0:00

Hey Wiremonkeys , welcome to another episode of

0:02

let's Talk Cabling . This episode

0:05

we're tackling on how to test

0:07

those extended distances for Ethernet

0:09

cabling .

0:11

Welcome to let's Talk Cabling

0:14

, the award-winning

0:16

podcast where knowledge is power

0:18

and the low voltage industry

0:21

connects . Hosted by Chuck

0:23

Bowser , rcdd . We're

0:25

here to empower installers , designers

0:27

and industry pros with the tips

0:30

, stories and best practices

0:32

you need to stay ahead . From

0:34

copper to fiber , standards to

0:36

innovation , this is the show

0:39

that keeps you plugged into success

0:41

. So grab your tools , turn

0:43

up the volume and let's talk

0:45

cabling .

0:46

Welcome to the show where we tackle the tough questions

0:48

submitted by technicians , installers

0:51

, apprentices , project managers

0:53

, estimators , customers . We are

0:55

connecting at the human level so that we

0:57

can connect the world . If you're watching

0:59

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call with me after hours , of course , or

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you can even buy me a cup of coffee . You

1:33

can even go on Amazon and buy let's Talk

1:35

Cabling shirts . That's kind of new

1:37

. I haven't really been pushing it out there , but it's out there

1:39

. So I was

1:41

at the Bixie Conference last week , got lots of great

1:44

show content ideas , lots of potential

1:46

shows coming up . So stay tuned for

1:48

lots of great content . But one

1:50

of the things that seemed to seem

1:52

to be a theme was extended

1:55

distances for Ethernet cabling

1:57

. Now there's lots of different ways you can do this . You

1:59

know there's manufacturers that do extended

2:01

distances with balanced twisted pair copper

2:03

cabling . Some

2:08

will do with hybrid fiber , but that leaves the technician in the field

2:10

in the dark because they're not used to having to

2:12

test those kind of distances . And when they hook up

2:14

a regular certifier to it and they hit test

2:17

and it's extended distances , guess

2:19

what's going to happen ? Yeah

2:22

, it's going to fail . So I got that . Thinking

2:24

about that . And of course you know I can't go through

2:26

the exhibit hall without stopping by one

2:28

of my favorite booths , the AEM booth , and

2:30

talking to my friend Steve Cowles to

2:33

say , hey , man , we need to talk about

2:35

this . He's like , absolutely so

2:37

. Welcome back to the show , mr Steve Cowles

2:39

. How are you doing , my friend ?

2:51

I'm doing great , chuck . Thanks for having me back . It was good seeing you at

2:53

Bixie . And yeah , you're right , extended distance Ethernet cabling was

2:55

all the rage . A lot of the sessions , the breakout sessions

2:57

.

2:57

It's really starting to take on . Yeah , it seemed like there

3:00

must have been I don't know four

3:02

or maybe even five masterclasses

3:06

, slash speeches

3:08

, slash information on

3:10

extended distances , and that's

3:12

probably one of the biggest questions I get on

3:15

the show , and I do have a show on extended

3:17

distances . It's just not quite being

3:19

done yet . I've already recorded with the key

3:21

manufacturer , recorded something with Fluke , and

3:23

I just got to record the third part of it , but this

3:26

is so important . I was like man , I've got to get this

3:28

information out there faster to help

3:30

that technician in the field . So

3:32

since the last time you've been on the show which , by the way , it's

3:35

been way too long I've

3:37

gained a few followers . So why don't you give

3:39

the audience a quick introduction on who

3:42

you are and your experience and who

3:44

you work ?

3:44

for All right . So my name is

3:47

Steve Cowles and I've

3:49

been in the industry . Oh

3:52

geez , next year is going to be 40 years , chuck

3:54

. I've been around a

3:56

while , an old timer like Chuck

3:58

. I am the product manager

4:00

and I manage the technical support team at

4:02

AEM Precision Cable Test . The

4:04

last 25 years of

4:06

my career has been focused on test

4:08

equipment , from certification

4:11

test equipment to your

4:13

basic cable locating , tones and

4:15

probes , dsl testing

4:18

, fiber testing , you name it . So

4:21

I've been heavily involved in testing

4:23

for the largest part of my career

4:26

.

