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and if you pay off devices early. Ctmobile.com I

1:02

remember so vividly being on a

1:04

couch in a basement of these people

1:06

I did not know and me

1:08

and Tom Cruise looking at each other

1:10

going, they might come down and

1:12

kill us tonight. not

1:18

know Hey,

1:26

everybody. Welcome to Literally.

1:30

the great Francis Ford Coppola is

1:32

with us today. I

1:35

don't think I need to give any introduction. I

1:38

mean, if you don't know who Coppola is and you're

1:40

listening to me, I can't believe that. Um

1:44

I have not spoken

1:46

to Francis. in any real

1:49

depth. probably

1:52

ever On

1:54

outsiders. I was 17. What am I going say to

1:57

the great man? And

1:59

then, you know, know, life has taken us

2:01

in different directions. So much

2:03

to talk about. And it's an

2:05

honor that he reached out

2:07

and wanted to be on the

2:09

show to talk about Megalopolis,

2:11

which is one of his life's

2:13

work. This

2:16

is going to be amazing. Francis

2:18

Ford Coppola, next. You

2:27

know, it's amazing. hardly look. I

2:29

know you must be many years

2:31

older than you were when you

2:33

were a kid, but you don't

2:35

look a lot different. You stayed

2:37

trim and you've got the same

2:39

smile. How nice. Francis, I'm so

2:41

glad to see you and to

2:43

talk to you. I mean, you've

2:45

meant so much to me and

2:47

I feel like it's been somewhat,

2:49

it has been so many years

2:51

since we've had an opportunity to

2:53

talk. So thank you for coming

2:55

on. And I just, my heart

2:57

is full to see you and

2:59

see how great you look and

3:01

that you're still killing it. Well,

3:03

you're very kind and then you

3:05

too. So we're survivors. I saw

3:07

Megalopolis last night and I have

3:09

so much I want to pack.

3:11

First of all, I love that

3:13

you finally were able to make

3:15

a movie that you have been

3:17

taught. I remember you talking about

3:19

it on outsiders. Really? I didn't

3:21

know that I had yet formulated

3:23

that opinion. It was just an

3:25

idea. mean, it was, it was

3:27

just a sort of sense of,

3:29

I remember hearing the title. That's

3:31

what I remember, that you have

3:33

put your own money into it

3:35

and you've made a movie and

3:37

like anything I have ever seen

3:39

with some of my favorite actors

3:41

ever. Is it

3:44

everything that you had hoped

3:46

it would be? In truth,

3:48

it's beyond what I hope

3:50

because the actors are such

3:52

a wonderful cast and as

3:54

you know, movies are a

3:56

collaboration between all the elements,

3:58

but mainly the actors. You

4:00

you know, I've always felt that

4:02

that. and I've said it. You

4:05

know a director doesn't get a

4:07

great performance out of an actor the

4:09

director He's like a

4:11

coach, he helps, he says. He

4:13

sets the scene, sets the

4:15

situation, he might You might

4:17

have a good thing to say

4:19

now and now, and then when

4:21

there's a problem, but the actor

4:23

does it, let's face it. And

4:26

And the great performances given throughout

4:28

the history of cinema have been

4:30

done by great. great

4:32

actors and you know very

4:34

often the highest statistics of

4:36

who becomes directors. is more than

4:38

assistant directors, more than writers,

4:40

more than any other personnel,

4:42

actors. I'll make

4:44

up the lion's share of those artists

4:46

who go on to make. films,

4:49

in the silent era.

4:52

Most of the silent

4:54

geniuses In that era,

4:56

were actors. who

4:58

were magicians, actors or magicians.

5:00

But an actor is kind of

5:02

a magician when you think what

5:04

they're able to do. Obviously made

5:06

the movie and wrote it way

5:08

before. the emergence of somebody

5:11

like Elon Musk. But I

5:13

definitely was thinking

5:15

about an Elon Musk type

5:17

character watching Adam Driver's character. I

5:20

think that's a certainty.

5:22

Yes, I read Walter

5:24

Isaacson's wonderful book on

5:26

Elon Musk. Elon Musk

5:28

is basically a very

5:30

unusual person, but he's

5:32

a genius. in no,

5:34

direction. his goals, People

5:36

don't understand his goals, but but

5:38

the Walter Isaacson book explains his

5:41

goal. He really he Believe it

5:43

or not. He wants humanity to

5:45

survive He doesn't want an asteroid

5:47

to be able to come around

5:49

and just wipe it out He

5:52

wants to get people out there

5:54

in the universe so that humanity will

5:56

survive under any scenario, and

5:58

I think even his is

6:00

present political. stances, is

6:02

he's trying to do what he

6:04

can to have no regulations, right? You

6:07

know he doesn't want any regulations because

6:09

he's His passion to get

6:11

us into Mars is so real. And

6:14

he does it for good reason.

6:16

He does it because he loves humanity,

6:18

I think. mean, maybe I'm wrong,

6:20

who knows. I've never met the guy,

6:22

but I do think, based on

6:24

the Isabson book, that he's quite a

6:27

genius. And after all, who is

6:29

really? the figure going

6:31

back in more ancient times. but

6:34

Prometheus himself, Prometheus

6:36

the titan of

6:38

Greek of Greek mythology who

6:40

stole fire and gave it to

6:43

man so that mankind could

6:45

have the arts. Prometheus

6:47

is a prototype for... for

6:50

even our Christian belief. Why

6:52

did Prometheus was chained.

