0:24

Hi, I'm Dr. Scott. And

0:26

I'm Dr. Shiloh. And this is LA

0:28

Not So Confidential, the Forensic Psychology and

0:30

True Crime podcast. In each

0:33

episode, we explore the intersection of

0:35

psychology, the criminal justice system, and

0:37

entertainment. And today, our episode

0:39

is on the forensic psych topic of

0:41

when bad things happen to wealthy people.

0:51

Welcome back. Happy April

0:53

to our listeners. How

0:56

you doing, Dr. Scott? So far, so good.

0:58

We are organizing and kind of moving into

1:00

this new schedule that we've been doing since

1:02

the beginning of the year. It's kind of

1:04

working for us. I feel like I've had

1:06

more time to catch up. You

1:09

too life and I have in a very long

1:11

time, which is kind of a good thing. There's

1:13

a lot of stuff that's been on the back

1:15

burner that I'm getting to finalize, which is good.

1:17

Yeah, I also feel like I'm in

1:19

this lull at work. Usually I have, you

1:21

know, sort of like presentations or trainings that

1:24

are on my schedule and calendar that I'm

1:26

constantly trying to prep for. And I kind

1:28

of feel like I'm in a lull, which

1:31

I'm enjoying like. Making myself enjoy

1:33

because usually it's like flying by the seat

1:35

of my pants. But I think this is

1:37

contributing to it like a little more time

1:39

baked in for us and just our regular

1:41

lives. But there are moments of I

1:44

should be doing something. What am I forgetting? Yeah,

1:46

I think it's a lesson for

1:48

everybody, too. As I have shared

1:50

in the last couple of episodes,

1:52

I have transitioned to another position.

1:54

I'm no longer in the co

1:56

-responder slash law enforcement. position

1:59

that I was for the seven and a

2:01

half years. I've gone into something that actually

2:03

is a little bit more forensically oriented. And

2:05

it's been a fantastic opportunity for

2:07

me to turn on another part

2:09

of my brain that's been like,

2:11

that's been an idle mode for

2:13

a few years. So that's really

2:15

great. But as I have told

2:17

Dr. Shiloh several times, it's been

2:19

really jarring because I didn't realize the train

2:22

that I was on for the past seven

2:24

and a half years, the train I was

2:26

on. was a high

2:28

speed rail going 175 miles

2:30

an hour. Just because

2:33

there was always, like every morning,

2:36

was walking into what crisis do

2:38

I have to address this morning?

2:41

What are we going to have to jump to? Are

2:43

we going to have to run to a barricade? Are

2:45

we going to have to go to a hospital, our

2:47

family members blowing up my phone, that kind of thing?

2:50

And it just became the norm. And

2:53

there's a lot of effects on it.

2:55

I mean, I think anybody working in

2:57

emergency services to any degree has that

2:59

sort of experience. So shifting from that

3:01

over the past three months has been

3:04

like, well, I'm supposed to be

3:06

doing something right now. It's like, oh, no, I

3:08

actually already did like a day's work in the

3:10

first. three hours of the day because that's the

3:12

pace I'm used to working at. And

3:14

I will say this, my sleep

3:16

has improved immeasurably. Like I

3:19

did not realize how much my sleep had been

3:21

impacted since COVID when things really ramped up

3:23

for us. So how about you? So

3:25

instead of the train analogy, if we take

3:27

your frog one, you have plucked yourself out

3:29

of the boiling pot of water. Now you're

3:31

like in a lukewarm. little

3:33

simmer. Yeah, but I may have like

3:35

boiled off a couple of legs or

3:37

something. I'm not sure. A

3:40

skin. And maybe like just dragging myself by

3:42

my little frog hands around the office right

3:44

now. We actually would like to burn off a couple layers

3:46

of skin if we could do that in a healthy way. Yeah,

3:49

well you and I do right? Yes,

3:52

so that's where we're at. I hope

3:54

you guys are slowing down when you

3:56

can too, but we are not slowing

3:58

down in terms of things that we

4:01

have planned for in person. So

4:03

we want to remind everyone

4:05

that coming up very soon,

4:07

April 11th, it's a Friday,

4:10

we are going to have a

4:12

very casual meetup come hang with

4:14

us at Bikeshed in downtown LA.

4:17

It's in the arts district. Very

4:19

cool space. We did a

4:22

meetup before Crimecon UK at

4:24

their London location and we

4:26

just adore them and they

4:28

have such an amazing cool

4:30

restaurant and lounge area.

4:33

where they totally welcome LA not

4:35

so confidential. So if you're

4:37

traveling in from out of town, like we

4:39

said before, reach out to us if you

4:41

need a place to stay. Not meaning like

4:43

we're going to put you up ourselves, but

4:45

like we can point you towards a safe

4:47

area and downtown to stay. Parking

4:49

in the arts district is a huge pain.

4:52

So I will just say, come prepared for

4:54

that. Maybe have to walk a block

4:56

or so if you do

4:58

park yourself or Uber's a

5:00

way to go. for sure

5:02

as well. And we'll also

5:04

post the closest available parking

5:06

places. We could do that. Yeah. And

5:09

or if you wanted to park

5:12

someplace that's more centrally located in

5:14

downtown LA, like this is

5:16

the secure high end parking structure and then

5:18

Uber from there. I know that sounds a

5:20

little complex. Long story short, it's worth it.

5:23

The bike shed is a very cool, very

5:26

cool venue that we love. Yeah. Yeah,

5:28

for sure. All right, should we

5:30

get to our last episode recap? Let's

5:32

do it. So in our last

5:35

episode, we brought you a live

5:37

streamed conversation with our esteemed editor

5:39

and creative producer and post production

5:42

sorcerer, Jason Usry. He is the

5:44

creative genius behind Santa Mavia Criminal,

5:46

the satire True Crime podcast. He

5:49

has launched a new podcast of

5:51

a very different nature called Inconceivable.

5:54

the story of Timogen Kenzu, which

5:56

is a real -time journey into

5:58

the seemingly wrongful conviction of

6:00

Mr. Kenzu for the murder

6:02

of Scott Macklam in 1986

6:05

in Port Huron, Michigan.

6:07

It's not a satire, and like

6:09

all of his projects, Jason's heart

6:12

and empathy leads the way as

6:14

he attempts to inch closer to

6:16

justice for both of these men.

6:18

If you want to catch these conversations live, Follow

6:21

us on Facebook and Instagram for live stream dates

6:23

or check out our link tree, which you can

6:25

find in the show notes. All right.

6:28

So on for our topic today,

6:30

we find this incredibly timely and

6:32

have had this kind of in

6:34

our back pocket for a couple

6:36

of months here. Yeah. The phrase,

6:38

eat the rich, originates from the

6:40

writings of Jean -Jacques Rousseau, an

6:44

century French philosopher, and it's

6:46

often attributed to a paraphrase of

6:48

his idea that, quote, when the

6:50

people shall have nothing more to eat, they

6:53

will eat the rich, close quote. While

6:55

there's no direct evidence that he

6:57

wrote these exact words, the sentiment

6:59

aligns with his views on economic

7:01

inequality and the corruption of the

7:03

aristocracy. This idea was

7:05

a reaction to the extreme

7:08

wealth disparity leading up to

7:10

the French Revolution, which was

7:12

like 1789 to 1799, where

7:14

resentment against the ruling class

7:16

fueled radical political movements. So

7:19

do you hear the people saying, Dr. Scott,

7:21

you like that? You like that? I'm finally

7:23

the one to put a musical reference in our intro.

7:25

I'm so proud of you. I'm just

7:27

like so moved. That's not like in

7:30

my top five favorite musicals, but it

7:32

is like the lyrics are really fantastic.

7:34

I wanted to also comment that like You

7:37

know, we're framing a lot of today's

7:39

episode within the context of what is

7:41

going on in our nation's administration right

7:43

now, which is really difficult for a

7:45

lot of people. When I looked at

7:48

like the little script note that you

7:50

have here, that the French Revolution was

7:52

between 1789 and 1799. I was

7:54

like, fuck, 10 years of

7:57

this shit. Oh my God,

7:59

seriously. Sorry for the language,

8:01

folks. No, this is no

8:04

holds barred with this stuff. Seriously.

8:06

Yes. Les Miserables. I can't believe it's not

8:08

in your top five. Well, I believe not

8:10

actually. I do. I mean, I

8:13

like it. It's just not like I

8:15

don't come away from it feeling buoyed.

8:17

Hmm. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting.

8:20

Well, when I saw Wicked for

8:22

the first time, I was like, eh, that was OK. Oh,

8:25

no. With all the Wicked references we've had. Yeah, you

8:27

either get it the first time or you don't. But

8:29

apparently now the movie is bringing over like tons of

8:31

fans, which is cool. Totally. Well.

8:34

Since then, Ethirich has been

8:36

used in various political and

8:38

cultural contexts to criticize economic

8:40

inequality, capitalism, and

8:43

elite privilege. It has

8:45

resurfaced in modern times as a

8:47

slogan for wealth redistribution, social justice

8:49

movements, and even pop culture

8:51

references. So let that

8:54

set the scene for our

8:56

episode today. I'm going

8:58

to pop in with just our trigger

9:00

warning as well. We are talking about

9:03

assassination by gun violence. We're

9:05

talking about man made disasters, which we don't

9:07

talk about very often. But I know that

9:09

sort of freaks people out and you

9:12

probably know what we're talking about, but you definitely

9:14

will by the end of this episode. So again,

9:16

just listen with care with some of those things

9:18

coming up today. Right. So

9:21

now would be the perfect

9:23

time for quote unquote, eat

9:25

the rich media to take

9:27

off. Prices are skyrocketing and

9:29

younger generations, millennials and Gen

9:31

Z are working longer hours

9:33

for less pay than their

9:35

parents. And even though they're

9:37

the most educated generation ever, they're

9:39

buried in debt and still struggling

9:41

to make ends meet. Meanwhile, The

9:44

gap between the wealthy and everybody

9:46

else keeps growing. CEO

9:49

pay has shot up

9:51

by a staggering 1460

9:53

% over the last

9:56

few decades, now averaging

9:58

399 times what the

10:00

typical worker earns without any proof that they're

10:03

working harder or smarter. In fact, there's a

10:05

lot of proof that showing that they don't

10:07

work harder and they don't work smarter. America's

10:10

once thriving middle class is rapidly

10:13

shrinking while billionaires are multiplying. And

10:15

with all this happening, it's no

10:17

wonder that so many people are

10:19

frustrated with the ultra rich and

10:22

questioning how this system keeps

10:24

them on top. After World War

10:26

II, the United States experienced a

10:28

remarkable economic boom that led to

10:30

the rise of a solid and

10:32

growing middle class following decades of

10:34

struggles, again following the

10:36

worldwide depression after the collapse of the

10:38

stock market. This period,

10:41

often referred to as the

10:43

Great Compression, saw a significant

10:45

narrowing of income inequality largely

10:48

due to progressive economic policies

10:50

and widespread prosperity. But...

10:53

boom period was relatively

10:55

short -lived because in the

10:57

decades that followed, shifts in

11:00

government policies and tax structures

11:02

then contributed to a widening

11:04

income gap. which led

11:07

to concerns about the erosion of the

11:09

middle class. But let's stick

11:11

with some of the good stuff that happened.

11:13

In the aftermath of World War II, the

11:15

U .S. economy expanded rapidly and several factors

11:18

contributed to this growth. We have

11:20

the GI Bill, which provided returning

11:22

veterans with benefits such as housing,

11:24

education, and unemployment

11:26

assistance. This legislation played

11:29

a significant role in expanding the

11:31

American middle class by enabling millions

11:33

to purchase homes and pursue higher

11:36

education. But, and not

11:38

just as a side note, not

11:40

all veterans were allowed to access

11:42

these benefits. Black servicemen

11:45

and women were not included

11:47

in the full span of

11:49

benefits, acting as federal Jim

11:51

Crow style impediments. And we

11:53

also have the industrial expansion.

11:55

The war effort had revitalized

11:57

American industries, leading to increased

11:59

production and job creation. This

12:02

industrial boom continued into the

12:04

postwar years, providing ample employment

12:06

opportunities for a broad segment

12:08

of the population. Detroit

12:10

exploded as Motor City with

12:12

multiple auto factories that provided

12:14

solid jobs for returning GIs.