4:28

So you know a little bit about testing Just a little

4:30

yeah . And I hate the

4:32

competitive nature of me . I'll

4:35

always be ahead of you in years of experience , always . You'll

4:37

never catch up with me . No , you'll get closer

4:40

, you'll get closer , but

4:42

you'll never catch up . I'm at 42

4:45

. So I'm at 42 years , 42 and

4:47

a half years experience right now . 42

4:49

and a half . Oof Gosh , I'm getting old

4:51

. Oh man , I hate when that happens

4:53

. Anyways , the industry

4:56

stands for Ethernet . You and I both know permanent link 90

4:58

meters , channel 100 meters those

5:00

are drilled into our heads , right ? Yeah

5:02

, what are some of the main reasons that you have

5:04

seen in dealing with technicians

5:07

in the field and stuff and network designers ? Why

5:09

are they pushing for these extended distances ?

5:12

So the Ethernet

5:15

PHY , the physical layer

5:17

chipset that is driving

5:19

the Ethernet signal . They've improved

5:21

these over time and

5:24

many of them not all

5:26

, but many of them are now capable of going

5:28

beyond that 100 meter , the

5:30

100 meter . When we first started

5:32

doing structured cabling it was put

5:34

in mostly because Ethernet

5:36

at 100 meters . If you started to go beyond that you'd

5:39

start to get collisions on the network . But

5:41

now the technology has improved and we're

5:43

able to go farther on

5:46

the network . But now the technology's improved

5:48

and we're able to go farther and you have situations where

5:50

maybe you need to put a network outlet , telecommunications

5:53

outlet , someplace that's beyond

5:55

that 100 meter distance from your

5:57

nearest closet right . So

5:59

you've got to come up with solutions

6:02

. You mentioned hybrid powered fiber . That's one

6:04

option . You can get power and data . The

6:06

fiber will go a lot further . But if you just

6:08

wanted to deploy copper , can you go

6:10

a little further ? On regular Cat6A

6:13

, maybe Standards allow

6:15

you 10% on tests . So when you test

6:17

a cable , if it's 10%

6:19

higher than the limit , as

6:22

long as it's within that range , it's still going to pass . But

6:30

the extended distance that we're talking about , these people are talking about running 150

6:33

to 200 meters in many cases , which your regular Cat6A isn't going to get there

6:35

.

6:35

I think the biggest driver , or maybe the biggest

6:38

eye-opener that really

6:40

I think kind of drove , the

6:42

whole extended distances was

6:44

cameras , Right

6:47

, so a company would get this job

6:49

and this , this customer would want

6:51

cameras all the way out in the parking lot . That was well

6:53

beyond the 328

6:55

feet or a hundred meters . And

6:58

since cameras don't really I mean most cameras only

7:00

use like a hundred megabit and

7:02

you probably , you know Some

7:05

are 10 megabits , yeah , exactly , and

7:07

you and I both know the less

7:10

bandwidth that you need

7:12

on a copper cable .

7:12

The further the cable can be , the more bandwidth , the shorter

7:15

the cable's got to be , exactly .

7:16

And so , since we're doing 1 gig

7:19

, 2.5 gig , 5 gig , 10 gig

7:21

, some scenarios , 40 gig

7:23

over copper .

7:25

You get shorter and shorter .

7:26

That's why we're limited .

7:28

That's why we're limited to the 100 meters , right ? Actually

7:30

, cat 8 is even shorter than that . Cat

7:32

8 is what ? 90 something feet , which

7:35

is 60 meters , or something

7:37

like that . I don't remember the rough numbers . You do the math yeah

7:39

exactly , take 92

7:43

feet divided by 3.28 . You'll figure

7:46

out how many meters . Yes , and

7:48

I think that's kind of what the

7:50

need for that kind of opened up the industry's

7:52

eyes . And I was in one

7:55

of the classes at Big Seed last week and

7:57

for the life of me I can't remember who it was and

8:00

they were talking about extended distances and they

8:02

had ran a poll to their customers

8:05

and they said , okay , of all the needs

8:07

that you know for doing extended

8:09

distances , what is the maximum

8:12

amount of length that you think you need to do ? And

8:14

there were a few that were said 100 meters

8:16

, a few that said 200 meters , but

8:18

the vast majority of the respondents were 150

8:22

meters or below right . The

8:24

respondents were 150 meters or below right . And so

8:26

the whole gizza thing was looking for an off-the-shelf

8:28

balanced

8:33

, twisted-pair copper cable system that the installer is already familiar with , terminating and testing

8:35

and all that stuff , right . So once

8:37

we go beyond that , right beyond that 100 meters

8:39

, what

8:42

are the specific parameters that become more problematic

8:44

at those longer distances ?

