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you'll love to use. Hello

2:01

everyone, hi friends, welcome back to

2:04

Barb Knows Best, the podcast. It

2:06

is me, Michelle, your co-host, and

2:08

I am sitting here yet again

2:10

with my mother Barb, and we're

2:12

so super excited to be chatting

2:14

with you all this week. Hi

2:16

Mom. Hi, Michelle. So nice to

2:18

be with you, as per usual.

2:20

It's very nice to be with

2:22

me. Of course I do. You

2:24

know, I find myself always saying

2:26

that, but I never create the

2:28

space for you to put that

2:30

back on me. You're so cute.

2:32

Yes, I love being here every

2:34

week with you. I love that

2:36

you said creating space Yeah, it's

2:38

kind of a teaser a little

2:40

teaser for some of the things

2:42

we're going to talk about today

2:44

But yes, I am an Easter

2:46

egg if you will. Yes, this

2:48

is one of my favorite things

2:50

of the week is sitting down

2:52

having this conversation with you and

2:54

with our community. So it is

2:56

always a joy and You know,

2:58

if you've been listening to the

3:00

show since the beginning, almost three

3:02

years ago, we're approaching the three-year

3:04

anniversary, which is truly wild. Where

3:06

does the time go? What is

3:08

time? You know, we had this

3:10

idea to create this show to

3:12

allow you all to feel like

3:14

you're sitting in our living room,

3:16

participating or listening in on

3:18

the conversations that you

3:21

and I have as

3:23

mother-daughter, as co-workers, as...

3:25

Empathetic human beings, you

3:27

know, picking apart, life's

3:29

complicated and interesting topics.

3:32

And, you know, three

3:34

years into it, we've

3:36

tackled a lot of

3:38

issues. We've tackled and

3:41

dived into a lot

3:43

of personal struggles, you

3:45

know, personal development topics,

3:47

etc., etc. And it's...

3:49

It's true, it's not

3:52

a bit that very

3:54

often we choose topics

3:56

based on our lived

3:58

experiences. And this week's...

4:00

episode is particularly poignant

4:03

for us as we've been

4:05

navigating some personal

4:07

challenges. And in the

4:10

midst of it all, you and I

4:12

looked at each other and said,

4:14

this should be an episode. So

4:16

here we are. I love it.

4:18

And I think what I've, just

4:20

to piggyback on to what you

4:22

just said, what I love so

4:25

much about this is. We have the

4:27

precious opportunity to share

4:29

our personal experiences with the

4:31

world and Everything that we share

4:34

and everything that we talk about

4:36

we've been through We're never sharing

4:38

anything that say, you know, oh, we think

4:40

this and this person said this and

4:42

I know some other people have

4:45

experienced this is and this is what

4:47

we think about it. It's always what

4:49

we feel about it and then what

4:51

we think about it how we've

4:53

translated the feelings or the

4:55

trauma or the the disorganization

4:57

or the troubles, you know,

5:00

that we face in life

5:02

or the difficulties, how we've

5:04

internalized them in our own

5:06

personal lives individually and sometimes

5:08

collectively, often collectively, and

5:10

sharing our thoughts with you and

5:12

sharing our feelings with you and our

5:14

steps or our tools or the things

5:17

that we've done to try to navigate

5:19

life in general, to live that, you

5:21

know, as authentic, integral. fun,

5:23

happy, messy life that we all are

5:25

trying to live to the best of

5:27

our ability. So that's why I love

5:30

it so much. And you're right, this

5:32

topic this week, usually we

5:34

take topics that you all

5:36

have recommended or that you've

5:38

asked us to talk about. A

5:40

combination of sorts. Yes, and they've

5:42

usually, and yeah, and there, there,

5:45

there have always been things that

5:47

we've experienced, but this one

5:49

in particular just happened, so

5:52

it's kind of, personally,

5:54

have dealt with this, you

5:57

and I talk about this

5:59

a lot. But I

6:01

know, and I've heard from a lot

6:03

of you that this is something

6:05

that people who are on

6:07

a spiritual path or a

6:09

personal development journey or who

6:11

are taking out time

6:14

in their daily lives to better

6:16

themselves, this is something that

6:18

we struggle with. And

6:21

I guess, first off, if

6:23

this resonates with you, you're not alone. And

6:26

we're going to talk about it. So

6:29

what do you do

6:31

when you show up not

6:33

the best version of yourself? You

6:36

know, we talk about being the best

6:38

version, becoming the best version, the tools

6:40

to be the best version. But

6:42

sometimes life

6:45

happens and we

6:48

get triggered or, you

6:51

know, we lose our

6:53

presence or get confused.

6:55

And maybe we say something we

6:57

don't mean, or snap at someone or

6:59

maybe yell at someone or have

7:01

a knee jerk reaction. How

7:04

do you handle it? Um, and

7:06

that's what we're going to dive into today

7:08

because it's a layered topic. It's

7:11

tricky. It's certainly,

7:13

um, something

7:15

that I think for both of us

7:18

produces a lot of self -judgment and self

7:20

-criticism. And

7:23

we're going to dive into all the aspects of

7:25

it because I think it's

7:27

interesting for me, Michelle, to think

7:29

about that idea of what do we do

7:31

when we're not showing up as the best version of

7:33

ourselves? And what does that even mean really? Cause

7:36

we all have different ideas of what

7:38

the best version of ourselves are. Like

7:41

what I think the best version of myself

7:43

is might not, but you think the

7:45

best version of yourself is. And so it

7:47

goes down the line. So it's interesting

7:49

to just even reflect on that as humans.

