0:05

There's a theater festival up in Massachusetts

0:07

called Williamstown. It attracts a lot of

0:09

wealthy Manhattanites who are vacationing. And I

0:12

was driving around once with Sam

0:14

Rockwell and Philip Seymour Hoffman. I had this

0:16

farting app. I plugged it into my speakers

0:18

and I would crank it up and I

0:21

would stop and ask these wealthy people in

0:23

khakis and salmon shirts where, you know, the

0:25

theater was. And they would say, um, I

0:27

think it's over. And then I would... And

0:29

they started raising their voices to, you know,

0:31

give me the directions over the farts. It's

0:34

over. It's the eternal

0:36

left here. Rarely have I

0:38

heard two people laugh as hard as Phil and Sam

0:41

were laughing in the backseat. I mean, obviously they had

0:43

ducked down. You know, if these

0:45

people had seen them, they would have seen two of America's

0:48

greatest actors cracking up over farts.

0:57

And I'm wondering, this is Justin Long and you

0:59

are listening to Life is Short. Here

1:08

as always with my brother, Christian. Yes.

1:11

Hello, everybody. A man. A

1:13

man that I've known for 37 years. I don't know why it's

1:15

so weird to me that you referred to me as a man.

1:17

I don't think you've ever done that before. I've never done that.

1:20

I literally don't think... It was weird when it came out of

1:22

my mouth. You've never referred to me as a man. But I

1:24

don't know why that's weird because I'm certainly... I don't think of

1:26

you as a man. But thanks. Like a

1:28

man. When I think of a man, I think of

1:30

the bouncing man. Like a manly man? Yeah. Not

1:32

all men have to be manly men. Mr. Clean. That's

1:35

what you think of for a man? Like

1:37

a lumberjack. Like a shiny cartoon. Like bald

1:40

cartoon. I understand

1:42

your conception of masculinity now. Okay,

1:44

I'm not a manly man, but I'm a man regardless. You are

1:46

a man. Well,

1:48

you've never called me a man. I know. I

1:52

don't think of myself as a man. This is

1:55

a much bigger problem than I'm realizing. So

1:57

every week we're gonna unravel problems like this. So

2:00

this very special interview

2:03

was actually the very first one we

2:05

recorded. So we'll always hold a special

2:07

place in our hearts. Sam

2:10

is someone that we chose as the first

2:12

guest because of how

2:14

well we know him and

2:16

how comfortable we are with him. And we

2:18

thought that would be much easier

2:20

and comfortable. Sam has

2:22

also been a part of, he was in

2:25

the first movie I did. He was in the first professional

2:27

play. Christian and I wrote a movie a

2:29

couple years ago and he was in that. I mean he's been...

2:31

He was part of your first sexual experience. That's

2:34

right. That's right. He was in my first fivesome.

2:37

Sam has been a friend of mine,

2:39

a very dear friend of mine for

2:41

over, geez, over 20 years now. And

2:44

he was kind enough to do this obviously before

2:46

it was a show, before it

2:48

was a thing at all. And so he

2:50

didn't have to do it. He's now at a point

2:53

in his career where he can do anything he wants.

2:55

And I just really

2:57

appreciated him coming on. And he showed

2:59

up looking very gaunt and bald.

3:01

Oh yeah, you hadn't seen him in that

3:03

movie. I hadn't seen him. So he was

3:06

shooting Fosse-Verdon on FX. So

3:08

I was immediately thrown off by how different

3:10

he looked. What did he look like? You

3:12

said he looked like a bird. I don't

3:14

know. He always looked a

3:16

little bit like a bird. He just looked like a thinner bird.

3:19

Like a plucked... He looked

3:21

very plucked and tiny, but he always looks different.

3:23

I mean, it kind of made sense to me

3:25

that, oh, he's playing Bob Fosse in this thing.

3:28

And he looks like a totally different person because that's

3:30

what he does. Yeah, totally. I mean, he's

3:32

a chameleon. I know. I

3:34

hate to use it, but it is. But it applies. It

3:36

really does apply. And I now can't wait as his friend for

3:38

many reasons. I can't wait till he plays like Mario Batali or

3:41

somebody because... Mario Batali's

3:43

comeback story. Yeah. Or

3:46

his demise story. They'll

3:48

cover everything in the Batali biopic. But

3:51

it'll be fun to watch him eat a

3:53

lot and to just see him as a

3:55

heavy person. And so the

3:57

difficulty in interviewing him was that so much... of

4:00

what we share is personal,

4:03

is kind of like nights out

4:05

and drinking and, you know. My perspective is

4:07

that I've been out with you guys and

4:09

I've seen people come up

4:11

to you and kind

4:14

of treat you like a zoo animal and like

4:16

a piece of meat and they're like, oh, you're

4:18

the guy from waiting and they, you know, can

4:20

I get a picture? And they're kind of like

4:23

hostile, like aggressive sometimes. And then with him, they're

4:25

like, I'm sorry to bother you. I'm a

4:27

huge fan of your work. Keep

4:29

on providing the world with your art,

4:32

you know, and with you, it's like,

4:34

good, good selfie. So he's-

4:37

Tussling my hair. Yeah, he's always

4:39

been, I would say he's always

4:41

been like a quote unquote cool,

4:43

respected, obviously gifted

4:45

actor. But now it's weird in the

4:47

last year or two since he's become

4:49

this like mainstream, like award winning, Oscar

4:52

winning good actor,

4:54

which so we're going

4:56

to talk to him about that. Yeah. If

4:58

that changed him. How that's changed. A

5:00

testament to his character and who he

5:03

is as a person and as a

5:05

friend is that he, from my perspective,

5:07

has remained unchanged throughout all of this,

5:09

all the hoopla, you know, all the award

5:11

stuff and now becoming like

5:14

our Gary Oldman. He's great. And

5:16

he's spoiler alert. He's

5:18

great. And Fosse Verdon. Bob Fosse, the

5:20

famous choreographer from the 50s, 60s, 70s.

5:22

And we will talk about his career,

5:24

his whole career from Box Moonlight to

5:27

his most recent role is W in Vice. And

5:29

we'll talk about roles that he didn't take, which

5:32

I always think is interesting with those great actors.

5:34

I was nervous as hell doing this, but

5:37

I'm excited for you to hear it. We'll

5:39

be right back with Sam Rockwell, right

5:41

after the break. Dude,

5:45

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8:00

I like anything 70s. My mom the

8:02

other day said, you're so excited

8:04

your ass is gonna water. She

8:07

said it sarcastically. Really good, I like that. What

8:09

does that even mean? I

8:11

don't know and I said to her, I

8:13

said that very thing, what does that mean? She's like, you

8:15

know, that's a thing you used to say all the time.

8:19

And I said, I've never heard

8:21

those words together. And she

8:23

said it sarcastically like, oh yeah, I'm

8:26

so excited, my ass is gonna water.

8:28

That's amazing. Does

8:30

that mean like you have the runs? Or what does that mean? I've

8:33

never thought of having a watery ass is a good thing. But

8:38

I've known you for about 20 years. And

8:40

I guess- Is it 20 years, is it

8:42

more than 20? It'll be 20 this year, April's. No,

8:46

it'll be 20, Galaxy Quest we shot in

8:49

the fall. What was it? Is

8:51

that 20 years? Fall of 1999, summer

8:53

of 1999. And so what,

8:56

that's when I, and I had heard people talking about

8:59

you. I remember on

9:01

the way to set, of course Tim Allen and Sigourney

9:03

Weaver were people that I knew, but

9:05

I remember hearing your name and actors. I

9:08

just dropped out of school. So I was

9:10

around a lot of young actors and- Vassar?

9:12

At Vassar, yeah. So

9:15

everybody was kind of talking about you. But

9:18

I was of course excited to see Sigourney

9:20

Weaver and to these big stars. And

9:24

you were the one guy on the set that really took

9:27

me under your wing. And I could relate

9:29

to, and we became pals. But-

9:32

We were close enough in age that it was, yeah,

9:35

that it was cool. It was like, it

9:37

made sense. Yeah, also I wasn't,

9:39

I didn't know you then. And then I got

9:41

to know you. And then we did a play

9:43

about a year later. And during that time I

9:45

watched Box of Moonlight and Lawn Dogs and Safe

9:48

Men. And I really, I became a fan. So

9:50

we were friends initially. And then I wanted to

9:52

know all these things that I guess I never

9:54

asked you. So now I can ask you. When

9:57

you did Box of Moonlight,

10:00

Would you say that was the first, was that

10:02

the first, the moment that you felt like,

10:04

oh, now I can be an actor and I'm

10:06

no longer. Yeah, that was one

10:08

of the first jobs after delivering

10:11

burritos on a bicycle, I guess that was, well,

10:13

no, I didn't do New York. I was in

10:15

New York and I got

10:17

in this car accident and I messed up my

10:19

hand and we were waiting for

10:21

the money and I was,

10:24

I did, I was doing restaurant jobs. I

10:26

was starting to do more commercials and movies

10:28

and I was starting to get work episodic

10:31

law and order, then I waited a long time

10:33

for them to get the financing. He finally got

10:35

John Totturo. So yeah,

10:37

that, yeah, that led to Jerry and Tom

10:40

with movie assault Rubenick and that led to

10:42

Safeman and that led to lawn dogs. Okay.

