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2:06

Hello, everyone. Hi, friends.

2:08

Welcome back to Barb

2:10

knows best the podcast.

2:12

It is me, Michelle,

2:14

your co-host, and I

2:16

have the pleasure of

2:18

sitting across the table

2:20

from my lovely mother,

2:22

Barb, who tends to

2:24

know best. Hello, Mom.

2:26

Hi, Michelle. Did that make

2:29

you laugh? It did. It made

2:31

me laugh. That is a

2:33

cute take on our podcast.

2:35

You know? You know, the mother knows

2:37

best, but you're my mother,

2:39

so it's Barb. Yes, and I

2:41

think what really the true meaning

2:44

or the true linking of that

2:46

is that all of your life, I

2:48

have, you know, been practicing all kinds

2:50

of things and teaching you

2:52

and all of that, and

2:55

it's kind of cool that

2:57

certainly I'm not the expert

2:59

on everything, but... You've gained

3:01

a lot of insights the same I would say

3:03

yeah, the things that I've gained some really

3:05

tremendous insights on I love sharing with

3:07

you and I've loved raising you and

3:10

I love being Your mother a powerful

3:12

woman in the world Exactly, I love being

3:14

your mother I'm in the world exactly I

3:16

love being your mother I was thrilled When

3:18

you were born it was back in the

3:20

day in 1985 where back in the day Oh

3:22

when I think about it when I when I

3:25

talk to women today with you know the sonograms

3:27

grams and knowing the sex of the things You

3:29

know, I never know that. No, I didn't have

3:31

any of that. So when you were, when

3:34

you were born and you were a

3:36

girl, your dad and I were thrilled.

3:38

I could not be happier to have

3:40

born a daughter. Born? Is that make

3:42

sense? Birth? Birth? Exactly. Oh my

3:44

gosh. I could not have been

3:46

happier for you to have been

3:48

born a daughter, to have birth to

3:51

a daughter, and to have raised a

3:53

daughter, and to have raised a daughter,

3:55

and to, you know, to love you. with

3:57

all the depths of my heart and to be working

3:59

with my daughter. and doing this extraordinary

4:01

work that we do in the

4:03

world and founding Peace of Mind,

4:06

Peace of Life together and so

4:08

many things as a mother-daughter duo.

4:10

So I love you and thank

4:12

you. Well it is a privilege

4:14

to be working with you as

4:16

my mom and my mentor and

4:19

my colleague and you know all

4:21

of that lead in because we're

4:23

recording this episode on Women's Day,

4:25

International Women's Day. So happy International

4:27

Women's Day to everyone, to all

4:29

of our. women supporters to all

4:31

of our men supporters who support

4:34

women, to everyone who identifies as

4:36

a woman, happy women's day,

4:38

to all. You know, I am so

4:40

grateful to know so many strong

4:42

women, to be inspired by so

4:45

many strong women, and to learn

4:47

about love and compassion from, you

4:49

know, so many women in my

4:51

sphere. You know, I fear what

4:53

the world would look like without

4:55

women, without women, and so

4:57

I just... I have a lot

5:00

of gratitude for the energy and

5:02

the strength and the insights that

5:04

women put out in the world

5:07

every single day. I love that

5:09

because it's so true. We have

5:11

amazing women in our circle,

5:14

in our life, and in

5:16

our work. We've met so

5:18

many amazing women. We know

5:20

so many amazing women. And

5:22

truthfully there are billions of amazing

5:25

women in our world. And I

5:27

love that. I love that March

5:29

is Women's Month. Women's History Month,

5:32

yeah. Every month should be Women's

5:34

Month. Well, like it all should be

5:36

the same. We should all be honored.

5:38

All humanity should be honored every month,

5:40

but I love it that we highlight

5:42

women and what they do and what

5:44

they bring to the world and what

5:46

they bring to the lives individually every

5:48

single day of people in the

5:50

world. So it's nice. And I like

5:52

that it is March. I was just going

5:55

to say too. For me March is... a

5:57

little bit, especially since we live

5:59

in Florida. you know, it's really

6:01

warm in March and all

6:03

of that, but March is

6:05

like spring to me. I

6:07

remember living in Chicago thinking

6:09

as March was coming along,

6:11

I often thought, wow, spring is

6:13

in the air, even before we got

6:16

to April. So I love it

6:18

because for me, the idea of

6:20

March being National Women's

6:22

Month or, you know, Women's

6:24

Month in particular, it's really

6:27

a sweet renewal. Oh, for spring.

6:29

I was wondering where the... Yeah,

6:31

really a sweet renewal for spring,

6:34

you know, new energy, fresh energy.

6:36

I feel invigorated, not just because

6:38

it's, you know, women's month. I

6:40

just, for whatever reason, you know,

6:43

I've often said that January 1st

6:45

doesn't feel like the beginning of

6:47

the year. Yeah. I've often said

6:50

that February 1st does, but this

6:52

year for me, February 1st, I

6:54

was still dealing with a lot

6:57

of 2024 issues. a renewal. It

6:59

just feels the days are longer,

7:01

you know, new beginnings. It just

7:04

feels really exciting for me right

7:06

now and hopeful and fresh

7:08

energy, new beginnings. I don't

7:10

know. It just, I love it. I love

7:13

it. And I'm happy that we're speaking

7:15

about the month of March

7:17

and we're speaking about honoring

7:19

women. Yeah. You know, we

7:21

are two women who run this

7:23

show. We have a non-profit

7:25

that is run by women.

7:27

We work with so many amazing

7:30

women. And I think in

7:32

this day and age, we hear a

7:34

lot about why do we need to

7:36

have a Women's History Month

7:38

or why do we need to

7:40

have a Women's Day or

7:43

why are there still

7:45

so many conversations being

7:47

had about women's equality

7:49

and rights and everything like

7:51

that. And I think it's

7:54

important that we

7:56

remember that it

7:58

hasn't always. been equal.

8:00

And even in the not

8:03

so distant past, you know,

8:05

women weren't given the same

8:07

rights. And the

8:09

expectations and the pressures

8:11

and the rules and the

8:14

everything that have been placed

8:16

on women in all cultures.

8:18

I mean, obviously we're

8:20

speaking from our experience

8:22

living in the United

8:25

States as far as societal

8:27

expectations. each part of

8:30

the world has its

8:32

own set of different

8:34

lived experiences, but I

8:36

think across the board,

8:38

you know, women feel added

8:40

burdens and pressures in

8:42

society. And so today we

8:45

wanted to talk about, you

8:47

know, the experiences of women

8:50

and honor the road that

8:52

has been paved before us

8:54

to bring us closer to

8:56

equality. and just to shed

8:59

some light on some of

9:01

the discrepancies that are still

9:03

being faced today, and

9:05

just have a conversation

9:08

about it, you know,

9:10

as two generations of

9:12

women, you know, I have

9:14

a different lived experience

9:17

than even you mom, and

9:19

see what we can, you know,

9:21

come to a conclusion on as

9:23

we are in an interesting time

9:25

in the world. with lots

9:28

of uncertainties, lots of fear

9:30

about what could be to come,

9:32

and how are we going to tackle

9:34

it, and how are we going to

9:36

handle it. I love that. So kind

9:39

of welcoming you all to the space

9:41

where we're going to honor the strength,

9:43

you know, the resilience and the power

9:45

of women, you know, what does it mean

9:47

to be a woman in today's world?