8:46

So first , right out of the gate , is insertion

8:48

loss . Now

8:50

, insertion loss is you

8:53

measure the signal at the beginning of the cable , measure the signal

8:55

at the end of the cable and the difference

8:57

between those two is how much signal you've lost . If

8:59

you've got too much insertion loss , the

9:02

signal is too weak when it gets to the far end and that

9:04

starts to cause problems . So

9:07

now insertion

9:09

loss will also impact

9:11

your SNR , your signal to noise

9:13

ratio on your cable . Because

9:16

if your signal is too weak when it gets

9:18

that far end and the noise , the noise

9:20

is going to be the noise , the noise is going to be the noise

9:22

, and

9:25

if your signal is not strong enough to overcome the noise , that means you've got low SNR , which is

9:27

that's another test we could talk about running on this cable

9:29

. In addition to the RF certification

9:31

is

9:37

, you can run an SNR test on a cable to see how it performs at various

9:40

speeds . So you know

9:42

, insertion loss is one , dc

9:47

resistance is another one , especially when it comes to handling power

9:49

over Ethernet . So the higher the resistance value , the lower

9:51

your power delivery is .

9:52

Would that be DCRU ?

9:54

I think , that's DC resistance unbalanced

9:56

. So there's DC resistance , there's the loop

9:59

resistance which we all had drilled into our

10:01

heads to pass the test 25 ohms loop resistance

10:03

per pair , but the

10:05

DC resistance unbalanced and

10:07

this is a critical test that you should be running if

10:09

you're deploying cables for PoE . This

10:12

will compare the resistance in the

10:14

pair , so each conductor in the pair , and

10:16

it compares each pair to every

10:18

other pair in all combinations and

10:21

there's a tolerance that you're allowed

10:23

with that DC resistance

10:26

unbalance and if you exceed

10:28

that it will fail . Consult

10:31

your test equipment manufacturer when you're running that

10:33

, because some testers not

10:35

ours the same six-second

10:38

test is going to give you those results

10:40

anyway , but some testers

10:42

when you add that it starts to add 10

10:44

, 15 seconds to the test time . So you

10:47

need to be sure you know if you're planning

10:50

to test for that . Take that into account for how

10:52

much time you're going to plan for the job .

10:54

Right , I want to expand on one thing real quickly , because

10:56

I don't ever want to assume

10:58

that everybody understands everything we're talking

11:01

about . And you've mentioned signal to noise ratio . I

11:03

know what it is , you know what it is , but

11:05

there might be a technician out there who doesn't understand

11:07

signal-to-noise ratio in the way that I always explain

11:09

it in class . Imagine it's a

11:11

Friday night , you got your wingman

11:13

with you , you go into the local club to try

11:15

to go dancing and

11:25

the music is boom , ba-choo , boom environment . You go to a church , you try to talk to

11:27

your buddy with the same voice , it's going to seem

11:29

like the guy's screaming . That's signal-to-noise

11:31

ratio , right . So

11:34

in the club the noise

11:36

is so loud that it's kind of hard to hear the

11:39

message Exactly . But in the church

11:41

, where everybody's being quiet , it doesn't have to be a church , it can be a library

11:44

, right , where everybody's quiet , you

11:46

don't . You know there's a big difference between

11:48

the noise that's in the room , the ambient noise

11:50

, and the volume . So that's what signal-to-noise ratio

11:52

is and that's why it really is critical

11:55

for cabling . One of the things you didn't

11:57

mention is how does extended

11:59

distances affect near and crosstalk

12:02

it ?

