0:00

Hi , lady Leader , and welcome to this

0:02

episode of the Leading Her Way podcast

0:04

. This podcast is for

0:06

you if you are an introverted female

0:09

leader who wants to be the best

0:12

leader you can be at

0:14

, both home and work , or

0:17

if you are an introverted , ambitious

0:19

female leader who wants

0:21

to take your career

0:23

to the senior leader or executive

0:25

level . I am

0:28

your host , dr Nicole Bryan , and I

0:30

am an introverted female

0:32

leader myself . I'm also

0:34

many other things I am a

0:36

daughter , a stepmother

0:39

, a friend

0:41

, a auntie Actually

0:43

, auntie is that's

0:46

one role that I I mean , I hold

0:48

all of my roles very near and dear

0:50

, but that auntie role is so

0:52

special to me for so many very reasons

0:54

. I'm also a

0:57

executive coach , I am a career

0:59

strategist , I am a

1:01

leadership expert , I am

1:03

a chief human resources officer

1:05

, I am a psychologist and many

1:08

things . But probably the most

1:10

important aspect is that I

1:12

pull all of these things that I am

1:14

and everything that I

1:16

have learned throughout my entire career

1:18

and pour it into this

1:21

podcast to serve you . Now

1:23

, if you are new here , then

1:26

you may or may not be aware that

1:28

a couple of months ago , I started

1:30

something new and different with the podcast

1:33

, so I wanted to make

1:35

sure that I was giving

1:38

you the content that you wanted

1:40

and you needed . So I actually started

1:42

taking listener questions Now

1:45

. Even though I am very

1:47

, very introverted , I

1:50

really enjoy hearing from

1:52

you and every listener

1:54

about what they like and even

1:57

what they don't like about the podcast

1:59

and the content and the topics that we

2:01

cover here content

2:06

and the topics that we cover here and so normally

2:09

I will get feedback from you in my direct messages on LinkedIn or

2:11

Instagram or you will respond

2:13

to emails that I send out

2:15

. But I also

2:17

wanted to give you the opportunity

2:20

to be proactive and

2:22

if you happen to think about a idea

2:25

or hear something about

2:27

a topic somewhere else that you

2:29

wanted to know more about and thought was relevant

2:32

to what we cover here on the podcast

2:34

, I wanted to give you the opportunity to

2:36

ask that question . So

2:39

I started doing listener question

2:41

episodes and I will admit

2:43

that , since this is still new , I haven't

2:46

opened it up to everyone . The

2:48

only individuals right now who can

2:51

submit listener questions to the podcast

2:53

are those who are subscribed to my

2:55

weekly newsletter , which

2:57

covers so much

2:59

more than we talk about here

3:02

on the podcast and so much more

3:04

than we talk about on LinkedIn . So

3:06

if you are someone who is looking

3:09

for direct strategies

3:11

and tips on a weekly basis

3:13

on how you , as an introverted woman

3:15

, can position yourself to

3:18

be the next best leader

3:20

in your organization or the

3:23

new organization that you're looking to

3:25

go to , and just

3:27

make your way to my website , wwwthechangedoccom

3:31

that's wwwthechangedoccom

3:40

. Download my private

3:42

podcast , Three Secrets to Success

3:44

for Introverted Women Leaders , and

3:46

you'll get access to three free

3:48

resources automatically . You'll

3:51

get the access to my private podcast

3:53

episode , you will get

3:55

access to my newsletter

3:57

community and you

3:59

will be one of a small

4:02

group of women who can

4:04

submit their listener questions to the podcast

4:07

. Okay , so let's talk about

4:09

today's listener question . Now

4:11

, this one is a really interesting

4:14

one and , frankly , it's taking us somewhere

4:16

we haven't yet really gone

4:19

or directly gone to on

4:21

the Leading Her Way podcast . Now

4:23

, I don't know about you , but I have

4:25

always found it difficult to

4:28

separate , as a leader , particularly

4:31

as a female leader , particularly as an introverted

4:33

female leader , to separate

4:36

my personal life from my professional

4:38

life , because I'm one person

4:40

, you are one person . So

4:43

to think that we could

4:45

draw a hard line between

4:47

what happens outside of work

4:49

and what happens inside of work is

4:52

a little naive in

4:54

my opinion , and that

4:56

didn't stop me , however , from wanting

4:59

to do that . I wanted to be able

5:01

to be who I am at home

5:03

, like I wanted to be able

5:06

to be who I am at home , walk into my workplace

5:08

, leave all of that home stuff outside the door

5:10

and be someone different , show up

5:12

a little differently at work , and

