like surprising sometimes from

26:59

grandma, and that's fun. That's

27:01

hilarious. I was

27:03

going to ask what three words or

27:05

adjectives would describe her? best to

27:07

you as a teenager or as a

27:09

kid growing up. When I

27:11

was a teenager? Oh

27:14

wow. Like

27:16

she was

27:18

there. Like present

27:20

I guess would be one

27:22

like from Girl Scout cookies to

27:24

you know showing up at

27:26

our softball games. You know

27:28

she just really she took her role.

27:31

She's very proud to be a mom and

27:33

she took that role very seriously. I

27:35

would say I guess strict

27:37

but like not in a mean

27:40

way but just yeah and then

27:42

I mean it was weird in

27:44

high school because we were four

27:46

young I mean at that

27:48

point she was not not a

27:50

friend in terms of she still

27:52

had the rules but she was

27:54

also dating I was dating

27:56

my sister like we were like

27:59

sharing one bathroom fighting over curling

28:01

irons so It was

28:03

yeah, I had like an interesting

28:05

relationship with my mom because there

28:07

is that level. We're so close

28:09

in age, you know, but She

28:11

knew when to be a mom

28:13

and then I think because she

28:15

laid that foundation like now We're

28:17

able to be more friends, but

28:19

still like I was just with

28:21

her and my two sisters. We

28:23

were all in Florida together And

28:26

we still defer to her, you know, like

28:28

she's still the queen in a cute way.

28:30

I mean, we make fun of her, of

28:32

course, too, behind her back, but sorry, mom.

28:34

And on this podcast. But anyway, anyway, anyway,

28:36

moving on. Well, we're all

28:38

like, like my sisters and I, and I

28:40

don't know if you guys have this, but we're

28:42

like, if we ever start doing that, whatever

28:44

something my mom will be doing, we're like, please

28:46

tell me I'm doing that. Yeah.

28:49

I just started cleaning the counters,

28:51

like underneath people's hands. like

28:53

when they're still at the counter eating

28:55

and I just can't take it. It's like

28:57

a big smear of pesto and I

28:59

just have to say, just lift your hand

29:01

and like a waitress who's scooping the

29:03

breadcrumbs or whatever, like mid meal. And

29:06

Edward kind of looks at me like, I

29:08

was supposed to tell you when you

29:10

were doing something like this, like this is

29:12

not relaxing for me. That's

29:14

funny. When do you feel like you

29:17

need her most now? I

29:20

can't even, she's so busy now.