6:55

on a mountain and with

6:57

an eagle picking at his

6:59

liver, suffering for humanity. Where have

7:01

you heard that? see

7:04

that someone must suffer

7:06

for us in order to

7:08

us to be realized.

7:10

So yes, our mythology is

7:12

filled with Prometheus, Christ.

7:15

Uh, these present

7:17

geniuses, Archimedes. and

7:20

Elon Musk, it's a strange evolution

7:22

of myth. Galileo, they wanted to

7:24

burn him at the stake, I

7:27

believe. Everyone who comes up with

7:29

a new idea, it makes everyone

7:31

very uncomfortable at the come up

7:33

with a, know, it's one

7:35

thing with comes of little art film,

7:37

like I made Rumblefish because I wanted

7:39

to make an art film for kids.

7:41

The kids at the time didn't really

7:43

respond to it was a flop. And

7:45

I actually lost ownership of that movie

7:47

because my deal always was that if

7:50

it didn't earn back what it costs,

7:52

whoever put the money up got it.

7:54

So I don't own Rumblefish. But Over

7:56

time, I've met so

7:58

many wonderful filmmakers who told

8:00

me, you know, the reason I

8:02

make movies is because I saw

8:05

saw a rumble that makes me, I

8:07

can't be more happy to have, have.

8:09

That's, that's the big award. It's

8:11

not a a statuette It's not a

8:13

statuette they give you person comes and person

8:15

comes and says they make films

8:17

saw something they saw of yours to.

8:19

I them want to. always I

8:21

remember asked me always obviously and me

8:23

about outsiders I one of the things

8:25

to to impart to them but they

8:27

just don't believe believe was Rumblefish

8:30

was the cool movie to be in. to

8:32

be was the movie. the movie. All of

8:34

of us, we loved being in an but

8:36

we were like, wait a minute, like, wait a

8:38

it's gonna be in black and white. It's

8:40

gonna, it's it's such a visually stunning. gonna, and

8:42

it's such a of stunning

8:45

movie. in it at the height Mickey is

8:47

in it at the his powers. And

8:49

I I even back

8:51

in in the casting session. that how you

8:53

were a fan you were a

8:55

fan of and you and you

8:57

finally got him in the

8:59

movie. movie. That of of as you

9:01

remember, was interesting interesting because the

9:03

kids kids in front of

9:05

each other. of each other and could

9:07

have been been, you nightmare with with

9:09

wait a second, that guy is

9:11

good. I'm not is good, I'm not

9:14

gonna, but, you but you all

9:16

young young. who loved acting and

9:18

you applauded each other, even

9:20

your competition. It was wonderful.

9:22

It was a I'll never forget

9:24

how how positive those casting sessions

9:26

were and how supportive

9:29

you were up with your

9:31

own competition. Francis, I

9:33

remember all of us. of us,

9:35

we we would help each other each other do

9:37

each hair. hair and then the Zotro bathroom.

9:39

We We would be like, oh, I don't I don't

9:41

like that. Let Let me me this looks better

9:43

on you. And let me do that. So

9:45

we literally did our own. literally did our own

9:47

terms of supporting each other. of supporting each

9:49

other. know if you don't this, but

9:51

I remember that I remember that we gave

9:54

the greaseers less per they

9:56

had a had nucromier

9:58

transportation accommodations than the... that

10:00

the socials got

10:02

nice. hotels and stuff like that.

10:04

But the Greciers had a live in

10:06

a basement. rooms that

10:08

we found. And you

10:10

we used to do Tai Chi

10:12

in the morning. I have two

10:14

thoughts. One is, here are my

10:17

thoughts, because it's so interesting this

10:19

perspective. perspective is I'm 17 years

10:21

old. I barely know anything about

10:23

anything. You know everything about

10:25

everything. And I go, Okay,

10:27

so. where Francis is trying

10:29

to set up this dynamic. where

10:31

the are

10:33

these downtrodden, struggling, and meanwhile,

10:35

every actor who's playing

10:37

a soche, who's got more per

10:40

diem, all they really want to do is be

10:42

a Greeceer. All right. That

10:44

is true. But you know, there's

10:47

a lot I didn't understand which

10:49

is why there's two versions and

10:51

and you know, I I really

10:53

went and one of brothers

10:56

agreed that the version that

10:58

is the version of the outsiders

11:00

is the one that's called the

11:02

complete novel because I really, you

11:04

know, I tell I

11:06

was offered write the

11:08

script when I was young of

11:10

midnight cowboy. And I turned

11:12

it down because I just didn't

11:14

understand enough of what a

11:18

guy who goes to be a male

11:20

hustler in New York really was.

11:22

I didn't, I I had no frame

11:24

of reference. And

11:27

in a lot of the scenes

11:29

that Soda Pop was in. uh...

11:32

he's in bed with his brother And

11:34

there was a sort of, you

11:36

know, a homoerotic aspect to

11:38

it, which is, which, you know,

11:41

they're now saying about Abraham

11:44

Lincoln, which is, which

11:46

is but But I,

11:48

didn't have a frame of reference And all.

