0:00

Hi, I'm I'm Dr. Robbins and

0:02

welcome to to death, and The

0:04

between. Gene Trebeck and Allison Martin are

0:06

very dear friends and this

0:08

episode proves that. I felt

0:10

like I was their girlfriend

0:12

in an amazing conversation about

0:14

life and death, how to

0:16

deal with grief and loss,

0:18

what friendship looks like over

0:20

time, how to support one

0:22

another through challenging times, and

0:24

how a course in miracles,

0:26

and if you haven't heard

0:28

of a course in heard of

0:30

a going to in schooling in

0:32

this episode, to get a little schooling in

0:34

this their lives. course in So

0:36

if you don't know their lives. So

0:38

is the co -host of Jean

0:40

is the and she was the

0:42

wife of the famous Alex

0:44

Trebek from Jeopardy, who we

0:46

all knew and and loved. And

0:49

Alison Martin is is is

0:51

her co -host on Inside Wink

0:53

and has been an actor

0:55

for over for years. So So

0:57

I think you are going

0:59

to to love this And

1:01

with that, here's today's episode

1:03

of life, death, and and the

1:05

between. So

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No, no, no, no, no, no,

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no. No, no. Honestly, when I

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have to do like four of

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premium wireless for $15 a month.

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equivalent to $15 per month. New

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customers on first three-month plan only.

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Taxes and fees extra. Speed slower

2:47

above 40 gigabytes see details. Hello,

2:50

hi Amy. I'm so excited you're

2:52

here. First of all, because you

2:54

had reached out to me, and

2:57

I actually had had you on

2:59

my list to reach out to,

3:01

I don't know who recommended you,

3:04

but it was on my list,

3:06

and so I'm so excited to

3:09

have this conversation today, and I

3:11

love when that synchronicity happens. because

3:13

I'm like, okay, I put it

3:16

out there and we'll see. So

3:18

I want to hear from both

3:20

of you, your journeys, especially kind

3:23

of given that you're in LA

3:25

and you've both been in the

3:27

public space in some capacity, the

3:30

public eye, what has been your

3:32

journey into spirituality? Oh, that's interesting

3:34

question. Do you want to go?

3:37

I'm going to think a little

3:39

moment here. Oh, so I have

3:42

to go? Yes. Okay. Yeah,

3:46

Jean gets the thing, but also... That's what

3:48

you're on the spot, but have that. I

3:50

mean, I can... I just need to like

3:52

think, that's a great question. Yeah, it's a

3:54

really good question. Really good question. I mean,

3:56

I think... for me, I've

3:58

always been very engaged

4:00

before I even knew

4:02

that this was called

4:05

like you know Seth you know,

4:07

and all those all those

4:09

things those all those type

4:11

of things when I

4:13

was very young, I

4:15

found very engaging. And

4:17

then I was raised

4:19

raised in a Roman Catholic, know,

4:21

my father was agnostic

4:24

and my mother wasn't really

4:26

I would go with but I

4:28

would go which were my neighbors

4:30

girls, which and I was neighbors,

4:32

to church and it at that

4:34

point. it at then And then,

4:36

um, When I came out here

4:39

and I met Gene, we we we

4:41

met through a thing

4:43

called Miracles. Yeah, I wanted

4:45

to ask about that Yeah,

4:47

I Yeah, and that ask about

4:50

that too. over 20 years

4:52

ago now like 20, And it

4:54

was very, that really solidified

4:56

where I thought I

4:58

should be focusing. And And

5:00

then we joined the of

5:02

Mind. Church, or I joined

5:05

Gene me to join. join. now

5:07

I feel like we do is we

5:09

do is sort of keep

5:11

reading partially because of of

5:13

our podcast. our podcast. a lot

5:15

and met so many people

5:17

that I feel so that in

5:19

it. so bathed in it that feel

5:21

it's really incorporated into into

5:24

my heart. So that's my heart.

5:26

I think I sort of my journey.

5:28

You've had of my journey. I

5:30

think more a more, I

5:32

think, more intensive, right? Or more.

5:35

I'll say say that I think

5:37

when you have something happen

5:39

to you as a younger

5:41

person person the norm. out for

5:43

me it and for the death

5:46

of my brother. He was my I

5:48

was he was 19 I

5:50

lost Allison lost young.

5:52

father away when she

5:54

was like when she was like 22 me,

5:56

going back, I

5:59

think sometimes You, you,

6:01

your soul, your psyche is

6:03

dealing with something traumatic and

6:06

you are looking outside the

6:08

norm for an answer. And

6:11

I too was raised Catholic.

6:13

I always had an affinity

6:16

for Jesus, but not, didn't

6:18

really like how he was

6:21

presented and his teachings were

6:23

presented as through the Catholic

6:25

Church, although I think the

6:28

Catholic Church had a lot

6:30

of wonderful things. I'm not

6:33

dissing it, but I just

6:35

felt, I don't know about

6:38

all the guilt and that

6:40

were born of sin. I

6:43

actually felt the opposite. And

6:45

so my brother passes away

6:48

and it really shook up

6:50

my life a lot. I

6:52

think I just reached out

6:55

so many. I was looking,

6:57

I was definitely in that

7:00

seeking mode and then probably

7:02

like in my late 30s

7:05

I found a course of

7:07

miracles and it really rang

7:10

true to me along with

7:12

another book called Conversations with

7:15

God. That was another great

7:17

book that It wasn't really

7:20

religious, it's definitely spiritual. So

7:22

I just felt that that

7:24

was a healing bomb from

7:27

my mind and my heart.

7:29

And I just kept that.

7:32

For those who don't know,

7:34

it's crazy that for the,

7:37

as long as I've had

7:39

this podcast, I've never had

7:42

someone on to talk about

7:44

a course in miracles. Because

7:47

I feel like in many

7:49

ways that's for many people

7:52

was sort of the pinnacle

7:54

of like a spiritual opening

7:56

or a connection to something

7:59

bigger than themselves. Can you

8:01

tell people what? that is

8:04

and how it's, I know

8:06

there's, there's been some kind

8:09

of negativity that's sometimes associated

8:11

with it because I think

8:14

there have been people who

8:16

have almost turned the teachings

8:19

into like a cult like

8:21

following. But, yeah. But can

8:24

you speak a little bit

8:26

to like what, what that

8:28

is? Because it's a psychologist

8:31

who started it. You, me.