29:22

Like she's remarried and they are living

29:24

their best life. I feel like

29:26

she's finally got, I mean,

29:28

my mother and father got married

29:30

so young and they had, that was

29:32

definitely my mom's first love and

29:34

all that, but the man she's married

29:36

to now like adores her and

29:38

they don't have the, you know, having

29:41

kids is the greatest thing. sometimes

29:43

I don't think it's the greatest thing on

29:45

a relationship. Yeah. Because it can

29:47

be very stressful, especially if you

29:49

were parented differently and your ideas about

29:51

parenting are different or whatever. So

29:53

they don't have shared children and they

29:55

are just, they're both retired and

29:57

they just do whatever they want all

29:59

the time. But when

30:01

do I need her now? I

30:06

guess just, I more just

30:08

like to check in with her to see how

30:10

she's doing because like when I know she's

30:12

Good. I'm

30:14

like, okay, good. And I'm so grateful for

30:16

her husband. I'm like, Charlie. Yeah,

30:19

you're really lucky with that. I am

30:21

because he adores her. And like even,

30:23

like I was talking to them last

30:25

week and like if one of them

30:27

has a doctor's appointment, like that's their

30:30

outing for the day and they go

30:32

to lunch afterwards. Like they literally make

30:34

going to the doctor. social

30:36

events, which is probably what

30:38

you have to do as you get older. Instead

30:41

of, they don't treat it like, oh, we have to

30:43

go to the doctor again. It's like, okay, we're going to

30:45

the doctor, and then we're gonna stop by here, and

30:47

then we're gonna, you know. So

30:49

I don't, not that I don't

30:51

need her, because I love knowing

30:53

that she's there. I

30:55

do think that a lot of

30:57

my life, I think

30:59

more than the money in a way is

31:01

your life. My life is so different

31:04

than how I was raised. And

31:06

in the same way that I really can't

31:08

give my kids advice on social media, because

31:10

they're way better than me, I

31:12

feel like my life has a

31:14

lot of pieces in it that

31:16

are so foreign to my mother

31:18

that she can't really give me

31:20

advice. But just that kind of

31:22

unconditional love, I think is probably

31:24

the biggest gift my mother's ever

31:26

given me. And that I still

31:28

feel that even though, yes, I'm

31:30

a grown woman. you

31:33

know, my life is working, but

31:35

just knowing that she's still there.

31:37

And I also really appreciate this

31:39

about my mom and my sisters

31:41

that, you know, they

31:43

knew me back then. So they're

31:45

the ones like, if

31:47

ever even for one second, I

31:50

get like a little too, you

31:52

know, feeling myself a little too much. They're the

31:54

ones that will definitely call you out and put

31:56

you in your place. Yeah. They

31:58

also, it sounds like your

32:00

mother gives you someone to

32:02

love unconditionally, which is such

32:05

a joy to finally accept

32:07

your mother and love her

32:09

as she is and enjoy

32:11

her wellbeing and kind of

32:13

get off on her good

32:15

days. It's

32:17

fun to be in that

32:19

secondary position. Yes, and

32:22

that she modeled what unconditional

32:24

love looks like so

32:26

that I feel I

32:28

didn't have any trepidation at all

32:30

about becoming a mother because I had

32:32

my own mother that I know

32:34

was a great mother. And I saw

32:37

both of my sisters become mothers

32:39

before me, and they were amazing. So

32:41

I was like, oh, yeah, I

32:43

can do this. And I think that

32:45

was an incredible gift. Yeah. Because

32:47

I do know a lot of, I

32:49

have friends who maybe weren't mothered

32:52

in a way that they felt

32:54

good about and then that makes them

32:56

afraid to become mothers. Like they don't feel

32:58

like they have it in them maybe

33:00

or they're worried that they're going to make

33:02

the same mistakes that their mother's made

33:04

or the opposite mistake because they're going to

33:07

be reacting to something that they're not

33:09

good. It needs to be modeled

33:11

like most things really. If you see

33:13

it you know it exists and you know how

33:15

to behave but otherwise a lot of people really

33:18

have parents that they just don't know

33:20

how to parent because somebody was

33:22

missing or somebody was traumatized or somebody

33:24

was damaged and we carry that

33:26

over. Yeah, it's interesting to

33:28

think about every mother counts because

33:30

in this way that you're talking

33:32

about that a mother can sort

33:35

of pave the road or cast

33:37

a really long shadow. Oh,

33:39

absolutely. I've been thinking about this a lot

33:41

lately because so much going on in the

33:43

world as we all know and I was

33:46

thinking like, how can we help? And

33:48

I love what Christy's been doing

33:50

with every mother counts for so long.

33:52

But it's like the idea that

33:54

mothers are so powerful, right? And

33:57

like if every mother

33:59

taught their child love

34:01

instead of hate and

34:03

self -love, I do

34:05

really believe that mothers

34:07

have the ability to change

34:09

what's going on in

34:11

the world right now. And

34:14

I'm like, okay, so I'm like, that's a

34:16

big idea. Now, how do I change that?

34:18

And it's not about, you know, what you're

34:20

doing so great, but you have to raise

34:22

a lot of money. This is not raising

34:24

money. This is - Consciousness. Consciousness for mothers. Let's

34:27

teach our children that as

34:29

humans, we're all more alike than

34:31

we are different, and that

34:33

every life has worth. That's pretty

34:36

simple, but like, how do

34:38

we get that message? everywhere,

34:40

like every corner of the earth. That's

34:42

what we're trying to do, right? Yes.

