0:02

Kikpod acknowledges the traditional

0:04

owners and custodians of the land

0:07

in which we're recording this podcast.

0:09

The euluket, woolen clan of the

0:11

Boonerong who are part of the

0:13

Kulin Nation. We pay our respects

0:15

to our elders, past and present

0:17

and extend our respect to

0:20

aboriginal and tourist rate islander

0:22

peoples today. You're listening to

0:24

It's My ADHD. A Kickod

0:27

miniseries with me. Before we get

0:29

started, I wanted to give you

0:31

a heads up that this series

0:33

is about my experience of ADHD.

0:35

This won't be a one-size-fits-all guide

0:37

to ADHD. But I do hope

0:40

that my experience and the resources

0:42

that I share will help you. Episode

0:45

4. Parenting with ADHD parenting

0:47

has got to be the most incredible thing

0:50

I have ever got to experience. The experience

0:52

is honestly like nothing else and is truly

0:54

the best representation of how something can be

0:56

so incredibly challenging at the same time as

0:59

incredibly magical. And I know generally as mothers

1:01

we all question if we're doing enough, if

1:03

we're doing the right thing, probably picking apart

1:06

how we could do things better and holding

1:08

a lot of shame or guilt around the

1:10

things we perceive that we're doing wrong. It's

1:12

hard whether or not you are neurodiverse or

1:15

neurotypical, but a lot of women are being

1:17

later diagnosed with ADHD post having

1:19

children because motherhood can highlight and

1:21

totally exacerbate existing ADHD symptoms that

1:23

they may have subconsciously been masking

1:25

or have been overlooked. Why? because

1:27

the demands on mothers means more

1:30

tasks, more need for organization, time

1:32

management, overwhelm, being touched out, less

1:34

time for ourselves, and for me,

1:36

the return to work on top

1:38

of motherhood responsibilities was where upon

1:40

reflection, I can see that my

1:42

ADHD symptoms have impacted me the

1:44

most. But I do believe that

1:46

my creativity, my passion for motherhood, and

1:49

my playful nature, that may or may

1:51

not be from my ADHD, have allowed

1:53

me to really enjoy the journey as

1:55

well. And to Dr. Billy Garby's point

1:58

from the last episode from the last

2:00

episode. if there's a chance that Harvey

2:02

or our second born might have ADHD,

2:04

I'd like to learn as much as

2:06

I can about myself to show up

2:09

as the best mama I can be

2:11

for them and in turn help them

2:13

navigate it too. So, within this series,

2:15

I wanted to allow space to talk

2:18

about mothering with ADHD. And I wanted

2:20

to do it with another neurospicy friend

2:22

of mine, a mama who has been

2:24

a massive support for me personally, and

2:26

also so many others when it comes

2:29

to navigating an ADHD diagnosis. And that

2:31

is M Rushiano. Almost two years ago,

2:33

I spoke with M for the first

2:35

time on the Kick Bump podcast, which

2:38

if you're new here, is my fortnightly

2:40

parenting parenting parenting podcast. Now, if you

2:42

don't, she's a writer, she's a writer.

2:44

singer, performer, comedian and podcaster and M

2:46

was diagnosed with ADHD at 42 years

2:49

old and autism at 44 and her

2:51

three children are all neurodiverse too. This

2:53

is what I wanted to talk to

2:55

M about on kick bump a couple

2:58

of years ago but what I didn't

3:00

expect from that conversation was for her

3:02

to plant a seed in my mind

3:04

that would push me to seek my

3:06

own 80 HD diagnosis 18 months later.

3:09

Are you one of us? Am I?

3:11

I feel like you think you are.

3:13

You know what? I don't want to,

3:15

I don't want to, I've not spoken

3:18

to anyone about this. No. But a

3:20

lot of what you've just said, I'm

3:22

like, can relate, can relate, can relate.

3:24

So I don't, I don't know. I

3:26

can't, I can't say I am, I'm

3:29

not, I don't know. But I, I

3:31

see. If you think you said I

3:33

relate to. And I just want to

3:35

say. If you think you. Now, since

3:38

getting the diagnosis, I have gone back

3:40

and re-listened to that episode, and I

3:42

suppose I listened with a new perspective.

3:44

And now, having been diagnosed and with

3:47

baby number two fast approaching, I wanted

3:49

to catch up with M to learn

3:51

more about her experience of parenting with

3:53

ADHD. So maybe I could learn a

3:56

thing or two as well. So without

3:58

further ado, the conversation I'd been looking

4:00

forward to having... for almost two years

4:03

now, here is my chat with M.

4:05

M. I'm so excited to have you

4:07

back on the pod. Thank you. Yeah.

4:09

Well, the last time I saw you,

4:12

I did diagnose you secretly in my

4:14

brain and wasn't very subtle about it

4:16

to your face. No. And then when

4:18

you told me, you told me you

4:21

were ADHD before you'd announced it publicly.

4:23

And I really. I want you to

4:25

congratulate me and myself, restraint from not

4:27

screaming down the phone. I told you.

4:30

I was like, oh, I had a

4:32

feeling. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to see

4:34

you. Welcome to the class. I know,

4:36

thank you. Welcome, you're so welcome. I

4:39

still haven't figured out. The collective noun

4:41

for ADHD is a confusion. Okay. So,

4:43

welcome to the confusion. Love that. Yeah.

4:45

I mean, it fits. Yeah. I just

4:48

made that up. It's not official. I

4:50

do want to say, I re-listened to

4:52

our chat in preparation for this podcast

4:55

and it was so interesting to listen

4:57

back to everything you had to say

4:59

now since being diagnosed. Obviously back then,

5:01

I don't think I was even considering

5:04

getting assessed at that point. I think

5:06

this was like, I started to hear

5:08

ADHD being spoken more because of people

5:10

like yourself. No, I invented it. I

5:13

invented ADHD. It's my fault. I decided

5:15

we needed to bring it back to

5:17

the 90s back, but we needed to

5:19

refresh for the Instagram era. And I

5:22

wanted to make it about females. Well,

5:24

thank you for that. But when I

5:26

had the chat, that was, as you

5:28

said, like, before you got to the

5:31

moment of diagnosing me on the mic,

5:33

it was because I was nodding along

5:35

to almost everything you said and I

5:38

could feel myself. Oh, I took that

5:40

in. I'm thinking, yes, the woman has

5:42

not stopped agreeing with me. And then

5:44

I, it was from that conversation that

5:47

I had in the back of my

5:49

mind, like, oh, maybe that's, maybe something

5:51

I probably should. should look into, but

5:53

then I didn't, of course. ADHD. Yeah,

5:56

of course. And yeah, I just wanted

5:58

to thank you for that because I

6:00

think, and the reason why I wanted

6:02

to reach out to you before I

6:05

even posted it about it was because

6:07

that chat for me was really like

6:09

the catalyst that made me start to

6:11

look into it. And I think it

6:14

was also just so bloody helpful hearing

6:16

from someone who I respected Maya so

6:18

much. Oh, thank you. Oh my God,

6:21

we can't cry at the start. Oh,

6:23

yeah, so thank you for... I was

6:25

really honoured that you trusted me with

6:27

that information, because there is a modicum

6:30

of interest in your private life, and

6:32

I was really honoured that you trusted

6:34

me with that. information and that you

6:36

felt that I was a safe space

6:39

to impart it on. So I mean

6:41

right back at you. Of course. I

6:43

just yeah, you were the first one

6:45

of the first people that I was

6:48

like, I need a voice note. M.

6:50

I love it. I'm often usually the

6:52

first person people tell big life news

6:54

to. I don't know what, even if

6:57

we haven't spoken in six months, I'll

6:59

get a casual bombshell from a friend.

7:01

And I don't know. I love that.

7:04

Yeah, I don't know. I think you're

7:06

a safe space. I try to be

7:08

if people knew what was going on

7:10

internally though. Yes, now I do try

7:13

to be. I try to be the

7:15

space I needed. Yeah. That's pretty much

7:17

what I'm working towards. Yeah. I really

7:19

wanted to get you on for this

7:22

mini series for all of those reasons

7:24

combined, but also I think since I

7:26

was a mom when I first spoke

7:28

to you, but I think now that

7:31

Harvey is getting a little bit older

7:33

and watching you kind of navigate. I

7:35

know the girls are a lot older,

7:37

but even Elio, how old is five

7:40

or six? Okay. So I would love

7:42

to chat to you about that because

7:44

I feel like having a young person

7:46

in your life and then finding out

7:49

you have ADHD and for me it

7:51

was also in the same week that

7:53

I fell pregnant with my second. It

7:56

had made me parked since getting my

7:58

diagnosis doing anything about it. And

8:00

I love that you're picking a

8:02

really like low-key time in your

8:04

life to not put any pressure

8:06

on yourself to finish a project

8:08

before you produce a human. Great.

8:11

Yeah. Classic ADHD. So great. Totally.