8:33

So it's a channeled book

8:36

channeled by Jesus through a

8:38

psychiatrist that she worked at

8:41

Columbia University. I believe it

8:43

was like around 1970, maybe

8:46

late 60s, early 70s. And

8:48

it's basically a a

8:52

teaching of your mind.

8:54

It's how the mind

8:56

has been so conditioned

8:58

to be fearful to

9:00

be thinking lack to

9:02

be thinking separate from

9:04

each other. And through

9:06

a series of everyday

9:08

lessons, Jesus is, and

9:10

when I say Jesus,

9:13

It's really it's not the

9:15

you know like gee like

9:18

a man that had moccasins

9:20

and walk I mean it

9:23

that is I do feel

9:25

the consciousness but it's more

9:27

of a realm it's a

9:30

it's an art of consciousness

9:32

that's pure love so that's

9:35

what his the essence of

9:37

his soul came here to

9:40

teach and he continues that

9:42

through the course of miracles.

9:45

So it's a lesson every

9:47

day he gives a lesson

9:50

and it's just mind training.

9:52

We've been so conditioned to

9:55

think like like I said

9:57

about fear and lack and

10:01

And he's saying, no, there's

10:03

another way to think. way

10:05

to And I'll say that.

10:08

one of his teachings is his

10:10

teachings is that... that

10:12

the outer world is

10:14

an effect of

10:16

our thinking, both collectively

10:18

and individually. So we're seeing

10:20

a a lot of

10:22

polarization. right now, and

10:24

that is the is the actually

10:27

being exposed being

10:29

can choose again we we can

10:31

choose love. so we can

10:33

choose the projections,

10:35

the projections, our projections

10:38

reality in which

10:40

we then

10:42

see and experience.

10:44

see an experience. Right. So

10:46

is trying to show

10:48

us how the see the

10:51

world differently. and

10:54

it's it's it's it can

10:56

be very challenging, you know,

10:58

when you see homeless people,

11:00

when when, when you know and an easy

11:02

You know, like easy thing, late

11:04

you're late for an appointment,

11:06

you know, all that fear

11:09

comes up, ah, I'm not

11:11

enough, this is awful, is you

11:13

know, you know so for for

11:15

instance if or if we've we've had

11:17

forgiveness lessons you know if

11:19

you know if someone you someone some

11:21

money like you lent them

11:23

money and they didn't pay

11:26

you back and about

11:28

forgiveness back like it's

11:30

about forgiveness know,

11:32

that's what this world really

11:34

this is that balm of

11:36

letting go. go non

11:38

being non-judgment

11:40

and it being non-judgment

11:43

isn't not not

11:45

recognizing that what's going on

11:47

isn't helpful. you

11:49

know, but it's not

11:52

blaming and realizing, okay, okay,

11:54

there's something. I need to I

11:56

need to see more love in this

11:58

world. That That was good. That was

12:00

a good explanation. That was a

12:03

really nice. How are you guys

12:05

friends? You have a very lovely

12:07

dynamic. I

12:11

don't know, we met, we really

12:13

literally met in a, literally met

12:15

in a course and miracles and

12:17

then we just make each other

12:20

laugh so hard and we're on

12:22

the same, we're in the same

12:24

place so often. True. That it

12:26

just is very, very easy. Like

12:28

we just, now we've been hanging

12:31

out, we see each other, we

12:33

talk every day, like we don't

12:35

have to fill each other in.

12:37

Like that's sort of the good

12:40

thing. Like if something's happening, Gene

12:42

will know and so vice versa.

12:44

That's great. Like not to have

12:46

to be like, what have you

12:49

been up to the past two

12:51

months? Like, you know, having someone

12:53

that's right, walking right with you.

12:55

And there have been times that

12:57

I'd been like afraid or worried

13:00

and Gene will remind me. that,

13:02

you know, I have a choice

13:04

in that. I have a choice

13:06

in feeling that. And really, what

13:09

is the truth? And Allison does

13:11

that for me, because I certainly

13:13

have my days, my times, my

13:15

moments, you know, it depends how

13:17

long I want to stay, but

13:20

she'll course correct me. Yeah. Because,

13:22

you know, course of merit. Yeah.

13:24

Yeah. And I know, can you

13:26

say more about... like

13:29

how this information came to,

13:31

was her name Barbara? Is

13:33

her name Barbara? Helen? Shuckman.

13:35

And what's interesting is there

13:37

was there was some conflict

13:39

in the psychology department. Oh

13:41

I know, I remember. And

13:43

they could not figure out

13:46

how to move forward and

13:48

she started to this automatic

13:50

writing started happening and she

13:52

didn't want to tell me

13:54

one because she was concerned

13:56

that didn't make sense for

13:58

where she was positioned in

14:00

terms of society like what

14:03

he was happening. but just

14:05

sorry I just want to

14:07

add one little thing but

14:09

before she was downloaded this

14:11

this voice was coming through

14:13

her she so as to

14:15

what Allison said she was

14:17

having this conflict with another

14:20

with a person in her

14:22

office and she apparently said

14:24

something like to the effect

14:26

of there must be another

14:28

way yeah there must be

14:30

another way to deal with

14:32

this that's not so angst

14:34

and Oh, and God, I

14:37

wish you, you know, just

14:39

so she, um, that was

14:41

the impetus and I think

14:43

her psyche was, you know,

14:45

I don't know how it

14:47

works in the unseen side

14:49

of life, but the consciousness

14:51

of Jesus was able to.