7:52

How is it that we want to

7:54

show up in life? What, what does it mean to

7:56

be the best version of who we are? Or

7:58

what is it? What is, what are our

8:00

values and what are our visions and

8:02

what are our thoughts for ourselves and

8:04

how we truly want to treat other

8:07

people how we treat truly want to

8:09

show up but also how do we

8:11

want to treat ourselves and how

8:13

do we feel about ourselves and as

8:15

you said the topic today what happens

8:18

when we when we're triggered yeah or

8:20

when we lose our temper and we

8:22

say something that we wish that we

8:24

hadn't said and I've reflected back

8:26

on this a lot because it

8:28

happened to me recently that I really

8:31

got triggered by a conversation

8:33

that I was having with another

8:35

person that I happened over here

8:37

that you happen to be in the room

8:40

you heard the whole thing and I

8:42

think where this got tricky and this

8:44

because we might just dive right in

8:46

and talk about it where it got

8:49

tricky for me is boundaries were

8:51

crossed in the conversation I

8:53

I was triggered because of the

8:55

other person's response that was

8:57

not a kind or appropriate

8:59

response in my mind. And you

9:01

were feeling disrespectful. And I

9:04

was feeling incredibly disrespected. I

9:06

was feeling incredibly put upon, not

9:08

put upon, that's not the right

9:11

words, those aren't the right words.

9:13

I was feeling really like who

9:15

I was, what I was thinking, what I

9:17

was saying didn't matter at all. So

9:20

I felt like I was really talking to

9:22

the wall. Like pushed in a corner

9:24

and pushed in a corner and that

9:26

it didn't matter what I said. I

9:28

was started off calm. I started off

9:30

saying, hey, this is not okay. This

9:32

is not appropriate in my mind and went

9:34

through all the reasons why why I was

9:36

feeling the way that I was and why some

9:38

of the things that were being said to me

9:41

were not okay. And the person kept

9:43

pushing back. And it was I don't know

9:45

if I, I said to Michelle later, I don't know

9:47

if I've ever. I mean, certainly probably have

9:49

in my 68 years. I don't know

9:51

if I've ever though been in a

9:53

situation like that where there was no

9:55

giving. There was no, oh, I can kind

9:57

of see how you feel. No, that did not

9:59

happen. but on the other end of

10:01

this call. It was truly just this

10:04

is the way it is. No, I'm

10:06

sorry. No, nothing. Just this is the

10:08

way it is. So it was interesting

10:10

for me. I truly did lose my

10:12

temper. I thought this is not okay.

10:15

And the conversation didn't go well. I

10:17

ended up ending the conversation by saying,

10:19

I think we need to stop. I

10:21

think we need to talk about this

10:23

and I'll get back to you. And

10:26

I think you guys kind of mutually

10:28

agreed that. you couldn't really find a

10:30

solution in talking to each other. Yes,

10:32

because I was getting nowhere with what

10:34

I was trying to say and someone

10:37

else to intervene. Yeah, I said we

10:39

need to we need to take this

10:41

further. So but what happened and why

10:43

we're having this episode why I really

10:46

wanted to have the episode when I

10:48

was talking to Michelle about and she's

10:50

once said we have to make an

10:52

episode of this is what happened was

10:54

I did not like that I how

10:57

I reacted. some of the things I

10:59

said and some of the things that

11:01

triggered me. I really got angry because

11:03

I felt like I was not, I

11:05

couldn't make any headway. I could not.

11:08

It was impossible. And so I was

11:10

talking with Michelle and so ultimately I

11:12

said you need to handle this situation.

11:14

I would love it. Yeah, I would

11:16

love it if you, because you had

11:19

some great ideas, you had some thoughts

11:21

of how you were going to have

11:23

the conversation. And I realized in that

11:25

moment that this person triggers me because

11:27

we've just backed off. I've just said,

11:30

okay, this isn't working. It's been building

11:32

for a long time. And this person

11:34

tends to be very disrespectful. She's in

11:36

a position of power and she doesn't

11:38

really care. She's just saying, I'm just

11:41

going by the book. She doesn't really

11:43

care about how it affects the human,

11:45

in my opinion. She just really just

11:47

cares about just going through the motions

11:50

of doing the job. So it was

11:52

very, it was very hard for me

11:54

because I'm a very passionate. compassionate, loving

11:56

human, I want to always treat people

11:58

with respect and I want to be...

12:01

treated with respect. This person was being

12:03

very black and white and you live

12:05

in the gray like we talk about.

12:07

Exactly. And there was no room for

12:09

the gray in this specific situation and

12:12

it was kind of unnecessary. Totally unnecessary.

12:14

We're not talking about like nuclear codes

12:16

or world peace like this is no

12:18

totally something that really could have

12:20

had some leeway. Exactly and where

12:22

you both were coming from. Definitely

12:24

so and I think that's the whole... point of

12:26

this. What happens when that, what, how do you

12:28

feel when that happens to you? And I want

12:30

to share my feelings and where I went with

12:33

it and why I felt this was so important

12:35

to talk about when you lose your temper, when

12:37

you snap at someone, when you really feeling totally

12:39

disrespected and you can't get anywhere with them, but

12:41

you know that you have to deal with the

12:43

person. You know you just can't say I wish

12:45

you well goodbye. Right. And I have the luxury

12:47

of being able to say Michelle being able

12:49

to say Michelle. Did you mind stepping

12:52

in here. because I don't want to

12:54

deal with this person anymore. I've now

12:56

set a very strong boundary. And I

12:59

will not, I will not deal

13:01

with this person again. The

13:03

relationship was in a place

13:05

where you're not going to

13:07

get anywhere. No. And so you

13:09

can try to get somewhere. Yeah,

13:12

there needs to be, there needed

13:14

to be solutions and communication

13:16

and So I really... It's

13:18

an active situation. Exactly. So

13:20

I took a deep dive.