8:13

But I think I'm motivated because

8:15

I just want to try and

8:17

understand as much as I can

8:19

before I know that my life

8:21

is going to flip again. Inevitably

8:23

going from one to two and

8:25

being that newborn phase again, but

8:28

with two. I just... I just want

8:30

to be, I think, better prepared and

8:32

understanding where my heads are and how

8:34

it works. And I think I... You

8:37

can ask me about anything. Okay, correct.

8:39

Like, it doesn't ask me if you're

8:41

just parenting. And you can just slot

8:43

me into various spots in the podcast

8:46

wherever it fits. I can just be like

8:48

voice of God. And now we

8:50

cross the M. Like, whatever you

8:53

need, I'm here for you. I

8:55

wanted to know, actually, because your

8:57

house is quite, um... insane, loud.

9:00

No, you've got a lot of

9:02

neuro divergents in the house. All

9:05

of them. We have five for

9:07

five. So I was going to

9:09

ask, because when I chatted to

9:12

you, your husband wasn't? He's diagnosed.

9:14

Okay. Congratulations. Yeah. There's no prize.

9:16

It's a horrible lottery. No one

9:19

wants to. Nah, it's great. No,

9:21

we are all neuro divergents. Yeah.

9:23

It's hectic. It's totally hectic, but

9:26

I also grew up in a

9:28

similar household so you don't realize

9:30

that things are a bit different

9:33

until an external person points it

9:35

out to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

9:37

okay. And so with LEO, because

9:39

I think that's a conversation

9:42

that I'm preparing myself to navigate,

9:44

not a conversation, I just want

9:46

to know how how best show up

9:48

for Harvey's sake, no idea if he's

9:51

going to have ADHD or not. He

9:53

is. I watch your child. Not to

9:55

pathologize in any way, but there's

9:57

an it's as hereditary I know

9:59

it. know and all three of my

10:01

children are yeah and now that I

10:03

know this signs and symptoms I can

10:05

spot it very easily in other kids

10:08

yeah the Australian school system now is

10:10

excellent at picking it up right so

10:12

if you'll find out regardless but I

10:14

knew LEO was at two yeah I

10:16

remember you saying that extremely apparent So

10:18

yeah, I watch Harvey and his incredible

10:20

spirit and I say there is a

10:22

child who is not neurotypical. I could

10:24

be wrong, but even if he is

10:26

neuro divergent. Yes, amazing. And that's what

10:28

I wanted to talk to you about

10:30

because I want to make sure that

10:32

I'm in a place of acceptance, which

10:35

I do feel like I'm getting there.

10:37

I don't think I've completely rejected it.

10:39

I don't feel like the... It's really

10:41

interesting. What do you mean acceptance? When

10:43

I first got diagnosed, I think there

10:45

was absolutely that sense of relief that

10:47

I had some sort of reason for

10:49

these things that I had hated about

10:51

myself. But there's so many good things

10:53

about it. I know, right? I know.

10:55

And I think I'm understanding that. And

10:57

I, but I don't think, and this

11:00

is again, why I'm here to learn

11:02

from everyone. Speak your treat of this.

11:04

I don't think I'm fully there yet

11:06

where I'm like stoked with the fact

11:08

that I have ADHD. You'll never be

11:10

stoked. No honey, but it becomes like

11:12

a, I have brown hair. Yeah, okay,

11:14

it's just like a thing. I'm Italian.

11:16

Yeah, it's just a fact. It's now,

11:18

it's now neutral. Before it was chaotic

11:20

negative. Yeah. And now for me, it's

11:22

neutral. Yeah. And it's just, it just

11:25

is. And is that because you've understood

11:27

it, you've understood it. looking at having

11:29

different expectations. Realizing I was applying a

11:31

set of neurotypical rules to the things

11:33

I was trying to achieve and that's

11:35

why I was failing. Yes. Because I

11:37

was playing a different game. Can relate.

11:39

Yeah, so once you start playing by

11:41

your rules, you find the shame around

11:43

not being after do the minutiae, the

11:45

emails that like I'm happy to state

11:47

publicly on your podcast. I hate going

11:49

to the park. It's boring. I hate

11:52

it so much. And I find myself

11:54

getting really like feeling bad. Are you

11:56

a bad mum? Why are I sitting,

11:58

playing fake, you know, cafes and eating

12:00

bark? And I just really realized early

12:02

on with Elio, we're not going to

12:04

do the park. Yeah. We're going to

12:06

do stuff that we're both interested in.

12:08

So we go rock climbing. Because then

12:10

you're more like into it and engaged

12:12

anyway. Exactly, exactly. So I think it's

12:14

not shooting yourself, not holding yourself to

12:17

neurotypical parenting standards or your kid. That's

12:19

the other thing. Like if you're trying

12:21

to parent your kid who's neurodivergent, but

12:23

you're trying to get them to, you

12:25

know, we've got to have our routine,

12:27

you've got to be in bed by

12:29

this time, you've got to eat this

12:31

food, and you got to eat this

12:33

food, and you, and you've, and you

12:35

got to eat this food, and you

12:37

got to eat this food, and you,

12:39

and you've, and you've, and you've, and

12:42

you've, and you've, and you've, and you've

12:44

got to eat this food. That's the

12:46

stuff I let go of. Yeah. And

12:48

it's been like a big exhale on

12:50

my life. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah. So

12:52

how do you go about educating Leo?

12:54

I think because he was diagnosed quite

12:56

young. Yeah. Right. So you would have

12:58

been educating him on his diagnosis around

13:00

the same time as the fact that

13:02

you had it yourself. If say, for

13:04

example, let's just say I haven't had,

13:06

Harvey hasn't been diagnosed. but I still

13:09

want the conversation of ADHD and his

13:11

awareness and everything. I haven't started that

13:13

conversation at home yet. But how would

13:15

you say you approach that? Either way,

13:17

with your kids, you're a Joe Virgin

13:19

or not. We talk about how Elio

13:21

has an explorer brain. We talk about

13:23

how something's for him. are hard and

13:25

some things are easy and we talk

13:27

about he has a lot of trouble

13:29

with his emotional regulation so we we

13:31

work with an amazing o.T. Maggie and

13:34

she comes to our house once a

13:36

week and works with him on putting

13:38

languages to his emotions because Elio feels

13:40

everything at a thousand regardless of you

13:42

know he'll he'll leave you know drop

13:44

a toy or slam his finger in

13:46

the door and the emotional response will

13:48

be the same. So the emotional regulation

13:50

is going to be... his biggest struggle

13:52

in life because he feels his little

13:54

heart and soul feels the world so

13:56

hard. And that's the biggest thing we

13:58

work with him on is, you know,

14:01

we'll say to him, you know, is

14:03

this out of 10, what's this problem?

14:05

And do we need to go to

14:07

a 10? And what's our middle ground

14:09

of anger? But I think... with Elio

14:11

around autism. He knows he's autistic, but

14:13

it's just a way, the way I

14:15

talk about it with him, it's a

14:17

contextualizer like I've always said, it's just

14:19

putting him into context for the world.

14:21

So when we meet people, new people,

14:23

I say Elio's autistic, he's brilliant, he's

14:26

great, it's just like, it just is.

14:28

It's not a, and then sometimes well-meaning

14:30

people will follow up with, oh, but

14:32

he looks, he looks fine. He looks

14:34

fine. He looks normal. He looks normal.

14:36

He looks normal. He looks normal. And

14:38

I take a deep breath. Yeah. And

14:40

you know, it's a teachable moment. Yes,

14:42

exactly. And I just say to them,

14:44

oh, he is. He just thinks differently.

14:46

So I think I've just kept, it's

14:48

a non-event. Yeah. Do you know what

14:51

I mean? It's so cash. It's so

14:53

cash. Yeah. Because the way you deal

14:55

with it informs the way he is

14:57

going to deal with it. Yeah, that

14:59

makes sense. And so when it comes

15:01

up around other kids at school or

15:03

it comes up in life, it, it,

15:05

it. He does it, it's not, it's

15:07

like someone, like I said, making fun

15:09

of his hair color, he's like, well,

15:11

I just, I can't, you know, the

15:13

rule in our house is with Elio

15:15

especially, if someone can't change something about

15:18

themselves in 30 seconds, don't make a

15:20

comment on it. That's like the rule,

15:22

because Elio likes the, he's autistic, so

15:24

he points things out, that's funny, that's

15:26

not something you want to change about

15:28

him. Our job now in the public

15:30

eye as public neuro-divergent women is to

15:32

re-educate the society and societal norms and

15:34

society's discussions around neuro-divergence. So that, you

15:36

know, he just walks into the room

15:38

and does his thing and the right

15:40

supports are put in around these kids

15:43

so that they can flourish and be

15:45

amazing. So that's what we've worked hard

15:47

to do with the school, at home.

