0:00

Hi friend, and welcome to a very

0:00

special edition of Less Chatter, More

0:03

Matter, The Communications Podcast. I'm your host, Mel Loy, and I'm recording

0:06

this on the lands of the Yuggera and

0:09

Turrbal people here in Meanjin Brisbane.

0:12

And it's a very special edition

0:12

because this is our 100th episode.

0:18

It's been a super fun ride, and

0:18

I'd like to give a big shout

0:22

out to April, who edits and

0:22

produces this podcast every week.

0:26

And keeps me on track,

0:26

which is no easy task.

0:29

And another shout out to you,

0:29

dear listeners, who keep tuning

0:32

in, sharing your feedback and

0:32

making this all worthwhile.

0:36

So to celebrate this auspicious occasion,

0:36

we thought we'd dive back into the past

0:41

100 episodes and share 10 of the top

0:41

key takeaways from the interviews with

0:46

our wonderful guests who have joined

0:46

us over the past couple of years.

0:51

Now, there were so many pieces

0:51

of gold information to share.

0:55

I'm not going to lie. It was really hard to cut this

0:55

down to just 10, but here we are.

1:00

And if there's been a standout learning

1:00

or interview from you for the last pod,

1:05

for the, from the podcast for the last

1:05

few years, I'd love to hear it as well.

1:08

So please let me know. Okay, let's get into it.

1:13

The first of my key takeaways from

1:13

our interviews with our guests

1:17

is from a episode we did just

1:17

recently with Sia Papageorgiou.

1:21

It was episode 97, all about strategic

1:21

internal comms and some research that

1:26

had been done around how comms people

1:26

are faring in that internal sector.

1:31

Now, my key takeaways from our interview

1:31

with Sia was how she reinforced the

1:35

need to develop business acumen. It's something I bang

1:37

on about all the time.

1:40

It's so important whether you are an

1:40

internal or external communicator.

1:44

So let's take a listen

1:44

to what Sia had to say.

1:47

You are there to

1:47

help the business succeed.

1:50

So build your business acumen. You also need to demonstrate the value

1:52

of what you do by measuring what matters.

1:56

And it's not enough just

1:56

to measure what matters.

1:59

You also need to link that to a business

1:59

benefit by quantifying that value.

2:05

Just because you work internally doesn't

2:05

mean that you can't build your business

2:09

acumen about what happens outside the

2:09

organisation, about your key stakeholders

2:13

about your employees, about leaders in the

2:13

organisation - about your own skill set!

2:17

Things are changing; look at you know,

2:17

artificial intelligence the way we're

2:20

using artificial intelligence right now,

2:20

which is another area we looked into in

2:24

the report and there are a ton of other

2:24

reports globally that are doing the same

2:28

Okay. Onto number two and accessible

2:28

communications is a topic we've delved

2:32

into a couple of times on the podcast

2:32

and I just love learning about it.

2:36

There is so much to learn and that's

2:36

why I really loved our chat with

2:40

Matisse Hamel-Nelis on episode 95.

2:43

One of the key lessons from this

2:43

episode that I took away was the

2:47

untapped purchasing power of people

2:47

with a disability simply because of

2:52

inaccessible websites and social media.

2:55

Let's take a listen.

2:57

1. 6 billion People in the world have

2:57

identified as having a disability that's

3:04

about according to a recent survey,

3:04

17 trillion dollar spending potential

3:10

between the people with disabilities

3:10

plus their friends plus their family.

3:13

Wow...

3:14

Right, so if you are

3:14

sitting there saying, you know I don't

3:17

need to have an accessible website

3:17

because somebody who is blind may

3:20

not visit my website for example. Um, let's say you sell cars - well,

3:22

what if that person with sight loss

3:26

actually has a 16 year old daughter

3:26

who is now eager to get her own car?

3:31

She's not paying for it. It's probably gonna be the parents

3:32

and if they need to actually look at

3:35

the content, like, you know, look at

3:35

the website to see is it a good car?

3:38

Does it pass certain checks? But they can't access it.

3:41

How good is Matisse? Okay, on to number three.

3:45

So in November, I interviewed David

3:45

Imber for episode 92, and it was all

3:51

on the topic of political communication

3:51

and how we can bring some of those

3:54

techniques into communication in general.

3:57

And it was really timely because

3:57

the US election had just occurred.

