0:00

I'm really excited about today's episode.

0:02

My buddy Slick Johnson is

0:04

going to be joining me. He's been known

0:06

on social media is the guy who

0:08

really puts out everything that's happening

0:11

in fishing, the good, the bad, the ugly, and

0:13

we're talking about tournament and professional

0:15

fishing. On top of that, we

0:17

talk about a lot of the regulations that

0:19

have been proposed in the state of Alabama because

0:22

that's where Slick lives. He fishes

0:25

these lakes all the time. So what we plan

0:27

on getting into is the good, the bad, the ugly

0:29

of professional tournament fishing. We want

0:31

to talk about some of the regulations that have been

0:33

put out there and also live

0:36

scope along with up

0:38

and coming anglers. What really

0:40

makes high school fishing and college fishermen

0:43

different than what we all knew. So

0:46

Sleck, first, I want to talk about the Coosa River

0:49

and the proposed slot limit. Do you think anything's

0:51

actually going to happen.

0:52

I think that we'll end up going

0:54

to a minilmo probably fifteen inches,

0:57

maybe even sixteen inches. But what's

0:59

crazy is that, like I just left Mobile

1:02

and I was at something similar for

1:04

the saltwater people, they do something

1:07

very similar. The

1:09

state the Marine Resources

1:11

people come in and they talk

1:13

like it's a recommendation, but we want

1:15

to hear from you guys. We want to get uston.

1:18

Yeah, and so the

1:20

first guy that spoke, he gives

1:23

they're talking about flounder, redfish,

1:25

sharks, commercial netting, triple

1:29

tail, you name it. They're talking about all these fish

1:32

and they're saying, you know, we're trying

1:34

to make these we're making these recommendations of

1:36

what we should do. And they got all these charts,

1:39

but it's kind of like the

1:41

one for the Coaser River. The data

1:43

was incomplete. They took a very small sample

1:46

and that and so how do you get the

1:49

data? And that's

1:51

my issue with the whole Coast of River thing

1:53

was you came and you I

1:56

believe in science, but

1:58

you came and took such a small

2:01

sample from the worst

2:03

lake of six and

2:06

then we want to say this is what you

2:08

need. And so listen, I get

2:10

it with us, some of us old

2:12

rednecks throw a bunch of fish in

2:14

there, and I don't fix it. I get it. I

2:18

get it because I used to be that

2:20

guy. I used to be that guy that said, why

2:22

don't we just put one hundred thousand f ones.

2:26

But then when you know, these

2:28

bologists have taught us that, hey,

2:30

you gotta have the habitat. And

2:33

here's the other thing. If they go throw

2:36

one hundred f ones in there, we're

2:38

just going to deplanish that racesource as

2:40

fast as we call.

2:42

That's why my main conversation

2:44

that I think I always target

2:46

on is the conservation side. Like conservation,

2:49

when people hear that, they think, well, we need to save

2:51

the animals. It's not saving

2:54

the animals that you can't properly

2:56

go through and call and take some out and do

2:58

this. You have to get give animals

3:00

an opportunity to thrive in

3:02

the area that they're in. And

3:05

it's no different than I've heard people say, well what about

3:07

they start putting antler restrictions out

3:09

there, And antler restrictions are actually

3:11

kind of good when it comes to deer hunting if you want

3:13

to go after bigger deer, but if you want

3:16

to have better deer, bigger

3:18

deer populations, and maybe not

3:20

even the populations, but you just want to have a healthier

3:23

deer, you have to supply them

3:25

with stuff that makes them healthier, and food.

3:27

Habitat is everything. Obviously,

3:29

Genetics plays a part. That's the same thing with fish,

3:32

food, habitat, and genetics, that all plays

3:34

a part, absolutely.

3:36

And I've

3:38

read the things that this same biologists

3:41

rode about Texas saying it's

3:43

a marketing ploy But then okay, Texas

3:46

has a better habitat for the fish.

3:49

I don't think there's anywhere in Texas

3:51

that can compare to light Gunersfield right.

3:53

Now as far as like the

3:55

size, the bags, the fish.

3:57

Quality, and what

3:59

we're learning because of Liavscope has

4:01

taught us. And I was on the phone with

4:03

Jordan right before I came in here. Jordan

4:06

Lee and we were talking and

4:08

we were like, do you think the fish

4:10

have always been here? We we didn't

4:13

know. And so when you go out there

4:15

right now and people see these weights and

4:18

it looks incredible, and it is okay,

4:21

But for these guys that

4:23

are catching thirty four pounds, look,

4:25

I've caught twenty eight to thirty pounds every day I've

4:28

been to guns I've been over there eight

4:30

times in the last two weeks. But

4:32

Hayden Marvin and Tucker Smith are catching

4:34

thirty five pounds, Brody

4:37

Robinson's catching thirty three, Bryce

4:39

Kissler's catching thirty three, so.

4:41

And of course everybody is just going to go with the easy thing. Oh

4:43

they're just scoping. But they're doing something a little

4:45

different than everybody else.

4:46

It's different, and let me tell you something, you've

4:48

got to be really, really good at it. But

4:51

what I have realized is

4:53

that there are so many six

4:56

to eight pounders in that lake. It's incredible. I

4:58

had no idea. Now,

5:00

on the conservation side of it, are

5:03

we what are we doing to

5:06

the resource by catching these

5:08

Fish's never been caught before this time of year.

5:11

This is the time that they went and fed up, and

5:13

they weren't disturbed, They had no

5:15

stress. When

5:17

you look at the tails on these fish and they're holding

5:19

them up, they're blood red. They look like they've been on bed.

5:22

And I had a biologist tell me. He said, they're

5:25

stressed out because they're putting

5:27

them in the live well. And everybody

5:30

thinks that When I go out

5:32

talking about catchway release, they say, oh,

5:34

it's because of fishing Chaos and that sort of

5:36

thing. And I'm like, okay,

5:38

I don't get paid a penny by fishing chaos.

5:41

I hooked up with Fishing Chaos four years ago

5:44

because they did have the technology to do Catchway

5:46

Release. You

5:48

know, I listened to your podcast with K and

5:51

I heard K say, you know, one of the

5:53

things was about cost. We can't do it because

5:55

of the cost. Her next sentence was,

5:58

we spent over one hundred thousand dollars.

6:02

So ating

6:04

your lias, this is about us, This is

6:06

about us changing the way we think

6:09

reprogramming. Yes, and look,

6:13

weigh ins are about ego, and

6:15

it always has been. It's for all of us.

6:18

But there's no doubt because I agree

6:20

with you on walking up and

6:22

having two big fish like you want to show them off.

6:24

There is no doubt. And I bet Jordan

6:27

would say the same thing. You go to a bass

6:29

Master Classic. The excitement

6:31

that you see in a bass Master Classic when somebody

6:33

holds up giant fish. You

6:35

sit there and you go, dude, that's that's huge.

6:37

You go to Red Crest, you already know who the winner

6:39

is by the time they get to the past floor.

6:41

That was one of Jordan's reasons for coming back.

6:44

I mean, and that, but that does

6:46

mean something in the world to make

6:48

a sport interesting and entertaining.

6:49

Absolutely, But at the same time,

6:52

you know, is it really the fish holding

6:55

up that we're all excited about because

6:57

I love watching that truck come driving into

6:59

the Classic and that guy getting out,

7:01

and yes, we want to see him hold up fish, But

7:03

why can't we bring one? Why can't we bring two?

7:06

And you know, one

7:08

of Jordan's things was we talked about it one day,

7:11

you know, in depth. Why are you wanting to

7:13

go back so bad? Because on

7:15

it? I mean, honestly, he made more money at thean my left.

7:19

Why are you wanting to come back? And well, I miss

7:21

the fans, I miss you know, meeting

7:23

people at the way in and whatnot. But

7:25

let's just be realistic about it. Okay,

7:28

that way in costs hundreds of thousands of dollars

7:31

to have when you're there for four days. Sure

7:33

we could be putting that money back into pay it. And

7:37

the whole fishing tournament thing is is

7:40

screwed up anyway, because the

7:42

way we've always had it is you put money in, you

7:44

go catch five, and you come show them off

7:47

and oh, by the way, you're gonna be fishing

7:49

for nine hours. And that's not exciting

7:51

for people to watch dollan hours of fishing.