15:49

that when he gets home from school

15:51

he no one talks to him he

15:53

decompresses for an hour he plays the

15:55

switch he lays in his beanbag he

15:57

still has a dummy at six which

15:59

is I have no issue with that

16:01

another rule that we put on kids

16:03

so it's just about meeting them where

16:05

they're at and the conversations are so

16:07

casual yeah there's no when he trips

16:10

up on something when he doesn't want

16:12

to eat something because he has a

16:14

really restricted diet I say oh that's

16:16

because that's because you're autistic So I

16:18

point out the things, and when he

16:20

gets super curious about things, Elio, I'm,

16:22

Elio has the numbers autism, I do

16:24

not, I have the opposite of the

16:26

numbers autism. So he's, they call him

16:28

a human calculator at school, they throw

16:30

numbers at him like a party trick.

16:32

And I say to him, that's because

16:35

you're autistic. So I just, I point

16:37

out the way it shows up, you

16:39

know, you can't be Pollyanna about it,

16:41

you can't call it a super power,

16:43

because it's not one we'd all choose,

16:45

let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's,

16:47

let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's,

16:49

let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's,

16:51

let's, Point out the ways in which

16:53

it makes things harder and the ways

16:55

that it makes things amazing in equal

16:57

amounts. I would love to know when

17:00

it comes to motherhood and you know

17:02

the more you've learned about ADHD and

17:04

how it's showing up and... What are

17:06

those things that have made it really

17:08

hard? Oh gosh. What is, what's, what's

17:10

the biggest challenges in motherhood when you've

17:12

got ADHD? Everything, everything's a shit fight.

17:14

Yeah. You know, everything. And you're like,

17:16

why do I hate doing the things

17:18

that nature in society says to me

17:20

should just be natural? Why am I

17:22

so bored? I just. It's the executive

17:24

function of it all. It's the nappy

17:27

bag, the formula, the wipes, the am

17:29

I wearing clean underwear? Have I got

17:31

a bra with, I always used to

17:33

forget to put the pads in on,

17:35

I'd leak everywhere. You know, like, even

17:37

just remembering, sometimes with the ADHD with

17:39

me was I'd have my period and

17:41

I'd forget to pack stuff for my,

17:43

like, so I'd be putting toilet paper

17:45

in there while I'm trying to, it

17:47

was just this whole. There's a lot

17:49

to think about to think about it.

17:52

Yeah, grip woman. Yeah. So everything became

17:54

harder because the exact and especially when

17:56

you start adding more kids into the

17:58

mix plus. you're trying to run a

18:00

business, plus you're trying to be a

18:02

wife, plus you're trying to be a

18:04

friend, and you do at the end

18:06

of the day, you just feel like

18:08

you're just surviving. So I think there's

18:10

so much executive function involved in

18:12

motherhood, even if you're a typical,

18:14

your battle. And then check on

18:16

the top and you're a divergence.

18:19

So I would say to you,

18:21

everything is harder. It's wild! But

18:23

also the flip side is I

18:25

get really passionate and involved in

18:27

my kid's special interests. We buy

18:29

all the gear. We go to

18:31

the concerts. We dress up. We

18:33

Google it. Elio's current hyper fixation

18:35

is military grade handcuffs. They arrived

18:37

yesterday. My father, who's also near

18:39

a divergent, had to have an

18:41

interview with customs to get them in

18:43

the country. But they are proper. And

18:45

we've watched videos and how to make

18:47

handcuffs. And we took him to a

18:49

police station. So I think ADHD parents

18:51

understand that when you fall in love

18:53

with the topic, the thrill of it.

18:56

And we can go all in with

18:58

our kids' interests. So it makes some

19:00

aspects so joyful, but when you've

19:02

got a newborn babe, it's just...

19:04

Yeah. Drop all your standards. Yeah,

19:07

fair. No standards. Yeah, yeah. It's

19:09

so interesting with the interesting, like

19:11

Harvey's monster truck obsessed and I

19:13

couldn't... give two shits about monster

19:15

trucks, but we went to a

19:18

show and his favorite monster truck,

19:20

they did an announcement at the

19:22

start that it was broken and

19:24

it wasn't going to come out.

19:26

And I was devastated for him.

19:29

Like, Josh and I just looked

19:31

at each other like, oh my

19:33

god. Did he take it? Was

19:35

he okay? Well, I feel like

19:37

he didn't really quite hear the announcement.

19:40

So like at first he was kind

19:42

of just like, oh, where is it?

19:44

And he came out. And I

19:46

just started bowling my eyes

19:48

out. ADHD! You feel the

19:51

joy intensely, of course! How

19:53

wonderful, but also exhausting! It

19:55

is! Yeah, yeah. And I

19:58

want to try. to you

20:00

about emotional dysregulation because I think for

20:02

me... Maid, I'm still struggling. That's the

20:04

hardest part. I mean I'm in Perry

20:07

Menopause now. Yeah. The estrogen is lacking.

20:09

You've got a whole lot of things

20:11

going on. And my ability to not

20:13

fly off the handle every 30 seconds

20:15

is greatly diminished and already was hanging

20:17

on by a thread. Yeah. Because I

20:20

am ADHD autistic, highly sensitive person and

20:22

I have no... the regulating of emotion.

20:24

You do a pretty good job. I

20:26

mean I don't see you at home.

20:28

That's exactly right. But I never see

20:31

you. You mask like a mofo publicly.

20:33

Yeah and that's something I'm learning about.

20:35

You really do. I see you. Yeah

20:37

and I think that's even before when

20:39

I came in and I was talking

20:42

shit about something you were very like

20:44

and I was like she's masking. But

20:46

it's, and it is, it's this thing

20:48

that I have learned, and I think

20:50

when, you know, you're running a business

20:52

and you've got a team or, you

20:55

know, you're talking a woman, honey. Yeah,

20:57

well, that too. You're a woman, you

20:59

were a little girl at some point,

21:01

but by the age of four, you

21:03

were told be good. Yeah. You weren't

21:06

encouraged to climb the trees and be

21:08

adventurous to be brave. I just wanted

21:10

to be liked. And I think what's

21:12

hard and what I've learned about masking

21:14

is that I can get home and

21:17

I know on a day when I've

21:19

gone hardcore with it because I'll get

21:21

home and it's like everything's off and

21:23

I feel very bad for Josh on

21:25

those days. Yeah. And I wanted to

21:27

ask about that because I think there's

21:30

points of my I can hold off

21:32

with Harvey if I get to see

21:34

him for like an hour or whatever

21:36

I can have the patients in that

21:38

time. even though I want to fly

21:41

off the rails, most of the time

21:43

I can really hold my shit together,

21:45

but then if Josh does anything, it's

21:47

like... Sorry, but I don't have... I've

21:49

held it all off so that I

21:52

didn't scream at Harvey, so unfortunately you're

21:54

going to get the rift. So how

21:56

have you navigated that? And I mean,

21:58

I do definitely fly out. I've spoken

22:00

about on the podcast before, I've screamed

22:02

Harvey when I've really lost my shit,

22:05

right? No, I know. It's okay. I'm

22:07

here to tell you. It is okay.

22:09

All right? As long as you go

22:11

back and I always do that. I

22:13

always go back and explain. But the

22:16

emotional regulation is the biggest thing I

22:18

struggle with. Yeah, okay. Especially, you know,

22:20

when I was on radio and when

22:22

I was being intently watched, you know,

22:24

live for three hours every morning. and

22:26

the masking I was doing and the

22:29

things that we would talk about often

22:31

with radio I'd have to pivot from

22:33

say someone dying from cancer and we're

22:35

giving them you know whatever tickets to

22:37

Christina Aguilera and then a pivoting to

22:40

a gotcha call and having that emotional

22:42

slug of I've just spoken to a

22:44

woman who's dying and now we're going

22:46

into a prank call yeah for me

22:48

that pivot was nearly impossible and when

22:51

something triggers me when something I decided

22:53

There's an injustice that's been done, something's

22:55

not fair. I become obsessed. It's a

22:57

sticky thought. It wraps itself around my

22:59

heart and my lungs and my brain.

23:01

And for me, the emotional regulation stuff

23:04

has been, especially working with LEO, that's

23:06

what's helped me, is going through the

23:08

OT stuff with LEO and learning those

23:10

tools of, it's just simple things like

23:12

get back into your body. When I'm

23:15

out of my body, I'm bad. That's

23:17

why I become an exist. Like I'm

23:19

exercising like a mad woman now to

23:21

try and get a hold of my

23:23

mental health. But when I get too

23:26

much in my head, that's no good.

23:28

So with the emotional regulation stuff, for

23:30

me, it's, you know, the five senses.

23:32

And that's what Elio does. That's what

23:34

the O.T. We've been working on him,

23:36

what can you feel, what can you

23:39

smell, what can you see, and simply

23:41

doing those little tricks. But also, I

23:43

get home from a big day and

23:45

I will say to my husband, please

23:47

don't speak to me for 60 minutes.

