0:10

Welcome to the lawful assembly

0:12

podcast. My name's Cecil. I'm joined

0:15

by my friend, Reverend and retired

0:17

lawyer Craig Moose and Craig. Today

0:19

is our final show. We. We,

0:21

there's a lot of reasons, there's

0:24

a lot of reasons, and we're

0:26

gonna talk about it at the

0:28

end, but we have important information

0:30

we want to get to today

0:33

beforehand, but we definitely want people

0:35

to know if you saw the

0:37

title of it, you know, it's

0:40

our final show, but we want,

0:42

we have other things to talk

0:44

about before we get there. So

0:46

why don't we, before we have

0:48

a sad, sad parting, that we

0:50

had suggested people do. And they

0:52

actually came to fruition, so tell

0:55

us what happened. Our listeners joined

0:57

in with thousands to ask for

0:59

executive clemency for Leonard Peltier, who's

1:01

been in prison for over four decades.

1:03

Oh my gosh. And all kinds of

1:05

questions of prosecutorial misconduct.

1:08

Every new president over the last

1:10

several decades, people have asked for

1:12

this to happen. We asked our

1:14

listeners to join in, and President

1:16

Biden issued executive clemency

1:19

to permit Mr. Peltier. to be

1:21

at home with this family. Thank

1:23

you, President Biden. And thank you,

1:25

Leonard Peltier, for your witness

1:27

to how our nation has treated

1:30

indigenous peoples over so many centuries.

1:32

I know there are many people in

1:34

our country who don't want to hear

1:36

about that history. We have to hear

1:38

about that history. And we're grateful that

1:40

our listeners joined in with the crowd

1:43

and put their voice in there. President

1:45

Biden responded, sooner or later it might

1:47

not be even be legal to hear

1:49

about that history. Did you hear about

1:51

the Tuskegee Airmen? Well, they've been wiped off the

1:53

history. How would I hear about it? How would

1:55

you know? Unless there's a statue, right? Yeah. I

1:58

think they've changed that again. Have they gone? back.

2:00

There's all this going forward and going

2:02

back that's happening, Craig. As we talk

2:04

about today, one of the hallmarks of

2:07

this new administration is incompetence. They put

2:09

something out and then they rescind it,

2:11

they put something out, they put something

2:14

out, and then they rescind it, they

2:16

put something out, and then they back

2:18

off. It may almost be planned incompetence.

2:20

They may be trying to convince the

2:23

American public that government is not competent.

2:25

But I did read something late last

2:27

night that the Air Force has decided

2:30

to put the Tuskegee Unbelievable. And remind

2:32

me again why that's so important. Well,

2:34

I mean, this is the for this

2:37

is a this is a black regiment.

2:39

This is somebody who you know, these

2:41

are people who fought to be pilots.

2:43

And so that's an important part of

2:46

our history. And just to remove it

2:48

because you don't like DEA I is

2:50

a horror to those people. And we

2:53

didn't treat them very well when they

2:55

came back. Absolutely. And We appoint a

2:57

secretary defense who's a white Christian nationalist

3:00

who doesn't like the EI and how

3:02

can he honor those brave men and

3:04

women? I think we've talked before like

3:06

some of the soldiers who were incarcerated

3:09

during the Japanese detention during World War

3:11

II who went to fight in Japanese

3:13

regiments in Italy and in Europe and

3:16

had among the highest casualty rates yeah

3:18

because they felt they had to prove

3:20

something that Pete Hexup didn't have to

3:23

prove. Ain't that the truth? And if

3:25

they're trying to, what's the word whitewash?

3:27

Yeah. Yeah. This history. But again, I

3:29

think that video is back for the

3:32

dusky year. Okay, well. But there against

3:34

the problem. If you're going to go

3:36

back and forth, and whips saw us

3:39

back and forth, we're going to start

3:41

to think government doesn't help. And is

3:43

that their... Ultimately. Yeah, yeah. We had

3:46

to be careful how we even critique

3:48

these. We'll talk more about it because

3:50

we've seen enough of that already. Yeah,

3:52

yeah. There's another piece of news. We

3:55

also asked people to. President Biden for

3:57

Ravi Ragbeard and immigration rights activists in

3:59

New York City and he did get

4:02

pardoned and was able to be with

4:04

his family and not worry about some

4:06

of the really terrible things going on

4:08

with immigration enforcement these days. But thank

4:11

you again listeners for those of you

4:13

who joined in the many thousands around

4:15

the country that asked the president to

4:18

do that. We're very pleased and it's

4:20

nice to celebrate that. One of just

4:22

last podcast we talked about the birthright

4:25

citizenship. and how unconstitutional it was and

4:27

wrong. Recall we mentioned that the state

4:29

of Illinois joined the state of Washington

4:31

to ask for an injunction against that

4:34

birthright citizenship. Just want to read a

4:36

couple of the words. Can you explain

4:38

what an injunction is? Sure. Anytime a

4:41

law is passed, some people are going

4:43

to feel it denies them certain rights

4:45

or the law is just wrong, unconstitutional,

4:48

and it shouldn't go into effect. But

4:50

if you wait for the law to

4:52

go into effect, people get hurt. And

4:54

we have this process for enjoining actions.

4:57

You can go in and ask a

4:59

court to say, we know we have

5:01

to litigate this, but that's going to

5:04

take several years to litigate whether it's

5:06

right or wrong. And we've built tests

5:08

into the law that says, if you

5:11

meet these points, A, B, C, D,

5:13

E, that has a possibility that you're

5:15

going to prevail and people will be

5:17

heard or it will be unconstitutional, we

5:20

think we should put it on pause.