7:54

But that same argument is made when

7:56

it comes to like a golf tournament a golf tournament.

7:58

You don't want to watch somebody play eighteen whole golf.

8:01

You have to go around. You got to find the interest

8:03

in the action when it's happening. In most golf

8:05

tournaments, they only come down to the last couple holes.

8:07

So, you know, do you just show

8:09

the last three holes of a tournament on the last

8:12

day.

8:12

No.

8:12

They obviously put it out there because they want

8:15

advertisers to see there's

8:17

eyes on this, this is how we can make money.

8:19

That's the same thing with the bass tournaments when they

8:21

have the four day Classic, they

8:23

have it there because they want their advertisers

8:25

to be able to maximize the money that they

8:27

spent to be in front of people. So if

8:30

we did away with that, you know, you would

8:32

potentially the organizations would lose

8:34

some advertising dollars, might not lose the advertiser,

8:38

but they might not make the money that they do.

8:39

Who do you think makes more moneytising

8:44

from advertising?

8:45

I would probably say MLF and

8:48

the And the big reason is they have a

8:50

lot of different fingers

8:52

to what they do. You know, they do

8:54

the team tournament, but then they have you

8:56

know, the BPT and then they've got the tackle

8:59

warehouse and all these things are really

9:01

televised or at least done well online.

9:04

If you're gonna see the Bass Pro Tour,

9:06

you've gotta go to your phone. You've

9:08

gotta go online. Therefore, you

9:11

gotta see their sponsors. And

9:13

you know, I was really hard on boy duck

9:15

It for a long time after if okay,

9:18

boy duck It and I talk occasionally,

9:22

and I was really hard on him, but it was

9:24

about things that was going on within

9:27

the organization. I'm the biggest

9:29

MLF fan and always have been. I

9:31

think that boy duck It and Gary Klein

9:34

did the greatest thing it's ever been done in bass

9:36

fishing as far as conservation goes.

9:39

When they went to catchwave release. Took a lot of

9:41

balls to do that, sure, and that's

9:43

the greatest thing that's ever been done because

9:45

we did it at the top level. I'm

9:48

doing one at Gunnersville this next Sunday

9:50

Catchway release. It's

9:53

all studs fishing it. Bubba

9:55

gave us the skills, or

9:58

they didn't give them to us gto purchased

10:01

them, but they gave us a really good price. And what

10:03

we're trying to do there is go to instead

10:06

of that Tuesday night or guys bringing in

10:09

you know, five six pounders

10:11

is we're going to go to catchway release. And you

10:14

know, I heard it the other day in your podcast

10:16

with Kay where she said, you know, we can't

10:19

have an observer on every boat.

10:21

Do we have one now? Because

10:24

you can't tell me they don't cheat? Now, you

10:26

know, if people want it. Are not saying

10:29

people on ABT, but I'm saying people in tournaments.

10:31

If people want to cheat, they're

10:33

going to cheat. And quite the true

10:36

thing, and we hate changes past

10:38

fishermen, but the honest

10:40

and the facts are And

10:43

we've got a video that's coming out in the next two

10:45

weeks that we do with fishing chaos. If

10:48

you watch my son in a way and I don't post

10:50

a lot of videos about my kid, but if you watch the

10:52

ones from his way in, he rolls

10:55

that bag up, he soaks it till

10:57

the last second, and he takes off

10:59

running to the scales and gets it up there. Hey,

11:02

probably gets six or right ounces more

11:04

in every turn.

11:05

Yeah, he doesn't want the water to come off.

11:07

So when you're now, because

11:09

of technology we have with catchway

11:11

release, weighing

11:13

them in the boat is way more accurate

11:15

they do.

11:16

You know, what tim over at Hammond's Fishing

11:19

in the near so they've been doing this for

11:21

a while. They were actually the first ones that

11:23

that I saw, and they did on the scale that they

11:25

did where if you want to get into their

11:27

digital tournament, you show up to Hammond's

11:29

the tackle shop. They have eighty

11:32

scales and they're all

11:35

set scales. They're all the same exact

11:37

type of scale. They're all set up

11:39

the same exact way, and you have

11:42

to go out and you have to record with your phone

11:44

and it can't have any chops or any edits.

11:46

It's got to show you holding the fish, clipping

11:48

the fish, getting the the read out

11:50

of the weight, bringing the fish over to the side

11:53

of the boat, unclipping it, and letting the fish walk

11:55

in while everything is in frame. And I

11:57

do say that when k brought up to me, she

11:59

was like, well, look, I got a lot of older guys that fish

12:01

abt they might not be interested in doing it. I don't

12:03

disagree with her.

12:04

I think there's.

12:05

Plenty of people that are going to be like, oh, I'm not interested

12:07

in doing that. The reality

12:09

is connectivity is still going

12:12

to be the hardest part for a lot of tournament

12:14

organizations, because you do get in

12:16

some backwaters where all of a sudden you're like, we don't

12:18

have connections. MLF they had to

12:20

have those satellite packs on the back of

12:22

their boats in order to have some sort

12:25

of connection. So that's

12:27

the only downfall that I see

12:29

to it. But after doing several

12:31

digital tournaments, it just seems

12:33

like everything's going to go there and

12:35

people will have to adapt. But again, the

12:38

people that will have to adapt are

12:40

really guys my age,

12:42

your age. The younger kids, they already

12:44

understand the technology stuff that's going

12:46

to be quick for them to do, but some

12:49

of the older guys, like in the next ten

12:51

years, they can either get on it or they don't have to.

12:53

Yeah, and I'll think five

12:56

years from now, almost

12:59

every boat starlink are

13:02

some version of that.

13:04

Well in all these companies too, the AT and

13:06

T's, the Verizons of the world, the t

13:08

mobiles, they're all getting better, they're getting

13:11

I mean, it's it sounds perfect

13:13

for a lot of people now with catchway release,

13:16

but we also have to wait for a lot of the technology

13:18

to continue to get out.

13:20

There and their scales being created

13:22

that I can't even can't really talk about right now.

13:24

But I'll say this to kind of give you a hint.

13:28

Our phones have lasers in them. Yeah,

13:30

and if I take a picture of you, I

13:32

can tell you exactly how long your

13:34

arms are, your feet, how tall you are hold nine

13:36

yards by the lasers in that phone. And

13:39

so we're getting to that point technology

13:41

wise, to where we are going to be able

13:43

to take a picture of a fish and know how much it

13:46

weighs and we don't even have to have the scale.

13:48

Five years ago, Gold's Gym

13:50

rolled out a program to where you would

13:52

walk in as a new client of Gold Gym. They

13:55

would have you stand in what looked like

13:57

a tanning bed, just put up on the side.

14:00

It would scan your body, would do a whole three sixty

14:02

and it would show you body

14:04

fat content, It would show you how tall you are,

14:07

how much you weigh. It broke everything down. That

14:09

was the early days. Now, I mean

14:11

you see that technology every single day

14:13

when you go to the airport. I mean, we have it.

14:16

It's just it's it's got to get better. It's

14:18

easier to adopt it now and

14:20

watch it continue to get better. Because

14:22

if you have one of the new Bubba scales, you

14:25

can already have a tournament with what five

14:27

to ten of your friends or whatever.

14:29

And it's listen, it's getting to the point

14:32

and I can say this, The

14:38

BFLS will

14:41

have that pretty soon. I

14:44

mean it's coming all the way down to that level.

14:47

So people are gonna get used

14:49

to it. It's gonna

14:51

be a thing. I mean, that's one of Boyd's

14:53

big things is to get it. He wants

14:55

just catch away release at to be a fil level

14:58

and it kind of solves those problems

15:00

of doing a slot lambit.