23:50

And I put my noise cancelling headphones

23:52

on, I put on drag race, I

23:54

do some stretching, and then I'm ready

23:56

to face the night. But beforehand, I

23:58

would have just powered through being resentful

24:01

that he didn't just know I needed

24:03

that time. and being like a hell-based.

24:05

I am a hell-based anyway. But I

24:07

think it's putting in boundaries and advocating

24:09

for yourself is the hardest thing to

24:11

do as a neurodividge woman, but ultimately

24:14

the most important thing staff. Like, and

24:16

we're made to feel we're being guilty,

24:18

we're being selfish and we should martyr

24:20

ourselves and our families should come first,

24:22

but in fact, to show up as

24:25

the best version of us, we have

24:27

to make sure we exercise, we eat

24:29

right. We get home from a big

24:31

day of masking and spend an hour

24:33

decompressing, decompressing. and we voice those things

24:36

and we say to our families, if

24:38

you want me to be the best

24:40

I can for you, these things absolutely

24:42

have to happen. And I think that's

24:44

been the biggest game changer for me

24:46

is ferociously protecting the decompression time. Yeah,

24:49

and it's really interesting you brought that

24:51

up because we actually, so part of

24:53

this mini series, we've done a relationship.

24:55

episode with Megan Luscombe who's a relationship

24:57

expert and we actually had a one-on-one

25:00

with her Josh and I I need

25:02

her number before she's amazing she's I

25:04

can definitely need some help she's awesome

25:06

we call her all the time for

25:08

the key pod for relationship advice she's

25:10

awesome thank you also neuro-dividigent house so

25:13

she gets it she gets it but

25:15

that's the thing that came up something

25:17

that she passed on to us was

25:19

that When we reflected on time, we

25:21

were working really well together was when

25:24

we were communicating really well. And when

25:26

I'm really busy, I do. I assume

25:28

that he knows how busy I am

25:30

or how stressed I am or how

25:32

well I am. When you're busy, do

25:35

you hate explaining yourself? I get wild.

25:37

If I have to slow down to

25:39

explain something. Yeah, I know. Just wish

25:41

sometimes I could take what I need

25:43

to happen out of my head and

25:45

put it in here. Yeah. The act

25:48

of slowing down and explaining for an

25:50

ADHD woman. Wild. Yeah. And so what

25:52

she suggested we do, which we've done

25:54

a few times now, and it. Is

25:56

before I'm home, we'll shoot each other

25:59

a WhatsApp text like maybe an hour

26:01

before I'm getting home, and we ask

26:03

a couple of questions that basically... cover

26:05

off like it's a highlight that's happened

26:07

today like something exciting or whatever if

26:10

there's been one. Are you stressed or

26:12

overwhelmed and then we kind of if

26:14

we answer that it's we give a

26:16

little bit of context as to why

26:18

like I might say like oh I

26:20

don't know we had like four people

26:23

sick in the office today and it

26:25

was it was just stressful because there's

26:27

a lot of work on or I

26:29

didn't get my to-do list done and

26:31

which I never do. And it's really

26:34

great because sometimes all I say is

26:36

I need to have like half an

26:38

hour of a loan time when I

26:40

walk through the door. Amazing. And like

26:42

then he just knows. Up and out

26:45

20 hours. Yeah. But then he just

26:47

knows. And that has been amazing. So

26:49

I love that you said that. Good.

26:52

And I wonder when you are communicating

26:54

like that and you know there is

26:56

that you've kind of got on top

26:58

of what you know regulates you and

27:00

brings you back to your body Does

27:03

that help because the last time we

27:05

had a conversation are what I related

27:07

to you saying was that you cannot

27:09

lie and that you can be blunt

27:12

right that's a few autism huge thing

27:14

well it's a huge thing in me

27:16

and I might be the next thing

27:18

you do have eye contact stuff like

27:20

I do as well. That's fine Let's

27:23

just let it have one thing at

27:25

a time. They do, it's a 70%

27:27

chance. You are both. But it's fine,

27:29

let's not bring it up. Yeah, and

27:31

I don't lie. Yeah, I really struggle

27:34

at lying. You know me, first five

27:36

minutes I saw you, I'm like that.

27:38

Yeah. Terrible. And but the thing is,

27:40

is what I really struggle at when

27:43

I'm overwhelmed and like a little dysregulated

27:45

if Josh is talking to me about

27:47

something I'm not interested in. I'll bluntly

27:49

tell him. Shut you down. I don't

27:51

care. Yeah. And I... Because your resilience

27:54

is down. So does it help when

27:56

you are managing it, you bring yourself

27:58

to your body, you've got these things

28:00

that regulate you, do you find that

28:02

the bluntness eases off a bit? Not.

28:05

Okay. And sometimes Scott's just been a

28:07

dickhead. Yeah. Like, sometimes my ability to

28:09

cope with the idiotic behavior is lessened.

28:11

Yeah. He's still doing stuff that he

28:14

shouldn't be doing, but my ability to

28:16

cope is lessened because I'm emotionally overwhelmed

28:18

because I'm overstimulated from the lights all

28:20

day. Yeah. So, often it'll be like,

28:22

oh, well, I got away with this

28:25

last time. Why am I not? and

28:27

now I have a lack of estrogen,

28:29

oh it's the wild west in my

28:31

house. Yeah, okay. Like for me, no,

28:33

the bluntness, I'm better at catching it

28:36

now. Yep. And I also ask things

28:38

like when somebody asks my opinion, I

28:40

now say the following sentence, do you

28:42

want the truth or do you want

28:45

to be supported? That's great. And hopefully

28:47

it's the same one and the same

28:49

thing. Yeah. But I always used to

28:51

get caught up, especially in high school,

28:53

when one of the girls would ask

28:56

me what I thought of, haircut, outfit,

28:58

shoes, anything. Yeah, I'm honest. And I'd

29:00

be like, oh, babes, no. And then.

29:02

Later on I'd hear I was completely

29:04

awful. Yeah, and that also I'm in

29:07

team environments I'm only my team are

29:09

people that know I've Everything's coming from

29:11

a good place, but I have a

29:13

shorthand I don't my text messages are

29:16

like serial There's no high how you're

29:18

going. Yeah, it's no high how you're

29:20

going. Yeah, it's just like I might

29:22

not have text you in three months

29:24

and then I'll ask you a question

29:27

in the middle of a sentence. Yeah,

29:29

and for me my love and emotion

29:31

picks up the same spot. So I

29:33

think, yeah, no, the bluntness doesn't lessen,

29:35

but probably the tone softens? Yeah. Yeah.

29:38

Oh, I throw a lot of emotions

29:40

in these days. I think that's the

29:42

way I've like tried to soften it

29:44

is like, I'll write something and then

29:47

I'll send it and then I'll be

29:49

like, oh, good morning. How are you?

29:51

Love Heart? Like I've like learned, like,

29:53

oh shit, I probably should have. We

29:55

know how to speak here at typical

29:58

if we have to, like it's a

30:00

language we've learned and if we've got

30:02

to roll the neurotypical language out every

30:04

now and then we will, but it's

30:06

exhausting. Yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting. Okay,

30:09

so what about if for me, the

30:11

communication and just being open about ADHD,

30:13

again, maybe it's not yet with Harvey

30:15

being almost four. How would you say

30:18

that that is best approach from your

30:20

experience as well? And maybe it's a

30:22

little bit different because a lot of

30:24

your kids have been diagnosed as well.

30:26

So it's like this, hey, we're all

30:29

in this together. But I think, like

30:31

I remember, I watched Celes Barber's, I

30:33

think it was an Australian story, and

30:35

her kids, you know, very openly knew

30:37

about her medication and like if she

30:40

doesn't have it, like the difference and

30:42

everything like that. So it made me

30:44

want to, I think prepare for... those

30:46

kind of open conversations and explaining what

30:49

might happen if I do flip that

30:51

my shit and like if it I

30:53

think it might have been related because

30:55

of this how do I educate him

30:57

on understanding more about people with ADHD?

31:00

Well I think it's just as it

31:02

comes up explaining it to him but

31:04

like Elio all my kids know about

31:06

we're all on the same medication anyway

31:08

ironically so there's always a bottle lying

31:11

around somewhere it's very normalized in our

31:13

house and I think with Elio especially

31:15

I don't know, he wouldn't know anything

31:17

different. I'm really aware that I can't

31:20

control how the world's going to react

31:22

to him, but I can control how

31:24

he reacts to the world. So there's

31:26

just a lot of chat around, you

31:28

know, compassion for yourself and... Not wanting

31:31

to make other people feel badly and

31:33

advocating just because he now he says

31:35

to his teachers because he knows he

31:37

can only handle one verbal instruction at

31:39

a time and Often they'll say to

31:42

him, you know, and his teacher told

31:44

me he did this go put your

31:46

books in your locker grab your reader

31:48

and then come back and will and

31:51

he says to he said to his

31:53

teacher one at a time. Please. She

31:55

told me that I'm like oh I'm

31:57

so proud. So I think it's just

31:59

the big part in the big thing

32:02

I'm trying to for me, I also

32:04

have auditory processing disorder, so that he

32:06

can say, oh no, I'm ADHD, or

32:08

no, I'm autistic, or no, I prefer

32:10

to do it this way, or could

32:13

you not give me so many instructions?