10:45

I was going to do GI Jane

10:47

and I dropped out

10:49

of the bootcamp because it

10:51

was just getting just, I just had to get

10:53

out of there. And it was intense

10:55

bootcamp. It was in, well, it was fun actually,

10:58

but I was at that time very

11:01

skinny. I had no body fat and they were, we

11:03

were in the water and I was like, I

11:06

was just, I just couldn't handle the

11:08

cold. I was just, couldn't handle the

11:11

water. And, um, I

11:14

was like, Oh, this is going to suck for

11:17

a long time. And I miss my girlfriend

11:19

at the time, Sarita. And, um, are those

11:21

parts, are they appealing? And,

11:24

uh, to you, I mean, war films. Yeah.

11:28

I, not really, I don't find

11:30

it's just a lot of with a bunch of

11:32

dudes really and getting my Montezuma's

11:34

revenge. I mean, I like hanging out with

11:37

a bunch of dudes, but I don't love

11:39

traveling. I'm not a big, are you

11:41

a big traveler? Yeah, I like to travel. I like

11:43

the, the gypsy lifestyle. I like living out. I like

11:45

it less now than I did when I was in

11:47

my twenties. That was the, but if

11:49

you go to Australia, it's gotta be a good part, right?

11:51

If somebody says South Africa, you're like, yay, it doesn't even

11:53

matter what the part is. See, if it were a war

11:56

film, then you think like, I just imagine you wait around

11:58

for like three weeks and then you do. A

12:00

day where you're like, get down! And, you

12:02

know. Yeah. Phil and Steve

12:04

Zahn and I used to joke about

12:06

the thin red line. Phil Hoffman. Yeah.

12:09

Phil Hoffman and Steve Zahn. And we were all up for that.

12:12

And I remember Phil said, he said,

12:15

yeah, I don't know about that one. Like, if you

12:17

show up for that one, you want to go all

12:19

the way. Like you want to have a big point.

12:21

You want to really, you want to be in every

12:23

frame. When I met Justin,

12:25

he did the most amazing Phil

12:28

Hoffman impersonation. And Mark

12:30

Wahlberg in Boogie Nights. And I made him do

12:32

it in front of Phil at a Mexican restaurant

12:34

called El Compadre after we saw, what was that

12:36

shark movie? We saw Deep Blue Sea. We saw

12:38

Deep Blue Sea with, so this is an example

12:40

of how you, I didn't know anyone really in

12:42

LA and you invited me out. I mean, it

12:44

seems like a simple thing now, but like you

12:47

were just like, hey man. Well, you were adorable.

12:49

You want to go, you want to go see,

12:51

I was eager. You know, I

12:53

was like, I'll be a good friend. You were

12:55

so starstruck by Phil because you had just seen

12:57

Boogie Nights. Yeah, I was. I was obsessed with

12:59

Phil and Phil was a god. He

13:02

was. He really was and he still

13:04

is. And you didn't give me any, he still is.

13:07

You know, he's our guy. Yeah. But

13:10

I remember when he showed up that day and you didn't really

13:12

give him any warning. He was wearing like a, I

13:14

think he was wearing like an Almond Brothers band shirt.

13:16

I remember it really clearly. Oh, at this movie at

13:18

the cinema Ramadon. Yeah. I think you

13:20

said, as you often do, because you're not a

13:23

name, you'll drop, you don't drop names like this

13:25

is a famous, or you were just like, hey, my.

13:28

Well, you do only when you're on podcasts. But

13:31

you were like, my friend Phil is

13:33

coming, you know, Phil and I said,

13:35

and I had to kind of get it out

13:37

of you that and I freaked out. And when

13:40

he showed up, that's Phil Hoffman. Holy shit. It

13:42

was like, here was a guy who, yeah, I

13:44

looked up to and all that. And we went to see this

13:46

movie. It's kind of a dumb movie, that shark movie. And

13:50

Tim Allen was laughing, you know, and then Phil

13:52

would laugh every time Tim laughed. And it was.

13:55

So I found myself just watching Phil and Tim. And they

13:57

were making each other laugh because they were laughing at how

13:59

bad it was. That's right. And then, yeah, you're

14:01

right. We went out to Al Capadre afterwards

14:03

and Sam did the thing that you

14:06

do with me often, which is, you've

14:08

set me up for impressions, which

14:10

I love doing, and you

14:12

had me do it for Phil. And when I first, and I

14:14

was too, I was too chicken shit to

14:16

do it when you first did it. When

14:18

you said, hey, Phil, you guys,

14:20

he does a great impression of you. It's

14:23

awesome. Oh my God. And

14:25

so, yeah, so, okay. So

14:28

the Phil impression was, yeah, I do

14:30

remember what it was. It was some- He did, it was

14:32

Mark Wahlberg and him and Boogie Nights. It was that scene.

14:34

Yeah. Where he gets the car,

14:36

where Phil gets the car, and he wants to

14:39

impress Dirk Diggler. And he ends up crying in

14:41

the car. So, you know, and when I did-

14:43

I'm a fucking idiot. I'm a fucking idiot. Fucking

14:45

idiot, fucking idiot. But when I- So

14:48

good. But I remember when I did it,

14:50

so I was afraid to do it at

14:52

first, and then we were drinking so much

14:54

tequila. I know. To the point

14:56

where I just, I launched into it unsolicited.

14:58

I remember you were like, it came out of nowhere, and I was just

15:00

like, all right, I'll do it. Yeah, I'll do

15:03

it. And I just started the impression.

15:06

You must have been a car, Dirk. I

15:08

wouldn't make sure you liked it, right? He was like

15:10

stone-faced, wasn't he? He was, everybody at the table was

15:12

laughing, and Phil was kind of stone-faced. And years

15:15

later, he claimed he wasn't. He

15:17

said, oh, I thought it was funny, you know.

15:19

But at the time, I remember him saying, that's

15:21

just me from Boogie Nights. That's not how I

15:23

talk. And

15:25

then to redeem myself, I remember

15:28

doing, because Phil is very close to, he's

15:30

very close to Ted Levine. Ted

15:33

Levine, it's like, same register. Was she

15:35

a great big fan person? You

15:37

put the lotion in the basket. But is that Ted Levine

15:39

in Silence of the Lambs, or is that Ted Levine all

15:41

the time? I think that's Ted Levine in Silence of the

15:44

Lambs. Have you heard Ted Levine in other things? I have,

15:46

I've worked with him. Yeah. I'm trying

15:48

to think. It's a little bit like that, right? I

15:50

mean, a little bit, I'd have to go back. I saw

15:53

him do a movie called Georgia with Jennifer Jason Lee, and

15:55

he, I saw it right after Silence of

15:57

the Lambs, and he plays like a very kind of like, benign

16:00

stay at home dad, right? That's his part. And

16:04

it's so creepy because he's got lines like- Scares the shit out

16:06

of you. Yeah, because he's like, yeah,

16:08

listen, I put Ginny to Ben

16:10

early because she didn't eat her

16:12

dessert. And Tommy was able to,

16:14

I read him a bedtime story and I tucked

16:16

him in and it's like, oh, get away from

16:19

us. Did you send me the Silence of the

16:21

Lambs Lego put in the

16:23

basket song? Did you send it out? Ah, maybe. I

16:25

played it for him. Oh, really? And he'd never heard it.

16:28

He loved it. Oh, he did. So he's

16:30

okay with that, Buffalo Bill. He's totally cool.

16:32

He knows, you know, it's

16:34

sort of, I'm sure it haunts him a little bit.