34:44

Because, you know, to your point, like,

34:46

we've been working on making pregnancy and

34:49

childbirth safe, but that's just the beginning.

34:51

That's the baseline. Yes, that should be.

34:53

Those are human rights. Women should be

34:55

able to feel safe and supported when

34:57

they bring life into the world. But,

34:59

like, we all know, right, this is

35:01

an endurance sport. We're mothers for the

35:03

rest of our days. And because of

35:05

that, We need

35:07

more respect and more acknowledgement

35:10

of just the very

35:12

basic but really important critical

35:14

things that we do

35:16

to shape life, to shape

35:18

morality, to shape decision

35:20

making. Like we are the

35:22

North Star. I mean, I

35:24

hate to use that because it's used so much, but we

35:26

are the North Star for our families, for our children. And

35:29

I think what you're saying is a piece of

35:31

what we're trying to do as well. We're just

35:34

sort of just trying to get people in

35:36

there safely first. But

35:38

there's so much more. There's so much

35:40

more. Sort of like Maslow's

35:42

hierarchy to me. Like if you were to

35:44

apply that to society, it's

35:46

like level one is like, let's

35:48

make sure that everybody can

35:50

be born safely and that we

35:52

can hold on to their

35:54

moms for them. And in that

35:57

moment, let's demonstrate that we

35:59

as a society recognize the potential

36:01

of this population of people,

36:03

these mother people to make right.

36:05

what is not right at

36:07

this moment. I

36:10

kind of love the name

36:12

Every Mother Counts, because I believe

36:14

it's a sentence and a

36:16

mission unto itself. And

36:18

it's like the greatest

36:20

understatement of all time. No

36:23

kidding. Imagine what would

36:25

happen if you were to pull this piece

36:27

from the picture. Imagine how

36:29

much work has to fill in around

36:32

a kid. to develop

36:34

them in a way that society

36:36

can be better than it is

36:38

right now. There are all

36:40

these studies too about other, you know,

36:42

horrible war times, right, where children were

36:44

separated from their parents because of bombing

36:46

and, you know, horrific things for their

36:48

safety. And they say that it was

36:51

more traumatizing to be separated from their

36:53

mothers or their parents generally, their family,

36:55

what they knew to be home than

36:57

to be... out to the country and

36:59

not hear the sounds and not see

37:01

the horrific events of war. And I

37:03

always think about that because it's true

37:05

like home is in fact where your

37:07

heart is or it is where that

37:09

person is that is the most important

37:12

person that's going to tell you that

37:14

you're safe that's going to tell you

37:16

that it's going to be okay tomorrow

37:18

you know the way you're describing when

37:20

your brother passed it's like you seeing

37:22

your mom wake up the next day

37:24

and make breakfast and take you to

37:26

school, that's how your universe becomes right

37:28

again. And I feel like we forget

37:31

that somehow, even though we kind of

37:33

all know in our gut that that's

37:35

what it should be. Yeah, I

37:37

guess we, it's like

37:39

how everything is a pendulum, right?

37:41

And so we are in

37:43

the generation of parents that we

37:45

wanted to protect our children

37:47

from every bump in the road.

37:49

And then they don't get

37:51

an opportunity to develop those coping

37:53

mechanisms and muscles and so

37:55

really we've like deprived them of

37:57

their development and then we

37:59

have like a bunch of spongy

38:01

you know 20 year olds

38:03

and then we're mad that they

38:05

haven't adopted but we've been hovering

38:08

around them, like doing everything

38:10

them. Like I remember, like

38:13

when we were kids, under the monkey bars

38:15

was cement, right? It was like,

38:17

and my sister broke her arm and guess what?