32:15

But it's just, like I said to

32:17

you, when chatting about it with Harvey,

32:19

if you notice him having a difficulty

32:22

explaining to him, why? And then, you

32:24

know, for me, I have auditory processing

32:26

disorder, and I'm, and I get... really

32:28

I get short with him and so

32:30

I now say to him sorry you

32:33

know mummies can only take in one

32:35

source at a time and can you

32:37

hear all the other noises um that's

32:39

part of you know my the way

32:41

my brain's made up so he understands

32:44

that he shouldn't come and talk to

32:46

me if there's 50 other things going

32:48

on like he knows that stuff yeah

32:50

so yeah it's interesting how quickly they

32:53

pick up on things like I know

32:55

that sometimes when I've tried to remove

32:57

myself from Maybe a really difficult bedtime

32:59

and I've gone to sit at the

33:01

top of the stairs and I've just

33:04

said like mommy just needs a minute

33:06

I love that you do that he

33:08

doesn't give it to me Yeah, of

33:10

course, but keep saying it I do

33:12

and and it's really sweet because I've

33:15

now seen when he gets really upset

33:17

he wants to be alone and he

33:19

sometimes goes and sits on the top

33:21

of the stairs. Oh, I love it.

33:24

You are the mirror. However you treat

33:26

yourself and how you handle this is

33:28

what he's going to do for him.

33:30

So any time you're unkind about it

33:32

in front of him, about yourself, he

33:35

will absorb that. Yeah. And Elio's great,

33:37

if he sees me getting upset, he

33:39

says, what do you see? What do

33:41

you feel? What do you hear? Because

33:43

that's what he's already taught him to

33:46

do. So it's just, yeah, I think

33:48

you're already doing it. The modeling is

33:50

the strongest thing you can do, Steph.

33:52

You can say, you know, you can

33:55

have all the conversations you want with

33:57

Harvey, but the way you behave is

33:59

what he's going to absorb the most

34:01

deeply. want to be perfect, wanting to

34:03

understand it so much. That's just not,

34:06

life isn't meant to be conquered and

34:08

clocked, it's just not, and I was

34:10

doing that, I was trying to forensically

34:12

understand every single aspect of my personality

34:14

so that I could beat it and

34:17

be better. And then I realized

34:19

how exhausting that was, and I

34:21

just thought I'm just gonna live

34:23

my life now, rather than trying

34:25

to figure out the best way

34:27

to live my life. That's really

34:29

nice. That's really, really nice. And

34:31

very helpful. You're not even 30.

34:33

I am. How old are you?

34:35

31. But thank you. Don't worry.

34:37

It gets worse. I would love

34:39

to know then what you would

34:41

say to maybe moms out there

34:43

who are listening in who, you

34:45

know, a neurotypical brain, but they,

34:48

their kids recently by being

34:50

diagnosed. Go get yourself, I

34:52

know. What is it that you would love

34:54

them to know if they're if they're not?

34:56

Whether it's them or their partner? Yeah, yeah,

34:58

yeah, you are dealing with the root of

35:00

agent people. Exactly like what's the best ways

35:03

that they can show up as a parent

35:05

and support and Yeah, ensure that I suppose

35:07

as you said that they're not like feeling

35:09

bad about getting the diagnosis. I think any

35:11

changes you can make in your house that

35:13

accommodates in your divergent people will be lovely

35:16

for your in typical person. Like looking at

35:18

things like how many bright lights are in

35:20

your house? Can you just put a bunch

35:22

of lamps in? Are there soft places to

35:24

land? Are there noise cancelling headphones? Are there

35:27

beautiful textures around the house for them to

35:29

come with? Do you have a basket of

35:31

steam toys? These kind of things will also

35:33

help you. calm down basically. But I think

35:36

the number one thing and I say this

35:38

to so in so many of my talks

35:40

and when I meet is is what standards

35:42

are you holding you and your

35:45

family to? That's like I said you

35:47

at the start of this chat. That's

35:49

the biggest thing is am

35:51

I failing by neurotypical standards

35:53

or am I failing by neuro

35:55

divergent standards? Because it's

35:57

just things like pick your battles.

36:00

Let them eat cake for breakfast if

36:02

they want to. Let them stay up

36:04

past their bedtime if they want to.

36:06

Let them have a lot of screen

36:08

time one day because they're dysregulated. Let

36:10

them cuddle the tags off their clothes.

36:12

Let them wear their clothes backwards. Let

36:14

them wear a different pair of shoes

36:16

to school even if it's against the

36:18

school uniform. Write a note. There are

36:20

just... Every battle you fight for them,

36:23

like there's the spoons and allergy, you

36:25

wake up every day with a certain

36:27

amount of spoons as in your divergent

36:29

person and you have to choose where

36:31

you spend the spoons. And you've got

36:33

to think about, is it worth a

36:35

spoon right now? Because if you get

36:37

into it with your kid, you're taking

36:39

away a spoon for them for the

36:41

day. So pick your battles because you've

36:43

got to ask yourself in the moment,

36:46

it doesn't really matter. And am I

36:48

saying no you can't have cake for

36:50

breakfast because I've got this kind of

36:52

weird deep-seated fear of being judged? Because

36:54

I'm a bad parent because I'm giving

36:56

my kid sugar and I want people

36:58

to think I'm a good parent and

37:00

I don't want him to go to

37:02

school and blah blah blah. So if

37:04

that's how you ask yourself the question

37:06

to figure out, I suppose what's... Is

37:08

it worth it? Is it worth it

37:11

or not? Do you have an example

37:13

of something that was absolutely worth it?

37:15

Yeah. it's a safety thing yeah if

37:17

he's doing something completely unhinged like you

37:19

know like say with a pair of

37:21

handcuffs yeah fair enough and I think

37:23

oh mom the mailman's been straight to

37:25

the fence for the last two hours

37:27

there are I really come down strong

37:29

on mean yeah if he really goes

37:31

hard on there's a difference between blunt

37:34

and being mean yeah so I just

37:36

think I do there are certain situations

37:38

if he says something really awful And

37:40

I sit and we talk about it.

37:42

We talk about how words really have

37:44

an effect. Sometimes words hurt more than

37:46

actual physical violence. And he's never hit

37:48

anyone, but I know I would come

37:50

down hard on that. There are certain

37:52

things that I do think are really

37:54

important. The way he treats the other

37:57

members of the family, the way he

37:59

treats our animals, like he's great. But

38:01

I really, I really have to come

38:03

down hard on Leo. But yeah, there

38:05

are a few times, but most of

38:07

the time, it's not worth it. Yeah.

38:09

I'd say eight out of ten times,

38:11

it's not worth it. Yeah. It's just

38:13

not. And some of the, I mean,

38:15

you've already gone through some of the

38:17

other kind of, I suppose traditional norms,

38:20

like you're eating cake for breakfast or

38:22

like getting to bed and time. There's

38:24

time, so you're a good guy. Yeah.

38:26

And probably, you know, either wake up

38:28

super early or don't want to wake

38:30

up at all. So just stuff like

38:32

that, you can make their bedtime just

38:34

a bit later because that's their natural

38:36

circadian rhythm. So the way we produce

38:38

our melatonin is completely different in our

38:40

brains to how neurotypical people do it.