11:50

I was frightened at one point

11:53

that that was going to come

11:55

across. to hurt the picture, so I took

11:57

it out. But when I

11:59

when I went to my little granddaughter's

12:01

class shortly after that to talk

12:04

about the outside. They said, well,

12:06

where's the scene where SodaPops talks

12:08

about being in love with his

12:10

brother? When they knew the book

12:12

better than I, and I said,

12:14

I was wrong. And I made

12:16

a new version and even put

12:18

in a lot of early Elvis

12:21

Presley. And I'm sure you've seen

12:23

both versions. But the official version

12:25

of the outsiders is. is the

12:27

one that has the longer, has

12:29

everything in the book in it

12:31

because the book was right and

12:33

I was wrong. I've always wondered

12:35

obviously what happened. My notion was

12:38

that the, because the original outsiders

12:40

was focused very much on the

12:42

boys on the run with Dallas.

12:44

Like it actually begins meeting Dallas.

12:46

He's the first person you meet.

12:48

And in the book, the first

12:50

person you meet, the first person

12:53

you meet. and it was very

12:55

a Curtis Brothers centric, so I'm

12:57

super glad that the new cut

12:59

is out. No, it was, as

13:01

I explained, I went, little G.F.

13:03

Coppola, who now is a big

13:05

movie director, as her latest film,

13:07

The Last Showgirl. Yes, for her.

13:10

She was a little kid. I

13:12

went to the scenes that... weren't

13:14

in the movie and I realized

13:16

that I so I made a

13:18

version that was according to what

13:20

those little kids that I went

13:22

back and showed it to them

13:24

and then they were having. I

13:27

also changed some of the music.

13:29

I had my father doing a

13:31

lot of the music and he

13:33

wanted to raise the tracks for

13:35

everything and I had the difficulty

13:37

of saying well but then those

13:39

because he wanted the whole score

13:42

to sound like God with the

13:44

win. Yes. You know, da, da,

13:46

da, da, da, da. Sure. Yeah,

13:48

yeah. But, but I see, will

13:50

they be listening to Elvis Presley?

13:52

Olds songs and

13:54

so I did

13:56

that and I

13:59

put that in

14:01

the new version

14:03

I had the

14:05

rights to do the

14:07

Elvis Presley song. I just

14:09

think the movie is much

14:11

better in the complete novel

14:13

format. Warner brothers that's the

14:15

official version. I

14:18

remember that

14:20

you played Elvis's

14:22

on the set for us every

14:25

time we shot. interestingly, it wasn't It

14:27

wasn't multiple Elvis songs. was the same Oh, I

14:30

don't know if you remember, it was the same

14:32

Elvis song. Always. It wasn't like one day

14:34

you got this song and one day you got that song, it

14:36

was all of us. It was only I want

14:38

you I need you, love you. Oh, really. I

14:40

don't remember but I remember. You

14:44

know, that that I remember the Well,

14:46

you know who was on that shoot?

14:49

if was a little kid there, she

14:51

was a young girl. Remember Dana Spiota

14:53

Of course. You know what happened to

14:55

her? No. She became a major novelist,

14:57

if you look her up. She's,

14:59

uh, she's a best

15:01

-selling novelist of serious

15:03

proportion. She's very respected.

15:06

She was like a

15:08

little. 13 old kid hanging

15:10

around with all the boys and

15:12

lovely kid, wonderful kid, but she

15:14

became a great writer. Talking

15:24

Pictures, the podcast from TCM and

15:26

is back with a new season.

15:29

Hear host Ben Mankiewicz in intimate conversations

15:31

with the people who live to

15:33

make us laugh. Carol Burnett, Bill Murray,

15:35

Paul Scheer, Henry Winkler, and more

15:37

all Ben to talk about the movies

15:39

that made them. Talking pictures

15:41

isn't just about film. It's about the

15:44

powerful role movies play in our lives.

15:46

It's about where you were, who you

15:48

were with, and what you were feeling.

15:50

Listen to talking Pictures on max or

15:52

wherever you get your podcasts. Empowering

15:55

young people across the

15:57

nation through mentorship is crucial.

15:59

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require finance agreement as due. Oh,

16:59

I know about megalopolis. I

17:01

can't believe I forgot this.

17:03

My single favorite thing about

17:05

megalopolis was the mention of

17:07

the dingbat news. That's so

17:09

funny, but you remember that.

17:11

Well, I burst out laughing

17:13

in the theater because that's,

17:15

you know, my... You know

17:17

how... I mean... You're older

17:19

than I am, but even

17:21

at my age, it's like

17:23

people get frozen in time

17:25

at the era where you

17:27

knew them. So for me,

17:29

Sophia is still writing the

17:31

dingbat news every week. How

17:33

did you, where did you

17:35

see that at the studio?

17:37

The movie, where did I

17:39

see it? What I did

17:41

outside is I had lost

17:43

everything. And that, Sophia used

17:45

to do the dingbat moves

17:47

with Bernie Gersten's daughters. who

17:49

will also now become very

17:51

important in the suit. So

17:53

where did you run into

17:55

the thing bad news? The

17:57

ding bad news was.

17:59

is She would do it on

18:01

the, what they used to call the ditto

18:03

machines in the school. in

18:06

the school that we were using

18:08

for rehearsal. Oh, that's right. She

18:10

was there. fact, she's in that

18:12

scene. The Dairy Queen. That's

18:14

a funny scene because little

18:17

girl with buck teeth comes and said,

18:19

okay, you you to dime. We don't

18:21

have enough for a dairy queen. And

18:24

Matt said, get out of here. Then

18:26

he says, that was a close call.

18:30

Yeah. they The thing bad news.

18:32

Yeah, isn't that wonderful? Yeah,

18:34

I look at Sophia now. She's

18:36

she's. uh, she's much

18:38

more famous than I am. She,

18:41

You have the DNA. You,

18:43

That's that Coppola DNA for sure.