12:03

doesn't Extended

12:06

distance and near and crosstalk . So the near and crosstalk you're measuring

12:09

at the near end , so the distance it's a signal transmitted

12:11

at the near end that you're measuring . It's not really there . But

12:13

one other parameter that does get

12:15

influenced by this extended distance cabling

12:17

becomes critical is return loss . Because

12:21

that return loss

12:23

essentially it's reflected signal . And

12:25

when you get a reflected signal two things happen

12:28

it reduces the signal going to the far

12:30

end , but it also

12:32

is sending a mixed signal back to

12:34

your transmitter end which

12:36

can confuse the

12:39

Ethernet chipset , the PHY . And

12:41

this is where it comes into play , where

12:49

some PHYs will handle this better than others , because as you get

12:51

out further and further distances , depending on the filter types

12:54

in that Ethernet chipset , it may or may not be able to handle that . So that's

12:56

something that is a consideration when you're

12:58

doing that extended distance cabling .

13:00

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or wherever you listen .

13:42

So you know , when you pick up your regular off the shelf

13:45

certifier right , it

13:47

comes already preloaded by

13:50

the manufacturer all of

13:52

the information found in the standards for which

13:54

, for the acceptable levels for near

13:57

cross talk , insertion loss , signal

13:59

, noise ratio , all that stuff , right yeah

14:01

. What does a technician

14:03

need to understand about customized

14:06

settings for extended distances ? Do

14:09

they go to you and get

14:11

it from your database or do they need to go into

14:13

the tester to set up for extended

14:16

distances ? How does that all work when they're testing extended

14:18

distances ?

14:19

That's a great question . So there's a couple things you need

14:21

to do . Most technicians already

14:23

know that when they're using a specific cable

14:25

they need to go into in

14:27

the tester settings . When you're setting up a project

14:30

, you choose the cable and the

14:32

importance of choosing the cables . First , you have a record

14:34

for the manufacturer that you're testing their cable

14:36

. But also that MVP

14:39

, nominal velocity of propagation value

14:41

, which is essentially it's it's expressed in a percentage

14:44

of the speed of light . I like to call it the speed

14:46

limit of the copper , because

14:48

it tells you how fast that signal travels

14:50

down the copper , which that

14:53

impacts your length measurement . So you want that

14:55

to be accurate . So you want to choose that cable . But

14:58

what happens ? The mistake people make when

15:00

it comes to testing extended distance cabling is

15:03

they do that but they leave

15:05

the test limit set at

15:07

a TIA , cat 6A

15:10

or 5E or a channel permanent

15:12

link , whatever they're doing , and

15:14

they don't change the test limit . So that

15:17

100 meters for channel , 90

15:19

meters for permanent link , is in those limits

15:22

and if they exceed that it's going to fail if

15:24

they exceed it by 10% . So when you

15:27

go in to set your limits you need to set

15:29

your limit for

15:31

what you're testing . So it's

15:33

not going to be a TIA or an ISO

15:35

limit . It's going to be a vendor-specific limit

15:37

. So in our tester

15:39

you go in where the limits are and you scroll down

15:41

past the TIA and there's a vendor folder

15:44

. Then you select the vendor folder and you'll see multiple

15:46

different manufacturers in there

15:48

who each have their test limits . The manufacturers

15:51

know the cabling they build the test limits

15:53

. The test limits are based on

15:55

the TIA limits but

15:57

there's some subtle changes in there

15:59

. Length and insertion loss are typically

16:02

two of the parameters that they look

16:04

at when they modify these , so they allow

16:06

additional length on

16:08

these . If you exceed the

16:12

other parameters , that's when the cable will

16:14

fail . So it's still testing all the same things

16:16

that you're testing in

16:18

a TIA or an ISO limit , but

16:22

it looks at them a little differently

16:24

and it doesn't hold your feet to the fire

16:27

if your cable is too long . It's really

16:29

looking more at the performance which

16:31

the manufacturers , the construction of

16:33

these cables and I'm sure you're going to get into talking about

16:35

that a little bit but the construction of these

16:38

cables is different from

16:40

our traditional cables , especially the wire

16:42

gauge , which is what makes a big difference

16:44

.

16:45

Right . So let me ask

16:47

you this is actually a question that just kind

16:49

of popped in my head Is

16:51

it better or worse

16:53

to use a shielded cable

16:55

for extended distances or an unshielded cable

16:57

for extended distances ?