5:22

You've made a strong enough case to

5:24

keep that from going to effect. I

5:27

see. All right? And so they said

5:29

this, a child born and is not

5:31

a citizen at birth certificate impact the

5:34

rest of their life. Again, the attorney

5:36

general joined in and U.S. District Judge

5:38

John Koganhauer. And Ronald Reagan appointee, I

5:40

think he's been on the bench for...

5:43

Where, where, what district is it? The

5:45

state of Washington. It's a federal district

5:47

court in Washington. And just a quote

5:50

that, we'll, we'll put the link in,

5:52

but quote, I've been on the bench

5:54

for over four decades. I can't remember

5:57

another case where the question presented... was

5:59

as clear as this one is U.S.

6:01

District Judge John Koganhauer told the Justice

6:03

Department Attorney. This is a blatantly unconstitutional

6:06

order. For decades I haven't seen a

6:08

case this poorly drafted and so clearly

6:10

unconstitutional. Man, the Supreme Court's really gonna

6:13

have to tie itself in knots to

6:15

agree with Trump, aren't they? Yeah. And

6:17

it will say a lot. We did

6:20

talk about this and why we thought

6:22

it was unconstitutional. There are still some

6:24

other cases still being litigated for injunctions,

6:26

but right now, that injunction is on

6:29

the birthright citizenship case. And so now,

6:31

after this is over, this will now

6:33

go to, will it see an actual

6:36

federal court or a federal appellate court

6:38

next? They can appeal the injunction or

6:40

it will stay in this court to

6:43

do the substantive case. So it depends

6:45

on what the Department of Justice. My

6:47

guess is... depending on what happens in

6:49

the, there's a case by the ACLU

6:52

that we mentioned last week in New

6:54

Hampshire, and I believe there's another case

6:56

in Massachusetts, there might even be more.

6:59

At some point it might all get

7:01

consolidated in one federal district court, but

7:03

we'll see it'll be interesting if the

7:06

other two courts don't issue injunctions. There'll

7:08

be all kinds of back and forth

7:10

in that sense. But again, it's a

7:12

good start for... those of us who

7:15

think these executive orders are wrong. I

7:17

should also add another quick thing. There

7:19

were what 28 or more executive orders

7:22

issue. Yeah, yeah, and then and then

7:24

40 some rescinded. Yeah, so I mean,

7:26

don't, don't, don't, don't forget that those

7:29

are very important. Right, yeah. But it's

7:31

also important. Some of the executive orders

7:33

were kind of like Santa Claus wish

7:35

lists. I'm the president, and I think

7:38

this should be, in effect. Constitution, we

7:40

have a 14th Amendment that texturally says,

7:42

birthright says, but I'm just gonna, been

7:45

sitting here drinking a lot of Diet

7:47

Coke, maybe I'll write this thing out.

7:49

And what? Yeah. Yeah, right. Well, what's

7:52

crazy to me is that we have

7:54

a president who thinks executive orders are

7:56

his vision board, that he can just

7:58

write something in and it's just going

8:01

to appear in the, you know, if

8:03

I just, if I just think about

8:05

it hard enough, it'll materialize. So he

8:08

got a lot of joy writing these

8:10

things and putting them out. But it's,

8:12

the sad part is a lot of

8:14

people are going to be hurt in

8:17

a lot of other. And a lot

8:19

of time wasted in the courts. They

8:21

have talked about flooding the zone. just

8:24

keep us on our toes. Those of

8:26

us who believe the Constitution has due

8:28

process and equal protection and liberty for

8:31

all. But it is some good signs.

8:33

Now there's also some negatives. The Lake

8:35

and Riley bill was signed today. Yeah,

8:37

Lake and Riley bill got signed into

8:40

law today. So that changes how we

8:42

interact with people who happen to be

8:44

criminals. Alleged criminals. That's the important piece.

8:47

Because if you're shoplifting, how many kids

8:49

are picked up for shoplifting? We have

8:51

enough history of officer Friendly comes in

8:54

and says, Craig, you're a Reverend, I

8:56

can do this. I'm going to confess

8:58

I shoplifted when I was a kid.

9:00

See? I'm going to confess I was

9:03

tempted. You never did it? We had

9:05

this local department store that had like

9:07

a whole long row of loose candy.

9:10

Yeah. We had one year that we

9:12

had, being in the baby boom generation,

9:14

we didn't have classrooms, so when I

9:17

was in fifth grade, there were two

9:19

fifth grades every days. I get out

9:21

at noon some days and other days

9:23

I'd, and so we had all afternoon,

9:26

and we'd go over there and we'd.

9:28

run down and people like put a

9:30

handout and try to grab candy. And

9:33

I was always tempted to do it,

9:35

but my grandmother would be so mad.

9:37

I shoplifted a GI Joe guy when

9:40

I was like nine years old and

9:42

I came home with it and I

9:44

was playing with it and my mom

9:46

was like, where did you get that?

9:49

And I said, oh, I saved up

9:51

enough money to buy it and I

9:53

lied to her and she said, you

9:56

won't be getting another one of those.

9:58

She knew, and she was like, that

10:00

won't happen again. Like you understand that

10:03

like there's nothing I can do now,

10:05

all this is already done, but that

10:07

won't happen again. And she knew 100%

10:09

that I had done it. And there

10:12

was a, you know, she wasn't mad,

10:14

but she was definitely disappointed. So. All

10:16

right, true confessions. I didn't shoplift, but

10:19

your story makes me remember. My mother

10:21

was very adamant about not having guns,

10:23

toy guns, and knives. Just not right.