38:19

She didn't do it again and I didn't

38:21

do it because I was like, that doesn't look

38:23

fun. But now like every playground is all

38:25

cushion, right? Like we have like this, we run

38:27

around with mattresses under our kids to make

38:29

sure they don't fall. And it's

38:31

all out of love 100%. But

38:33

I mean, and I think the

38:35

research is like, so clear that

38:37

if we do that, we are

38:40

not helping them. And

38:42

it's funny because someone's like, if

38:44

you should write a parenting book,

38:46

and I'm like, I would never,

38:48

I would never write a book

38:50

on parenting or marriage, because it

38:52

would be like the kiss of

38:54

death. But if I did

38:56

write a parenting book, I said

38:58

it would only be two words,

39:00

do less. As a

39:02

parent of now kids that are

39:04

22 and 24, looking back,

39:06

that is my one thing that I

39:08

would do less. Yes, yes, yes. Because the

39:11

message they get when you do everything

39:13

for them is, oh, you're so lame, I

39:15

don't think you can do it. So

39:17

I'm it. You're probably gonna screw it, stop,

39:19

let me do it. Yeah. Let me

39:21

do that for you. And then they get

39:23

out in the world and there is

39:25

no one with the mattress underneath them. Tying

39:27

their shoes. Yeah, exactly. How

39:31

would your kids describe you as a mom?

39:33

Give us three adjectives. I think they

39:35

would describe me interestingly in the same way I

39:37

just describe my mom. I think they would say I'm,

39:39

you know, strict. I

39:41

was the rule organizer, you

39:43

know, person. You told

39:45

the line. Yeah, I definitely would say I have

39:47

like a little bit of a dirty sense of humor.

39:50

I really want access to that. Like,

39:53

how do we get that? After

39:55

a couple of margaritas.

39:57

And then... was different for

39:59

them because I did

40:01

work and travel. And

40:04

so when they were really small, I

40:06

remember my son in preschool telling at school

40:08

that I didn't work. And I was

40:10

like, wow, I think I'm doing a pretty

40:12

good job of not working too much,

40:14

but I do work, by the way. But

40:16

he didn't feel it. He didn't see

40:18

you. He didn't see you. You probably leave

40:20

home to do the work, right? Yeah,

40:22

but I guess that meant that I wasn't

40:24

gone all the time, which made me

40:26

feel good. What else

40:28

would they describe me? I

40:31

mean, they definitely know that I'll tell them

40:33

the truth. So it's funny, and I don't

40:35

know if you and Eddie have this, but

40:37

my kids will call me for certain things

40:39

and Randy for certain things. Totally. Like they

40:41

kind of know what my lane is and

40:43

what I'm good at and like what Randy's

40:45

good at, so. I always say

40:47

that you pick your advice when you pick

40:49

your advisor. Yeah. So if one of the

40:51

kids is calling me, then they want what

40:53

they know I'm gonna give you. Right. The

40:56

truth. Yeah, big

40:59

hug or all the softy stuff. They

41:01

call it what they want, like a to -do

41:03

list. Yeah. They want marching orders. You

41:06

know what I mean? And then luckily, we

41:08

all have good relationships with our partners because

41:10

they're going to tell you, did you get

41:12

a call or did you hear that? Because

41:14

we have, we share all of that stuff.

41:16

I mean, there's very, my kids have never

41:18

said, like, don't tell dad. There's

41:21

sometimes the sense that if they came to

41:23

me, they probably, they know it's gonna pass,

41:25

but they might know it's gonna pass through

41:27

my filter, which might change the way that

41:29

it's perceived. Yes, and I think that there's

41:31

things that like, you know, like you have

41:33

a boy and a girl too, so like

41:35

my daughter will come to me of certain

41:38

things. And it's not

41:40

so much that I don't tell

41:42

Randy, but I might edit. Right.