4:00

And of course, 2024 was the year

4:00

of elections with 64 countries

4:05

around the world holding

4:05

elections in those 12 months.

4:08

Now, as the conversation progressed, we

4:08

talked about how that political divide

4:12

is showing up in workplaces and often

4:12

along gender lines, and also how more

4:17

people are expressing their personal

4:17

opinions in the workplace and online.

4:22

Here's what David had to say.

4:24

And what is it often actually

4:24

quite different is now because we

4:29

have less lifelong employment and

4:29

people move around, um, and we have

4:34

a lot more focus on personal brand

4:34

and platforms like LinkedIn, where

4:38

people display their personal brand.

4:40

What I find is very interesting,

4:40

you probably notice this too,

4:43

you're on LinkedIn a bit. Um, I find really interesting

4:44

when people on LinkedIn, you

4:48

know, put personal views up.

4:51

And I respect that. But if they're leaders, then

4:52

their people are also seeing that.

4:56

That's where things can get really tricky.

4:59

Um, and I think, you know, there's

4:59

a generational divide in terms

5:02

of personal brand and what's

5:02

appropriate and having views.

5:06

And I think that's, you know, only

5:06

going to continue to play out.

5:09

And honestly, that

5:09

conversation with David was so good.

5:12

I could chat to him for hours. So if you haven't listened to that one

5:13

yet, definitely go back and have a listen.

5:18

Moving on to number four and in late

5:18

October, I spoke with Julian Mather, who

5:23

came to the podcast for episode 91, and

5:23

he's a super experienced keynote speaker,

5:28

as well as a workshop facilitator. And look, basically, he's

5:30

a jack of all trades.

5:32

You'll just have to listen

5:32

to some of the jobs he's had.

5:35

Now I asked Julian about why it's so

5:35

important to develop our speaking skills

5:39

and some of the lessons he's learned. I really loved when he reminded me that

5:41

our audiences don't want us to fail.

5:46

They want us to succeed. And here's what he said, which I think

5:48

is great advice for everyone to remember.

5:53

Uh, so when I started doing this,

5:53

I was really terrified about audiences.

6:00

I thought standing in front of

6:00

a people that they were there

6:04

almost ready to take me down.

6:06

Like, um, like, like a pack of wolves

6:06

takes down a lone deer out there.

6:11

Uh, and then I started to learn

6:11

and understand how audiences react.

6:17

Um, and audiences want to be directed.

6:22

And what I mean by that

6:22

is that all of our lives.

6:27

24 hours a day. We're busy.

6:30

We have to make decisions. We have to make decisions about our job.

6:33

We have to make decisions, what to buy. We have to think for our children.

6:37

We have to think for

6:37

ourselves and we are tired.

6:40

So if somebody stands in front of

6:40

you and shows you with some sort of

6:48

conviction and confidence that they

6:48

can take over your thinking for be

6:54

it 60 seconds, be it for 60 minutes.

6:58

If you can make that connection and

6:58

build that confidence with people

7:01

early on, people go, Oh, take me.

7:07

Does this mean I don't have to

7:07

think for the next 30 minutes?

7:11

And they are yours. So understand that

7:13

audiences are on your side.

7:17

They want you to be good.

7:21

Okay, moving on to number five.

7:24

And in September for episode 85, I chatted

7:24

with Ross Monaghan, who is a lecturer

7:28

in communication at Deakin University

7:28

in Melbourne, and also the current

7:32

president of the Asia Pacific region of

7:32

the International Association of Business

7:37

Communicators, also known as IABC.

7:40

Now I wanted to talk to Ross because

7:40

in both these roles, he has an

7:43

incredible view of what's happening

7:43

in the world of communications

7:47

and how things are changing. One of the key takeaways from my

7:50

conversation with Ross was the

7:53

need to remember the important role

7:53

professional communicators will

7:56

continue to play in organisations

7:56

of all shapes and sizes, despite AI.

8:01

Let's take a listen.

8:04

So we need to be there, and I

8:04

think, communicators need to be much

8:09

more confident and forceful, um, in

8:09

organisations to let leaders know,

8:16

let the community know, that the

8:16

work that we do is is thoughtful.

8:23

It's there to, uh, to listen to

8:23

key stakeholders, to negotiate,

8:28

to find appropriate ways forward.