38:43

So we don't start getting tired for

38:45

quite a while afterwards. So look at

38:47

bedtime. I guess also look at if

38:49

they need an afternoon off school or

38:51

a day off school because they're tired,

38:53

just let them have it. As long

38:55

as it's not all the time. It's

38:57

so fine. They can do some work

38:59

from home, if it suits you, if

39:01

you don't have to work. But there

39:03

are just things that... You can change,

39:06

don't take him to supermarkets if you

39:08

can avoid it. The fluorescent lighting is

39:10

a hate crime or take the noise

39:12

cancelling headphones. We have a bag that

39:14

has noise cancelling headphones, steam toys, we

39:16

have just a bag that I take

39:18

everywhere, that I can just put in

39:20

his lap when I know we have

39:22

to go somewhere that's going to challenge

39:24

him. But yeah, I don't know, I

39:26

don't know, there's just, if one day

39:29

they don't want to wear, Elio likes

39:31

to wear his clothes backwards all the

39:33

time, we just all the time, and

39:35

we just do, we just do it,

39:37

and we just do it, and we

39:39

just do it, we just do it,

39:41

we just do, we just do, we

39:43

just do, we just do, we just

39:45

do, we just do, we just do,

39:47

we just, just, just, we just, we

39:49

just, we just, just, just, just, and

39:52

it, and it, and it, and it,

39:54

and it, and it, and it, and

39:56

it, But now I'm like, yeah, we

39:58

should walk around his clothes close on

40:00

backwards. If he doesn't care, why should

40:02

I? Yeah. I think when you are

40:04

feeling bad about something in a situation

40:06

with your kid, you've really got to

40:08

ask yourself, am I parenting this person

40:10

as though they are neurotypical or am

40:12

I honouring who they are as a

40:14

new or divergent person? And if you

40:17

can get yourself into that camp, yeah,

40:19

you'll be okay. And I think that's

40:21

the hardest part with motherhood, particularly online,

40:23

is a very unrelated reflection of what

40:25

motherhood should look like online. And so

40:27

I think- Unfollow those people. No, I'm

40:29

deadly serious. You need to do an

40:31

absolute audit of your social media. because

40:33

you are absorbing so much of it,

40:35

and while it's nice to follow aspirational

40:37

people, that's not their life, and you

40:40

need to find your community, and you

40:42

need to find women that reflect where

40:44

you're at, so that when they find

40:46

something that helps them, it's realistic. Absolutely,

40:48

I can't stress that enough. If you

40:50

are in some parenting groups, are you

40:52

following someone online that makes you feel

40:54

bad about yourself? Just unf follow them.

40:56

Or mute them if you feel badly

40:58

for unfollowing them. But I think that's

41:00

a really important one, Steph. There's so

41:03

many, especially now with, and there's a

41:05

lot of companies that prey on the

41:07

parents of autistic ADHDers who like buy

41:09

this calming thing, do this program, go

41:11

to the sleep school, go see this

41:13

expert. And I think you've got to

41:15

be really aware of that. Yeah. But

41:17

you've just got to trust yourself. All

41:19

of us. are doing our best and

41:21

all of us want the best for

41:23

our kids. All of us, every parent

41:26

wants the best for their kid. And

41:28

I think if you just trust yourself

41:30

and trust them, listen to them, ask

41:32

them what they want. So often we

41:34

make decisions for these little people without

41:36

actually including them. Yeah. That's a big

41:38

one. Elio is a big part of

41:40

decision making for he's six now. Yeah,

41:42

if you found that like giving him

41:44

more autonomy with him, it's like made

41:46

it easier. Yes, it's really important because

41:49

I'm not always going to always going

41:51

to be around. I'm just not. So

41:53

I think, um, yeah, just, it's, it's

41:55

glorious and soul destroying all at once.

41:57

But if you're honestly doing your best,

41:59

and if at the end of the

42:01

day, like, you're snuggling your child at

42:03

10 o'clock at night, and you've both

42:05

cried, and you've both, like, you've had

42:07

it, you've all run out of spoons,

42:09

and you're laying there, there's love, and

42:12

you haven't failed, and tomorrow's another day.

42:14

and I think there's just so much

42:16

pressure and I see you do it

42:18

to yourself. I see you. Sometimes I

42:20

feel like calling you and going bad.

42:22

Stop it. But I know with you

42:24

with the second one coming now I

42:26

need you to just be easy on

42:28

yourself. I was just um... Oh no!

42:30

How always make you cry? No, I

42:32

just... It made me think like there's

42:35

been a few particularly bad... When I

42:37

say bad, I mean like I've been

42:39

incredibly... Just regulated so as he exploded

42:41

at each other That's okay. And we

42:43

have we've gone to sleep cuddling in

42:45

this state of me feeling like a

42:47

back of shit and then him falling

42:49

asleep with a The shuddering God they're

42:51

shattering I know even just hearing you

42:53

like remind me that the fact that

42:55

I'm there and I'm cuddling him and

42:58

that probably the next day we'll talk

43:00

about what happened but like That's okay.

43:02

That's happened. Of course it's okay. And

43:04

it's normal. And it's so beautiful that

43:06

you've come back together. And that's the

43:08

most important lesson that you can teach

43:10

Harvey. It doesn't matter how angry you

43:12

get. Love is there. And I say

43:14

that to Elio all the time. Even

43:16

when mommy's angry with you, I love

43:18

you. And it'll be like, even if

43:20

I did this? Yes. Yes. So I

43:23

think when you're not or worked up.

43:25

It's important to say, you know, when

43:27

we yell at each other, I love

43:29

you so much, I'm obsessed with you.

43:31

Like I say to him, I'm obsessed

43:33

with you. And if he knows that,

43:35

then he'll fly off and do all

43:37

sorts of other things, but he's got

43:39

that tight anchor, he's tied to you.

43:41

But you're both struggling with emotional regulation,

43:43

and you're figuring it out together, and

43:46

that's okay. It's okay. I think that

43:48

language around like yeah always love you

43:50

or like for us at the moment

43:52

he's for the last couple months he

43:54

say where he's best friends or you're

43:56

not... I love that! But he also

43:58

says you're not my best friend anymore.

44:00

Oh totally, they weaponized it. Oh well

44:02

you did yesterday. I've got it written

44:04

down. So I think, yeah even just

44:06

probably going back to him with, oh

44:09

you know what, sometimes mum gets upset.

44:11

with something that you've said or done,

44:13

but you're always my best friend. I

44:15

do that at the time. I say

44:17

to you, you know what, sometimes you

44:19

do things that are really annoying and

44:21

you'll laugh and you'll be like, what?

44:23

Don't give you the ideas. No, but

44:25

I say to him, I'm like, when

44:27

I ask you to clean your teeth

44:29

and you take 15 minutes, and at

44:32

night, you know, you're going to have

44:34

to have to have a shower every

44:36

night regardless. Why do you make a

44:38

shower every night, So, and I gain

44:40

him, we have a stopwatch in every

44:42

room. So, we've found that made a

44:44

huge difference with Harvey's, if he can

44:46

visually see his... If he can see

44:48

it counting down. The ADHD King. Yeah,

44:50

there's like no... Oh no. There's almost

44:52

no arguments at that point, like... Get

44:55

the water timer on your phone, it's

44:57

amazing. Okay. the water fills up the

44:59

screen. Oh, cool. And Elio likes to

45:01

see what level. We have a timer

45:03

with stoplight timer, we time, everything is

45:05

gamified. Yeah. And he says to me,

45:07

I know what you're doing. And I

45:09

go, you love it. You guys, I

45:11

do? Well, it's interesting, because I will

45:13

say, OK, we're watching two episodes of

45:15

Blueie, for example. He will race to

45:18

find the remote after the second one

45:20

is ended. because that's what his mind

45:22

was set to too. Yeah, and I

45:24

mean like obviously occasionally like if I

45:26

haven't been as clear at the start

45:28

like he'll be like oh another one

45:30

or like no no play with it.

45:32

Always I'm like I don't negotiate the

45:34

terrorists so no. But if it goes

45:36

off, he's so much quicker than accepting

45:38

it because there's either been a time

45:41

or parameters. You set the rules rule.

45:43

And often with ADHD kids, there's a

45:45

lot of anxiety and autistic kids. So

45:47

if you say to them, they like

45:49

to know what's going to Elio, like

45:51

to know the weather, with deities, what's

45:53

going to happen? What's going to happen?

45:55

What's going to happen? What's going to

45:57

happen? What's going to happen? What's going

45:59

to happen? What's going to happen? and

46:01

then I'm gonna do the food shopping

46:04

and then I'm gonna get dinner and

46:06

then I'm gonna pick you up and

46:08

then we're gonna go home and have

46:10

a snack and talk about our days

46:12

and he smiles a whole way through

46:14

and he feels safe. Yeah I noticed

46:16

that heaps in the weeks that I'm

46:18

particularly busy with work or you know

46:20

maybe not home at night or leaving

46:22

before he wakes up in the morning

46:24

and things are a little bit off.

46:27

He... is so much more fragile with

46:29

that shift rather than me explaining, like

46:31

if it is going to be a

46:33

busy way, like, oh, I'm flying to

46:35

Sydney, I'm going to go on an

46:37

airplane, it'll be two nights, like, or,

46:39

yeah. That's crazy. He's okay. Yeah, no,

46:41

that's, that's, that's been, that's a huge,

46:43

but sometimes it's hard for us to

46:45

remember to do that, and we can't

46:47

be bullied. you've already kind of lightly

46:49

touched on a few things like bedtime

46:52

being a little bit more flexible. I'd

46:54

love to know what are some other

46:56

kind of norms that you might have

46:58

changed in your household for your family

47:00

that's worked for you guys and also

47:02

in that Josh and I, we are

47:04

aligned on so many things and have

47:06

come from, you know, very similar backgrounds.