41:44

Just because I think that she's

41:46

confiding in me like more woman -to

41:48

-woman or whatever and I know

41:50

my son does that with him

41:52

as well and that's okay too

41:54

like anything crucial I obviously would

41:57

communicate but sometimes it's important to

41:59

have that they know that it's

42:01

safe yeah it's safe confidential yeah

42:03

what does grandma Jenny think of

42:05

Randy how do they get along

42:07

they get along you know what

42:09

one of Randy's great skills is

42:12

like creating ambiance for

42:14

people to be entertained in, you know,

42:16

he had bars and restaurants. So like

42:18

even at home, he does it. So

42:20

often at Christmas, like we'll get the

42:22

whole family together. It's usually at like

42:24

our house or whatever. And he's

42:26

always, you know, the candles, the

42:28

incense, the music, whatever, you know, I'm

42:30

in charge of food, you know,

42:32

like we have our roles. And I

42:35

think they appreciate that side of

42:37

him. And they, you know, I think

42:39

she thinks these are, She

42:41

approves of the way he is as

42:43

a dad. Yeah, I

42:46

mean, we don't spend a ton of time.

42:48

I don't know how much time, like your

42:50

mom actually stays you. My mom stays with

42:52

me for extended, because my mom's been a

42:54

widow for... 27 years. So when we have

42:56

her we have her and Eddie is so

42:58

good with her. She's so much more patient

43:00

than I am at times. makes sense, right?

43:02

Like I'm much more patient with Randy's mom

43:04

than he is. Yeah, exactly. You

43:07

know, I can listen to her talking

43:09

about the housewives of Atlanta, you know, I'm

43:11

just like, whatever. Randy's like, ugh. But

43:14

I think that my

43:16

family really I

43:19

would never, what is that thing like you don't

43:21

ever want to ask a question that you might not

43:23

want to hear the answer to. So like I've

43:25

never asked my mom, so what do you think of

43:27

Randy? Because my mom's like me, she's going to

43:29

tell me the truth. And I know she likes, of

43:31

course I know she loves Randy. But

43:34

it's, I've never, like it has

43:36

never occurred to me. I don't need

43:38

my mother's approval of Randy per

43:40

se. Like I'm happy with Randy. And

43:42

so, and they get along, there's

43:44

never been any conflict, so I'm not

43:46

like, but what do you really

43:49

think, mom? And

43:51

it's weird, even I think at this point

43:53

in my life, if I did have, let's say,

43:55

if I was in a fight with Randy

43:58

or something, I would more call my sisters, I

44:00

think, or my girlfriends, at this point. I

44:02

don't know, I feel like my mom doesn't have

44:04

to hear that stuff anymore. Yeah,

44:07

you don't want them to be against them in

44:09

any way. You don't want to give them

44:11

any ammunition. Exactly. They

44:14

just know that whenever they've

44:17

visited or we've spent time that

44:19

he's just an incredible host

44:21

and he creates places where we

44:23

can all spend time as

44:25

a family. That's

44:28

great. But like for instance, my whole

44:30

family loves playing games. Randy's not like

44:32

a big game player. So he won't

44:34

be like, he'll set it up and

44:36

then go away. We're all playing Mafia

44:38

or something for hours and he's like,

44:40

off to the side, doing something else.

44:43

So. What brings out the

44:45

girl and your mom? Charlie,

44:47

her husband. Yeah. Oh,

44:49

sweet. So cute. How long

44:51

have they been married? Not that long, maybe

44:53

10 years now. Great. Yeah. God, this

44:55

makes you so happy. Does Charlie have a

44:57

brother? I know. My mom really could

45:00

use that. He's shopping for your mom. He doesn't

45:02

have a brother, but I'll ask him thanks for that.

45:04

No, he's great. I know. We're so grateful

45:07

for him and her in her life.

45:09

Yeah, sure. Exactly. If your mother wrote a

45:11

book about you, what would it be

45:13

called? About me? Oh,

45:16

I don't know. My mom actually did

45:18

write a book just for herself and

45:20

for us. And it was so good.