14:54

find its way in,

14:56

and because she was

14:59

such a smart woman,

15:01

you know, I think

15:03

that that energy of

15:05

love, known as Jesus,

15:07

had to move through

15:09

her filter as a

15:11

human. So she knew

15:14

words, her dialogue was

15:16

very intellectual. But they

15:18

wanted this document not

15:20

to be something airy-fairy.

15:22

It was... Really for

15:24

someone that is a

15:26

very thought-provoking person, someone

15:29

that is just not

15:31

going to be spoon-fed,

15:33

any, another, you know,

15:35

here, believe this. And

15:37

this is really telling

15:39

you to drop all

15:41

your beliefs of separation

15:44

and fear and come

15:46

back to your holiness,

15:48

holiness in both. whole

15:51

as in W-H-O-L-L-E and

15:53

then also your divinity.

15:55

What does this look

15:57

like for you in

15:59

everyday life? do you

16:01

live this? Because I

16:03

think these are certainly

16:05

ideals, but then how

16:07

do they get translated

16:09

into a life while

16:11

lived? That's a great

16:13

question. And I think

16:15

it's just really getting

16:17

out of the mind

16:19

so much that is

16:21

always analyzing. and critiquing

16:23

yourself and what's going

16:25

on. And just take

16:27

a moment and recognize

16:29

that, okay, it may

16:31

not be the way

16:33

I like it to

16:36

be, the way I

16:38

want it to be,

16:40

but this I'm passing

16:42

through, you know, and

16:44

I and my thoughts

16:46

do have power. My

16:48

thoughts have a creative

16:50

effect. And I think

16:52

too that you, I

16:54

know for me, I

16:56

will, stuff happens. You

16:58

know, stuff happens. And

17:00

we say good stuff,

17:02

bad stuff, you know,

17:04

like we begin to

17:06

label that stuff. And

17:08

just stuff happens. And

17:10

I think for me,

17:12

a course of miracles

17:14

reminds me, stay in

17:16

the now. be

17:19

present right now. I was just

17:21

telling Jean about something that a

17:23

friend of mine is going through

17:25

and then I went, but I'm

17:27

not there yet. We're not there

17:30

yet. Like there's no need to

17:32

sort of, you know, be so

17:34

into it about like thinking, what's

17:36

that going to be? Oh, that's

17:38

a thing. We're not there. I'm

17:40

right here right now. I can

17:43

be in control of my emotions

17:45

and my thoughts right now. and

17:48

I can have faith and belief

17:50

that love and my compassion and

17:52

that person's love and compassion will

17:54

enlighten us. the way to proceed.

17:56

Like it doesn't have to be,

17:59

I don't have to solve it.

18:01

It's not a problem yet. And

18:03

I think sometimes like for my

18:05

brain that that that's always what

18:07

I felt like I felt a

18:10

lot of fear about stuff. I

18:12

think just because my dad was

18:14

taken so young, you know, and

18:16

being an only child and how

18:19

old were you when your dad?

18:21

It's 22, but my father had

18:23

such an interesting background that I

18:25

always felt aware of abandonment. He

18:27

was left on a doorstep, never

18:30

knew his parents. And so there

18:32

was always a sense of like,

18:34

ooh. he was left like someone

18:36

didn't want their child like that

18:38

was kind of freaked me out

18:41

it was so upsetting but he

18:43

he managed to have this amazing

18:45

life he want to pull it

18:47

sir he was great and um

18:51

And yet I know that like

18:53

the generational wound was abandonment fear

18:55

of abandonment and then at a

18:57

very young age he was just

18:59

literally taken very quickly kind of

19:01

like Chris your brother there was

19:03

no lead up there was no

19:05

and so I've always had that

19:07

sort of unhealed fear and so

19:09

I'm really trying to work on

19:11

the fact that you know I'm

19:14

going to know what's mine to

19:16

do and I know that if

19:18

I move in the world with

19:20

love and compassion, that's really what

19:22

I can do. That's a positive

19:24

step I can take. So I

19:26

think for me, that's how it's

19:28

helped me in my life, of

19:30

course, in miracles, right? I mean,

19:32

yeah, yeah. And I want to

19:34

add to that, that Another

19:37

thing that gets

19:39

really highlighted when

19:41

you're doing the

19:43

course is that

19:45

if you're feeling

19:48

off bad, guilty,

19:50

shame, you have

19:52

sided with, you

19:54

have not sided

19:56

with love. body

19:58

is the barometer

20:00

for telling you,

20:02

oh, I feel

20:05

sad today, I

20:07

feel off. I

20:09

must be, think

20:11

there's something, what

20:13

am I thinking?

20:15

I'm thinking, I'm

20:17

not, I'm not

20:19

healthy. I'm thinking,

20:22

my child isn't safe. And

20:25

it's because it's not happening.

20:27

And so your mind now

20:29

is engaged and thinking about

20:31

the worst case scenario. So

20:34

to Allison's point, it's to

20:36

come back and choose, you

20:38

know what? My

20:41

child is great. My child

20:43

is safe. I might not

20:45

know where my child is

20:47

right now, but I know

20:49

that love is right where

20:51

my child is and my

20:53

child is safe. You know,

20:55

like it's really leaning into

20:57

trusting. Yeah, and trusting that

20:59

love is present. And that

21:01

you're, and then I think

21:04

the biggest, the biggest effect

21:06

that a course of miracles

21:08

had on me was the,

21:10

was the idea it's either

21:12

love or a call for

21:14

love. So you can look

21:16

at someone, my eldest child

21:18

was bullied in seventh and

21:20

eighth grade and it was

21:22

really hard on them, really,

21:24

really hard. And when I

21:27

was reading a course in

21:29

miracles, I said, you know,

21:31

I'm going to say this

21:33

and maybe this will help.