9:49

How the difference is as you said

9:52

two different generations and you know my mother's

9:54

generation was totally different than mine It's kind

9:56

of interesting as I've gotten older to reflect

9:58

on all of that for sure Change is

10:00

inevitable, we know that, nothing stays

10:02

the same, but it's so fascinating,

10:05

it's so powerful to look and

10:07

see, wow, it is really different. And then

10:09

that idea of bracing each

10:11

other, embracing womanhood, embracing

10:13

the strength and confidence,

10:15

sisterhood, you know, and just

10:18

the beauty and the struggle, you know,

10:20

life is dual, it's pain and suffering.

10:22

Yeah, like what does it mean to

10:24

be like women supporting women? You hear

10:26

all of that. Are you a girls

10:29

girl? Are you a woman who supports

10:31

other women? And I think we throw

10:33

these terms around and these expectations around,

10:35

like what do they really mean? What

10:37

does it mean to be a supportive

10:39

woman of all women? What does

10:41

that look like? What is the energy

10:44

that goes out into it? And how can

10:46

we actually, you know, each do our own

10:48

work to... Create supportive spaces for

10:50

women to thrive and survive

10:53

and You know go after

10:55

things that they're passionate about

10:57

and I think that speaks

11:00

to What I said a little

11:02

bit earlier that in life for

11:04

everyone not just women We

11:06

have pain suffering and we

11:08

have joy and we have happiness

11:11

we have it is always two sides

11:13

of the coin. There is never just

11:15

one thing So life is that. So

11:17

for women, we are beauty. We are

11:20

beauty from the inside out. And we

11:22

struggle. So there's two sides of

11:24

that coin. But for me, what I've

11:26

noticed over my 68 years, seem to

11:28

be talking about me being 68 a

11:30

lot on these episodes. It's been in

11:33

your mind a lot lately. We've

11:35

had conversations personally about it as

11:38

well. Yes. So for me thinking

11:40

about women are expected to be

11:42

beautiful. We're expected to look good.

11:45

We're expected to act in a way

11:47

that becomes a young lady, which is what

11:49

I heard as a child. Be nice, you

11:51

know, don't talk too loudly. You know, it

11:53

was just amazing when I think back of

11:55

the things that I was told as a

11:58

child. But then as we fast forward. to

12:00

today, 2025, we as women are

12:02

still expected to look nice, you

12:04

know, be the certain weight or

12:06

have the certain clothes or have

12:08

the certain look. We're expected to

12:11

be beautiful in whatever that means

12:13

to whatever human being is looking

12:15

at us, but beauty is the

12:17

word. And so, but we also

12:19

struggle and we're not really allowed

12:21

so much to talk about the

12:24

struggles. We're kind of expected to

12:26

suck it up. And I know as a young

12:28

person in the... in the working world, I

12:30

was in a man's world way back then

12:32

in 1974. So I was expected to suck

12:34

it up. And I did. I mean, I

12:36

just, because I wanted to be successful, I

12:38

wanted to be powerful, I wanted to have

12:40

all the things that I wanted in my

12:42

life. So I did suck it up. I

12:45

just assumed this is the way that it

12:47

is, and I have to live in this

12:49

man's world. So I never gave any thought.

12:51

That's what's so interesting about living

12:53

today from someone from my generation

12:56

to know I didn't give it

12:58

one thought that it was a man's world

13:00

I just became a man pretty much in

13:02

the man's world like Taylor Swift's the man

13:04

you know exactly I love that song Taylor

13:06

Swift's the man I became a man I

13:08

was the man I'd be the man yeah

13:11

yeah exactly I was the man because I

13:13

didn't give a thought that I was a

13:15

woman that had to be a man

13:17

I just gave a thought that I'm the

13:19

man because I want what I want. I

13:21

wanted to achieve. I wanted to be successful.

13:23

This is what I was expected to do.

13:25

And I didn't want to fight it because

13:27

I knew that I couldn't. But I didn't

13:29

even think that. Well, but I didn't even

13:31

think that it was, it was a thing

13:33

that I had to. I didn't think there

13:36

was anything wrong with me being the

13:38

man. That's why her song is so powerful

13:40

for me. I thought that's what women did.

13:42

I thought that's what life was about,

13:44

really. We had to be the man, because

13:46

the man was the man was the man.

13:48

I know. You also realized in

13:50

your man's world work

13:53

environment that Even though you

13:55

were being the man the double

13:57

standards were still there Oh,

14:00

and you still weren't, you

14:02

know, always moved up the lotter

14:04

like a man would have been. Well,

14:06

for sure, but I think 100%

14:09

it wasn't just like, oh, if

14:11

I emulate a man, then it'll

14:13

be fine. No, no, 100% that

14:15

because I think you're still a

14:17

woman. I think the thing that

14:20

I've, that I felt back then,

14:22

but also that I recognized

14:24

today because of all the... the

14:26

me too movement because of everything that

14:29

has come out it's so wonderful that

14:31

we live in an era right now

14:33

where we actually know the truth now

14:35

we all know we all need to

14:37

just own it and that's been the

14:39

difficulty agree on what's true yeah I

14:42

mean for sure I mean when you

14:44

look at the statistics they bear out

14:46

what I felt way back then but

14:48

never could speak it and now women

14:50

are speaking it which I'm so grateful

14:52

for like one in five women are

14:55

sexually assaulted or have some kind of

14:57

you know, sexual advancement or sexual harassment

14:59

or some kind of sex, which

15:01

makes me crazy. So that goes back

15:03

to what I said. We have to

15:06

be beautiful because men want us

15:08

to be beautiful, but then we

15:10

can't suffer. So if we're sexually

15:12

assaulted or sexually harassed, or in

15:15

some way shape or form in

15:17

the workplace, especially, have some sexual

15:19

innuendo or contact. We're not allowed

15:22

to struggle with it. We're not

15:24

allowed to suffer with it. We

15:26

weren't allowed to even speak about

15:29

it. So we've come a long

15:31

way. But what bothers me today

15:33

and what is so impassionate in

15:35

me today, impassionate. Why I'm so

15:37

impassioned and I'm so passionate today,

15:39

is I just want to know

15:42

why. I just want to know

15:44

from society. I won't even say

15:46

men. We'll just leave that to

15:48

everybody to sort that out. I just

15:51

want to know why when I'm in

15:53

a room and I just had this

15:55

experience recently where it was all men. I'm

15:57

in a room with all men and I'm being

15:59

treated. differently in a

16:01

situation. Yes, a woman in your

16:03

60s who has power, stature, all of

16:06

the things. Everything I could have ever

16:08

wanted for and I have a platform

16:10

that I love so much and I'm

16:12

doing the work that I came here to

16:15

do. I'm so, I'm so... And still, it's

16:17

not enough. And I'm in a room

16:19

with all men. And... White men, I

16:21

might add. I'm being treated totally

16:23

differently. They want to change the

16:26

rules. and they want to now expect

16:28

me to sign a contract that is

16:30

totally different than what all of those

16:32

men had to sign. All of those

16:34

men never got a contract, number one,

16:37

in this project that I'm doing. Not

16:39

only did they never get a contract,

16:41

not only were they allowed to do anything

16:43

that they wanted, now, and the reason

16:45

is because we're in the season, but that's

16:48

not a why, now they want to put

16:50

a contract in place, and if I don't

16:52

sign it, they are going to sue me.