12:17

with these jobs, then becoming

12:19

family legacies. And then

12:21

we have the southern states that boomed

12:23

with widespread textile and clothing production. So

12:26

after World War II, the US had

12:29

some of the highest tax rates in

12:31

history. We call it

12:33

progressive taxation, especially for the

12:36

wealthiest Americans. But instead of

12:38

slowing the economy down, these

12:40

taxes absolutely acted as rocket

12:43

fuel to create one

12:45

of the biggest middle class booms

12:47

in the history of the known

12:50

world. This structure helped redistribute wealth

12:52

and fund public services that benefited

12:54

the broader population or what in

12:56

political terms is known as the

12:59

commons. The commons is a concept

13:01

that's been around since the inception

13:03

of this country and it's really

13:05

not. talked about nearly enough as

13:07

it should. Unfortunately, it gets lumped

13:10

into other terms like socialism instead

13:12

of the commons. Right after the

13:14

war, the top income tax rate

13:16

was a staggering 94 % for

13:19

the richest Americans. So anyone making over

13:21

200 ,000 a year, which

13:23

in today's numbers would be about

13:25

3 million a year. That

13:27

would sound insane by today's standards, but

13:30

it wasn't a flat tax. People only

13:32

paid that high rate on income.

13:35

above that threshold. So

13:37

it's not like we're taxing of all

13:39

the millionaires and billionaires, they are taxed

13:41

for what they make over that amount.

13:44

And for most of the 1950s, the

13:46

highest tax rate stayed around between 91

13:48

and 92%, which meant ultra rich individuals

13:51

were contributing a massive chunk of their

13:53

income to the government. Now, let me

13:55

be careful and make you understand, there

13:58

were also a lot of tax loopholes

14:00

then. One of the reasons

14:02

we have theaters and parks and museums

14:04

across this country is because all these

14:06

wealthy people were like, I got to

14:08

do something. I got to put some

14:10

money somewhere and so I can have

14:12

a ride off. So they created these

14:15

things. So in the middle of the

14:17

Gilded Age, which we're heading back towards,

14:19

a lot of people were building things

14:21

for posterity. But don't be sucked

14:23

into the notion that they were doing it

14:25

just for the good of the commons. They

14:28

were doing it for their own. corporate taxation

14:30

rates. Corporations also had high taxes at the

14:32

time between 40 % and 50 % on

14:34

profits. And the estate tax, which affects inherited

14:37

wealth, had a top rate

14:39

of 77 % for massive estates.

14:42

Capital gains taxes on things

14:44

like stocks were 25 % and

14:46

payroll taxes for Social Security were much lower

14:49

than they are today, and people should not

14:51

be taxed on their social security. But that's

14:53

another soapbox I'm going to leave under my

14:55

chair for today. But within just a few

14:58

decades, starting in the late 70s and early

15:00

80s, policy changes began

15:02

to alter the complete economic

15:04

landscape. So by the early

15:07

1960s, President John F. Kennedy pushed for

15:09

tax cuts, lowering the top rate to

15:11

70 % in 1964. But

15:13

the real shift came in the

15:16

1980s when President Ronald Reagan slashed

15:18

the top rate all the way

15:20

down to 28%. That's when income

15:22

inequality started skyrocketing and the middle

15:24

class began to struggle. This

15:28

is now when we kind of pivot to

15:30

looking at the decline of labor unions. Policies

15:33

that specifically targeted labor unions

15:35

led to a decrease in union

15:37

membership. Unions had historically

15:40

played a crucial role in securing

15:42

better wages and working conditions for

15:44

middle -class workers. And

15:46

yes, this is a complex issue as

15:48

labor unions had allowed corruption of a

15:50

few powerful movers and shakers to poison

15:53

the well as it were. could

15:55

be a great idea for another episode. But

15:58

you and I have worked in

16:01

unions and around people who love their unions

16:03

for a very long time. You and I

16:05

have both been union representatives and board members

16:07

and things like that. I'm a member of

16:09

five unions. There you go.

16:12

There you go. And then

16:14

there was the great explosion of

16:16

globalization and trade policies with free

16:19

trade agreements that led to the

16:21

outsourcing of manufacturing jobs. This

16:24

shift disproportionately affected middle class workers

16:26

and industries like manufacturing and contributed

16:28

to job loss and wage stagnation.

16:31

Detroit, the South and the Midwest.

16:34

All heavily driven by manufacturing jobs began

16:36

to see a closure of plants and

16:38

the loss of jobs. But

16:41

unfortunately, it did not stop in

16:43

the 80s. The Tax Cuts and

16:45

Jobs Act of 2017 went even

16:48

further to reduce taxes for corporations

16:50

and high income individuals. Critics

16:52

argued that such policies exacerbated income

16:54

inequality and did little to benefit

16:57

the middle class. So then

16:59

that led to what we call

17:01

middle class stagnation, because despite overall

17:03

economic growth by numbers, many middle

17:05

class families did not see proportional

17:07

increases in income, rising costs

17:10

of essentials like health care, education and housing,

17:12

further strained middle class

17:14

finances. Another major shift

17:17

was deregulation, which means reducing government

17:19

rules and restrictions on businesses. This

17:21

was another big focus of the Reagan era and

17:23

beyond. Here's what happened. Banks

17:26

and Wall Street were deregulated, which

17:28

led to riskier financial practices. This

17:30

played a huge role in the

17:32

2008 financial crisis. Corporations

17:35

became more powerful and

17:37

many focused on maximizing

17:39

shareholder profits rather than paying

17:41

fair wages or providing benefits. There's another

17:43

factor of this that we won't go

17:45

too far into, but this

17:47

started with Nixon. When Nixon, prior

17:50

to Reagan being in office, actually

17:53

started deconstructing the

17:56

system of medical care in

17:58

our country. And he

18:00

empowered HMOs and insurance companies to become

18:02

for profit. Prior to that, it wasn't

18:04

for profit. Most people had access to

18:07

care. So there were certainly a lot

18:09

more functional hospitals, and they worked better

18:11

than they do today as things have

18:14

become managed care, as they call it.

18:16

Yes, or as one of my

18:19

very favorite professors called it mangled care.

18:21

Yeah, which I think I wrote into

18:23

something I'm going to touch on later.

18:25

But yeah, here we are in America.

18:27

It feels like we're at a bit

18:29

of a crossroads. Right. And again,

18:31

they're with us, you guys. I know just I

18:33

know this is like an economics history

18:36

episode. Maybe some people already

18:38

know if you don't know it, I

18:40

hope that will spark some interest. But

18:42

it's also necessary to understand how we've

18:44

generated an entire generation

18:46

of people into wealth that may seem

18:49

to have like a lack of empathy,

18:51

right? For decades, Americans

18:53

have been told that the American dream means

18:55

that anyone can climb the economic ladder if

18:58

they just work hard enough, which has been

19:00

true for a very narrow slice of the

19:02

population. And by the way, a good portion

19:04

of them were not working that hard and

19:07

don't work that hard to this day.

19:09

More and more people are realizing that that's

19:11

not really how things work. And

19:13

there's also a big portion of the

19:15

population that chooses to live in an

19:17

echo chamber that has now convinced them

19:19

that their lack of movement on the

19:22

ladder of success is because others have

19:24

taken that opportunity away from them. Wealth

19:26

and opportunity aren't as accessible as we were led

19:29

to believe, and inequality is

19:31

getting harder to ignore. So take

19:33

Donald Trump, for example, a guy

19:35

who inherited millions, yet still manages

19:37

to be seen by many voters

19:39

as a regular guy. Meanwhile,

19:41

most of the people who support him

19:44

will never come close to his level

19:46

of wealth. I mean, not even in

19:48

100 lifetimes would they come that close.

19:50

So it's this really strange contradiction, but

19:53

it speaks to how deeply the idea

19:55

of success and self -made wealth is

19:57

ingrained into American culture, even when the

20:00

reality of it does not match up.

20:03

So at the same time, there's this growing

20:05

trend of financially stable young people who

20:07

go out of their way. to

20:09

avoid being seen as privileged. In

20:12

a world where privilege comes with social

20:14

baggage, some are very eager to redefine

20:16

their identities in a way that distances

20:18

them from being labeled as part of

20:21

the problem. An interesting

20:23

offshoot of this is the world of

20:25

high fashion. More and more,

20:27

high fashion is moving away from

20:29

anything that denotes what the label

20:31

is. You can see

20:34

someone wearing a beautiful,

20:36

beautiful cashmere coat. in New

20:39

York. And you can know

20:41

that it's money from the way it's

20:43

cut and the way the person is

20:45

walking, but it has no labels on

20:47

it. It's not super fancy, but that

20:49

coat probably costs a minimum of $12

20:51

,000. That is a

20:53

trend that is going on right now

20:55

in fashion and is being talked about.

20:57

But all of this, this confusion about class,

20:59

success and identity, it shows that we're

21:01

still trying to figure out what economic fairness

21:04

actually looks like in modern America. And

21:07

I know we're going on and on

21:09

and on about this, but this actually

21:11

has a direct nexus to mental health.

21:14

And that's what we're going to get to today. For

21:16

sure. So what we're going to try

21:18

to do here is sort of look

21:21

at the concepts and the research that

21:23

take these historical and sociological perspectives. And

21:26

we want to see how it

21:28

informs the way that people feel.

21:31

when tragedy happens to wealthy individuals

21:33

or perhaps, you know, maybe entities

21:35

or groups. As you may have

21:37

noticed in more recent years with

21:39

the increased social media usage and

21:42

content creation, more insight

21:44

into how people react, cope

21:46

and let their views be known

21:48

on everything is out

21:51

there, right? Including when these

21:53

high profile incidents happen. And

21:55

most of this content is

21:57

not the kindest. It's like, Where

21:59

did the empathy go? The empathy

22:02

is erased when you're behind your computer

22:04

or phone. And it's also

22:06

being demonized in a widespread

22:08

fashion, especially in the manosphere

22:10

and in the evangelical movement,

22:13

which is really absolutely

22:15

mind boggling that Christianity

22:17

would try and deconstruct

22:19

empathy, which is also compassion. And

22:22

compassion is in the Bible multiple times. Crazy

22:24

to me. Yeah, so it's not

22:26

we're not seeing people like pouring

22:28

out their condolences. It's generally jokes

22:30

or in some cases saying out

22:33

loud what some of us might

22:35

be shamefully feeling or thinking. It

22:37

of course doesn't mean everyone feels this

22:39

way. It's a spectrum like always, right?

22:42

But this is the trend that is

22:44

is happening and especially with some of

22:46

these things we're going to talk about today. So

22:49

I think a really good place to

22:51

start to understand this is by looking

22:53

at the psychology of in groups and

22:55

out groups. And I want to

22:58

encourage our listeners, think of

23:00

a time when you demonstrated

23:02

an us versus them mentality,

23:05

let's say as related to your job, right?

23:08

I think that's an easy one for everyone

23:10

to do. It can be how is your

23:12

knowledge different from a client or a customer?

23:14

It can be a social group, maybe that

23:16

you became a part of. because

23:18

of your job, right? No one

23:21

understands what I do, like this

23:23

other person who does what I

23:25

do, whether it's another mental health

23:27

professional, somebody in law enforcement,

23:29

somebody in entertainment. We

23:31

get it. We almost have like a

23:33

language that we don't have to explain

23:35

the backstory of it and we understand

23:38

the ins and outs. I ask you

23:40

to do this because it demonstrates how

23:42

this happens just naturally, right? Especially in

23:44

professions. that are really closely

23:47

linked with our identities. That's why I pick that

23:49

one. We all have worked at some

23:51

point or another. The truth

23:53

is we feel more comfortable in

23:55

our in groups than in out

23:57

groups, people that are different than

23:59

us due to psychological and evolutionary

24:01

factors that we are not

24:03

necessarily consciously aware of. In

24:06

groups, groups we identify with

24:08

based on shared characteristics like culture,

24:11

interests, or background. provide

24:13

a sense of belonging, provides a

24:16

sense of safety and mutual understanding.

24:19

Evolutionarily, humans relied on tight

24:21

-knit groups for survival, fostering

24:23

trust and fostering cooperation for

24:26

the betterment of the human

24:28

race to live on and

24:30

all of that. So

24:32

social identity theory explains that

24:34

we derive self -esteem from

24:37

our social group memberships. leading

24:39

to favoritism towards our in -group

24:42

and potential bias against out

24:44

-groups. Again, this is

24:46

implicit. This is something that

24:48

we know. Hence the reason we need to

24:50

be aware of it so things like discrimination

24:52

doesn't happen. But we're

24:54

saying this is totally natural

24:57

and organic and there's an

24:59

evolutionary reason for it. Additionally,

25:01

cognitive ease plays a role.