15:03

You know.

15:05

The problem then will be how many fish do we actually

15:08

as anglers, not just tournament anglers, as

15:10

anglers, do we need to take out of the lakes every every

15:12

year?

15:13

And and the argument has always

15:15

been from the conservation people that

15:17

we're not taking enough out right. And

15:20

so that's why when.

15:23

Race got started Catchway and or when

15:25

he started catching release,

15:27

everybody was like, what you can't do that you

15:30

talking about? Like they were mad at him. Yeah,

15:32

they were yelling at him like you have to put those fish

15:35

in somebody's bag and take those

15:37

things out of here, and.

15:39

We need a okay. Bass

15:41

stands for Bass Angler Sportsman Society.

15:44

When it started, we had

15:46

an organization that was there for conservation,

15:49

an organization that fought with us, fought

15:52

for us with the conservation

15:54

people, or you know the states

15:57

in the saltwater world, you have CCA

16:00

Conservation of America. There's a chapter in most

16:02

of the coastal states and they

16:04

go directly to the

16:06

Marines resources people and says, hey, this

16:09

is what we want, this is what we need,

16:11

this is what our anglers are fighting for, and whatnot,

16:14

and you kind of have a go between.

16:17

We don't have that in the BASS world anymore. We did.

16:20

That's what BASS started as. Now Bass

16:22

is a business that basically

16:25

helps a printing company, is what BASS is.

16:27

Therefore, because of the ownership, yeah,

16:29

it's.

16:30

Not you know, that's what BASS

16:32

is. Therefore, it's not We're not conservationists

16:35

anymore. To so to speaker, we don't

16:37

have a voice for the angler.

16:40

Now, it's all about a business.

16:41

I wonder if Chase Anderson and the guys over there

16:44

would actually entertain a conversation about

16:46

having that as a thread of

16:48

what their model is. Because in hunting you

16:50

have Safari Club International SCI

16:53

where they're the only hunting group

16:56

that has actual full time attorneys

16:59

that fight state governments, federal

17:01

governments, international governments

17:04

to protect hunters and hunting rights. And

17:06

I reached out to a couple of them after the first

17:08

conversation about the Coosa River slot

17:11

lit it came up and I said to them, I

17:13

go, who would be a good resource And

17:15

they were like, Bass would probably be the best

17:18

one. But you're right, they don't really activate that

17:20

arm or even focus on that as much

17:22

as it probably was set up to be.

17:25

Kay has one of the biggest voices probably

17:28

for us as far as Alabama. You

17:31

know, she's the one

17:33

that has the connections to contacts, to talk to

17:35

people. And you

17:38

know, you don't look. Lee Holmes

17:40

was in here, Ley, I tell you right now, he's not

17:42

the one you want to be. You

17:46

don't need that person that's you know, that gets

17:48

so emotional about it and I lovely, but

17:51

you know his passionate,

17:54

passionate And you know I

17:57

called him one day because we

17:59

got at the talking and when

18:02

I listened to your podcast with

18:04

them, I called him and I

18:06

chewed him out. I was okay, I

18:08

said, you know what you sounded like? He said

18:11

what I said, somebody that will not give

18:13

an inch and just it's

18:15

your way or no way, and I said,

18:18

and what are you doing with your tournament? How are

18:20

you you know? And so he was like, Okay, you're

18:22

right, You're right, I do need to I probably, you

18:25

know, I'm willing to compromise. I

18:27

said, it didn't sound like it, But

18:29

it didn't sound like it. He came on my

18:31

live that night and man, he

18:35

he was fired up. And you know, we have

18:37

to be able to compromise because at the end of the day, we

18:39

as fishermen don't know what's best. We don't

18:42

and we always want to We always

18:44

want to pick what helps us

18:46

the most.

18:47

Sure. That's why the conversations from

18:50

what we've heard from the opinion

18:52

of biologists or people at the DCNR

18:55

is that they feel like people who argue

18:57

against this are only doing it for selfish reason.

19:00

There's plenty of things that all of us do that are

19:02

selfish reasons. We all want to go out and fish in

19:04

tournaments. We all want to have an opportunity

19:06

to not just get a check, but we want to win

19:08

a tournament. I mean, who doesn't want to take home

19:11

a prize of one hundred thousand dollars. Are

19:13

there things that some of these major tournaments

19:15

need to do, like MLF and BASS and increase

19:17

the payouts. Yes. Are there things

19:19

that they're trying to do to make

19:21

it seem like they're making the organizations

19:24

better. Yes? Are they backtracking

19:27

or they throw something out there and then they change

19:29

their mind the next two days. Yes,

19:32

you can't do that. Like the pr side

19:34

to me is like you have to do something,

19:36

stick with it, and then slowly phase

19:39

it out if it didn't work. Yeah, it's

19:41

interesting the bass world now because

19:44

it is it's kind of at a head, Like

19:46

we all kind of knew that it was going to go to catchway

19:49

release, It just might be here

19:51

a little faster than people wanted it to be.

19:53

Yeah, because if you think, I mean

19:56

all over the country now, especially

20:00

and live scout Listen, I'm not

20:02

four against lof scope. I could care less you

20:04

have eighty four translucers or you ban it, I don't

20:06

care. But live

20:09

scopes made it a lot more efficient

20:11

for catching fish and catching

20:14

bigger bags, and I think that's going to have

20:16

effect on an effect on lakes all

20:18

over the country.

20:19

Look, you and I went fishing on Gunnersville.

20:21

You pulled up to a point, you said,

20:24

there's one right there on the bottom and you threw

20:26

a little crankbait out there, and I watched it go

20:28

right over top of his back. He turned and

20:30

you, I mean the live scope. You're

20:32

able to tell what that fish is doing,

20:34

how they react, whether or not they're in a mood

20:37

to chase, if that's the right bait. Efficiency

20:39

is key with everything. People that think

20:41

you have live scope on your boat and you can just go out

20:43

and catch every fish, oh sadly mistaken.

20:46

Oh God, you get

20:48

to see an inside look. You get to peek inside

20:50

their bedroom to know what they're

20:52

doing. It's a look that nobody

20:55

in fishing's ever seen until it came out.

20:57

I'll give you an example of something that's happened

20:59

over the last as twelve days

21:01

at Gunnersfield. And

21:04

some of the studs that get mad at me for telling

21:06

secrets or whatever, but whatever. Those

21:10

fish that everybody was catching

21:13

was typically no more than four feet under

21:15

the water surface. They were staying

21:18

up hiding a water column. The

21:20

baits out in the middle of the river, middle

21:22

of the creeks, and we

21:25

call them floaters. The floaters

21:27

are easy to catch. Now you get

21:29

me one down there, it's twenty two foot deep.

21:31

I ain't throwing at it, hugging the bottom.

21:33

Yeah, you give me one of fourteen foot deep. I'm not throwing

21:35

at it. We're lazy when it comes to that, because

21:37

we know that if I troll

21:39

through these bait balls enough, I'm going

21:42

to find five six pound floaters.

21:45

Well, we had that big coal front

21:48

black Friday. Black Fridays,

21:50

when they caught the big bags

21:53

Saturday, everything

21:56

changed. All the bait had

21:58

been up in eight to ten foot of

22:00

water, and those big bass would sit

22:02

over the top of them, and all

22:06

the bait went to the bottom. And so now the bass

22:08

now the only floaters changed,

22:11

and the only floaters up there are the ones that hadn't figured

22:13

it out yet. Yeah, you know, but that

22:16

that brought the other thing that it taught

22:18

me, and so

22:20

that you remember when album rig got so good. You

22:23

remember when it came out and it was just crazy.

22:25

Sure, so I

22:27

think I figured out why

22:30

it was good because of

22:32

lascope. I watched this. Those

22:34

bass don't typically the little bass will

22:36

go in a bait ball and you'll see it a

22:39

big hole in it, and they're eating in the baitball. The

22:41

giants are sitting up there waiting and what

22:45

they're waiting for its five

22:47

or six fish shad

22:49

to get spooked by those little ones, and

22:52

then they go grab those five or six And

22:54

it hit me. I was like, that

22:56

was just the a rig was natural

22:59

because the bait balls

23:01

up for protection.