10:26

And all the other friends had them,

10:28

right? Sure. And I don't know if

10:30

you remember, there was this Mattel six-shooter,

10:32

just like they had on the Westerns,

10:35

where they actually... Did they have pop

10:37

caps in it? No, this one had

10:39

little plastic bullets, actually, that you pushed

10:42

into a spring into the cartridge. I

10:44

did. and I put and I took

10:46

the money out of my brother's younger

10:49

younger younger younger younger that's bullying Craig

10:51

well I did in the way that

10:53

they didn't know I was the guilty

10:55

party oh there goes Tommy again losing

10:58

his piggy bank I don't think I

11:00

said that brother Tom I don't I

11:02

don't know if was you or my

11:05

other brothers but I and I think

11:07

you owe him some money with interest

11:09

here Craig I think Just like you

11:12

said, my mother said, where did this

11:14

gun come from? Oh, Steve and I,

11:16

we bartered or something. Bartered my brother's

11:18

money is what we did. I got

11:21

a lot of trouble for that. Rightfully

11:23

so. So, Tom, if that was your

11:25

piggy neck, send me your bill with

11:28

interest. This is the last show we're

11:30

already having to live in true confessions.

11:32

I want to talk about, so Lake

11:35

and Riley, we want to talk about

11:37

that. Let's, let's talk about how difficult

11:39

it is. What's going to happen? And

11:41

one of the things that you brought

11:44

up with the Lake and Riley Bill

11:46

is we charge people with crimes when

11:48

they come into this country, and you've

11:51

said many, many times that if they

11:53

come in and that's what we say

11:55

is illegal, that's not something that they

11:58

should be tried with if they're refugees.

12:00

Correct. And the refugee act from this

12:02

very start said, countries should not punish

12:04

people if they're forced to cross the

12:07

border to get away from persecution. But

12:09

the problem here is a policeman picks

12:11

up some for shoplifting, and once they

12:14

have them, that individual gets detained and

12:16

maybe turned over to ice. They never

12:18

get their day in courts. What if

12:20

I was in that group of kids?

12:23

My friends all took the candy, and

12:25

I was the slowest runner. And I'm

12:27

tempted, but I don't. and I get

12:30

picked up, right? My friends are all

12:32

eating their candy and I'm sitting up

12:34

at the jail in my town and

12:37

all, I don't have any paperwork. And

12:39

I go to, I, now the whole

12:41

deportation process starts and I may not

12:43

even be allowed out of detention to

12:46

go to a hearing in my town

12:48

if I was innocent or guilty and

12:50

to prove, look at the video cam.

12:53

I didn't take any candy. And how

12:55

many young people being those kind of

12:57

situations or other people? It just. Where

13:00

else have we said you can't have

13:02

your day in court? Yeah. And then

13:04

we're expediting and making the immigration deportation

13:06

process so much faster and moving faster

13:09

and can't get a lawyer. All of

13:11

a sudden you're on a plane going

13:13

to another country. Yeah. It just it

13:16

undermines almost the very principles. Didn't we

13:18

hate the British for just picking people

13:20

up and putting us... Where are these

13:23

conservatives forgetting? That's our principle of the

13:25

process of law. Yeah. And they make

13:27

up all these fantasy stories. And it's

13:29

just, let's go back to the basics

13:32

of why our nations should have stood

13:34

out differently because we promise people who

13:36

are in court. I was online yesterday

13:39

and I saw a comment from someone.

13:41

Now this isn't a, you know, somebody

13:43

who's famous. It's just a random person.

13:46

But I thought it was illustrative of

13:48

conservative comments on this topic. And one

13:50

of the things that they had said

13:52

was, you know, I don't mind that

13:55

some person... has to deal with if

13:57

they're in of you know, some immigration

13:59

offense, if they're just a citizen and

14:02

they get picked up by one of

14:04

these crews that's going out and grabbing

14:06

people and, you know, making these raids,

14:09

etc. They don't mind that someone is

14:11

inconvenienced if they're an American citizen as

14:13

long as their streets are a little

14:15

or infinitely safer I think is what

14:18

the wordage that they use. I don't

14:20

believe that doesn't take into account that

14:22

there's fewer... crimes by immigrants, etc., etc.

14:25

It's just a bad, it's a badly

14:27

thought out statement, but one of the

14:29

things that struck me was they're willing

14:32

to allow other people who happen to

14:34

look like immigrants to have more inconvenience

14:36

in their life, but you know, not

14:38

just more inconvenience. I mean, there's stories

14:41

of people who've spent years in jail,

14:43

in detention, waiting to get deported when

14:45

we find out that they're actually... United

14:48

States citizens. They were United States citizens

14:50

along, but they don't have a lawyer

14:52

that's appointed to them throughout the process,

14:55

so they couldn't prove it, and they

14:57

didn't know the process and they knew

14:59

the procedures, and they wind up spending

15:01

all this time in jail. And so,

15:04

and there's, you know, there's all kinds

15:06

of other reasons why this is bad

15:08

and why we shouldn't, we shouldn't, we

15:11

should err on the side of more

15:13

people get away with this than more

15:15

people get caught by this, because you're

15:18

going to be hurting more you dial

15:20

that up. to be more aggressive. We've

15:22

left before where I think you should

15:24

be going to law school. So now

15:27

that we're going to be ending the

15:29

show, you've got more time to go

15:31

to law school. I could start my

15:34

evening courses, Craig. Yes, yeah. But that's

15:36

first year criminal law one. Why do

15:38

we have so many protections innocent until

15:41

proven guilty? Why do we make the

15:43

government prove so many things because that

15:45

fear it gets put through our heads

15:47

as first year law students? better for

15:50

our society to let a few people

15:52

go free because the government failed to

15:54

prove their case that they might have

15:57

been guilty than to put an innocent

15:59

person in jail. to me, bedrock American

16:01

society. That famous Martin Neemomer poem, right?