13:22

I was asking myself and

13:24

I posed this question to all

13:26

of you. Have you ever looked back at

13:28

your day? You know, or an incident

13:31

in your day or a conversation or

13:33

a time when you were having

13:35

an conversation with another person or

13:38

with a group of people and

13:40

thought, wow, I could have handled

13:42

that better. And what I came to

13:44

realize in this whole thing. that I

13:46

lost my temper, I was triggered by this person

13:49

because it wasn't the first time that this

13:51

had happened, but this was the most egregious

13:53

time of the things that she was saying

13:55

and expecting to have happened that were

13:57

not appropriate and very disrespectful. What

14:00

I realized as I started, as

14:02

I was easing off the anger and

14:04

the very irritation, and how can

14:06

someone disrespect another human being

14:08

like this? Because I go down

14:11

that path. What started to happen

14:13

was as the anger started to

14:15

dissipate toward the person, because once

14:17

the person is no longer in

14:19

our sphere, and I already made

14:21

the decision, I said I've set a

14:23

boundary no more, then what happened, which

14:25

was kind of to my surprise, but

14:28

not really. was I really started getting

14:30

hard on myself. Yeah. How did I let

14:32

that happen? Because when we do something like

14:34

that, if we truly have all the values and

14:36

the ideas of how it is we want to

14:38

live our lives, we have to not think that

14:40

we are perfect. And I kept telling myself,

14:42

Barbara, you're not perfect. This was a

14:44

trigger. Now learn from the trigger. What was it

14:47

that triggered you? What is it about this that

14:49

you, as you said, Michelle, that you kind of

14:51

had seen this building and building and

14:53

building and building and building and building

14:55

and building and building. And so I

14:57

share all of this to say that

14:59

we truly have to really cut it

15:01

off when we start getting down

15:04

on ourselves for acting out

15:06

of character let's say when we

15:08

have this certain desire to be the

15:10

person that we are and the things

15:12

how we're going to handle certain things

15:15

when we don't actually do that all

15:17

the time because we're not ever going

15:19

to do that all the time. Right.

15:22

And I think the introspection for

15:24

me, and then I'll let you start

15:26

talking a little bit, was the introspection

15:28

for me, was it's never too late to

15:30

just own it and move on. And by

15:32

owning it, it doesn't mean you got

15:34

to call the person up and apologize.

15:36

It doesn't mean you have to say, oh

15:39

my gosh, I'm so sorry. And all those things,

15:41

because you're feeling like, oh, I wish I

15:43

hadn't done that. It just means owning, wow,

15:45

because where I came to all of this, and

15:47

I came to all of this, Yeah. And I finally

15:50

stood up for myself. I finally didn't

15:52

just get off the call and just say, oh

15:54

my gosh, I can't deal with this anymore. Let

15:56

me just do whatever I want to do. What

15:58

do you think standing up for yourself? Did you

16:00

feel that you stood up for yourself

16:02

in a aligned way? No, that's what

16:05

I'm trying to say. Sorry. Yes, in

16:07

an aligned way, as I look back

16:09

on it, I could have handled it

16:12

differently. But because I wasn't aware of

16:14

the trigger, and this is where I

16:16

want to really put the emphasis, and

16:19

I think you and I talked about

16:21

this quite a bit, I was triggered

16:23

in the crossing of the boundaries, the

16:26

disrespect. And I was also triggered with

16:28

Barb, you already knew this about this

16:30

person because you've been through it already.

16:33

You had ignored it. I had ignored

16:35

it. I had bypassed, and that's where

16:37

I really want to get to. I

16:40

had bypassed. I had bypassed. I had

16:42

bypassed what I already knew to be

16:44

true. And when I got the text

16:47

from this person, I need to talk

16:49

to you for a few minutes. My

16:51

first reaction was, oh my goodness. I

16:54

don't want to talk to this person.

16:56

This is not going to you. make

16:58

the call. And so the teaching in

17:01

all of this and why I feel

17:03

like it's so powerful to share this

17:05

as a podcast episode is that standing

17:07

up for yourself is hard sometimes and

17:10

it's hard to do it as you

17:12

said Michelle in an aligned way. It's

17:14

hard to stay calm. It's hard to

17:17

stay present. But many times and often

17:19

I think all of us do, we

17:21

do do it. But when we are

17:24

triggered. And when we haven't set the

17:26

boundaries and when we already know that

17:28

a person is problematic for us or

17:31

causes us to feel like, oh my

17:33

gosh, you know, there's a there's a

17:35

Hindu saying the agitation of mine called

17:38

rittis, I use that a lot, because

17:40

for me that word is so powerful.

17:42

The rittis in my mind, the agitation

17:45

in my mind when I saw that

17:47

text was through the roof. You already

17:49

starting on third base of agitation of

17:52

agitation. Exactly. The conversation was doomed from

17:54

the start. I say this to also

17:56

add that what happened. for me and

17:59

what I think happens for a lot

18:01

of us and we talked about this

18:03

and one of our other episodes in

18:06

2024 is that we can feel suffering

18:08

like it's suffering when people are disrespectful

18:10

to you it's suffering when we

18:12

have to interact with a person

18:14

who just isn't kind who doesn't

18:16

have the graciousness to be able

18:18

to take the middle path and let's work

18:20

this out together yeah so what happens then

18:23

is when we get off the phone with

18:25

someone like that if we've lost our temperor

18:27

if we've not as you said beautifully,

18:29

you know, handle it in a line

18:31

way that we would have hoped that we

18:34

could have. We compound the suffering

18:36

and start piling on more suffering

18:38

on ourselves. What is wrong with

18:40

me? Why did I handle it that

18:43

way? Why didn't I just do this? Why

18:45

didn't I just do that? I knew that

18:47

she was a trigger. I knew that this

18:49

was going to happen. So we really

18:51

go off track with punishing

18:53

ourselves. So now we've we've

18:56

had this whole agitating with

18:58

me and... punishing ourselves even

19:00

more, which is compounding the

19:02

suffering that we're feeling. And instead of

19:04

doing that, it took me a while to

19:06

get here. When I say, well, it took me

19:08

like several hours. That's not that

19:11

long in the grand scheme of things.

19:13

No, no, I understand that, but the

19:15

suffering was immense. I was so hurt.

19:17

I was so upset and then I

19:20

was so mad at myself. Yeah. For

19:22

not handling it differently when I already

19:24

knew. But I guess I just thought, oh,

19:26

I could handle handle this. And so

19:28

when somebody's triggering you like

19:30

that, that is that egregious

19:33

or that strong, I could

19:35

feel the goosebumps in my body. We,

19:37

we, it is okay, we need to take

19:39

the permission to not engage.