17:00

So the use of the unshielded or

17:02

the shielded , whether it's extended

17:04

distance or our standard cabling , really depends

17:06

on the environment . You

17:08

know where is this going to be installed

17:11

? Are you going

17:13

to be subject to a lot

17:15

of external noise ? Maybe

17:18

you should think about a shielded cable . And if you

17:20

do put a shielded cable in , call Chuck and make sure you're doing

17:22

your bonding and grounding correctly . Call Chuck and make sure you're

17:24

doing your bonding and grounding correctly

17:26

. We've both been out on job sites me

17:28

recently where it

17:32

wasn't done properly and it can create problems

17:34

.

17:35

Yeah , absolutely . You know a lot of . One of the biggest

17:37

arguments that I see on social

17:39

media on low voltage groups is

17:42

cabling and the quality cabling , cabling

17:44

and the quality cabling . And

17:46

I understand you know somebody who's just starting off you know

17:48

with their new communications

17:50

cabling company that money's tight

17:53

. You know you may not be able to go out and buy the biggest and best

17:55

you know category-rated cable , so

18:03

they go with the cheaper ones and even some of the low-quality ones

18:05

. Is there a role that somebody

18:07

or not a role ? But I mean , however I phrase

18:09

this , is it better

18:11

to select a good quality category

18:14

rated cable Cat6 , cat6a as

18:17

opposed to a one that's

18:19

a lesser brand , when you're trying

18:21

to get reliable performance

18:23

beyond that 100 meters ?

18:25

Yeah , it absolutely is . So there's

18:27

a couple things that come into play

18:29

there . First off , we'll just talk about the

18:31

cable , the cable itself . If you use

18:34

a lower quality cable , the copper can have

18:36

impurities in it . You

18:38

may even see I've seen this out there

18:40

copper clad aluminum out there

18:42

in the field , and you talked about DC resistance unbalance

18:45

. Those two things right there impurities

18:47

in the copper or a copper clad aluminum will

18:49

screw up your DC resistance unbalance

18:51

. That's going to cause problems , and not just

18:53

with the POE . It'll cause signaling problems . The

18:56

other thing to think about is

18:59

you want to make sure you have a cable

19:01

that is designed to work with the

19:04

jacks and the panels that

19:06

you're installing . You just

19:08

start throwing stuff together . Yes , in

19:10

theory , because we have standards , everything's supposed

19:12

to be interoperable and it'll work

19:15

. But manufacturers

19:17

design things . They design the cable to work

19:19

with specific jacks and

19:22

vice versa . For a reason they're

19:24

compatible , they're optimized

19:27

and if you mix and match

19:29

whatever you want , the performance

19:31

won't be there , and part of that has to do

19:34

with the impedance

19:36

changes . When you start mixing

19:38

this stuff up , you can

19:40

cause return loss problems , and we just talked about return

19:43

loss being one of the factors .

19:45

Yeah , yeah , it's funny you just mentioned because I was

19:47

going to use that as an example right ? So

19:49

when you look at balanced twisted pair cabling , it

19:51

has a characteristic impedance of 100

19:54

ohms plus or minus 5%

19:57

, so the cable literally might be 99

20:00

ohms , right ? The connector also

20:02

has a characteristic impedance of 100

20:04

ohms plus or minus 5% , so

20:07

it might be 100.5 ohms

20:09

. The cable is 99.5 ohms

20:11

, the connector is 100.5 ohms . There's

20:13

a tiny bit of a difference there . That difference

20:16

is what caused that energy to get reflected back

20:18

towards the transmitter . That's what return loss

20:20

is . So manufacturers , what they'll do

20:22

is they will tweak to match their cables

20:24

to their connectors . That's why it's always

20:26

best to get cabling from

20:28

somebody who has a working relationship

20:30

with . Either buy from a company

20:33

that does both cable and connectivity products together

20:35

, which there are not that many of them out there , or

20:37

a connectivity manufacturer who works

20:39

with a cable manufacturer , and they fine tune the

20:41

parts together , because the closer those two numbers are to each

20:43

other , the more energy goes through

20:45

that transmission point and the better

20:47

performing it's going to be .

20:50

And those R&D engineers put

20:52

a ton of work into

20:55

figuring this stuff out , and

20:58

with good reason . They're

21:00

not just writing down a

21:02

jack design on a napkin and going , oh , let's

21:05

go build this . They do a

21:07

lot of study , they do a lot of

21:09

interoperability studies and

21:11

it's worth

21:13

it to spend the money and do it right .