16:37

Actually, he was in Jesse James too in single

16:39

shot. That's right. And he's a great guy. And

16:41

we had to flip this calf in single shot

16:44

and he was able to do it. I think I was only

16:46

able to do it like maybe once and

16:48

he was, he lives on a farm. Oh, wow. So

16:51

he's that guy. Yeah. He, I had

16:53

heard that he couldn't get work for a while after

16:55

Silence of the Lambs. Is that true? Yeah. That's

16:57

what I had heard. But you- That's

17:00

right. He was in Jesse James. Yeah. He

17:02

got typecast probably. Yeah. Do you remember, there's,

17:04

I remember dropping you off for the audition

17:08

for Jesse James. My brother and I dropped you

17:10

off. Yes. And I'll never forget. What

17:12

was that doing? This is one of the, you know, one of

17:14

the great actors and

17:16

he's, you were running across

17:18

Sunset. Cause Sam doesn't, it's safe

17:20

to say you don't drive. That's fair to say,

17:23

right? It's a fact. Oh, yes, yes. I, no,

17:25

I drive, I drive my, I, you

17:28

drive your girlfriend crazy. But

17:31

I drive, I drive in films and stuff. I

17:33

don't drive cause I live in New York city.

17:35

You only drive in films. But yes, yes. So

17:37

you're able to drive. I know

17:39

how to drive. I don't know how to drive a

17:42

stick shift. I don't think I've ever- I

17:44

had a license for a long time.

17:47

But like we're good friends. I've

17:49

known you for 20 years. I've never- Probably cut that part

17:51

out cause then they won't let me drive. Oh, okay. All

17:54

right, we'll cut it out. In films. We still need

17:56

to make a living driving in films. But I've never

17:58

driven in a car with you. This is strange. each

18:00

other over 20 years. I'm

18:02

never... Yeah, I only drive what

18:04

I'm paid for. Okay, but so

18:06

we were picking you up. And

18:08

before Uber, you relied on taxis

18:11

and friends. Yeah. So we

18:13

were Ubering you and happy to

18:15

do it, but I remember you scammering

18:17

across the street and you had like, you

18:21

had like cowboy, like kids cowboy get

18:23

up. Like kid wear, like toy cowboy

18:25

gear. Did I have like squirt guns?

18:28

Yeah. You had like a red, I

18:30

think like red, little pea shooters. No,

18:32

I didn't get that part. Oh,

18:35

you didn't get that part. I got another part. That's

18:37

right. Then they wanted you for another part. But that's

18:39

a good example of the part you're playing then is

18:41

not, maybe not on paper, the showy part, the flashiest

18:43

part, but I think that's what people

18:45

connect to with a lot of your work. You're able

18:47

to make these people, these kind of, you

18:50

know, maybe less desirable on the

18:52

surface parts really human. And that's

18:56

something I want to make out. Yeah. This

18:58

is, we can, by the way, we're not being filmed. You

19:01

work harder than anybody I know

19:03

that I've seen. What is it like? So

19:06

when you did that, when you do any part,

19:09

I mean, what do you, how do you approach

19:11

it? What is your, I've

19:14

seen a lot of scribbles. Well, you

19:16

know, I think that you've, you've trained as an

19:18

actor and I've trained as an actor. I did

19:20

Meisner training and, and you know, it's like, and

19:22

we've done theater and that's the training in itself.

19:25

And, you know, I think that

19:28

the training really informed,

19:30

because I was just kind of fucking around until I

19:32

was in William Esper. And then I, And that was

19:34

when you were in your twenties early. In my twenties,

19:36

91. And then I started, I was

19:39

doing some theater and, and then

19:41

I stood at the Meisner training for two

19:43

years and that, and I met Terry there

19:45

and Maggie Flanagan, these two teachers there. And

19:47

Bill was an amazing teacher. And that was

19:50

like the, the buds training for me. And

19:52

then so to speak. And then, it went

19:55

on, you know, and then from there, I think I

19:58

stayed working with You

20:00

still work with the same coach. I mean, this is. Yeah,

20:02

I work at Terry Knickerbocker. He's a Meisner coach and he

20:05

was one of William Esper's proteges, now he has his

20:07

own school. And Maggie Flanagan was the same. I trained

20:09

with her a little bit. So

20:11

the work itself is just. Yeah,

20:14

I need structure. So I lay out times

20:16

where I can read it out loud. I

20:18

tape my lines, I go to see Terry,

20:20

I FaceTime with Liz. Right now I'm

20:23

doing this TV thing where I

20:25

gotta play a real person and I'm. So you're

20:27

doing Bob Fosse. I play Bob Fosse and that's

20:29

very, there's a lot involved with hair and makeup.

20:32

Does that get in the way? Is that the challenge? It's

20:35

a challenge for me as I'm a very

20:37

fidgety person. And so in the hair and

20:40

makeup chair, it's tricky. The

20:42

most daunting was George Bush

20:44

because he's so famous.

20:46

So everybody has an opinion on

20:48

what he sounds like. Like Elvis

20:50

Presley or Marilyn Monroe. Nobody knows

20:52

what Abe Lincoln sounds like. Nobody

20:56

knows. So how did you go

20:58

about that then? Was it a matter of and

21:00

not make it an impression? I

21:02

think that the thing that you see when you see

21:05

people who play

21:07

real people very well, you know, I

21:10

think the main thing you're seeing that

21:12

has to penetrate through the impression is

21:15

the truth, the intention of

21:17

the scene and the heart and soul of

21:19

the actor has to punch through

21:21

the impression, if that makes sense. I

21:24

feel like if you just see the impression, you're lost.

21:27

Did that inform how you approached Bush? Did you

21:29

approach him as an anti-hero or? Well,

21:31

I just think that the movies that I grew up on, the

21:34

heroes were incredibly flawed, you know, and the

21:36

Deer Hunter and Sophie's

21:39

Choice, you know, Raging Bull,

21:41

these are all very flawed people, you know,

21:43

and so, but they're heroic and they're also

21:46

very flawed. And so I think

21:48

that that's interesting, you know. With Bush, did you

21:50

talk to him? Were you able to, was it

21:52

just a matter of watching a lot of footage?

21:56

Did you have an opinion about him that

21:58

you used? I just... I

22:00

found him very

22:03

charming. I was surprised how charming

22:05

I found him. And I really

22:08

thought he was just a guy who was in over his

22:10

head with these master politicians.

22:12

Yeah, yeah. That's what struck me.

22:15

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cashback really adds up. Hello,

24:23

hello again. Shaboom and nobody

24:25

will meet again. There were a lot

24:27

of questions about Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy on Twitter. I

24:29

love that movie. It's a weird movie. Approaching

24:33

a part like that, how different is it

24:35

from doing... Because

24:37

that's like a wacky comedy, whatever.

24:40

Yeah, that was really eclectic. I

24:42

remember watching George Bush,

24:45

Bill Clinton, Matthew McConaughey, Vince

24:47

Vaughn, a little bit

24:50

of Woody Harrelson. And then I remember

24:52

watching Freddie Mercury and I feel like

24:56

there's a little Brad Pitt in there. But

24:59

the one thing, I watched

25:01

Jim Carrey in the mask. Oh, right. A

25:03

lot. And I watched some Will Ferros. I mean,

25:05

I watched everything. Those seem to be

25:07

all people who are untamed. They don't

25:09

have any structure. And

25:13

then that other head was a

25:15

little bit more pragmatic. And Eddie

25:17

Murphy in The Nutty Professor, his

25:19

alter ego, I think

25:21

is really... I've stolen a lot from that. A

25:25

couple of times when I did Better Living Through Chemistry, I

25:28

watched The Nutty Professor. I watched the Jerry Lewis

25:30

one and Eddie Murphy. So

25:32

I steal a lot of shit. From

25:35

the greats. Bill

25:38

Murray, Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, DeNaro,

25:40

John Voight. I

25:43

always say to young students, I say,

25:47

watch the men should watch

25:49

the women and the women should watch the

25:51

men. I always think that if you're a

25:53

young actress, you should watch Raging Bull. If

25:55

you're a young actor, you should watch Sophie's

25:57

Choice. Interesting. Bob Hoskins wants to say

25:59

something. about if you want to play

26:01

a tough guy, and my teacher said this too,

26:05

Bob Hoskin said he would watch, you know, he

26:08

was more interested in women

26:11

when he was watching. There's

26:14

a, I don't know, there's something about tapping

26:17

into that vulnerability. If

26:20

you're a tough guy, underneath

26:23

that I think is all these kinds of, that's

26:25

what Gene Hackman was great at too, you know?