21:35

It's either love or a

21:37

call for love. And the

21:39

person that was bullying, we

21:41

talked it through and realized

21:43

my kid didn't have to

21:45

be a victim, that that

21:48

person was calling, had a

21:50

call for love. Now, that

21:52

doesn't mean that this book

21:54

condones all behavior, that if

21:56

that if something is happening,

21:58

that is, um, hurtful, abusive,

22:00

it doesn't come to know

22:02

that. It's not to turn

22:04

a blind eye, but it's

22:06

sort of to empower yourself

22:08

and realize, oh, okay, that's

22:11

what's happening for that person

22:13

and now I have a

22:15

choice of what I'm going

22:17

to do with it, that

22:19

it really kind of removes

22:21

the victimhood in a way.

22:23

Does that make sense? Yeah.

22:25

Yeah, I mean, it seems

22:27

it's interesting because it doesn't

22:29

seem so different probably from

22:31

what Helen, who I thought

22:34

was Barbara, learned and taught

22:36

and worked in psychology to

22:38

help people to do, right?

22:40

It's like how not to

22:42

step into those roles of

22:44

being the victim. Right. No.

22:46

And then we go down

22:48

the whole rabbit hole of

22:50

you don't want to victim

22:52

blame and shame and all

22:55

of that. But but it

22:57

sounds like this is really

22:59

about where can you take

23:01

responsibility for the choices that

23:03

you're making in your life

23:05

and recognizing that every single

23:07

every single thing is a

23:09

choice on some level of

23:11

how you're responding to what's

23:13

happening to you. Yes. Well

23:15

said, very good. That, oh

23:18

there you go. And now

23:20

that's in the course and

23:22

miracles. So Jean, how did

23:24

you, obviously you went through

23:26

a very very public recently

23:28

loss, your husband Alex Trebeck,

23:30

who everybody knew and loved

23:32

dearly, was the host for,

23:34

what was it like 30?

23:37

8, 37, 38 years. Years

23:39

of jeopardy. Long time, yeah.

23:42

How did that, how did

23:44

this framework for you help

23:46

you through that time? Because

23:48

he was, how, he wasn't

23:50

sick for 20 months, was

23:53

it 20 months or? It

23:55

was like 20 months, yeah.

23:57

about a year and a

23:59

half. You know, I just,

24:01

I did the Course in

24:04

Miracles as not every day.

24:06

When I say I do

24:08

it, I just read the

24:10

little lesson. And it just

24:12

kind of kept me on

24:15

track. And there were times

24:17

that both Alex and I

24:19

felt so overwhelmed with. what

24:21

to do? Should he try

24:23

this trial drug? Should he

24:26

go to Israel and meet

24:28

this doctor? Should he go

24:30

to Florida and meet this

24:32

doctor? Should he try this

24:34

tea? Should he smoke this

24:37

weed? Should he drink those

24:39

mushrooms? I mean, he had

24:41

everything. Right. And when you

24:43

have like everything available to

24:46

you, right? How do you

24:48

even know? How many people

24:50

reached out and said, You

24:52

know, my brother-in-law had pancreatic

24:54

cancer and it was, in

24:57

a way, it was so

24:59

beautiful. So many people wanted

25:01

to help Alex and have

25:03

the magic bullet that would,

25:05

you know, heal his condition.

25:08

But if you're talking about

25:10

the course of miracles, or

25:12

any, I would say, any

25:14

spiritual, you know, if it's

25:16

anything that just brings you

25:19

back to love and that

25:21

you are first a spiritual

25:23

person moving through your soul,

25:25

you are consciousness, and then,

25:27

you know, this this realm

25:30

happens, this earthly experience happens,

25:32

and it can be super

25:34

hard. And No one here's

25:36

the thing I have a

25:38

friend that says you know

25:41

what planet Earth you get

25:43

born it's you have a

25:45

hundred percent mortality rate like

25:47

right you come here it's

25:49

like well you've got a

25:52

50 50 you are yeah

25:54

no one none of us

25:56

make it out here you

25:58

know it's there a

26:01

clock, we don't know

26:03

that clock for any

26:06

of us. And I

26:08

think, you know, when

26:10

you know, wow, like

26:12

I knew, especially that

26:14

last six months, wow,

26:17

he is really slowly,

26:19

his fight is diminishing.

26:21

He's really letting, he's

26:23

like, no more, no

26:25

more tests, no more

26:28

this. you

26:30

become so aware and am

26:32

full of gratitude for every

26:34

moment. I just I remember

26:36

him and I having soup

26:39

one night together and he

26:41

says to me genie this

26:43

is the best chicken soup

26:45

and it was a little

26:48

little cup and we sat

26:50

in the bedroom and had

26:52

this and I thought yeah

26:55

this this soup came out

26:57

pretty good. You

26:59

know, you just become

27:01

so focused on on

27:03

life as it is

27:06

right now. And he,

27:08

it's, you know, any,

27:10

again, any script, if

27:12

it's, if you're someone

27:14

that likes the Bible

27:16

or, or you, love

27:19

gardening or you have a

27:21

dear friend anything that just

27:23

helps you feel loved and

27:25

connected is really a beautiful

27:28

buoy to help you get

27:30

through something so you know

27:32

I did have the Course

27:34

in Miracles but you know

27:36

again I say if it's

27:38

that's not your your your

27:41

thing there are so many

27:43

paths to love so so

27:45

that just happens to be

27:47

something that I that really

27:49

worked for me and I

27:51

think to you know it

27:54

well let me ask this

27:56

question do you feel like

27:58

it helped you through your

28:00

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28:02

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28:22

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28:24

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28:26

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28:30

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medically qualify for prescription medications.

28:46

Compatted medications are not reviewed

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by the FDA for safety,

28:50

F2C, or quality. My dad

28:52

works in B2B marketing. He

28:54

came by my school for

28:56

career day and said he

28:59

was a big roaz man.

29:01

Then he told everyone how

29:03

much he loved calculating his

29:05

return on ad spend. My

29:07

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29:09

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29:25

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29:27

conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place

29:29

to be, to be. Yes.

29:31

I would definitely say it

29:33

has. And again, just a

29:35

reminder that. You know, life

29:38

is continuous, even when we

29:40

no longer have our bodies.