5:15

for years decades

5:17

actually I tried that and

5:20

finally I realized it

5:22

doesn't work . Now it's one thing

5:24

when your company or

5:26

your boss tries to force

5:28

that on you , or even your partner tries

5:31

to force that on you right , tries to force

5:33

you to separate who

5:36

you are at work versus who you

5:38

are outside of work , but it's a whole

5:41

nother thing when you

5:43

have those same expectations

5:45

of yourself , when we

5:47

are the individuals who expect

5:50

that and who have set a

5:52

standard for ourselves , that we

5:54

walk around with two different

5:56

hats a work hat and a non-work

5:59

hat . That's what I used to do

6:01

, and I finally got to

6:03

a place where , well , one , it was just freaking

6:05

, exhausting . And

6:08

two , I recognized that

6:10

it was unrealistic . And three

6:12

, I was like I saw

6:14

that I was not expecting that

6:16

of the other people that I worked

6:18

with . I was putting that burden on myself

6:21

, but for my direct reports

6:23

. I was caring . I wanted

6:25

to know what they were doing outside of work . I

6:27

wanted to see their personality big

6:29

and shine while they were

6:32

in the workplace . But for me

6:34

, for some reason , I was expecting

6:36

something different . But for me , for some reason , I was expecting

6:38

something different and I was trying

6:40

to hold back and separate out who I was outside of work

6:43

versus who I am inside of work . This

6:46

phenomenon , I mean , we all talk about

6:48

it . We've talked about work-life balance

6:50

, and then we said work-life balance isn't

6:52

possible . We should be thinking about

6:55

work-life integration . And

6:57

then we said , hey , integration isn't

6:59

possible . And we've come up with new terminology

7:01

. But no matter what you call

7:04

it , at the end of the day doesn't

7:07

matter what the label is . It really

7:09

matters in terms of what you

7:11

think , what you believe and

7:13

also how you show

7:16

up your actions , how you take

7:18

those beliefs and turn them into day-to-day

7:21

actions or non-actions , which

7:23

is why today's listener question

7:26

rings so very true

7:28

to me . I feel like this

7:30

could be me , maybe

7:33

five , six , seven years ago , asking

7:35

this same exact question

7:38

. And while it's true that here , on

7:40

Leading Her Way , we spend the bulk of our time

7:42

talking about career and professional

7:45

life related issues , challenges

7:47

, celebrations , all of those things

7:50

we also can't

7:52

get away from and can't ignore

7:54

the fact that we are human beings

7:56

and we have lives , interests

8:00

, desires that are not

8:02

necessarily career focused , and so

8:04

today's question brings

8:07

together both the professional and

8:09

the personal life , and so we have Sharla

8:11

to thank for that . So , sharla , if you're listening

8:13

, thank you for putting this question

8:16

out here , and I'm just going to read Sharla's

8:18

question and then we're going to answer it . So

8:20

Sharla says as a senior leader , I

8:22

confidently make million dollar decisions

8:25

and drive strategic change at work , but

8:27

at home I catch myself micromanaging

8:30

my husband and struggling to let go of

8:32

control , from how he loads the

8:34

dishwasher to how he handles

8:36

our kids' schedules . How do

8:38

other senior leader

8:41

women successfully switch

8:43

between being in charge at work and

8:45

being an equal partner at home ? Now

8:48

, if you are married and you are a leader

8:50

at work , I know that you can relate to

8:52

this question . But even if you aren't

8:54

married , I think Charlotte's

8:56

question can be extrapolated even

8:58

beyond the husband-wife relationship

9:01

, because many of

9:03

us have other relationships

9:05

that are central to our lives , whether it's

9:07

the relationship with our children , relationship

9:09

with our parents , relationship with friends

9:12

, relationship with maybe we're dating

9:14

and those relationships

9:16

, we also may find ourselves thinking

9:19

and feeling like we want to lead

9:21

all the time , or maybe feeling like we don't

9:24

want to lead all the time but feel

9:26

conflicted about that . And that's

9:28

essentially what Charlotte is saying , right ? So

9:30

she is saying , hey , I

9:33

am in my relationship

9:35

with my husband , who is my partner

9:37

. I

9:41

am in my relationship with my husband , who is my partner , but I'm so used to

9:43

making decisions all the time at work and being the sole decision maker that

9:46

often I find myself

9:48

being at home and talking to

9:50

my husband as if he is

9:52