26:28

And I think that's something that my teacher said

26:30

once, and I never forgot that. And

26:33

you know, Gene Hackman always also said, I

26:36

try to find the simplest way to tell

26:38

the story, and what, I start with, how

26:41

am I similar to this

26:43

guy? Start with that. And

26:46

then whatever I'm not,

26:48

whatever's not similar, then

26:50

you gotta make that part up. You gotta fill

26:52

that in, you know? So how were you similar

26:54

to Bush? Well,

26:57

I'm not a southerner, and

26:59

I play all these Texans, and I had done

27:01

a Texas accent. And so that I wasn't worried

27:03

about. You were mentioning a lot of these movies

27:05

that you grew up with, and I know Christopher

27:08

Walken has been like a big part of, he's

27:10

been a big influence for you. In

27:13

fact, when I met you, I

27:15

knew that, I knew that early on that he was a big

27:18

part of your, big part

27:20

of the reason why you're an actor, and he

27:22

meant a lot to you. Will

27:24

you favor us with the story of, because I get

27:26

it wrong when I tell it. Sam

27:30

stayed next door to Chris

27:32

Walken at the Chateau, and in an

27:34

attempt to meet him, is this possible

27:36

to tell? Yes, yes, yes. So we were

27:38

in the elevator, and, well,

27:42

wouldn't they call you, because wouldn't

27:44

Walken call down to the kitchen? He

27:46

called down to get milk for his cats or

27:48

something. I had heard he was getting milk for,

27:51

I had heard he travels with like 20 cats.

27:54

I've since become friends with him, and

27:56

I don't think this stuff is true, but we

27:58

were down, was Ivan, my friend

28:01

Ivan and Catherine, his girlfriend, and we

28:03

were, there's a balcony that shares

28:05

with another room, another balcony. And I would

28:07

go to look, Sam was in like a

28:09

corner room and on the, on the other

28:11

corner room that, um,

28:13

next door, it had a wraparound

28:15

balcony, right? Yes. Yes. And so

28:18

I would sometimes peek onto

28:20

the part of the balcony, which was not my

28:22

balcony to see, to get a view of Sunset

28:24

Boulevard and, and

28:26

kind of check out what's going on downstairs. And,

28:29

and sometimes I would just look to see if there

28:31

was anybody in there so I could go over to

28:33

their balcony. And then I, when

28:36

I saw the silhouette that

28:38

looked like, you know, Count Dracula

28:40

or something in the neighbor's room, in

28:43

the neighbor's room. And I, I

28:46

feel like I might've known I, I quickly walked

28:48

away and went back to my part of the

28:50

balcony. The next day there was

28:52

a cat box dividing the two balconies as

28:55

to, as to be two balconies instead of

28:57

one. So it was clear that someone put those

28:59

litter boxes to separate. Yeah. Okay. Saw him and

29:01

we ended up getting an elevator with him. We

29:03

rode the elevator and we tried to sort of

29:06

be kind of cool about it. And then we, we were

29:09

like, it's a very small elevator. And then I

29:12

said something like, uh, he said to me, I

29:14

dunno, he wouldn't probably

29:16

remember this, but you didn't bring it up with him. I

29:19

haven't talked to him about this story, but

29:21

he said cause we did a play together in

29:23

a film together and we're now friends. And, and this

29:25

is way before, this is way before that. And

29:28

he said, um, there

29:31

was a long silence and Ivan and Catherine and I were

29:33

just trying to be cool and be like, don't, don't, don't, don't

29:35

say anything. Don't say anything. Don't, don't blow it. Don't blow it.

29:37

You know, we're in the elevator with Chris Walkman and

29:39

the other. And that's what we're thinking. And

29:42

there's a long sense. And he goes, I

29:45

put the cat box outside. So

29:47

the cats don't get out. And

29:50

I almost felt like he was trying not to hurt my

29:53

feelings or something. He was saying

29:55

that's for the cats. That's not, so you won't

29:57

come in on my balcony. Oh, I see. I

29:59

see. I wasn't a sign off.

30:01

Yeah, but no so I was

30:04

like so I went oh Yeah, you have a lot

30:06

of cats don't you have let you travel with a

30:08

lot of cats like it like 20 k's no,

30:12

and then I was like there's

30:15

another long silence and then we we were I

30:18

think was very awkward, but then we

30:21

got out of the elevator and we walked and and

30:24

Catherine and Ivan and I walked behind

30:26

him, but we were going the same

30:28

way Uh-huh. Yeah, we'd already said bye

30:30

because he said the elevator goes. Okay,

30:32

what bye? Okay, bye And then

30:35

he kept what he kept walking and of course, we're going in

30:37

the same direction That's an awkward thing. You

30:39

don't want to like say bye again. You've already said you want

30:41

to say bye again So I tried to make funny and I

30:43

said uh So if the cats get

30:45

out should I get like a net or something

30:47

and he went no and they

30:49

walked in That's pretty much the story That

30:51

was the first time I had interactions with the

30:53

great Chris Walken Yes, and that now that you've

30:55

worked with him so much and you become close

30:58

that like now he You

31:00

know, he just called you guys hang out

31:02

which I'm still can't believe Were

31:05

you able to tell him what what he meant to

31:07

you growing up and what a big influence? He was

31:09

I think in that, you know, we had these ten

31:11

minutes Backstage where I was going

31:13

on and he was leaving and we would sort

31:16

of read the newspaper and hang out together And

31:18

we would talk about stuff and he would tell some great

31:20

stories and One

31:23

day we're having a coffee break and

31:26

Martin McDonough's there and Zoe Kazan

31:28

Anthony Mackey were hanging out and our director

31:30

John Crowley and we're just having some tea

31:33

or something and and

31:35

he goes I Would

31:38

have made it made a great pub I Would

31:42

have been very lenient and So

31:45

Martin McDonough heard that it's just out

31:47

of nowhere out of nowhere and

31:50

he put that in the

31:52

movie seven psychopaths Oh Chris

31:54

Walken says that that's awesome. We're high

31:56

on mushrooms in the movie when

31:58

he says that Wow So Martin took

32:00

that. So like that's. Martin must have been like,

32:02

well, where else? How else does this make sense?

32:05

They'd have to be on mushrooms. The

32:08

thing is, he's brilliant in that in that film,

32:10

Nick of Time. And he's you know, the thing

32:13

people forget about it, they think of, you know,

32:15

the you know, the more cowbell and the so

32:17

all that sort of fiction. But they forget that

32:19

he was a leading man. He back in the

32:21

day, you know, the Dead Zone and the

32:24

Deer Hunter. I mean, he was a big, tall,

32:26

good looking guy. He done a lot of Shakespeare.

32:28

He was a musical theater guy. Like he was

32:30

a leading man. And it wasn't this, you know,

32:32

scary character. Yeah. Well, who is who's still on?

32:35

So you got walk in and now you're Gary

32:37

Oldman is your pal. Who's on your list? That

32:39

was fun to hang out with. Who's on your

32:41

act? Gary Oldman. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We spent a

32:43

lot of time together last year. That was really

32:45

cool. And while you were going

32:48

through the awards stuff. Yeah, that's the cool

32:50

thing about that award stuff is that they'll

32:52

show these reels at these things like they'll

32:54

be the Palm Springs Film Festival and they'll

32:56

show William Defoe's William Defoe's sort

32:58

of. Like clips from his career

33:00

or Gary Oldman's career. I remember

33:02

I remember there was

33:04

this Hollywood award thing and we

33:07

were all talking and chatting and drinking

33:09

beer and then backstage. And then the

33:12

Gary Oldman's clips came on. And

33:15

everybody just shut up. Wow. And we

33:17

just watched his body

33:19

of work. Wow. And it's

33:21

just like a slow clap at the end.

33:24

Yeah. It

33:26

was like it was just astounding.

33:29

His body of work is just

33:31

astounding. Well, I remember this is

33:33

not Drew Barrymore told me the

33:35

story about casting you and Charlie's

33:37

Angels. She's a great lady. She's

33:39

a great lady. And she but

33:41

Justine Badley, who was the casting director, I remember

33:44

had. Right. She drew told me that she said,

33:46

who are those three guys? Because she saw three

33:48

different photos. And Justine said, this is who we're

33:50

considering for this part. She said, well, which one?

33:53

Like, who was three? And she said, well,

33:55

Justine said they're the same guy. And

33:57

there are three different pictures of you. Do you know this story?

34:00

It was like you from maybe

34:02

Green Mile, three different.