18:45

Well, I think it's more

18:47

the way we spent the summers.

18:49

We used to, in the

18:51

all those kids and Jason Schwartzman

18:53

and all of the relatives used

18:55

to come. And and used to

18:58

say, okay, we're going have creativity camp.

19:00

But they said, oh, we don't want creativity

19:02

camp. We want fish and we wanna

19:04

swim. I said, well, you're gonna fish and

19:06

swim, but we're gonna write songs and

19:08

we're gonna do one act plays and we're

19:10

gonna have fun. And it's all right

19:12

if we have to. and that's when

19:14

Sophia directed her first play

19:16

and Jason Schwartzman had to act

19:18

in it. He had written

19:20

the play, you know? So it

19:22

was more of the kids

19:24

than the cousins. It

19:26

was like summer camp every summer. but,

19:29

with their relatives. When you

19:31

talk about having camps at the property, I

19:33

remember during outsiders. That was all

19:36

going on, you had just gone to that terrible

19:38

time where you know, the studio

19:40

was gone and it was so full of

19:42

angst for you, and as a, and

19:44

it's like a 17 -year -old, for it

19:46

to even translate to a 17 -year -old, you

19:48

know it had to have been something. because, you

19:50

know, 17 -year -olds don't know about mortgages. They

19:52

don't know about any of that stuff. but I

19:54

can remember a day where you were

19:56

on the phone with Ellie. and you are

19:58

telling her not to let in. the repossessors. I'll

20:01

never forget it as long

20:03

I'll never forget it as long as I like, no,

20:05

no, just don't just the

20:07

gate. Just just don't action. It

20:10

was was. an amazing thing. You

20:12

know, I remember that here know,

20:14

I remember that Since that

20:16

was true since the biggest state, the

20:18

was the biggest servers, you know, basically

20:20

had a problem know, basically

20:22

had a problem because they had to

20:25

come into a private then go then

20:27

go Normally they just go to your house.

20:29

house. So when a a

20:31

process server came, Ellie would disappear.

20:33

We'd all we'd all disappear

20:36

and the only one who

20:38

would stand up on stand up

20:40

on the gate Sophia at she would

20:42

say, And not allowed to

20:44

come here. Leave immediately. This

20:46

is Tara. immediately. This is was

20:48

so funny. This is

20:50

Tara. This is Tara. You know how you have

20:52

memories that are important to you, but they've

20:54

been so long and you've thought about them

20:57

for so many years that you begin to

20:59

question your own memory them for them. And

21:01

I have, I've always had that. I said,

21:03

I swear to God, Francis was on the

21:05

phone. No, it's true. I was. I've always had

21:07

I mean. I swear to know,

21:09

I would do these crazy things, true. I

21:11

the one who would have the

21:13

grocery store say, I would do these we can't

21:15

give you credit she's You're going to

21:17

have to pay cash if you

21:19

want to buy say, well, Mrs. know, it

21:21

was very embarrassing for her, one thing.

21:24

for condolences, I always loved Ellie.

21:26

She was such a nice woman. I

21:28

I don't know anyone who didn't love

21:30

her. She was such an angel. know

21:32

I was so lucky and so

21:35

smart to. such an angel. I mean,

21:37

I to have, you know, and

21:39

so years, you know, 61 hard to

21:41

hard her, you know, because know,

21:43

was she was by rock. She was

21:45

the one I would check

21:47

with. with and to

21:49

my reality check. I I remember she

21:51

to tell me, tell me, give your brain

21:53

a rest. brain a rest. would say, there,

21:55

I don't know how to. know how to. The

21:57

only way know know how to do it is to.

22:00

Let's start another project. have

22:02

two projects at once, like to do

22:04

that. How do you feel that

22:06

you were the pioneer of video village?

22:08

Video village didn't even have a

22:10

name. No, it didn't, and it's a

22:12

big mistake Oh, I'm so curious

22:14

to know, oh, this is amazing. What

22:16

I was taught by a great

22:18

mind directing teacher was Ms. Dorothy Armson,

22:20

a woman. and a

22:22

wonderful director and a fabulous teacher.

22:25

And she told me, and

22:27

I remember that, always said, At

22:29

the same place next to the camera.

22:32

not only because you have the best

22:34

view of the cast. And

22:36

I do that even with a video up because

22:38

I have the video thing at my feet. but

22:41

she says it's not just so that you

22:43

can see the actors well, it's so

22:45

they can see you because they're doing it

22:47

for you. And if they can't see

22:49

you. they don't how to gauge what

22:52

they're doing. And so whenever I

22:54

see a movie and I hear

22:56

a cut and I hear a direct

22:58

say, that was great, do it

23:00

again, more energy. And I realized that

23:02

he's a mile away in a

23:04

video tent. The

23:06

actor has to always be

23:08

right there so the actors can

23:10

see how they're reacting, because

23:12

they're using you. And I learned

23:15

that from Ms. Arsner. who

23:17

a great woman. Um, so does

23:19

that mean the silverfish has been

23:21

retired to a museum? No, the

23:23

silverfish wasn't, it? There was a,

23:25

you can go into it afterwards

23:27

and edit in there, but you

23:29

can't direct. I never direct from

23:31

there unless I'm mad at. Dennis

23:34

Hopper or Shia LaBeouf. Then I'll say, do

23:36

what you want and I'm not coming out. Amazing.