23:03

You have fifty thousand threadfin in

23:06

one ball, But then you see this one

23:08

that's got six and you throw it out on the edge,

23:10

and all of a sudden you get picked up.

23:12

Because for you and I, common

23:14

sense would say, why don't they just go through there with

23:16

their mouth open and get a big ring like

23:18

a whale. Yeah, it's not safe.

23:21

That's not the way nature intended it.

23:24

And so those bigger bass set out away

23:26

from the bait ball, they wait for five

23:28

or six shed to get spooked and they

23:30

go get them. The big bass are

23:32

not in there.

23:34

But that's that's the same argument that a lot

23:36

of guys have with brush piles. You

23:38

throw in a brush pile, you catch one one

23:40

and a half or another one and a half or

23:42

another one to have her. Guys will quit and

23:44

they'll go that's all that's here. You're casting

23:47

the same exact spot. If you start to pick

23:49

off the edges, maybe go out

23:51

a couple feet all of a sudden, you're not

23:53

getting nearly as many bites, but two

23:55

to one and a halfs doesn't match a five. Scope

23:58

shows us now the attitude

24:01

that I feel like a lot of guys have with live scope,

24:03

and it's funny like that

24:06

argument for a lot of guys, whether or not it's

24:08

good or bad died pretty quickly when

24:10

that slot let Me came out. People were like, oh, well,

24:12

this is where I'm going to focus my anger with

24:14

live scope. If you can read

24:17

the temperament of what a bass is doing. Because

24:19

you talked about Black Friday, I was on Logan Martin.

24:22

You caught him on Logan Martin. I mean it was a

24:24

catching day, but the next day

24:26

you go out there, that cold front kind of settled

24:28

in. Most guys know after a cold front

24:31

two to three days is what you want that to

24:33

kind of stabilize back to normal. You couldn't catch

24:35

them, No, it was almost impossible

24:37

to get a good one on the line.

24:39

Well, let me ask you this. Do

24:42

you know of anybody that's a

24:45

stud or very efficient

24:47

with that's ever said

24:49

we.

24:49

Need to no,

24:52

no, and listen.

24:54

I'll call him out. I don't mind

24:56

calling him out. Matt Hair I speak

24:58

to Matt hair and almost every day. Okay, Matt

25:00

hates Livescote. Matt has

25:02

some great points about what

25:05

Livescape's doing to the lakes or could be

25:07

possibly doing to the lakes, but

25:11

there's been a lot of energy fussing about when

25:15

you better just go out there and figure out how to do

25:17

it. And it's

25:20

not what the argument

25:22

that drives me crazy and not to get in a big Livescope

25:25

debate, but is when I hear

25:27

these guys think that

25:29

you're just going and dropping the troll motor wherever

25:32

and randomly catching thirty pounds,

25:35

that is not the case. You

25:38

still have to know where, you

25:40

still have to be able to attract

25:42

that fish and being Milliken said it one

25:44

time and I got mad when he said it. Now

25:47

it's it's one of the truest things ever.

25:51

At the Classic last year he made a comment

25:53

about he guess he should have just

25:55

went randomly through it the bank, blindly hoping

25:57

to catch a fish with a chatter bait. I

26:01

thought that wasn't that

26:03

wasn't cool to say. Now you're saying that the guys

26:05

that are leading and just got lucky. But

26:08

then he clarified what he was talking about.

26:11

He said, when I'm fishing, he

26:13

said, I know what I'm throwing at, and

26:16

I'm having to figure out how

26:18

to make that bite that fish

26:22

go to my bait. I know exactly what I'm

26:24

doing, and I

26:26

have to make the right presentation at

26:30

the right time to get that fistory act.

26:32

He said. What I was saying was

26:36

these guys are just randomly going and throwing blind

26:38

and hoping ones there in bites.

26:40

Now, what

26:43

he doesn't understand is that they're

26:45

not just randomly throwing there.

26:48

You know, they're throwing somewhere that they're supposed to

26:50

be. And I think that's the disconnect

26:52

between our generation and the young generation. We

26:55

get mad because they didn't have to figure it out.

26:58

We had to know why the fish sure there,

27:01

and they don't have to know. And that

27:03

was the one thing I always told like growing up, you

27:05

never catch fish by accident. Figure

27:08

out why you called that fish because there's a reason.

27:11

And I never would buy him a

27:13

sixty two transition because I didn't want him to see three or

27:15

four hundred feet because then I was afraid he would

27:17

just go out and scan. But the

27:20

older generation, I feel like the

27:24

disconnect there is. Hey, we had to figure

27:26

all that out and y'all got a cheat code,

27:32

but the older generation had to cheat code first

27:35

in the elite.

27:35

But here's the thing. You

27:38

want live scoopers involved in fishing.

27:41

And the reason is because when you can go

27:43

out and you can actually catch consistently

27:45

five to ten to fifteen to twenty bass a day,

27:47

whether they're good fish or not fish, or they're

27:50

not the ones that are going to win you a tournament, but you're catching,

27:52

especially at a young age, we want kids catching.

27:54

We want them to know what it feels like to get

27:57

a tug on the line that keeps their interest

27:59

in it. The reason why we really want

28:01

live scopers is who's more

28:03

dedicated to putting out habitat on a

28:05

regular basis. Is that the guys

28:07

that are beating the bank in less than four feet,

28:10

No, it's the guys who are

28:12

looking for a new target area

28:15

in maybe twenty food of water. So what

28:17

do they do. They put out brush piles. They

28:19

figure out what brush piles are best.

28:21

And sure you get the argument of like somebody's

28:24

on my brush pile. We saw that at you falla

28:27

Let's be real once it goes in the water. You

28:29

have no ownership of that. If I go by my

28:31

side scan and I see it all of a sudden, I can market

28:34

and I can go back and I can fish it. Whether it's quote

28:36

unquote yours or not. The reality

28:38

is every bit of it

28:40

is good for the sport. The impact that I could

28:42

agree with Matt Heron and some of these guys on

28:45

is will it put more stress

28:47

on fish? Could it be worse for fish

28:49

in the populations in the future. And

28:51

there's a chance that we could say yes. But again,

28:54

as tournament fishermen, we haven't

28:56

done what biologists and conservationists

28:59

want us to do, which is take some of

29:01

those fish out. Remember the tournament

29:03

I think it was last year. It was part of MLF

29:06

and it was in Mississippi. I think guys

29:08

were catching fish, they were bringing them over to the tube,

29:10

they were putting it in, and then they didn't even put

29:12

them in the tube. They were just putting them in dudes' bags in

29:15

coolers, and there were people that

29:17

were like, what is this look that

29:20

actually kind of needed to happen. I was upset

29:22

when I first saw it. I was like, you can't, like, you can't

29:24

do that. The sportsman side of me was

29:26

like, actually, you really shouldn't do that because

29:28

they're not catching the fish as their limit.

29:31

That's just us giving them away. I've seen

29:33

guys in Georgia who will go out to

29:35

Lake Lanier, They'll catch fish and then they'll sell

29:37

them. I'm like, I'm pretty sure

29:39

you can't do that. But we have to take

29:42

some of these fish out. And that's

29:44

why when I saw the mortality rate that everybody

29:46

was complaining about. The complaint

29:49

that they have about the mortality rate is that the

29:51

dead fish are back in the water.

29:53

Yeah, and so at that point, what does it

29:55

matter if you give them somebody? But here's

29:57

what I want to know, is that mortality

29:59

rate accurate? How do we know it's accurate?