16:54

And I looked and I said... But if you

16:56

were in my same place, let's say the shoes

16:58

are reversed or the situations were first

17:01

and you're in my shoes, wouldn't

17:03

you be doing the same thing? Well, you

17:05

even said, what would you do if you

17:07

were in my situation? If you were in

17:10

my situation, none of them would answer that

17:12

we're not in your situation and

17:14

this is what we're doing. And so it's

17:16

18 against 1. And I'm sitting

17:18

there listening and I'm thinking, what?

17:20

Like I appealed to their... I

17:23

was trying to appeal to their empathy

17:25

or their, you know, thoughtfulness, but

17:27

then I thought I'm appealing to reason, if

17:29

you were in this same situation, what would

17:31

you do? And I expected one of

17:33

them to say, well, this is what

17:35

I would do. No, they wouldn't even

17:38

answer the question. This is what we're

17:40

doing, period. And so they're suing me.

17:42

I'm being sued. Well, that's not totally

17:44

true. But they're... intimidating you. Well they

17:46

they had a lawyer send me a

17:48

letter. Yeah they are. So it'll probably

17:50

I'm not gonna I have my own

17:53

lawyer who says this is absolutely ridiculous

17:55

who happens to be a man. You're being

17:57

bullied by a group of men because

17:59

you are not cow-towing to their demands.

18:01

Exactly. And that is the whole

18:03

point. And they turned it over

18:05

to a lawyer. So anyway, I

18:08

just want to say kudos out

18:10

there. Even in your 60s, it's

18:12

still happening for you. Exactly. And

18:14

it's amazing to me to think about

18:17

where we've come, but what all we

18:19

need to do more. And I think

18:21

the thing that we need, for me,

18:23

I'm feeling strongly about this idea of

18:25

all of us women. What is

18:28

it what you said in the beginning of

18:30

this show Michelle? What does it mean to

18:32

support women? What does it mean to

18:34

speak up? Like all of the women

18:36

have done before us of the black

18:38

women have done the Me Too movement

18:40

all those things that have been happening

18:42

for the past 10 years or more

18:45

It's really powerful and the idea of

18:47

as a woman How can I use

18:49

my voice or how can I use

18:51

my presence in the world? to honor

18:53

everyone, to honor all humanity, that is

18:56

my ethos in life, loving kindness for

18:58

all humanity. It is not about

19:00

a women, I'm only on women's

19:02

side, it's not, it's about how

19:04

can we have all equality and

19:06

all presence and grace and honor

19:08

for all of humanity, that we

19:10

all may step up and thrive

19:12

in the individual lives that

19:14

we're trying to live. So

19:17

I'm excited about this conversation

19:19

and excited about these last...

19:21

years of my life, what

19:23

can I do to support

19:25

humanity and support womanhood in

19:27

a way that honors The

19:30

belief that we are all equal.

19:32

We all we all deserve to

19:34

have The space we deserve to

19:36

have the we deserve to have the

19:38

knowing that we are enough That

19:40

we are not less than that's

19:42

what I'm trying to say.

19:44

It may have been a

19:47

little convoluted because I'm feeling

19:49

very passionate right now

19:51

and very energized, how

19:54

can we know that we are

19:56

enough and that we all are

19:58

more than enough? And that

20:00

one sector of the population, whether

20:02

it be a man, whether it

20:04

be a race, whether it be

20:06

a country, whether it be anything,

20:09

is not more than enough than we

20:11

are. We are all enough. And we

20:13

are all more than enough.

20:15

There's not one category that's

20:18

more than enough than another

20:20

category. So I just, I'm loving this

20:22

in that I use that more than

20:24

enough because you and I had

20:26

the great privilege of doing.

20:29

Elaine Walter Ross book, one of her

20:31

book launches of her book more than

20:33

enough. I don't know how many years ago

20:35

that was, you know, like 2018, I think,

20:37

or 2019. And I love that book. If

20:40

you haven't had a chance to read it,

20:42

I love that book and it's a memoir

20:44

where she talks about her struggles as a

20:46

black woman. And look at her today. I

20:48

just admire her and love her so much,

20:51

but I love humanity so much. So how

20:53

can we start to bridge the gap

20:55

between what is happening happening

20:57

today? and what absolutely

20:59

needs to happen for

21:01

tomorrow. Absolutely, and I think

21:04

it's important to sure that 89%

21:06

of women say they feel, you

21:08

know, pressured to be everything to

21:10

everyone, that they, you know, more

21:12

than half of women experience imposter

21:14

syndrome at work doubting their

21:17

success and their qualifications. You

21:19

know, women are twice as

21:22

likely to experience and

21:24

suffer mental health issues, anxiety

21:26

and depression. And you know,

21:28

when you were just talking

21:30

about everything that you just

21:33

said, you said why? Why, and

21:35

I say, why, why do we

21:37

have these stats? Why are women

21:39

more likely to feel this way

21:42

and to experience life this way?

21:44

And, you know, from my lived

21:46

experience, it's due to

21:49

the inequalities and the

21:51

expectations that are placed upon

21:53

us. And, you know, I

21:55

even remember growing up.

21:58

the mindset or the the tagline

22:00

or the thing of like, you know,

22:02

women can have it all. Women can

22:04

have the career, they can have the

22:07

family, they can have the husband, they

22:09

can have the house, they can have

22:11

the perfect body, you know, women can

22:13

have it all. And you know, I

22:16

don't remember hearing, anyone ever say like

22:18

men can have it all, but I

22:20

used to hear that line and I

22:22

would think, wow, that's so amazing that

22:25

women are being told this. Women should

22:27

be able to. Choose what they

22:29

wanted in some hindsight as

22:31

I've gotten older. It's like

22:34

kind of an unfair expectation

22:36

That women are supposed to

22:38

are supposed to like highlighting

22:40

the word supposed supposed to

22:43

be wanting all of those things

22:45

supposed to be wanting all

22:47

of those things and perfectly

22:50

maintaining all of those things and

22:52

Never letting any aspect

22:54

of it all to slip

22:56

And for me that really

22:58

feels like the big difference

23:01

because I don't ever feel

23:03

or I've never really seen

23:05

men have to face that

23:07

same level of perfectionism

23:10

in all areas of life all

23:12

the time. And to me that's

23:14

just a subtle but huge

23:17

difference in the lived experiences

23:19

where I was just

23:21

talking to someone this past

23:24

week about you. And

23:26

for me that really feels

23:28

like the big difference

23:30

because I don't ever feel

23:33

or I've never really seen

23:35

men have to face that

23:37

same level of perfectionism

23:40

in all areas of life all

23:42

the time. And to me that's

23:44

just a subtle but huge

23:46

difference in the lived experiences

23:49

where I was just talking

23:51

to someone this past week

23:54

about you. I've shared this

23:56

on social media and tried,

23:58

you know, kind of going. through the

24:00

list of my accomplishments so

24:03

far and what we've been

24:05

able to create. And in

24:08

that conversation I mentioned to

24:10

this person that I have

24:13

these conversations quite often where,

24:15

you know, this list of accomplishments

24:17

is acknowledged, but at the

24:20

end of it I'm asked

24:22

by people, well, but what

24:24

about getting married? You know,

24:26

I haven't you met anybody yet?