23:39

which I did to both, which I

23:41

did to both Dennis Hopper and Shia

23:43

but they were great. what they

23:46

did. Literally

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six months. People ask me a

25:26

lot about what it's like to

25:28

work with you and I think

25:31

among your gifts, Francis, when there's

25:33

a happy accident, you know it,

25:35

you know it, you receive it.

25:38

and you use it. Absolutely. And

25:40

it sounds really simple, but you

25:42

would be shocked how many directors,

25:45

if a cat jumped up on

25:47

Marlon Brando's lap in the middle

25:49

of a speech, would cut. If

25:52

a hat blew off of the

25:54

camera operator on a crane shot

25:56

on the outsiders and tumbled down

25:59

the street. and Emilio

26:01

picked it up and said, hey, I got a hat. They

26:03

would laugh and cut and it would never be

26:05

in the movie and both those things are. memorable, happy

26:08

accidents. Another thing I do is

26:10

that if somebody else has

26:12

a great idea. I

26:14

always use it, but I'll tell

26:16

the truth. other words, ask me

26:18

who came up with the line

26:20

in the Godfather, take the gun

26:23

and leave the gun, take the

26:25

gun only. That was what Cicastellano

26:27

said that. I didn't, it wasn't

26:29

my idea. They asked me whose

26:31

idea was it to have the

26:33

helicopters play Wagner, they think as

26:35

my family of musicians that

26:37

was John Millis' idea so

26:39

not only do I use

26:42

everybody else's idea other than

26:44

mine when when, when it seems

26:46

appropriate, but I'll tell you the truth

26:48

is You ask me right now, anything you

26:50

like in any movie. that

26:52

you like and ask me whose idea it

26:54

was and I'll tell you and the answer

26:56

it wasn't mine. I only

26:58

learned years later that our long rehearsal

27:00

period on outsiders at the school. was

27:03

in a large part because

27:05

there was still question

27:07

about the budget. and and

27:09

getting the movie done. I remember

27:12

shooting the entire movie on a green

27:14

screen. it during rehearsal. Did

27:16

you ever look at that

27:18

footage? Is that footage exist? Oh

27:20

yeah, no. I'm the one

27:22

who invented and came up with

27:24

the term pre -visualization. Right. And

27:26

now that's an industry. I

27:29

thought that people didn't like that,

27:31

name they said, well, how can

27:33

there be pre -visualization? There's visualization.

27:35

I said, but this is a

27:37

step before. when you make

27:39

decisions and you have a

27:41

simulation of what the film might

27:44

be like. And we took

27:46

that and I remember. on Rumblefish

27:50

we the whole movie

27:52

on a green screen

27:54

and got Stuart Copeland.

27:56

to come and be a drummer and

27:58

I was on the base in Rumblefish. was

28:00

playing something. And Stuart Copeland said, you

28:02

know, I really love this movie.

28:04

you give me a chance to

28:06

write the score? And I said, Stuart

28:08

And Stuart Copeland wrote of course. That

28:10

was That was his first You

28:12

also had Tom Waits and Outsiders. A movie is a

28:14

a movie is a collaboration.

28:16

was, you know, there are a lot of are

28:18

a lot of art forms that

28:20

you're pretty much alone and you're

28:22

painting a picture or you're sitting

28:24

and and composing. but theater begins as

28:26

a collaboration. There's a, you know, a whole

28:29

bunch of people working on it

28:31

and movies are the child of

28:33

theater. child of theater. you know,

28:35

know, the, the collaborative group

28:37

is very exciting, and that

28:39

is the basis of the art

28:41

form that we now call also

28:43

was sad was sad to see

28:46

that we lost Fred, this this

28:48

year. The cast of The Outsiders

28:50

and American Burfiti is largely largely,

28:52

vision. And Fred loved

28:55

you, I'll tell you that. Oh, thank

28:57

you. yeah, he he was always a

28:59

big supporter of mine. of mine. And I

29:01

I think there should be a. be a, they have They

29:03

have a casting, I think they now have a

29:05

now award. Yeah, they, of course they do. They

29:07

have the course they It should be called the the casting

29:09

I think you're right. course they did. They this is,

29:11

the I know there a lot of people in the

29:13

industry listening. should be You got to call Fred

29:16

Rusa Award. at the list of

29:18

actors. list of actors cast. I

29:20

don't see any. that ever

29:22

came close. close. That's

29:24

true. And and partly

29:26

the reason that incredible

29:28

is he took the most he took the

29:30

most extraordinary notes, they were

29:32

very tiny. He had every actor actor he

29:34

had ever seen, he wrote

29:36

down these notes what what he

29:38

thought. I learned a lot about casting

29:41

learned a lot about can imagine. Have you

29:43

can imagine. The Outsiders you

29:45

seen the Outsiders Yes, yes, have you? I

29:47

have you? I have not yet.

29:50

hear obviously it's clearly great,

29:52

right? you enjoy it? It is wonderful about

29:54

it about it is that the

29:56

director took a in a different

29:58

direction than the movie did. but a

30:00

good direction. And I And I

30:02

went and saw I was so

30:04

admired that the film, the film was there

30:06

as a, but The film was there. book.

30:09

And she went a it's really the book when

30:11

I went a different way and when I

30:13

went to see it. in so show

30:15

that wanted that show hi, to

30:17

say hi. of going instead of going backstage,

30:19

they all came out of the audience and

30:21

I sat with them and did a co and

30:23

them. a co-opo that's amazing. amazing. Yeah. And

30:26

it's a a wonderful show. show. The director

30:28

did a good job. job. you

30:30

should go see it go love to

30:32

see you. you I'll go, love should

30:34

have had them do go, but you should

30:36

You missed your opportunity. do Tai Chi, Francis.