25:03

So this is familiarity and

25:05

shared norms. that make

25:08

interactions smoother and hence

25:10

reducing uncertainty and social

25:12

anxiety. There is an

25:14

in -group bias that also occurs

25:16

here. People show a pattern

25:18

of favoring members of one's own in

25:21

-group over out -group members. Innately,

25:23

this likely stems from a will and

25:25

a need to survive again when we

25:27

were cavemen living in our tribes. It

25:30

also makes us as human beings feel

25:33

good to have an in -group,

25:35

right? Each group nourishes its own

25:37

pride, its own vanity, and boasts

25:40

itself as superior. And

25:42

another piece of that is that we

25:44

kind of look at others with contempt

25:46

if they are those outsiders. I

25:49

think this also is worth

25:51

just really quickly speaking on the

25:53

concepts of culture. Culture

25:55

and all the little subcultures that

25:57

we are a part of is

26:00

formulated by the way that we think, how

26:03

that we are raised, you know, some

26:05

of those core beliefs that we come

26:07

to have come from the way that

26:09

we're raised. It's what makes us. And

26:11

in turn, it's how that we end

26:13

up interpreting the world and how it

26:15

makes sense to us. So culture is

26:17

really ingrained deeply within each of us.

26:19

And yet it's something that we don't

26:21

really see that often. It

26:23

impacts almost all of our decision making

26:25

and yet we don't explicitly pay attention

26:28

to it. It's the collection of thoughts,

26:30

behaviors, interpretations, and especially it's the investment

26:32

of time into who we have

26:34

become. It's how people then start

26:36

to see us. So cultural

26:39

conditioning also creates separations. It

26:42

creates barriers and can be filled with

26:44

prejudice. What is preferable

26:46

to us? Who we should

26:48

talk to and what attracts us is

26:50

culturally conditioned and

26:52

cultivated. So with all

26:55

of this, I think one little note

26:57

here about the false consensus effect is

26:59

worth mentioning. This is a

27:02

pervasive cognitive bias that causes people

27:04

to, quote, see their own behavioral

27:06

choices and judgments as relatively common

27:09

and appropriate to existing circumstances. And

27:11

what we do is we overestimate

27:13

how much others agree with us

27:15

and many factors can influence this.

27:18

So For instance, the information

27:20

that is available to us, which is

27:22

called the availability heuristic, it's how we kind

27:25

of have these little mental shortcuts. And

27:27

then it becomes this really difficult

27:30

cycle to get out of when

27:32

we're falling into this false consensus

27:34

effect. So just some

27:36

psycho babble there to kind of

27:39

tie this in to start

27:41

to understand what is part

27:43

of our innate built -in

27:45

biological. behavior that

27:47

keeps us safe? And then how do

27:50

we sort of develop some of these

27:52

thought patterns that are understandable, but also

27:54

we need to pay attention to so

27:56

they don't start to lead to discriminatory

27:58

behaviors? Yes, understandable, but

28:01

can be problematic if we're not

28:03

self aware, right? And

28:05

to move that forward, what's the

28:07

impact of this on those of us

28:10

that are struggling in the mix? Why

28:12

do we feel? Why

28:14

do we act this way? So the

28:16

really good article by Mark Travers, who

28:18

was writing for Forbes magazine. He

28:21

drills down into why some

28:23

people who are successful want

28:26

to downplay their stability and

28:28

also why we love watching rich people

28:30

suffer, which is a really great name

28:32

for an article. I have to say

28:34

it's really good. We're going to give

28:36

you sort of the Cliff Notes version.

28:38

He points out why movies like the menu

28:41

parasite and knives out are

28:43

wildly successful. It's not just

28:45

those movies. There are great

28:47

hit TV shows that I waited to the

28:49

last minute to watch, like Succession, where

28:52

the suffering may not be as

28:54

grungween all as the audience walks

28:57

away pretty content in the misery

28:59

of the characters. I know I'm

29:01

going to be fully authentic and

29:04

transparent here. I was

29:06

so relieved that everything fell apart

29:08

for the most part for the

29:10

characters in succession, because for the

29:12

most part, they were just all

29:14

complete narcopaths. Interesting. You had

29:17

the feeling of relief, like not just like

29:19

Glee or like, oh, yeah, stick it to

29:21

the man, but like relief. That's so interesting.

29:24

Yeah, right. So relief. And I mean,

29:26

if I'm going to try and look

29:28

at it objectively, I'm going to say

29:30

I feel relief because I guess it

29:32

gives me a sense that maybe there's

29:34

some justice. But it's also writing for

29:36

TV and maybe, you know, like. TV

29:38

writers are artists, but then their writers

29:40

are also show runners that have to

29:42

make money on a show. So what

29:44

is going to sell? How can you

29:46

get your message across but also still

29:48

sell a product? So these productions all

29:51

have in common something that makes them

29:53

even more appealing. They show rich people struggling.

29:55

And let's be honest, a lot of us

29:57

love seeing the wealthy go through hard times.

29:59

I mean, Schitt's Creek, one of my favorite

30:01

all time shows. And it's a go -to show

30:03

when I'm like, having a bad

30:05

day. Yeah. It starts with

30:08

the premise that the roses all need

30:10

to be taken down a few notches.

30:12

But it's an absolutely lovely character arc

30:14

that we all get to go, oh,

30:17

look, they're human and they can develop.

30:19

There's something in there. And

30:21

we should give that sort

30:23

of possibility for almost everyone.

30:25

But this is also the

30:27

real world, right? Well, Yeah, exactly. And

30:29

what you're saying, you know, just kind of this

30:32

start and lead up of what we love to

30:34

consume in terms of media and entertainment. It's

30:36

art imitating life. Like it's the epitome of

30:38

that saying in a way. Absolutely. And

30:41

it's what's fascinating to me because

30:43

we're watching Paradise right now. So

30:45

Paradise is a post -apocalyptic or

30:47

apocalyptic drama, like because there's some

30:49

things happening concurrently, which is really

30:51

well constructed. And for me, actually

30:53

kind of hard to watch. There

30:55

are some things that's so good.

30:57

There are some things that really

30:59

disturbed me about it. But they

31:01

started planning that show like two

31:04

and a half years ago and shooting it.

31:06

It's like, wait, you saw all this kind

31:08

of coming? Holy crap, because it's so prescient,

31:10

you know? But I think that's also what

31:12

really good writing does. It sort of looks

31:14

at what's happening right now and projects

31:17

like, well, if this is happening,

31:19

then a sequel could be this. And it's

31:21

not just in movies either. protests,

31:23

memes, even social media jokes will

31:25

often take aim at billionaires and

31:28

the ultra rich. And there's a

31:30

reason eat the rich has become

31:32

a popular catchphrase again, because it

31:34

taps into a deeper frustration with

31:36

wealth inequality. But the

31:38

question is, why do

31:41

people actually enjoy watching the downfall

31:43

of the rich? Is it David

31:45

taking down Goliath? You know, Traverse

31:48

reviews some of our peers, you

31:50

know, those in our field

31:52

of psychology that have been doing research

31:54

on this subject. And he really boils

31:56

it down into a few salient points,

31:59

very, very astutely. First, and

32:01

I'm so glad he fits this point as

32:03

the beginning because it is one of my

32:05

favorite words in the world. It has been

32:07

and like, I'm telling on myself, I'm telling

32:09

on how little evolved I am. And

32:11

that is Schadenfreude. And

32:13

Schadenfreude is the German word

32:15

for harmjoy, basically, feeling

32:18

pleasure. That's someone else's misfortune,

32:20

and it's out of the context

32:22

of desiring. Comeuppance, right? And comeuppance

32:24

is from being from Southern culture,

32:26

believe me. Getting too big for

32:28

your britches was a big part

32:31

of like my upbringing in our

32:33

family culture. And I think it's

32:35

also, it's important for people who

32:37

actually individually have gone through hard

32:39

times. They have faced hardships. They

32:41

can get a little bit of, you

32:43

know, a tickle, like saying, okay, finally,

32:46

that person is actually having to face

32:48

real life, right? Now,

32:51

let's, I want to be also

32:53

forward like, you know, pleasure at someone

32:55

else's pain is a bit like sadism.

32:57

This is different, though, because in really

32:59

my clinical opinion, it is

33:01

the inward and the outward

33:03

expression of a desire for

33:05

stability and a reflection

33:07

of some healthy parts

33:10

of righteousness and some unhealthy

33:12

aspects of self -righteousness. So

33:14

there's a thin line there

33:16

that I think a lot

33:18

of people are not particularly aware of.

33:20

And while I am way familiar

33:22

with Schadenfreude, like I said, I

33:25

mean, I'm working on tapping it down.

33:27

Don't worry, folks. I'm really working on

33:29

it. Travers find some great research on

33:31

emotional experience that pulls from a journal

33:33

called New Ideas in Psychology. And

33:35

the writer breaks the concept down into three

33:37

main types, which is kind of amazing, because

33:39

I didn't really think that you would be

33:41

able to further boil that down as a

33:44

concept. But this is interesting. So first of

33:46

all, he says rivalry shot in Friday. We

33:49

naturally compare ourselves to others, especially

33:51

those who have more. Ooh, guilty.

33:53

Like I'm pounding a buzzer right

33:55

now, right? When someone

33:58

of higher status stumbles, it

34:00

can make us feel better about our own

34:02

situation. Number two, aggression

34:04

shot in Friday. And this

34:06

comes from an us versus

34:08

them mindset. When wealthy elites,

34:11

the them in this equation

34:13

struggle, it reinforces

34:15

our sense of belonging to

34:17

the us, the regular people.

34:19

And what's wild is I

34:21

know some people that have

34:23

never been regular people. Yeah,

34:26

they will never be regular people, but

34:28

they really do see themselves as regular

34:30

people. I mean, I'm talking about people

34:32

that I know that are from generation

34:35

after generation after generation of ultra wealthy.

34:37

They've had a rarefied life, their

34:39

entire existence. But God

34:41

love you for that perspective. And

34:43

finally, there's justice shot in Friday.

34:46

And this is about fairness. If

34:49

someone who seems undeserving of their wealth

34:51

or power faces consequences, it feels like

34:53

justice is being served. Like there's a

34:55

lot of new money that's been generated

34:57

by probably the top 5 % of

35:00

influencers in the world. And when they

35:02

act like assholes or jerks or they

35:04

do things that hurt other people or

35:06

annoy other people, those are the ones

35:09

that you like really enjoy the comeuppance

35:11

up. I believe. In other words,

35:13

when the rich who often seem

35:15

untouchable, finally face some hardship, it

35:18

feels like there's a balance that

35:20

is being restored. Hence

35:22

your feeling of relief, right?

35:25

Exactly. So following shot in Freud, did I

35:27

say that right? I'm so glad you said it

35:29

20 times before I had to say it. Now

35:31

watch me be pronouncing it wrong. That's what

35:33

I've always thought. We'll get an

35:35

email. We'll get more than one email.

35:38

God knows. We got a lot this last week.

35:41

So following shot in Florida, there's

35:43

also the issue of social comparison,

35:46

sort of this like, at least

35:48

I'm not them mentality. Another

35:51

reason we enjoy seeing rich people

35:53

suffer is because of the social

35:55

comparison theory. Basically, the idea that

35:57

we determine our own worth by

35:59

comparing ourselves to others. So

36:01

research from the Journal of Applied

36:03

Social Psychology explains that these comparisons go

36:06

two ways. The first is

36:08

upward comparisons. So when we compare ourselves

36:10

to people who are better off, it

36:13

can be motivating. or it can

36:15

be depressing. Hence the

36:17

massive increase in depression and

36:19

isolation that emerges from hours

36:22

of scrolling on Instagram and

36:24

other social media platforms or

36:26

just existing in a world where

36:28

the wealth disparity is so huge,

36:30

right? Then there's also

36:33

downward comparisons. So this is comparing

36:35

ourselves to people who are worse

36:37

off, makes us feel better

36:39

about our own situation. I think I

36:41

was even told that growing

36:43

up as a way of coping of like,

36:45

someone always has it worse. It's like, okay,

36:47

I guess that's what I'll hang on to

36:50

right now. At least I'm not dying

36:52

in a gutter. Right. But then

36:55

again, that's also, I think you're

36:57

talking about something that's really important

36:59

that it's related to Protestant work ethic

37:01

and a lot of sort of some of

37:03

the, even the founders of our country were

37:05

deists, although a lot of people would like

37:07

to frame them as Christians. that

37:10

was a completely different dynamic. But

37:12

in a lot of sort of post

37:14

-Protestant thinking and

37:17

ideology about wealth

37:19

and poverty is that

37:22

you are encouraged to

37:24

minimize or negate your

37:26

own feelings. by

37:28

comparing yourself to other people instead of

37:30

like staying in the moment rather than

37:33

compare yourself to somebody that's worse off

37:35

or feel bad about somebody that's doing

37:37

much better. It's better to, you know,

37:39

be in the center in this mindful

37:41

present state of this is really tough.

37:44

What can I find that is going right?

37:46

What can I be grateful for? And how

37:48

can I keep moving forward? There we go.