47:08

However, he's come from a family home

47:10

that was quite, you know, doors need

47:12

to be opened, rooms need to be

47:15

cleaned. There was rules and blah, blah,

47:17

blah. Mine, I mean, like I still

47:19

got nagged by my mom to clean

47:21

my room, but it was a bit

47:23

more relaxed and in that kind of

47:25

environment. I didn't, I wasn't made to

47:27

feel like I... hated my room or

47:29

didn't respect any of my staff if

47:31

I didn't keep them clean or tidy

47:33

or whatever. And so I think where

47:35

Josh and I sometimes butt heads is

47:38

in rules and like expectations on things

47:40

and stuff like that. Again, sometimes it's

47:42

more me. Sometimes the regimented kind of

47:44

bedtimes and stuff like that has come

47:46

from the pressure of thinking that this

47:48

is the way things need to be

47:50

and that's generally more so may than

47:52

him. But things like Harvey's done something

47:54

and there needs to be some sort

47:56

of consequence or whatever. finding a place

47:58

there has been hard at times and

48:01

I wonder with some of these switches

48:03

you've made with your family did you

48:05

and your husband always kind of on

48:07

it at first, maybe you eventually did,

48:09

but at first did you? And what

48:11

are they? It's hard. The ADHD autism

48:13

for me is the double-edged sort of,

48:15

I also have OCD, and when I

48:17

am feeling dysregulated, my immediate stress response

48:19

is to clean, and then I get

48:21

really stressed and my daughter sitting out

48:24

there now, she'll be smiling if she

48:26

can hear, she probably can't hear, thank

48:28

God. My I then say to everybody

48:30

right the house is a mess everybody

48:32

stop what you're doing. There's four adults

48:34

here. Why am I the only one

48:36

tidying and So then I make everybody

48:38

clean it like it's a display home.

48:40

Yeah, so I'm definitely the mother that

48:42

goes to that for, and I'm, you

48:44

know, and the guys, my family call

48:47

it at them, they know, and they're

48:49

like, are you okay? Are you stressed?

48:51

Why are you cleaning? My room is

48:53

so messy all of the time, but

48:55

the rest of the house, my house

48:57

is always pretty clean because I obsessively,

48:59

when my brain feels disorganized, I go

49:01

to the cleaning. For us, the biggest

49:03

change that we all agreed on was

49:05

we used to all sit down for

49:07

family dinner. And that was the thing

49:10

that I would watch, you know, on

49:12

the one-day years, that was something that

49:14

happened on television. My family did it.

49:16

But I always, I hate sitting still

49:18

for a long time. I like to

49:20

eat on the ground, like in a

49:22

princess layer position. We're all funny with

49:24

our food and we all have very

49:26

specific, but we would for years sit

49:28

down at the table all there with

49:30

the food out and then I realized

49:33

one day I find eating really stressful.

49:35

I had trigger warning. I had an

49:37

ED for most of my life, binge

49:39

eating disorder. and that was you know

49:41

a way of controlling myself throughout the

49:43

day I wouldn't eat anything because I'd

49:45

be so stressed and I also wanted

49:47

to feel in control and then I

49:49

would finally about 10 o'clock when everyone

49:51

was in bed and I felt like

49:53

all the adrenaline of my body I

49:55

would eat like three huge meals and

49:58

so foods always been weird for me.

50:00

and I realized I'd never like sitting

50:02

down and eating in front of other

50:04

people. And if my emotions are off,

50:06

my appetite goes. So once I realized,

50:08

and I happened over COVID, when we

50:10

were all just all the time, yeah.

50:12

And I realized just naturally we all

50:14

just started eating whenever we wanted to.

50:16

And that really suited us. And I

50:18

realized I was also quite clenched every

50:21

day around dinner time. and I would

50:23

sit down and be stressed and I

50:25

think I didn't really tie that in

50:27

with my newer divergence until I was

50:29

diagnosed and till COVID and our routines

50:31

really went to shit and I realized

50:33

how much happier everyone was around dinner

50:35

time. So now whoever's turnities to cook

50:37

dinner it just gets cooked and it

50:39

gets denounced and then everyone scurries in

50:41

at different times of the night. Sometimes

50:44

we all sit together. We usually all

50:46

eat now in the lounge room sitting

50:48

on the couch. Yeah, it's how my

50:50

family used to do it a lot.

50:52

None of us like to sit at

50:54

a table and chairs like we all

50:56

of my family members struggle so we

50:58

all like to sprawl out and and

51:00

eat so that was the biggest one

51:02

for us was the change around eating.

51:04

Yeah, okay. Because I was really thinking

51:07

that to be a good family and

51:09

be a connected parent, I need to

51:11

sit with my kids every day at

51:13

the table and ask them, what was

51:15

the best thing about your day? What

51:17

was the worst thing about your day?

51:19

What was the worst thing about your

51:21

day? What was the worst thing about

51:23

your day? What was the worst thing

51:25

about your day? What did you learn?

51:27

And just chatting to walk to anywhere

51:30

anyone. We just scream across anywhere else.

51:32

We just scream across the house. but

51:34

I have not gotten on top of

51:36

wanting things clean. I also have worked

51:38

my ass off with certain responses to

51:40

Elio's meltdowns or behaviors or routines. I've

51:42

worked really hard to get those in

51:44

place and when Scott doesn't adhere to

51:46

those things that we know work, it

51:48

drives me wild. Like I know he

51:50

has to get home from school, we

51:53

take off our uniform, we put his

51:55

school bag in a little pigeon hole,

51:57

he puts his uniform in the wash,

51:59

he puts on some comfy clothes and...

52:01

we empty out his lunchbox and we

52:03

put on the bench and that's the

52:05

routine. It just makes it easier for

52:07

me the next day when I have

52:09

to make the lunch, I don't be

52:11

pulling out old food. And Scott has

52:13

not done that once after pick up

52:16

and it's like it feels like a

52:18

deliberate sabotage. Like he just doesn't care

52:20

as much as I do. So it's

52:22

those things are tough. Yeah. Because I

52:24

am an agent of chaos most of

52:26

the time, but if a routine works,

52:28

this is the ADHD autism struggle. I

52:30

become militant about it. Like, there is,

52:32

I am black and white. That's the

52:34

thing that we said would happen. It's

52:36

in place, and that's autism. But the

52:39

anarchist in me who gets bored with

52:41

routine and just wants to be like,

52:43

oh, yellow, well, let's feel everything. That's

52:45

the ADHD. Interesting. And when I medicated,

52:47

my autism symptoms are really high. Okay.

52:49

Because my ADHD is taken care of.

52:51

So, it's hard to have hard and

52:53

fast rules in a neurodegent household. household

52:55

household. making allowances where it suits everybody,

52:57

so for us it was the meal

52:59

time, but also if you find things

53:01

that work, respect the process. Yeah, I

53:04

get it. Like it's a give and

53:06

take. It can't be like, it can't

53:08

be like, every day you have to

53:10

be like, is there a compromise here?

53:12

Is there a, but for the after-school

53:14

routine, I am ADA, I am autistic

53:16

rigid on that with, and when Scott

53:18

doesn't do it, it feels like an

53:20

attack on my ancestors, okay. I melt

53:22

down. Yeah, I mean it's interesting because

53:24

I say that in Harvey's and like

53:27

he he very quickly like we only

53:29

have to do something twice and then

53:31

it's this is the this is now

53:33

how things happen. My mom was staying

53:35

with us this week and he wet

53:37

the bed and she just handled it

53:39

a little differently than how we would.

53:41

Nothing wrong with what she did obviously.

53:43

But Josh and I are pretty quick,

53:45

only because he has had like sleep

53:47

troubles and stuff like that. We're pretty

53:50

quick to keep all the lights pretty

53:52

much off. use our foreign torture if

53:54

we really need to see something, strip

53:56

the bed, get him in the shower

53:58

for like literally two seconds, back into

54:00

bed as quick as possible with a

54:02

towel, don't need to be remaking the

54:04

bed at this time of the night

54:06

or anything, and then getting him back

54:08

to sleep. And my mum the other

54:10

night, she stripped him off, stripped the

54:13

bed, and I think she ended up

54:15

maybe taking him... to bed with her

54:17

for like a cuddle or something like

54:19

that and then he started demanding that

54:21

she gave him a shower. Yeah. And

54:23

I think in her mind she was

54:25

like oh but that's going to wake

54:27

him up not knowing like how we

54:29

were doing it and then even when

54:31

she did get him in the shower

54:33

she grabbed the it's one of the

54:36

showers you can like pull off the

54:38

thing. Oh right, right, right. And I

54:40

ended up going up and helping her

54:42

out but yeah I felt so bad

54:44

because because she was like, oh, yeah,

54:46

I don't think that's how you guys

54:48

do it. And I was like, how

54:50

are you to know? I know, and

54:52

that's the struggle of, like with Elio,

54:54

he's autistic, that's not going to change.