34:04

It's amazing. Yeah. So

34:06

when you talk about, I think a

34:09

lot of younger generations think, which

34:12

must be weird for you, think of you in

34:14

those terms, the way you think about Gary Oldman

34:16

and when they see something like

34:18

that and feel the same way that you

34:20

feel about Gary Oldman. So I think you, to

34:26

see you still get excited about that is

34:28

cool. It means you're still, you haven't lost

34:30

the- You and I are film nerds. We're

34:32

theater nerds. Yeah. And you've

34:34

had a lot of experience now playing more

34:37

straight man, leading man. I've done, yeah, I've

34:39

done a little bit of both as you

34:41

have too. And it's fun to do that

34:43

kind of dynamic. Do you prefer playing like

34:46

just a weirdo eccentric? I mean, I think

34:48

it's fun to do both

34:50

and like it depends what the

34:52

chemistry is, right? I mean, you

34:54

know. Yeah. How about, how was

34:56

Bob Fosse? I mean, how was that to- It's

34:59

very challenging, this Fosse

35:01

thing. I'm working with Michelle Williams,

35:03

who's amazing, having

35:05

a great time with her and Tommy

35:08

Kale who did Hamilton is great. We're having

35:10

a great time. The writers

35:12

are great. Everybody's great. I think

35:15

the only thing is there's a lot of time in the chair and

35:17

you got to sort of figure that out and- The

35:20

chair, you mean the toilet on the toilet? On the

35:22

toilet, yes. What-

35:25

It's long hours, but it's good.

35:28

It's good. It's really good. We have

35:30

these amazing choreographers who are doing a little dancing. It's

35:33

really, it's cool. And you shaved your head. These dancers

35:35

are like superheroes. I shave my head. These

35:38

dancers- But you love to dance, so were you out of

35:40

your, do you feel like out of your depth still? Absolutely.

35:43

It's, this is a whole new realm. This

35:45

is like, you thought you could dance and then, man,

35:48

this is like something else. And

35:50

to learn the Fosse vocabulary, which in

35:53

short is like what Michael

35:55

Jackson did. Yeah, in fact, there's

35:58

a great video for anyone listening. where

36:00

they show Michael Jackson dancing to what? I

36:02

forget what it is, Thriller or something in

36:04

Thriller. And then they, and it's

36:06

side by side with Fosse from like the

36:08

early 70s. You showed me this. And I

36:10

was blown away by how similar the moves

36:13

are. That he ripped off, you say earlier,

36:15

you said Steve from the best. And Michael

36:17

Jackson loved Fosse. He wanted Fosse to direct

36:19

Thriller. And, but Michael

36:21

Jackson, Bob Fosse said that Michael Jackson

36:23

was one of the greatest dancers he'd

36:25

seen since Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly.

36:28

I mean, Michael Jackson was an amazing

36:30

dancer. I was blown away by how similar.

36:32

But he, yeah, he worshiped Fosse, Michael

36:34

Jackson. He really, yeah. Was

36:36

there ever a thing you wanted to do outside

36:39

of acting? Were you ever, do you ever think like, it

36:42

was from your earliest memory was acting?

36:45

Yeah, I mean, I just kind of got into

36:48

it accidentally through

36:50

my parents and then I didn't really take it seriously. And then

36:53

when I was an adult, I got into it. And

36:55

then I just started ripping people off like

36:57

DeNero and all these people. And,

37:00

but when you were a kid, when you

37:02

like. Bob Fosse ripped off the Nicholas brothers,

37:04

this amazing dance team and Fred Astaire and

37:06

everybody rips off everybody, you know? Yeah.

37:10

What's your favorite movie of all time? I

37:12

mean, it depends. Comedic, I

37:14

would say either Stripes or Animal House

37:16

or, and then traumatic, probably

37:19

Cuckoo's Nestor, Deer Hunter off the

37:22

top of my head. You, Bill Murray. Chinatown. I mean,

37:24

there's so many, it's hard to. Bill Murray

37:26

was a big influence. Specifically

37:28

when you did The Way, Way Back. Yes,

37:30

we basically, I basically, I

37:33

copied him in Meatballs and Walter Matthew, Bad

37:35

News Bears and a little bit of Richard

37:37

Pryor and Bustin Loose, this movie Bustin Loose

37:39

with him and Cicely Tyson. There

37:42

were a few others. I mean, I'm a thief. Yeah,

37:44

but in the sense that they were so, you were

37:46

so kind of off the cuff, you had this kind

37:48

of glib. Well, Bill Murray

37:50

and Meatball specifically is almost, the relationship

37:53

is almost identical between him and the

37:55

boy. I mean, that's a pretty obvious thing.

37:57

That's right. He takes him under his wing. and

38:00

he senses that he's been alienated, but yeah. Where

38:04

would you, other than LA and New York, if

38:06

you could live somewhere, where would you wanna live? San

38:08

Francisco, you and I have spent some good times there.

38:11

San Francisco's a great town. Yeah, you love San Francisco.

38:13

I don't know, what about you? What about you, where

38:15

is your? I would say New Orleans, Austin, I love.

38:17

Austin, you had a house there. Austin's

38:19

great. You grew up in San

38:21

Francisco. I remember you would show me

38:23

where, this is where I

38:25

had my first date, this is where I

38:28

had, that's where you were also part of

38:30

a group of kids that were like, was

38:32

it like fame? Were they like? Yeah, it

38:34

was kind of a low-budget fame, but it

38:36

was also inner-city kids from

38:38

everywhere, so there were the kids from

38:40

the Mission. Was it intimidating? Very

38:43

intimidating. I got beat up a lot as a kid. I mean,

38:45

there were a lot, but there the rich kids would come in

38:47

and commute to the School of the Arts, but

38:49

it was still a public school, so it

38:51

was a very eclectic group.

38:54

Very eclectic, very interracial, financially

38:59

the kids were all in different places. It

39:02

wasn't just rich, it was a lot

39:04

of poor kids, a lot of middle

39:07

class, it was very eclectic. And

39:10

it was cool to be an artist.

39:13

Yeah, but the artist part was only, I'd

39:16

say 20% of the school, so

39:19

the rest was a public school, or

39:21

maybe more than that, but Margaret

39:23

Cho came there. That's right. Aisha

39:27

Tyler. Aisha, yeah. So were your

39:29

friends then mostly actors? Yeah, I

39:31

mean, Aisha and I dated for a

39:33

while, and we were in improv,

39:35

Chupa's Margaret, and yeah. So

39:39

San Fran, you would live there. Music,

39:42

what do you listen to to relax? Do you get into

39:44

music on set? Enya, that's

39:47

what I figured. What do

39:49

you listen to? I listened to, I remember listening to

39:51

M Ward during Snow Angels, I was listening to M

39:54

Ward. Do you do that,

39:56

depending on the character? You like to switch, yeah. I don't know.

39:58

What's Fosse now? Fosse's kinda like. Uh, hey big

40:00

spender. Yeah.

40:05

On a loop. On a loop. If

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41:29

If you had to be one age for

41:31

the rest of your life, what would you pick? Physically. I

41:34

think 40 was physically the peak.