24:28

Or so when are you going

24:31

to take some time to settle

24:33

down and meet someone? Or what

24:35

are you doing to meet someone?

24:37

Are you dating? Do you have

24:39

the apps? Are you really putting

24:41

yourself out there? Don't you think

24:43

it's time to make that more

24:46

of a priority since everything else

24:48

seems to be going really well

24:50

for you? And those in a

24:52

certain circumstance could be fair questions,

24:54

you know, given who's asking

24:57

them. I'm always finding myself

24:59

so shocked when I can

25:02

list accomplishments and

25:04

things about my life that

25:06

I'm really excited about

25:08

and really proud of

25:10

and things that have

25:12

brought me so much

25:14

fulfillment and people's first

25:16

next question is asking

25:18

me about a man

25:20

or asking me about

25:22

when I'm going to

25:24

prioritize that part of my

25:26

life. insinuating in

25:29

some way that my life

25:31

isn't complete because I don't

25:33

yet have that piece of

25:35

the puzzle figured out yet.

25:37

And I don't know. It makes

25:39

me feel a certain way. I

25:41

don't know if the other half

25:43

of the world experiences that to

25:46

that degree. And that's something

25:48

that across the board

25:50

I experience without question.

25:53

Yeah, I think that is

25:55

the double standard. You know most

25:57

often what we talk about in life

25:59

that that it really truly is that

26:01

way, especially if you are a girl

26:04

or a woman or in any category

26:06

like that, that there is that expectation.

26:08

Society has said that expectation that to

26:10

be successful, you have to have another

26:13

person. Like you can't just be single

26:15

in doing all of these great amazing

26:17

things. And I think my why is

26:19

always like, why do we abide by

26:22

these standards set by society? And yes,

26:24

okay, so I get it. It was

26:26

like that back in the day. And

26:28

people brought up to me, well, Barb

26:31

and the cave man days and all

26:33

those things. They even call it cave

26:35

man, right? The man did this and

26:37

all of that. I get it. I'm

26:39

not trying to change the past. I

26:42

am not trying to say, well, that

26:44

was wrong. I don't know what was

26:46

happening back then. I'm not trying to

26:48

say anything was necessarily in terms of

26:51

that whole cave man days where the

26:53

woman had to stay home and raise

26:55

the kids and the man had to

26:57

do this. I am saying we are

27:00

more educated now. We know we've evolved

27:02

and we've evolved aren't we here on

27:04

this earth to learn and to grow

27:06

and evolve into the the best version

27:09

of who we are I mean that's

27:11

my thought process of why we're here

27:13

in life learn grow and evolve to

27:15

become the best version of who we

27:18

already are from the inside out so

27:20

that's always my why so why is

27:22

it that we have to put other

27:24

people in second place that we have

27:26

to have these society standards Why? And

27:29

so I think that is the question.

27:31

That is the quintessential question that we

27:33

really must ask. Why? Why are we

27:35

still bent? And this doesn't just involve

27:38

women. That's what we're talking about. But

27:40

we can go across all of the

27:42

places in life and the standards that

27:44

we have in life of different people's.

27:47

you know we have all the race

27:49

things that are happening in the world

27:51

and in this country today. All of

27:53

the inequalities and injustices and I guess

27:56

that's the thing so we're focusing on

27:58

women today in Women's History Month just

28:00

I think ask yourself why and you

28:02

did that that stat that you told

28:04

me that women are twice as likely

28:07

as men to be diagnosed with depression.

28:09

And that's a study and a survey

28:11

done by the American Psychological Association. It

28:13

breaks my heart. And I know that

28:16

you know this, you and I both

28:18

know this to be true because we

28:20

work with teenagers as well. So let

28:22

me tell you this other stat. We

28:25

work with a lot of teenagers. We

28:27

work a lot of college-age students. That

28:29

suicide is the second leading cause of

28:31

death. for young people between 10 and

28:34

24. The first cause of death is

28:36

guns. Gun violence. Gun violence. And so

28:38

young adults between the age of 10

28:40

and 24 account for over 15% of

28:43

all suicides. It's like mind-boggling. But then

28:45

this statistic got you and I, especially

28:47

during the pandemic when we were working

28:49

with all of the kids that we

28:51

were working with online, virtually. Girls and

28:54

young women are twice as likely to

28:56

be admitted. to an ER

28:58

for self-harm. Twice as likely, girls.

29:00

It just, it breaks my heart.

29:03

And in 2021, 9% of all

29:05

high school students attempted suicide. And

29:07

the stat goes on to say,

29:09

more frequently reporting young girls. So

29:11

I feel so scared, a little

29:13

bit especially as I've aged. that

29:16

we must change this, we have

29:18

to really start prioritizing equality. We

29:20

have to start prioritizing that a

29:22

woman can't be expected to be

29:24

young and stay beautiful and do

29:26

all of these things that men

29:29

supposedly want from us, but then

29:31

also one in five of us

29:33

are being sexually assaulted, raped, or

29:35

harassed. Like what is the deal

29:37

there? And I think as... As

29:39

women, I want people to start

29:42

waking up to these statistics. I

29:44

want research to start. being front

29:46

and center when we're looking at

29:48

our lives? And how can you

29:50

and I, Michelle, be so passionate

29:53

about this and have this podcast

29:55

and have an all-female team? That's

29:57

why I love shout out to

29:59

the Philadelphia Eagles. Jaylon hurts his...

30:01

All women team? Team is all

30:03

women. But how can we start

30:06

really using our voices a little

30:08

bit more and helping other women,

30:10

especially, all women standing up to

30:12

this? And I'm not saying to

30:14

put men down. I love all

30:16

of humanity. I'm not saying we

30:19

put men down to raise us

30:21

up. I'm saying let's just start

30:23

looking at 2025. And let's start

30:25

looking at what society is trying

30:27

to tell women to do today.

30:29

And I'm only speaking obviously for

30:32

the United States because this is

30:34

where I live. But the idea

30:36

that I have to be thin

30:38

but not too thin. Or that

30:40

I have to say whatever men

30:42

want me to say or have

30:45

to be what I want them

30:47

to be if I want to

30:49

get ahead, especially if I'm in

30:51

the workplace. Or be calm and

30:53

not overreact. Or be seen as

30:55

too emotional. We have to be

30:58

beautiful, but not too smart. I

31:00

can go to Harvard and go

31:02

to be beautiful, but not too

31:04

smart. I can go to Harvard

31:06

and go to Yale and get

31:09

the best job in the world,

31:11

but oh, I have to be

31:13

able to take care of the

31:15

kids. I have to be able

31:17

to do all the things. I

31:19

can be a boss, but oh

31:22

my gosh. Not too bossy. Don't

31:24

be too mean. Don't be that

31:26

bossy lady. You know, I have

31:28

to be a leader. And I'm

31:30

just saying all of those things

31:32

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think the biggest thing that I

35:51

saw recently was this quote that

35:53

really hit with me because I

35:55

have been this person and especially

35:58

having gone to a divorce when

36:00

you were three. And then getting

36:02

remarried and going through the trauma

36:04

of that second marriage and... work

36:07

and all of that and you

36:09

going through all that. It really

36:11

shocked me when I read this

36:13

recently. Women are expected to work

36:15

like they don't have children and

36:18

raise children as if they don't

36:20

work. That's the quote. And that

36:22

really got me. Who said that?