54:56

And he relies on the way things

54:59

are for his own kind of to

55:01

feel like he's not in free fall,

55:03

for his own anxiety levels. That's the

55:05

way autistic brains are. We're not going

55:07

to change that about him. But you

55:09

also have your mom, you don't want

55:11

to be like your mom. You don't

55:13

want to be like to be like

55:15

to be like to be like to

55:17

be like to be like to be

55:19

like to be like to be like

55:22

to be like to be like, I

55:24

really appreciate that. a little bit of

55:26

internalized ableism, my kid seems like an

55:28

unreasonable asshole right now. And it's hard

55:30

to then go back to be like,

55:32

no, that's. But this is how he.

55:34

That's how he is. It's like asking

55:36

him to change his hair color. And

55:38

it is that push pool, especially with

55:40

you and I late diagnosed. We learn

55:42

to just go along with it even

55:45

though we were on fire inside. We

55:47

would just like bite our lip and

55:49

just do the thing even though it

55:51

felt so off and foreign. We have

55:53

two little boys and boys also, they're

55:55

just not expected by society to have

55:57

the same politeness that we had. So

55:59

my girls learn to mask. But Elio

56:01

and Harvey, they feel no such need

56:03

and they will tell everybody if something's

56:05

wrong. So I think that it's... tough.

56:08

I don't have an answer for you.

56:10

I'm so sorry. No, that's fine. But

56:12

finding stuff that you can alleviate the

56:14

pressure on, so for us it was

56:16

dinner time. Yeah. That was a big,

56:18

big game changer. It was just that

56:20

was the thing I identified. I was

56:22

like, I'm only doing this because I

56:24

think I should be doing it. Not

56:26

because I want to. That's a good

56:28

actual cognitive behavioral therapy kind of trigger.

56:30

Do I want to or do I

56:33

think? I don't know, I'm making this

56:35

up. I think that's a really nice

56:37

reminder and I think you even just

56:39

saying you being you, I think that's

56:41

kind of what I try and come

56:43

back to when I do have these

56:45

situations where I flip out or maybe

56:47

I'm not showing up as what I've

56:49

perceived in the past as the perfect

56:51

mom. I think for anyone listening if

56:53

they are someone who do struggle with

56:56

emotional dysregulation or that sort of staff,

56:58

it's like you're just showing them that

57:00

that that... at the end of the

57:02

day is okay. That not what we've

57:04

been taught in that you're a bad

57:06

person, you have to hide the stuff

57:08

out of that. Otherwise no one will

57:10

like you. Exactly. And I try and

57:12

remind myself of that in these moments.

57:14

But if you are... struggling with emotional

57:16

regulation, you can go to a psychologist,

57:19

you can, there's lots of resources online

57:21

because it's horrible to be a slave

57:23

to your emotions and I hate that.

57:25

I really feel out of control and

57:27

I never know, until I kind of

57:29

understood it more, I always felt like

57:31

I would wake up and feel like

57:33

I was on this insane car ride

57:35

and I wasn't the driver. So I

57:37

think for me getting on the meds,

57:39

doing a lot of work and getting

57:42

the exercise in and changing my diet

57:44

and doing all the things I can.

57:46

has really enabled me to gain control

57:48

of that car. So if you are

57:50

somebody listening now thinking, you know, I

57:52

go to zero to 100 and I

57:54

feel everything in my gut and one

57:56

little thing happens at eight, my whole

57:58

day is thrown, there are things you

58:00

can do to help yourself which then

58:02

puts you in better stead to deal

58:05

with your kids when they are at

58:07

a 10. You know, if you can

58:09

regulate yourself, whatever happens with your kids,

58:11

you are... ready to face. But if

58:13

you both come and just regulated, it's

58:15

going to be hard. You know, yeah,

58:17

yeah. Oh, you're okay. Thanks. You're like,

58:19

you are like, you are so hard

58:21

on yourself. I can't wait for you

58:23

to be, I'm 46 in a week.

58:25

and I cannot wait for you to

58:28

be my age because my level of

58:30

fuck, I choose chaos every day. I

58:32

say when I, the veil has dropped

58:34

and I see you and I was

58:36

the same as you at your age

58:38

and I now am so glad that

58:40

I'm at a point in my life

58:42

where I, yeah, I just... I'm just

58:44

not going to put out with this

58:46

shit. It's just, I'm not interested in

58:48

it. It does not serve me. And

58:51

when I talk about the shit, I

58:53

mean, the patriarchy, the way society's been

58:55

set up, the way my husband behaves,

58:57

the way certain other people in the

58:59

media behave. I now just, I just

59:01

won't. I won't absorb it, I won't

59:03

give it, engage with it, or I'll

59:05

call it out. I can't be fucked.

59:07

I promise you there's a light at

59:09

the end of the tunnel. It's 16

59:11

years away for you, but... Well, I

59:14

feel like I'm on my way, I

59:16

do, because I even like reflect on

59:18

how I, in my late teens, or

59:20

even early 20s, I was incredibly confident,

59:22

sure of myself, like, it felt like

59:24

I was going in the right direction,

59:26

everything was working out, you know, I

59:28

felt like people were telling me that,

59:30

again, it wasn't always direct, like people

59:32

weren't always like, you're rude or anything

59:34

like that, but it was just from

59:36

seeing people complement other people for things

59:39

that I didn't necessarily always show up

59:41

that same way. I was then indirectly

59:43

being like, okay, because I don't do

59:45

those things. I mustn't be a very

59:47

liked person or whatever. And then I

59:49

think through my 20s, it's just been

59:51

about... trying to be more likeable and

59:53

change the little things that I think

59:55

are actually going to make. Your whole

59:57

job. And it's changing now. Depends on

59:59

people like me. It's very unhealthy. So

1:00:02

does mine. Many people like me. I

1:00:04

want them to come. to my stand-up

1:00:06

shows. Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah. Because I

1:00:08

don't know that I'm very likable ultimately.

1:00:10

But I think the more you get

1:00:12

into, the more authentically you can show

1:00:14

up, which ultimately is you can only

1:00:16

really do if you like who you

1:00:18

are. Yeah. That's I think what people

1:00:20

are attracted to. But you also, I'm

1:00:22

at a point where now, I don't

1:00:25

have a choice. This is who I

1:00:27

am. I'm too tired to show up.

1:00:29

trying to guess what people want from

1:00:31

me in that moment. I'm just going

1:00:33

to show up as me and I'm

1:00:35

pretty confident in her now. I've done

1:00:37

a lot of work on her, but

1:00:39

if that's not for somebody that's okay.

1:00:41

Yeah. Whereas in the past I would

1:00:43

be obsessed about how I could win

1:00:45

the mover. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway,

1:00:48

thanks. Thank you. That's it for episode

1:00:50

four. I highly recommend listening to M's

1:00:52

podcasts, which definitely is all about ADHD

1:00:54

and autism and so much more. It's

1:00:56

called M'solation. We'll make sure there is

1:00:58

a link to it in the show

1:01:00

notes. And before I go, I did

1:01:02

want to leave you with another ADHD

1:01:04

special share. It's a resource that I've

1:01:06

found helpful in this journey that I

1:01:08

think you might too. And it's actually

1:01:11

Instagram pages slash podcast. His name is

1:01:13

Alex Partridge. He's, I think from the

1:01:15

UK, I found him on Instagram, Alex

1:01:17

underscore Partridge, underscore 100. And his podcast

1:01:19

is. ADHD chatter podcast. I've found his

1:01:21

videos and snippets from both his podcast

1:01:23

and also just his personal page. Really,

1:01:25

really informative. So we'll make sure there's

1:01:27

a link in the shownotes for those

1:01:29

too. Now, the next episode, I speak

1:01:31

with entrepreneur and business coach Ari Scott,

1:01:34

all about ADHD and entrepreneurship. When you

1:01:36

have ADHD, and it sounds like this

1:01:38

was your experience too, we don't typically

1:01:40

tend to do well in the traditional

1:01:42

structures systems in society, right? So I

1:01:44

was really, bad at being

1:01:46

an employee, just

1:01:48

really bad. But I'm

1:01:50

really good at

1:01:52

being an entrepreneur. I

1:01:54

was really bad

1:01:57

at school. I was But

1:01:59

I'm pretty smart, pretty

1:02:01

But But it's delivering

1:02:03

in a way

1:02:05

that doesn't work for

1:02:07

our brains, that's

1:02:09

problematic. So entrepreneurship becomes

1:02:11

a lifeline. And

1:02:13

the reason it's a lifeline is

1:02:15

because a you look at the

1:02:18

characteristics of highly successful entrepreneurs, you

1:02:20

get pretty much the same list

1:02:22

as list as symptoms. symptoms. If you

1:02:24

you have any feedback on this episode

1:02:26

the the mini in in general, love love

1:02:28

to hear from you. Please slide

1:02:30

into our our with a with a voice memo via

1:02:32

the kick Pod Instagram. And I'll be back

1:02:34

in your areas very soon. very soon.