29:42

And I know, Alex, you

29:44

know, it was something really,

29:46

it was very blatantly obvious

29:48

to me when he took

29:50

his last breath. I knew,

29:53

I was like, oh, he's

29:55

still in the bed, like,

29:57

I could feel his energy.

29:59

And the body is just

30:01

like that heavy, like a

30:03

heavy garment. Yeah. Do I

30:06

feel Alex all the time?

30:08

No. there have been signs?

30:10

Yes. And when I call

30:12

on him to help me

30:14

with something, somehow, some way,

30:16

he, you know, I just

30:19

know that I have this

30:21

huge guardian angel that can

30:23

help, you know, smooth path

30:25

and I don't feel alone.

30:27

So I know he's that

30:29

light, that love of Alex

30:32

is still expanding and it's

30:34

engaged in whatever he is,

30:36

you know, I don't know,

30:38

it's not like I've had

30:40

a near-death experience, but I

30:42

do not feel like this

30:45

physical life is the end.

30:47

I think there's been way

30:49

too much scientific proof that

30:51

that life moves on. This

30:53

is not the end. What

30:57

was it like for

30:59

you to be in

31:01

your grief when the

31:03

world was grieving as

31:05

well? Like he was

31:07

so beloved. Yeah, it

31:10

was distracting a little

31:12

bit, having so much,

31:14

and in a way

31:16

that was good, because

31:18

I had a lot

31:20

of things on my

31:22

plate, but You

31:26

know, it was, it was

31:28

like, oh my God, he.

31:31

people adored this man and

31:33

you know I can sometimes

31:36

he really got on my

31:38

nerves. Me nuts! I'd be

31:40

like you're like he was

31:43

just like like it was

31:45

just my husband. You talking

31:47

about Dan you know he

31:50

some you know you love

31:52

him beyond anything and yet

31:55

sometimes can you go take

31:57

a long walk or you

31:59

know like yeah we totally

32:02

had moments like that. it

32:04

was just like, there was

32:07

so many feelings Amy. One

32:09

part was like, wow, I

32:11

really did share Alex with

32:14

so many people. And I

32:16

don't know, like I'm still,

32:19

there's a part of me

32:21

that likes to keep things

32:23

kind of private. And yet.

32:27

I did feel like he

32:29

belonged to everybody and so

32:31

just acknowledging his the love

32:33

that people had for him

32:35

and having to just process

32:37

my own feelings as just

32:40

my my husband father of

32:42

my children. Did you think

32:44

that what you were sharing

32:46

of Alex was Was his

32:48

persona or his persona or

32:50

did you think it was

32:53

truthfully him? Like how did

32:55

you think it was both?

32:57

That's a great question. Yeah.

32:59

Do you also do interviews

33:01

of people? Yeah. I'm just

33:03

always interested or people in

33:06

general and we can't wait

33:08

and she believes you. I'm

33:10

so excited for it. You

33:12

think it was like both?

33:14

I do think it was

33:16

both. I do think it

33:19

was both. I mean except

33:21

the the the sexual

33:23

intimacy. That clearly was

33:26

just Alex and me.

33:28

Right. But and I

33:30

think I actually think

33:32

thank goodness that that

33:35

as a married, you

33:37

know, I understand like

33:39

that sexual intimacy, Allison

33:41

and I were talking

33:44

just how that is

33:46

special and unique to

33:48

a relationship. But

33:51

then that sort of that

33:53

faded, you know, relationship when

33:55

he got sick and everything.

33:57

And then, you know, you

33:59

just come. this universal

34:01

feeling like, wow, you know,

34:03

we're here one-on-one and then

34:05

it kind of explodes into

34:07

like a universal love. And

34:10

I just hear something that

34:12

I witnessed of you. I

34:14

think that, um, I love

34:16

you guys together. Can we

34:18

please be honest? Like I

34:21

want to get in this

34:23

little twosum here. Yeah, right

34:25

here. You could be right

34:27

here. I think that witnessing

34:29

and just being a part

34:31

of your household sometimes, there

34:34

was a definite intimacy that

34:36

you two had just passing

34:38

in the kitchen. And I

34:40

don't know what shared in

34:42

some level with like when

34:44

you were like in a

34:47

public way. like or maybe

34:49

like on the cruise ships

34:51

or something there was a

34:53

real yeah do you know

34:55

what I mean I don't

34:57

mean to like I'm just

35:00

me no it sounds like

35:02

there was like an energy

35:04

between them that existed just

35:06

husband and wife and like

35:08

she's in the kitchen and

35:10

he come up and say

35:13

uh genie oh and give

35:15

her like a little squeeze

35:17

or something and you realized

35:19

Oh, they're, they just, they're

35:21

just married people. And like,

35:23

just like me and my,

35:26

like, you know, and you

35:28

realize, oh, like, there are

35:30

intimate parts of a relationship,

35:32

no matter how close you

35:34

are with whoever. Yeah. That

35:36

is sort of private too.

35:39

Do you know? I agree.

35:41

And it's separate from. a

35:44

sexual act. It is very intimate.

35:47

The intimacy is not necessarily that.

35:49

And it's just knowing of another

35:51

human person. Yes. Because certainly the

35:53

people saw the man that hoped

35:56

show Jeopardy! and they fell in

35:58

love with that personality. And they

36:00

couldn't seem to really fall in

36:02

love with anybody else in the

36:05

same way. Yeah, that's so true.

36:07

And then, you know, as a

36:09

husband and wife, you get both

36:11

sides, you get the... the glamour

36:14

side plus you get the human

36:16

side which isn't always so so

36:18

glamorous and it's just what it

36:20

is so Are there any thank

36:23

you so much for being so

36:25

willing and open to share that

36:27

too? I appreciate you know. I

36:29

know you're so you're such like

36:32

I think sometimes even me as

36:34

a therapist I'm always like treading

36:36

a little bit carefully because like

36:39

I could go down a rabbit

36:41

hole pretty far with people. I

36:43

have friends that'll say to me.