or if I am at work

9:55

. And how do I adjust

9:57

that ? Or

10:03

if I am at work and how do I adjust that ? How do I make sure

10:05

that I am truly acting as a partner versus not ? So personally

10:07

, I can think of relationships outside

10:10

of my romantic relationships . Where this

10:12

comes into play , I'm always

10:14

talking about leaders

10:16

who don't have to

10:18

always lead right . So , leaders , your

10:21

natural instinct is to take charge

10:23

, but sometimes the best leaders

10:25

also know when and how to

10:27

follow , and I'm not suggesting that this

10:29

is the case for Sharla or should be

10:31

the case for Sharla , but it just making me

10:34

think about my personal

10:36

philosophy on hey

10:38

, even at work , even in

10:40

the corporate setting , there are times

10:43

where I , as a leader

10:45

, I have to make the decision , I have to

10:47

make the call and I expect my team to follow

10:49

. But there are other times where I

10:51

am not making the decision . I don't either

10:54

have enough information or I'm not

10:56

the subject matter expert , and I'll rely

10:58

on my team to tell me what to do , and in

11:00

those instances , I'm following . I'm

11:03

literally saying hey , I don't know

11:05

what's your recommendation , and

11:07

once they say the recommendation , if it sounds

11:09

good to me , then I'm off and rolling

11:11

Like I will support that , I

11:13

will champion it and we will get it done

11:16

. But I'm not the decision maker in that

11:18

instance and thus I need to

11:20

follow their lead , even

11:22

though I may be in a quote

11:24

unquote higher ranking position than they

11:26

are Right . So to

11:28

me , the smartest leaders

11:31

know when to lead and they know when

11:33

to follow . I think the same could

11:35

be said at home . Right , you

11:37

got to know when to lead , when to partner

11:39

, when to follow . So

11:42

, sharla , I can honestly

11:44

say that I have been

11:46

in the situation , or similar situation

11:49

that you are right now , where

11:51

my instinct is

11:53

to jump in

11:55

. Right . So there will be things that are happening

11:58

at home with our boys

12:00

or with my

12:02

partner , when he's

12:04

talking about things at work , or

12:07

when he's doing things or not doing

12:09

things around the house . My automatic

12:12

instinct is a couple of things

12:14

. If I can do it myself , if you're not gonna

12:16

do it the way I think it should be done , I

12:19

can do it myself . Or if

12:22

I'm asking my partner

12:24

to I'm making this up , but if I'm asking my partner

12:26

to take out the garbage or let's

12:28

say , every Sunday is garbage day and

12:31

if he doesn't take it out by

12:34

eight o'clock when I'm ready to go upstairs and go

12:36

to bed , then

12:39

my first instinct is either to tell him to take it out even though I clearly

12:42

know that he knows it's supposed to go out

12:44

and he's going to do it . He's just not doing it

12:46

on my timetable or my other

12:48

instinct is actually to do it myself

12:50

, which we all know that's

12:52

probably going to start some type of argument

12:54

or disagreement , right , because that's

12:57

his responsibility . He knows

12:59

it's his responsibility , he's going to do

13:01

it in his own time . But because I want

13:03

to feel better , like I want to feel

13:05

good about knowing that it's done

13:07

and we don't have to worry about it before I go up

13:09

to bed . My instinct is to actually

13:12

do it , which in and of itself , I

13:14

know intellectually is

13:16

undermining him and

13:18

his contributions . But

13:20

sometimes I can't help myself . And

13:23

so when I think about your question

13:25

, charlotte , that's what comes to my mind

13:27

, which is Sometimes

13:29

it's important for us as

13:31

individual women to

13:34

take the leader hat

13:36

off , and it's

13:40

not easy to do that . I know

13:42

for myself it's not easy , so I can only

13:44

imagine that for you and others

13:46

who may be listening it's not easy either

13:48

. And why is that ? It's because it's so

13:50

ingrained in us , right . Why is

13:52

that ? It's because it's so ingrained in us , right

13:55

. Being a leader is who we are , is

14:02

just as important or just as a part of us as being a wife or being a partner

14:05

, or being a daughter or being a friend . It's a part of who we are . So

14:07

it's very difficult to imagine taking

14:09

that out or turning that

14:11

off per se . And

14:14

so what I would say in this

14:16

instance is I think it's

14:18

important to clarify

14:21

or to get agreement with

14:23

your husband about what

14:26

he needs and what you

14:28