19:41

We need to take the permission

19:43

to not engage. We need to

19:45

take the permission to figure out

19:47

what's another solution. Create

19:49

space. Create space. Like, don't,

19:51

an option could have been not

19:54

even responding at all. How does

19:56

this person make me feel? So

19:58

that's why it's so important. after I

20:00

was punishing myself and adding to more

20:02

of my suffering, I thought, let me

20:05

just sit down for a moment with

20:07

some space, with some quiet, and gain

20:09

some understanding of what actually happened, what

20:11

has been happening, and what can I

20:13

do differently? Because let's, I'm gonna tell

20:15

you all that right now, there is

20:18

never any excuse for bad behavior. And

20:20

this person's behavior has been atrocious. And

20:22

then when I look at how I

20:24

responded to her, that's not the behavior

20:26

that I would have wanted to respond

20:28

to either. Was your behavior considered bad?

20:31

I don't think it was bad. It

20:33

was aggressive. I had very aggressive, very

20:35

firm, very loud, trying to get my

20:37

point across because I was being met

20:39

with such disrespect. So instead of just

20:41

pausing and taking the space then and

20:44

saying, look, this is not working, we

20:46

need to get off the phone and

20:48

come back to this later. So yeah,

20:50

I think it's really enforcing that idea

20:52

of the power of the pause and

20:55

we don't have to engage when we

20:57

start to feel our blood pressure rising

20:59

or our energy going off the charts

21:01

or our voice getting loud. It's so

21:03

important to know that we have the

21:05

permission to take the pause. We don't

21:08

have to stay in the conversation. That

21:10

is the power of the pause. And

21:12

it's what we talk about. And I

21:14

think where I got to all of

21:16

these insights and all these things, that

21:18

we get to over and over and

21:21

over again for the rest of our

21:23

lives. We don't just get one insight.

21:25

That's why I love my Angela's quote.

21:27

Forgive yourself for not knowing what you

21:29

didn't know before you learned it. We're

21:32

learning all the time, and I learned

21:34

a whole new thing in this moment.

21:36

I know the power of the pause,

21:38

for this situation, needed to start from

21:40

me not even responding to the text

21:42

to begin to begin with. and taking

21:45

the pause and saying, oh my gosh,

21:47

I know this person triggers me. I

21:49

know that it's off the walls whenever

21:51

we have a conversation and I have

21:53

to back off. So looking at it

21:55

in that regard, knowing that give yourself

21:58

grace and permission to do. whatever you

22:00

need to do to protect yourself. So,

22:02

you know, we talk about so much

22:04

protecting your peace, protecting your

22:07

sanity, protecting your own respect

22:09

for yourself. And so it brought me

22:11

to this, why I felt like we needed to

22:13

share it as an episode is just

22:15

unpacking, talking to myself and unpacking

22:17

the whole situation and realizing

22:20

I deserve better. And not in an arrogant,

22:22

nasty way. I don't want to

22:24

have a relationship with someone who's going

22:26

to treat me like this over and

22:28

over again. And so looking

22:30

for what other solutions could there

22:33

be? Is there another person

22:35

that can actually intervene

22:37

in this situation if it is someone

22:39

that has to stay in your

22:41

life? Is there some other way, looking

22:43

for the other way, finding another way

22:45

so that you don't have to be

22:48

in a situation like that

22:50

feeling disrespected or feeling like

22:52

you just can't handle it or

22:54

feeling less than or feeling like, oh,

22:57

well, maybe... you know, maybe I have to

22:59

deal with this and I don't know how

23:01

to deal with this. What's the matter with

23:03

me? No, there are people that trigger us

23:05

in life that we should have nothing

23:07

to do with that we maybe can't

23:09

have a conversation with. And as

23:12

I always say, you wish them well and

23:14

you keep on moving. Right. You know,

23:16

I don't wish any harm to anyone.

23:18

I don't wish any ill will to

23:20

anyone. But I also don't wish any

23:22

harm or ill will to myself. And

23:24

that really put a lot on my

23:27

peace. sanity. Right. Yeah, it's a lot.

23:29

No, it's it's a good retelling

23:31

of the situation and the

23:33

dynamics that were at play. You

23:36

know, as someone who was

23:38

kind of on the outside

23:40

looking in and and bearing

23:42

witness to this situation and

23:44

obviously knowing you so well

23:46

and knowing the situation. Um,

23:49

I think that, you know, the crux

23:51

of this topic and why

23:53

we wanted to chat about it

23:55

today. is I and

23:58

I know mean

24:00

this in any respect to

24:02

you, but I don't think

24:04

that you handled it in

24:06

the best way, as far

24:08

as who I think you

24:11

are and how you communicate

24:13

things. And, you know, when

24:15

you got off the phone

24:17

and we were talking, I

24:19

was like, you know, that

24:21

didn't sound good. What, what

24:23

is happening? And then, you

24:25

know, of course, you said,

24:28

I'm triggered and she triggers

24:30

me and I knew I

24:32

shouldn't have gone on that

24:34

call. But I think what's

24:36

interesting about that is, and

24:38

for all of us, like

24:40

you said, in your reflection,

24:42

you're like, could I have

24:44

handled that better? Could I

24:47

have done better? What could

24:49

I do differently going forward?

24:51

And... It's getting into that

24:53

mindset, I think that's most

24:55

important when we have these

24:57

instances where maybe we've said

24:59

something or did something that

25:01

wasn't an alignment. Realizing, okay,

25:04

that wasn't really great, that

25:06

wasn't my best work, how

25:08

could I be differently or

25:10

do differently moving forward? And,

25:12

you know, not to kind

25:14

of like break the fourth

25:16

wall here, but there was

25:18

another element in this dynamic

25:20

too. And you and I

25:23

talk about this a lot,

25:25

but it's like giving ourselves

25:27

grace to make mistakes no

25:29

matter who we are or

25:31

no matter like what our

25:33

reputations are. And you and

25:35

I have had this conversation

25:37

often where, you know, your

25:39

peaceful bar. And I think

25:42

there's a perception that you're

25:44

perfect. Like you know how

25:46

to handle things perfectly. And

25:48

Of course that's not true.

25:50

You're a human being and

25:52

you make mistakes or you

25:54

get angry. But you and

25:56

I had that conversation of

25:59

like, you know, If someone

26:01

gets in an argument

26:03

with you, are they going to

26:05

say, oh, you're not practicing

26:08

what you preach, you know

26:10

what I mean? And it's

26:12

another layer of embracing

26:14

imperfection and the

26:16

human nature of

26:18

making mistakes and

26:21

another layer of

26:23

self-compassion and

26:25

self-forgiveness, which I

26:27

think is what you were.