36:45

Wait, how did you get in

36:48

such a deep conversation with so

36:50

and so at the, you know,

36:52

at the party? And I'm like,

36:54

I don't know, it's just like

36:57

how I, I don't know how

36:59

to roll deeper than that, but

37:01

I also want to be really

37:03

respectful because I know sometimes if

37:06

you're in the public eye, you

37:08

know, there are things that get

37:10

shared or get shared in certain

37:12

ways that you just like aren't

37:15

necessarily useful or helpful or helpful

37:17

or feel intrusive. So I really

37:19

appreciate how you shared that it

37:21

was. I mean, I think it

37:24

shows the depth of your love

37:26

for one another. And I'm curious

37:28

from both of you, if there's

37:30

any specific signs that you've experienced

37:33

from your brother, from your dad,

37:35

from Alex, over time, I mean,

37:37

you've alluded to them, but any

37:39

that really stand out for you,

37:42

that you were like, holy cow,

37:44

I cannot believe this. Yeah,

37:49

I mean, I think I think for me, I

37:51

think I'm constantly in conversation with people that have

37:53

passed I see how they,

37:55

you know, we talked

37:57

to you on our podcast,

38:00

Lona Byrne, and she

38:02

talks to Guardian Angels. Oh,

38:04

yeah. I, that was,

38:06

that was another, I have

38:08

not had, historically, I'd

38:11

never canceled podcasts, but that

38:13

was another one that

38:15

I had to push because

38:17

she's amazing. till you,

38:19

wait till you talk with

38:22

her. And you know,

38:24

she's like, you need to

38:26

ask, open and ask.

38:28

And I have to say,

38:30

that is so right.

38:32

It's just like anything you

38:35

have to ask. And

38:37

I mean, there have been

38:39

so many times that I

38:43

mean, things have happened,

38:45

synchronicities. I believe my father

38:47

helped me at a

38:49

time in New York when

38:51

I was attacked that

38:54

one time. I believe that

38:56

that was him. And

38:59

it was very, very powerful.

39:02

I just feel like it's

39:04

the truth. So yes, I,

39:06

do you, right? Oh yeah.

39:08

I don't get like, haven't

39:10

seen them walking around the

39:12

house. It's not right. No

39:14

apparitions. Me either. I don't

39:16

get that either. Unfortunately, although

39:18

probably fortunately for my kids,

39:20

because I don't know how

39:22

good they feel about that

39:24

one. It's

39:26

already bad enough that when the lights

39:28

blink, I'm like, hi grandma. And they're

39:30

like, all right, she's Yeah,

39:37

I think maybe not so

39:39

much from my brother, although I've

39:41

been told my brother, when

39:43

I've had like energy readings or

39:45

things like that, like, oh,

39:47

your brother is close. I

39:50

think Alex helped me find

39:53

this new home that I'm living

39:55

in. I think Alex is

39:57

just really helping to I

40:00

feel like it's it's energy

40:02

everything is like an energetic

40:04

I feel like an energy

40:06

tries to kind of he's

40:09

his energy tries of

40:11

kind of persuade or

40:13

kind of clear certainly helped

40:15

me with. helped all

40:17

the financial, all the

40:20

financial yeah I mean, was

40:22

like an octopus, like like estates

40:24

and and all of that. all

40:26

of So, that. So that helped me

40:28

and will continue because it's

40:30

like because language to me

40:32

anymore. to me. Not as much, as much,

40:34

but it's still like. it's like trial

40:36

by fire, right? You don't have

40:39

a choice have a choice bake a

40:41

cake then, to bake a cake then. Go look at...

40:43

He was with a lawyer. Yeah,

40:45

I sound like that. I

40:47

love the lawyer that I have, but

40:49

it's but it's just, it's like you're just, it's

40:51

like your dentist. Right, right. You know You know it's

40:53

good for you and you'll feel, your

40:55

teeth will feel real clean when you

40:57

leave, no one is like, sign me

40:59

up. but no one is new sign me

41:01

have put in many dental offices

41:03

does help help a little bit put

41:05

in many dental offices does

41:08

help help a I just bit, so.

41:10

Yeah. when I do ask Alex

41:12

for help. ask Alex for help,

41:14

of opens up opens up.

41:17

And I honestly to Allison's

41:19

point, I I ask, maybe

41:21

not Maybe not every day,

41:23

but I'm to say four days out

41:25

of the week, I will either

41:27

say. bless this Bless this day,

41:29

please help me communicate. well

41:31

in this well in this regard.

41:34

Please help me to find

41:36

a great gift for Allison, you

41:38

know, whatever it is. it is,

41:40

you know, know, I, Do you have

41:42

you you ever been

41:44

in those those rooms?

41:46

rooms? No, no, but I know I

41:48

but I So I

41:50

you go in an escape room, you

41:52

are allowed room, you

41:54

are allowed You're allowed allowed

41:56

And it's And it's

41:58

only like what is like

42:00

every five every ten minutes

42:02

you're allowed you're allowed to

42:05

say help I need a

42:07

clue and I am constantly

42:09

mmm we need help we

42:11

need a clue and if

42:13

I'm with my daughter she's

42:16

like I'm trying to figure

42:18

it out on your own

42:20

I'm like no why should

42:22

I if I can get

42:25

help? Exactly right I'm totally

42:27

so I do ask my

42:29

angels I ask Alex to

42:31

just help me understand something

42:33

help another person and you

42:36

know but seeing a red

42:38

truck as Alex drove a

42:40

cute like a beautiful maroon

42:42

ram 1500 pickup trucks so

42:44

so not not something common

42:47

in LA I would imagine

42:49

no yeah not the color

42:51

and stuff like that and

42:53

I I know he's helping

42:55

you know I've asked him

42:58

like oh you know Emily

43:00

would love a boyfriend that's

43:02

our beautiful daughter and she's

43:04

with this really wonderful man

43:07

right now so I don't

43:09

know where it'll go but

43:11

really he's great he's wonderful

43:13

and we I love both

43:15

of them so that's nice

43:18

you know well but I

43:20

do think on the other

43:22

side they're willing to help

43:24

you just gotta ask yeah

43:26

And my friend who's an

43:29

atheist said, how do you

43:31

know? Like, what's that? And

43:33

I said, all right, no

43:35

one knows, true, not true,

43:37

real, right? But it makes

43:40

me feel better and good.