need . And so if you

14:30

I'm assuming that he has given you feedback

14:32

about your tone

14:35

. Or you're being a micromanager

14:37

or you have caught yourself

14:39

in terms of being a micromanager

14:41

, but I would want you

14:44

both to be very

14:46

and this is the psychologist in me coming in here

14:48

but I think it would be important for

14:50

both of you to if you haven't already

14:52

done it to articulate what

14:54

you need from each other in

14:57

this regard . So , in regard

14:59

to the household chores and things that need

15:01

to be done around the house , or how

15:04

you guys will partner to

15:06

manage your household , there

15:08

likely will be a division of labor

15:11

, and if you have

15:13

already divided the labor , this

15:15

might be an opportunity for you to sit down

15:17

and talk about how it's

15:19

working . Sit down and talk about

15:22

okay , when we say division

15:24

of labor , does it mean we're truly dividing

15:26

it and each person does it

15:29

the way they want to ? So if

15:31

he's taking out the garbage or

15:33

he's creating the kids' schedules , he

15:35

gets sole discretion and

15:37

sole decision-making power over that

15:39

? Or does division of labor

15:41

mean that each one of you has

15:43

the accountability to do it , but

15:46

you get to share with each

15:48

other your thoughts and opinions on how

15:50

it should be done ? Those are two very different things

15:52

. Right and opinions on how it should be done . Those are two very different

15:54

things , right , but making that decision proactively

15:57

gives you an understanding or lets you

15:59

have a leeway of

16:01

how much you should be contributing

16:03

, or how much you should

16:05

not be contributing , to each other's

16:08

respective roles and

16:10

responsibilities in the household . So

16:12

that's one thing I would say . Having that

16:14

conversation and coming to the agreement

16:17

on how you're not just

16:19

what you're going to split in terms of responsibilities

16:21

within the house , but how you're

16:23

going to split them , do you get

16:25

to share or say and tell

16:28

each other what you think about or

16:30

recommendations , or is it truly

16:32

like split and

16:34

keep going ? The second

16:36

thing I would say is , frankly

16:39

, charlotte , if you are micromanaging

16:41

or you find yourself micromanaging your

16:43

husband and what he is doing at

16:46

home , then I'm going to bet

16:48

that you are likely micromanaging

16:51

at work . You

16:59

are likely micromanaging at work and I think we all know that micromanaging

17:01

, as a tendency generally , is not the best way to

17:03

get the best results from

17:06

whomever it is that you are working

17:08

with . So if you're at work and you're micromanaging

17:10

your team or even micromanaging your colleague

17:13

hey , I know some leaders

17:15

who micromanage their own boss

17:18

and if that

17:20

is you , then you

17:22

already know that it may , in the

17:24

moment , feel good to you , like

17:26

, feel like , okay , I need to make sure that this actually

17:28

gets done , but it damages

17:31

working relationships . It

17:33

gives you and makes you take

17:35

on more work and more responsibility

17:38

than you should . It leads to

17:40

burnout , like there's so many negative

17:42

things about micromanaging . So if

17:45

you're doing it at home with your

17:47

husband , there's probably a

17:49

good chance that you're also doing it at

17:51

work , and I would say that's a bigger

17:54

issue that needs to be worked on

17:56

. But if you're looking for

17:58

thoughts on how you might be able to stop

18:00

it with your husband , I

18:03

think that you will

18:05

need to maybe ask

18:07

him to . If you're aware

18:09

of the behavior , then you can actually

18:11

stop yourself beforehand , and

18:13

I'll share a story about how I was able

18:16

to do that in a second . So if

18:18

you're already conscious and aware that you're

18:20

doing it at home , then you can

18:22

actually stop yourself , meaning

18:24

that you can call the moment in your head and

18:26

be like , okay , I know I shouldn't be saying this

18:28

, I'm going to stop and I'm going to walk

18:30

away from the situation . If you're

18:32

not already aware of it

18:34

, that you're doing it already , you might need

18:37

to ask your husband's help , like

18:39

, literally honey , when you

18:41

see or hear me micromanaging

18:44

you or trying to take over something

18:46

that you're responsible for , I need

18:48

you to give me a sign . I need you to give me a signal

18:50

. The signal could be whatever two snaps . The signal could be honey . You to give me a