26:29

battling in this situation

26:32

because you do hold yourself

26:34

to such a high standard

26:36

and I know you didn't feel

26:38

like your participation

26:40

in that conversation lived

26:42

up to your standards.

26:44

And so I think what's important

26:47

about this conversation

26:49

is, you know, acknowledging for

26:52

all of us that no matter who

26:54

we are, no matter if we're like...

26:56

the Pope or the Dalai Lama or

26:58

someone of high stature that, you

27:00

know, actively preaches and talks

27:03

about kindness and compassion

27:05

and patience, like, we're going to

27:07

make mistakes. And it's like, how

27:10

can we all take ourselves

27:12

and other people off pedestals

27:14

to realize that none of us are

27:16

perfect and we're not going to

27:18

always show up perfectly? And it's

27:20

like, what do instead of being

27:23

and having judgment about? when we

27:25

don't show up how we want to,

27:27

how can we learn from it? And

27:29

I think that's really beautifully said,

27:32

Michelle, because I think when I,

27:34

as I reflected back on this,

27:36

had I dealt with the disrespect

27:38

from the get go with this person

27:40

instead of, oh, well, you know, maybe,

27:42

you know, maybe they don't mean it

27:44

or it's okay. I can figure out

27:46

a way around it, you know, not

27:48

wanting to deal with it head on.

27:51

And I think it was a perfect.

27:53

analogy for me like you have

27:55

to deal with what is not okay

27:57

in the moment or at least take

27:59

a plaza reflect back on it. And

28:01

I just kept going with this

28:03

person thinking it was going to be

28:05

okay, you know, having many instances

28:07

of disrespect instead of treating the problem

28:09

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28:11

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29:14

so yes, and so I think you're

29:16

right. When people are trying to put

29:18

you on a pedestal or on a

29:20

standard as well, when people are, you

29:22

know, pushing you and pushing you and

29:24

pushing you expecting it, they're just going

29:26

to roll right over. They're going to

29:28

roll right over you. You have to

29:30

be able to take away that idea

29:33

that this is

29:35

not okay. And

29:37

if we act in a way that's

29:39

not in alignment or we actually get

29:41

triggered to a place where we're not

29:43

really happy with as we look back

29:45

on it and how it was, being

29:47

okay with that. Because I think you're

29:49

using the word mistake. I don't think

29:51

I've labeled it as a mistake. I've

29:54

labeled it as,

29:58

you know what? I am a human. being. It

30:02

wasn't the best version of me that showed up

30:04

for that conversation. And

30:07

I think it's really

30:09

important for me to acknowledge that but

30:11

not beat myself up over it. And

30:14

I think this is where we as humans

30:16

can get into trouble when we don't acknowledge

30:18

that wait a minute, I

30:21

could have made a different choice

30:23

here. The choice I made

30:25

did not serve me nor do I

30:27

think it even serve the other person. So

30:30

what could I do differently? So

30:33

that's really the message for

30:35

me in this. How can

30:37

I do something differently and not

30:39

be so self -righteous thinking that I'm

30:41

beyond the idea that I could. Oh,

30:43

this was not a choice that

30:45

I wish I had made, but I'm

30:47

learning from it because now I see

30:49

when someone triggers me off the bat, which

30:51

is what happened in this situation a year

30:53

ago, two years ago, I

30:55

need to address it. Because

30:58

what I see happened is I

31:00

got triggered massively. And

31:04

as I was saying earlier, what happens when the

31:06

anger about what the other person did, then

31:08

we start to reflect it back on ourselves. We

31:10

start to beat ourselves up as you were

31:12

saying the idea that, oh my gosh, I

31:15

wish I hadn't done that. All the

31:17

things, you know, why didn't I take

31:19

a pause? Why didn't I do this? Why didn't you do that

31:21

and going and that never is helpful? So

31:23

you stop that behavior, you stop that adding on

31:25

to it and you start really looking at what,

31:27

what could I have done differently? Now what am

31:29

I going to do going forward? That's where I'm

31:31

going with all this now. What am I going

31:33

to do going forward? What have I learned from

31:35

this? And what I've learned from this is

31:37

stand up for myself in the beginning, do not

31:39

allow people to disrespect you in the beginning. And

31:42

if you can't get headway

31:44

with the person, then you

31:46

go, there's always another way. I

31:48

think that's what I've learned. I could

31:51

think of five other ways I could have

31:53

gone with this, besides asking you

31:55

to intervene here. I

31:57

could have think of four other, there are four other ways

31:59

I could have gone with this and I did not.

32:01

I just suffered or I just

32:03

endured it. Oh, it'll be okay.

32:05

It'll be okay. Oh, maybe she

32:07

didn't mean it. Oh, and she

32:09

must be having a bad day.

32:11

So I feel very, very, very

32:14

strongly that when we have acted

32:16

in a way that we're not

32:18

proud of or that it is

32:20

in a way that we would

32:22

have hoped that we could have

32:24

responded, you're human and it's okay.

32:27

And for me, harming other people

32:29

is not my thing. So that's

32:31

where I started beating myself up

32:33

because I lost my temper and

32:35

all the things. And so looking

32:38

at that, I say, okay, I

32:40

crossed a line there of losing

32:42

my temper and raising my voice,

32:44

what would I do differently? And

32:47

so as I repeat one more

32:49

time, what I would do differently

32:51

is set the boundary and exit

32:53

the person out of my life.

32:55

because I now have enough information

32:58

over the past two years that

33:00

this person and I cannot be

33:02

in the same space space. So

33:04

it's important and I think that's

33:06

okay. Then when you really realize

33:09

that and let yourself off the

33:11

hook for, you know, going outside

33:13

of what you felt was who

33:15

you were in alignment with and

33:18

saying, okay, this happened. Now what?