16:04

First they came for the Jews and

16:06

I didn't do anything and then they

16:08

came for the labor activists and I

16:10

didn't do anything and then they came

16:13

to the communists and I didn't do

16:15

anything and then they came for me

16:17

and there was no one. We have to

16:19

teach that again that when we give enforcement

16:21

authorities powers that aren't checked by

16:24

due process, aren't checked by government

16:26

prove all your points. It just

16:28

ennobles them to do more and

16:31

more. And the officers become

16:33

the lawbreakers. The officers aren't leading

16:35

up to the constitutional protections. And

16:37

just, I wish that person is

16:39

listening, or if a friend of

16:41

his is listening, to just think

16:43

about what you're saying there. But

16:46

when they come for you, who

16:48

will be there to stand up

16:50

for you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well

16:52

Craig, one of the things that...

16:54

happened too recently is there was a

16:56

bill that was presented that was an

16:58

abortion bill, a national abortion ban. I

17:00

have no idea if that's going to

17:02

continue on, but it was certainly presented.

17:05

And that's one of the things too

17:07

that we'll get a chance to see

17:09

whether or not they lied about, right?

17:11

You'll get a chance to see whether

17:13

or not they lied about, right? You'll

17:15

get a chance to see whether or

17:17

not they lied about, and he said

17:19

multiple times. We did what it was

17:21

supposed to go back to go back

17:23

to states. I think the most important

17:25

thing that we need to pay attention

17:27

to is whether or not he's going

17:30

to lie about that. What's the next

17:32

step in this? This project 2025 stuff,

17:34

people talked about it and very much

17:37

this was this was brought up well

17:39

before the election and said this is

17:41

going to be the game plan. This

17:44

is what they're going to be the

17:46

game plan. This is what they're going

17:48

to do. This is how they're going

17:51

to. cut out wide swaths of government

17:53

remove a ton of people who they

17:55

see is in their way and they had this

17:57

plan from the very beginning and so we're getting

18:00

a chance to see it in

18:02

the first couple weeks, you're getting

18:04

a chance to see all the

18:06

things that they had suggested that

18:08

they were going to do in

18:10

Project 2020, 25, we're getting a

18:12

chance to see it happen now.

18:14

And just look at the litany

18:16

of the lie. It gets raised

18:18

that this is publicly known that's

18:20

been published. Trump's immediate reaction is,

18:22

I haven't read it, I don't

18:24

know anything about it, but I'm

18:26

against it. Okay, all right. So,

18:28

but they made a concerted effort

18:30

to say this is not part

18:32

of our campaign. This is not

18:34

where we're going. Yeah. This morning

18:37

on the radio, I hear Stephen

18:39

Miller say the president was elected

18:41

and he has to effectuate the

18:43

will of the American people. The

18:45

American people were promised by him

18:47

that Project 2025 would not be

18:49

part of his agenda. Now people

18:51

like Stephen Miller, Thomas Holman, who

18:53

helped draft the immigration section and

18:55

others. are going into this administration

18:57

to implement project 2025. How can

18:59

you say that the president is

19:01

effectuating the will of the people

19:03

if the people were told project

19:05

2025 would not be part of

19:07

his agenda? Mr. Miller also said

19:09

like many politicians that the president

19:12

has a mandate to implement this

19:14

and it caused me to look

19:16

up. Do I really know the

19:18

definition of the mandate? Part of

19:20

me was thinking, well, mandate means

19:22

if you got like 80% of

19:24

the vote or something like that.

19:26

But turns out that doesn't have

19:28

to be. But in the Merriam

19:30

Webster Online Dictionary, I'll put a

19:32

link in so you can fact

19:34

check me. They have a little

19:36

section after the actual definition, which

19:38

what does this really mean? And

19:40

I want to read the last

19:42

part of that paragraph. Quote, elections

19:44

are often interpreted as mandates from

19:47

the public for certain kinds of

19:49

action. But since a politician is

19:51

not just a symbol of certain

19:53

policies, but also an individual who

19:55

might happen to have an awfully

19:57

nice smile, it could be risky

19:59

to interpret most elections as mandating

20:01

anything at all. Mr. Miller, do

20:03

you like Mr. Trump's smile? I

20:05

think he does. Craig. But the

20:07

bigger point is, he's not effectuating

20:09

the world of people. He's effectuating

20:11

the opposite of what he promised

20:13

the people. And if we talk

20:15

about mandating, even without that, there's

20:17

only about a third of Americans

20:19

that could vote, that voted for

20:21

Trump. About a third of them.

20:24

You know, now fewer voted for

20:26

Kamala Harris, that's true, but fewer

20:28

voted for Trump. And, you know,

20:30

then half of the people even.

20:32

And so let's not pretend it's

20:34

a mandate or the broad will

20:36

of the people who didn't vote.

20:38

A lot of people who are

20:40

disaffected by the system who don't

20:42

see it as a lose-lose no

20:44

matter what they do, and then

20:46

you have a lot of people

20:48

who are voting against it. So

20:50

let's not pretend it's something that

20:52

everybody in the United States wants.

20:54

Monday night, I believe around 11

20:56

o'clock Washington Time, the Office of

20:59

Management and Budget, on behalf of

21:01

the executive office of the present,

21:03

issued a memorandum late that evening.

21:05

goes out to the world. Total

21:07

panic around this country and for

21:09

a number of reasons. The idea

21:11

is, here again the word mandate,

21:13

the American people elected Donald Trump,

21:15

president of the United States, and

21:17

gave him a mandate to increase

21:19

the impact of every federal taxpayer

21:21

dollar. Those taxpayer dollars had... Help

21:23

him play golf? No, but that's

21:25

not what's talking about. He promises

21:27

to bring down his golf score

21:29

over the next few years ago.

21:31

But this is the one campaign

21:33

promise he could keep. Well, doesn't

21:36

he always not tell the truth?

21:38

I don't know. But this calls

21:40

for identifying and reviewing all federal

21:42

financial assistance programs. and causing a

21:44

90-day pause. This impacts all Americans,

21:46

regardless of who you voted for.