18:52

signal . The signal could be whatever two snaps , the signal could be honey

18:55

. You're micromanaging . It could

18:57

be whatever , but some signal

18:59

that makes you aware

19:02

that you're doing the behavior that you don't

19:04

want to do , and then

19:06

you can actually stop it in the moment . So

19:09

the story that I was promising you is actually

19:11

a little bit the reverse of what Sharla

19:14

is experiencing , where my

19:16

partner used to ask

19:18

for my advice

19:21

and counsel all the time , which

19:23

I was happy to share . I

19:25

have thoughts , I have ideas

19:27

and , as a leader , that's

19:30

kind of natural for me . What

19:32

wasn't natural , however , was

19:34

when my partner would want me to make

19:36

the decision for him . Right , like

19:38

, what should I do ? And

19:40

although some people

19:42

could say , well , he's really just asking your

19:45

opinion , yes , but

19:47

he was also asking my

19:49

opinion on situations

19:51

that were very , very important to

19:54

his business and other relationships

19:56

that he had , and I

19:59

didn't want to take

20:01

that . I didn't want to take the decision away

20:04

from him . So part of my thing

20:06

as a partner and as

20:08

a leader , frankly , is I like to empower

20:11

people . I like people

20:13

to feel like they have the wherewithal

20:15

to help themselves . That's

20:18

part of what we do here on this podcast

20:20

. Right , you and I are talking

20:22

and being thought partners every

20:25

week , but we're doing it

20:27

because at least I'm doing it , because

20:29

I want you to have

20:31

more information , I want you to

20:34

stretch the way you think . I

20:36

want you to feel empowered

20:38

to be able to take your

20:40

career and your life to

20:43

whatever heights that you want

20:45

to , and that's how I feel about

20:47

my partner as well . And

20:49

so when the

20:51

questions were asked of me in terms

20:54

of what should I do , that's

20:56

where I would put the brakes on . That would always

20:59

be my trigger to be like Nicole

21:01

you don't answer that question

21:03

, because if you answer that question

21:06

, he's going to run with it , and that's

21:08

not his decision , that's your

21:10

decision . So part of me

21:12

, in terms of knowing

21:15

when to lead and when to follow

21:17

, part of my struggle has

21:19

always been I have to learn

21:21

and know when not to

21:23

offer guidance and advice

21:25

, even for the people that I

21:27

love . It's kind of like stories that I hear

21:30

from so many of you about guiding

21:32

your children Like your children will come to

21:34

you and they will ask mommy , mom , what should I

21:36

do ? Sometimes you're able

21:38

to help them think it through

21:41

, which is different

21:43

than giving them the answer , because

21:46

part of our role as parents

21:48

is making sure that our children

21:50

are able to make decisions

21:52

for themselves . We're preparing them for the world

21:55

, and if we are always the one doing

21:57

for them and or giving them the answer

21:59

, then they're not going to be able to do that for

22:01

themselves . I think it's similar

22:04

for our partners , I think it's similar

22:06

for our friends . I think it's similar

22:08

for how we deal with our elderly parents

22:11

. There is a time and

22:13

place for each of us to lead

22:15

in all of those relationships

22:17

, but there's also a time

22:19

and place for us to follow

22:21

. And so , sharla , what I would

22:23

come back to your question we've

22:25

talked about a couple of things that you can

22:28

do , but in particular

22:30

, with micromanaging , we

22:32

talked about that as well . I would

22:34

also say , one of the things that

22:36

Sharla didn't necessarily mention

22:39

, but I've heard other women

22:41

who struggle with kind

22:43

of this situation talk about is

22:46

the tone of their voice

22:48

. Specifically , they

22:51

are so used to commanding

22:53

at work in terms of

22:55

when they ask for things or

22:57

when they make decisions . They're usually

23:00

instructing people on what to do

23:02

and what to not to do tone

23:04

with their children and with their spouse that feels more

23:06

corporate-y and more directive versus

23:19