33:20

I just think it's really important to

33:23

understand that and to be okay with

33:25

it. And how can we be okay

33:27

with it? How can we truly be

33:30

okay with that knowing that whoever you're

33:32

having a disagreement with or some issue

33:34

with, you're two different people acting in

33:37

two different ways and we are unique

33:39

human beings, we're not always gonna see

33:41

things the same way, because she's adamant

33:44

at the way she sees it. And

33:46

I was not. Right. And so you

33:48

were not seeing eye to eye and

33:51

any way shape or form. No. And

33:53

how she responds. In other instances, it's

33:55

so contrary to what she was trying

33:58

to tell me, has to be done.

34:00

So I could see all of the

34:02

things that were just not correct, but

34:05

didn't do anything about it. And let

34:07

it build and let it build and

34:09

let it build. So I just say

34:12

all that, that the most important thing

34:14

that I feel in this whole conversation

34:16

is, when you've acted out of alignment

34:19

in some behavior that you're not happy

34:21

that you did, you look back and

34:23

say, oh my gosh, I wish I

34:26

hadn't done it that way. Instead of

34:28

beating yourself up, which gets you stuck

34:30

and gets you even matter and gets

34:33

you even more upset with the other

34:35

person, but then more upset with yourself,

34:37

instead of all that, just say, wait

34:40

a minute, take a break, take a

34:42

pause, what could I have done differently,

34:44

take a break, take a pause, what

34:47

could I have done differently, and really

34:49

start outlining the ways that you could

34:51

do something differently, and it was just

34:54

a difference of opinion, it had been

34:56

a different story. Right. Especially when you're

34:58

being disrespected, especially when you're being put

35:01

down, especially when you're being told things.

35:03

So it's so important to say, okay,

35:05

how can I do this differently? What

35:08

are the three or four different ways

35:10

I could have handled it differently? And

35:12

now what do I need to do

35:15

moving forward? Yeah, and I think a

35:17

part of that is breaking down our

35:19

perceptions of that being a kind person

35:22

or a caring person means... being a

35:24

doormat or accepting anyone's behavior because I

35:26

don't want to disagree or I don't

35:29

want to go, you know, against someone

35:31

or, you know, I have to be

35:33

amenable because that's what people expect for

35:36

me or that's who I am, you

35:38

know, in the peaceful Barb conversation. But

35:40

even not that, I just wonder, even

35:43

not that, though, that it's not okay

35:45

because of people pleasing, maybe, even any,

35:47

any, I remember all my life. feeling

35:50

like, oh, I can't do that because

35:52

I don't want people not to like

35:54

me in the early days of my

35:57

life. Even, it doesn't, we have, we

35:59

don't. necessarily have a persona sometimes of

36:01

ourselves. We have the idea that we

36:04

just want everybody to like us. We

36:06

don't want to rock the boat. We

36:08

don't want to be mean. That's what

36:11

I was saying. Oh, I misunderstood what

36:13

you were saying then. I don't think

36:15

it has anything to do with

36:17

having some kind of a stature on

36:20

social media or a presence in the

36:22

world. I think it has to do a lot

36:24

of times with our own inner feelings about,

36:26

oh my gosh, that's both, I think.

36:28

Yes, I agree. A lot of us feel that

36:30

way and then don't stand up for

36:32

ourselves. I have to be amenable because

36:35

that's what people expect from me or

36:37

that's who I am, you know, you

36:39

know, in the peaceful bar of conversation.

36:41

But even not that, I just wonder,

36:44

even not that, but I'm saying, even

36:46

not that though, that, that it's not okay

36:48

because of people pleasing, maybe, even

36:51

any, any, I remember all my life,

36:53

feeling like. Oh, I can't do that because

36:55

I don't want people not to like

36:57

me in the earlier days of my

36:59

life. Even, it doesn't, we have, we

37:01

don't necessarily have a persona sometimes of

37:04

ourselves. We have the idea that we

37:06

just want everybody to like us. We

37:08

don't want to rock the boat. We

37:10

don't want to rock the boat. We

37:12

don't want to be mean. That's what

37:14

I was saying. Oh, I misunderstood

37:16

what you were saying then. I don't

37:19

think it has anything to do with

37:21

having anything to do. Yeah, that's not

37:23

me or oh my gosh. I can't be that

37:25

way. Well, of course. It's it's both

37:27

I think yes, I agree a lot of

37:29

us Feel that way and then don't

37:31

stand up for ourselves and then

37:34

it it Festers like this

37:36

particular situation where you know,

37:38

maybe you didn't say something at

37:40

the beginning and now here we are

37:42

because You know the disrespect

37:44

one unchecked or the

37:47

misunderstandings one unchecked and and

37:49

and now you're at a crossroads

37:51

where The communication

37:54

is dysfunctional and

37:56

tempers are high. I

37:58

think a piece... of this that

38:01

we can all practice is like,

38:03

okay, if someone starts to show

38:05

these behaviors to us early on,

38:07

like how can we stand up

38:10

for ourselves from the beginning without

38:12

feeling judgmental or afraid to stand

38:14

up for ourselves? I think it's

38:17

not always easy to feel confident

38:19

enough to speak for yourself and

38:21

to stand up for yourself and

38:23

to be, you know, assertive in

38:26

that way. I remember we were

38:28

talking about this the other day,

38:30

like growing up my dad always

38:33

was trying to go, this is

38:35

how it goes, and I said

38:37

I feel like I'm being disrespected

38:39

and never acknowledged that it is

38:42

disrespectful. We are being disrespected when

38:44

someone's not listening to us when

38:46

we come from a vulnerable place

38:48

of saying I'm feeling disrespected. That

38:51

when you say that to someone,

38:53

I don't care who it is.

38:55

In a calm fashion, when you

38:58

say that to someone, the answer

39:00

back should be, I'm so sorry,

39:02

explain to me how are you

39:04

feeling disrespected? What is happening right

39:07

now? What am I saying? What

39:09

are we doing? We need to

39:11

address the disrespect, because you can't

39:14

get to the issues if you're

39:16

not addressing the disrespect. And so

39:18

this person could not even acknowledge,

39:20

because she did not think that

39:23

she was being disrespectful. And so

39:25

that's a problem. So the thing

39:27

I wanted to say about that

39:29

for me is I've really done

39:32

a deep dive into all of

39:34

this is I believe feel free

39:36

to go over the person's head,

39:39

especially if it's a work environment.