36:24

I saw it. They didn't attribute

36:27

it. I don't know. We'll find

36:29

it. But that really got me

36:31

because I remember when I was

36:33

going to the divorce with your

36:36

dad, my mom called me and

36:38

she felt so bad. You know,

36:40

Barbara, I'm so sorry. You've got

36:42

to raise Michelle. And I know

36:44

mom, don't be sorry for me,

36:47

though, because I have a good.

36:49

you know, caretaker for you when

36:51

I was off working, and then

36:53

when you went to school it

36:56

was easier because I could arrange

36:58

my schedule for that. But I

37:00

had a lot of privilege that

37:02

a lot of women in the

37:05

world and in our country don't

37:07

have today. And she said, but

37:09

still, and she was in that

37:11

generation of being put upon like

37:14

this, but she said, but still,

37:16

but still Barbara, I feel for

37:18

you, this is a lot of

37:20

pressure and a lot of anxiety.

37:22

and a lot of care that

37:25

you have to do to handle

37:27

both sides of it. So she

37:29

was speaking from her experience as

37:31

a woman. And it just, I

37:34

would love for us to start

37:36

giving ourselves grace but giving other

37:38

women grace together and to really

37:40

know that we are enough and

37:43

that we're not to blame and

37:45

we're not the problem. I feel

37:47

like for me, I know that

37:49

was my default. If something went

37:51

wrong, if I wasn't doing what

37:54

I was supposed to do or

37:56

someone didn't like something that I

37:58

did. I always took the blame

38:00

and I felt like maybe I

38:03

was the problem. Because it is

38:05

so much pressure and there's so

38:07

much anxiety. And now with the

38:09

way things are in, you know,

38:12

the economies in the world, but

38:14

the economies in the United States,

38:16

it's hard. There isn't just a,

38:18

most families aren't just a single

38:20

parent working. Both parents are working.

38:23

Well, I like what you said

38:25

that, you know, we are constantly.

38:27

having to navigate. traditions as women.

38:29

And you know it's it's like

38:32

walking a tightrope of living up

38:34

to the expectations but not being

38:36

too much and it's exhausting because

38:38

also it it often feels like

38:41

the goalpost is constantly being moved

38:43

you know you can again like

38:45

I remember when I was a

38:47

kid it's like you dream about

38:49

having a career that you love

38:52

and then you know these days

38:54

it's like okay but how can

38:56

you be like the ultimate girl

38:58

boss and you know if you're

39:01

not making you know the 30

39:03

under 30 list or getting you

39:05

know the praise or social media

39:07

or you're not making X amount

39:10

of money like it's not enough

39:12

like it's like you were saying

39:14

it's constantly feeling like whatever our

39:16

efforts are to be good enough

39:19

or to be smart enough or

39:21

thin enough or strong enough like

39:23

it's never enough. And it's an

39:25

exhausting reality to live within and

39:27

it's frustrating when you realize that

39:30

you know it's a manipulation tactic

39:32

that you know others don't have

39:34

to face. It's just really fascinating

39:36

when you take the time to

39:39

really think about Some of these

39:41

dynamics and how it really impacts

39:43

This massive Section of society on

39:45

like a widespread level And what

39:48

what the impacts are what the

39:50

consequences of this are you know

39:52

I think so often about how

39:54

You know with some of these

39:56

pressures and expectations you know, women

39:59

having to have it all and

40:01

do it all. there's no space

40:03

for you know potential creative outlets

40:05

or hobbies or you know pursuits

40:08

for just the fun of it

40:10

or to even foster you know

40:12

other friendships or relationships that are

40:14

for fun. You know one of

40:17

the things we hear so often

40:19

in some of our workshops and

40:21

in our community is like there's

40:23

no time for for women to

40:25

have fun. and do things for

40:28

fun. Everything always has to have

40:30

a purpose or evolve around kids

40:32

or husbands or families or work.

40:34

That seems to be something that's

40:37

totally cut out of the equation

40:39

for us. And you know what

40:41

are the repercussions of that? When

40:43

you think about emotional and mental

40:46

health and emotional well-being, when you

40:48

think about the expectations and pressures

40:50

for... physical, how we present ourselves

40:52

with, like you said, mom being

40:54

thin but not too thin, looking

40:57

like this, but not like that,

40:59

you know, being provocative, but not

41:01

too provocative. It's like the mind

41:03

games and the, you know, ability

41:06

for all of this to etch

41:08

away at our connection with ourselves

41:10

and how we perceive ourselves and

41:12

how we perceive ourselves and how

41:15

we perceive ourselves and how we

41:17

perceive ourselves. and our own mental

41:19

health again it suffers and it's

41:21

just a lot to navigate and

41:23

no wonder you know that quote

41:26

or that stat that women are

41:28

more likely to be anxious and

41:30

depressed. Hello like thinking about all

41:32

of that made me anxious and

41:35

I think the whole purpose and

41:37

the point of having this conversation

41:39

today on our podcast is not

41:41

to just you know, talk about

41:44

all the grievances and like you

41:46

were saying, Michelle, these are all

41:48

the truths. Talk about all the

41:50

grievances and all the things that

41:53

we all withstand. Michelle and I

41:55

are having this conversation. Because we

41:57

want women to stand together. It's

41:59

like, let's look at the truth.

42:01

And where can all women band

42:04

together and not in being necessarily,

42:06

revolutionally, externally, externally? You know, like

42:08

we don't have to go, you

42:10

can, and there are many people

42:13

that do, and I honor and

42:15

love and support that, but there

42:17

are many ways to stand up

42:19

for women. There are many ways

42:22

to stand up together. And for

42:24

me, it's the idea how we

42:26

can stand together. and we can

42:28

lift each other up and we

42:30

can do what we can to

42:33

continue to speak truth. For me,

42:35

this episode is about how can

42:37

we as women stand together in

42:39

truth in any little tiny way

42:42

we can in our own lives?

42:44

And I say this with the

42:46

idea that we already know there's

42:48

impossible standards. We already know all

42:51

of these things, but we kind

42:53

of glaze over it if we're

42:55

not really understanding the truth of

42:57

it. And I think when you

42:59

were talking, Michelle, it reminded me

43:02

that other staff that you and

43:04

I were talking about, that over

43:06

50%, like 50.5, close to 51

43:08

now, percent of the population in

43:11

the United States is women. So

43:13

this is only going to keep

43:15

growing, is women. So the idea

43:17

that how can we, it's like

43:20

the why, for me it's the

43:22

why, how can we, how can

43:24

we, When we're in a group,

43:26

I'll give you an example of

43:28

something that I know happened, that

43:31

a friend of mine just experienced.