41:37

Oh really? That's so good to know. I think

41:39

40 was really... Really? That's great. And then after

41:41

that it was starting to fall apart. And

41:44

now, I mean, I'm pretty good shape now,

41:46

but it's still, it's never going to be the same after

41:48

40. 40 is like a great... and

41:52

mentally, 40 is a great age to be. Oh, that's

41:54

so good. I really like being 40. Oh,

41:56

I'm glad to hear that. Vanilla

41:58

chocolate. chocolate dogs

42:01

cats dogs sweet

42:03

savory Oh savory mosquitoes

42:05

bees bees

42:08

who likes mosquitoes yeah mosquito

42:11

what are mosquitoes good for get

42:13

a my relation control it killed I mean maybe that

42:15

that's about it wine beer oh I

42:18

like them both that's really I like but I'm

42:20

kind of a snob oh it's this was a

42:22

question for the people I thought I for sure

42:24

thought you were gonna say beer I'd say beer

42:26

but I'm I love a good Sam is a

42:28

Rolo too man I love yeah you are a

42:30

you are the the biggest beer snob I think

42:33

I've ever known I am snob is an inherently

42:35

negative word isn't it yeah I mean you're in

42:37

a elitist

42:39

beer is beer yes yeah you love

42:42

trying the different one yeah I'm surprised

42:44

okay well so subway cab oh I

42:47

like the subway yeah if there's if

42:49

there's no if there's no if there's

42:51

no if there's no traffic I like

42:54

a cab love breezing through the

42:56

Brooklyn Bridge honey how is it now do people have

42:58

you been getting right is it coming up

43:00

to you more I mean it's the same kind

43:02

of stuff I think you

43:04

know it's always like really it's mostly really

43:07

nice I think except if

43:09

you're in a hurry right isn't that sort of the

43:11

the one time you're like if you're in a hurry

43:13

I know but not the best thing but if it's

43:15

great if you're if you're not if you're not in

43:17

a hurry it's great I mean you can pretty much

43:20

it's mostly good I would say mostly good yeah

43:22

yeah I remember the one time I was in

43:24

a hurry this is right when things started I

43:27

started back thing and things that people

43:29

were seeing and I was late for

43:31

a train in Grand Central yeah and this

43:33

guy came up to me and I'd been getting a lot

43:35

of like did we go to school together like it's killing

43:37

me where do I know you from I still get yeah

43:40

and so I would say oh where'd you go to school

43:42

Oregon I went to school Connecticut but what do you do

43:45

for a living I'm an act and eventually get to the

43:47

point we're like oh I saw you in a thing whatever

43:49

yeah so I'm running for a train and this guy comes

43:51

up to me he goes did we

43:53

go to school together and I was like and I

43:55

was late in my defense so I was like and

43:58

I said no I'm an actor you probably

44:00

know me, you probably saw me in something and he goes, oh

44:02

really, what were you in? And I started

44:04

listing, you know, my, at the time

44:06

really limited resume. I was like this, that,

44:08

no, no, what about this, no. And he

44:10

goes, did you grow up

44:13

in Fairfield, Connecticut? I said, yeah

44:15

I did. Riverfield Elementary School.

44:17

Yeah, I did go there. I, not

44:20

only did I know him, but we had

44:22

been friends in first grade and he moved out of

44:24

town. It was so embarrassing and I said, oh you

44:26

know, and here I am like, I don't know, I'm

44:28

an actor, you probably know me from my work. And

44:32

we were friends in first grade and the worst

44:34

part was he goes, oh so you're acting now?

44:36

That's cool. You know, I

44:38

do occasionally get people, there was

44:40

a really sweet, sometimes people- Who the hell

44:42

do you think you are? I

44:46

got one recently which was a really sweet girl and she

44:48

was like, that was really nice, like oh my god you're

44:50

the guy who was in the thing. I said, yeah. And

44:52

she said, what do you do now? And I

44:55

said, oh well, you know, still

44:58

acting. She goes, huh. That's

45:00

kind of fun in a way though, and sometimes it's

45:02

kind of fun because it's like- Yeah, you could be

45:04

anybody now. Yeah. Beatles

45:06

stones. Oh fuck,

45:09

what is these? That's not a fair question.

45:11

These are quick, these are just don't think

45:14

about- Stones right today, but maybe Beatles tomorrow?

45:16

God, that's a tough one. Okay, that's right,

45:18

spring fall. Fall,

45:21

god, you guys are laying some tough ones.

45:23

Sunrise is sunsets. Sunrise.

45:26

You're epitaph. What do you want it to read? Or

45:28

do you want to- Would you call me? A

45:32

racial epitaph. What is

45:34

an epitaph? Now

45:37

for your tombstone. Yes.

45:45

No rock unturned, I guess would be

45:47

something. Maybe that's it. That's good. And

45:50

is there a real person that you want to play? You've

45:52

now played Bush Fosse. I dare

45:55

I say this. Chuck Barris. The only

45:57

person I kind of, but I'm too

45:59

old. is Elvis Presley.

46:01

I'd love to play Elvis Presley, but wouldn't

46:03

you love to play Elvis Presley? You could

46:06

play Elvis. What? Vince Vaughn could play. You

46:08

could play a version of Elvis. A version

46:10

of him? I guess kind of like that

46:12

spider verse thing. Colin Farrell. A version of

46:14

him. Colin

46:16

Farrell played Elvis. I mean, you should play Elvis. Yeah. And

46:18

I think Vince Vaughn should play Elvis. Those make sense. Okay,

46:21

maybe you and I should play Elvis. You could play

46:24

Elvis. I don't know if I should play Elvis, but...

46:26

Somebody said on Twitter, Cinephile Femme said,

46:30

this is a good question, and I'm curious

46:32

about this myself. What went through your mind

46:34

when you accidentally dropped an F-bomb in that

46:36

hilarious SNL scale? Oh, that was panic. Yeah,

46:38

I played through. I mean, I was... You

46:40

would never know. I played through, but it

46:42

was it was definitely like I thought I

46:44

was like gonna be in trouble. And were

46:46

you at all? Did they say anything? No,

46:48

they were like don't do that again. Basically,

46:51

but playfully. Yeah, it was like, you

46:53

know. Right. A girl

46:55

named Kylo wants you to say hi to her. Hey,

46:58

how's it going? Okay, that's good. And

47:00

then this was interesting. It's

47:03

people who ask you about Galaxy Quest. I love you so much,

47:05

man. I love you. People ask about Galaxy

47:07

Quest sequel. People say is it gonna happen

47:09

without Alan? Yes, well, they're... That's right. We

47:11

were almost gonna do it, right? We were.

47:13

Yeah. Yeah, I think they're still thinking

47:15

about it, you know. That's

47:18

a tough... I don't know. ...shoes to fill.

47:20

What a great guy. I know Alan was

47:22

back to... Yeah, and

47:25

Alan... He was such a great... He was such

47:27

a beautiful guy. Yeah, another one on Galaxy Quest

47:29

who I didn't know anyone and he was... He

47:32

was also very kind to me when we did that

47:34

and I did a play that he was leaving. So

47:36

I took over for care and he wrote me a...

47:38

He didn't have to. He wrote me a letter. It

47:40

was a really nice letter and I hope I was

47:43

like excited. It was from Alan Rickman. I opened it

47:45

and the card just said it was a beautiful like

47:47

sunset background and in like very

47:49

small like ornate cursive it just said

47:52

fuck you. That's awesome.

47:54

Well, you know, he helped me with Charlie's

47:57

Angels a little bit. Oh, that's right.

47:59

You talked to me... about Tyhard. Yeah,

48:01

yeah. Well, you want to talk about

48:03

that? Well, I gave him the script and

48:05

he said just I said I want to do all these things

48:07

and this you know I don't know maybe I said like I

48:09

want to have a cape or something. He's

48:11

like keep it simple. Fains. He

48:14

says in Tyhard I killed

48:17

someone and then I ate a sandwich. That's right.

48:19

And I was like oh yeah he says keep

48:21

it simple and that's right. I remember that and

48:23

he took the time to read the script and

48:25

there were like 17 versions of that

48:27

script but he read the script and that

48:29

was very nice and he's right that

48:32

that was that is something that's... It's

48:34

nice to get help from your friends and he

48:36

was a very prestigious friend to have at that

48:38

time. Yeah. It's good to have

48:40

you do and I help each other. Yeah, you gave

48:43

me the best advice on when we were doing that

48:45

play Sam and I were doing a play and

48:47

we had both had movies we were about to go

48:49

do. Yeah. And yours was Heist, the David Mamet movie

48:52

which was and so I would read lines with you.

48:54

You were doing Jeepers Creepers. I was about to go

48:56

do Jeepers Creepers. Which is a really good film. It's

48:58

a really scary film. Well at the time you know

49:00

I felt really like intimidated

49:04

by the... well not intimidated. We were reading these

49:06

great David Mamet lines you know I was helping

49:08

you study and and then we would read mine

49:10

and I was kind of I remember being kind

49:13

of down on it because compared to the Mamet

49:15

script it was like you know

49:17

these well we're getting chased by this monster and

49:19

the dialogue wasn't quite

49:22

as scintillating. Yeah. So

49:24

and I was I remember being a little like

49:26

self-deprecating about it and you said to me and

49:29

you were you said you got to treat this like

49:31

it's Hamlet. Do you remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

49:34

I think I do remember. We were living in the

49:36

house in Williamstown. Yeah. Yeah. It was a really great

49:38

lesson and I'll never forget it because you know no

49:40

matter how what the script is like you know matter

49:42

how who you know you still

49:44

have to be that committed to it. But you're

49:47

great in that movie and that movie's rocking it's

49:49

scary as shit. Yeah. Thanks. It's really terrifying that

49:51

film but you're you're you go there you know

49:53

it's like... It was a good lesson to commit

49:55

you know that you commit to it like it's

49:58

something and I was I guess pretend... at the

50:00

time where I thought things had to be if

50:02

it wasn't the, whatever. It was

50:04

a really good lesson, I thank

50:06

you for that. And just in terms of working with

50:08

people, who now,

50:10

if you were to put together, like what

50:13

play would you do? What would you do,

50:15

you wanna do Shakespeare? You wanna do? I

50:18

don't know, I'd love to do like Streetcar

50:20

on film or something. Sometimes you don't get

50:22

those characters in film. You know, when you

50:24

do Neil Simon or Tension Williams or Martin

50:26

McDone, you know, those are great words. What

50:29

kind of part would you like to play? I

50:34

just wanna do that. No, that's, I'm doing the part. I

50:37

wanna do that in a movie. What would

50:39

you, what would you do? You

50:42

know, I'm getting to do a

50:44

part now that I never thought I'd get

50:46

to play a guy who's deeply

50:48

flawed and he's a real fuck up

50:52

and that's a lot of fun. This is

50:54

a good point. That's intense. This is somebody you

50:56

wanna know on Twitter as well. If they could

50:58

make a, if you could green light a sequel

51:00

to any movie that you've already done. Jesus.