45:22

Like, I actually was I was

45:24

like, maybe I should try to get her published. But

45:27

she wasn't really interested in that. She

45:29

just wanted to put down her thoughts

45:31

just about everything she felt as she

45:33

went through my brother's illness and death.

45:35

And then after my brother died, my dad went

45:37

off the rails a little bit and like

45:39

how the divorce happened and just all these things.

45:41

And I think she just wanted to put

45:44

it down for me and my sisters. And

45:46

it was great. But if she wrote a book

45:48

about me, oh, I have no idea. Here's

45:52

another thing, and I don't know if your mom does this. I feel like

45:54

she would. Like when someone's like, how's

45:56

your daughter? My mom's like, oh,

45:58

Chris is doing great. She's living

46:00

in Denver. And they're like,

46:02

no, your other one. She's like, oh,

46:04

Danielle, she's a school teacher and

46:07

she refuses to like assume that they're

46:09

talking about me. She kind of

46:11

makes them work for it. And I

46:13

know my sisters really appreciate that

46:15

because she's equally proud of all of

46:17

us. I

46:20

don't feel, I don't know. Yeah, maybe she wouldn't

46:22

write one about you. She'd write one about all three

46:24

of you. Yeah, she definitely

46:26

would not out. Well, that's a

46:28

motherhood thing is that you just

46:30

the even Steven like tracking. If

46:32

you gave her an ice cream cone, you better give

46:34

her an ice cream cone. And if she got those

46:36

new shoes. My mom had

46:39

this trick where like, let's say, I know

46:41

this is unhealthy, but a pop tart. Let's

46:43

say there was one pop tart. Oh, I

46:45

love a pop tart. And we had to

46:47

share it. One kid got to cut it.

46:49

but the other kid picked. So

46:51

the kid that was cutting it literally was

46:53

like a laser precision to make sure there wasn't

46:56

even one crumb because you knew the other

46:58

kid was going to pick the big sides. Maybe

47:00

she does need to have her book published. know.

47:03

It's so funny because a lot of my friends in LA who've spent

47:05

more time with her, they're like, your mom needs

47:07

to write a book. We love your mom because she's

47:09

just, she is very pragmatic in that way and not,

47:12

she wasn't like overly emotional. You

47:14

know, she definitely, expressed her

47:16

love, but I mean, I never saw

47:18

her get hysterical or like You never saw

47:20

her cry? Oh, I saw

47:22

her cry. But I mean,

47:24

she never flew off the

47:26

handle. see. I

47:29

don't know how she did it because she

47:31

was so young and she had four kids.

47:33

I mean, it's pretty amazing. She had no

47:35

help. I mean, that's

47:37

why when I got pregnant, and I don't

47:39

know for you if it was like this,

47:41

but... Someone said oh you should get a

47:43

baby nurse and I'm like what's a baby

47:45

nurse like in Illinois when you have a

47:48

kid your mom comes and stays with you

47:50

for a week and then she leaves and

47:52

you're stuck there you're there with a baby

47:54

nurse Yeah, exactly. I mean obviously my life

47:56

was different and I was working but and

47:58

by the way baby nurse was pretty pretty

48:00

Yeah, I could have made the difference for

48:02

me, but I didn't go that way either

48:04

What do you know about the day you

48:06

were born if anything? I know so my

48:08

mother had all natural like

48:10

because this is interesting. She was 17

48:12

when she gave birth and it was

48:14

like the family doctor in our town,

48:16

Dr. Thomas. Oh gosh. And he, even

48:19

at the time they gave women like

48:21

twilight sleep and stuff, he did not

48:23

give her anything because he said he

48:25

went to teach her a lesson. Whoa.

48:27

Yeah, but she had my sister in

48:29

four hours. So she was like, okay.

48:32

I teach you a lesson, Dr. Thomas.