43:33

So she's an immigrant, and she

43:35

became a high-powered president in an

43:37

organization. Like she became the president

43:40

of an organization. I mean, and

43:42

she's an immigrant, and she's the

43:44

first generation of her family to

43:46

even go to school. First generation

43:49

of her family obviously then to

43:51

get all the things necessary she

43:53

worked away all the way up

43:55

to having a PhD immigrant female

43:58

in a really high powered presidency

44:00

and in the past few months

44:02

she was told that it came

44:04

up time for her to reapply for

44:06

the job or to be promoted not

44:09

promoted what's the word I'm trying to

44:11

think of she was going to

44:13

be replaced yeah they were talking

44:15

about replacing her and couldn't really

44:18

give her any reasons for replacement but

44:20

they were going to be replacing

44:22

her and it just happened recently that

44:25

she got replaced And so my moral

44:27

of this story is, so now a

44:29

man, a man is in the job.

44:31

But my moral of the story of

44:33

all of this is, and it's not

44:35

about that, because we see this happening

44:37

all the time in the United States,

44:39

and probably around the world. I'm certainly

44:41

not only speaking here, this is just

44:43

my experience. But what's happening now is,

44:45

as I've talked about it, in supporting

44:48

her. And as I've talked about it

44:50

in my circle of people, in my circle

44:52

of women, all age groups, all people, there

44:54

have been a vast number of women who

44:56

will say to me, but she's still going

44:59

to make out really good. She's still going

45:01

to have a great deal of money. She's

45:03

still going to have a great deal of

45:05

ability to get a job that's really

45:08

fantastic. She's still, she's still, she's

45:10

still. And if she doesn't, you know,

45:12

she does all the things that she needs to

45:14

do, it, it, it's all going to be okay.

45:16

And I pushed back on that, I'm like,

45:19

yes, all of that is true, and she

45:21

knows all of that to be true,

45:23

but that's not the truth. Well, it's

45:25

not the point either. Well, it's not

45:27

the real truth. The real truth is

45:30

she worked hard for decades and

45:32

decades to get to where she was,

45:35

only to replace not on her work

45:37

and not on her merit, but

45:39

because she was a woman. And

45:41

so it's very interesting to me,

45:43

though, in talking to other women,

45:46

that... the pushback is yeah but she's

45:48

still going to be great she's still going

45:50

to be okay and if she does everything

45:52

right look at her future could be really

45:54

bright and amazing and so I just want

45:56

to push back a little bit on that

45:58

and the whole point of this is Let's

46:00

honor that it is a reality

46:02

in this country that you

46:04

can do all the things that

46:06

you're supposed to do. You can

46:09

do an extraordinary

46:11

job. Every woman that I

46:13

know says she's remarkable

46:15

in what she has done, but

46:17

still be replaced by a man.

46:20

It still wasn't enough. It wasn't

46:22

enough. And so the point for

46:24

me of this episode is you

46:27

are enough. You are more than enough.

46:29

And yeah, she will thrive. She will

46:31

go on and, you know, as you

46:33

and I talk about so much

46:35

on the show, you know, every

46:37

rejection is redirection. She will go

46:39

on and she will thrive because

46:41

she is extraordinary. But the point

46:43

of what I'm saying is, let's not

46:46

make it open, let's not say things

46:48

like, but she will be okay. Let's

46:50

say this is horrible. It should never

46:52

happen. What can, what little thing

46:55

can I say and do. in my little

46:57

sphere of the of the of the of

46:59

the conversation whenever this is happening to

47:01

first and foremost say this is not okay

47:03

and I don't stand for this and then

47:05

we can say yes we're going to support

47:07

her in every way that we can because we

47:09

love her because we know that she's

47:12

extraordinary but let's not normalize that

47:14

this is okay and that if she just

47:16

does all the right thing she's still going to

47:18

be okay let's push back on it first. It's

47:21

not okay. Well, it's accepting,

47:23

you know, this backwards behavior

47:25

and then saying, oh, but

47:27

she's so good, she can rise

47:29

above it. And that's what you

47:32

are often told during your divorce.

47:34

Yes. When you were faced

47:36

with, you know, bad behavior from

47:38

your ex-husband, so many people, women

47:41

included, oh, but you're so much

47:43

better, just rise above it, just

47:46

rise above it. Why should we

47:48

be expected to constantly rise

47:50

above men's bad behavior and it

47:53

when the rules are never reversed?

47:55

Exactly, and I want to just

47:57

put a little caveat in here

47:59

that every Everything women are saying

48:01

is night. I mean, it's supportive. It's

48:04

good. I just want to put a

48:06

caveat here. I'm not trying to make

48:08

this a bashing of women that aren't

48:11

supporting other women. I'm trying to make

48:13

this an awareness. Let's really look at,

48:15

yes, they were helping me through my

48:17

pain and suffering of the divorce and

48:20

the utter just really terribleness of how

48:22

it all went down from. behaviors on

48:24

his side, which was nice. It was

48:27

nice, yes, but I also on the

48:29

same side, we can't normalize and think

48:31

that, oh well then now it's all

48:34

okay. You know, like I think that's

48:36

the really fine line that we as

48:38

women have to start looking at and

48:41

how do we start to erase that

48:43

fine line a little bit and start

48:45

to push back a little bit? You

48:47

know, I went through a very hard

48:50

time there for a little while in

48:52

the beginning. because of how hard, because

48:54

of how difficult the whole thing was.

48:57

And yes, I needed the support of

48:59

all my women friends, which was phenomenal.

49:01

But there's still that little piece in

49:04

there that where some people were saying,

49:06

yes, but, you're gonna rise, which is

49:08

true, and I love that support. So

49:11

I just, I don't want this to

49:13

sound like it's a bashing or that

49:15

we don't want that to. We want

49:18

that and, I think is what I'm

49:20

trying to say. It's never just, it

49:22

isn't always not never, I don't like

49:24

to resort never. It isn't always this

49:27

or that. It's and. And, and can

49:29

we, little by little as a woman

49:31

in the world today, just push back

49:34

a little bit in ways that we

49:36

can. And don't just always suck it

49:38

up and say, well, this is the

49:41

way it is, there's nothing I can

49:43

do. So for me, this is like

49:45

kind of. cracking the window open a

49:48

little bit in this episode of, is

49:50

there a place in life where you

49:52

can actually champion another woman or help

49:54

her or like push back in a

49:57

circle? where people might be saying she

49:59

should be lucky. She should feel lucky.

50:01

There are no other voices supporting her.

50:04

Yes, not be the person in the

50:06

room, you know, that allows, gives, offers

50:08

grace to the woman and says, wait

50:11

a minute, but the time has come

50:13

that we need to start making steps

50:15

forward to change this. You know, in

50:18

understanding that it's hard. It takes a

50:20

lot of courage and that's why I

50:22

think it's so important that we understand

50:24

how strong and powerful we are as

50:27

humans, but especially women in this because

50:29

we're talking about women, that we have

50:31

the power, we are strong enough, we

50:34

are enough, we can lift another woman

50:36

up and we can push back in

50:38

a small way where necessary and not

50:41

just be in the conversation afraid to

50:43

say, but wait a minute, this is

50:45

still wrong. This is happening, and she's

50:48

incredible, but it's not okay. So that's

50:50

the thing. I think adding that it's

50:52

not okay goes a long way, because

50:54

it really sends the message, okay, I'm

50:57

accepting it right now, because there's nothing

50:59

I can do about it in this

51:01

moment, but the one thing that I

51:04

can do about it in this moment

51:06

is reject it, and say it's not

51:08

okay, but I know that's the way

51:11

it is right now. And speak our

51:13

truth about it. We are in a

51:15

situation often that we are overlooked because

51:18

we are a woman. We're not paid

51:20

the same because we are a woman,

51:22

all the things. But how can we

51:24

start owning our own integrity, but also

51:27

owning our own value, our worthiness, and

51:29

that we are more than enough, and

51:31

that we can be strong and humble

51:34

at the same time? I view myself

51:36

as a very strong, powerful woman. I

51:38

come across as aggressive as aggressive. Many

51:41

people you always say to me mom

51:43

can you dial it back a little

51:45

bit you're you're a little too loud

51:48

and us you know what I say

51:50

to her and this is what's so

51:52

beautiful and she doesn't take I'll say

51:55

I know I am loud and she'll

51:57

look at me and she'll say I

51:59

know and I'm a little bit softer

52:01

than you are right and like we

52:04

own each other we love each other

52:06

for who we are like it's okay

52:08

to speak your truth but don't expect

52:11

the other person to to have that

52:13

same way but allowing each other to

52:15

be who they are I guess that

52:18

that come off right and like working

52:20

through these these contradictions of that We

52:22

have to be soft but not powerful.