39:41

Go to the next person in

39:43

charge if there is another next

39:45

person in charge, which is this

39:48

situation. So there's always another way

39:50

to work around something, especially when

39:52

it involves, I believe. When you're

39:55

being vulnerable and you're trying to

39:57

resolve something and you're being disrespected

39:59

Well, it's about looking for creative

40:01

solutions since you realize that you

40:04

can't, and this, that dynamic was

40:06

not working and was not going

40:08

to work. So what can you

40:11

do to move forward and be

40:13

productive in the situation and find

40:15

solutions? Right. And knowing that you

40:17

don't have to fix that situation,

40:20

I think that was the other

40:22

thing that came upon me. Sometimes

40:24

we feel like we have to

40:26

either be right or we have

40:29

to fix it or we have

40:31

to make it work or we

40:33

have to sort it out. Sometimes

40:36

it's not possible and as you

40:38

said, finding another creative solution or

40:40

finding another way around it possibly

40:42

could make it all okay or

40:45

could make it all for both

40:47

parties to be able to move

40:49

forward in whatever way that is.

40:52

I'm not by any means saying

40:54

both parties move forward and everything

40:56

is hunky-dory and we're all good.

40:58

It just means there's another path

41:01

that could be done to solve

41:03

the solution depending on what's happening.

41:05

So ultimately I think moods and

41:07

feelings where in each given moment

41:10

We're picking up clues and pieces

41:12

and breadcrumbs of of how we

41:14

react of things that bother us

41:17

or get under our skin of

41:19

you know other people's nuances and

41:21

then You know taking that all

41:23

in and then using it for

41:26

the next time And I really

41:28

think that that's the beauty of

41:30

such a messy, complicated life is

41:33

that we can collect all of

41:35

these clues and, you know, if

41:37

we're mindful and conscientious of it,

41:39

put it forth as we continue

41:42

on our life's paths. Other than

41:44

that, there's nothing really we can

41:46

do but have the intention to

41:48

show up in our quote unquote

41:51

best selves. Be present. Be mindful.

41:53

Be mindful. And if something doesn't

41:55

unfold in the way that we

41:58

would like for it too, know

42:00

that it's just another learning, a

42:02

learning opportunity. and asking ourselves, what

42:04

could I have done differently? What

42:07

could I have said? Is there

42:09

something that I could have done

42:11

prior to that conversation that might

42:14

have mitigated some of this tension?

42:16

Is there some sort of amends

42:18

or something that I need to

42:20

do now to fix the situation?

42:23

You know, Again, we talk so

42:25

often about the importance of asking

42:27

ourselves questions. And mom, I know

42:29

this is a huge part of

42:32

your practice at the end of

42:34

the day in reflection of the

42:36

day, going through the happenings of

42:39

a 24-hour span and seeing how

42:41

the day went. It's in those

42:43

moments where we can really start

42:45

to pinpoint, you know, the areas

42:48

in our lives that maybe need

42:50

a little more attention or maybe

42:52

are the places where we can

42:55

learn. And... It's not an opportunity

42:57

for us to be so critical

42:59

and harsh on ourselves and judgmental

43:01

having judgment for ourselves for the

43:04

other people because I do believe

43:06

and I know it's hard to

43:08

maybe wrap our minds around this

43:10

in the complicated times that we're

43:13

living in. But I think a

43:15

lot of us are just doing

43:17

the best we can with the

43:20

lives that we've been given day

43:22

to day and we're all complicated

43:24

human beings living in this very

43:26

messy existence. we're not always going

43:29

to get it right. And that's

43:31

okay. It's how can we take

43:33

the wrong or the messiness and

43:36

use it to move us forward?

43:38

That is beautifully said, Michelle. That

43:40

is really beautifully said. I love

43:42

it. And I think that's all

43:45

we can hope for. You know,

43:47

again, most of us aren't setting

43:49

out to harm other people or

43:51

to be cruel or... difficult. We're

43:54

just trying to make it through

43:56

and coming from that place. and

44:00

understanding that I think is helpful when

44:02

we do stumble. Yeah, love that. Or

44:04

when someone, you know, hurts us, or

44:07

isn't really acting in a way that

44:09

we feel is appropriate. I love it.

44:11

And I think, I think you really

44:13

summed it up beautifully, Michelle. I hope

44:16

that this conversation has helped anyone listening

44:18

to it. As I, if I, if

44:20

I, if I, if I, if I

44:22

think about it really deeply right now,

44:25

this has been one of the most.

44:27

teachable moments, this whole conversation that I

44:29

had to bring this to an episode

44:31

of Barb knows best, that I've had

44:34

in a really long time because I've

44:36

really gotten deep into my own self.

44:38

And if I recap what I would

44:41

share with you as we, as I

44:43

love what you said, Michelle, as we

44:45

go through life, the first I would

44:47

say is life is not one straight

44:50

path. And that's something that I really,

44:52

I mean, I think probably everything that

44:54

I'm going to share, we already know,

44:56

I already knew. But we're not always

44:59

going to make the choice that's in

45:01

our best interest and the best interest

45:03

of the whole. I mean, that's just

45:05

the way that it is. So life's

45:08

not a straight path, so sometimes we

45:10

have to take a little bend and

45:12

a little turn away from certain people.

45:14

So the first thing that I would

45:17

say is just to really be cognizant

45:19

of when you're being triggered, take the

45:21

pause. Just no matter what, just take

45:23

the pause so that you can assess

45:26

what's happening what's going on here for

45:28

me. And then after you assess what's

45:30

happening, maybe there's a boundary that needs

45:32

to be set. What's happening for me

45:35

is I've been through this already. I've

45:37

had iterations of conversation like this already

45:39

with a person or whatever it is

45:42

you're going through, setting a boundary and

45:44

finding another way. What is another way

45:46

that I can deal with this because

45:48

what I've done so far is not

45:51

working because basically what... I realize and

45:53

what I think many of us might

45:55

realize because of the people pleasing or

45:57

the wanting to do the right thing

46:00

or the wanting to be a good

46:02

person or a kind person is we're

46:04

not standing up for ourselves. We're not

46:06

owning it. I'm being disrespected. Let's take

46:09

a... pause me to figure this out.