48:34

exactly. And then she had me and

48:36

I was two hours. And then my

48:38

sister came, in one hour, and

48:40

then my brother was 30 minutes of

48:43

labor. So she was like a natural

48:45

birther. Yeah, wow. So I didn't have

48:47

any, like when, I think that's part

48:49

of the reason I was able to

48:51

give birth at home, because I didn't

48:53

have fear around birthing. Right, you hadn't

48:55

heard horrible stories about 20 hours and...

48:57

No, although mine was 30, but... With

48:59

Kaia. Okay. Really? The second? Because she

49:02

was sunny -side -up. Oh, right, right, right.

49:04

But you did home birth for both.

49:06

Yes. You were one of the first

49:08

people that I knew well that did

49:10

that, which is why I wanted that.

49:12

Yeah. It's, again, if you

49:14

didn't have your mom or your sisters do something,

49:16

you need somebody close to you to be able

49:18

to show you that that's a possibility. Yeah. But

49:20

you were definitely that for me. Yeah, no. And

49:22

it was amazing. And I don't recommend it for

49:25

everybody because a lot of people have a lot

49:27

of fear around birth. But I didn't. And so

49:29

I think that enabled me to Trust

49:31

the process plus I mean I did

49:33

have a backup plan. I wasn't like

49:35

out in the country way far away

49:37

from hospitals But yeah, so her births

49:39

were super super easy She breastfed all

49:41

of us even when it wasn't in

49:43

vogue at the time, but again, I

49:45

think Her doctor doctor Thomas told her

49:47

the two mother -in -laws are gonna try

49:49

to come in you're so young They're

49:51

gonna like be bossing you around about

49:53

this baby He said breastfeed because it'll

49:55

be the one thing that you can

49:57

do that they can do and that,

49:59

and also you get to sit down

50:01

and rest and hold your baby. So

50:04

she breastfed and it was easy for

50:06

her. So she breastfed all of us.

50:09

Yeah. Just when I was starting to not

50:11

like Dr. Thomas now, I kind of like,

50:13

I mean, that's a, it's a complicating fact.

50:15

You've just added to the picture. And he

50:17

also like diagnosed my brother. I mean, he

50:19

was like a big part of our. Family

50:21

docs, we need them. And you know what,

50:23

who knows if Dr. Thomas even said that

50:25

about pain. That's my mother's version of the

50:27

story, but you know, sometimes pain does change

50:29

your memory of things, so. For sure. Well,

50:32

give the benefit of the doubt. All

50:34

right, last question. What was your mom's

50:36

superpower? Wow, what

50:39

did you say about yours? I didn't

50:41

yet. What did you

50:43

say about yours? I didn't yet

50:45

either, but what I would say is that she

50:47

was very comfortable having us be

50:50

mad at her. So in

50:52

the teenage years where we were totally out of

50:54

control, she did not mind

50:56

being unpopular in her own house and

50:58

she did not mind being like

51:00

the crazy mom on the main line

51:02

who didn't let her kids go

51:04

to parties where the parents weren't home.

51:06

And like she just could really

51:08

tolerate the discomfort of a furious teenager.

51:11

That's good. I think I would say,

51:14

I mean, I think most mothers probably have

51:16

unconditional love for their children, but I

51:18

think acting in a way where the child

51:20

feels it is different. So I would

51:22

say that she was able to help us

51:24

know that we were loved unconditionally by

51:26

her. Like my father's love felt a little

51:29

bit more like you had to get

51:31

straight A's or you had to be good

51:33

at the baseball or whatever. And my

51:35

mom was like, You got an A, great.

51:37

You got a B, great. You got

51:39

a C, great. I never got a C,

51:41

but yeah. Unconditional.