21:48

And it costs panic in a

21:50

course. So I'm going to get

21:52

to that panic part, but let

21:54

me just read something first that

21:56

struck me. This is the justification

21:58

that we have to focus the

22:00

taxpayer dollar. to advance, quote, to

22:02

quote, to advance a stronger and

22:04

safer America, eliminating the financial burden

22:06

of inflation for citizens, unleashing American

22:08

energy and manufacturing, ending quote, wokeness,

22:11

unquote, and the weaponization of government,

22:13

promoting efficiency in government, and making

22:15

America healthy again. The use of

22:17

federal resources to advance Marxist equity,

22:19

transgenderism. and Green New Deal's social

22:21

engineering policies is a waste of

22:23

taxpayer dollars that does not improve

22:25

the day-to-day lives of those we

22:27

serve." C. So you scan the

22:29

net. What is Marxist equity? And

22:31

who was arguing for that in

22:33

this election? I don't know what

22:35

Marxist equity is. I have no

22:37

idea. And that was part of

22:39

the debate that the American public

22:41

were voting about. I'm a I'm

22:43

believer in Christian equity. I believe

22:46

that we're all created in the

22:48

image of God and we're all

22:50

equal and that acknowledged equal, but

22:52

we have that sense that we

22:54

all have equal ability to move

22:56

forward. I think I know what

22:58

it is. Your place Scrabble. You

23:00

know, they have like that, my

23:02

daughter always beats me. Yeah, that

23:04

little that little bag full of

23:06

stuff. Right. I think what they

23:08

do is they have little tiles,

23:10

but they just have scary buzzwords

23:12

on them. And so they just

23:14

reach their hand in and they

23:16

pull three and they say, Oh,

23:18

it's it's Mark with Marxist equity.

23:20

You know, maybe they pull out,

23:23

you know, transgenderism. D.I. is probably

23:25

one of them, that sort of

23:27

thing. And so they just pull

23:29

them out and then they can

23:31

they can make whatever they want.

23:33

It's like a mad lips. I

23:35

just invite how many people heard

23:37

this argued is this is the

23:39

will of the American people to

23:41

to get rid of that big

23:43

threat. But think of what's happened.

23:45

Research grants at hospitals and medical

23:47

programs. I heard one report that

23:49

cancer research that was just in

23:51

the point of publishing and they

23:53

needed that last. dollar from the

23:55

federal government to get it over

23:58

them. That's close. That's stop. Research

24:00

at universities around the country, but

24:02

also all kinds of programs. And

24:04

it was really unclear how much

24:06

of this was going to happen.

24:08

I was in a meeting at

24:10

the Paul and Tuesday morning and

24:12

all of a sudden, like, what?

24:14

Is every contract from the federal

24:16

government now suspect for 90 days?

24:18

We can't move forward. And this

24:20

also followed the earlier executive orders

24:22

shutting down foreign aid assistance programs.

24:24

And then, oh, but guess what

24:26

happened today? They rescinded this order.

24:28

Yeah, and it's a one-line, sorry,

24:30

we made it, not even sorry,

24:33

just we rescinded this order, the

24:35

end. And we can't let them

24:37

get away with this, because already

24:39

people have been laid off from

24:41

jobs, furloughed, their futures are uncertain,

24:43

just for that 30 hours or

24:45

so that this was in effect,

24:47

hundreds of hours spent trying to,

24:49

how do I save a program?

24:51

And it just, and how wrong

24:53

it is, just today's, this green

24:55

New Deal social engineering, can I

24:57

quote Thomas Friedman a couple times?

24:59

He had editorial today, it's New

25:01

York Times, again, we'll put a

25:03

link in. quote, Trump's right-wing wokism,

25:05

impugning electric vehicles and renewable energy

25:07

because they don't conform to magga

25:10

ideology and aren't, manly enough, is

25:12

a devoid of common sense and

25:14

not remotely in the national interest

25:16

as any left-wing cultural wokism. Move

25:18

down, quote, most important, if Trump's

25:20

all in on fossil fuels, Drill

25:22

baby drill rally and cry at

25:24

the dawn of this era of

25:26

artificial intelligence, electric vehicles, batteries, and

25:28

autonomous cars really becomes our strategy.

25:30

It will not make America great

25:32

again, but it will definitely help

25:34

make China great again. And Friedman

25:36

concludes, it is just the opposite

25:38

of common sense. Indeed, it makes

25:40

no sense. China has to be

25:42

loving it. because as leaders know

25:45

just how much we will weaken

25:47

America as a competitor in the

25:49

industrial ecosystem of the future, AI,

25:51

autonomous vehicles, battery, and clean powder.

25:53

And there, Mr. Matthew J. Vef,

25:55

acting director of the Office of

25:57

Management and Budgetment, that's that green

25:59

New Deal social engineering you're trying

26:01

to stop that is going to

26:03

make China great again. Yeah. Thank

26:05

you, President Trump, but they rescinded

26:07

it. Yeah. But we can't let

26:09

them get away because of the

26:11

harm it's done already. Yeah, no.

26:13

Yeah. I mean, you can't, they're

26:15

basically, this is, it might not

26:17

seem planned, but it looks, it

26:20

feels planned. It feels like you're

26:22

throwing a bunch of, you're trying

26:24

to throw pocket sand in people's

26:26

eyes to get them disoriented. We're

26:28

trying to get people disoriented, trying

26:30

to make people feel like. the

26:32

government that they've been relying on

26:34

for these grants and other things

26:36

that it's not reliable anymore. These

26:38

jobs, like you say, are going

26:40

into a spiral because they have

26:42

to furlough people because they can't

26:44

afford it because they were relying

26:46

on grants, etc. They're trying to

26:48

cause this chaos. Trump is a

26:50

chaos agent and he's been trying

26:52

to cause this chaos for a

26:54

long time and he is happy

26:57

to cause this chaos. But what

26:59

are the people that will feel

27:01

pain? Well, those people, we need

27:03

to be there for those people.