37:51

So there's like sort of the mental health

37:53

perspective, right? Yeah, I'm sure you

37:55

and I say that to people a million

37:57

times in therapy, right? It's like focusing on

38:00

what you're grateful for today. But

38:02

yeah, I mean, social comparison theory,

38:05

you know, kind of plays into

38:07

this notion of when we see

38:09

a billionaire lose their fortune, it

38:11

creates a weird kind of mixed

38:13

comparison. They might still be richer

38:15

overall. But for that

38:18

moment, we feel like we're actually in

38:20

a better position than they are. And

38:22

watching them fall reminds us that money

38:24

doesn't protect people from sometimes just plain

38:27

bad luck, which in a strange way,

38:29

we then end up finding kind of

38:31

comforting. Finally, and

38:33

a clear, huge factor in

38:35

the current narrative, we have

38:38

the anti capitalist zeitgeist. So

38:40

a lot of this mindset isn't just

38:42

about individual billionaires, it's about frustration with

38:45

the system itself and the system clearly

38:47

is broken. In a

38:49

2023 study on attitudes towards capitalism found

38:51

that in 34 countries, most people were

38:54

skeptical of capitalism and believed it only

38:56

benefits the rich. While wealth inequality keeps

38:58

growing, the average person feels more and

39:00

more stuck in a system that favors

39:03

the ultra wealthy. And they're not wrong,

39:05

by the way. So seeing

39:07

rich people suffer, whether in movies,

39:09

news headlines or social media jokes,

39:11

it offers an emotional release. You

39:14

know, like you pointed out in me,

39:16

it was relief, relief release, right? The

39:19

article suggests that this collective frustration plays

39:21

a huge role in why people enjoy

39:23

watching wealthy struggle. It's not

39:25

just about laughing at billionaires. It's wanting

39:28

to see fairness in a world that

39:30

often seems very, very unfair. So

39:36

we also wanted to look at, you

39:38

know, we need to be fair here

39:40

a bit. What emotional issues do wealthy

39:42

people struggle with? It's our little segment

39:44

on building empathy today, right? So

39:48

we have an article from the New York

39:50

Post entitled, Oh, no, the

39:52

rich are sad. New Yorkers couldn't

39:54

care less. This is just

39:57

full. It's such a good article title, right? Right.

39:59

It's like the snark title episode,

40:02

which is perfect. Are you

40:04

watching Loki or did you watch the Loki show? My

40:06

hubby watched it. So I saw bits and pieces.

40:09

So Loki now becomes an antihero in

40:12

the Marvel series, because of course, Hiddleston

40:14

is just like an unbelievably charming actor. And like,

40:17

I'm sure they had no idea this was going

40:19

to be so popular. But

40:21

he basically, by virtue of the

40:23

way the story is written, Loki

40:25

is kind of sucked off into

40:27

another timeline and his powers are

40:29

reduced. And he basically has to

40:32

take a desk job. And

40:34

he's interviewing. So here's a demigod or a

40:36

god. He's a, because I'm such

40:38

a nerd, I know he's only half Asgardian

40:41

and the other half is Frost Giant, but

40:43

that's beside point. Jesus, whatever the fuck that

40:45

is. I know, right? So he's interviewing someone

40:47

that's going something, going through something really terrible.

40:50

And the meme that has gotten passed

40:52

around, he's like, oh, that's so terrible.

40:55

Anyway. Yeah. Yep.

40:58

There you go. I see that

41:00

in my head. I'm supposed to

41:02

show some empathy for someone who

41:04

is way far from rock bottom.

41:06

Oh, that sounds really awful. Anyway.

41:09

Anyway, moving on. So

41:13

this article was written by author

41:15

Catherine Dunne -Levy and she interviewed

41:17

therapists of the rich who assert

41:19

that being unburdened by the challenges

41:22

of finances comes with its own

41:24

set of problems. And

41:26

New Yorkers, as expected, have

41:28

zero sympathy for any of it. More

41:31

money, more problems, they don't care. So

41:34

Don Levy explores the struggles of

41:36

the ultra -wealthy where therapists confirm

41:38

that, yes, even billionaires

41:41

feel empty inside. So

41:43

she's not wrong. I mean, we're going to

41:45

go into a little more and more depth of what

41:47

was found. But I do want to provide a couple

41:50

of points of context that I think are very important.

41:52

In my clinical private practice, I

41:55

have worked with extremely wealthy individuals,

41:58

people who have, I will say this, they

42:00

are self -made. wealthy people.

42:02

These are people who have really, really struggled to

42:04

make a lot of money. And

42:06

they struggle with meaning and think, you

42:08

know, one of the recurring things is

42:11

I worked so hard to get here

42:13

that I left parts of myself behind.

42:15

How do I pull those back?

42:17

How do I find contentment and happiness

42:20

in moments? And that is

42:22

really to me, really fascinating work. So

42:24

I want to, I'm saying that

42:27

to emphasize the importance of what she's

42:29

writing about. But now on the other

42:31

side, I want to give you

42:33

some context regarding this publication because this

42:35

is, of course, prime New

42:38

York Post material. The

42:40

New York Post is it's barely

42:42

journalism at times. I mean, it

42:45

can do some incredibly interesting investigative

42:47

stuff. However, their spin is always

42:49

pretty grand going on. It's bloody.

42:52

It's it's really fantastic. And this

42:54

wants to grab you by the

42:56

gut with its headlines. And

42:59

of course, you know, comedian

43:01

John Mulaney, wildly talented, but

43:04

problematic guy. I'm happy that

43:06

you're on top of your

43:08

challenges. I wish

43:10

you the best. But he pointed out in

43:12

one of his monologues that the post delivers

43:14

every story with the same level of urgency,

43:17

whether it's about a murder or a sandwich.

43:19

And that is absolutely true. If you're not

43:21

familiar with the post, go to

43:23

the website and look at some of the

43:25

stuff that they write about and the titles

43:27

that they generate. It's very funny. Yeah,

43:30

eye -catching. Love them. It makes sense. It

43:32

grabs you, right? Yeah.

43:34

So naturally, this

43:36

piece breaks the earth -shattering news that

43:39

rich people have problems to. But

43:41

in all seriousness, as clinicians, we both

43:44

know that while money makes things a

43:46

lot easier, quality of

43:48

life, access to freedoms, including time,

43:51

time that allows us to develop

43:53

quality relationships. Being ultra

43:56

-rich creates its own bubble that

43:58

not only creates emotional challenges in

44:00

the individual's inner experience, but

44:02

it also distances them from

44:04

connection with the world at

44:07

large. So Dr. Carol

44:09

Lieberman, a Beverly Hills psychiatrist interviewed

44:11

for the piece, asserted

44:13

to the post that wealthy folks

44:15

often feel lonely, paranoid,

44:18

and purposeless, which often leads them

44:20

to manufacture drama in their own

44:23

lives. She stated, quote, people

44:25

think if I had all that money, I

44:27

wouldn't have a care in the world. And,

44:29

quote, turns out she

44:32

finds that money can't fix every

44:34

problem, though it can buy a

44:36

Rolex to make you feel better

44:38

for a few hours. Oh, my

44:40

God. So are you familiar with rich kids

44:42

of Instagram? No, I am not.

44:46

Just these unbelievably,

44:49

like wildly, it's not even influencers. It

44:51

started probably pre COVID. I remember that

44:53

was the first time I saw it.

44:55

And it may not, hopefully it's kind

44:58

of flashed away as rapidly as it

45:00

shot up, but it was kids of

45:02

the uber, uber wealthy living

45:05

these like kind of

45:07

unbelievable fairy tale lives, like, you know,

45:09

two months on a yacht, you

45:11

know, just. But making jokes about

45:13

their wealth, like having their arm out with

45:16

like six Rolexes, each one of them like,

45:18

you know, a $75 ,000 or more Rolex.

45:20

One of them going so far as to

45:23

say this table is a little wobbly. And

45:25

so he uses his iPad under

45:28

it to level it out,

45:30

like just sort of conspicuous

45:32

and in your face. That's

45:35

gross. Jokey. It is like that's it.

45:37

That's exactly my reaction is it's gross.

45:39

And of course they got. trolled a

45:41

great deal in a lot of outrageous

45:43

responses, which only fueled it more. I

45:46

would say it's primarily male posters

45:48

than it is female posters, but

45:50

still pretty egregious. It

45:52

is important to see how this plays

45:55

out in legitimate means, though, with both

45:57

Lieberman and Don Levy's research and their

45:59

experience working with these individuals because

46:02

CNBC previously reported that the

46:04

1 % struggle to maintain

46:06

authentic relationships because friendships and

46:08

even marriages often revolve

46:10

about what they can provide. Basically, when

46:12

you have a yacht, you can

46:14

never be sure if people like you

46:16

for you or for the free boat

46:18

rides, right? According to Lieberman, rich people

46:20

aren't keeping up with the Joneses, they're

46:23

keeping up with the Kardashians, constantly competing

46:25

with each other over status symbols. And

46:27

that competition, it only makes

46:29

them lonelier. The higher the

46:31

level of competition, the

46:34

higher level of loneliness. So

46:37

earlier, I also mentioned the

46:39

value of free time and

46:41

free time is gold to

46:43

struggling individuals who work 60 to

46:46

80 hours a week and have

46:48

to try and push through exhaustion

46:50

to care for families, kids, friends

46:52

and self but ironically too much

46:54

free time when you don't have

46:57

to work to survive provides ample

47:00

fruitful ground

47:02

for meaninglessness.

47:04

So what are the rich do? They

47:07

get into mischief. According to Lieberman,

47:09

this can mean anything from gossip

47:11

to affairs to straight up white

47:13

collar crime. When your biggest stressor

47:15

is figuring out whether to vacation

47:18

in Aspen or the Amalfi Coast,

47:20

you might start making bad decisions

47:23

just to feel something. Yeah,

47:26

so Dr. Scott, just take a

47:28

breath because after talking about. these

47:30

problems, you might have a challenge

47:32

with the next bit. I'm going to

47:34

prepare myself. I'm going to do a

47:36

deep deep cleansing breath. Let

47:38

it go. Let it go. Let it go. Let

47:40

it go. Let it go. There

47:43

you go. All right. I'm ready. So

47:45

if there's anyone we should

47:47

feel bad for Lieberman says.

47:50

It's the kids of the ultra rich. Damn

47:52

it. And here you were bringing up

47:54

rich kids of Instagram. So

47:57

apparently wealthy parents are too

47:59

busy hoarding money or shopping or

48:01

whatever to raise their own children. So

48:04

kids are left with nannies instead of

48:06

affection. Wow, this kind

48:08

of like dovetails with our

48:10

attachment disorder episodes, right? There

48:13

you go. Think about that. But this in

48:15

turn leads to an emptiness

48:17

that many try to fill

48:19

with things like substance use,

48:21

reckless spending, risky behavior, and

48:24

we see that all the

48:26

time, right? So Lieberman paints

48:28

a picture of little richie

48:31

riches with unlimited cash, but

48:33

no emotional support, which then

48:35

makes them more likely to

48:37

spiral. So you

48:40

know, what you're talking about of like, hey,

48:42

let me just like make a Instagram reel

48:44

of my wrist with seven Rolexes on it.

48:47

What are they doing with their day? They're

48:49

not even the adults that are, you know,

48:51

having to think about making money every single

48:53

day. So this ties in

48:56

with our Afluenza as well, right? Yeah.

48:58

I mean, we could certainly go back to

49:00

that and probably pull. some of

49:03

the psychology from that episode. But when

49:05

we look back at what Lieberman says

49:07

and other experts, the bottom line is

49:09

they're saying, okay, money doesn't

49:12

solve everything. And I think that's really

49:14

hard for people to understand because we

49:16

feel like it would solve so much,

49:18

right? If we were to be at

49:20

the level and the status of some

49:22

of those folks, the experts say that

49:25

having money solves financial problems. Yes. but

49:28

it creates a lot of emotional

49:30

ones. The wealthy struggle

49:32

with, again, this isolation and paranoia

49:34

and just finding sometimes a reason

49:36

to get out of bed in

49:38

the morning while the rest of

49:40

us are just trying to afford

49:43

rent and our mortgages. So

49:46

we're going to just talk a little

49:48

bit more about what some of their therapists say.

49:50

So therapist Clay Cockrell grew up

49:52

solidly middle class in Kentucky, and

49:55

he found himself the go -to

49:57

therapist for a very tight knit

49:59

and very wealthy circle of referrals to

50:01

his practice, which for those of you

50:04

that don't know this, that can really

50:06

happen very rapidly when you're starting in

50:08

private practice. Yes, we have

50:10

to advertise, we have to have

50:12

either websites or we list ourselves

50:15

on psychology today. But

50:17

what a lot of people don't

50:19

understand is that if you hook

50:21

into one person that really connects

50:24

with you as a clinician, they

50:26

will refer a lot of people to

50:28

you. And it can be explode.