51:03

Safe Men. Oh God, that'd

51:06

be great. So Safe Men for you guys

51:08

who haven't seen it. Yeah. It's

51:11

with Steve Zahn and great cast Mark

51:13

Ruffalo's in it. That would be the

51:15

one. Okay. Definitely, no question. Safer

51:18

Men. Safer Men, coming

51:21

to a theater near you. I would definitely

51:23

see it. And who's the great director who

51:25

did that? John Hammer. You have your tights

51:27

and I don't know, dot, dot, dot. This

51:30

is a- It's Safer Men. Somebody,

51:33

and then the third one is the safest man. This

51:36

is somebody who, this is a good question. This is

51:38

Agnes, this is a cool name. Agnes

51:40

de Savigny. I hope I'm saying that right.

51:42

I'm probably not. Hey Agnes. The

51:45

first time I saw Sam Rockwell, I'm gonna do my impression of,

51:47

I won't. Is it the first

51:49

time I saw Sam Rockwell was in a,

51:51

I don't know. That's exactly how I got this talk.

51:54

That's a pretty good Agnes impression. Absolutely, that's it. It was

51:56

in time to chill his box of moonlight. Not only did

51:58

Sam steal every scene, even playing opposite John Toretto. but

52:00

he played them all wearing a buckskin

52:03

suit. I wonder, this is Agnes, but

52:05

I also wonder, how much that outfit

52:07

informed his character and other costumes since?

52:09

That's a good question. Pros to buckskin.

52:12

Yeah. Great in the cold, not so

52:14

great in the heat. Uh-huh. Pros

52:17

and cons, wearing buckskin. So it wasn't like you

52:19

put that on and you're like, God, now I'm

52:21

like this feral, because you played this real like

52:23

feral, like country bumpkin kind of guy. That was

52:26

a great, Tom the Chiller did

52:28

a cool, we decided to put

52:30

like a little bird turd on

52:32

his outfit. I don't know if you can see it.

52:35

It's really, that was a funny idea. It's just funny

52:37

hearing that bird turd. There's a little like white bird

52:39

turd on his buckskin,

52:41

Davey Crockett outfit. But yeah, that

52:43

was just a really fun. Wait, what just as, just-

52:45

I watched Gary Busey for that. I remember watching Gary

52:47

Busey for that in something where I thought, Gary Busey

52:50

had this energy. I saw this movie he

52:52

did where he played this like hunter or

52:54

something. And there's this

52:56

kind of false bravado that that

52:58

character has, Bucky has this weird. Oh,

53:00

wow. And then Tom Chiller told me

53:03

to watch Joe Buck

53:05

in Midnight Calvary. Oh, sure, yeah. So when I initially

53:07

did, I did it with a Southern accent. He said

53:09

to cut the Southern accent, but do

53:11

that. Just this innocent, this kind of

53:13

like child-like. Yeah, it's kind of like,

53:15

you know, that thing that Joe Buck

53:17

had in Midnight Calvary. Sense of wonder

53:20

kind of like, yeah. Why,

53:22

yeah, why would you abandon? So

53:25

who's left? Who have you not? Who

53:27

are the greats that you've yet to... Well,

53:29

I'd love to work with Meryl Streep. That's

53:31

right. I'd love to get a chance to

53:33

work with Meryl Streep sometime and... Well, I'm

53:35

sure... A bunch of people. She's probably... Holly

53:37

Hunter's a great actress, you know. Yeah. I'm

53:40

sure she's... Yeah. Meryl's, you think Meryl's listening

53:42

to this one again? I would assume she is, yeah. Are

53:46

you excited for, you might be nominated for more things. Are

53:48

you looking forward to, was that... Are

53:51

you looking forward to going through that again? Or is it, I mean, I know

53:53

there are pros and cons. It's fun. Those

53:55

are fun parties. Yeah.

53:58

And then it's a lot of, you know. It's

54:00

scary. Yeah, you know, but isn't it

54:02

like now is it scary now cuz you've

54:04

done it You've already been through you won one by the way.

54:06

Where is that? What do you do with that thing? I have

54:08

it right here Oh, yeah Guys

54:12

you can't see this but Sam's got it around his neck He's

54:15

made a gold shame. No, I you know that

54:17

stuff is so Sort

54:20

of beautiful and crazy and scary. It's

54:22

such a crazy. That's such a weird

54:25

thing You know and I remember Phil

54:27

talked about that with us one time

54:29

remember he talked about yeah, you know

54:31

how much it The

54:33

downside to it that there's stuff that you don't really

54:36

consider when yes because everybody wants one everybody even if

54:38

they say It's not about awards. Yeah, and I was

54:40

having one of those moments where I had been nominated

54:43

for this thing or they was Talking and I

54:45

was embarrassed to reveal that to him because I

54:48

was right. He was above that, you know somebody

54:50

like that That's right. We talked up. That's right.

54:52

Remember that and he was very

54:54

cool about talking about that So he was very

54:56

candid and very honest and but but yeah, so

54:59

I wonder Yeah, how

55:01

it changes and if you're looking forward to that or is

55:03

it like well if it happens it happens and it's cool

55:06

but it's it's it's also You

55:09

know, like how do you make a you know,

55:11

it's hard to make a competition out of there's

55:13

no there's no as Steve's on There's no finish

55:15

line. Yeah Should

55:18

we make out yeah, well we already did but I guess

55:20

we can again we I guess

55:23

we have been for the last hour and Man,

55:27

thanks. Hey, man, you know, I'll just

55:29

gonna say one thing About

55:31

all that award stuff and I said it to you recently Yes

55:34

But you know, I've seen people go through different

55:36

phases and I've been through one you go through

55:38

changes things happen You get a little celebrated you

55:40

go abs and flows and all that You

55:44

haven't changed and that's like a crazy thing and I want people

55:46

to know that I want people to know That

55:49

that could have really you know, what's your name again? fuck

55:54

Shia labouf, I love your work,

55:57

but thanks. I love you.

55:59

Love you. Thank you for listening and

56:02

you know. I love this man, I love

56:04

you man. Hopefully there'll be more. There

56:07

may be more, yeah, maybe we'll follow this

56:09

up. You'll be my guest every time. Welcome

56:18

to the portion of the show called

56:20

That Just Happened. It's not really

56:22

called that show, I'm saying that ironically, but it may

56:24

in fact end up being called that. Or

56:27

I mean. I

56:29

can't even. That time you interviewed

56:31

Sam Rockwell. So that

56:33

time I interviewed Sam Rockwell, what did you think of

56:36

it? If it were a meme. I

56:38

picture you like doing like Macaulay Culkin

56:40

like hands to the face. I

56:43

know that you were nervous going into that. I was nervous,

56:46

it was weird to be nervous talking to a friend. But

56:48

I will say I don't think it showed. I

56:50

guess you are an actor, you were good at. I was

56:52

acting with my friend, I was acting, I was nervous but

56:54

I was acting like I was nervous. This is a perfect,

56:56

this is like a really good indication of who Sam is,

56:59

this is a really good, it's not much of a story,

57:01

but Sam used to live on an apartment just off, on

57:03

8th Street, off of 6th Avenue and there was this tiny

57:05

little, I couldn't have been more than like 300 square feet

57:07

tiny and slept on

57:10

a futon and he would always be like, hey

57:12

come on over, you should, you want to sleep

57:14

over? And so which meant he'd

57:16

want you to have the futon and he would sleep in like a

57:18

sleeping bag on the floor. And

57:20

there were boxes of, Sam loved cereal, cereal lined

57:22

up. And he had the walls were

57:25

just like covered with photos, photos

57:27

of his friends, that's Sam's family.