30:01

And how do we know it came from tournament fishing? Because

30:04

the kill that happened on Lay

30:07

Lake in the north part of the river, where

30:09

they weren't running water for three or four weeks,

30:12

that kill rate was worse than any tournament

30:14

that they had down there, and all those fish

30:16

go to spoil. But we need

30:18

to remember that there are animals

30:21

that eat those fish, and even

30:23

if they decompose and they go back into

30:25

the water, there's biomechanisms

30:28

and organisms that are in the water that also

30:30

feed on those fish. So it's really not

30:32

wasting. It's wasting if we just drive down the

30:35

road and knock them out, and then we shoe off

30:37

all the birds that come over to get them.

30:38

Well. And you know, I've called

30:41

people out high school organizations, different

30:43

organizations.

30:44

I think a change has to happen in high school though.

30:46

When they've had fish kells. And this

30:48

is one thing I want people to understand. I

30:52

am very diligent when

30:55

it comes to a fish kill, and

30:57

people see these things that I post. I don't

30:59

post ninety nine point and I'm saying stuff get sent

31:01

to me. But if I get

31:03

a fish kill, I'm gonna go check it out. I'm

31:06

gonna find out what they were doing

31:08

with their tanks. I'm gonna find out that the oxygen I'm

31:10

gonna find I'm gonna find out everything before I post

31:12

anything. And if

31:14

I post something on there about a fish

31:16

kill, those people did a shitty

31:18

job. The ABT

31:21

had one this year over at Town Creek.

31:23

Nobody ever heard me post that. I

31:25

got hundreds of pictures from that. People

31:28

sending me videos mad because I wouldn't talk about

31:30

it. Oh, you just won't post it

31:32

because o Kay. Let me and Kay hate each other right now?

31:34

Okay, so I ain't got no reason not about

31:36

it, all right. So but

31:41

I try to get these terminent organizations

31:43

to just do right, just

31:46

do better. We're always

31:48

gonna have fish kills. That's gonna happen, and

31:51

sometimes you can't help it. Sometimes

31:54

you do everything you can and you

31:56

just can't help it. Something happens.

31:58

The high school thing, though, is interesting because

32:02

that's where I think a little bit of control

32:05

needs to happen. I think we need to

32:07

limit the amount of boats that go in. I think it

32:09

needs to be treated like high school football, where

32:12

you're trying to make a team, or if you're

32:14

on a team. I remember playing golf in high school,

32:17

and if we were going to be in a tournament, we had to qualify

32:20

amongst our team in order to qualify for that

32:22

tournament.

32:23

That's the best thing I've heard.

32:25

I think that that's obviously a key

32:27

that we should do. Going to three fish, I've

32:29

heard arguments from people where they

32:31

say three fishesn't enough to really make a

32:34

big difference. But I also

32:36

look at the quality in the fishermen

32:38

that you have in high school. And this is

32:40

not a knock. This is simply time on the water

32:43

and the ability to do it. You have a kid

32:45

like Fisher and Aya who's out there all the time.

32:47

Your son Late, he's out on the water all the time.

32:50

These kids have the ability

32:52

to go out on the water, they put the time in. There's

32:55

an interest there. They have that level. There's other

32:57

kids where they don't have that opportunity,

32:59

but they don't want to fishing tournaments. We shouldn't

33:01

discourage them from fishing, but we should

33:04

also make it a place where it's

33:06

a it's learning over winning

33:08

for sure. At the high school level, yes,

33:12

because your kid's going out he's learned every day.

33:14

Fisher's learned every day.

33:15

There was no reason and

33:18

and people that take this as me saying it Ergont

33:20

and I don't mean it that way. My

33:22

son has no benefit to fish in a high school

33:24

tournament because if he goes and

33:27

loses and has a bad day. He didn't have a

33:29

good day at Logan Martin a couple of weeks ago on high scho tournament.

33:32

What happened? What what's

33:34

wrong? We because

33:36

I didn't win? And when

33:39

we pulled up and we told people how much weight

33:41

they had. Everybody's like, oh, he's got a big bag.

33:43

He's lying, he's lying, and

33:46

you know it's it's one of those things where Lake

33:48

does get to fish every day. He fishes five days

33:50

a week minimum. There's

33:53

a lot of kids at that level Fisher

33:56

when when Fisher was at that level, and man

33:58

had no business fishing against the host kids

34:01

because they

34:03

they were gonna catch them every single time. However,

34:07

Fisher and I, as good

34:09

as he is, would go

34:11

and have a tenth place finish

34:14

and then people say, oh, well he ain't that good.

34:16

Then, Uh no, yeah,

34:18

I disagree with the whole you know, saying

34:20

that to a kid because he didn't have a

34:22

great day.

34:23

Here's what we started doing when Lake was

34:25

in ninth grade, starting

34:27

eighth. His eighth and ninth

34:29

grade year, he won more tournaments

34:32

those two years than he ever had. I

34:35

quit. I was not gonna go fish Asa BFA

34:37

anymore. I wasn't fishing fast Nation, I'm

34:39

not fishing in Alabama. We're

34:41

gonna go fish the opens. Because

34:44

what it became was let's

34:46

go and beat our chest fishing

34:49

on our home lake. Like people

34:52

say home Lake Look Lakes Home Lakes, Pickwick

34:56

Lake's Home, Lake's Wheeler, Gunnersville,

34:59

Smith Lake because he fishes them so

35:01

much. So I

35:03

said, hey, if I'm gonna teach my kid about fishing

35:06

and he's going to go to the next level, we need

35:08

to go instead of fishing the Bass Nation tournament

35:10

on Whealer Lake today, Let's go to

35:12

harsh Chain and fish the Bass Master Open. Let's

35:15

go to Sam Rayburn and fish the Bass Master

35:17

Open. Let's go fish the MLF. And

35:19

so we started traveling all over. Because

35:23

there's what you said

35:25

about people qualifying within

35:28

the school, best thing I've ever heard, because

35:30

I've been in it and I've seen it. And

35:33

if I got say, I got twelve

35:36

teams right on my high school team.

35:41

Three of them are good

35:44

fisher three teams are good fishermen. They

35:46

could do well. Most of the time.

35:49

I would have kids show up without

35:52

rod and reels. I

35:54

had a kid when we went to Lake Martin. I told

35:56

everybody to put a foot braid

35:58

with a floor carbon leader. This kid

36:00

comes with twenty pounds fluorescent mono,

36:04

you know. And so that

36:08

was the best thing I had heard. To limit

36:10

the numbers these high schools

36:12

can go and have in house tournaments,

36:15

or.

36:15

Heck, you can have county.

36:16

You can have in the county and then take the

36:19

top twelve and then you get to go to the tournament. But

36:22

we tried to do that when I

36:24

was at West Morgan, when I actually was

36:26

with the high school team, we would do in

36:28

house tournaments and there

36:32

was kids that probably had no business fishing

36:34

a tournament at all. They

36:38

just weren't to that level yet. And

36:40

so had you're

36:42

trying to get dads that's never fished before,

36:45

never been in a boat to be your boat captain. Our

36:48

second high school tournament boat

36:51

captain fell out, and

36:54

so one of the dads told

36:56

me he could boat captain, so I let him take

36:58

my boat. My

37:00

lower unit went out that day because

37:04

he tried to take off and fish all day

37:06

with the motor trim dup. He didn't know

37:08

the trim now and he had the kids laying on the front of the boat

37:10

and he was doing this right here, and he hits away.

37:12

My lower unit goes out know any better. So

37:15

it's a safety issue

37:18

when you've got people that don't have the

37:20

experience on the water and you get that many

37:22

boats. And when I heard you say that the other day,

37:24

I thought, oh my gosh, that is

37:27

the best thing that could possibly happen.

37:28

But here's the other thing, Like, no kid wants to go out

37:30

there and get their breakes beaten off every

37:33

single time that they're on the water. Like

37:35

it's there

37:38

is a level in learning

37:40

through losing. And that's

37:43

something that's gone away in the

37:45

generation that a lot of people have out

37:47

there right now, is it's okay for a kid

37:49

to lose. Like, look at what you were just

37:51

saying about Lake and about Fisher, is they

37:54

go out they don't win. People are like, what's wrong,

37:56

Well happened, Well, you just didn't have the

37:58

best day. They still finished tenth,

38:00

or they finished fifth, or they even finished

38:02

in the top fifty. It's just

38:05

it's a long game. And I you

38:07

know when you were talking about how Lake had to go to different

38:09

places and learn different lakes.