30:38

You you remember? Do you

30:40

remember when somehow all found former who at

30:42

the time the time would have been

30:44

in their 40s or whatever they

30:46

were, they were adults they were and

30:48

divided the cast up. the cast up and

30:51

we all had to go to their houses

30:53

and spend the night. And I remember I vividly.

30:57

being on a couch with a

30:59

furnace. a in a basement. people

31:02

these people, I did not know me and

31:04

Tom Tom at each other going. at each

31:06

other going they They might come

31:08

down and kill us tonight. and kill us

31:10

tonight it mean, the stuff that

31:12

we did, that we was so

31:14

amazing. I mean, I mean

31:17

we played football,

31:19

tackle tackle Tackle! tackle

31:21

the the to toughen us up. us

31:23

up I'll never forget. never forget

31:25

Tommy how We had to talk about

31:27

about What an amazing. actor. That

31:29

movie, he was he was great. he in the

31:32

us I'll never I'll never forget it. know,

31:34

as you know, Tommy was the son

31:36

of a son of a stuntman. Right. And his

31:38

way around the business in a a

31:40

unusual way for a 15 15-year-old. Right. I

31:42

remember Tommy saying, hey, man. hey, man,

31:44

if we get we get tackled a break

31:46

a leg. will ship us out ship

31:49

us out else else will

31:51

be playing Pony tomorrow. boy tomorrow.

31:53

And so we quit. so the quit,

31:55

we quit the tackle

31:57

football game. That's not accurate,

31:59

but I would. have done is that he,

32:01

Pony Boy would be wearing a splint and

32:03

a the rest of the movie. the

32:05

That's what happened with the happened with

32:07

the bandage in the, uh, Now when Willard

32:09

cuts his face face and they stupid bandage

32:11

on it. I got stuck with

32:13

it the whole movie. it, the need

32:15

to talk about We need to talk about Shire

32:17

Oh, they change, I think. Oh,

32:20

they They change. Literally, he's he's got

32:22

no eyebrows in one scene, and

32:24

then he's got eyebrows that are

32:26

bigger than yours than yours and mine was,

32:28

you know, we Well, that was, you worked

32:30

with her, but we had the

32:33

never worked with her, but we had the great did

32:35

the, who did the

32:37

costumes did the most of for

32:39

all, most of know, she's and,

32:41

Oscars or something. But she

32:43

doesn't care so much

32:45

about continuity. about was constantly, and

32:47

that was know, I had you

32:49

know, I had the costumes of the picture word,

32:52

a very ambitious part of

32:54

the movie to bring an artist

32:56

like that. But there were many,

32:58

you know, and you know, he didn't

33:00

of some of the people, but

33:02

there you can imagine. can imagine, There

33:04

were a lot of of people

33:06

people, one I I must

33:08

say that I, I

33:10

found Adam Adam really

33:12

spectacular collaborator. mean, you

33:14

know, and I, you know, there are some

33:17

who are are really, he was

33:19

super intelligent, like one bait

33:21

he is. really a person

33:23

and he gets great performances with

33:25

this intelligence. with this Some of them

33:27

are Some of them are talented talented

33:30

magic, you know. you know,

33:32

Duval like that, that. has a rule where

33:34

he doesn't want to do more than

33:36

two takes. more than two have to, I

33:38

begged him for the third take where

33:40

he tells take where he that his son

33:42

is Brando that I always think, what would

33:44

happen? If you had, if

33:46

you had if you had Bobby Duval scene scene?

33:48

with the one Beatty, Warren Beatty wants

33:51

to do to do 50 tapes and wants

33:53

to take to take two. What is your

33:55

philosophy on that? on that? Do you think

33:57

think there's a perfect amount. amount?

34:00

mean, obviously the perfect take is the take

34:02

that you respond to, is but the take things

34:04

you respond lots of rules. Spielberg

34:06

has a very good really, has a very

34:08

the first take. prints

34:10

actor actually does actor actually does

34:12

of a certain electricity.

34:15

I think he's right. certain

34:17

electricity I think he's right I you know,

34:19

there's potato who has has

34:21

incredible intelligence and

34:24

talent. talent got both. both

34:26

But so does but so does Adam

34:28

He has a he has a tremendously

34:30

talented guy, but he's also a

34:32

very very intelligent person. I to

34:35

him, Adam, would to him, me a would

34:37

you do me a favor?

34:39

Would you look at the 22

34:41

takes we have of this? We

34:43

We a a lot of some one

34:45

or a scene where a camera does does a

34:47

six-page in one one tape? Yep. And would you

34:49

you look at all of

34:51

them and tell me tell think

34:53

are the best ones? are the he

34:55

you know? And he loved, he loved way. that way.

34:57

He said, you know, he things and he

34:59

said, I feel embarrassed I'm

35:01

suggesting changes to you. changes to you. I

35:03

said, don't be a help to me. That's a

35:05

help to me. movie was made.

35:07

made in a a very, all

35:10

the actors collaborate, I mean, what's

35:12

your name? Aubrey Plaza, is a Yeah,

35:14

she's a she's great. and she's a

35:16

character, and wonderful and, She know,

35:18

she could be sexy and funny

35:20

at the same time. said, I tell

35:22

said, she you, she promised me that

35:24

she would die and have people people laughing.