27:05

That's the real key. I'm hoping

27:07

former President George Bush speaks up.

27:09

I heard one report this morning.

27:11

The executive order that stopped foreign

27:13

assistance money will impact the HIV

27:15

prevention programs that were a hallmark

27:17

of his compassion and conservatism. From

27:19

everything I've read, President Bush was

27:21

proud of a program that provided

27:23

medicine to combat HIV. And what

27:25

I heard in the report this

27:27

morning, again, I'm not a doctor,

27:29

I'm just reporting why I heard,

27:32

this medicine helps keep the viral

27:34

count low in the person's body.

27:36

And every week that goes by,

27:38

that they don't get the medicine,

27:40

the viral count grows and grows

27:42

and grows. At some point, the

27:44

medicine won't be helpful to stop

27:46

it. And we're talking about people

27:48

dying. Yeah. they're playing this game.

27:50

We're talking people not getting food

27:52

or not getting medicine. We're talking,

27:54

I have friends who work at

27:56

the Heartland Alliance International that have

27:58

foreign assistance programs, people dedicating their

28:00

lives to helping people get out

28:02

of poverty, get health care, get

28:04

proper food, and they're all furloughed.

28:07

And for what, for this idea

28:09

of wokism or this idea of

28:11

lack, not even a good justification.

28:13

If you're gonna cut. Discretionary funds,

28:15

why don't you cut the 146

28:17

golf courses the military has around

28:19

the world? There are a million

28:21

dollars apiece to maintain for a

28:23

year. And yet, okay, the one

28:25

memo has been rescinded, but we

28:27

still don't know if another one's

28:29

coming down the road. Sure, sure.

28:31

And it might be a more

28:33

pointed one. It might be one

28:35

that says, okay, we're not going

28:37

to pause this and this and

28:39

this, but we are going to

28:41

pause this. This gets back to

28:44

like the person you heard about

28:46

the one what what it packs

28:48

me in my street here I

28:50

was talking to a pastor from

28:52

a church out east today and

28:54

there was this program that was

28:56

developed under the Biden administration called

28:58

Welcome Corps and there was a

29:00

recognition that we had to rebuild

29:02

refugee settlement back after the first

29:04

Trump administration because it had basically

29:06

eviscerated the tremendously good refugee resettlement

29:08

programs that churches and other voluntary

29:10

agencies had worked with all around

29:12

the country to take people who

29:14

are vetted outside of the country

29:16

almost two years to go through

29:19

a long process to vet and

29:21

then would come into the country

29:23

and then local groups would work

29:25

with them and help provide housing

29:27

and job training and language skills.

29:29

And then the welcome corps said,

29:31

well, here's a way that individual

29:33

churches can help and get a

29:35

family, and let's do this. So

29:37

this pastor said there was someone

29:39

in his church, had someone from

29:41

a country that was seeking asylum

29:43

here, but had to leave his

29:45

wife and children in the home

29:47

country. And so they applied for

29:49

the welcome corps, and they were

29:51

accepted, and the family with all.

29:54

of vetting and was getting ready

29:56

to fly here. And this new

29:58

administration came in and stopped it.

30:00

Yes. And now, listen to this,

30:02

at Christmas, the people in the

30:04

congregation who were sponsoring this whole

30:06

process, the church had gone and

30:08

raised several, I think, $15,000 to

30:10

help. So there wasn't taxpayer money.

30:12

That was this congregation, right? The

30:14

parents of the church member who

30:16

helped organize this, they invited the

30:18

asylum seeker over. And they looked

30:20

him in the face and said.

30:22

Aren't you excited next Christmas your

30:24

family's going to be with you?

30:26

Those parents voted for Trump. Unbelievable.

30:28

And we're going to have to

30:31

ask those parents to now go

30:33

to that asylum seeker and say

30:35

his family may never get reunited

30:37

or if they do it might

30:39

be 10 years from now. I

30:41

want to ask our listeners, talk

30:43

to people who voted for this

30:45

administration. Were you trying to break

30:47

up families like that? It just

30:49

hit to the pit of my

30:51

stomach when I heard that story.

30:53

That's been now... kind of happened

30:55

all over this country and we

30:57

have to turn to those people

30:59

who voted for this administration. Was

31:01

that your intent? Was your intent

31:03

to have people die from HIV

31:06

because they didn't get the medicine

31:08

they've been promised? 1600 Afghans had

31:10

their flights canceled. The other part

31:12

of this wokism really chose me.

31:14

I'll put a link in the

31:16

Shona. I just finished an article

31:18

about DIB and my work as

31:20

an ombudsman for over 20 years.

31:22

And it forced me to do

31:24

a lot of reading about DIB.

31:26

administration seems to be intent to

31:28

limiting the word, right? They're asking

31:30

people in government to report anyone

31:32

that might be using the word

31:34

or cloaking in or something else.

31:36

But what is it that they're

31:38

afraid of? We've always been a

31:41

nation of immigrants and say, how

31:43

excited we are to have cultural

31:45

diversity? We don't want to be

31:47

this homogenous, didn't we used to

31:49

blame? the Soviet Union or or

31:51

communist China that they they didn't

31:53

have individuality and that we were

31:55

different freedoms quote about all they've

31:57

done is a right wokeism. And

31:59

see, so what just a week

32:01

or two ago you said, what

32:03

is it about these conservatives? They're

32:05

all for free speech until they

32:07

get pushed a little bit. And

32:09

then it's all like, oh, and

32:11

let's have the debate about

32:13

DIB, belonging. It's diversity and belonging.