21:15

While the idea might start out as a drawing

21:18

on a napkin yes , as soon as

21:20

fall . We both know people who started

21:22

that way , exactly , exactly

21:24

. It may start there , but sooner or later

21:26

it starts getting into some heavy thought

21:29

and calculations , stuff that's well

21:31

above beyond any RCDD level like

21:33

you or me that ever deal with , right , yeah

21:35

?

21:35

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too . All are welcome to learn

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22:33

So what are some best practices installers can use

22:35

when they're putting in the cable for extended

22:38

distance to make sure they still meet those requirements ?

22:41

So the best practices are really going to be the same

22:43

as your best practices in

22:46

your standards-based

22:48

cabling , your 100-meter cabling . You

22:51

know . Follow your best practices

22:53

for your cable support for your termination

22:56

. Maintain your pair , twist to

22:58

the point of termination like

23:00

you're supposed to . Don't

23:03

pull the cable with too much pulling

23:05

force . Don't tie it to the bumper of your F-150

23:07

. We know people who've done that . You

23:10

know it's . You know , follow

23:13

the guidelines . And I say guidelines . You

23:15

know the standards aren't laws , right

23:17

, they're guidelines , recommendations , and

23:21

I think at some point we're going to see some

23:23

of this stuff in the standards

23:26

the extended distance stuff .

23:27

This is how it always works , right . The industry starts

23:29

doing something and then

23:31

the standards group kind of looks at that

23:33

and they kind of sit back a little bit and then they've

23:36

got to wait for a time when they revise the standards

23:38

and then eventually gets put it back . The standards

23:40

always seem to run three

23:43

years behind what we're doing in the field before

23:46

they adopt stuff , and that's just because of the process . It's not

23:48

because they're old boomers

23:50

and they're resistant to change , it's

23:52

just , first off , the standards don't get revised every

23:54

month , they only get revised once every five

23:57

, three years , five years .

23:58

Yeah .

24:00

And they look at all the new stuff that's come out . Let

24:02

me ask you this , because one of the things I hear quite often

24:04

is , especially

24:12

in those groups , people you know start talking about extended distance

24:14

. Somebody will always say , oh , just get a , get a repeater , get a power

24:16

extender , right ? Um , how do you feel about that , as opposed to

24:18

going with an extended distance ?

24:20

I , I , I prefer the

24:22

extended distance cabling because you've

24:25

got your permanent link , your

24:28

cable is installed . It's adding

24:31

a repeater , adds another point

24:33

of failure into the equation

24:35

. It adds an expense into

24:37

the equation and if you're using

24:40

repeaters you have to start thinking about

24:42

how many repeaters am I

24:44

going through from point A to point B

24:46

? Right , I

24:49

mean chances . If you're using a one-off repeater

24:51

somewhere , you're not going to worry too much about

24:53

that , right , and you have to have power

24:55

for

24:57

that repeater . So maybe

25:00

it's powered by PoE , but

25:02

all things to think about . But to

25:04

me you're adding another failure point

25:07

, whereas if you just pull

25:09

the extended distance cabling , you're

25:12

better off .

25:12

Yeah , the big thing for me is there's

25:15

an old acronym G-I-G-O garbage in

25:18

, garbage out . And

25:20

when you're putting a repeater on something that's , you

25:23

know , 80 meters down the line , it's

25:25

not just amplifying the signal

25:28

, it's also amplifying the

25:30

EMI that that cable's picked up over

25:32

that distance . Now it might be a tiny bit Right

25:35

, might be a lot , it just depends on the

25:37

environment . Yeah , so I mean and

25:39

don't get me wrong it is an option . It

25:42

is an option , but I don't think it's going to be a reliable option

25:44

. It's trying to use a solid piece of cable

25:46

with extended distances that has been tested by

25:48

engineers and

25:51

cable certifiers like you guys to

25:53

make sure that it works . Let's

25:57

shift and talk about PoE , because we're putting PoE

25:59

over a lot of these cables . If

26:01

somebody's got an extended distance and they've got PoE

26:03

on it , how does that affect the cable

26:05

testing ?