50:30

It can be so much that you have

50:32

to like not take referrals anymore because your

50:34

practice fills up so quickly. So

50:37

in this instance, this seems to

50:39

have happened for cockerel. So

50:41

his very tight, wealthy circle of

50:43

referrals. was literally a selection of

50:46

the 1%. And like Lieberman, he

50:48

insists that wealth comes with real

50:50

emotional baggage, deep isolation,

50:52

mistrust, and a total

50:54

lack of purpose. And

50:56

he can also admit that it can

50:59

be difficult to watch billionaires struggle emotionally,

51:01

while the rest of us are worrying

51:03

about rent. And according to Cockrell, being

51:05

obscenely wealthy comes with a paranoia problem.

51:07

His clients echo Lieberman's early statements that

51:10

clients constantly worry Does this

51:12

person actually like me or do they just want my

51:14

money? Am I being manipulated? Who can I actually trust?

51:17

This is exactly like the dialogue

51:19

from the season of White Lotus.

51:22

Do I have to worry that they want something

51:24

from me or they actually like my friend? This

51:26

is so funny. The creator of

51:28

White Lotus is actually riffing on this

51:31

in every iteration. I mean, this was

51:33

one was absolutely part of that. And

51:36

I think is a great example of

51:38

that relief and that shot in Freud.

51:40

That is what light lotus is all

51:42

about, right? Yeah. Yeah. So

51:44

having these constant questions leads to

51:47

isolation and isolation makes it hard

51:49

to form real relationships. You

51:51

don't have real relationships, authentic,

51:53

fulfilling relationships. That leads

51:56

to boredom that is really

51:58

crippling. Cockerel goes on

52:00

to give the following scenario. Once

52:03

you've made or inherited enough

52:05

money to never work again,

52:07

what's left? He believes that

52:09

it leaves many billionaires feeling

52:11

completely directionlessness and searching for

52:13

their next thrill through reckless

52:15

behavior, substances or anything that

52:17

can break the monotony of

52:19

having too much. And despite

52:21

money being the foundation of their entire

52:23

lives, wealthy people don't like to talk about

52:26

it. Cockrell says that his clients would rather discuss

52:28

their sex lives or drug habits more than their

52:30

bank accounts. Money is treated

52:32

as taboo, secret and even shameful.

52:34

And that secrecy, that only

52:36

makes everything worse. for sure. And

52:38

this is where we really like that he

52:40

sort of takes this LA not so confidential

52:43

approach by using media as an example. And

52:45

in this case, this really

52:47

well produced media example, which he

52:49

calls the succession effect, which we've

52:51

already talked about succession a little

52:53

bit. Because if you've watched it,

52:55

you've already seen the emotional disaster

52:57

zone that is the Roy family.

52:59

According to Cochral, this dynamic is

53:01

Very real many billionaires spoiled their

53:04

kids rotten so they never have

53:06

to struggle the way their parents

53:08

did which sounds nice

53:10

on the surface except

53:12

What happens when you face

53:14

no hardship? You don't

53:17

develop resilience when you

53:19

never have to learn

53:21

about money you become

53:23

financially incompetent and when you

53:25

only grow up around other wealthy kids There's

53:28

this startling lack of empathy.

53:31

So there's all of these problems that

53:33

seem to be solved, but all of

53:35

these problems and life lessons and ways

53:37

to move through the world that get

53:39

created. Children of the

53:41

uber wealthy attend elite

53:43

schools, socialize with only

53:45

their own kind, and

53:47

they grow up in a world completely

53:49

detached from reality. By adulthood,

53:52

often they're really unprepared to manage

53:54

their wealth, much less take on

53:56

responsibility. And Cockrell has

53:59

heard countless trust from babies

54:01

say, we never talked about

54:03

money. I don't know how

54:05

much there is. I have no idea

54:07

what I'm supposed to do with it.

54:10

And you can imagine how that then

54:12

plays out, especially if that bubble gets

54:14

burst. some point, right?

54:16

For them, they're completely unequipped.

54:19

I think about a really

54:21

great example that I was

54:23

referring to before, which is the

54:25

first season of White Lotus where

54:27

Alexandra Dottio, her character to me

54:29

is so interesting and has

54:32

such a tragic end. No, she doesn't

54:34

die, but she makes a decision that

54:37

like to me was like a complete

54:39

capitulation to this system. But she's a

54:41

journalist or an up and coming journalist.

54:44

And she is on her

54:46

honeymoon on her honeymoon and

54:48

she's married to the most

54:51

annoying dude, bro, entitled guy.

54:53

You just like go, how

54:55

did you end up together? Like, how did

54:58

you end up together? And there's

55:00

a couple of scenes where

55:02

she goes to Connie Britton

55:04

and to say, I

55:06

just admire you so much. And Connie

55:09

Britton goes, oh, when you wrote that

55:11

article about me, about how terrible I

55:13

am. Well, no, I was making this.

55:15

But so there's this sort of no,

55:17

I was writing for the New York Post.

55:19

No, it had to be fantastic. But

55:23

the idea that like, OK,

55:25

here you are, journalism is

55:27

supposed to have this level

55:29

of ethics and morals about what you're doing.

55:31

You are reporting what is going on and

55:33

you're being truthful and you're reporting. And so

55:36

she gets pushed back from someone who's part

55:38

of the elite that she has just now

55:40

married into. And then you have this. really,

55:43

really fascinating interaction with

55:45

another great actress, Molly

55:48

Shannon, coming in as her mother

55:50

-in -law, who's like, and she's

55:52

just so bubbly and energetic and

55:54

you can't help but love her. But

55:56

everything that's coming out of her mouth

55:59

is completely diminishing what Alexandra

56:01

is trying to say. She's like,

56:03

why would you want to work?

56:06

I mean, you know, you could be on boards, you

56:08

could be on the board of directors for this, you

56:10

can do just like, sort of you

56:12

can come and play the role of

56:15

someone who gives a shit rather than

56:17

actually being someone who gives a shit.

56:19

But that's all that character knows. That's

56:21

all Molly Shannon knows. And she's like,

56:23

yeah, why would you possibly want to

56:25

do it? So again, I have not

56:27

seen season two or season three, because

56:29

I'm still emotionally processing everything that went

56:32

down. Oh, man, get

56:34

on it. I know, I know about

56:36

it. But there is a really interesting

56:39

sort of there's a not a parable

56:41

but a saying about this and it

56:43

goes that basically the rich inherit fortunes

56:45

but have no clue how to handle

56:48

them which led to this saying shirt

56:50

sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations.

56:53

That's why this exists and what they're saying

56:55

without financial education family empires crumble. I wasn't

56:57

familiar with this saying so I had to

56:59

look it up and it's defined in the

57:01

following manner which I thought was great. The

57:04

first generation works very hard often

57:07

starting from humble beginnings, so they're in

57:09

shirt sleeves to build wealth. The

57:11

second generation grows up with the financial security,

57:14

and while they may still work, they

57:16

don't have struggles like their parents

57:19

did. And then the third generation,

57:21

having never experienced hardship or financial

57:23

discipline, squanders the wealth. and

57:25

ends up back where the family started

57:27

in shirt sleeves working just to get

57:29

by. Now, that's not saying

57:31

that like complete family empires fall,

57:33

but it's about that individual falling.

57:35

And you know, I have done

57:37

clinical work with that third generation

57:39

with the grandparents going, we

57:42

worked our asses off. And this is what we

57:44

did. I mean, this is what the result is,

57:46

this makes no sense to me. You know,

57:48

it's just like a never ending cycle in

57:51

humanity, I think. So let's look

57:53

at some very recent case studies of

57:55

bad things happening to wealthy people and

57:57

then the reactions of the public afterwards.

58:00

Both of these happened in the

58:02

TikTok era, which is really its

58:05

own study and human behavior. It's

58:08

so true. Yeah. I mean, it's

58:10

its own thing, but dovetails really nicely

58:12

into our topic today. Yeah.

58:14

And this is another trigger warning. This

58:16

is a, like we said earlier, this

58:19

is for anybody with claustrophobia, this could

58:21

be really triggering, but. We're

58:23

going to talk a little bit about the Ocean Gate disaster. So

58:26

on June 18, 2023, during a

58:29

deep -sea expedition to the wreck

58:31

of the Titanic in the North

58:33

Atlantic Ocean, a submersible operated by

58:36

Ocean Gate Expeditions lost contact with

58:38

its support vessel approximately one hour

58:41

and 45 minutes into its descent.

58:43

The Titan submersible was a small

58:45

carbon fiber titanium sub designed for

58:48

deep sea exploration. This

58:50

was essentially a tourist expedition

58:52

to view the Titanic wreck

58:55

located 12 ,500 feet below

58:57

sea level. Now that

58:59

paragraph that I just read is

59:01

a little bit inaccurate

59:04

because what comes up when

59:06

you research this in the description is that

59:08

on the surface level, unless you go a

59:10

few pages deeper into a search, is

59:13

that they do describe this small

59:15

carbon fiber and titanium sub designed

59:17

for deep sea exploration. What

59:20

happened in the aftermath of this

59:22

horrific event was many experts came

59:25

forward saying, no, it absolutely was

59:27

not designed to do what it was doing.

59:30

We told the head of

59:32

this company over and over again, and he

59:34

denied it, denied it, denied it. It hadn't

59:36

been a problem before, so it's not going

59:38

to be a problem in the future, which

59:40

is problematic thinking. But back to the story,

59:42

five people were aboard the submersible. Stockton

59:45

Rush, the CEO of Oceangate. Could

59:47

you have more of a rich person

59:49

sounding name than Stockton Rush? Hamish

59:52

Harding, a British billionaire and adventurer.

59:55

Shazada and Suleiman Dawood, a Pakistani

59:57

-British businessman and his son. and

1:00:00

Paul -Henry Nargile, a

1:00:02

French Titanic expert. So

1:00:05

as we mentioned after launch from the

1:00:07

support ship, contact was lost after one

1:00:09

hour and 45 minutes of their descent.

1:00:12

And from there, if you'll remember, that

1:00:14

information got out to media outlets and

1:00:16

it was a very long waiting game.

1:00:19

I mean, I... Remember as the

1:00:21

hours went by, experts were sharing

1:00:23

the details of perhaps what the

1:00:25

passengers would be experiencing if they

1:00:27

were still in the sub, still

1:00:29

alive. It was just horrific. And

1:00:32

then hours turned into days and we

1:00:34

all knew what that meant. You know,

1:00:36

there was very little chance that there

1:00:38

was anyone that survived, although we really

1:00:40

had no idea what had happened. A

1:00:43

large -scale search and rescue operation

1:00:45

was launched by the U .S.

1:00:47

and Canadian coast guards using everything

1:00:49

they had, aircraft, ships, and deep

1:00:51

sea sonar equipment. On June

1:00:54

22nd, 2023, debris

1:00:56

from the Titan was found near

1:00:58

the Titanic wreck, confirming that the

1:01:01

sub had suffered a catastrophic implosion,

1:01:03

instantly killing all five passengers. Experts

1:01:06

believe the pressure hull failed, likely

1:01:08

due to material fatigue or design

1:01:10

flaws, the sub to collapse

1:01:12

inward in just milliseconds. And

1:01:15

honestly, at that point, That was

1:01:17

the quickest death we really could

1:01:19

have hoped for if these doomed

1:01:21

individuals because the idea of them

1:01:23

running out of oxygen over hours

1:01:26

was just so so hard to

1:01:28

Understand and honestly to hear when

1:01:30

these experts would come on and

1:01:32

be like well, they're still alive

1:01:34

They're experiencing this it was awful

1:01:36

Oceangate as you mentioned face very

1:01:39

heavy criticism for ignoring safety warnings

1:01:41

from industry experts the company's use

1:01:43

of experimental carbon fiber

1:01:45

materials was questioned as deep

1:01:47

sea subs typically use steel

1:01:50

or titanium and ocean gate

1:01:52

ceased operations and the disaster

1:01:54

raised concerns over these unregulated

1:01:57

deep sea tourism trips. According

1:01:59

to multiple reports, each passenger on

1:02:01

the Ocean Gate Expedition to the

1:02:04

Titanic, REC paid

1:02:06

$250 ,000 each to

1:02:08

go on this expedition.

1:02:11

At the time, Dr. Scott, what

1:02:13

kind of social media content around

1:02:15

this did you consume or were

1:02:17

you seeing? Well, certainly, right when

1:02:19

it was happening, there was a lot

1:02:21

of speculation. It didn't really go into

1:02:23

full bore about the audacity. of

1:02:26

it. I think that had not really kicked in.

1:02:28

There was a little bit going on, but mainly

1:02:30

it was the focus, like you were saying, is

1:02:32

how could they have survived. Believe

1:02:34

me, I am no deep sea

1:02:36

expert at all in any sense.