32:16

And if you don't like it,

32:18

engage in conversation, don't try to

32:20

shut it down. And that to me

32:22

is, what are you afraid of? And

32:25

I thought you were big strong advocates

32:27

of free speech. But all you're doing

32:29

now is looking for ways. And it

32:31

strikes me that's East Germany when you

32:33

call up some hotline and say, oh

32:35

my neighbors listening to Radio Free America.

32:37

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think one of

32:39

the problems that they equate this to

32:41

reverse racism is what they call it.

32:43

They say it's racism against white people.

32:45

And I say to them, I say,

32:47

well, if you want a true meritocracy.

32:49

A true meritocracy would take everybody into

32:52

account and say who rises to

32:54

the top. That's what DEI does.

32:56

DEI just includes them in the

32:58

space. It doesn't say that they

33:01

have a preferential place in that

33:03

space. It just as they're included

33:05

in this space too. What you

33:07

want is a meritocracy between white

33:09

people. That's what you want. You

33:12

don't want a meritocracy that includes

33:14

people. And that's the real issue

33:16

here. They're terrified that other people.

33:18

are just as qualified as they

33:21

are or more qualified for those jobs and

33:23

if they get included they're not there anymore

33:25

and that's the real fear that's behind this

33:27

they call it something that it isn't they

33:30

make it seem like it's affirmative action but

33:32

it's not it's just including everyone and if

33:34

you really are for a meritocracy you would

33:36

want something like this I don't think that

33:39

any of these people are don't some of

33:41

your messages and think that I think that

33:43

I don't think that I'm using their language

33:46

that they would use Just let's have a

33:48

dialogue. Yeah, they don't want to dialogue Craig.

33:50

And they're using the power of government

33:52

there weaponizing government to try to stifle

33:54

this conversation. All right, so we are

33:56

closing down the show and we're closing

33:58

on the show at We don't think

34:00

that there's a good time to do

34:03

this. We think that no matter what,

34:05

it's going to be a bad time

34:07

to do it, especially now with this

34:10

new administration that's coming in, but there's

34:12

a lot of reasons why we're doing

34:14

this. The most important is that for

34:16

all the time effort and also money

34:19

that we put into the show, there's

34:21

just not as big a reach that

34:23

we would need to sort of continue

34:25

growing and continue. continue on with the

34:28

show and make it so that it's

34:30

something that is reaching a great deal

34:32

of people. We've in fact since the

34:34

election have lost about a third of

34:37

our listeners. The listenership was never very

34:39

large to begin with and it's just

34:41

sort of it's sort of I think

34:43

that there is something to be said

34:46

about people's willingness to encounter. certain things

34:48

that might upset them and this is

34:50

I recognize too that like you know

34:52

with the election of Donald Trump this

34:55

may be a now an upsetting place

34:57

for them to live and for them

34:59

to think and so I understand that

35:01

people may not want this in their

35:04

weekly rotation because they feel like you

35:06

know I have enough bad news in

35:08

my life do I need to keep

35:11

on compiling bad news and I understand

35:13

people stepping away from their news podcast

35:15

at this time but when people stepped

35:17

away from this one you know this

35:20

is such a small audience, it's so

35:22

hard to continue on if you're not

35:24

reaching a level of people that you

35:26

think you would need in order from

35:29

the work that we put in this

35:31

show to be worth it. I confess

35:33

I'm grieving. I've really appreciated these conversations.

35:35

Cecil, you've taught me a lot and

35:38

our listeners are questions. I would ask

35:40

if you had a little time to

35:42

even tell us what we were missing.

35:44

If you have a lot of time

35:47

to get those emails, but you can

35:49

email me directly and you can find

35:51

me on the net. I just be

35:53

curious. I want to tell people the

35:56

lawful assembly still important. I may look

35:58

for ways to try to continue, but

36:00

Cecil's right. The effort to put this

36:03

particular show on has really been difficult.

36:05

But I want to give an example

36:07

of... of there's a lot of ways

36:09

to be part of the lawful assembly.

36:12

Saturday I was part of a protest

36:14

and I remember last week I talked

36:16

about the Chicago police and their bicycle.

36:18

I got to see a lot of

36:21

them again marching down Michigan Avenue when

36:23

it started initially as a protest to

36:25

free Palestine and to oppose some of

36:27

the violence that's happening in Gaza because

36:30

of the events of the last week.

36:32

Another group that was protesting the enhanced

36:34

enforcement of immigration law and some of

36:36

the violations of individual freedom that's going

36:39

on with this alleged lightning speed mass

36:41

deportation. And it was fascinating, Cecil. We

36:43

start marching and the front is the

36:45

truck with the loudspeakers and mostly those

36:48

who are favoring freedom for Palestine in

36:50

an end of the war in Gaza.

36:52

You know, that took over a block

36:55

or so of people in flags and

36:57

signs and there's just, you know, I

36:59

love the originality of people can write

37:01

in signs about just the seeds of

37:04

lawful assembly, and use the word, but

37:06

lawful of people protesting. I'm an old

37:08

guy, so I kept moving farther and

37:10

back because the loudspeakers are so loud,

37:13

and also I turn around and there's

37:15

the whole group marching for immigrant rights.

37:17

And there's different flags and different signs

37:19

and different languages and they merge to

37:22

all become one big lawful assembly. And

37:24

I was just so grateful to feel

37:26

that unanimity of a purpose that something's

37:28

wrong and we've got to fix it.

37:31

So I promised to our listeners, I

37:33

will continue, we're going to find different

37:35

ways to continue protesting when our

37:37

nation is not just, when it

37:39

doesn't. provide equal protection for all,

37:42

continue writing in other ways. And

37:44

thank you for those who stood

37:46

with us, sent us really some

37:48

amazing questions along the way. And

37:50

thank you. And Cecil, thank you

37:52

for, I know how much work

37:55

you've put in terms of the

37:57

production as well as just this.