43:42

So, like, why not? How

43:44

do we know this is

43:46

real? Right. Yeah. Exactly. I

43:49

mean, it's like, what is

43:51

the nature of reality? Right?

43:53

Yeah. How do we know

43:55

any of it is true

43:57

or real or right or?

44:00

agree with you. Yeah, there's

44:02

just so many, we've talked

44:04

about this, so many scientists

44:07

that think, you know, this

44:09

is just a, like another,

44:11

like algorithm in a way

44:13

that we're viewing and what

44:15

is, what is really reality

44:17

and what is consciousness? And

44:19

scientists don't know what consciousness

44:22

is. is the

44:24

idea of God to me.

44:26

And you know, and that

44:28

is, I really believe there

44:30

is a benevolent, creative, loving

44:33

force that. That we can

44:35

use. That we are. That

44:37

we are. Yes. Right. And

44:40

if, I mean, I think

44:42

if more people could find

44:44

that wherever they can find

44:46

it, the world would be

44:49

a very different place than

44:51

it is. I agree. I

44:53

think there's so much fear

44:56

right now. Yeah. Because we

44:58

all really just try to

45:00

think more loving thoughts than

45:02

fear and resentment and you

45:05

know, I mean, it's very

45:07

powerful and I know on

45:09

the days that, you know,

45:12

when I'm in that rhythm,

45:14

I do feel just the

45:16

flow of my life seems

45:18

lighter. Totally. It feels like

45:21

you're not swimming against the

45:23

current. Well, yes. Exactly. So

45:25

last question, even though I

45:28

could like pour a glass

45:30

of wine and hang out

45:32

for a little longer, but

45:35

I'm supposed to do that

45:37

with girlfriends. Right, there's the

45:39

perfect spot for me. Tell

45:41

us about your amazing podcast

45:44

and how that came to

45:46

be this insight. Do you

45:48

hear me? Is that the

45:51

voice of God? Do you

45:53

hear that? No, what happened?

45:55

We didn't hear like a

45:57

double voice. Oh, that's cool.

46:00

mic, but we're going to

46:02

go with the voice of

46:04

God. It's much more interesting

46:07

and fun. Tell us what,

46:09

how the Inside Wink podcast

46:11

got started and what it

46:13

means to both of you.

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LinkedIn, the place to be. To

47:23

be. Okay

47:28

well I was working

47:30

on a film documentary

47:32

with my friend Ike

47:34

and it just it

47:36

it fell apart we

47:38

just our schedules just

47:40

couldn't get it together

47:42

but we did get

47:45

some beautiful footage on

47:47

forgiveness and we collected

47:49

interviews from actors from

47:51

from spiritual leaders, from

47:53

all walks of life.

47:55

You know, what does

47:57

forgiveness mean to you?

47:59

in the can and

48:01

I said to Allison

48:03

they're so beautiful. I

48:05

wish there was some

48:07

way that we could

48:09

make like finish this

48:12

documentary and Allison said

48:14

yeah I think you

48:16

said why don't we

48:18

have like a podcast

48:20

and have I mean

48:22

a website and kind

48:24

of introduce little

48:26

snippets of these words of

48:28

wisdom, these interviews of wisdom

48:30

on forgiveness. And also Allison

48:32

came up with the title

48:34

Inside Wing. And so we

48:36

did this, we did the

48:38

website for a long time,

48:40

like four years. And it

48:42

was like a boat that

48:45

carried us through many events

48:47

of our lives. You know,

48:49

it started in 2018 and

48:51

it went through until 2022,

48:53

I think, and it was,

48:55

you know, it was really

48:57

interesting the way it kept,

48:59

like during COVID, during Alex,

49:01

my child came out as

49:03

non-binary during that, like a

49:05

lot of things that it

49:07

kept us sort of connected

49:09

and also really remembering. So

49:11

it really was a, like

49:13

a little life raft that

49:15

I could, I really, it

49:17

was very profound to have

49:19

it during that time. And

49:21

then that ran its course

49:23

and we decided we would

49:25

love, we loved the part

49:27

we loved was talking to

49:29

people and being curious about

49:31

people and sharing good things.

49:33

And so we started doing

49:36

the podcast and it has

49:38

been Like amazing even now

49:40

like we're talking to you

49:42

meeting you we'll hang up

49:44

with you and be like

49:46

well that was so great

49:48

We feel so elated. I

49:50

know I feel this some

49:52

similarly like every time there's

49:54

times where You know, it's

49:56

like oh, it's such a

49:58

I mean it's an expect

50:00

time, it's energy, scheduling, all

50:02

that. I put a lot

50:04

of time and thought into

50:06

my guests and their questions

50:08

I want to ask them

50:10

and I'm like, oh, is

50:12

it worth it? Is anyone

50:14

even listening out there? And

50:16

then I have the experience

50:18

of being in connection and

50:20

communication with just literally a

50:22

mate, every person I talk

50:25

to is amazing. And I

50:27

love. sharing their stories and

50:29

hearing their stories and bringing

50:31

that to the world and

50:33

then I'm like, okay. Yeah,

50:35

and I think, you know,

50:37

the listening part, like who's

50:39

listening, who's not listening, and

50:41

then the other day I

50:43

was thinking, even by talking

50:45

like this, I believe that

50:47

we're elevating a frequency somehow.

50:49

connection and goodness, just meeting

50:51

you right now, you know?

50:53

And so I don't know,

50:55

like, I think that's really

50:57

important and it really makes

50:59

me, I always feel better,

51:01

like, not that I felt

51:03

bad, but I always feel

51:05

like, wow, like after these

51:07

meetings. Me too, I feel

51:09

totally like alive. Yeah, yeah,

51:11

yeah, me too. And it's

51:13

always a reminder every time

51:16

I get on. I'm like,

51:18

oh my gosh, I love

51:20

doing this. Yeah, I love.