1:02:39

But even I know about

1:02:41

from probably science fiction and my

1:02:44

husband working on the abyss and

1:02:46

a bunch of stuff like this

1:02:48

is like, no, like the incredible

1:02:50

pressures at depths like that. You

1:02:52

don't die slowly. You are dead.

1:02:55

Boom, your yeah, lapses

1:02:57

and collapses upon itself

1:02:59

like like you are stepping

1:03:01

on a soda can and just

1:03:03

crushing it. That's immediately fast. So

1:03:05

I was like, no, they're dead.

1:03:07

There's absolutely no way they're sitting

1:03:09

there floating in the deep cold of the

1:03:12

sea with no oxygen. It was like, no, this

1:03:14

is over. You know, I think, yeah,

1:03:16

that that definitely was kind of mainstream media.

1:03:19

Definitely in the TikTok realm.

1:03:21

people were already like, Oh,

1:03:23

poor billionaires, you know, probably,

1:03:27

you know, not thinking about this, this

1:03:29

doesn't seem super safe. And they paid

1:03:31

what to get on there. And it

1:03:33

very quickly turned into an rich situation.

1:03:36

Yeah. And to be very,

1:03:38

very honest here, some

1:03:40

people were just straight

1:03:43

up hilarious. And some of

1:03:45

the things that they were putting together

1:03:47

were incredibly creative. It's how

1:03:50

it felt in the moment. I did

1:03:52

have the forethought and the self -awareness to

1:03:54

be like, what am I enjoying right now? Right?

1:03:56

Yeah. No, no, no. I'm right there with you.

1:03:58

I'm right there with you. And I think that that's

1:04:00

what this entire, what we've been leading up to. Totally

1:04:03

entire episode is that we can

1:04:05

all get sucked into it. And

1:04:07

now look, okay. So what you and

1:04:10

I are talking about is that we got

1:04:12

sucked into the riffs. And there are some

1:04:14

brilliantly funny people out there. Is there a

1:04:16

whiff of cruelty there? I

1:04:18

don't know. I honestly

1:04:20

don't know if that's being

1:04:22

cruel because I think it was

1:04:24

all pretty stupid. It's still my

1:04:26

take on it today. But that comes

1:04:28

from my upbringing and my own finances.

1:04:31

Sure. Why would you spend

1:04:33

$250 ,000 on

1:04:36

this? I just like to go,

1:04:38

is your life so rarefied? that

1:04:40

this is an experience you're going to do. I feel

1:04:43

the same way about paying a million dollars to go

1:04:45

into space. Yeah, yeah. But

1:04:47

I get it. Like that's my personal thing.

1:04:49

And I think that the reason I'm sharing

1:04:51

that is because I think that's what drove

1:04:54

a lot of this is like that observation

1:04:56

of like, you people are so detached from

1:04:58

the reality of what the rest of

1:05:00

us are experiencing. Now, all of

1:05:02

that being said, I felt really bad for the kid. Everyone,

1:05:05

I think everyone. Yeah, like that's

1:05:07

that's the one. That's the biggest one for

1:05:09

me is the kid that was probably roped

1:05:11

along to be in it. Yeah.

1:05:15

I mean, just I'm going to take a little breath to

1:05:17

take a moment to breathe and see if there's anything else

1:05:19

I want to add about that. Yeah. But

1:05:22

I will agree with you. There was

1:05:24

some brilliantly funny stuff. And, you know,

1:05:26

maybe that's something that we should really

1:05:28

all aspire to is like, OK, I'm

1:05:31

having an emotional reaction. I'm not anxious.

1:05:33

I'm not angry. I'm kind of laughing.

1:05:36

Let me sit in the mindfulness of this

1:05:38

emotion and think about why I'm feeling this

1:05:40

way. I think that can be helpful in

1:05:42

times like this. So

1:05:44

LA Times writer Jessica Gelt and she's

1:05:47

an opinion writer. I want to make

1:05:49

sure that I highlight that because she

1:05:51

gets a little school marmy finger wagging

1:05:53

in this article. That's my opinion.

1:05:55

But she asserted that the tragedy

1:05:58

unleashed social media's worst impulses. with

1:06:00

creators mocking the victims, ridiculing the

1:06:02

video game controller used to steer

1:06:04

the sub and making crude jokes

1:06:06

about their final moments. And while

1:06:08

I appreciate the direction and the

1:06:10

tone of her writing regarding the

1:06:12

reactions, I think that

1:06:14

that article allows a few things

1:06:16

to get lost, including points like

1:06:19

the very badly, badly constructed

1:06:21

vessel that was controlled by a

1:06:23

gamer set. Like that is a problem. Why

1:06:25

are you making fun of these things? Well,

1:06:28

they're making fun of these things because they

1:06:30

shouldn't have happened. And you would think that

1:06:32

somebody that's charging $250 ,000 a pop would

1:06:34

be able to do this. Now,

1:06:36

something that she does that I

1:06:38

really appreciate is that she highlights

1:06:40

the comparison about the world was

1:06:42

just being glued to updates about

1:06:44

the submersible, about the Titan, while

1:06:47

750 migrants drowned off the coast

1:06:49

of. Greece just days before with

1:06:51

only 104 people surviving. Yet that

1:06:53

story barely made a ripple in

1:06:56

global media. That to me

1:06:58

is the point that I think

1:07:01

needs to be brought out. The

1:07:03

stark difference in coverage raises serious

1:07:05

questions about whose lives are deemed

1:07:08

worthy of attention, but doesn't

1:07:10

look to median conglomerates like her own

1:07:12

employer and the role that they play

1:07:14

in deciding what gets attention. But

1:07:17

I fully disclose that her piece, like

1:07:19

I said, is commentary. It's

1:07:21

a necessary commentary that points out

1:07:23

wealth inequality has reached new extremes

1:07:25

where the world's 3 ,000 billionaires

1:07:27

hold more wealth than half the

1:07:29

planet. And she goes on

1:07:31

to use the example that it's no

1:07:34

wonder that some social media users are

1:07:36

openly rooting for orcas to attack luxury

1:07:38

yachts. She also points out that

1:07:40

despite the class tensions, one Twitter user

1:07:43

made a valid point. It's possible to

1:07:45

care about both the drowned migrants and

1:07:47

the missing billionaires. Totally agree.

1:07:49

It is possible to do that.

1:07:51

And maybe the challenge for us

1:07:53

and me in these moments is

1:07:55

maintaining that human decency means acknowledging

1:07:57

that all suffering exists, not just

1:08:00

picking and choosing whose lives matter.

1:08:02

So I'm going to be authentic and saying

1:08:04

that I had a reaction to this. op

1:08:07

ed. I thought it was well written. I

1:08:09

think that she ends up making some really

1:08:11

good points. But you know, we

1:08:13

should not have judgment, but

1:08:15

you have to understand the

1:08:17

context of the comparisons. That's

1:08:20

where I'm leading. But

1:08:22

she also ends her piece with a

1:08:24

very sobering question. If a camera inside

1:08:26

the titan showed the terror in the

1:08:28

passengers eyes, would people still

1:08:30

be making jokes? Yes, they would.

1:08:33

I don't think those people making

1:08:35

those jokes of that slice would

1:08:37

be people that we would be

1:08:39

necessarily interested in their opinion because

1:08:42

then that truly has gone into

1:08:44

sadism and like a level of

1:08:46

cruelty that is beyond. Yeah,

1:08:49

absolutely. Well,

1:08:55

and of course, another situation in

1:08:57

which we see some of the

1:09:00

same phenomenon play out. In

1:09:02

December of 2024, United

1:09:04

Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson was shot

1:09:07

outside of a Manhattan hotel. The

1:09:09

CEO was on his way to an

1:09:11

annual investors meeting for United Healthcare Group.

1:09:14

This assassination was caught on

1:09:16

surveillance footage, and we got

1:09:18

to see firsthand not only

1:09:20

the calculated nature of the

1:09:22

planned murder, but also the last

1:09:25

moments of terror from the

1:09:27

ambushed victim. So here

1:09:29

we do have that reaction from the person

1:09:31

who's suffering. We then started

1:09:33

to get more details of the

1:09:35

attack and then of the wanted

1:09:37

person. We learned that the shell

1:09:40

casings of the rounds shot at

1:09:42

the crime scene had messages seemingly

1:09:44

related to the mangled healthcare system

1:09:46

on them. The words

1:09:48

deny, delay, depose were written upon

1:09:50

them and left at the scene.

1:09:53

This aspect of a

1:09:55

possible motive sparked debates

1:09:57

about the healthcare industry's

1:09:59

practices with many expressing

1:10:01

anger over coverage

1:10:03

denials and profit motives and the like, something

1:10:05

many people can relate to. So that's just

1:10:08

with that little bit of information, which honestly,

1:10:10

I mean, I say little, but it was

1:10:12

a big deal. I think you and I

1:10:14

even talked about it on a shrink wrap

1:10:16

when it was unfolding. That

1:10:19

felt very theatrical, right? So

1:10:21

people glommed on to that and

1:10:23

already started making content. about those

1:10:25

points. Then in this timeline,

1:10:27

we got some still camera shots of

1:10:29

the suspect checking into the New York

1:10:32

hostel using a fake ID before the

1:10:34

incident. So even before

1:10:36

the suspect was identified, those

1:10:38

pictures of the suspect's smile that

1:10:40

they flashed to the hostel worker

1:10:42

while checking in, along now with

1:10:45

the act itself, I mean, the

1:10:48

media and internet just like loved

1:10:51

that. We're not even, we're not even

1:10:53

like... of days into this, right? Things

1:10:56

felt really different how

1:10:58

he was being seen, not just as a

1:11:00

suspect, but as a symbol. I

1:11:02

mean, for many people, he started

1:11:04

to represent something bigger than himself,

1:11:06

like this avatar of frustration, a

1:11:10

figure that really resonated with kind

1:11:12

of anyone who's ever struggled under

1:11:14

the weight of medical debt. And

1:11:16

people couldn't help themselves by saying

1:11:18

that he should go free or they hope he

1:11:20

gets away or nobody should turn him in. with

1:11:23

that brilliant smile. And remember, we didn't

1:11:25

even know if this was a man or a woman at

1:11:27

first. So there was

1:11:30

all, you know, I think the unanswered

1:11:32

questions left a lot of room for

1:11:34

people to sort of start making up

1:11:36

their own lore behind these emotionally motivating

1:11:39

factors. But eventually, Luigi

1:11:41

Maggioni was arrested days

1:11:43

later in Pennsylvania, carrying

1:11:46

a 3D printed firearm and a

1:11:48

manifesto criticizing the US healthcare system.

1:11:50

We had our guy at this

1:11:53

point. The extradition to

1:11:55

New York was like something out

1:11:57

of a movie. This is kind of

1:11:59

the next big pivotal moment after we learned

1:12:02

who he was. They had politicians

1:12:04

wanting to get in on this perp walk

1:12:07

moment. They landed the helicopter at the end

1:12:09

of a pier and had him surrounded by

1:12:11

what looked like the cast of the SWAT

1:12:13

television show as he kind of limped along

1:12:15

shackled in his chains in this bright orange

1:12:18

jumpsuit and everyone else is wearing black. I

1:12:20

mean if I'm ever arrested like this is

1:12:22

the shot that I want please if someone

1:12:25

would give me this much attention about what

1:12:27

I have done this is it the script

1:12:29

is written but it just Like

1:12:31

when we talk about the

1:12:33

visual nature of the stuff that

1:12:35

we consume, they were literally just feeding

1:12:38

it to us at this point. So

1:12:40

Magione has pleaded not guilty to

1:12:42

terror and murder charges in New

1:12:44

York, and he is currently awaiting

1:12:46

trial. But it's

1:12:48

so interesting because this has little bits

1:12:50

and pieces that I think feel very

1:12:53

similar to other cases, feel also different,

1:12:55

feels like a hybrid between a couple

1:12:57

of things going on here. So.

1:13:00

social media reactions to

1:13:02

Luigi have been pretty

1:13:04

divided and some

1:13:07

commenters are condemning him

1:13:09

as a violent criminal

1:13:11

and others have not surprisingly

1:13:14

praised him as a folk hero

1:13:16

because there are thousands of

1:13:18

people that are expressing frustration

1:13:20

at the American healthcare industry

1:13:22

and I say industry specifically

1:13:24

and they have seen his

1:13:27

actions as a form of

1:13:29

rebellion. against high insurance

1:13:31

costs and even access to mental

1:13:33

health care, right? So

1:13:35

this has led to a really

1:13:38

high amount of online discussion and

1:13:40

then this explosive mean culture surrounding

1:13:42

the case. It looks like

1:13:44

that to many people this was like a Robin Hood

1:13:47

moment, although a violent version

1:13:49

with Luigi stealing the life of

1:13:51

a rich man. in the

1:13:53

name of the little guy. So what are some

1:13:55

of the factors that play into his infamy? Look,

1:13:58

Mangione is particularly camera friendly.