more cooperative and

23:21

more engaging . I

23:24

used to have this problem as well , and

23:26

so that's another thing to watch out for as well

23:28

. Now , the way that I deal with this and

23:31

if you are experiencing it

23:33

, I would recommend that you consider

23:36

dealing with it too is to practice

23:38

checking in for understanding

23:41

. So when you are

23:43

communicating , often it's difficult

23:45

to hear your own tone , and

23:47

even when you do hear your own

23:50

tone , what you hear may

23:52

come off different from

23:54

the people who are receiving it

23:56

, and so checking in with them

23:58

to see how they are

24:01

feeling about what you've communicated and

24:03

how you communicated it is

24:05

a good practice to

24:07

have . So what that would look like

24:09

would mean that , okay , if you're talking to

24:11

your spouse and you're asking

24:14

him about taking out the garbage

24:16

. Going back to my example that I used earlier

24:18

, you could also

24:20

ask how you

24:22

are coming across . Now , that takes a little

24:24

bit of vulnerability , but it's

24:26

so important because you

24:29

are believing that you're communicating in one

24:31

way , but it could be being received

24:33

in a totally different way . So I

24:35

might say to my honey , I

24:37

might say hey , I was

24:39

asking you about when you

24:41

were going to take out the garbage , but did that come

24:44

off as a question , or did you

24:46

feel like I was being judgy

24:49

, or did

24:51

it seem like I was asking you , or

24:53

did it feel like I was trying to tell you

24:55

what to do ? These are

24:57

the types of questions that

24:59

gets you to do

25:02

a couple of things . One it makes you

25:04

pause and acknowledge

25:06

that maybe your tone needs

25:09

some improvement , but then it also

25:11

allows your partner to see

25:14

that you're serious about working

25:16

on it and , frankly , that

25:18

you want their opinion on

25:20

how you are coming across . Okay

25:23

. So once again , sharla , I really want to thank

25:25

you for submitting this question . I

25:27

just believe that we , as

25:30

women leaders , each of us

25:32

is a single person , and to believe

25:34

that we , as women leaders , each of us is a single person and to believe

25:36

that we can separate out those

25:38

aspects of our personalities

25:41

and who we are is

25:43

unrealistic . And so

25:45

your question reminds us

25:47

that , as we are

25:49

one person , there is the

25:51

tendency that some of our

25:53

skill sets , and some of our

25:55

capabilities and some of our

25:58

strengths , as well as some of our

26:00

weaknesses and opportunities , will

26:02

relay over into

26:05

other aspects of our lives outside

26:07

of work , but that does not mean

26:10

that that's a bad thing . What

26:12

it does , however , is it provides

26:14

us with an opportunity to holistically

26:17

look at ourselves as

26:20

women , as introverts

26:22

and as leaders , and

26:24

gives us the chance to figure out

26:26

who we wanna be and how

26:28

we wanna show up in all aspects

26:31

of our lives . Now

26:33

, if you have a listener question that you

26:35

want to submit or a topic that you want to

26:37

talk about on the Leading Her Way podcast

26:39

, definitely go to wwwthechangedoccom

26:43

and download the three secrets

26:45

to success for introverted women leaders

26:47

. Then you'll have the opportunity to

26:50

submit your listener question . Until

26:52

next time , lady leader , keep

26:59

leading your introvert way

27:01

. That's a wrap for this episode

27:03

of Leading Her Way . Thanks for tuning

27:06

in . If you have thoughts , questions

27:08

or ideas for future topics , connect

27:11

and send me a message on LinkedIn and

27:14

if you enjoyed today's episode , subscribe

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and please take a minute to write a quick review on Apple Podcasts

27:20

. Your review will help spread

27:22

the word to other ambitious females so

27:24

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27:26

podcast is a community of support for

27:29

all of us leading her way to the top . Remember

27:32

your leadership is needed . Your

27:34

leadership is powerful , so

27:36

lead boldly Until

27:38

next time .