26:07

So I mentioned before

26:09

when we were talking about DC resistance unbalanced . Your

26:11

cable tester will be capable of

26:13

measuring this . That's

26:15

going to come into play . Your loop resistance

26:17

and your DC resistance unbalanced are going to come into play

26:21

. Typically

26:23

, if you're going to take a Cat 5E or 6 or

26:25

6A and you're going to run it out to 150

26:28

or 200 meters , you're going to fail on resistance

26:30

. It's going to have too much resistance

26:32

, what the manufacturers are doing

26:35

and if you've got too much resistance your

26:37

power delivery is going to be a problem . You have to think

26:39

about the I squared R formula . You take the current

26:42

squared times

26:45

, the resistance , and that

26:47

tells you how much power you're going to lose along

26:49

the length of that cable . So the higher the resistance , the

26:52

less power delivery you get at the end . What

26:54

the manufacturers of the extended distance cabling are doing

26:56

is they're using a heavier gauge . So our typical Cat6A

26:59

is a 23 gauge . They're using

27:01

in most cases a 22 gauge on

27:04

this extended distance cabling . So it's

27:06

a heavier copper . It's got lower

27:08

resistance per foot than

27:11

the 23 gauge . So it's

27:13

going to help you with that power delivery

27:15

and in turn with the heat dissipation

27:17

that you get from POE as well , because

27:20

you've got a heavier gauge wire .

27:23

So let me ask you , because you work for a cable testing

27:25

manufacturer , right ? What advancements

27:28

have you guys or I'm not

27:30

saying just you guys specifically , but when I say you guys I mean

27:33

the testing industry right ? What

27:35

advancement does test manufacturers

27:37

, what are they looking at to make their cable

27:39

testers easier

27:42

to do testing for extended distance more effectively

27:45

?

27:45

So , first off , getting those limits , working

27:48

with the manufacturers to get those test limits and

27:50

get the cabling database in there

27:52

for the physical RF test , and

27:56

for the most part that's what the certification tester

27:58

manufacturers do . We've taken it a step beyond

28:00

where we do . I mentioned the signal to

28:02

noise ratio testing so you can test up

28:04

to 10 gigabits with SNR , so

28:06

you can take that extended distance cabling , run

28:09

an SNR test on it and see how

28:11

it's performing . You do that on an active network

28:13

, so you've got other cables around it that have network

28:15

traffic so you can really see what that alien

28:18

crosstalk is doing to the cable

28:20

. The other thing is being

28:22

able to test at greater distances . Now

28:24

we think of 150 to 200

28:26

meters as , as a quote , unquote long

28:28

haul cable , but it's not really . It's

28:30

it's extended distance . But single

28:33

pair ethernet is something else . That's that's out there

28:35

and they're talking right now

28:37

it's a thousand meters . They're talking about going beyond a thousand

28:40

meters , right ? So what ? What

28:42

you need to do is find out how far can your test

28:45

equipment test . We can go up to 2000

28:47

meters on ours , which

28:51

the testers are going to be required . The

28:53

ones that are going to develop single pair ethernet are going to have to

28:55

go out to at least 1500 meters and

28:58

allow the units to still communicate . So

29:01

that's one of the things is see how far the tester

29:04

can go . So manufacturers

29:06

are pushing the limits For SPE

29:09

, single-pair Ethernet . In fact you're going to have to test

29:11

lower frequencies . We're used to higher frequency

29:13

stuff in the world we live

29:15

in , but the single-pair Ethernet is

29:17

going to be a lower frequency , lower speed , type cable

29:20

, longer distance and still deliver power

29:22

. Great advice .

29:23

So you and I were already talking about how

29:25

, at some point , the

29:27

industry standards will catch up with what we're doing in

29:29

the field , hopefully sooner rather

29:31

than later . But what advice would

29:33

you give the installer in the field

29:35

who has to work

29:38

with and deal with standards that are currently

29:40

written now , but yet the demands

29:43

of the customers who maybe would want to go beyond

29:45

these extended distances ?