38:11

I know, guys that competed in the opens last year

38:14

made the bass Master Elites where people

38:16

would go up to them and go, ay, you're

38:18

only good on this one lake, and then

38:20

they go to this other lake they get good there and

38:22

they'd be like, ah, you're only good on lakes with this type

38:24

of bait. And then they're like, Okay,

38:26

they proved themselves. And what's beautiful about

38:29

is it shuts the people up.

38:31

They have listened. I took Lake

38:34

and Fishers to Harris Chain, Florida

38:36

together because we wanted them

38:38

to fish together. I

38:42

fuss and complain

38:44

all the time with the kids. You always fuss and stuff.

38:47

I've had them in the boat twice and

38:50

you don't say a word. You

38:52

don't, you don't. You don't tell them where to go, You

38:55

don't say a word. They know where, they know where they're going,

38:57

they know what they're doing, and they know During

39:00

the tournament. Ryan took them at Gunsville.

39:02

I took them to Florida. At Florida,

39:05

they should have had the biggest high school

39:07

bag ever. They had a really bad day losing

39:10

them. But they finished fourth in

39:12

this big tournament hairs Chained

39:14

with half a day practice.

39:17

It was the most proud I had ever been

39:19

of them. Too. Now, Fishers weren't done

39:21

a lot now and like's one lot of stuff

39:23

too, but they finished fourth

39:26

in that tournament. And dude,

39:28

me and Ryan were so happy. That was so incredible

39:31

because you practice for three hours

39:33

and you come tow here against all these local people

39:36

and people all across the country and you did

39:38

this. Well, then they go to Gunnersville. I

39:40

think they were like fourteen fifteen. We

39:42

did that, and they go to Gunnersville

39:44

and they were in a bass Master Open

39:47

or an MLF something. There's

39:49

a couple of hundred boats. But

39:51

they got a top five again, and

39:54

me and Ryan talked about how awesome

39:57

it was to boat captain with them

39:59

too, because it's fun

40:01

when when you got a fourteen and

40:03

fifteen year old making

40:06

those decisions that like professional

40:09

anglers are making, you're

40:12

going, oh my gosh, and you just shut up.

40:14

You don't you don't say anything, and you're listening

40:17

to them.

40:18

You know, think there's competition between the two of them.

40:20

I think there is now oh yeah, now, oh

40:23

gosh, listen. That's why they only

40:25

fish two tournaments to get it.

40:26

But that's the point. The point is in

40:28

high school you're trying to develop not only

40:30

your style. You know, your your

40:32

boys have Lake has the

40:34

confidence, fisher has the confidence that's

40:37

instilled by you, that's instilled by Ryan.

40:40

But when they go to a place and they're making decisions

40:42

that even you, somebody who is an accomplished fisherman

40:45

in your own right, you're probably sitting there going

40:47

damn. I didn't even I wouldn't even thought

40:49

of that.

40:50

Yeah, I used to with Lake. I

40:52

used to want

40:54

to make my decisions, and

40:56

the bad thing was when mine didn't pan out, it

40:58

was really bad. Oh yeah, And then

41:01

I felt bad because look, I've cost

41:03

him some turn. I cost him the one at Logan Martin

41:06

it was one hundred percent. I

41:08

was the fight of where we were starting,

41:10

at what we were doing, and we he

41:13

said where we wanted to start, we start there. He caught

41:15

three and ten minutes, he had he had what

41:17

he wihed in in ten minutes. And

41:20

he keeps going. He's catching them and we just we

41:22

keep they're not calling, and

41:24

I'm like, dude, we need to leave. He

41:26

turns around and looks at me, and

41:28

he said, an old man once told me you

41:31

don't leave fish to find fish. So

41:35

I just sat back, all right, and I'm

41:38

like, hey, dude, we gotta go. We got and I made him

41:40

leave and it was a bad decision. And

41:43

so yeah, they they

41:46

have a totally different mindset because

41:48

they've learned things with Livescope and

41:50

we're setting our ways and

41:53

they have their own idea. Look, I didn't fish

41:55

with Lake for a year. I probably didn't

41:57

fish with Lake five times

41:59

he went he wouldn't let me get.

42:01

But our hope with any one of these

42:03

kids is that they'll become the age that

42:05

we are. And for some guys that get

42:07

set in their ways, the hope is

42:10

they won't be like that. They're always good. They'll get

42:12

set in there with they will they'll

42:14

be the same age that we are when they are, and they'll

42:16

be like, well, are these new lot of kids. I

42:18

mean, we haven't even touched

42:20

on this, but I'll be really

42:22

impressed. And I don't think anything

42:25

is not going

42:27

to have it. I believe this will happen for sure.

42:30

I can't wait to see what the forward facing

42:33

sonar is going to be in fifteen years.

42:35

Oh my gosh, wait till you say

42:37

what it's going to be Monday.

42:38

That's my point. My point is the stuff

42:41

that's rolling out I.

42:42

Think is coming out Monday. I don't know what day

42:44

it's coming out.

42:44

But twelve nine.

42:46

So yeah.

42:48

But that's my point is, Like everybody

42:51

can argue, oh I don't like ford facing sonar, Just

42:53

wait, Like technology slows

42:56

down for no one, So

42:59

guys either need to start understanding

43:01

it and get into it, because I'll tell you what, it's a lot

43:03

easier to understand it now than it might

43:06

be if you're trying to get into it ten years from now.

43:08

And you take I still think that it's going to

43:10

come back. The fishing knowledge is going to help you more.

43:12

But if you have that fishing knowledge plus

43:15

the forward facings on our technology,

43:18

and Fisher is a prime example, I

43:22

cannot stand and I and I defend

43:24

him. Oh, I can't stand it

43:26

when people talk about Fisher just being

43:29

a lifecover, okay, because

43:31

I know how he catches his fish. Every time

43:33

he catches one, right, if he has a tournament.

43:36

We talked, I talked to Ryan. I know how he

43:38

caught him. I know those decisions he's making, and

43:42

the dud the dude would still catch

43:45

him, and so would Trey McKinney,

43:48

So would all these guys.

43:49

Now, Oh, the most impressive thing that Trey

43:51

did was I think it was Lake Fork, Yeah,

43:53

where he chased down that one that stole his jerk bake

43:56

and he caught it and got his jerk bake back. Like

43:58

if you can't realize is that proficiency

44:01

with the technology matters over

44:03

any bait that you throw exactly

44:06

because for him to be able to go, no, that's the

44:08

fish, that's the fish follow it sees

44:10

the body do something. It's set

44:12

with three sets of trouble hooks in its

44:14

body, and he's like, it'll still eat

44:17

this and he gets it back. That to me

44:19

was like, Okay, this guy's legit.

44:21

Yeah, and I won't be

44:23

the first fit.

44:24

He made some bonehead moves while he was on the

44:26

first.

44:27

Year and he would not have dominated

44:29

without four faces correct, I mean the.

44:31

First But he's still a

44:33

good fisherman.

44:33

The problem is all of

44:36

y'all have it, so it's

44:39

it's allowed, and so he's

44:42

making the most of it. And

44:45

most of these guys that are arguing about it, they had it

44:47

before everybody else and

44:49

you could have learned it. And so I

44:52

did a video after he won l Ford

44:55

about because people were bashing in

44:57

livescob stop

44:59

taking, stop diminishing

45:01

their credibility, give them

45:03

credit for what they've done. Until

45:07

there's no forward face of sonar, we can't say

45:09

that they wouldn't catch them without it because we don't

45:11

know well.