8:31

Um, so, you know, look, I think

8:31

we're really, really well placed.

8:35

So I think for communicators

8:35

listening to this, understand that

8:39

you do a really important role.

8:41

I think it's easy to understand that

8:41

if you're working for somebody, uh, you

8:46

know, in emergency management or fire

8:46

and rescue or cancer council saving, um,

8:52

and encouraging people to, you know, not

8:52

do things that are going to give them

8:56

cancer, uh, but the role that we play

8:56

within other or commercial organisations

9:02

and government organisations as well. To make them efficient, to make them,

9:04

uh, sustainable, to help them, uh,

9:11

address the environmental issues.

9:13

You know, things like ESG or CSR, um,

9:13

issues, corporate social responsibility.

9:19

Um, a lot of those issues were, were,

9:19

were driven by communicators back,

9:25

you know, when all of this started. So, you know.

9:29

Get out there, listen to key stakeholders,

9:29

network, talk with other people, share

9:35

experiences with other communicators

9:35

throughout the region, um, to learn

9:40

the latest trends, learn how others

9:40

are dealing with issues really well,

9:45

learn how others have made mistakes.

9:48

Um, and if we do those sort of

9:48

things, you know, we will advance

9:51

both the profession and our

9:51

organisations and society more broadly.

9:56

Okay, number six. And back in August, I was lucky

9:57

to get a peek behind the scenes of

10:01

internal comms at one of Australia's

10:01

largest and most successful

10:04

homegrown businesses, Flight Centre.

10:07

The always lovely Cassandra Thurston

10:07

is the global communications manager

10:11

at Flight Centre Group, and she shed

10:11

light on how they manage their internal

10:15

communications in a business that employs

10:15

more than 15, 000 people across the world.

10:21

I really loved how Cass talked

10:21

about taking a marketing

10:24

mindset to internal comms. Here's what she said.

10:28

We've also introduced what's

10:28

called a marketing mindset to the way

10:31

that we create and send our comms. So this involves really understanding

10:33

who our target audience are, the way

10:36

that they prefer to consume the content,

10:36

and then finding really creative ways

10:41

of getting that messaging across. And as part of that, you know,

10:43

we've seen for a first time the

10:45

focus on collecting and reviewing

10:45

data on a regular basis as well.

10:50

So a couple of years ago, I introduced

10:50

HubSpot to send our internal emails

10:55

across all our brands globally. So for those that know HubSpot, it has

10:57

a fantastic analytics engine powering

11:01

it, and we're making sure that we are

11:01

analysing that data to see how our

11:05

people are consuming the information. So we see how long they're reading

11:07

it for, are they just glancing, are

11:10

they spending a decent amount of time,

11:10

you know, working their way down.

11:14

We can see heat maps of where

11:14

they are clicking, how many times

11:17

they go back and read the email.

11:20

Um, we've also introduced user

11:20

journeys and AB testing too.

11:23

So these are all marketing tools

11:23

that have adapted incredibly to

11:27

our internal communications world.

11:30

And Cass's was one of the most

11:30

highly rated episodes of the year.

11:34

I got so much feedback on that,

11:34

how much they loved that episode.

11:37

So if you haven't listened to

11:37

that, go back and have a chat.

11:39

Cass shares so much

11:39

from behind the scenes.

11:41

It's brilliant. Number seven, and for episode 71, which

11:44

aired in June this year, I interviewed an

11:49

old friend of mine and a colleague, Mandy

11:49

Plumb, on how we can use improv comedy

11:54

skills to enhance our communication. This was such a fun episode.

11:59

If you haven't yet, go back and

11:59

listen to it because Mandy leads an

12:02

improv game with me, and you will

12:02

definitely hear my brain just glide

12:07

to a halt in the middle of that.

12:10

But apart from that, one of my key

12:10

takeaways from this conversation

12:13

was that improv can teach us not

12:13

just to think on our feet quickly,

12:17

but also to listen more deeply.

12:19

Here's how Mandy explained it.

12:22

The second thing that we teach,

12:22

so that was one of the foundational

12:25

things and the other foundational

12:25

thing that we teach is "Yes, And"ing

12:29

-, which is basically collaboration.

12:33

So, uh, listening and responding,

12:33

uh, not bulldozing with your own

12:40

ideas, which is something I used to

12:40

do actually in the corporate world.