1:14:00

And I thought about how I

1:14:03

was going to say that because

1:14:05

I didn't want to like, that's

1:14:07

the only commentary I feel saying

1:14:09

he presents really well. And

1:14:12

he has a strong social

1:14:14

media presence prior to the

1:14:16

event. that features many

1:14:18

photos of his shirtless

1:14:20

torso and just an

1:14:23

absolutely captivating and winning

1:14:25

smile. So he looked,

1:14:27

it is the whole, it is the

1:14:29

entire package, the entire package. And he

1:14:31

is regarded by many in his life

1:14:34

as both a thoughtful and gregarious

1:14:36

individual as well as

1:14:38

having some very non

1:14:41

mainstream beliefs about history

1:14:43

and culture. Yeah. So

1:14:45

this is like. you know, you're

1:14:47

good looking sort of regular

1:14:49

guy that took on a

1:14:52

cause and decided to commit

1:14:54

a very serious crime because of that

1:14:56

cause rather than some of what we've

1:14:58

seen in the past when we've talked

1:15:01

about like, honestly, just like the Hiberstaphilia

1:15:03

stuff, you know, this over masculine, criminogenic

1:15:06

guy who murdered a string of his

1:15:08

romantic partners. Like, there's some of the

1:15:11

same things going on, but it's also

1:15:13

very different. Yeah, because

1:15:15

the cause, I

1:15:17

mean, how many people do you know?

1:15:19

Because I know three people off the

1:15:22

top of my head that have read

1:15:24

from beginning to end Ted Kazinsky's manifesto

1:15:26

and come away saying he has a

1:15:29

lot of points. He actually

1:15:31

has some really good points. Yeah.

1:15:33

Right. I know several people have commented

1:15:35

on that for sure. And yet, I

1:15:37

mean, I will say that not

1:15:39

to like completely parse this, but

1:15:41

Kazinsky also took

1:15:43

out people that were that

1:15:45

were tertiary to his cause. Totally. Right.

1:15:47

So I would, I lean when I

1:15:49

look at him, I lean him towards the

1:15:52

guy who killed all his girlfriends. Right.

1:15:54

Let me like more than I do. It's

1:15:56

like, yeah, you know, you have a

1:15:58

cause, you have some good points. There's

1:16:00

a lot of other ways you could have dispelled that

1:16:02

energy. I mean, not like I'm not going to give,

1:16:05

I'm not going to assume that Kaczynski had

1:16:07

the ability to function at that level because

1:16:09

he didn't. The guy had serious, serious mental

1:16:11

issues. Well, it falls in. to

1:16:13

the category of what we covered a

1:16:16

lot of someone with a grievance, right,

1:16:18

that then is trying to right that

1:16:20

wrong, whether that is a school shooting

1:16:22

or a mass casualty event of some

1:16:25

other sort, Oklahoma City bombing. Hence

1:16:27

the reason Magione is facing terror

1:16:29

charges, right? It

1:16:32

wobbles into that category

1:16:34

more so. And then, yes,

1:16:36

he is, as you said, camera friendly.

1:16:39

Right. And all of these

1:16:41

factors have fueled this free

1:16:44

Luigi sentiment in social media

1:16:46

videos, but not just

1:16:48

online. It's billboards and the

1:16:50

roadside media calling him a

1:16:52

hero, droves of supporters rallying

1:16:54

outside the courthouse during his appearances. And

1:16:56

then, like you said, there's this hebristophelic

1:16:59

aspect of the story because of his

1:17:01

good looks. We're going to use that

1:17:03

term loosely because it feels like more.

1:17:06

objectification of him rather than being attracted

1:17:08

to him because he's a criminal. But

1:17:10

there's a small aspect of the Robin

1:17:13

Hood trope that people are finding very

1:17:15

attractive. So endless content

1:17:17

is being made lusting over this

1:17:19

guy from those old photos of

1:17:21

him shirtless to recent courtroom appearances

1:17:24

of him in fashionable sweaters and

1:17:26

loavers and really good grooming. Now

1:17:28

there was also something very interesting.

1:17:30

I don't necessarily fully buy into

1:17:32

this. But let me give people

1:17:35

a context. So defense

1:17:37

attorneys absolutely

1:17:39

can arrange for

1:17:41

their clients to have access to

1:17:44

decent clothing and to improve their

1:17:46

grooming, especially if it's a high

1:17:48

end defender. But I did see

1:17:50

a very interesting piece. So I

1:17:53

don't know if his defense attorneys

1:17:55

were like, get a

1:17:57

good barber in here. that can style

1:17:59

his hair to make him even more camera

1:18:01

friendly, right? But there

1:18:04

was an ex -con, really good

1:18:06

writer who wrote an entire piece. His

1:18:09

opinion piece was that Luigi was

1:18:11

being seen as a hero in

1:18:13

the jail because he came out

1:18:15

with the top line prison haircut.

1:18:18

Like he said, they're treating him like a

1:18:20

hero because they all get it and that

1:18:22

he's probably being treated this way and this

1:18:24

way and this way. But that's hearsay. Like

1:18:27

an interesting take, but there actually

1:18:29

is no confirmation on who did

1:18:32

the grooming of him. I

1:18:34

know for some people they

1:18:36

may think, why are you

1:18:38

two focusing on his grooming?

1:18:40

But that actually is an

1:18:42

important part. It's like the

1:18:44

defense is saying, we're going to go

1:18:46

all in with this. He

1:18:48

is like so camera friendly. He doesn't

1:18:50

have a bad angle, no matter how

1:18:52

he turns his face. Even

1:18:55

when his face is at rest, it's

1:18:57

like looking at a statue, right? We're

1:19:00

going to play this absolutely because we're going

1:19:02

to make him a martyr. I

1:19:04

think that's totally going on, right? Well,

1:19:07

and jury consultation and selection

1:19:09

and courtroom antics is all

1:19:11

falls under the umbrella of

1:19:13

forensic psychology consultation. Yeah,

1:19:16

exactly. But yeah, I mean, from the

1:19:18

social media, like. and especially TikTok,

1:19:20

like the thirst is real with this

1:19:22

one. I mean, but

1:19:24

on top of that, I most

1:19:27

immediately saw like Etsy creators and

1:19:29

other creators making free Luigi merch. I

1:19:31

mean, I can watch this stuff, but like,

1:19:33

I don't want a sweatshirt that has his

1:19:35

face on it saying free. It's just clearly

1:19:38

very poor, poor taste, but

1:19:40

it seems so mainstream with this

1:19:42

case, which is just super. interesting.

1:19:45

Just I think another interesting really

1:19:47

side note of this all in

1:19:49

terms of social media content that

1:19:51

came out in people's reactions, where

1:19:53

they were making videos, not even

1:19:55

mentioning him, but right after this,

1:19:57

this event happened, where families,

1:20:00

parents, you know, people

1:20:02

were getting online talking about their

1:20:05

heartbreaking stories of horrendous treatment

1:20:07

by the managed care system.

1:20:09

It got company. Yeah. And they

1:20:11

didn't even have to say boo

1:20:14

about Luigi, right? It was just,

1:20:16

here's our family story. And those

1:20:18

things really went viral, which good,

1:20:21

we need to hear those sides of it. And

1:20:23

they weren't advocating one way or another. It was

1:20:25

just like, here's a real story that happened to

1:20:27

us. And there was also you

1:20:29

and I made a commitment. to

1:20:32

really try and be more victim focused

1:20:34

as the milieu of true crime content

1:20:36

creation has moved in that direction. And

1:20:38

when we can, we do that. So

1:20:40

Brian Thompson, I do want to focus

1:20:42

on that, but I do also want

1:20:44

to be like a little bit objective

1:20:47

because there are a lot of people

1:20:49

in high positions that have been interviewed

1:20:51

on camera and they're not shying away

1:20:53

from it. They're saying, well, no, it

1:20:55

shouldn't have happened, but I understand why.

1:20:57

Yeah. Right. So there was this sort of

1:21:00

there is, look, if

1:21:03

you have enough money to invest in

1:21:05

the stock market and part of your

1:21:07

portfolio represents that company, then Brian is

1:21:09

going to be your guy, right? Because

1:21:11

he made money by denying care

1:21:13

for people, right? That

1:21:16

is a really difficult concept, not

1:21:18

a difficult concept to think of anybody listening

1:21:21

to this is going to understand that concept.

1:21:23

But that's a difficult place to sit in

1:21:25

to understand that this person with a huge

1:21:27

winning smile on all of his CEO pictures

1:21:30

and LinkedIn and everything, you know, He was

1:21:32

human as well. He was doing the job.

1:21:34

He thought that he was supposed to do

1:21:37

because it's about the shareholders and people like

1:21:39

that in that position. And I'm not justifying

1:21:41

it because I don't agree with it, but

1:21:43

I do understand what the challenge there is.

1:21:46

The challenge is to divorce, cut

1:21:48

off, even to the point of being like the

1:21:50

show severance. You are severing

1:21:52

that part of your identity and

1:21:55

not taking responsibility for

1:21:58

your role in the world or maybe you

1:22:00

see your role in the world is

1:22:02

to make money for your company rather

1:22:04

than to. contribute to the commons, contribute

1:22:06

to the betterment of society. And

1:22:09

then there were also things that finally came

1:22:11

out as like, he wasn't this smiling angel

1:22:13

in a nice little sweater set and winning

1:22:15

smile as well. He wasn't like this completely

1:22:17

innocent guy in other areas of his life.

1:22:19

Did that mean that he deserved to be

1:22:21

shot down in public? No, it doesn't. But

1:22:24

it does add more profundity to this discussion,

1:22:26

I think. Sure. Yeah, nobody is

1:22:28

is all just one thing, of course.

1:22:30

Exactly. So that brings us to our Entertainment

1:22:34

section here. We love

1:22:36

a movie or TV show about

1:22:38

rich people. Think reality TV. Or

1:22:41

I don't know if you know this, Scott, but you know

1:22:43

that every girl's favorite airplane movie is Crazy Rich Asians? I

1:22:46

did not know that. That's a thing. But

1:22:49

we also love watching what happens when bad

1:22:51

things happen to them in really like the

1:22:53

most wild ways that only entertainment can give

1:22:56

us. So we've covered a

1:22:58

lot of tropes in entertainment before this

1:23:00

one that. have aspects, you know, that

1:23:02

are essentially vilification of the rich. And

1:23:05

it's often illustrated metaphorically to provide

1:23:08

fuel and a pathway for an

1:23:10

uprising of the social classes. So

1:23:13

in popular media, there's usually an

1:23:15

added element of the rich characters

1:23:17

undergoing some terrible event ranging from

1:23:20

family turmoil or backstabbing to disasters,

1:23:23

usually death, and all is some

1:23:25

sort of fate or punishment

1:23:27

for being wealthy. So

1:23:30

first up, Did you watch Saltburn? I

1:23:32

didn't watch Saltburn. I like, I still have to see

1:23:34

it. So I actually had to read in spoilers and

1:23:36

I was like, Oh, wow. Okay. Oh man.

1:23:38

Okay. Well, sorry we ruined it

1:23:41

for you. If nobody

1:23:43

watched it or hadn't heard of it,

1:23:45

Saltburn came out in 2023. It's

1:23:48

this psychological thriller directed by Emerald

1:23:50

Fennell. That's such a beautiful name

1:23:52

known for her previous work on

1:23:54

Promising Young Woman. And

1:23:56

the film - That one I did see, that one

1:23:58

is fantastic. I did not see it. And

1:24:01

then I didn't realize that they're

1:24:03

done the same person. I'm like,

1:24:05

I have to go back now.