57:29

And when he finally moved into

57:31

a bigger apartment, the decorations and the walls became

57:33

the same photos that he had all smushed together

57:36

in the old apartment just like spread out. So

57:38

there'd be one every like three feet, like a

57:40

photo of one of his friends. It

57:43

was really charming. Were the cereal

57:45

boxes spread out too? No, because the kitchen

57:47

was the same size. It

57:49

had a small kitchen. But

57:51

he loved, and then like movie memorabilia, he's

57:53

really into, in fact he got me one

57:55

of the few things in my apartment, which

57:57

is a poster of the flamethrower. Mingo kid,

58:00

he got Matt Dillon to sign it for

58:02

me. But I

58:04

know I think that story is

58:06

really important because it illustrates who

58:09

he is and how he hasn't changed. I think that's, it's

58:11

a really good example of, you know. It's

58:14

not a great story, but it's a good indicator.

58:16

But it's a good indicator because, you know, after

58:18

all his success and, you know, making

58:20

more money and all that, he's still. He can

58:23

go out and buy like fancy. He still has

58:25

the same friends and he didn't

58:27

like straight up and start hanging out

58:29

like, you know, who

58:31

knows. Yeah, with the

58:33

Dalai Lama. Yeah, which we both seen.

58:37

I mean, I've seen that happen to people I

58:39

know. And yeah, to the point where

58:42

he is, yeah, it's

58:44

bizarre how little he's changed and a

58:46

testament to what his

58:48

character. There's something so innocent about Sam.

58:50

Yeah, I noticed this and this is

58:53

not a visual medium. So I don't

58:55

know if this will translate, but I

58:57

was watching the interview and I, and

58:59

I've noticed this about him before. When

59:01

he's talking to someone, he has this

59:04

way of like studying their face and

59:06

their expressions and I can see him.

59:09

He like shows his lower teeth. I

59:11

can see him digesting

59:14

someone's countenance, you know, and someone's mannerisms.

59:16

And he's such a like a student

59:18

of people. And you could see him.

59:20

He's like a sponge of human behavior.

59:22

Which again, you know, in the interview,

59:24

I thought it was so interesting

59:26

how much he talks about how he steals from

59:28

the great actors, from De Niro and all these

59:31

people. But I see him steal

59:33

from just random people that

59:35

he's talking to in a way. And I

59:37

wonder if you realize how much of that

59:39

he realizes, you could see him sort

59:42

of like really- Taking

59:44

cues. Just zoning in on

59:46

someone's face, you know? And he has

59:48

sort of like little smirk when

59:51

he's unsure of something. Yeah. You're

59:53

doing it really well right now. I

59:56

wish you guys could see this, but I find

59:58

myself doing it too. I have a similar- I've

1:00:01

stolen things from Sam. I mean I listen Sam

1:00:03

from Sam Yeah,

1:00:05

yeah weird tremendous. I

1:00:07

mean especially when I'm around you

1:00:09

such a unique He has

1:00:11

such a unique cadence. Yeah like

1:00:13

Christopher Walken. I mean I think they're there. They're

1:00:15

similarly unique Yeah, oh my god. I mean a

1:00:18

lot of it is oh

1:00:20

my god. It's tremendous. Yeah.

1:00:23

Oh, yeah He's he's also and sometimes

1:00:25

when I've outbursts of oh

1:00:28

my oh my god, like that's Sam Oh,

1:00:30

yeah, yeah, yeah when he's listening. It's oh

1:00:32

my god Yeah, we're not fully listening, you

1:00:35

know just like kind of instead of listening

1:00:37

fully to the question He's he's studying so

1:00:39

the way that someone's saying something. That's what

1:00:41

struck me It was it almost seemed at

1:00:44

like at times he was more

1:00:46

aware of how you were Saying

1:00:50

the question then what the content of the question

1:00:52

was, you know what I mean? He gets this

1:00:54

like knowing. Yeah Yeah, he's got a sort

1:00:56

of innocence about him. You know, he's got this Which

1:00:59

I found interesting that he he said that the

1:01:01

age that he His body aged

1:01:03

and pick forever before because he always struck me as

1:01:05

someone like such a Peter Pan

1:01:07

someone who's so innocent and Again,

1:01:11

which I'm sure helps his acting that he

1:01:13

has this he's this sort of open book

1:01:15

this sort of like has this naive spirit

1:01:17

About him. Yeah, there's also he

1:01:19

embraces moments Sam is

1:01:21

very good at being Phil Was

1:01:25

like that I mean, but both of them

1:01:27

share this they have They

1:01:30

laugh with real abandon when they find

1:01:32

something funny. They've I mean

1:01:34

Phil had this laugh That was just I mean

1:01:36

he laughed the way he acted. I mean he

1:01:38

just was like complete and

1:01:40

pure I'm like honest honest. So I

1:01:43

can't thank him enough for having done that and Thank

1:01:46

you guys for listening. I hope you enjoyed that Thank

1:01:55

you for listening to life is short if you like the

1:01:58

show, please give us a five-star review at least and

1:02:00

tell your friends to subscribe. We're available

1:02:02

on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and

1:02:04

every major listening app, as well as

1:02:06

wondery.com. Our theme song is

1:02:09

performed by our friend, Harmar Superstar. Life

1:02:11

is Short is hosted by me, Justin Long, produced

1:02:13

by Christian Long and Megan Monaco, senior

1:02:16

producer as Michelle Lands, executive

1:02:19

producer by Marsha Louis and Ernan Lopez

1:02:21

for Wondery. Doo doo doo

1:02:23

doo doo cha-boo! Oh

1:02:26

my god! I've said a lot of gross things

1:02:28

in my life, but I've heard a lot of gross things, but

1:02:31

I have never... Oh, you've said what you've... How can you be

1:02:33

so certain? Because there's no other place... I mean... But

1:02:35

mom, wouldn't you think I would have heard of that? Oh,

1:02:37

it makes my ass water? You say... Yes.

1:02:39

No. It really makes my

1:02:41

ass water. I remember you saying, you make my

1:02:43

bladder bleed. Or your brother, or someone else's water.

1:02:46

No, who else would I say that from me?

1:02:50

In the sense that I'm like sarcastically...

1:02:52

I don't even know what it means.

1:02:55

What does that mean? My ass water. It

1:02:58

makes me so happy. But what does that mean? I don't know.

1:03:01

I wouldn't have said something like that without if I didn't

1:03:03

even know what it means. Oh, yes you did. I remember

1:03:05

what you particular... Maybe it was the... Oh, so nice. Get

1:03:08

out of here. I've never even... I don't know

1:03:11

what it means. Oh, just... Some

1:03:13

watery ass is not a good thing. Hello,

1:03:17

I'm Johnny Knoxville. And I'm Elna Baker, and

1:03:19

we have a new podcast. It's called Pretty Sure I

1:03:21

Can Fly. Yep, we've teamed up with

1:03:23

my friends and bar mates from Smartless to

1:03:25

create a podcast where we talk to folks

1:03:27

who have more balls than a bowling alley.

1:03:30

People who accomplish something extraordinary despite people telling

1:03:32

them that it couldn't or shouldn't be done.

1:03:35

You'll hear stories about the Air Force doctor who

1:03:37

buckled into a 600 mile per hour

1:03:39

rocket sled and became the fastest man on the

1:03:41

planet. And a man who wrestles

1:03:43

alligators and sharks for fun. Do not do this.

1:03:47

You'll hear about a foul-mouthed moonshiner. Got a two

1:03:49

inch deck and a six inch tongue and knows

1:03:51

how to use both apples. And

1:03:53

an even more foul-mouthed female stunt pilot. We

1:03:56

got bull riders. Balloonists. Bob's

1:03:58

letters. And big ones. wave surfers,

1:04:00

people who lay their balls on an anvil

1:04:02

and hand the other fellow the hammer. I

1:04:05

bet you've actually done that, Johnny. Maybe for sweeps.

1:04:08

Follow Pretty Sure I Can Fly on the OneDury

1:04:10

app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can

1:04:13

listen to Pretty Sure I Can Fly early and

1:04:15

ad-free right now on OneDury Plus. I'm Dan Tibersky.

1:04:18

In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high

1:04:20

school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my

1:04:22

locker and she came up to me and she was

1:04:25

like stuttering super bad and like, stop f***ing around. She's

1:04:27

like, I can't. A

1:04:29

mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast. It's

1:04:31

like doubling and tripling and it's all these

1:04:33

girls. With a diagnosis, the state tried to

1:04:35

keep on the down low. Everybody thought I

1:04:38

was holding something back. Well, you were holding

1:04:40

something back intentionally. Yeah, well, yeah. No, it's

1:04:42

hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not

1:04:44

physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is

1:04:49

this the largest mass hysteria since the

1:04:51

witches of Salem? Or is it something