12:44

So I believe improv has really helped

12:44

me in my working life because it has

12:52

taught me to listen to other people's

12:52

ideas, and even though I often don't or

12:59

sometimes don't think that maybe that's

12:59

the right way forward, I will work with

13:04

their idea and build with them on it

13:04

and we'll come to a solution together.

13:10

And definitely that chat with

13:10

Mandy made me consider at least doing a

13:13

couple of improv classes in the future. So maybe that's on my list for 2025.

13:19

Okay, number eight and a key skill that

13:19

all professional communicators need to

13:23

develop is making the complex simple.

13:26

And one of the queens of this

13:26

art is Kate Norris, who I

13:29

interviewed for episode 68 in May.

13:32

One of my favorite learnings from

13:32

Kate, which she mentioned in this

13:35

episode, was one graph, one story.

13:38

Take a listen.

13:40

I have a rule, one story, one graph.

13:45

Don't have a graph that tries

13:45

to tell multiple things.

13:49

So we see layering and we see you know

13:49

these clustered bars and stacked bars

13:53

and all of this stuff in one graph and

13:53

you've got to sit there, and you've got

13:57

to have training which I was talking

13:57

about earlier - you've got to have

14:01

training to know how to read that.

14:04

So if you're giving that to someone

14:04

who is not as data literate as

14:08

you which is most people if we're

14:08

working in data, One story one graph

14:14

simplify it until it's so obvious

14:14

that you feel like it's patronising.

14:18

It has to be so stupidly obvious. I have a rule with pie charts because

14:21

we see way too many pie charts.

14:27

Um, a pie chart should only be

14:27

used when you want kind of a vibe.

14:33

Right.

14:33

So you don't need

14:33

to know the exact numbers.

14:36

If you just want to get a

14:36

vibe of this one's bigger,

14:40

this one's smaller, like that. So, I say it's like a hard and fast rule,

14:43

but it's such an ethereal rule as well.

14:48

You want a vibe.

14:49

Yeah, you want a vibe.

14:49

But it works. It does work. Um, and then generally I would say.

14:56

A bar chart, a column graph, and

14:56

a line graph are 95 percent the

15:03

charts that you will use because

15:03

they are understood by everyone.

15:10

And again, it's that thing

15:10

of like, it feels impressive

15:13

to use a more complex graph.

15:15

Like a waterfall graph?

15:17

Like a waterfall, yeah, it's just confusing. And waterfalls are such a classic example,

15:19

like I literally have a statistics degree

15:25

And it took me two years of being in

15:25

finance to properly understand waterfall

15:30

graphs, but I was creating them like

15:30

left, right, and centre for years.

15:35

And it took a few years to, to work out,

15:35

like, no one had, I guess, the confidence

15:42

to really say to me, I don't get it.

15:45

So this is why I say to people, push back. If you don't get it, push back.

15:50

Alright, we're coming in

15:50

towards the finish line now.

15:52

And at number nine for episode 57 in

15:52

March, I got to chat with one of my

15:58

favorite humans on the planet, Prina Shah.

16:00

She's an incredible change and

16:00

leadership coach and consultant

16:03

based in Perth, Australia. And she's also just published her

16:05

first book, Make Work Meaningful,

16:09

which I highly recommend. I loved so many things about this

16:11

conversation, but something that

16:14

really stood out to me was her

16:14

observation that we're relying so

16:18

much on quick communication tools

16:18

like email and teams, but to the

16:21

detriment of getting the message across.

16:24

And this is particularly damaging

16:24

when those quick comms come from

16:27

busy leaders who often forget that

16:27

others don't have the depth of

16:31

knowledge or context that they have. Let's take a listen.

16:36

Yeah, so, oh my gosh,

16:36

okay, miscommunication.

16:40

So often, um, Um, nowadays

16:40

what I'm finding is leaders

16:44

are so, so busy as well. So I've got such compassion for leaders

16:45

and there's a lot on them in terms of

16:49

expectations of how they have to deliver.

16:52

When they are trying to deliver

16:52

messages, it's often quick and

16:55

okay, I've just sent them an email. It's all good.

16:57

We've done it. Or I've sent a message on our,

16:58

you know, on our team's channel.

17:02

Job done. No, not at all.