35:27

I said, I'll take it. That

35:29

sounds sounds like Aubrey. Yeah, she's

35:31

wonderful. Was there any? there any Atlas

35:33

Shrugged, right? right? Mass

35:36

World Builders. There's a a little

35:38

bit of of Atlas Shug Sure. I

35:40

sure. I mean, how can

35:42

you. not have it in it

35:44

in a vision like that where there's

35:46

this... You You know, this, what's

35:48

his name? name, Howard Waugh, no, John

35:50

Galt. John Galt, yeah. Yeah, the guy

35:53

the guy fountainhead is Howard Wirt.

35:55

That was that was directed by

35:57

King V. Dorr. So thing

35:59

is that. Any movie I have loved

36:01

in my life and I'm old. old,

36:03

I put put something of the

36:05

movie in Megalapolis. can I could show

36:07

you things that come from

36:09

every movie that I loved as as

36:12

a kid. the including

36:14

the first, which was the shape

36:16

of things to come but H.G. Wells. By the

36:18

by the way, I loved when

36:20

the statues, what you thought were statues.

36:22

statues. were grown and be real. That was

36:24

real. That was a

36:26

really great visual Well, Well,

36:28

that comes from an idea

36:30

of the famous Indian

36:32

chief who went to Paris

36:35

to Paris of years ago ago

36:37

debated morality with some Frenchmen.

36:39

And the Indian chief, finally, the the

36:41

Frenchmen said, but you have no

36:43

ideals, your ideals changed. And the Indian

36:45

well, you have ideals, have

36:47

but you but you don't adhere

36:50

to them. And And that's what

36:52

gave me the idea that

36:54

we have wonderful ideas of justice

36:56

of justice and wisdom and all these things,

36:58

but we make statues them, but we

37:00

don't incorporate them in our lives.

37:02

in We a statue of justice

37:05

she just weeps. because

37:07

no one listens to her,

37:09

to her and that's what shot that

37:12

stuff. shot that stuff. That was all, that

37:14

was all live action with all live action you

37:16

know, they were because, you

37:18

know, they were actors make look.

37:20

like big statues, so so citron that he that

37:22

he was driving it was like to hold

37:24

in your hand like that. that. Okay I

37:26

I wanted to ask you about the

37:28

the because the first time I ever

37:30

saw a citron was at Martin

37:32

Sheen's house. Martin Sheen's he arrived

37:34

back from the Philippines. from apocalypse

37:37

now Is there a a connection that

37:39

I'm missing? Well, I I always loved

37:41

that car I had a a limousine,

37:43

I probably said. said that

37:46

bring them home. them home.

37:48

I always always Citron is a car.

37:50

I would drive it a New I when

37:52

I would drive it in New York

37:54

when I was making people looked like

37:56

it was a, you know, you know, that they've

37:58

never seen a car like that, but on the... the other

38:00

hand you could fly today if you

38:02

could fly in a concord which you

38:05

can't do yeah people would look at

38:07

that like that's a car the few

38:09

a lot of great stuff in the

38:12

past looks like the future yes from

38:14

being one you know the story that

38:16

the situation that is in the picture

38:19

of megalopolis was the same limousine that

38:21

shot of kind of the gall was

38:23

shot in And they got the tire,

38:26

but they weren't able to kill him

38:28

because the car runs on three tires

38:30

because it has that hydraulic suspension. Then

38:33

he got away. That actual Citron? Yeah,

38:35

that's in fact, they made a movie

38:37

about that call. I forget the name,

38:39

but it's the story of how they

38:42

tried to assassinate the gall, but they

38:44

couldn't get him because he was in

38:46

this amazing car that drove on three.

38:49

In other words, it's the only car

38:51

that can drive away on three tires.

38:53

Three wheels. Tell me what's what's next

38:56

and by the way I love that

38:58

I'm asking you this. You're how old

39:00

are you Francis? I'm 85. 85. Exactly

39:03

my father's age. I love it. I

39:05

love it. Is your father living? Still

39:07

live and looks like you. You look

39:10

great by the way. You look really

39:12

really well to me. Well I lost

39:14

a lot of weight. I was always

39:17

overweight as you probably remember me and

39:19

throughout the years but I finally realized

39:21

that there's not a lot of 300

39:24

pound 85-year-old guys walking around so I...

39:26

I went to Duke Fitness and I

39:28

lost about 60 pounds. Does that mean

39:30

no more pasta dinner, you're not cooking

39:33

every Friday night for rap parties? Well

39:35

I don't make that time and I

39:37

make much more healthy. I still cook

39:40

well but I can cook vegetables very

39:42

well. I can make pasta but I

39:44

can't eat it. I don't even, I

39:47

don't drink. I just drink a little

39:49

wine once a week. Those are all

39:51

calories. Yeah. There are only two vices

39:54

that you can do all you want

39:56

without any payback. I call them vices.

39:58

Two sources of

40:01

pleasure. pleasure. One is learning and

40:03

the other is And the other is music,

40:05

if you don't listen to it too too So

40:07

I do a lot of reading of I do a

40:09

lot I do a lot of listening

40:11

to music. And are you

40:13

writing? Yeah, no, I I do. I'm I'm making, I

40:15

would like them. you I always say

40:17

this. say to make a movie that would

40:19

be fun. that would be fun. So I

40:22

have a project that's somewhat

40:24

based on based on a. I I want

40:26

to make to make a that uses

40:28

dance a lot to tell

40:30

the story. I directed the story. I

40:32

I was young and had made

40:34

the I was Everyone offered me. Godfather,

40:36

everyone offered me plays.