52:25

I don't I just don't I'm not

52:27

that way and I never will be

52:29

that way I can't be it's not

52:31

how he's made right I think it's

52:34

because I had to be a man

52:36

had to be the man and so

52:38

we can be independent and nurturing but

52:41

also be strong and confident so my

52:43

feeling so strongly and passion in this

52:45

episode is can we my call out

52:48

to all women listening to this is

52:50

like own who you are who you

52:52

are know you're more than enough, and

52:55

don't feel like you have to shrink

52:57

and be something that you're not, and

52:59

have to, yes, we have to navigate,

53:01

yes, we have to do all of

53:04

that. I'm not saying, you know, don't

53:06

navigate, put your stake in the sand

53:08

right now, because that will not help

53:11

you right now. I'm not trying to

53:13

say that, be one or the other.

53:15

I'm trying to say, as you always

53:18

say in episodes, Michelle, let's find the

53:20

great. be exactly who you are and

53:22

take a stand and push back. I

53:25

guess, I don't know, I'm just, I

53:27

keep, I feel like I keep repeating.

53:29

Those little places where you step in

53:31

and make your truth, you know, heard

53:34

or your voice heard or support, you

53:36

know, be the voice in the room

53:38

if there is none. You know, Jane

53:41

Goodall said what you do may be

53:43

too small to matter, but it matters

53:45

that you do it. Right. That's some

53:48

version of the quote that she did

53:50

and in. in one of her latest

53:52

books. And I read that, and actually

53:55

you and I had the privilege of

53:57

hearing her speak and bringing her to

53:59

the university here. several years ago. But

54:01

her saying that, and I read that

54:04

in her book, it just gave me

54:06

so much strength and gave me so

54:08

much power because sometimes we feel like

54:11

it doesn't matter what we do because

54:13

it's too small. It's not going to

54:15

make a difference. Right. And so I'm

54:18

saying today, during women's month, anything that

54:20

we can do is another woman. And

54:22

I'm also appealing to men, and I

54:25

know so many beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, strong.

54:27

men, supportive men, and lovely men, and

54:29

lovely men, and men that I love,

54:32

and honoring men. I just had dinner

54:34

with one that's extraordinary, extraordinary. He could

54:36

be giving this talk on this episode

54:38

today. So I'm not just singling out

54:41

women, but today I'm just speaking to

54:43

women. I feel like it's an honor

54:45

for us to find our truth in

54:48

any situation and not shrink from it

54:50

or shy away from it. No matter

54:52

how teeny tiny it is. So if

54:55

another woman is being passed over for

54:57

a man, or if another woman is

54:59

not being treated in a way that

55:02

you would wish that they would be

55:04

treated, because especially if you love them

55:06

and care for them and you know

55:08

that they deserve it, you know, speak

55:11

up in some little small way. Push

55:13

back. You know, not in a way

55:15

that necessarily harms you and causes you

55:18

pain and suffering, but in a way

55:20

that lets you stand your ground. Yeah,

55:22

and being a voice. You

55:25

know or even if you have a

55:27

woman in your life that is going

55:29

through a similar situation start off by

55:31

saying You are right. This is wrong

55:33

validating other women's experiences Yes, and I

55:35

am so sorry that you still have

55:37

to be going through this all these

55:40

decades later and I really Love and

55:42

appreciate and honor You as an immigrant

55:44

for one, but not just an immigrant

55:46

It can be any woman, but you

55:48

as an immigrant have I am so

55:50

proud of you and I love you

55:53

so much and I am so, and

55:55

I am so inspired by you and

55:57

what all of these... you have done

55:59

and I know that this is not

56:01

right but I do know that it

56:03

will evolve differently as we

56:06

move forward in life and I will do

56:08

my small part well I also know that

56:10

you're so strong and powerful and you're

56:12

going to thrive you know that right

56:14

as you said Michelle yeah well

56:16

I know I've often heard you

56:19

say in some of your challenges

56:21

and difficulties over the past few

56:23

years like you just want to

56:25

feel supported and validated in your

56:27

feelings and your experiences and just

56:29

seen, heard and understood. And

56:32

I think that's huge,

56:34

that we do that for other

56:36

women, that we validate

56:39

their experiences and let

56:41

them know that their

56:43

feelings are valid and that

56:46

their lived experiences are

56:48

real. And, you know, that... There's

56:51

so much gas lighting that happens for

56:53

so many of us that no that

56:55

was what happened like you know when I

56:58

was you were talking about that situation

57:00

with You know being in that conversation

57:02

with all the men and You know I

57:04

was in the room listening to it

57:06

with you. So I validate like no

57:08

that happened. They were acting that way towards

57:10

you and differently towards the other men

57:12

You know reinforcing what's true so that

57:14

we can remember and not you know

57:16

when people want to second guess

57:19

or doubt like no you're right

57:21

that did happen thank God you

57:23

just said that Michelle because that

57:25

was so vital and you just

57:27

made me think of something in

57:29

situations like that that's exactly

57:32

what you said you said mom I

57:34

can't believe when when it was over

57:36

you heard the conversation I can't believe

57:38

that you were right this was unbelievable

57:41

But then you didn't extend it and

57:43

say, but you're going to be strong

57:45

and it's all going to be OK.

57:47

So I want to amend a little

57:49

bit about what I said earlier in

57:52

this situation with my friend. Just that

57:54

sometimes, because it's really grief, it's a

57:56

loss. It's like, oh my God, I

57:58

just got, I don't know. taken down 20

58:00

pegs or whatever, I just got really,

58:03

what do you call it Michelle? I'm

58:05

trying to think of the word that

58:07

I'm looking for. It is like a

58:09

grief or a loss or you have

58:11

to actually take a moment to breathe

58:13

that this just happened to me because

58:15

it's so egregious. And so I want

58:17

to amend a little bit that what

58:20

this friend of mine is going through,

58:22

what you said to me was perfect.