17:05

Often the missing pieces, and I think

17:05

leaders often forget this, is you,

17:10

the leader, have had this information

17:10

for so long, you've been incubating

17:14

it, you've been dealing with it, and

17:14

you've just dropped this bomb off

17:17

a message, whatever it might be, to

17:17

your team, who've not had any heads up

17:22

about it, they've not had any, I guess,

17:22

conversation about it as well, you know?

17:28

And I think that's one of the big pieces

17:28

that's, uh, A pain point for leaders.

17:33

They are busy, therefore they're relying

17:33

on these channels to quickly communicate.

17:37

Mm. Yeah. I see that a lot.

17:40

So the reliance, I think, on all

17:40

of these wonderful tools and technology

17:44

that we have, I think we need to revisit

17:44

to see how we actually use them to

17:48

our benefit rather than the opposite.

17:50

And rounding out the 10

17:50

lessons is one of the best in the

17:53

consulting biz, Leanne Hughes, who

17:53

published her first book a year ago.

17:57

It's a great read. It's called the two hour workshop

17:58

blueprint, and it's a brilliant

18:02

practical guide to developing a workshop.

18:05

So I wanted to pick Leanne's brains

18:05

on how we can make sure workshops

18:08

actually work and aren't boring.

18:11

So in episode 49 in January, Leanne shared

18:11

a few golden nuggets, including this one.

18:18

There's so many; I wrote a

18:18

whole book about it, so to pick three.

18:21

I think it's. Uh, would be focus on, so I guess my

18:23

mistake when I first started was focusing

18:28

too much on the content versus the actual

18:28

people and the context that they're in.

18:31

And I think the value is, it's

18:31

not about the content anymore.

18:34

I think we really kind of default to that,

18:34

but hello, we've got AI, we've got Google.

18:37

It's not about the content. It's really around. What is the context?

18:41

What do these people need? What result are you trying to drive?

18:44

Um, Mel, you know, my favorite

18:44

word, my number one criteria

18:47

for all workshops is contrast. Like that's the number one question is

18:49

like, how do you keep people engaged?

18:52

And it's all about, well,

18:52

how are you mixing it up?

18:54

Like, um, often too often, it's just

18:54

I mean, again, Leanne, first time

18:58

facilitator, it was just Leanne, slides,

18:58

next slide, next slide, next, next slide.

19:03

Um, how are you weaving in

19:03

stories, activities, getting

19:07

people to stand up, move around. That's how you maintain attention.

19:12

Uh, yeah.

19:14

And so, and I think the third, the

19:14

third topic for me is top of mind today

19:19

really is around how do you generate

19:19

your own excitement for your workshop?

19:22

And how do you set the tone of, um, the

19:22

people are going to find it interesting

19:27

from the moment that you get started. So something I share is to

19:29

engage early and engage often.

19:32

And I think a typical mistake

19:32

is that, um, sometimes we kick

19:36

off in a very traditional way. We'll, we'll step up at the

19:37

front of the room, we'll do

19:40

introduction and housekeeping. And so something I share in my podcast

19:42

is how do you create an unpredictable

19:45

moment that predictably works. So spitting that on its heel, kicking

19:47

off with a story, starting with an

19:49

activity and then moving into...

19:52

into housekeeping and things like that. Just again, create that contrast, but

19:53

also maybe a bit of intrigue as well.

19:57

And it provides a bit of a pattern

19:57

interrupter to gain attention.

20:02

So that's just 10 of many great

20:02

chats and many, many lessons learned

20:07

a big thank you to all the guests

20:07

who agreed to chat on the podcast

20:11

over the last hundred episodes. I am so grateful to each

20:13

and every one of you.

20:15

And just a bit sad that I couldn't

20:15

include all of you in this episode.

20:19

And of course you, my listeners, I

20:19

hope you also got a lot out of those

20:23

conversations and a big thank you again

20:23

for tuning in every week, sharing your

20:27

ideas, your feedback, your ratings,

20:27

and sharing this show with others.

20:31

It simply means the world to me. So as we kick off another 100

20:34

episodes, I'd love to hear from you

20:37

about what you'd like us to cover. So just send me an email or DM

20:39

me with your ideas or topics

20:43

or people we should interview. I would love to hear from you.

20:47

In the meantime, as always, keep

20:47

doing amazing things and bye for now.