45:12

And for guys to say well, Ford facing sonar

45:14

just shows that we're catching fish that haven't been caught

45:18

that. I don't think that's true. I think

45:20

every fish that's in a body of water has been caught at least

45:22

once in its life because they start out shallow

45:25

and then they'll move around. But if

45:27

you're watching how they move, those

45:29

guys still have to beat the bank every once in a while,

45:31

and they do and they still catch them. I

45:33

mean, I watched Jordan Lee sit

45:36

there and go, I got a couple

45:38

on scope right here, but I think there's

45:40

one over here, throws a chatterbait over boom sets

45:42

up. I've also watched Brandon Palina go I'm

45:44

not using ford facing sonar, but then you see him

45:47

throw a crank bait and he immediately looks down at the screen

45:50

and catches one, so it's like it's there.

45:52

I don't like the sanctimonious stuff where,

45:55

oh, I don't use this, it's there, You're

45:57

gonna use it, especially as clear

45:59

and as good as it is. How

46:01

can you not look at it yet?

46:03

And it you brought up Jordan I

46:05

don't like to brag on him.

46:07

But well, he's a two time bass Master

46:09

Classic winner. I know

46:12

that speaks for itself.

46:13

I can go on and on about stories of things

46:15

he's done. But Jordan thinks

46:17

differently. Jordan has lorance, which

46:19

let's let's be honest, it's not as good as garment.

46:22

No, and him and Lake

46:24

went, we did a YouTube thing

46:26

and then flipping one day, and then they were gonna

46:28

go scope it. And Lake got up there on

46:31

the troil mar and goes, this is garbage. I

46:33

don't know how scope it is. Well,

46:36

Jordan came out two weeks ago. I

46:38

called him, told him, dude, we didn't you know, we don't call

46:40

twenty eight pounds. You need

46:42

to come over here as crazy. He gets over there at lunch.

46:45

By two thirty he's got thirty two pounds. And

46:49

Jordan is just different. And

46:52

I could tell you stories of things he's done.

46:54

And people say, well, what makes Jordan Lee so good?

46:57

Dude? He

47:00

he don't even know. And

47:03

this is this is true stories. Okay,

47:05

we're flipping on wheeler, we're

47:08

catching them. We go

47:10

leave and we're going to this other place we're

47:13

going. He goes, did you say that bird?

47:16

I said, yeah, what about it? It's over there,

47:19

it's over by a bush. I didn't know there was a bush

47:21

there. I'm gonna go fish by that bird. True

47:23

story. He goes over

47:26

there and there's like three bushes and he flips and catches

47:28

a six pounder. Years

47:31

ago, Jordan was young. He may

47:33

up in eighteen. He was fishing

47:36

either a ABA weekend series. There's a multi

47:38

day tournament. Jordan has

47:40

my shell beds at the time. He knew

47:42

exactly where I was catching twenty twenty

47:44

five pounds a day. He had this tournament

47:47

one on he had to just go there and catch them.

47:49

Day one, they call his boat number and

47:52

he puts his trolling mother dad and

47:54

goes throwing a papar around the red rap. I'm

47:57

sitting over there watching. I'm furious.

48:00

Yeah, why aren't you on the shelf?

48:01

So Lee. Anyway, he comes

48:03

in. He's leading the tournament. He's got twenty and a half

48:05

twenty one pounds. I said,

48:08

if you wouldn't have wasted time with that popar,

48:11

I said, you probably would add twenty five. He goes,

48:13

oh, I never cracked my motor today. I

48:16

said, what. He

48:19

goes to use the bathroom that morning, WILLI

48:21

fly lands on his chests. Another

48:24

one lands on his chest. He goes, hmmm,

48:27

I might just stop through a Popar, for I go

48:29

anywhere he catches twenty one

48:32

pounds right there by

48:34

Ingles Harbor on Popar. Never

48:37

went to the show beds, never.

48:39

Had to multi day tournament. Did he go on day

48:41

two?

48:42

Didn't go on day two? But

48:44

you know where? You know what? You know what else he didn't do?

48:47

He do you ever went to where he caught the twenty one

48:49

pounds?

48:50

He went to a whole new place, went too.

48:53

You know what, Them barge ties

48:55

get a lot of wheel flies on them. I think I'm

48:57

gonna throw them barge ties first.

48:59

But he's started fishing when he was like sex

49:02

right he.

49:03

Was, he was a little bit older. His dad didn't

49:05

fish. And and this is

49:07

something people don't know about Jordan Lee. Katoma

49:10

was you know, a mile thro the woods from

49:13

his house. He would drag

49:15

that aluminum boat through the woods

49:18

to Katoma and drag it back

49:20

home. And Jordan Lee, Jordan

49:22

Lee don't weigh nothing. You know, he was

49:24

probably ninety pounds at most, but

49:28

he was all about it.

49:31

But it's become second nature for him. That's what I'm

49:33

saying in you early on and.

49:35

A lot of people think they love fishing. You

49:39

gotta you gotta really love it. If you want

49:41

to do it for a living. Look, I do it. I

49:44

I can go fishing every day if I want to, And

49:46

in some days I'm just like that, I don't want to go.

49:49

And you know, Jordan is one of them

49:51

that he eat, sleeps, freeze it. I

49:53

don't go fishing without him

49:55

calling me and want to know every single

49:58

detail. He's not one I want to

50:00

know to know a place to go because quite

50:02

frankly, he's never going to go to that place. He's

50:05

going to duplicate.

50:06

It, and yeah, what's happening on the least.

50:08

It makes me mad when we go man, because

50:11

you know I'll be on him somewhere and say hey, let's go

50:13

do this, and then he wants to go do something totally

50:16

different when we get there, and we always catch them.

50:19

Always we

50:21

fished. The best story is I

50:24

had won like six

50:26

tournaments in a row, catching twenty

50:29

five twenty six out

50:31

off shore pre spawn. Jordan's

50:34

coming to fish this tournament with me. He shows up

50:37

in his boat and he gets

50:39

there and we're idling out and he goes, well, are you going to

50:41

do to day? I said, if I'm

50:43

going to do the same thing, I've been doing for a month. He goes,

50:46

well, it rain, not four last. Let's go

50:48

fish some drains. I want to go fish

50:50

some places you ain't been in ten years, I

50:53

said, Jordan. By

50:55

nine o'clock, we're going

50:57

to catch twenty five pounds. He said, well, just take

50:59

me just drains, lick on fishy seaholes.

51:03

We pull up to the first

51:06

just pipe and he

51:08

flips in there and he catches three and a half pounders,

51:11

puts it in the bottom boat. I go to put it in the live

51:13

well. Takes me fifteen minutes

51:15

to clean the live well out because he was fishing in my left

51:17

sad and usually live wells. He has had zim cans,

51:20

spit bottles, water bottles, sandw

51:25

trash can. Yeah. So I get it done

51:27

and he's done, flipped another one. In long story

51:29

short, we went and fish places I had not been

51:31

some of them in twenty years. And we

51:34

caught twenty six or twenty seven pounds

51:36

that day, just fishing

51:38

off the wall stuff. And we pulled up to this one

51:41

drain and it goes to these

51:44

golf course ponds. And I had

51:46

told him about it before. He said, where's

51:48

that pipe at? You said, when the water comes up,

51:51

the fish go in, eat and brim in the

51:53

golf course pond I told him. I said, well, I don't

51:55

know if we can get in there. Hey man, we

51:58

wheel a tree Lian. It took us forever. We

52:00

get in there, I said, Jordan, they don't buy nothing

52:02

but a crank bait. I've never caught him on anything. Of

52:05

course, Jordan, he's gonna pick up a jig. So

52:08

I throw crank bait in there. I'm not getting bed.

52:10

He throws there, not here. Here,

52:15

He throws here and catches a six four. Right,

52:17

okay, well this is the one fish hole, Jordan.

52:20

You're only gonna catch one. We might as well leave. He goes,

52:22

let me throw again. He throws

52:24

again and catches a five eight. So

52:26

we fish it. We don't catch nothing. All right, let's

52:28

go. We're going out. And he goes,

52:31

you don't ever flip that grass, I

52:34

said, Jordan is ten inches deep, and

52:36

now we're throwing out. He goes,

52:38

let me flip it. Back me up. I

52:41

back him up. He catches a four to eleven, and

52:45

I'm and I

52:47

would have never flipped that crass.