1:24:07

The film stars Barry Coogan as

1:24:09

Oliver Quick, an outcast student at

1:24:11

Oxford University who becomes infatuated with

1:24:13

his wealthy classmate, Felix. And

1:24:15

I love because the opening scenes are all at Oxford

1:24:17

University on the campus grounds. And I've been there a

1:24:19

couple of times, like one of my favorite cities in

1:24:21

the whole world. And I'm just like, oh, it gave

1:24:24

me all these warm, fuzzy feelings at the beginning. And

1:24:26

then it turns really, really quickly. But

1:24:29

essentially, Felix, the

1:24:32

wealthy classmate, invites Oliver to

1:24:34

spend the summer with him

1:24:36

at his family's very opulent

1:24:38

British. estate called

1:24:41

Saltburn. Of course, it

1:24:43

has a name, right? So Oliver

1:24:45

really ends up becoming entwined in

1:24:47

the lives of the Canton family,

1:24:50

the sister, the elderly,

1:24:52

very wealthy father and

1:24:54

his younger wife in

1:24:56

this complex web of

1:24:58

obsession and deception. And

1:25:01

it has all the good stuff that

1:25:03

we love to see with the

1:25:06

opulent parties and the kids just

1:25:08

behaving badly and just not knowing

1:25:10

where that's going to go. It's

1:25:12

interesting because the critics have noted

1:25:14

the film's thematic parallels to what

1:25:17

we've talked about a lot, the

1:25:19

talented Mr. Ripley with this exploration

1:25:21

of desire and identity within elite

1:25:23

social circles. So like, you know,

1:25:25

if you're looking for something to watch, you just want to

1:25:27

be all in like visually, it's great. And then it's also

1:25:29

very twisted. And you're like, oh, my God, what am I

1:25:31

watching right now? So basically the main

1:25:34

the character Oliver eats this family

1:25:36

from the inside out. I mean,

1:25:38

he really carefully crafts his way

1:25:40

into their lives over this summer

1:25:42

break from Oxford and dismantles them

1:25:44

possibly, you know, killing some

1:25:46

of them or suckers them

1:25:49

into eventually gaining their wealth,

1:25:51

playing the very long game

1:25:53

years down the road. I

1:25:56

really love salt burn. I didn't know what

1:25:58

to expect going into it. And, you

1:26:00

know, some of it was like

1:26:03

shocking. And I just I highly,

1:26:05

highly recommend it with just this

1:26:07

very stylish examination of obsession. class

1:26:10

disparity, sort of the

1:26:13

lengths individuals will go to to

1:26:15

attain acceptance and wealth. So

1:26:17

I think it's a great contemporary psychological

1:26:19

thriller that fits perfectly with what we're

1:26:22

talking about today. So

1:26:24

did you root for him, for

1:26:26

Barry Keegan's character? I did not

1:26:28

because you the way that it's

1:26:31

shot and the subtlety to his

1:26:33

psychopathy is, you know, something that

1:26:35

makes you like your skin crawl.

1:26:37

towards the end. But even like.

1:26:39

But you do judge the rich.

1:26:41

She like it like they do

1:26:44

come up with assholes. Yeah,

1:26:46

you judge the rich and their assholes. But

1:26:48

I think they're it's maybe it's also how

1:26:50

it was sort of crafted to be like

1:26:52

what we're talking about like they don't know

1:26:54

any better. These are kids that have grown

1:26:57

up in this and he's finding their weaknesses.

1:26:59

Right. Like very calculated. So I'd be super

1:27:01

interested to hear your take. I'll have to

1:27:03

watch it. But here's one that I did

1:27:06

watch in love the menu. Oh,

1:27:08

yes. Very dark. comedy thriller

1:27:10

directed by Mark Mylid, starring Anna

1:27:12

Taylor Joy. I love her, Ray

1:27:14

Fiennes, love him, Nicholas Holt. I

1:27:16

mean, just the cast is so

1:27:18

great. Also, all of the people

1:27:20

that have, I mean, I

1:27:22

don't think there are really any minor

1:27:24

roles, but like it is a casting

1:27:26

cavalcade. It's so fantastic. And

1:27:29

it seems like one of those movies where people

1:27:31

were like, I will be in this. I don't

1:27:33

care if I don't have lines. I'm just gonna

1:27:35

be in this, right? So

1:27:37

the film follows this young couple

1:27:39

of Margot who is Anya Taylor

1:27:41

-Joy and Nicholas Holt as Tyler

1:27:43

and they go to an exclusive

1:27:45

island restaurant. By the way,

1:27:47

I would never fucking do that. No,

1:27:50

creepy as hell to me. I would never

1:27:52

ever take a boat where there's just a

1:27:54

restaurant and like the staff lives there. Like

1:27:56

what kind of not going to happen. And

1:28:00

the island restaurant is run by

1:28:02

renowned enigmatic chef Julian Slavic, played

1:28:04

by Ralph Fiennes. And so it's

1:28:06

very, I mean, it gets very

1:28:08

stylistic. you hate some of the

1:28:10

characters immediately. They're such dude bro

1:28:12

assholes. But as the evening unfolds,

1:28:14

the chef presents this elaborate multi

1:28:17

course meal with each of the

1:28:19

dishes just like meticulously crafted with

1:28:21

like layers of deeper meaning, which

1:28:23

is really funny because look, I've

1:28:25

been lucky enough to have some

1:28:27

very expensive meals in my life.

1:28:29

Not it's not a regular basis,

1:28:31

but you know, I've had some

1:28:33

like two big ones in my

1:28:36

life. Yeah. And it is a

1:28:38

big deal to the chef. Like

1:28:40

it is there. It is

1:28:42

the chef mentality is the creativity

1:28:44

and like making the eating experience

1:28:46

art, which is just not something

1:28:48

that I grew up with. That's

1:28:51

like very alien to me, right?

1:28:53

So I'm, but I'm trying, you

1:28:55

know, my experiences were really good.

1:28:57

And it was like, okay, I

1:28:59

got this, but it becomes very,

1:29:01

very clear very quickly that this

1:29:03

particular menu and this particular meal.

1:29:05

the dinner is not just about

1:29:07

the food, it is very meticulously

1:29:09

orchestrated, psychological and physical ordeal for

1:29:11

all of the guests, because all

1:29:13

the guests are elite food critics

1:29:16

or wealthy patrons, celebrities,

1:29:19

and their entourage, and

1:29:21

they quickly realize that they're trapped in

1:29:23

a carefully designed experiences. That is just

1:29:25

getting way out of hand and to

1:29:28

see all of them fall apart. I

1:29:30

don't even want to get if you

1:29:32

haven't seen it, guys, you really, really

1:29:34

have to see it because the look

1:29:36

of horror and anger on people when

1:29:39

they like the confusion, like confusion, like

1:29:41

this one is even in the I'm

1:29:43

not getting anything away because this is

1:29:45

in the previews is like when a

1:29:47

table gets there. Order of

1:29:50

tortillas and the tortillas have printed

1:29:52

on them in edible ink or

1:29:54

it's burned into it like the

1:29:56

financial spreadsheets for all of their

1:29:58

Financial crimes, right? They're like what

1:30:00

the fuck is this? You know

1:30:02

like just that sort of trying

1:30:04

to put it together and I

1:30:06

mean again It's also the acting

1:30:08

is really great, but Anya Taylor

1:30:10

joy plays Margo. She wasn't supposed

1:30:12

to be part of the guest

1:30:15

list She came by accident because

1:30:17

the person that was in her

1:30:19

place wasn't able to go so

1:30:21

her being an outsider disrupts the

1:30:23

whole planned evening and She is

1:30:25

a very tough individual and she

1:30:27

confronts the chef and it becomes

1:30:29

this battle of wills. I mean

1:30:31

it's so Over -the -top crazy

1:30:33

and yet you go well this

1:30:35

could happen probably but like I

1:30:37

mean it's not science fictiony.

1:30:40

It's just like, yeah, like knives

1:30:42

out almost. It's just very, very

1:30:45

well constructed. So it is just

1:30:47

really a great example of privilege

1:30:49

entitlement and the fine dining industry,

1:30:52

which is I enjoy good food,

1:30:54

but I don't want to I

1:30:57

don't want to breathe salmon foam

1:30:59

while I'm, you know, rolling a

1:31:01

desiccated green bean between my fingers,

1:31:04

you know, just weird. things.

1:31:06

Anyway, very highly recommended.

1:31:09

Both of them. Both of these are so

1:31:11

delicious to watch. That's that

1:31:13

that feels appropriate. Of course,

1:31:16

we've already mentioned white lotus.

1:31:18

And this is definitely my

1:31:20

obsession. Weirdly, like, both

1:31:22

my parents and I like watch this

1:31:24

and keep up on it and talk

1:31:26

about it. And it's kind of funny

1:31:28

because it's our thing. But if you

1:31:31

guys haven't watched White Lotus, I'm sure

1:31:33

you're hearing all about it right now

1:31:35

and talk about social media. I mean,

1:31:37

Parker Posey is having her moment right

1:31:39

now for sure. By the way, as

1:31:41

she should, I mean, I will probably,

1:31:43

I'll probably skip season two just to

1:31:46

come watch season three for her because

1:31:48

this is someone that like, she is

1:31:50

wildly talented and has been from the

1:31:52

very beginning. And it's like, she's the

1:31:54

queen of the Indies, but like, you

1:31:56

just go, how are you not a

1:31:59

major star? She's so brilliant. Yeah. Yeah.

1:32:01

Best in shows like has always been

1:32:03

my favorite. Also Jennifer waiting for Guffman.

1:32:05

I know. And you can't you can't

1:32:07

skip season two because it actually does

1:32:09

play into season three. It's not totally

1:32:11

separate. So I would say don't do

1:32:14

that. But dude, it's an easy binge.

1:32:16

Do it. I will. So White Lotus,

1:32:18

it's a dark comedy drama anthology series.

1:32:20

But there is some overlap there. And

1:32:22

it's created by Mike White, who we've

1:32:24

mentioned. And really, he loves to play

1:32:26

on the satire of privilege wealth. social

1:32:29

dynamics through the lens of

1:32:31

luxury vacations, which I'm here

1:32:33

for as well, because all

1:32:35

these shows make you want

1:32:38

to do is book your

1:32:40

next vacation. and

1:32:42

have such travel envy. But

1:32:44

in it, each season follows a different

1:32:46

group of wealthy guests at the White

1:32:48

Lotus Resort in a different location. So

1:32:52

season one was Maui, season

1:32:54

two was Taromina, Sicily, and

1:32:56

then season three is in

1:32:58

Thailand. And so

1:33:00

all of these like personal

1:33:02

flaws, entitlement, hidden tensions,

1:33:05

all gradually lead to some sort

1:33:08

of, there's definitely like betrayals and

1:33:10

scandals happening, but there's

1:33:12

some sort of like wacky death

1:33:14

that happens at the end of

1:33:16

all of these. So all seasons

1:33:18

depict how the rich are incredibly

1:33:21

insulated from true consequences of life,

1:33:23

but also of their own doing,

1:33:25

right? Their own flaws, the arrogance,

1:33:27

the greed, the moral decay. And

1:33:30

a lot of this ends up being

1:33:32

super self -inflicted, but White

1:33:34

Lotus is great. Again, I

1:33:36

know probably everybody's watching it right now anyway.

1:33:39

I saw this really interesting discussion

1:33:41

about somebody was saying Well,

1:33:43

I'm definitely not going to go to White

1:33:45

Lotus because somebody dies all the time. And

1:33:47

people, before I could even make a comment,

1:33:49

like there are all these other people going,

1:33:52

do you know how many people die on

1:33:54

cruises every year? Do you know? People

1:33:56

die at resorts every, like a lot,

1:33:58

like a way more than you would

1:34:01

think. Like it makes me think like,

1:34:03

oh, what's the one that like the

1:34:05

most recent ones, not there, not the

1:34:07

recent, but it happened something like three

1:34:09

different times at one resort where the

1:34:12

bartender is making drinks with like ever

1:34:14

clear or something or they're like our

1:34:16

moonshines like we don't have any tequila

1:34:19

so we'll just make up really sweet

1:34:21

margaritas with whatever I've got in the

1:34:23

back and they're all dead like you

1:34:25

know just like families died terrible

1:34:28

one thing and then I'll get off the

1:34:30

Parker Posey pony this is how great of

1:34:32

an actress she is there's a remake of

1:34:34

Lost in Space that is

1:34:36

on Netflix and has three

1:34:38

seasons. Unfortunately, it's not

1:34:40

consistent. It's a great idea. She

1:34:43

plays the doctor that was

1:34:45

played by a male. Traditionally,

1:34:47

that role was male and

1:34:50

she plays this. She's

1:34:52

impersonating a doctor and she is

1:34:54

a complete psychopath. She

1:34:56

is incredibly manipulative. She is

1:34:59

unbelievably brilliant and She is

1:35:01

like, she's the villain in

1:35:03

the fall through seasons. So

1:35:06

if anybody like, it's pretty good science fiction. It's

1:35:08

not consistent, but I would, I would highly recommend

1:35:10

watching it just for her performance. She's that great.

1:35:13

So another one that came out

1:35:15

that I think is really fascinating,

1:35:17

which won the Oscar. I was

1:35:19

not, I don't know if I

1:35:21

think that this movie deserves like

1:35:23

best picture. Yeah, that's what I've

1:35:25

heard. My husband loved it and

1:35:28

my husband is very critical of

1:35:30

movies, but a Nora and I

1:35:32

highly recommend watching it. because it

1:35:34

shows the story of the youngest

1:35:36

child of Russian oligarchs and how,

1:35:38

and this actor playing him is,

1:35:40

I mean, the kid's going to

1:35:42

be a star, absolute star. But

1:35:44

you see this arc of people,

1:35:47

the haves versus the have nots,

1:35:49

especially when it's in sort of