51:22

I love people. Mm-hmm. And

51:24

people are great. People are,

51:26

people are love, you know,

51:28

and it's like, when you

51:30

connect and you share, and

51:32

it is like, we are

51:34

different. And how great. Like,

51:36

I make chicken this way.

51:38

You make chicken that way.

51:40

I don't make chicken. Als.

51:42

You know, turkey. So, so

51:44

it's fun, you know. have

51:46

to be the same and

51:48

thank God we're not. And

51:50

then it's like we all

51:52

I am always amazed by

51:54

all the humans we meet

51:56

and they all have a

51:58

different. they want to share

52:00

and a different passion that

52:02

they have and a different

52:05

gift or a different idea

52:07

and I just it gives

52:09

me such a charge. Yeah

52:11

it's always so oh sorry

52:13

go ahead Jean. No well

52:15

I was just going to

52:17

say and that to me

52:19

is the inside wink it's

52:21

it's the love the creative

52:23

expression within someone and how

52:25

it comes out in the

52:27

world. Yeah, it's so it's

52:29

so true. You never know.

52:31

You just don't know people's

52:33

stories. And I'm just thinking,

52:35

just yesterday we were sitting

52:37

in synagogue for Russia Shana

52:39

and the gentleman that was

52:41

sitting on the end of

52:43

our aisle. Thank you. Thank

52:45

you. Thank you. Got up

52:47

and went on to the

52:49

Bima for, an Aliaf, which

52:51

is the honoring, and for

52:53

he became an adult bar

52:56

mitzvah. And so when he

52:58

sat back down, my parents

53:00

said to him, you know,

53:02

Mazzletov, what made you kind

53:04

of pursue that path? And

53:06

he said, well, it was

53:08

something that I had always

53:10

wanted to do. And I

53:12

had signed up for it

53:14

during COVID, and then I

53:16

couldn't do it. And then

53:18

my wife got sick and

53:20

it became very important to

53:22

me that this was something

53:24

that I complete while she

53:26

was sick she did end

53:28

up passing away they have

53:30

two young kids who have

53:32

not yet been two young

53:34

boys who have not yet

53:36

been bar mitzvad and or

53:38

become a bar mitzvah become

53:40

bar mitzvah and I

53:44

just my mom looked at me

53:46

I looked at my mom we

53:48

both started crying because in that

53:50

moment it was like I think

53:52

what you're talking about is like

53:54

the the humanity the consciousness the

53:56

connection of us all that like

53:58

human part of us that recognizes

54:00

you know love for his son,

54:03

I mean he didn't say any

54:05

of this, I could just be

54:07

projecting, but his love for his

54:09

sons, his love for his spirituality

54:11

and religion that got him really

54:13

through. Even like there was a

54:15

synchronicity because his name, his name

54:17

had been changed and our name

54:20

had been changed from the same

54:22

name. That's

54:26

amazing. Yeah. So it was just

54:28

it was just like the whole

54:30

thing was just like this fascinating

54:32

connection that happened really I mean

54:35

this was in between you know

54:37

prayers and everything where they were

54:39

like sort of whispering to each

54:41

other and trying to get the

54:43

story and it was just one

54:45

of those moments like you're talking

54:47

about a genuine human connection that

54:49

is so powerful. And even though

54:51

I don't go to temple I'm

54:54

not Jewish I feel like crying.

54:56

Because there is something so honest

54:58

and truthful about a man with

55:00

a spiritual desire and then, you

55:02

know, the loss of his wife

55:04

and it's just that is the

55:06

thing that I think we overlook.

55:08

that and in the society right

55:10

now was in this time, but

55:12

that is such a beautiful story

55:15

like I feel like calling that

55:17

guy and saying good good I

55:19

know, I know it really was,

55:21

it was and then we told

55:23

my sister and my sister-in-law when

55:25

we got back to our house

55:27

and they shared that they had

55:29

been at the family service earlier

55:31

and he had been up on

55:33

the Bima holding the tour, I

55:36

mean it was just like a

55:38

beautiful and they said that they

55:40

were sort of wondering like what

55:42

his story was. Yeah, because he

55:44

was up there, you know, just

55:46

the three of them. And so

55:48

it was just a really, just

55:50

a reminder of the importance of

55:52

knowing that everybody has a story.

55:54

That's right. Yeah, sending him huge

55:57

blessings. Yeah, how much. Yeah. So

55:59

ladies, this was. phenomenal. Thank you

56:01

for your time. I just loved

56:03

it. Yeah, we're going to do

56:05

some sharing, some cross-promotion of each

56:07

other's podcast as well, because they're

56:09

of the similar vein. But if

56:11

people want to find you, where

56:13

can they find you? How can

56:15

they get to know your work

56:18

more? We

56:20

have a website, well,

56:22

www. inside wink.com. Right,

56:24

that's the website. And

56:26

our podcast. Yeah, it's

56:28

on Apple and Spotify.

56:30

It's just inside wink.

56:34

Like you're linking up the good

56:36

within. There you go. Yeah. We

56:38

can't wait to interview you, Amy.

56:41

Yeah, that's going to be really

56:43

funny. I know, I'm so excited.

56:45

That's in two weeks, I think.

56:47

Two weeks. So that I will

56:50

hold steadfast on. That's okay. Life

56:52

happens. Yeah, really. It's not like

56:54

if something comes up, just let

56:56

us know. I will. I appreciate

56:59

you both. Thank you so much

57:01

for your time today. You so

57:03

nice to see you. You too.

57:05

You too. Bye! Like what you

57:08

heard today and want to hear

57:10

more, wondering what comes next and

57:12

what it all means, head over

57:14

to Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, Google

57:17

Play, or anywhere you get your

57:19

podcast and hit subscribe. Also, if

57:21

you could take a minute to

57:23

rate and review my podcast, I

57:26

would really appreciate it. Stay tuned

57:28

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