52:48

But that's a confidence thing, like

52:51

he knows he is. He spends so much

52:53

time on the water, it's second nature for him.

52:55

That's a confidence thing.

52:56

He's When people argue

52:58

about who's the best in the world, you can't argue

53:00

against Jacob Wheeler. Jake, I

53:02

don't care what people say about Jacob Wheeler.

53:05

Jacob Wheeler. When people ask why

53:07

is Jacob Whider so good, I'm gonna tell you. He's

53:10

a top five scoper, He's

53:12

a top five offshore guy. He's a

53:14

top five scanner, he is

53:16

a top five flipper, and

53:20

he's number one preparation

53:23

tournament preparation. He is obsessed

53:27

with tournament preparation. And

53:30

I heard a guy tell me a story about talking to Jacob

53:33

Whitler on his way to Toledo Ben and

53:35

he said, Yeah, I'm just

53:37

gonna jump out to a lead on day one and

53:39

day two and just kind of cruise the rest of time to

53:41

championship ran on

53:44

the way down there. Just

53:48

the dude's incredible.

53:49

But Jordan, you will

53:51

never be able to replace confidence. And that's why

53:53

when you were talking about Lake and you were

53:55

like, I screwed him up on a tournament because you wanted

53:57

to start here. His confidence wasn't in that

54:00

here's dad, and he's gonna, you know, he's gonna

54:02

listen to what you say. He's gonna take it under advisement.

54:05

But you got to go with somebody's confidence. And

54:07

that's why when everybody knocks scopers, that's

54:10

a confidence thing. And you've got to

54:12

have some crazy confidence

54:15

to be able to cast blindly at no

54:17

target in the middle of the water, work

54:20

that bait appropriately over top

54:22

of their head, by their head, whatever you got to do to get them

54:24

to bite, because you've got nothing holding them.

54:27

And it's these scopers the

54:29

way Jordan Lee is about everything. These

54:32

scopers are about scoping.

54:34

And I watched I've been in the boat with JT.

54:37

Tompkins, I've been in the boat with Logan Parks.

54:39

Those are two great scopers. And to

54:41

watch the things

54:44

they do is just and they

54:46

don't even look where they're throwing, and still the bait lands

54:48

right on the fish, you know, and

54:51

it's it's.

54:52

This year in the Elites is going to be by

54:55

far one of the most interesting seasons

54:57

I think professional fishing's ever seen.

55:00

I'm gonna go ahead and predict that

55:03

Tucker Smith finishes

55:06

in the top five, and.

55:09

That's good prediction. But if

55:11

you look at that schedule, a lot of guys say,

55:13

ah, this schedule doesn't set up well for scoping

55:15

and all that kind of stuff. It will

55:17

guys have ways where they can find what

55:19

they're looking for when they do it.

55:21

Tucker Smith is I'm not gonna say

55:23

he's technically I'm not gonna say he's the next Jordan

55:25

Lee or anything like that. But we're

55:28

talking about a kid that won three

55:30

straight national championships in high school.

55:32

You can say, let's high school. It

55:35

was also at a different lake in

55:37

a different state. The dude,

55:39

we're talking about four hundred boats. The guy won

55:41

three in a row. Okay,

55:43

he did that with different partners with

55:46

Hayden, but then he goes

55:48

and wins a million dollars with Logan in

55:50

the Bass Pro shops.

55:52

Which is where his name really blew up.

55:54

And and the stuff that happened with Joe

55:57

Durham down there, you fall, Hey, that

56:00

gave him bad, messed him up, and he was

56:02

still in school. I think he probably

56:04

would have done well had he had he I think he

56:06

would have qualified that year had he fished all of them.

56:10

But he handled it the right way as far

56:12

as as far as a pr side, and.

56:14

Tucker's gotten a lot of heat from a lot

56:16

of things that just aren't true.

56:19

But that's jealousy regardless.

56:21

Of it being Tuckers.

56:24

If something's true, I'm gonna you're

56:26

probably gonna find out about it on my page,

56:29

no matter who you are. But I

56:32

just couldn't never find anything in the same things

56:34

been with Trey mckenne man. I get all

56:37

of these things about Trey McKenny and I've yet

56:39

to been able to say, Okay, Trey mckennie

56:41

did this, and he's

56:43

not a good.

56:44

Person, traded some stupid stuff

56:46

like you know, not watching the videos before

56:48

you're going out for a tournament and then running

56:51

through it, Like I understand,

56:53

he's nineteen years old. He's still trying

56:55

to figure out what he's doing. And yeah,

56:57

while you're a professional and there is a etiquette

57:00

to being a professional bass fisherman that

57:02

is always perceived, he's still

57:05

nineteen years old, you know, just like any of these

57:07

new guys that are coming up, they're still young. But

57:09

that actually makes the sport interesting

57:12

absolutely is when you have something like

57:14

that happen, you go, oh damn,

57:16

somebody actually did something wrong and

57:19

this could impact what happens.

57:20

Yeah, the whole answer in his mama

57:23

was bad. But the no

57:25

egg zone, I'll tell you why that one really

57:27

pissed me off. The

57:30

night before I was

57:32

on the phone with him and JT and

57:35

Tyler Williams, and I said, put

57:37

me on a speakerphone. I want to talk to everybody. And

57:39

I had the same conversation with Logan. I

57:42

said, listen, they're looking

57:44

for any way that you can miss it. I

57:47

said, y'all need

57:49

to go watch that rules meeting three times,

57:53

and after you watch it the third time, I want

57:55

you to watch it six more times. And

57:58

they said, well, we know the rule. I said, the rules

58:00

are different on every lake. I said, you need to know

58:02

every detail. I said, promise me

58:05

that y'all do that. Okay, we'll do that. Well,

58:07

then when Trey ran at no way up, I

58:10

didn't even call say I told you so. I think I called

58:13

cussins what I did well, And.

58:14

You guys got to remember there's local rules and then

58:16

there's bast rules.

58:18

Yeah, and then the

58:20

phone call and

58:24

that cost him. Man that

58:27

you could argue that that was a million dollar

58:29

phone call. Yeah, you

58:32

know, anger of the Year and what that does for

58:34

you with perception and rookie his

58:37

mother. When I came up to him and

58:39

told him what had happened and explained

58:41

to him what was about to happen. I

58:44

had went to him and told him, you need to go sign

58:47

the back of paper and say you broke a rule. He goes, what were you talking

58:49

about? I said, did you answer

58:51

your phone call from your mother on the water? He said

58:53

yeah. I said you're going to get disqualified,

58:55

and he turned as white as that desk and

58:57

I said you are. And

59:00

his mother started crying and

59:02

she started apologizing. I said, whoa,

59:04

this ain't your fault, This

59:06

is not your fault.

59:07

Yeah, he's responsible for what his actions

59:09

are.

59:10

And I even told her, you know, she and I had

59:12

a very heated conversation after

59:14

that, and

59:17

I was very blunt. I

59:19

said, you're hurting in morning. Help

59:21

him. I'd want to be there for my kid too.

59:23

Listen, I'd be the helicopter dad.

59:26

I could do as I say, not as I do, because

59:28

I'd probably be doing it. But you're

59:32

not letting him be an adult and

59:34

be a man. If you're going to fish in a

59:36

professional organization, and

59:39

right now you're the best in that organization,

59:41

because you're leading the points. You

59:43

gotta be a man and mama's

59:47

got to quit. Hold in the hand.

59:48

It's one of my favorite phrases. If

59:50

you're going to do anything in life, fail forward

59:52

fast, like make your mistakes, realize

59:55

you made them, and get through them. It would be interesting

59:57

to see how he battles back in his sophomore

59:59

year at baths but Slick Johnson.

1:00:01

Make sure you follow him on TikTok, Instagram and everywhere.

1:00:03

Thank you, Bubba, Yes, Sir

1:00:06

H