46:11

And so there's a, I think there's

46:13

a delicate balance here of then not

46:15

punishing yourself too much. Oh my gosh,

46:18

I did act in a way that

46:20

I wish I might not have acted

46:22

or I really, really dislike this person

46:24

and you get into that really angry

46:27

mode at really just saying, okay, wait

46:29

a minute, just stop it all. What's

46:31

happening here? What do I need to

46:33

look at? What am I feeling? And

46:36

looking at How can I look at

46:38

this in a way that's a little

46:40

bit detached from my feelings, but owning

46:43

my feelings and being open to reflection?

46:45

That is my one of my greatest

46:47

practices being open to reflection understanding to

46:49

ultimately To ultimately Come to a place

46:52

of what could I have done differently

46:54

because if you're feeling immense anger or

46:56

rage or whatever it is but you're

46:58

also feeling bad about yourself or you're

47:01

feeling like, gosh, I wish I hadn't,

47:03

what I was saying was true. See,

47:05

that's the thing I went through. What

47:07

I was saying was true. What how

47:10

I felt, you know, feelings aren't facts,

47:12

feelings aren't true or false, or just

47:14

feelings. But what I was saying was

47:16

true, but because of my losing my

47:19

temper, it lost the truthness of it,

47:21

if that makes any sense. It kind

47:23

of got derailed a little bit into

47:25

the little bit into the emotions. So

47:28

understanding that, okay, yeah, this didn't go

47:30

as planned, this would not be how

47:32

I would want to handle any situation

47:35

again, as you were saying, Michelle, no

47:37

better, do better from my Angela, how

47:39

could I do it differently? And write

47:41

it down, I've written down, I've written

47:44

down, I've taken a lot of reflective

47:46

notes on this, and I've written down,

47:48

when I get triggered in this way,

47:50

this is what I want to do.

47:53

When this happens, this is what I

47:55

want to do. Protect yourself, protect your

47:57

safety, protect your peace, protect your sanity,

47:59

protect your feelings. about yourself or protect

48:02

your feelings about situations. And

48:04

so I would just say, have mercy, have

48:06

compassion. And when you come to

48:08

a conclusion of what it is

48:10

you need to do, always forgiving

48:12

yourself or having good feelings for

48:14

yourself, and for me it was getting

48:17

rid of the anger and the frustration

48:19

and the total lack of respect

48:21

because I already made a decision

48:23

of how I'm gonna handle it. I wish

48:25

this person well and I've set the

48:28

boundary. So like kind of letting it go, not kind of

48:30

letting it go, because it's over. Right. You know, don't harbor that,

48:32

oh my gosh, this person was awful or oh my gosh, this

48:34

happened or oh, how did I react that way? Really truly

48:36

let it go and the way you can let it go is

48:38

by actually having a plan. Yeah. Because you said it beautifully. No

48:41

better, do better. Forgive for not knowing what you didn't know before

48:43

you learned it. My angel, the great, my angel. When you have

48:45

a plan, when you have a plan, it's really, it's really,

48:47

when you have a plan. When you have a plan, it's

48:49

really, it's really, it's really, it's really, it's really, it's really,

48:51

it's really, it's really, it's really, it's really, it's really, it's

48:53

really, it's really, it's really, Yeah, I agree, not harboring

48:55

on the past, not beating yourself up.

48:58

You know, when you feel like you're complete

49:00

and your reflection, not letting yourself,

49:02

you know, go back and replay

49:04

things over and over again, understanding

49:06

the triggers and your emotions around

49:09

the triggers and why potentially you're

49:11

feeling triggered by a person or

49:13

a situation, and of course then setting the

49:16

boundaries that, you know, go in line with

49:18

that, realizing, oh no, this is not someone

49:20

that I can... productively communicate

49:22

with. Oh no, this is not

49:24

a situation that brings out the

49:26

best in me. I need to

49:28

set a boundary here to protect

49:30

my peace and so that, you know, we

49:32

can all move forward. And I think

49:35

that's how we heal, that's how we

49:37

learn, that's how we grow, and that's

49:39

how we can feel, you know,

49:41

confident and good on ourselves moment

49:44

moment, even if we, you know, don't

49:46

show up as our best selves. It's like

49:48

we know we're always... taking it

49:50

in to do better next time. And

49:52

that's like, you know, I think all

49:54

we can hope for. I love it. So,

49:57

thanks mom for letting us, you know,

49:59

pick a part. You know, a sensitive

50:01

situation for you for the show. Thanks

50:03

for letting us mine your personal life

50:05

for content. But I think it's really

50:08

helpful because these are, you know, those

50:10

delicate nuances in life that happen that

50:12

can throw us off track and make

50:14

us feel confused and overwhelmed about life

50:17

and the human experience, but it's normal

50:19

to have these instances and to feel

50:21

triggered and have heightened emotions. But it

50:23

doesn't have to take us out and

50:26

make us throw everything away like we're

50:28

bad people. No, and thank you so

50:30

much. That is the purpose of the

50:32

show, to share our personal experiences to

50:35

try to help in any way that

50:37

we possibly can. As we learn, we

50:39

pass along all of our teachings and

50:41

hopefully there's a little nugget here and

50:44

there that maybe a light went off

50:46

and said, oh my gosh, maybe a

50:48

could do that differently. Oh my gosh,

50:51

I just learned something about myself. So.

50:53

That's the whole point and I love

50:55

you and I love all of you

50:57

listening and thank you so much for

51:00

being here. Yep, life happens and we

51:02

just talk about it. So I love

51:04

it. Thank you so much mom again

51:06

for sharing and being so open and

51:09

vulnerable and thank you to all of

51:11

our listeners and our wonderful community for

51:13

being such fabulous supporters of the show.

51:15

We are so grateful for all of

51:18

you each and every single day and

51:20

week. If you haven't yet, make sure

51:22

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51:24

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51:47

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51:49

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51:56

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stacks if you want to join us

52:01

over there. And that should do it

52:03

for this week. Thank you so much

52:05

again for listening and we will chat

52:07

with you next week because as we

52:10

know, Barb knows best. Bye. But a

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