58:24

and you didn't take it to and

58:26

mom you're going to be okay. Don't

58:28

even add that. If you're in a

58:30

conversation with a friend who is going

58:32

through what I just said about my

58:34

friend, sometimes the best thing you can

58:37

say and this is what they say

58:39

and what I really love when someone

58:41

has experienced a death or a divorce

58:43

or a major major loss, really you

58:45

just want to hear the person talk

58:47

about what their feelings are and validate

58:49

them. It's at a later date that

58:51

you can say... You know, I know

58:54

you're struggling and this has been so

58:56

horrible and I'm here for you and

58:58

I'll do anything that you need to

59:00

help you and support you. You don't

59:02

need to tell them they're going to

59:04

be okay, that they're going to thrive

59:06

and they're going to have the greatest

59:08

job later. Maybe later that can come,

59:11

but in the very beginning it's really

59:13

important. You, I can't tell you the

59:15

gift that you gave me. I was

59:17

so happy that you have that I

59:19

asked you to be on the other

59:21

side of the table and listen. I

59:23

asked you to be on the other

59:25

side of it because it made all

59:28

the difference in the world for me

59:30

because it was so horrible and I,

59:32

you know, as women sometimes will say,

59:34

what I do wrong, what I say

59:36

wrong, but you validated mom, that was

59:38

really bad, that was so egregious. Right.

59:40

That was horrible, the way that they

59:42

treated it and the way that they

59:45

talked to you. So thank you for

59:47

that, and I think that that's really

59:49

a part of this conversation today is...

59:51

in many instances just listen to the

59:53

woman in your life that is struggling

59:55

because of being treated inequitable or being

59:57

treated unfairly or being treated badly and

59:59

they might be feeling like oh my

1:00:02

gosh what did I do wrong and

1:00:04

questioning their worth or questioning their ability

1:00:06

to speak up and maybe I shouldn't

1:00:08

I say this too often sometimes maybe

1:00:10

I shouldn't have spoken too loudly maybe

1:00:12

I shouldn't have said that and thinking

1:00:14

they needed to shrink or thinking I

1:00:16

needed to step back so it's really

1:00:19

important to let people especially if you're

1:00:21

a woman to another woman to have

1:00:23

their feelings and not feel like they

1:00:25

have to shape-shift into something other than

1:00:27

who they are. Yeah absolutely. It's

1:00:30

a lot, but I think ultimately

1:00:32

what we wanted to take this

1:00:34

week in this month to remember

1:00:36

is that if you're feeling a

1:00:38

certain way remembering that you know

1:00:40

you are always enough despite any

1:00:42

of the external pressures or expectations,

1:00:45

you know, you're enough. Your worthiness

1:00:47

is inherent, you know, and really

1:00:49

if nothing else seek to take

1:00:51

that in and to own it.

1:00:53

Of course, like we talked about.

1:00:55

celebrating and supporting the women in

1:00:57

your life, you know, being the

1:01:00

voice for them or validating them

1:01:02

when they need it or standing

1:01:04

up for them when maybe they're

1:01:06

being, you know, pushed aside, you

1:01:08

know, that matters. It's important. It

1:01:10

lifts women up and, you know,

1:01:12

and it shows, it's like, you

1:01:15

know, that phrase, you know, show

1:01:17

people how you want to be

1:01:19

treated. That shows everyone how, you

1:01:21

know, women. should be treated, you

1:01:23

know, with support and with care

1:01:25

and kindness. And, you know, I

1:01:27

think just having these conversations, even

1:01:30

though they might be uncomfortable or,

1:01:32

you know, ruffling feathers, maybe, whatever

1:01:34

that might be, it's, like you

1:01:36

said, Mom, it's speaking of what's

1:01:38

true for us. And I would

1:01:40

never want anyone to think that

1:01:42

because we've reached some sort of

1:01:45

level of success that like we

1:01:47

don't experience it too. You know,

1:01:49

it was shocking for me to

1:01:51

see that happened to you. I,

1:01:53

you know, you know, you know,

1:01:55

you know, There's no way in

1:01:57

that situation with the men that

1:02:00

were... referring to. And it was

1:02:02

true. So it does happen. And

1:02:04

it's important that we talk about

1:02:06

it so that no one feels

1:02:08

alone in their experiences. And so

1:02:10

I hope that this conversation has

1:02:12

validated any experiences that you might

1:02:15

have had or feelings that you

1:02:17

might be feeling and just knowing

1:02:19

that you're not alone. and that

1:02:21

you know we're here to be

1:02:23

a support and a community that

1:02:25

can lift you know all of

1:02:27

us up. I love that Michelle

1:02:29

and I have I have men

1:02:32

in my life that have heard

1:02:34

this story of what happened and

1:02:36

they are so supportive and really

1:02:38

they're apologetic I'm so sorry that

1:02:40

this happened to you. This should

1:02:42

not be happening today so... This

1:02:44

isn't about a man-bashing episode, this

1:02:47

really is all the men out

1:02:49

there. I really honor and love

1:02:51

how supportive you are, and I

1:02:53

think we can do this together.

1:02:55

And I think the idea too

1:02:57

of just really being who you

1:02:59

are as a woman, you know,

1:03:02

maybe redefining success or, you know,

1:03:04

being living life on your own

1:03:06

terms and embracing who you are,

1:03:08

you know, setting the boundaries where

1:03:10

necessary, and allowing yourself to exist.

1:03:12

You and I've talked about this

1:03:14

a lot lately. maybe tease the

1:03:17

next episode or next episode to

1:03:19

come. You know, allowing yourself to

1:03:21

exist without apology. I love that.

1:03:23

Yeah, I love you, Michelle. I

1:03:25

love all of you listening today.

1:03:27

And thank you for being the

1:03:29

women and the men in our

1:03:32

lives who are supportive and loving

1:03:34

and caring. Amen, mother. Yes, thank

1:03:36

you so much for listening. And

1:03:38

of course, Happy Women's Day, Happy

1:03:40

Women's Month. You know, this is

1:03:42

a show that's, you know. over

1:03:44

a majority of the statistics are

1:03:47

women listeners. So we are so

1:03:49

grateful to have you all and

1:03:51

to be in conversation with you

1:03:53

all about some of these challenging

1:03:55

but important topics that we can

1:03:57

discuss together and find solutions and.

1:03:59

tips and tricks to move through it

1:04:01

as we navigate it together. So thank you

1:04:04

so much for listening and being such a

1:04:06

supportive community. We are so grateful for all

1:04:08

of you. If you haven't yet, make sure

1:04:10

you're liked and subscribed to the podcast

1:04:13

or ever you listen to podcasts so

1:04:15

that you're always up to date with

1:04:17

each new episode as it drops. If

1:04:19

you're loving the show, give us a

1:04:21

five-star rating on iTunes and Spotify and

1:04:23

leave us a review. We are so

1:04:26

grateful when you do so. questions, comments,

1:04:28

concerns, or future podcast topic requests. Make

1:04:30

sure you're following us on social media

1:04:32

at Peaceful Barb, at Michelle Marrows, at

1:04:34

Barbnose Best, pod. That's always the best

1:04:36

way to stay in touch with us.

1:04:38

There's a couple links in our show

1:04:41

notes for our sub stack if you

1:04:43

want to catch us over on that

1:04:45

platform. And stay tuned for lots of

1:04:47

fun announcements and updates in the new

1:04:50

future. We're really excited for what 2025

1:04:52

has in store for the show and

1:04:54

for our community. Thank you so much

1:04:56

again for listening. Thank you mom and

1:04:58

we will chat with you next week

1:05:01

because as we know Barb knows best. Bye.

1:05:17

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