51:44

Exactly. What about you? Gosh,

51:47

I mean I it's hard to think

51:49

of her earlier, but now because she is

51:51

in this place in her life She's

51:53

almost 85 and she has dementia and she

51:55

The best thing about her is really

51:57

like every day's a new day So she

51:59

doesn't hold a grudge or anything about

52:01

you could have an argument and and the

52:03

next day It's like Groundhog Day. There's

52:05

something kind of amazing about that and also

52:07

just music can change her mind immediately

52:09

So I'll put on Chet Baker or I'll

52:11

put on like anything that

52:13

I know will change her mood and

52:15

she'll be suddenly singing along and happy as

52:17

can be. So it's actually, that's

52:19

like the upside, I guess, of her being in

52:21

this place in her life. Earlier on, I don't

52:23

know, I mean, she would like to have fun.

52:25

She definitely, my older sister is like my mom,

52:27

when she would come with me to work when

52:29

I was a teenager. Like when there

52:31

was a dinner afterwards, I wanted to go to bed. I

52:33

was exhausted. My mom was like, where's the dinner? Like,

52:36

where are we going? You know, she

52:38

liked a little bit of limelight, I'd

52:40

say. Right, right, fun. which

52:42

is kind of fun, but also, I mean,

52:44

you know, we know others that it was

52:46

like, you got to get the mom out

52:48

of the nightclub. I know. And by the

52:50

way, like, because I went with Kaya to

52:52

Fallon last night, but she did ask me.

52:54

And then we went out for dinner afterwards.

52:56

And even at Fallon, I was like, oh,

52:58

God, I don't want to look like that

53:00

mother, like the stage mother, you know, but

53:02

I knew she wanted me there. So, you

53:04

know, Anyway, it is fun

53:06

knowing, believe me, anytime they, at 22,

53:08

anytime your kid wants you to do something

53:10

with them, you're like, I'm there, whatever

53:13

I can do, I'll move mountains, so. Thanks

53:15

a lot for saying yes. Thanks for

53:17

caring about every mother counts. No, absolutely. What

53:19

you guys do is great. You guys

53:21

have step one going, now we got to

53:23

get step two going. For sure, for

53:25

sure. We can count on you. Great, thank

53:27

you. Before

53:33

we log off, Christy and I would like

53:35

to ask you if you would consider joining

53:37

us in donating to every mother counts. We're

53:40

hoping that all our listeners

53:42

out there will participate together in

53:44

this short fundraising drive. We

53:46

have been thrilled to produce this for

53:48

you and are grateful to our guests

53:50

who instantly said yes and found time

53:52

on very short notice in the middle

53:54

of their very busy lives. Jennifer Garner,

53:56

Amy Schumer, Bono, Cindy Crawford, and Spike

53:58

Lee. The website to make

54:00

a donation is every mothercounts

54:03

.org slash podcast. Or

54:05

you can just go to kellycorrigan.com and the

54:08

donation button will be right there on the homepage.

54:10

I'm hoping that together in this first

54:12

ever appeal of any kind for me

54:14

to you, that we can help Christy

54:16

and every mother counts keep doing what

54:18

they do, which is keeping moms alive

54:20

and healthy. I also want

54:22

to thank our pro bono collaborators

54:25

on this project. That's David and Tracy

54:27

at the gorgeous Laughing Man Studios

54:29

in New York City, where we have

54:31

been recording this series, Grotus, along

54:33

with their top -notch engineer, Chris Zen. Big

54:36

thank you to Dean Kateri, Tammy

54:38

Steadman, Charlie Ubtur, Rachel Hicks, and Nina

54:40

Rabinovich Blecker from Every Mother Counts

54:42

for jumping in with both feet when

54:44

this idea came together and helping

54:46

to produce it on a very short

54:48

timeline. And finally, thanks also

54:51

to you all for listening, of course,

54:53

for sharing this series with friends

54:55

in your life, and also for donating

54:57

to Every Mother Counts. It means

54:59

a lot. We'll be back tomorrow

55:01

with another special episode in this five

55:03

-part series called About Your Mother. I've

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told I'd never be a golfer

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with just one arm. But the

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only thing that feels better than

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proving people wrong is out driving

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and I want to be remembered

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