29:47

So what I would say is

29:49

consult with the

29:51

manufacturers of the extended distance cabling

29:53

during the planning

29:55

process , Because

29:57

you're being asked by a customer to do something that's

30:00

outside the scope of the standards . And you and I've had this

30:02

conversation where the standards aren't law

30:04

. They're a guideline that you should

30:06

follow , for

30:08

good reasons . But as

30:11

technology changes , as the needs

30:13

of our industry

30:15

change , the standards will have

30:17

to adopt . So we've

30:20

all been on job sites where you've had to do

30:22

things outside the normal scope of the standards

30:24

just because of the environment or the necessity

30:27

of that particular job . So

30:29

my recommendation would be make

30:31

sure that you engage with the

30:34

manufacturer of the extended distance cabling

30:36

and the consultant who's

30:39

planning the project and

30:41

any of the other parties involved to say , look

30:43

, here's what the standards say , but

30:46

here's what you're scoping out for us . We

30:48

can't do this if we stay within the standards

30:51

and here's what we recommend .

30:52

Yeah , educating the customer and

30:54

the consultant is absolutely a great thing to do

30:57

, and you

31:00

mentioned that the standards are

31:02

guidelines and they are voluntary . Don't get

31:04

me wrong . But if you enter

31:06

into a contract with the customer

31:08

and it stipulates in the contract that

31:11

your work will meet and or exceed the

31:13

standards and you haven't educated

31:15

the customer , saying , look , this extended distance

31:17

is an outlier , it's not within the standards

31:20

, and get them to sign off and document

31:23

, document , document , right , that's right . Get them to

31:25

sign off that they understand that those

31:27

particular runs are going to be extended distances and

31:29

they're going to really fall outside of the

31:31

ANSI standards , and get them to educate

31:34

and sign off in that head time . That'll save

31:36

you headaches down the long run .

31:37

Absolutely , and it's you know . Communication

31:40

is key . You know , I spoke at a master class

31:42

at the Bixby conference last

31:44

week and one of the sections I was

31:46

talking about was the project planning phase

31:48

and all the specifications

31:51

, and one of the key

31:53

points in my presentation was

31:56

the communication up front

31:58

. The planning meetings , the communication

32:01

make sure that all the parties involved

32:03

know what the plan

32:05

is and if there's anything that's going to deviate

32:07

, everybody needs to be aware of it and have signed off

32:10

on it .

32:10

Steve , you probably heard me say this a million times . I

32:13

know my listeners sure have . Just

32:15

because we work in the communications industry doesn't

32:18

mean we communicate , or

32:20

at least we don't communicate well sometimes . True

32:23

, true , true , true . Well

32:29

, thanks for coming on and shedding some light on extended distances and maybe

32:31

helping a few technicians out there . So if somebody wants to get in

32:33

touch with you or AEM to find out more about some information

32:36

on extended distances or your testers , how do they get a hold

32:38

?

32:38

of you . So I can be reached at

32:40

stevecowles , at

32:42

aem-testcom

32:44

, and our website is

32:46

aem-testcom

32:48

, and if you go to the website and click the little hamburger

32:51

button in the upper right corner , you'll get a menu of all the

32:53

things on the site . We

32:55

have a blog called

32:58

Straight Talk Blog and in that Straight Talk

33:00

Blog we have an article that talks

33:02

about extended distance cabling . So you

33:04

can go there and read that , and there's a lot of

33:06

other articles in there as well . And

33:08

don't forget Tech Talk with Steve . Tech Talk

33:11

with Steve , that's right . That's right . We're doing

33:13

that this year . We're trying something new . We're doing

33:15

it every other month this year . So

33:17

we've got one coming up in March

33:20

, I think .

33:22

There I go , setting the pace that nobody else can keep up

33:24

with .

33:27

You know I tried the weekly thing in the

33:29

beginning . Try two . Try two a

33:31

week . I know , I know you

33:33

are .

33:37

Yeah , it's a good thing . I love talking about

33:39

cabling . That's all I got to say . Yeah

33:42

, thanks for coming

33:44

on , steve . I appreciate you all right good seeing you

33:46

, chuck .

33:47

Thanks for listening to let's talk

33:49

cabling , the award-winning podcast

33:51

where knowledge is power and

33:53

the low voltage industry connects

33:56

. If you enjoyed today's episode

33:58

, don't forget to subscribe , leave

34:00

a review and share it with your crew

34:02

. Got questions or ideas for the

34:04

show ? Chuck wants to hear from you . Stay

34:07

connected , stay informed and always

34:09

aim for excellence . Until next

34:12

time , keep those cables clean

34:14

, your standards high and your

34:16

future bright . Let's

34:18

Talk Cabling empowering

34:20

the industry , one connection

34:22

at a time .