37:59

And I. I would urge us,

38:01

if I can take one personal

38:03

privilege, one of those organizations that

38:05

got hurt very badly by this

38:07

group is the Culver Center for

38:10

Survivors of Torture, and I've been

38:12

working with them on their, I

38:14

am on their leadership council, and

38:16

they work with Survivors of Torture,

38:18

Asylum Seekers, and provide therapists and

38:20

group therapy, individual therapy, for individuals

38:22

who are suffering from post-traumatic stress

38:25

disorder and other. health-related issues had

38:27

come from the torture and the

38:29

persecution they received and seeking asylum.

38:31

Amazing work and a lot of

38:33

volunteers but also some amazing staff

38:35

people that have taught me so

38:37

much and helped me be a

38:40

better asylum lawyer on how to

38:42

work with individuals in hearings. They

38:44

had to lay off more than

38:46

half their staff last week because

38:48

of this foreign aid assistance and

38:50

this... Even if in 90 days

38:52

money gets re-established, I'm going to

38:55

put a link in there. If

38:57

you have any extra change or

38:59

know anyone that might support something,

39:01

if you could send them some

39:03

money because just think of people

39:05

who are suffering from PTSD trying

39:07

to understand all this and all

39:10

of a sudden they don't have

39:12

their therapist and they don't have

39:14

the group. It's just, and I

39:16

know we're all going to get

39:18

hit with requests for donations. So

39:20

I just ask that if you

39:22

have some, please, please share that.

39:25

But also, maybe groups in your

39:27

own town that are going to

39:29

be hurt by this, because we

39:31

are going to be seeing the

39:33

tragic consequences. So thank you all,

39:35

and I just so much appreciate

39:37

the time with all of you.

39:40

Thank you. I know that Craig,

39:42

you're going to continue to work

39:44

with immigrants. I know that's part

39:46

of your life, and that's something

39:48

that you're going to continue to

39:50

do. I'm glad you got an

39:52

opportunity to teach me about a

39:55

lot of the stuff that you

39:57

do, which is really great. I

39:59

know that too in the show

40:01

notes, one of the things that

40:03

I think we want to do

40:05

is provide information for people because,

40:08

you know, we were a place

40:10

that vetted information and we're not

40:12

going to be around, but we're

40:14

going to leave links. the show

40:16

notes to places where you can

40:18

find out real information about immigrants

40:20

and real information about immigration and

40:23

what's happening in that world because

40:25

There's a lot of right now

40:27

misinformation and a lot of virality

40:29

that's happening that might be misinformation

40:31

or disinformation and you know that's

40:33

it's important not to get caught

40:35

up in things that are viral

40:38

and to follow things that are

40:40

actually true and actually true and

40:42

actually happening and focus your attention

40:44

on things that are actually happening

40:46

rather than things that aren't and

40:48

this is a time to really

40:50

focus on that. So we're going

40:53

to leave some links in the

40:55

show notes for places that you

40:57

can go to find out good

40:59

solid information about immigration and things

41:01

that are happening in the. world.

41:03

We, we, I will continue to

41:05

do podcasts that I think are

41:08

helping create a space for, you

41:10

know, people that are, you know,

41:12

either on the margins or people

41:14

that are, you know, on currently

41:16

now fighting against this particular government

41:18

and their overreach. and all the

41:20

different things that I do, but

41:23

I'm grateful that we had this

41:25

opportunity to talk about immigration, have

41:27

conversations with each other, and have

41:29

conversations about some of the things

41:31

that happened this last summer that

41:33

really was enlightening to see how

41:35

our two-tier justice system reacts to

41:38

very important people getting in trouble.

41:40

So it's one of those things

41:42

that was really enlightening to me,

41:44

and I'm glad we were able

41:46

to do it, Craig. And as

41:48

our theme song says, don't let

41:50

your voice fade away. Perhaps, Cecil,

41:53

we can end the show with

41:55

playing one more round of that,

41:57

of our song. And I promise

41:59

you, I'm not going to let

42:01

my voice fade away as long

42:03

as I have a voice. And

42:06

I wish that for all of

42:08

you. Don't let your choices go

42:10

straight. Go a straight. Go a

42:12

straight. Go a straight. Don't let

42:14

your rhythm be bound. Be bound.

42:16

Be bound. Don't let your treasures

42:18

go on found. Go on found.

42:21

Go on. obscure

42:37

the sun

42:40

obscure the

42:42

sun obscure

42:44

the sun

42:47

don't let

42:49

creation come

42:52

undone come

42:54

undone come

42:56

undone come

42:59

undone don't

43:01

let your

43:04

hand You

43:08

met your wisdom,

43:10

failed to teach,

43:12

failed to teach,

43:14

failed to teach,

43:17

sing with what

43:19

you're given, unlock

43:21

every cell, unleash

43:23

your long-lost trumpet,

43:25

dust off every

43:27

bed. Let

43:43

the darkness be

43:45

your home. Be

43:48

your home. Be

43:50

your home. Don't

43:52

let fear, lock

43:54

your door. Lock

43:57

your door. Lock

44:00

your door! Don't let

44:02

the let When

44:05

the war! When the

44:08

the war Win

44:10

the war

44:12

Not when eyes

44:14

can can when

44:16

ears can hear

44:18

Not when mouths can

44:20

speak Not when

44:23

hearts can sail Not

44:25

when love can

44:27

breathe in Don't

44:30

let your voices fade

44:32

away Fade

44:34

away Fade

44:37

away Don't

44:41

let fear lock

44:43

your door your

44:45

your door

44:48

Lock your door

44:51

Don't let the

44:53

the war Win

44:56

the war Win

44:58

the war Do

45:02

not forget

45:04

what love is

45:06

for is for.

45:09

is for for.

45:11

is for for. Love

45:13

is for.