40:38

to want to do it all, so or I

40:41

once directed a to do it all.

40:43

So I once Coward called of Lives.

40:45

called Private of course. Yeah, of course.

40:47

great, great, great, great, great a

40:49

great great play, and I and

40:51

I it. And I did

40:53

a very unusual version of

40:55

it. I used a lot

40:57

of his wonderful songs. lot of

40:59

his wonderful songs and a style

41:02

of that type of. that type

41:04

of a movie I want to I

41:06

want to make now that would be a

41:08

sort of musical but they

41:10

used a lot that use a lot

41:12

of dance of would be very be very

41:14

I like those great movies

41:17

that Irene Dunn and Dunn and

41:19

to make like the

41:21

awful truth make like The Awful Truth or

41:23

My so -called Wife or the

41:25

so-called, or even bringing know

41:27

that you know. Those ones,

41:29

I love to love to do that. Then

41:31

I I have a big project that

41:33

is is unusual because I want to

41:35

do it live. live. In in other

41:37

words, I want to do a to do

41:39

a big, long, ambitious movie.

41:42

with an with an interesting theme, but I

41:44

want to do it life as a Did you

41:46

ever you Do read the book I wrote called Life

41:48

Center Manus Technics? No, I haven't, but I'll go go

41:50

get it for sure. I'll send, I it. I

41:52

want to sign it for you. When I

41:54

go home for Christmas, I'll sign it

41:56

to you and it to will. and Anahid will

41:59

bug Anahid. I is still practice, no

42:01

director's ever done it, way. I make films, I'm

42:03

her since I was it on years

42:05

old. since I was I'll sign Yeah, I'll

42:07

you. You'll like it, it's

42:09

got a good section on on acting

42:12

and many things many things we'll find

42:14

interesting. So that's what I what I

42:16

want to do. I may have a new practice,

42:18

may have a new practice, no it, but

42:20

ever done it, but when I make

42:22

films it I'm the end in the end credits,

42:24

I'd all the movies I'd like to

42:26

make before I die. I die. So that

42:29

means what I do. do, they'll

42:31

be on on my pictures, didn't

42:33

get them. I didn't get Wow.

42:35

That's a good a good idea. I

42:37

wish you another you another 86

42:39

years, And I I hope we get get-

42:41

you're Well, so kind. And I

42:43

wish that to you. to you. you are

42:45

you now about Roman's age, age? 60. Yeah, 60.

42:47

think Roman and I are almost

42:49

the exact same age, right? Well,

42:51

that's beautiful. same age, right? Well, well, you

42:53

knew Gio, didn't you? Of course,

42:55

I have, of course. course, Gio

42:58

knew Gio. Gio was alive yeah. Well Well, Gio

43:00

would be 60. of And was course,

43:02

she is his daughter but she never, she daughter,

43:04

but she a she she said, I as

43:06

a little girl. to I never

43:08

got to see him. I never

43:10

even got to see him she she

43:12

said. so sweet. That's so so sweet. she has

43:14

his picture on the camera. she has his

43:16

picture on the camera. Oh, that's

43:18

the best. Well, Francis, thank you

43:20

so much. Thank you, luck to Wonderful your

43:22

to you and your family. And

43:24

I hope you you in person someday

43:26

soon. Yeah, way overdue, for sure. Thanks

43:28

and congrats on Megalopolis and everything

43:30

that's on Thank you, thanks you,

43:32

Rob. Thanks, buddy. Thank you.

43:34

everything that's upcoming. Thank you. Thanks,

43:36

buddy. Thank you. Bye-bye. I have

43:39

all the I have

43:41

all the right

43:43

now. have all the got

43:45

a lot of feels. now. I've got a

43:47

lot of feels. You know that

43:50

thing You know that thing like,

43:52

when someone's in your in your life a

43:54

certain age. age. And

43:56

there's someone like like

43:59

Francis? You kind of

44:01

of get frozen in amber in

44:03

that in that relationship. And

44:05

so, you know, and so a lot

44:07

of movies, You know, lot I've made a

44:09

lot of movies, made a lot of TV shows. but

44:12

I still feel when I'm

44:14

talking to Francis, like I'm the

44:16

17 17-year-old, doing his first movie. his

44:18

first I felt that just

44:21

now. that just you found

44:23

the interview wanting, the interview

44:25

I beg your forgiveness. your

44:27

But that was was amazing.

44:29

So thanks for listening.

44:31

There's more to come

44:33

here on, with me, Robbie Lu.

44:35

with me, listening to Literally

44:37

with Rob been listening to

44:39

literally me, Sean Doherty, produced by

44:42

from with help

44:44

from Sarah Bogar, and research by by

44:46

Grau. Engineering and and mixing

44:48

by Joanna Samuel. Our executive

44:50

producers are Rob Lowe are

44:52

Rob Lo for Low Profile, Adam Leo

44:54

Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for and

44:56

and for Stitcher. Booking

44:58

by booking by Music by

45:01

Devin Bryant. Special

45:03

thanks to Hidden Hidden City Thanks

45:05

for listening. We'll see you next time. see

45:07

you next time. On Literally. She

45:25

said, get out chat room and

45:27

clean mine. Glad. Stretch. Villafine's so

45:30

fresh. The Glad Girl Group coming

45:32

at you girl a coming

45:34

at you jam. That was That

45:36

was Flegs, drawstring trash bags, featuring Pinesall

45:39

And that's better than

45:41

all good better than all good.

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